Episode 36: The Osage Nation Serial Murders that legitimized the FBI

1
00:00:20,600 --> 00:00:22,100
Everybody in serial killer
country.

2
00:00:22,100 --> 00:00:24,600
My name is Brittany.
Ransom, my name is Brian Joyner.

3
00:00:24,700 --> 00:00:27,600
And this is when Killers get
caught a podcast of a deep dives

4
00:00:27,600 --> 00:00:29,300
into the lives.
And psyches of the Killer's, we

5
00:00:29,300 --> 00:00:30,900
love to learn about Out each
week.

6
00:00:30,900 --> 00:00:33,300
Brian, I will find a True Crime
Story that resonated with us.

7
00:00:33,600 --> 00:00:36,200
Then I'll discuss one well-known
or lesser known killer, and go

8
00:00:36,200 --> 00:00:38,600
deep into their childhood lives
methodology.

9
00:00:38,600 --> 00:00:42,300
And most importantly how they
got caught and then we'll get a

10
00:00:42,300 --> 00:00:43,700
little spooky.
We'll learn something about

11
00:00:43,700 --> 00:00:46,000
Cryptids or the supernatural
with Brian.

12
00:00:46,100 --> 00:00:48,800
Yeah.
Before we start, I just want to

13
00:00:48,800 --> 00:00:51,300
remind you all that our patreon
is live.

14
00:00:51,400 --> 00:00:53,900
There are four tiers from five
to fifty dollars.

15
00:00:53,900 --> 00:00:58,000
That offer you loads of fun
things like a special extra

16
00:00:58,000 --> 00:00:59,900
podcast where Brian and I
discussed.

17
00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:05,700
Spear see, theories, or you
could even have a Groupon to

18
00:01:05,700 --> 00:01:08,100
chat.
But not one on one, but you get

19
00:01:08,100 --> 00:01:10,800
to talk to us.
Ask us any questions you want.

20
00:01:10,800 --> 00:01:12,400
Its private.
It's on the Discord.

21
00:01:12,400 --> 00:01:15,800
It's just a fun.
You know, ask us anything kind

22
00:01:15,800 --> 00:01:18,100
of thing that you can do every
month.

23
00:01:18,100 --> 00:01:20,800
Yeah, if you're interested in
March, our website is

24
00:01:20,800 --> 00:01:25,100
www.pevs.com and that's where
you can find links to pretty

25
00:01:25,100 --> 00:01:28,600
much everything we do.
So, starting out this week in

26
00:01:28,600 --> 00:01:31,900
True Crime, I I have been
following a case.

27
00:01:34,100 --> 00:01:38,600
I'm just the, the headline in
itself is just interesting but

28
00:01:38,600 --> 00:01:41,600
I'm telling you, is that a 17
year old boy has been charged

29
00:01:41,600 --> 00:01:43,700
with the murder of his twin
sister.

30
00:01:43,700 --> 00:01:46,900
His name is Benjamin Elliot and
her name is Megan.

31
00:01:47,300 --> 00:01:50,900
He stabbed her in the next
several times on Wednesday of

32
00:01:50,900 --> 00:01:54,300
this week.
Oh, now Benjamin claims that he

33
00:01:54,300 --> 00:01:57,900
woke up between 2:30 and three
in the morning, standing in his

34
00:01:57,900 --> 00:02:02,200
sister's bedroom with a knife
and that he didn't realize he

35
00:02:02,200 --> 00:02:04,000
was in there.
In fact, he thought he I was

36
00:02:04,000 --> 00:02:08,800
dreaming, he removed the knife
and sat down beside her and

37
00:02:08,800 --> 00:02:12,700
called 911 according to claims,
he's meeting Court.

38
00:02:13,300 --> 00:02:16,000
Megan Elliott was pronounced
dead at the scene.

39
00:02:16,400 --> 00:02:20,500
The 911 operator and instructed
Benjamin on how to perform CPR,

40
00:02:20,800 --> 00:02:23,300
which he was in the process of
doing when the deputies arrived

41
00:02:23,300 --> 00:02:27,400
at his house.
Mmm, Moments after the call, the

42
00:02:27,400 --> 00:02:31,600
parents woke up.
There's audio of them screaming

43
00:02:32,400 --> 00:02:34,700
after discovering that their
daughter was dead.

44
00:02:35,400 --> 00:02:38,700
And so now, this is popping up
in a bunch of my True Crime

45
00:02:38,700 --> 00:02:41,600
groups that I'm a member of
them, Facebook and other forums

46
00:02:41,900 --> 00:02:44,400
with people.
I'll just going, do we really

47
00:02:44,400 --> 00:02:50,600
think that he was sleepwalking?
Hey, there are cases where, you

48
00:02:50,600 --> 00:02:53,800
know, the sleepwalking is a, you
know, it plays a big role in it,

49
00:02:54,000 --> 00:02:57,300
so There have been some news
reports that said though that

50
00:02:57,300 --> 00:03:00,100
the parents initially didn't
want to allow the police in

51
00:03:00,500 --> 00:03:04,800
like, this is still something
that is in the process of

52
00:03:04,800 --> 00:03:09,400
happening on interesting.
So we shall see what's going on.

53
00:03:09,500 --> 00:03:11,900
Yeah.
It's just very interesting and I

54
00:03:11,908 --> 00:03:15,600
mean, has he have you reported
history of him at sleepwalking

55
00:03:15,600 --> 00:03:18,600
or anything like that?
Like in an appearance on winning

56
00:03:18,600 --> 00:03:21,100
the police and I mean, I would
like it depends what time in the

57
00:03:21,108 --> 00:03:23,100
morning that he called the cops
and the cops came.

58
00:03:23,300 --> 00:03:27,000
So he's saying that he
Discovered that he was awake

59
00:03:27,000 --> 00:03:29,800
like he woke up and was like, oh
no, this isn't a dream at about

60
00:03:29,800 --> 00:03:36,600
3 a.m. but the police only got
there at 4:45 which is a big gap

61
00:03:36,600 --> 00:03:41,400
from when he says he realized
that he did it and when they

62
00:03:41,400 --> 00:03:46,400
called hmm they had they detain
him.

63
00:03:46,400 --> 00:03:48,900
You know there's been now at
this point like an initial like

64
00:03:48,900 --> 00:03:53,000
hearing and what.
Yeah, yeah, but yeah.

65
00:03:54,200 --> 00:03:57,900
They, they have the knife, they
have everything, they had to get

66
00:03:57,900 --> 00:04:00,300
search, warrants to go, look in
the house.

67
00:04:03,400 --> 00:04:04,700
It's just it's really
interesting.

68
00:04:04,700 --> 00:04:07,700
This happened in Georgia by the
way, of course Georgia.

69
00:04:08,900 --> 00:04:11,300
Mmm.
So yeah.

70
00:04:12,600 --> 00:04:15,000
The police are officially
charging him with murder

71
00:04:15,300 --> 00:04:16,800
regardless.
As to what the family said,

72
00:04:16,800 --> 00:04:19,300
they're like listen the y'all
can work that out in court with

73
00:04:19,300 --> 00:04:22,900
the lawyers but this is a clear
cut and dry murder case.

74
00:04:23,600 --> 00:04:27,600
So he's already been like
arraigned on the base charges

75
00:04:29,900 --> 00:04:32,000
His bond set at 100 thousand
dollars.

76
00:04:32,100 --> 00:04:33,900
Oh, wow.
Yeah.

77
00:04:36,000 --> 00:04:37,600
But like, we don't know anything
about that.

78
00:04:37,600 --> 00:04:40,000
So I'm guessing that's going to
come up as a proper

79
00:04:40,000 --> 00:04:42,500
investigation happens, right?
Because you have a history of

80
00:04:42,500 --> 00:04:44,400
sleepwalking, does he do strange
things?

81
00:04:44,400 --> 00:04:47,500
I mean some Sleepwalkers just
kind of walk through the house.

82
00:04:48,100 --> 00:04:49,500
There's actually a lady I fell
in Tick.

83
00:04:49,500 --> 00:04:54,400
Tock she's a delightful woman
but like her husband set up what

84
00:04:54,400 --> 00:04:58,500
it's like Sabrina spooky and
she's one of those Jet Dad jokes

85
00:04:58,500 --> 00:05:01,100
and all the freaking puns I
don't remember that she like

86
00:05:01,100 --> 00:05:03,100
she's a writer.
Okay not there's another one

87
00:05:03,100 --> 00:05:05,200
that just sleepwalking through
the blonde lady.

88
00:05:05,200 --> 00:05:07,900
She said Herbal.
She also writes like spooky

89
00:05:08,300 --> 00:05:13,800
spooky books, too, but her They
just set up cameras all over the

90
00:05:13,800 --> 00:05:18,300
house and there have been times
that her husband has been like

91
00:05:18,900 --> 00:05:20,700
outside.
Like you need to come inside the

92
00:05:20,700 --> 00:05:26,100
house and she's just like, but
it's knowing some paranormal.

93
00:05:26,200 --> 00:05:29,800
Only one hundred percent of
sleep activity stuff.

94
00:05:29,900 --> 00:05:33,400
And she has what's it's more
than just sleepwalking.

95
00:05:33,600 --> 00:05:38,600
It's another issue.
Where There's a complete

96
00:05:38,600 --> 00:05:43,700
disconnect with her brain and
rest, but yeah, she's cool,

97
00:05:43,700 --> 00:05:47,100
she's cool and he's very funny.
I would like she just will post

98
00:05:47,100 --> 00:05:51,300
clips of her W like of the the
footage, like the cameras in her

99
00:05:51,300 --> 00:05:54,000
house or just walking back and
forth around the house like all

100
00:05:54,000 --> 00:05:56,600
sorts of interesting stuff.
So there's things like that, but

101
00:05:56,600 --> 00:05:58,900
that's more than just your
basic, right?

102
00:05:58,900 --> 00:06:01,700
Right.
Sleepwalking 7.

103
00:06:01,700 --> 00:06:04,000
What he did?
Well what he did if he was,

104
00:06:04,000 --> 00:06:07,400
sleepwalking is more than your
basic sleepwalking, right?

105
00:06:09,600 --> 00:06:13,300
So like if he doesn't have any
history of this, then it's just

106
00:06:13,300 --> 00:06:16,800
like okay then was right was it
something that was that came up

107
00:06:16,800 --> 00:06:18,700
in the hour?
It took you to call the police?

108
00:06:18,700 --> 00:06:21,800
Yeah.
Like did you just make this up?

109
00:06:23,600 --> 00:06:26,700
But yeah, I'm looking at right
here to give the kid the benefit

110
00:06:26,700 --> 00:06:31,000
of the doubt for right now and
then he killed his sister.

111
00:06:31,000 --> 00:06:34,000
I mean, okay, do it by accident,
he probably feels terrible.

112
00:06:34,000 --> 00:06:38,100
If it was accident, I would
assume you felt terrible but uh,

113
00:06:40,400 --> 00:06:46,900
So anyway onto my thing.
So this one's a little bit

114
00:06:46,900 --> 00:06:51,400
funnier than Britney's.
So apparently the streets of New

115
00:06:51,400 --> 00:06:55,100
York.
Apparently just Queens is being

116
00:06:55,100 --> 00:07:03,500
terrorized by a rooster A
rooster.

117
00:07:03,700 --> 00:07:07,400
Rooster, it's very Rising.
I was looking up the lady with

118
00:07:07,400 --> 00:07:10,000
the sleepwalking and then my
brain just connected.

119
00:07:10,200 --> 00:07:13,800
Rooster.
Yeah, yeah.

120
00:07:13,800 --> 00:07:19,500
So apparently, there's a, these
are rooster apparently well

121
00:07:19,500 --> 00:07:25,700
known in the neighborhood as
well and it just is attacking

122
00:07:25,700 --> 00:07:30,400
people.
One person says that, I was

123
00:07:30,400 --> 00:07:34,800
just, you know, usually just
casually walking, you know, the

124
00:07:34,800 --> 00:07:39,100
hedge, my bus to go to work.
When I felt a peck, oh my left

125
00:07:39,100 --> 00:07:42,800
hand.
And if that this thing kept

126
00:07:42,800 --> 00:07:49,700
coming is so vicious, almost
evil is like Magpie levels of of

127
00:07:49,700 --> 00:07:52,100
bird violent.
Blood was gushing.

128
00:07:52,200 --> 00:07:54,400
Oh my God.
I was trying to apply pressure

129
00:07:54,400 --> 00:07:56,500
to it and it kept charging at
v-0.

130
00:07:58,500 --> 00:08:01,700
Oh man.
Okay.

131
00:08:02,800 --> 00:08:05,800
And like I said, the Rusev's
does have a reputation in the

132
00:08:05,800 --> 00:08:09,400
neighborhood and people who live
in the area told me if you see

133
00:08:10,200 --> 00:08:15,100
that they've been terrorized for
years by this rooster.

134
00:08:15,400 --> 00:08:19,600
So I'm not sure if this is just
a random wild rooster to has

135
00:08:19,600 --> 00:08:24,600
just set up shop in Queens, but
does this belong to somebody

136
00:08:24,600 --> 00:08:27,700
because there's lots of people.
Yeah, up there who have chickens

137
00:08:27,700 --> 00:08:30,500
and roosters out in their yards
because they like eating the

138
00:08:30,500 --> 00:08:34,299
eggs.
It's very, you know, gentrified

139
00:08:34,299 --> 00:08:36,900
neighborhood.
Ask this is true.

140
00:08:37,200 --> 00:08:40,700
It could be just like a blow,
the country white people show

141
00:08:41,000 --> 00:08:43,200
called a chickens.
I was going to say is just that

142
00:08:43,200 --> 00:08:45,300
a bad thing.
I mean, fresh eggs.

143
00:08:46,100 --> 00:08:52,000
I was going to say, Escape
cockfight, horrible plan was so

144
00:08:52,000 --> 00:08:53,600
violent.
Yes, he's like I'm ready to

145
00:08:53,608 --> 00:08:54,900
fight.
Come on now.

146
00:08:54,900 --> 00:08:57,000
Where's my other was my
opponents?

147
00:08:57,900 --> 00:09:00,800
And this person is like, I
didn't sign up for this sir, and

148
00:09:00,800 --> 00:09:03,100
then I guess when the other
neighbors they were laughing

149
00:09:03,100 --> 00:09:05,000
about it, like, kids can ride
your scooters.

150
00:09:05,200 --> 00:09:07,500
You people can't walk in peace
without being attacked by.

151
00:09:09,100 --> 00:09:12,700
What is Rooster is Rooster is
terrorizing In neighborhoods and

152
00:09:12,700 --> 00:09:15,500
queens.
Someone go out there catches

153
00:09:15,500 --> 00:09:20,600
rooster and fry it up.
Wow, what if that's somebody's

154
00:09:20,600 --> 00:09:24,400
friend someone's violent friend
I need to talk to her friend.

155
00:09:25,000 --> 00:09:26,900
You can't talk to a rooster
family.

156
00:09:26,900 --> 00:09:29,000
That's what it wasn't.
You need to sit that Rusev

157
00:09:29,000 --> 00:09:31,500
jammed, talk to a cat.
They only understand spray

158
00:09:31,500 --> 00:09:32,600
bottles.
This is true.

159
00:09:34,000 --> 00:09:36,000
This is true.
But yeah, no, you sit down to

160
00:09:36,000 --> 00:09:38,700
this rooster down, tell them
like hey I heard you out there.

161
00:09:38,700 --> 00:09:42,100
Terrorizing everybody you need
to stop order going to Cook you?

162
00:09:43,300 --> 00:09:45,500
You're gonna get it?
That's that's this is we're

163
00:09:45,500 --> 00:09:46,500
right?
This is funny.

164
00:09:48,000 --> 00:09:51,200
Look, I like to bring the levity
up in here.

165
00:09:51,200 --> 00:09:56,500
You always ring the bell today,
I'm bringing the conspiracy but

166
00:09:56,500 --> 00:10:00,800
not in the way that we handle
like conspiracy Crypt.

167
00:10:00,800 --> 00:10:02,800
This is more of a well.
So,

168
00:10:17,000 --> 00:10:18,800
Sometimes I get to looking into
things.

169
00:10:18,800 --> 00:10:20,500
Uh-huh.
And you fall down into a rabbit

170
00:10:20,500 --> 00:10:22,500
hole and you can't get out of
the rabbit hole until you've

171
00:10:22,500 --> 00:10:24,700
read everything.
You can about the subject.

172
00:10:24,700 --> 00:10:26,700
I don't know if other people
feel that way, but that's how I

173
00:10:26,700 --> 00:10:28,800
am.
And so, what started me looking

174
00:10:28,800 --> 00:10:31,100
into this was that I was just
looking up the FBI.

175
00:10:31,400 --> 00:10:33,900
And so, I was tracking back
backwards to, like, when I

176
00:10:33,900 --> 00:10:37,100
started, you know, and, like J
Edgar Hoover, and all that

177
00:10:37,100 --> 00:10:40,000
stuff.
And imagine my surprise, when

178
00:10:40,000 --> 00:10:44,300
one of the FBI's first major
cases involved a massive

179
00:10:44,300 --> 00:10:47,900
conspiracy, where members of the
Osage Nation were murdered

180
00:10:48,000 --> 00:10:51,500
shortly after becoming the
richest people in the world.

181
00:10:51,800 --> 00:10:55,300
After oil was discovered,
beneath their reservation

182
00:10:55,900 --> 00:10:59,500
imagine that it's called the
reign of terror and it lasted

183
00:10:59,500 --> 00:11:04,600
from 1921 to 1926.
Now, according to Osage Nation

184
00:11:04,600 --> 00:11:07,700
history, there are still roughly
60 unsolved murders from this

185
00:11:07,700 --> 00:11:11,300
time, but ultimately the F be
able the FBI was able to solve

186
00:11:11,300 --> 00:11:15,300
all about 24 of them.
Not only is this story, just

187
00:11:15,300 --> 00:11:16,600
incredible.
General.

188
00:11:17,600 --> 00:11:20,300
There's actually a movie that's
supposed to come out about it in

189
00:11:20,300 --> 00:11:22,200
like the next couple of months.
Oh, nice.

190
00:11:22,200 --> 00:11:24,700
It's a Scorsese film to even
better.

191
00:11:24,700 --> 00:11:27,700
So I figured before any of us go
and see this movie.

192
00:11:27,900 --> 00:11:31,100
I'm going to feel everybody on
what happened in dosage, Hills

193
00:11:31,100 --> 00:11:36,000
in Oklahoma, because, boy, was
it, a wild ride and I've let

194
00:11:36,000 --> 00:11:38,200
everybody know listening.
I've been hyping this up to

195
00:11:38,200 --> 00:11:40,300
Brian.
Now, for a little while, I was

196
00:11:40,300 --> 00:11:43,100
like, oh, you don't even
understand it's going to blow

197
00:11:43,100 --> 00:11:45,400
your mind, I'm having a
consistent.

198
00:11:45,900 --> 00:11:47,900
But before we even start
anything, let's learn a little

199
00:11:47,900 --> 00:11:52,100
bit about the Osage Nation.
So they are an indigenous tribe

200
00:11:52,300 --> 00:11:55,100
in America who live in Oklahoma
for a pretty long time.

201
00:11:55,100 --> 00:11:58,000
But we have found remnants of
the tribe as far east as the

202
00:11:58,000 --> 00:12:01,800
Ohio River and the Mississippi
River dating back to 700 BC.

203
00:12:02,500 --> 00:12:05,400
Their name is a French version
of their indigenous name which

204
00:12:05,400 --> 00:12:10,000
is was that shush which means
mid Waters and the Dougie

205
00:12:10,000 --> 00:12:13,600
han-soo language.
They migrated West after the

206
00:12:13,600 --> 00:12:16,300
17th century and archaeologists
have found evidence That there

207
00:12:16,300 --> 00:12:17,800
were three different routes that
they took.

208
00:12:17,800 --> 00:12:20,900
During this immigration, period,
one group, followed the

209
00:12:20,900 --> 00:12:23,400
Missouri.
Osage River to Western Central

210
00:12:23,400 --> 00:12:27,100
Missouri and Eastern Oklahoma.
Another groom took that same

211
00:12:27,100 --> 00:12:31,100
river to West Central Missouri.
Then another cluster of about

212
00:12:31,100 --> 00:12:35,300
six different groups, followed
the only Ottawa River and Iowa,

213
00:12:35,300 --> 00:12:39,600
and they ended at the Osage
River, this happened because the

214
00:12:39,600 --> 00:12:42,400
Iroquois invaded, the Ohio
Valley, where they had been

215
00:12:42,400 --> 00:12:45,300
living.
And there were a lot of battles.

216
00:12:47,200 --> 00:12:53,600
And I have to explain this
because my family is linked to

217
00:12:53,600 --> 00:12:58,800
the Confederacy, it's referred
to as the Iroquois Confederacy.

218
00:12:58,900 --> 00:13:02,400
It's the initial name for the
five tribes, the name that we

219
00:13:02,400 --> 00:13:07,300
refer to is holding the shown a,
those tribes are Mohawk, Oneida,

220
00:13:07,400 --> 00:13:10,800
that's my family.
Onondaga Cayuga and Seneca later

221
00:13:10,800 --> 00:13:12,800
on.
There was another trial, another

222
00:13:12,800 --> 00:13:15,200
tribe that was added.
But at this time, there's only

223
00:13:15,200 --> 00:13:22,800
five So, when I say they were
invading, this was five

224
00:13:22,800 --> 00:13:25,900
different tribes, invading an
area.

225
00:13:26,400 --> 00:13:31,300
So I totally understand why the
Osage people just said, I am a,

226
00:13:31,300 --> 00:13:34,600
yeah, yeah.
Like, you know, I'm a head out,

227
00:13:34,700 --> 00:13:36,400
a SpongeBob style.
This is too much.

228
00:13:37,000 --> 00:13:38,800
I'm not you, and I didn't want
this, okay?

229
00:13:38,900 --> 00:13:41,800
Like they had a whole series of
bloody battles through Kentucky,

230
00:13:41,800 --> 00:13:43,500
Virginia.
Like they were just like, you

231
00:13:43,500 --> 00:13:46,500
know what, we got.
Good.

232
00:13:47,600 --> 00:13:51,900
So from the 1700s to the 1900s,
they were taking over territory.

233
00:13:51,900 --> 00:13:54,400
In the midwest, they were
raiding their Santa Fe New

234
00:13:54,400 --> 00:13:56,600
Mexico.
They explored Palos Verdes

235
00:13:56,600 --> 00:13:59,200
Peninsula on the coast of
California, just before the

236
00:13:59,200 --> 00:14:03,300
1800s, the largest group headed
up towards Oklahoma and Kansas,

237
00:14:03,700 --> 00:14:06,500
and there were hostilities
between the Osage Nation and the

238
00:14:06,508 --> 00:14:10,900
Cherokee Nation that in 1839,
the US government stepped in and

239
00:14:10,900 --> 00:14:13,900
forced all of the different
dosage bands of the tribe to

240
00:14:13,900 --> 00:14:18,100
leave Arkansas and Oklahoma. ah,
and they move them into Kansas,

241
00:14:18,400 --> 00:14:22,500
which is where the tribe had
agreed to settle in 1825 but

242
00:14:22,500 --> 00:14:29,200
like, you know, Part of that
time period was we conquer him?

243
00:14:31,100 --> 00:14:34,000
So, but the other issue was that
didn't last?

244
00:14:34,300 --> 00:14:37,400
Because even though they had
been forced into can't into

245
00:14:37,400 --> 00:14:42,400
Kansas, they got forced back
into Oklahoma and 1871, this was

246
00:14:42,400 --> 00:14:45,600
actually their third and most
terrible displacement, it was

247
00:14:45,600 --> 00:14:49,500
pretty traumatic for the tribe
and there are tombstones across

248
00:14:49,500 --> 00:14:52,100
the entire area that show that
the majority of the people who

249
00:14:52,100 --> 00:14:54,900
died during that third
transition.

250
00:14:55,100 --> 00:14:57,100
We're Young mothers and infants.
Wow.

251
00:14:57,100 --> 00:15:00,300
So it's pretty hard on the tribe
in general.

252
00:15:01,500 --> 00:15:06,600
Now, solidly in Oklahoma, they
settled in and then in 1894,

253
00:15:06,600 --> 00:15:10,500
large, quantities of oil, were
discovered underneath a large

254
00:15:10,500 --> 00:15:12,900
Prairie that was owned by the
tribe.

255
00:15:13,400 --> 00:15:17,800
The Osage - they negotiated with
the US and retained the rights

256
00:15:17,900 --> 00:15:22,400
for the minerals, under their
land. this was called the Osage

257
00:15:22,400 --> 00:15:26,100
allotment Act of 1906 and it
said that any subsurface

258
00:15:26,100 --> 00:15:29,700
minerals within the Osage Nation
reservation were held in a trust

259
00:15:29,700 --> 00:15:33,500
by the US government, but we're
still tribally owned and they

260
00:15:33,500 --> 00:15:37,900
were paid mineral lease
royalties to the tribe and this

261
00:15:37,900 --> 00:15:45,100
started out as like, Tribal
members is called Head rights

262
00:15:45,100 --> 00:15:48,300
actually but those people who
were a lot he's in the tribe and

263
00:15:48,300 --> 00:15:51,200
had that head rate would get
like $100 every couple months

264
00:15:52,000 --> 00:15:54,200
and then all of a sudden it was
a thousand dollars every couple

265
00:15:54,200 --> 00:15:59,800
months and then by the early
like the late like nineteen

266
00:15:59,800 --> 00:16:03,700
teens the tribe, I received
millions of dollars at this

267
00:16:03,700 --> 00:16:07,600
point so they were at that
moment, the richest people in

268
00:16:07,600 --> 00:16:09,600
the entire world.
Oh nice.

269
00:16:09,600 --> 00:16:11,000
Okay.
Well, some awesome.

270
00:16:12,800 --> 00:16:16,800
Unfortunately, this isn't the
only time that the the Osage

271
00:16:16,800 --> 00:16:18,600
tribe is going to have issues
with this.

272
00:16:19,100 --> 00:16:22,500
There's a lot of really jacked
up stuff that happens with that.

273
00:16:22,500 --> 00:16:25,100
The acts that were passed during
that time period.

274
00:16:25,300 --> 00:16:29,500
But also recently they sued the
US government for mismanagement

275
00:16:29,500 --> 00:16:33,800
of the trust Assets in the year
2000 and they settled for 380

276
00:16:33,800 --> 00:16:38,500
million dollars in 2011.
So it's been 100 Years of drama

277
00:16:38,500 --> 00:16:39,900
with this.
Yeah.

278
00:16:39,900 --> 00:16:41,800
But we are specifically talking
about the time period.

279
00:16:42,000 --> 00:16:46,200
It before the reign of terror,
so we're back in 1921.

280
00:16:46,600 --> 00:16:50,600
The US government is in all that
happy about how the Osage Nation

281
00:16:50,600 --> 00:16:54,000
is using their wealth.
We are a, we're very racist,

282
00:16:54,000 --> 00:16:56,700
National Nation.
Now, with a very racist past and

283
00:16:56,700 --> 00:16:58,800
there is nothing that makes
broke white folks, more upset

284
00:16:58,800 --> 00:17:02,000
and seeing brown people drive
rolls royces and building big

285
00:17:02,000 --> 00:17:05,900
old beautiful houses.
In fact, the Press was obsessed

286
00:17:05,900 --> 00:17:09,700
with stories of the rich
Redskins and they took delight

287
00:17:09,700 --> 00:17:14,500
and trying to cast the osich.
Tribe as Savage spendthrift,

288
00:17:14,500 --> 00:17:16,700
everybody wanted to know how
these people were spending their

289
00:17:16,700 --> 00:17:20,200
money.
So Congress, passes a law,

290
00:17:20,400 --> 00:17:23,800
requiring, any member of the
Osage Nation, who is at least

291
00:17:23,800 --> 00:17:28,600
half to be appointed a guardian
until they can prove that they

292
00:17:28,600 --> 00:17:32,300
are competent enough to spend
their own money.

293
00:17:32,300 --> 00:17:34,100
Excuse me.
Hmm.

294
00:17:36,800 --> 00:17:39,900
Now they, they, they set this up
originally going well, a lot of

295
00:17:39,900 --> 00:17:42,600
these people who are getting
this money, are minors their

296
00:17:42,600 --> 00:17:45,300
children.
Who are, you know, full-blood?

297
00:17:46,000 --> 00:17:48,200
This is just one of the ways
that the u.s. government has

298
00:17:48,200 --> 00:17:51,600
screwed indigenous people over
using blood Quantum, but that's

299
00:17:51,600 --> 00:17:53,300
another conversation for another
day.

300
00:17:55,400 --> 00:17:58,500
And the thing is, even if these
miners had Parents, it didn't

301
00:17:58,500 --> 00:17:59,800
matter.
The government was like, no, no.

302
00:17:59,800 --> 00:18:02,900
Everybody needs to have someone
to help them with their money.

303
00:18:03,000 --> 00:18:05,800
No, it down to thank you.
And this wasn't handled by the

304
00:18:05,800 --> 00:18:08,500
feds, but by local lawyers and
businessmen and it was

305
00:18:08,500 --> 00:18:13,800
completely taken advantage of,
in fact, So guys, tell you

306
00:18:13,800 --> 00:18:16,800
there's so much money here.
The Osage Nation began

307
00:18:16,800 --> 00:18:20,500
auctioning off development
rights to parts of their

308
00:18:20,500 --> 00:18:23,600
reservation for people who were
hunting for oil.

309
00:18:24,100 --> 00:18:26,100
And according to the
commissioner of Indian Affairs

310
00:18:26,100 --> 00:18:31,300
in 1924 alone, their revenue was
30 million dollars in 1920.

311
00:18:32,300 --> 00:18:34,800
That's about 400 million dollars
now.

312
00:18:35,000 --> 00:18:38,800
So, a family of four who were
all a lot, he's who had had

313
00:18:38,800 --> 00:18:41,600
right?
Could be collecting, roughly

314
00:18:41,600 --> 00:18:44,600
600,000.
U.s. dollars today just to

315
00:18:44,600 --> 00:18:47,800
exist.
Wow, there's a lot of money and

316
00:18:47,800 --> 00:18:51,000
that guardianship was very
corrupt.

317
00:18:54,800 --> 00:19:00,900
So this all really starts, the
reign of terror May 27th, 1921

318
00:19:01,700 --> 00:19:05,900
local Hunters, find a badly,
decomposed body of 33, year old

319
00:19:05,900 --> 00:19:08,700
and a brown in a Ravine and
Osage County.

320
00:19:09,300 --> 00:19:12,300
Anna was known to go on sprees
as her family called them where

321
00:19:12,300 --> 00:19:14,800
she got dancing and drinking
with her friends until dawn.

322
00:19:15,400 --> 00:19:18,200
Also reminding you, we are still
in the prohibition era.

323
00:19:18,400 --> 00:19:20,300
Mmm.
So there's a lot of bootleggers

324
00:19:20,300 --> 00:19:24,400
and a lot of crime happening.
She gone out on one of those

325
00:19:24,400 --> 00:19:28,400
fries on May 21st and her sister
Molly Burkhart hadn't heard from

326
00:19:28,400 --> 00:19:32,600
her by May 24th and she was
pretty alarmed there.

327
00:19:32,600 --> 00:19:37,200
They had a previous sister who
had died in 1918 and Molly

328
00:19:37,200 --> 00:19:39,500
wasn't entirely sure.
That one made sense, either

329
00:19:41,200 --> 00:19:44,900
Molly and her sisters and their
parents were all on something

330
00:19:44,900 --> 00:19:47,700
referred to as the Osage role,
which meant that they were

331
00:19:47,700 --> 00:19:50,900
registered tribal members and
that they were all allottees who

332
00:19:50,900 --> 00:19:53,900
had head rate.
This family all lived in his

333
00:19:54,000 --> 00:19:57,300
area called gray horse, which
was one of the reservations

334
00:19:57,300 --> 00:20:00,700
older settlements.
Also all the sisters were

335
00:20:00,700 --> 00:20:03,500
married to white man.
That's going to matter later on.

336
00:20:05,400 --> 00:20:08,000
Now the last time the Anna had
been seen was a luncheon on the

337
00:20:08,000 --> 00:20:12,000
21st that Molly had been the.
What do you call that when you

338
00:20:12,500 --> 00:20:15,400
have a party host?
Yeah, she was hosting a luncheon

339
00:20:15,900 --> 00:20:18,700
and I showed up drunk, she
caused a scene with pretty much

340
00:20:18,700 --> 00:20:22,700
everybody there.
Molly had to stop her sober up

341
00:20:22,700 --> 00:20:26,200
and Molly's husband's younger
brother, Brian spelt with a.

342
00:20:26,208 --> 00:20:29,900
Why said he dropped her off at
her house?

343
00:20:30,400 --> 00:20:34,600
Bryan, insisted that he had
dropped her off at like 5:00. 30

344
00:20:34,600 --> 00:20:38,400
in the afternoon before going to
see a show that was called

345
00:20:38,400 --> 00:20:42,400
bringing up father with another
man in town named William Hale,

346
00:20:42,400 --> 00:20:46,300
who was his uncle and also one
of the most powerful people in

347
00:20:46,300 --> 00:20:49,000
Osage County but we will also
talk about William a little

348
00:20:49,000 --> 00:20:52,200
more.
Now after three nights of not

349
00:20:52,200 --> 00:20:54,400
hearing from her sister Molly
slack.

350
00:20:54,500 --> 00:20:58,000
All right y'all, let's get this
going and she's like she sends

351
00:20:58,000 --> 00:20:59,700
people to go check on Anna's
house.

352
00:21:00,900 --> 00:21:04,200
Nobody's been there and as
servants or like she didn't come

353
00:21:04,200 --> 00:21:07,700
home.
That's also when they learned

354
00:21:07,700 --> 00:21:13,200
that another Resident in on the
tribe Charles Whitehorn had also

355
00:21:13,200 --> 00:21:19,000
vanished a week before, Anna.
So, a week after an has been

356
00:21:19,000 --> 00:21:21,700
gone.
Now, a different body is found

357
00:21:21,700 --> 00:21:25,500
on a hill, north of downtown
Pawhuska.

358
00:21:25,900 --> 00:21:30,500
It had two bullets in its head,
execution style, the body was so

359
00:21:30,500 --> 00:21:32,200
rotten, they couldn't identify
it.

360
00:21:32,500 --> 00:21:35,000
And the only way, they figured
out who it was was because the

361
00:21:35,000 --> 00:21:38,600
oil workers who found him
checked his pockets and

362
00:21:38,600 --> 00:21:42,400
discovered a letter that someone
had written to Charles Whitehorn

363
00:21:44,500 --> 00:21:50,300
Charles wife is white and
Cheyenne Indian when within 24

364
00:21:50,300 --> 00:21:53,900
hours, they also find Anna's
body in the mud in a ravine

365
00:21:54,100 --> 00:21:58,200
partially submerged bloated.
We didn't really do autopsies,

366
00:21:58,200 --> 00:22:01,800
then like we do now.
Instead what they had was called

367
00:22:01,800 --> 00:22:05,000
a Coroner's inquest a group of
people show up led by a justice

368
00:22:05,000 --> 00:22:08,800
of the peace and they have kind
of a conversation over the body

369
00:22:08,800 --> 00:22:10,700
at the location where they find
it.

370
00:22:11,200 --> 00:22:12,500
So they do this with Hannah
Brown.

371
00:22:13,800 --> 00:22:15,900
The reason why we had it like
this is because after the

372
00:22:15,900 --> 00:22:18,900
American Revolution Americans
were kind of not interested in

373
00:22:18,900 --> 00:22:22,400
cops citizens were afraid that
they would become a symbol of

374
00:22:22,400 --> 00:22:28,400
Oppression America, how funny.
Whoa.

375
00:22:28,400 --> 00:22:31,000
It's like history like repeats
itself or something.

376
00:22:31,600 --> 00:22:33,900
Yeah.
So these inquest were regular

377
00:22:33,900 --> 00:22:38,800
people from the town who were
doing, they were filling the Gap

378
00:22:38,800 --> 00:22:44,200
that cops would do today.
And to be fair, When these

379
00:22:44,200 --> 00:22:47,300
regular people found that an
injustice had been done, it

380
00:22:47,300 --> 00:22:51,500
usually got real violent so like
they would take their job, very

381
00:22:51,500 --> 00:22:52,800
seriously.
Okay.

382
00:22:52,800 --> 00:22:56,000
Cool.
And Anna's inquest, they

383
00:22:56,000 --> 00:22:59,200
realized they like put her body
on like a slab and they were

384
00:22:59,200 --> 00:23:01,300
just checking and stuff and they
were like, oh yeah, no.

385
00:23:01,500 --> 00:23:04,400
She got shot in the back of the
head.

386
00:23:04,600 --> 00:23:06,700
This definitely a murder.
Because originally when they

387
00:23:06,700 --> 00:23:09,100
first found her body, there was
like well when she just got

388
00:23:09,100 --> 00:23:13,700
drunk and like fell over in the
woods and like exposure, But

389
00:23:13,700 --> 00:23:15,100
there was definitely a bullet
hole.

390
00:23:17,100 --> 00:23:19,100
So the information about both
these murders.

391
00:23:19,100 --> 00:23:22,500
Now falls on the local sheriff
and Osage County.

392
00:23:22,700 --> 00:23:26,100
He's a 50 year old, former
Frontiersman named harf Reyes

393
00:23:26,500 --> 00:23:27,900
who took his job, pretty
seriously.

394
00:23:27,900 --> 00:23:30,500
But he also liked to get a
little money on the side from

395
00:23:30,500 --> 00:23:33,200
his favorite criminals.
Pretty much.

396
00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:35,900
If you were like a moonshine
Bootlegger, you knew that all

397
00:23:35,900 --> 00:23:38,200
you had to do was pay Harvard a
little booze and he'd let you

398
00:23:38,200 --> 00:23:41,300
out.
One harv learned about Anna.

399
00:23:41,300 --> 00:23:43,900
He was already knee-deep in
investigating Charles white

400
00:23:43,900 --> 00:23:46,500
horns, murder.
So, he was like, I need somebody

401
00:23:46,500 --> 00:23:49,200
else to focus on this, so he
passed it off to the town

402
00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:53,400
Marshal, the Marshall shows up,
and it's just like, okay.

403
00:23:53,800 --> 00:23:57,300
She was drinking at some point.
Somebody definitely shot her in

404
00:23:57,300 --> 00:23:59,700
the back of the head.
He did note that there were two

405
00:23:59,700 --> 00:24:03,200
sets of car tracks at the crime
scene that were not from the

406
00:24:03,200 --> 00:24:06,300
people who had showed up, but we
didn't know how to trace.

407
00:24:06,300 --> 00:24:11,100
The killer from just try to
tracks and At best, like the

408
00:24:11,100 --> 00:24:14,000
best area where there was
forensics, were like the major

409
00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:21,600
cities, your Philadelphia, your
DC, Houston La New York middle.

410
00:24:21,600 --> 00:24:24,900
Oklahoma didn't have really any
forensic knowledge at that

411
00:24:24,900 --> 00:24:27,600
point, they didn't even
photograph the crime scene back.

412
00:24:27,900 --> 00:24:28,900
Oh, come on.
Yeah.

413
00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:34,100
And even if they had, it was
already incredibly contaminated

414
00:24:34,100 --> 00:24:37,300
by roughly a dozen people.
So, I traipse through this true,

415
00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:41,900
this caused a bit of a media
frenzy, they recovered a bullet,

416
00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:45,700
from Charles white horns body.
And it was roughly the same size

417
00:24:46,100 --> 00:24:49,700
as the whole and Anna's.
Had they thought it was a 33.

418
00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:54,900
The theories are rampant.
They're like two Indians dying

419
00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:59,100
in the same week.
They're both wealthy ocid

420
00:24:59,100 --> 00:25:01,800
residence.
And so people are like, well is

421
00:25:01,800 --> 00:25:06,000
this like HH Holmes in Chicago?
Or is this just a coincidence?

422
00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:12,600
Because that was the only like
International serial type murder

423
00:25:12,600 --> 00:25:15,200
that we had any reference for at
the time, right?

424
00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:18,200
Which was HH Holmes at the end
of the 19th century.

425
00:25:19,100 --> 00:25:23,400
Some of the elders actually said
that, they felt like finding

426
00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:27,500
that oil under the reservation
was a curse on the Osage people

427
00:25:28,400 --> 00:25:32,900
and there was one quote from a
newspaper that said after the

428
00:25:32,900 --> 00:25:38,200
fat checks from the great white
father and I know My people will

429
00:25:38,200 --> 00:25:40,000
be happier.
Hmm.

430
00:25:40,100 --> 00:25:44,600
Yes, they did refer to kind of
how we say, like, Daddy Biden

431
00:25:44,600 --> 00:25:46,400
and we're being kind of
facetious.

432
00:25:47,300 --> 00:25:50,600
That's kind of how they talked
about checks from the government

433
00:25:50,600 --> 00:25:56,000
that chicks At that point.
Local police were just kind of

434
00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:58,800
ready to be done with Anna's
case, but Molly didn't wasn't

435
00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:01,400
having that.
She reached out to William hail

436
00:26:01,600 --> 00:26:03,100
rich, man.
Lot of land.

437
00:26:03,100 --> 00:26:05,700
That he purchased a lot of it
from the Osage people.

438
00:26:05,900 --> 00:26:09,000
He had worked his way up from
just being a poor cow boy to a

439
00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:12,100
man who now walked around town
in a bow tie and recited poetry

440
00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:15,000
like, he thought he was that
guy.

441
00:26:15,100 --> 00:26:16,400
He was this yet.
Okay.

442
00:26:16,400 --> 00:26:19,500
He even had a diamond-studded
pain from the Masonic Lodge so

443
00:26:19,500 --> 00:26:22,300
you know, yeah.
Those kind of connection, okay?

444
00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:27,000
Hale was also a reservation,
Deputy in Fairfax.

445
00:26:27,100 --> 00:26:30,400
Now, that was mainly an honorary
title, but a lot of the people

446
00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:32,400
in the Osage Nation, trusted
him.

447
00:26:32,800 --> 00:26:36,500
And so, when he talked to Molly,
he was just like, I got you, IMA

448
00:26:36,500 --> 00:26:41,200
get Justice for your sister.
There was a small hearing after

449
00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:44,100
this and they went over all the
details of the last day of

450
00:26:44,100 --> 00:26:46,700
Anna's life.
They interviewed everybody who

451
00:26:46,700 --> 00:26:50,300
had anything to do with her
servants, everybody, especially

452
00:26:50,500 --> 00:26:58,000
brianburkhardt His responses
were a little weird, but they

453
00:26:58,000 --> 00:27:00,400
really couldn't prove anything
from the fact that like, maybe,

454
00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:02,600
this guy was just a little
nervous on the stand.

455
00:27:02,600 --> 00:27:07,300
Mmm.
The other issue we came into

456
00:27:07,500 --> 00:27:11,100
when this discussion at this
hearing, was that, this area had

457
00:27:11,100 --> 00:27:15,100
a big issue with Outlaws because
of prohibition, and the Osa

458
00:27:15,100 --> 00:27:17,700
chills were really nice place to
hide if you were on the run

459
00:27:17,700 --> 00:27:19,400
because it was big, beautiful
Wilderness.

460
00:27:20,400 --> 00:27:23,900
The other Theory though, was
maybe it was somebody on the

461
00:27:23,900 --> 00:27:27,400
reservation and that made sense
because the only people who

462
00:27:27,400 --> 00:27:31,600
would know, all of Anna's
patterns, were people who knew

463
00:27:31,600 --> 00:27:34,700
her Molly was suspicious of
Anna's.

464
00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:39,400
Urban Oda Brown and when he was
questioned after Anna's death,

465
00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:43,900
he sobbed and put on a total
show and everybody was like,

466
00:27:43,900 --> 00:27:49,300
yeah, he's lying.
It also didn't help that.

467
00:27:49,300 --> 00:27:52,900
After Anna's death Brown, got a
lawyer and tried to get her

468
00:27:52,900 --> 00:27:57,100
share of the Osage allotment,
but before, after they had

469
00:27:57,100 --> 00:28:00,800
gotten divorced, and I had
changed her will so that all of

470
00:28:00,800 --> 00:28:03,000
her money will go back to her
mom.

471
00:28:03,100 --> 00:28:04,900
Lizzie.
Okay, cool.

472
00:28:05,100 --> 00:28:11,000
Aw So Brown didn't have any
legal right to get that money

473
00:28:11,300 --> 00:28:15,400
and at this point, the only way
you could get in a lot meant was

474
00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:18,000
either through an inheritance or
a will.

475
00:28:18,900 --> 00:28:22,000
So or the natural way that money
flowed if you like die.

476
00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:24,000
So if a spouse dies, goes to the
next person.

477
00:28:24,100 --> 00:28:25,900
Who knows the family members
right?

478
00:28:26,800 --> 00:28:30,100
A few weeks after Anna's
Funeral, a man who was in jail

479
00:28:30,100 --> 00:28:34,100
for forgery, sent a letter to
sheriff harv and was like, I

480
00:28:34,100 --> 00:28:38,100
know about the murder.
So, both harv and hail rush to

481
00:28:38,100 --> 00:28:41,300
meet this man, and he claims
that Anna's ex-husband Oda.

482
00:28:41,300 --> 00:28:44,300
Brown paid him, eight thousand
dollars to murder her.

483
00:28:44,600 --> 00:28:47,300
He told them, he shot her in the
head and carried her body to the

484
00:28:47,308 --> 00:28:50,100
creek afterward which is why
they hadn't been able to find

485
00:28:50,100 --> 00:28:53,100
the bullet because they've been
looking in the wrong place.

486
00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:55,600
Hmm.
OTA Brown was arrested, but

487
00:28:55,600 --> 00:28:59,000
there was no evidence that the
forger had even been in Osage

488
00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:01,500
County, so, they just released
Oda Brown.

489
00:29:01,500 --> 00:29:04,000
And officially, and his murder
was listed.

490
00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:07,200
She was listed as Murdered by
parties, unknown.

491
00:29:10,100 --> 00:29:13,500
Two months after her daughter's.
Death, Lissie died as well.

492
00:29:14,100 --> 00:29:18,800
She had been ill for years, but
it got like exponentially worse

493
00:29:18,800 --> 00:29:24,700
after Anna died.
Okay, in fact, Molly's

494
00:29:24,700 --> 00:29:29,100
brother-in-law, Bill Smith was
like this feels weird.

495
00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:33,300
And so, he started digging into
the idea that Lizzy had been

496
00:29:33,300 --> 00:29:36,400
poisoned.
This made sense because now

497
00:29:36,400 --> 00:29:39,100
Lizzie would have had to
allotment checks, she'd be

498
00:29:39,100 --> 00:29:40,900
getting after Anna passed,
right?

499
00:29:40,900 --> 00:29:44,400
It was a lot of money,
unfortunately, the local police

500
00:29:44,400 --> 00:29:48,700
showed absolutely no interest in
pursuing Lizzy as a case, an

501
00:29:48,700 --> 00:29:52,000
elderly ill woman died of her
illness and they were not going

502
00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:54,400
to do an autopsy or an inquest
over it.

503
00:29:55,700 --> 00:29:58,200
Somali puts out a two thousand
dollar reward for anybody who

504
00:29:58,208 --> 00:30:00,800
can give her information about
the murder of her sister Anna.

505
00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:03,400
And the Whitehorn family goes
bet you.

506
00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:06,000
We will also put out two
thousand five hundred dollars

507
00:30:06,300 --> 00:30:09,200
for any reward on Charles body.
So now, we're looking at almost

508
00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:13,600
five grand for help on these two
murders that were discovered on

509
00:30:13,600 --> 00:30:18,800
virtually the same day.
Hm, it seems like it'd be a good

510
00:30:18,800 --> 00:30:24,300
motivator, but then har Frey has
got himself charged with failing

511
00:30:24,300 --> 00:30:27,000
to enforce the law.
Law because he'd been accepted

512
00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:30,100
all those bribes from
bootleggers and the Oklahoma

513
00:30:30,100 --> 00:30:33,600
attorney general was aimin to
put him in jail, so he was kind

514
00:30:33,600 --> 00:30:38,700
of busy.
He didn't have any time to look

515
00:30:38,700 --> 00:30:40,500
into the crimes because he was
too busy.

516
00:30:40,500 --> 00:30:42,600
Trying not to go to jail himself
too.

517
00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:48,600
Busy the Oklahoma attorney
general was like, Yeah, Sohail

518
00:30:48,600 --> 00:30:51,500
decides, I'm going to hire a
private detective.

519
00:30:51,900 --> 00:30:55,200
Now in the early 20th century,
detective agencies definitely

520
00:30:55,200 --> 00:30:59,900
filled the void where corrupt or
underfunded or just downright

521
00:30:59,900 --> 00:31:04,100
inept police weren't doing their
job.

522
00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:10,100
Just like now private detectives
are very unwieldy.

523
00:31:10,700 --> 00:31:13,200
You never knew if you were
getting somebody like Virgil

524
00:31:13,200 --> 00:31:16,700
vandagriff who helped capture
her bone Meister, or if you were

525
00:31:16,700 --> 00:31:18,700
going to get a scammer who was
going to take your money and

526
00:31:18,700 --> 00:31:21,500
run.
So it was all over the place.

527
00:31:21,500 --> 00:31:24,300
So hail chooses the detector
from Kansas City who went by the

528
00:31:24,300 --> 00:31:28,200
name.
Pike, first name only Anna

529
00:31:29,100 --> 00:31:32,000
estate was like, screw it.
We're going to hire detective to

530
00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:35,000
and then the Guardians for both
Anna and Lizzie.

531
00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:37,800
The his name was Scott Mathis.
He put together a team of

532
00:31:37,800 --> 00:31:39,800
privatized and so did the white
whore nasty.

533
00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:42,800
So, at this point now the three
of these people have organized

534
00:31:42,800 --> 00:31:48,800
roughly, 50, different
detectives who are all over

535
00:31:49,600 --> 00:31:51,300
those.
Its reservation.

536
00:31:51,400 --> 00:31:53,700
Wow.
Trying to find information and

537
00:31:53,700 --> 00:31:56,500
the thing is these weren't your
average attack devs.

538
00:31:57,400 --> 00:31:59,800
These are all people who had
previously worked for the Secret

539
00:31:59,800 --> 00:32:01,700
Service.
They were considered to be

540
00:32:01,700 --> 00:32:03,300
better than Pinkerton
detectives.

541
00:32:03,300 --> 00:32:09,400
Really one of them was William J
Burns who was referred to as

542
00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:13,400
America's Sherlock Holmes and he
had a whole team of people under

543
00:32:13,400 --> 00:32:16,600
him.
The information about them, like

544
00:32:16,600 --> 00:32:18,800
none of their names are listed
in any of the information that

545
00:32:18,800 --> 00:32:23,700
you look up and the FBI.
Actually just let you go on to

546
00:32:23,700 --> 00:32:26,600
their website and pull up all
the data they have on us.

547
00:32:27,300 --> 00:32:31,100
So it's a lot of reading and
it's very interesting but like

548
00:32:31,600 --> 00:32:36,100
so they were only know by code
numbers and all of, if T of

549
00:32:36,108 --> 00:32:40,300
these code number people, kind
of descended on the town and

550
00:32:40,300 --> 00:32:41,900
they began looking in.
Every one, they were a lot of

551
00:32:41,908 --> 00:32:44,000
dead ends.
A lot of false leads, but they

552
00:32:44,008 --> 00:32:46,800
did learn that Anna.
Had been seen with two men from

553
00:32:46,800 --> 00:32:50,100
the oil fields before her death.
Now while the detectives were

554
00:32:50,100 --> 00:32:54,100
out following every lead, a man,
by the name of aw, Comstock

555
00:32:54,100 --> 00:32:56,200
showed up and gray horse to help
as well.

556
00:32:57,300 --> 00:33:00,500
William Burns had investigated
him in the past for trying to

557
00:33:00,508 --> 00:33:03,600
help an oil company trick, the
Osage Tribal Council into a

558
00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:07,200
badly and deal.
Those charges couldn't be proven

559
00:33:07,600 --> 00:33:11,100
but Burns decided Comstock might
be a good Ally to have.

560
00:33:11,100 --> 00:33:14,800
Hmm.
Everybody was a sub-sect, but

561
00:33:14,800 --> 00:33:16,700
none of them were good enough
suspects.

562
00:33:17,600 --> 00:33:20,400
They ended up finding out that
Anna was pregnant and nobody

563
00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:23,500
knew who the dad was.
And so then, that caused a whole

564
00:33:23,500 --> 00:33:27,200
series of rumors that Anna could
have been sleeping with other

565
00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:31,100
people's boyfriends or husbands.
And that's why she was murdered.

566
00:33:31,400 --> 00:33:36,800
It was all kinds of crazy.
Well, okay, so February, 1922,

567
00:33:36,800 --> 00:33:43,200
nine months after both Anna and
Whitehorn our dad, They don't

568
00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:45,900
know what to hails.
Detective Pike, had abandoned

569
00:33:45,900 --> 00:33:48,500
the case entirely, Sheriff
Harvey couldn't lead, any

570
00:33:48,500 --> 00:33:50,200
investigation?
Because he had been officially

571
00:33:50,200 --> 00:33:52,600
kicked out of office.
They had no more leads to

572
00:33:52,600 --> 00:33:54,500
follow.
It was looking like, they didn't

573
00:33:54,500 --> 00:33:58,400
have any idea who it killed Anna
or Charles, and then in late

574
00:33:58,400 --> 00:34:01,300
February, William steps in left
his house.

575
00:34:01,800 --> 00:34:05,200
And when he came home, a few
hours later, he was visibly ill.

576
00:34:05,700 --> 00:34:12,199
He died before Dawn, unlike
Lizzie William was only 29 and

577
00:34:12,300 --> 00:34:14,800
Considered to be in pretty good
shape.

578
00:34:14,800 --> 00:34:17,800
So his death was very suspicious
and when they decided to do an

579
00:34:17,800 --> 00:34:22,500
inquest in him they determined
that he was poisoned the poison

580
00:34:22,500 --> 00:34:25,800
was assumed to be strychnine and
even though we had the forensic

581
00:34:25,800 --> 00:34:30,000
ability to test for strychnine
poisoning nobody did it.

582
00:34:31,100 --> 00:34:37,000
Why they just decide all you do
is take like a flash sample.

583
00:34:37,100 --> 00:34:38,500
Yeah.
Where I'm looking for is not

584
00:34:38,500 --> 00:34:40,199
flash but you know what I mean?
Yeah.

585
00:34:42,199 --> 00:34:45,199
You see it was like just a
little bit of Flesh that flesh

586
00:34:46,699 --> 00:34:53,500
to go March 2016. 22, another
Osage woman dies of poisoning,

587
00:34:53,800 --> 00:34:56,100
no toxicology done on her
remains either.

588
00:34:56,199 --> 00:35:04,600
What's going on July 28th, 1922
Joe Bates, gets whiskey, from a

589
00:35:04,607 --> 00:35:07,400
stranger.
And after a sip of it later, he

590
00:35:07,400 --> 00:35:10,100
begins frothing at the mouth and
collapses.

591
00:35:10,500 --> 00:35:12,900
He's only in his mid-30s when he
He dies.

592
00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:19,400
At this point.
The Osage Nation is dropping

593
00:35:19,400 --> 00:35:24,000
like flies and they all are
people who coincidentally are

594
00:35:24,000 --> 00:35:31,300
over that. 50% threshold,
meaning, they get checks There

595
00:35:31,300 --> 00:35:36,200
were so many cases by August
that the Osage Nation reached

596
00:35:36,200 --> 00:35:39,200
out to Barney McBride.
Who was a wealthy Oil, Man.

597
00:35:39,500 --> 00:35:42,000
And they were like, listen, you
have connections to DC.

598
00:35:42,400 --> 00:35:46,200
We need help.
Please go get, help.

599
00:35:46,900 --> 00:35:49,200
Someone is killing us, please.
Right.

600
00:35:49,200 --> 00:35:52,200
So McBride was married to an
indigenous woman and she had

601
00:35:52,200 --> 00:35:55,500
passed and he was trusted by the
Osage people.

602
00:35:55,600 --> 00:36:00,200
He was actually raising their
daughter within like the tribe

603
00:36:00,200 --> 00:36:01,800
trying to help her, you know,
know her people.

604
00:36:01,800 --> 00:36:02,600
Right?
Right.

605
00:36:03,200 --> 00:36:08,400
So he agreed to do it.
When Barney gets to d.c.,

606
00:36:08,500 --> 00:36:11,400
there's a telegram waiting for
him in his rooming house.

607
00:36:11,600 --> 00:36:15,100
From a friend of his that just
says Be careful.

608
00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:20,500
That night when McBride went out
to play Billiards, somebody

609
00:36:20,500 --> 00:36:22,500
kidnapped him.
And in the morning they found

610
00:36:22,500 --> 00:36:25,000
his body.
He had been stabbed over 20

611
00:36:25,000 --> 00:36:28,700
times been bludgeoned in the
head, until his skull had

612
00:36:28,700 --> 00:36:33,000
collapsed and stripped naked,
except for his shoes.

613
00:36:33,000 --> 00:36:36,900
And socks had, they not been for
a business card, which had been

614
00:36:36,900 --> 00:36:39,900
tucked in his shoe.
They wouldn't have been able to

615
00:36:39,900 --> 00:36:43,600
ID him, which lets me know that
the people who did this wanted

616
00:36:43,600 --> 00:36:47,800
him to be found.
This was a warning The local

617
00:36:47,800 --> 00:36:51,000
police in Washington were like
he was probably followed from

618
00:36:51,000 --> 00:36:57,400
Oklahoma.
And they wanted to kill him

619
00:36:57,400 --> 00:37:02,000
before he could talk to anybody
official was.

620
00:37:03,500 --> 00:37:05,900
I'm sorry, there was actually an
article in the Washington Post

621
00:37:05,900 --> 00:37:09,700
that was just like conspiracy.
Like, you know, borrow, you

622
00:37:09,700 --> 00:37:14,600
know, oil men murdered due to
conspiracy to kill Rich, Indians

623
00:37:14,600 --> 00:37:20,600
like, major news.
And then it goes quiet, there's

624
00:37:20,600 --> 00:37:23,100
no suspicious deaths, there's
nothing.

625
00:37:23,100 --> 00:37:29,300
Hmm, until February of 1923 This
time, it started again, Henry

626
00:37:29,300 --> 00:37:35,100
Rowan, 40 years old found in his
car Frozen, but he definitely

627
00:37:35,100 --> 00:37:38,700
didn't die from freezing,
because there were two bullets

628
00:37:39,000 --> 00:37:42,800
in the back of his head just
like, with Charles Whitehorn,

629
00:37:43,500 --> 00:37:46,900
there's making this stuff.
Obvious, like, what we're gonna

630
00:37:46,900 --> 00:37:49,800
just like with, Anna, the
deputies and Marshall show up at

631
00:37:49,808 --> 00:37:51,600
the Ravine.
They look at the body.

632
00:37:51,800 --> 00:37:54,300
They noticed there are
trademarks and the frozen mud

633
00:37:55,000 --> 00:37:58,200
from that moment on every OCT.
As had electric lights put

634
00:37:58,200 --> 00:38:01,900
outside of their houses, and
thing is, this would have been

635
00:38:01,900 --> 00:38:05,400
seen as like a really bougie
thing to do.

636
00:38:06,400 --> 00:38:10,300
Because everybody didn't have
light like that in the nineteen

637
00:38:10,300 --> 00:38:13,200
a time, like, everybody didn't
have the ability to drown your

638
00:38:13,200 --> 00:38:16,100
house and light like we do now,
it was expensive but they got

639
00:38:16,100 --> 00:38:18,500
the money to do that, right?
Well, that's what they're like,

640
00:38:18,500 --> 00:38:20,700
oh, these people, they have
lights on all night long outside

641
00:38:20,700 --> 00:38:23,600
their houses, but they had that
so that if they heard something

642
00:38:23,600 --> 00:38:26,500
outside their house, they could
look and be like, yep.

643
00:38:28,300 --> 00:38:29,100
Play it.
Safe.

644
00:38:30,800 --> 00:38:33,200
Molly and her family were still
looking for a killer.

645
00:38:34,000 --> 00:38:39,700
Bill Smith is like I know this
is okay, I'm on to something

646
00:38:39,700 --> 00:38:42,800
here, he's doing his own
separate that's Molly's

647
00:38:42,800 --> 00:38:46,200
brother-in-law.
Married to her sister Rita and

648
00:38:46,200 --> 00:38:48,800
he's just like I'm some is going
on here.

649
00:38:49,100 --> 00:38:51,700
I'm a follow this lead.
He's doing this all on his own

650
00:38:51,700 --> 00:38:53,000
on a stick tape.
Hmm.

651
00:38:54,600 --> 00:38:57,900
And Bill realized he must have
been onto something because they

652
00:38:57,900 --> 00:39:01,700
started hearing people skulking
around the house at night so

653
00:39:01,700 --> 00:39:05,700
much so that he and Rita had
trouble sleeping.

654
00:39:05,700 --> 00:39:10,100
So they moved a month after
Romans death this time.

655
00:39:10,100 --> 00:39:12,900
That was the house closer to the
center of Fairfax where they had

656
00:39:12,900 --> 00:39:15,800
a lot of neighbors, whereas,
before they were out more in the

657
00:39:15,800 --> 00:39:23,500
countryside in March, a Man
shows up at their door and as

658
00:39:23,500 --> 00:39:26,100
like, I heard you So and
farmland and bills.

659
00:39:26,100 --> 00:39:30,200
Like you are mistaken, sir, and
Bill told his friends at the

660
00:39:30,200 --> 00:39:32,200
man, looked like he was casing
the place.

661
00:39:33,300 --> 00:39:36,300
Then all the neighbors.
Dogs started, dying, one by one.

662
00:39:36,300 --> 00:39:39,400
All poisoned, come on.
Bill Tells A friend of his, I'm

663
00:39:39,400 --> 00:39:41,900
pretty sure I'm gonna die soon.
Hmm.

664
00:39:42,900 --> 00:39:46,300
So on March 9th, Bill drives a
friend to a Bootleggers Ranch on

665
00:39:46,300 --> 00:39:47,800
the western side of the
reservation.

666
00:39:48,200 --> 00:39:51,000
This Bootlegger is Henry
grammar, he owned a ranch, and

667
00:39:51,000 --> 00:39:54,600
he was a well-known outlaw.
With connections to the Kansas

668
00:39:54,600 --> 00:39:57,300
mob.
So bill, and his friend got to

669
00:39:57,300 --> 00:39:59,700
the ranch grammar is not there.
So they just grab a couple jars

670
00:39:59,700 --> 00:40:02,100
of whiskey.
Have a couple of swigs, they

671
00:40:02,100 --> 00:40:04,800
drop, bill off back at home
Rita's there.

672
00:40:04,800 --> 00:40:07,400
And so is one of their cermets
named Nettie, Brookshire, who,

673
00:40:07,400 --> 00:40:09,400
sometimes would stay there
overnight.

674
00:40:09,700 --> 00:40:14,300
Like if she was working late and
about 3 a.m. everyone in town

675
00:40:14,400 --> 00:40:17,600
heard a loud explosion that
radiated through the

676
00:40:17,607 --> 00:40:22,500
neighborhood, it bent trees,
blew out windows people down the

677
00:40:22,500 --> 00:40:25,400
street, At the Fairfax Motel
were thrown out of their

678
00:40:25,400 --> 00:40:29,100
ballads, like was there a bomb?
Yes.

679
00:40:29,400 --> 00:40:31,900
Molly and Earnest were over on
the other side of the

680
00:40:31,908 --> 00:40:35,300
reservation and Molly looked out
the window and went there's a

681
00:40:35,300 --> 00:40:38,900
fire.
She thought it was Thunder at

682
00:40:38,900 --> 00:40:43,000
first but it was Bill Smith
house and the entire house was

683
00:40:43,000 --> 00:40:45,200
gone.
This was such a massive

684
00:40:45,200 --> 00:40:52,600
explosion that like it was just
destroyed the town rushed out

685
00:40:52,600 --> 00:40:54,700
and they're like, we got to look
for any survivors, anybody

686
00:40:54,700 --> 00:40:58,300
survive and they began moving
rubble and after forever, they

687
00:40:58,300 --> 00:41:02,300
started hearing Bill screaming.
Mmm, Rita was beside him in bed.

688
00:41:02,300 --> 00:41:04,700
They said it looked like she was
peacefully sleeping, but when

689
00:41:04,700 --> 00:41:07,400
they moved her, they saw that
she had been Hit by something in

690
00:41:07,400 --> 00:41:11,100
the back of her head, she was
killed immediately.

691
00:41:11,400 --> 00:41:15,400
They couldn't even find Nettie.
A Justice of the Peace.

692
00:41:15,400 --> 00:41:19,100
Simply like looked at it and
determined that she had been

693
00:41:19,100 --> 00:41:22,700
blown to pieces that he was only
19 years old.

694
00:41:22,700 --> 00:41:24,700
She was married and had a small
child.

695
00:41:25,000 --> 00:41:28,000
There weren't enough remains for
them to even do an inquest.

696
00:41:28,000 --> 00:41:31,400
And in fact, they sell, they
found part of Nettie's, remains

697
00:41:31,500 --> 00:41:35,000
roughly 300 feet away burned
into the side of a house.

698
00:41:35,000 --> 00:41:40,400
Wow, And all I could think of
here was like damn poor Molly.

699
00:41:40,700 --> 00:41:44,300
She is literally now the only
person left alive in her family.

700
00:41:44,300 --> 00:41:45,800
Yeah.
Okay.

701
00:41:45,900 --> 00:41:49,000
The carry Bill to an ambulance,
they took him to a hospital on

702
00:41:49,000 --> 00:41:52,400
the way to the hospital.
He passed out originally when

703
00:41:52,400 --> 00:41:54,700
they found him, he was awake and
screaming and when he found out

704
00:41:54,700 --> 00:41:57,900
read, it was gone.
He asked one of the people to

705
00:41:57,900 --> 00:42:00,400
save him for their gun so he
could kill himself to.

706
00:42:00,700 --> 00:42:03,800
He was sad.
Poor guy.

707
00:42:04,200 --> 00:42:07,200
They realized as they were
taking him to the hospital that

708
00:42:07,200 --> 00:42:08,900
this had been planned.
Specifically.

709
00:42:08,900 --> 00:42:13,900
Because roughly every like
justice of the peace, all those

710
00:42:13,900 --> 00:42:14,800
people.
Hmm.

711
00:42:15,200 --> 00:42:16,700
We're out of town for a court
case.

712
00:42:16,800 --> 00:42:20,800
Oh, how convenient?
They had to rush back in the

713
00:42:20,800 --> 00:42:22,800
middle of the night.
Cops set up flood.

714
00:42:22,800 --> 00:42:25,600
Lights at all the access and
actresses to the hospital.

715
00:42:26,000 --> 00:42:30,000
They posted an armed guard
outside of his hospital room.

716
00:42:30,800 --> 00:42:34,400
Everybody was like if Bill was
if this was because he said he

717
00:42:34,400 --> 00:42:36,500
knew something.
He's got to tell us something

718
00:42:36,500 --> 00:42:37,700
now.
Yeah.

719
00:42:37,700 --> 00:42:41,000
Yeah.
Because he has time to take him

720
00:42:41,000 --> 00:42:44,000
for it, right.
His friends say that like well

721
00:42:44,000 --> 00:42:46,500
he rambled on and on about
stuff.

722
00:42:46,500 --> 00:42:49,300
Sometimes he like woke up and he
was like did I say something?

723
00:42:49,500 --> 00:42:51,800
Yeah.
And they were like no no he's

724
00:42:51,800 --> 00:42:54,800
trying to stop himself or so
worried that maybe he would say

725
00:42:54,800 --> 00:42:59,800
something that would call it.
Like it was weird and then four

726
00:42:59,800 --> 00:43:05,400
days later he died.
He never told anybody anything,

727
00:43:05,400 --> 00:43:07,000
huh?
At least at this point.

728
00:43:07,000 --> 00:43:09,800
How did he die?
It was just my explosion from

729
00:43:09,800 --> 00:43:12,200
his injuries.
Okay I was about to say, what do

730
00:43:12,200 --> 00:43:14,800
I miss my games I was worried.
Okay, question for you real

731
00:43:14,800 --> 00:43:18,000
quick so I don't, I'm not sure
how reservations are set up.

732
00:43:18,100 --> 00:43:22,800
Uh-huh.
Is there some type of security

733
00:43:22,800 --> 00:43:25,600
they have?
There is a lot of them are big.

734
00:43:25,600 --> 00:43:29,100
Open areas.
There are generally reservation,

735
00:43:29,100 --> 00:43:32,500
police, and they did have like
hail was one of their

736
00:43:32,500 --> 00:43:34,300
reservation chair, right?
Right.

737
00:43:34,300 --> 00:43:36,600
Right.
It's we're like right now we

738
00:43:36,600 --> 00:43:38,200
come.
We run into issues in the u.s.

739
00:43:38,200 --> 00:43:40,900
when there's like a missing
woman like the case that I

740
00:43:40,900 --> 00:43:42,600
talked about on Tick Tock last
week.

741
00:43:43,100 --> 00:43:46,600
They don't know where she died
or where this lady went missing.

742
00:43:47,800 --> 00:43:51,100
So they're not Sure who's in
charge.

743
00:43:51,100 --> 00:43:53,500
Is it the reservation police?
Is it the state?

744
00:43:53,500 --> 00:43:56,200
That's why a lot of times when
there are reservation like

745
00:43:56,200 --> 00:43:59,000
people who go missing or die on
reservations, it's handled by

746
00:43:59,000 --> 00:44:02,000
the feds because well, we least
know that they're the ones in

747
00:44:02,000 --> 00:44:03,000
charge right.
True.

748
00:44:03,000 --> 00:44:06,000
But as far as this was, it was
just it was a massive area

749
00:44:06,000 --> 00:44:07,100
enemy.
The thing is, they had people

750
00:44:07,100 --> 00:44:11,200
coming and going nonstop because
they had boil Barons coming in.

751
00:44:11,400 --> 00:44:13,900
They were auctioning off land to
make money.

752
00:44:13,900 --> 00:44:17,000
There were people, you know,
digging, they just ran wheel.

753
00:44:17,200 --> 00:44:19,700
There were loads of random
people coming off and It's

754
00:44:19,700 --> 00:44:23,000
reservation today we might not
have that, right?

755
00:44:23,000 --> 00:44:26,700
But at this point in history
with the Osage Nation, they did

756
00:44:26,700 --> 00:44:30,900
have too many people on there
which is also contributed to the

757
00:44:30,900 --> 00:44:36,300
confusion with whether this was
an internal conflict or sore,

758
00:44:36,300 --> 00:44:39,200
somebody criminals on the
outside trying to kill people,

759
00:44:39,200 --> 00:44:40,100
right?
Okay.

760
00:44:41,200 --> 00:44:45,700
It's just like, is okay, kids.
I told you.

761
00:44:45,900 --> 00:44:48,100
This is a tail.
It's a tale, isn't it?

762
00:44:48,100 --> 00:44:52,200
That is for me and I like You
like it so, April 23rd.

763
00:44:52,600 --> 00:44:57,000
Sorry, got April 23rd.
But April of 1923 the Governor

764
00:44:57,000 --> 00:45:01,000
of Oklahoma, Jacksy Walton sends
his top investigator Herman, Fox

765
00:45:01,000 --> 00:45:04,500
Davis, 2006 County because
people and O's the chills were

766
00:45:04,500 --> 00:45:07,100
saying that the reason why they
hadn't found the killers because

767
00:45:07,400 --> 00:45:11,400
it must be somebody in the local
police department, or either

768
00:45:11,500 --> 00:45:14,000
someone in bed with the local
police department.

769
00:45:14,700 --> 00:45:17,900
Now Davis was also a former
member of the burns detective

770
00:45:17,900 --> 00:45:20,500
agency and the governor Like bat
listen.

771
00:45:20,500 --> 00:45:22,400
I hired the best man to protect
me.

772
00:45:22,400 --> 00:45:28,700
He's got that within a few days
though Davis was hanging out at

773
00:45:28,700 --> 00:45:32,600
the Bootleggers houses and in
the gambling Den said he was no

774
00:45:32,600 --> 00:45:35,800
help.
In fact by June, he ended up

775
00:45:35,800 --> 00:45:38,900
pleading guilty to bribery and
got a two-year sentence.

776
00:45:39,000 --> 00:45:41,000
Oh my God, the governor pardoned
him.

777
00:45:41,300 --> 00:45:45,500
Then when he got released, he
killed it attorney and got life.

778
00:45:45,500 --> 00:45:51,000
What present do, yeah.
That One didn't work out and

779
00:45:51,000 --> 00:45:53,900
following that Governor Walton
got impeached in November of

780
00:45:53,900 --> 00:45:58,800
1923 seems he had pardoned a lot
of people including some of the

781
00:45:58,800 --> 00:46:03,300
oilmen.
He was a getting that money to

782
00:46:03,400 --> 00:46:07,900
build a nicer house from sorry.
Of course, of course, one day in

783
00:46:07,900 --> 00:46:13,500
June of 1923 though, George big
heart called up his friend, an

784
00:46:13,500 --> 00:46:18,000
attorney WW1, he was sick, and
he was being taken to Oklahoma

785
00:46:18,000 --> 00:46:22,300
City Hospital, George big heart.
Said that he had information

786
00:46:22,300 --> 00:46:24,500
about the murders, and he was
only going to speak to Vaughn in

787
00:46:24,500 --> 00:46:27,200
person.
So, before Vaughn went to go to

788
00:46:27,200 --> 00:46:30,300
that meeting.
See his friend, he goes and he

789
00:46:30,300 --> 00:46:32,400
says, his wife.
Listen, I've been collecting

790
00:46:32,400 --> 00:46:37,000
evidence about this on my own.
I have hit it at this location.

791
00:46:39,600 --> 00:46:42,000
When van gets their big card is
still alive.

792
00:46:42,300 --> 00:46:44,100
He shares the information with
his friend.

793
00:46:44,200 --> 00:46:45,900
Apparently, it's very
incriminating.

794
00:46:46,400 --> 00:46:47,900
Then Vaughn sits with his
friend.

795
00:46:48,000 --> 00:46:54,300
As big heart dies Vaughn calls,
the new Osage County, sheriff,

796
00:46:54,300 --> 00:46:56,900
and he's like, listen, I'm
coming back tomorrow.

797
00:46:57,400 --> 00:46:59,200
I know everything about
everything.

798
00:46:59,200 --> 00:47:00,700
You don't even got to worry
about it.

799
00:47:00,900 --> 00:47:04,600
The sheriff's just like, well,
do you know who killed Baker and

800
00:47:04,600 --> 00:47:06,800
he's like, not only do I know
who killed my friend.

801
00:47:06,800 --> 00:47:08,800
I know more.
Oh man.

802
00:47:08,800 --> 00:47:09,700
Let's go.
Go.

803
00:47:09,900 --> 00:47:12,500
He was last seen boarding the
overnight train and when the

804
00:47:12,500 --> 00:47:15,000
train pulled into the station,
he wasn't on the train anymore.

805
00:47:15,100 --> 00:47:23,300
What know what They found his
body about 36 hours later.

806
00:47:23,900 --> 00:47:27,400
It was about 30 miles north of
Oklahoma City on off the train

807
00:47:27,400 --> 00:47:31,100
tracks, he had been thrown off
the train, his neck was broken.

808
00:47:31,300 --> 00:47:35,100
He had also been stripped naked,
just like McBride so everything

809
00:47:35,100 --> 00:47:40,800
he had written down in that
meeting and then when Vaughn's

810
00:47:40,800 --> 00:47:44,700
Widow went to that special
hiding spot it was cleaned out

811
00:47:44,700 --> 00:47:48,000
to what the fuck.
Okay, look, I know this isn't

812
00:47:48,000 --> 00:47:49,600
passed but guys, you gotta be
quiet.

813
00:47:50,300 --> 00:47:55,600
Keep walking at this point, the
reign of terror had claimed 24

814
00:47:55,900 --> 00:47:59,600
people from just the Osage
Nation, but it was also killing

815
00:47:59,600 --> 00:48:06,400
a bunch of people outside of an
Asian to the Rancher who was

816
00:48:06,400 --> 00:48:09,500
trying to help the
investigation, they found his

817
00:48:09,500 --> 00:48:11,900
body at the bottom of a flight
of steps, and they were able to

818
00:48:11,908 --> 00:48:15,200
determine that he was drugged.
Another guy was in a different

819
00:48:15,200 --> 00:48:19,000
city, he was an Oklahoma City
and he got shot.

820
00:48:19,700 --> 00:48:24,000
In broad daylight on his way to
go talk to State officials about

821
00:48:24,000 --> 00:48:27,800
the case, my God.
So now it's not just people with

822
00:48:27,800 --> 00:48:30,200
a head, right?
It's anybody who's trying to get

823
00:48:30,200 --> 00:48:33,200
help for the tribe.
Yeah.

824
00:48:34,600 --> 00:48:37,200
The justice of the peace was
receiving Anonymous threats.

825
00:48:37,500 --> 00:48:40,300
Like at this point, he was just
like, I don't even want to do

826
00:48:40,300 --> 00:48:44,500
inquests on the new bodies that
are being found, the new County.

827
00:48:44,500 --> 00:48:49,900
Sheriff was just like, listen,
you know, we don't gotta worry

828
00:48:49,900 --> 00:48:52,100
about this.
It's just some Indians dying.

829
00:48:52,100 --> 00:48:55,900
What are you talking about?
He was scared.

830
00:48:57,500 --> 00:49:01,500
And after the bombing of the
Smith house, the Osage tribe

831
00:49:01,500 --> 00:49:03,400
began asking the federal
government to send

832
00:49:03,400 --> 00:49:06,300
investigators.
But specifically investigators

833
00:49:06,300 --> 00:49:10,700
who had no ties to Oklahoma at
all because there was obviously

834
00:49:10,700 --> 00:49:14,000
a leak here, the tribal council
actually sent a formal

835
00:49:14,000 --> 00:49:16,300
resolution to DC and I'm going
to read you part of it, which

836
00:49:16,300 --> 00:49:19,900
says, whereas and no case have
the criminals been apprehended

837
00:49:19,900 --> 00:49:22,800
and brought to Justice.
Whereas the Osage Tribal Council

838
00:49:22,800 --> 00:49:25,200
deemed essential for the
preservation of the lives and

839
00:49:25,200 --> 00:49:27,500
property.
Of the members of the tribe that

840
00:49:27,500 --> 00:49:31,400
prompt and strenuous action.
Be taken to capture and punish

841
00:49:31,400 --> 00:49:33,700
the criminals.
Be it further resolved.

842
00:49:33,700 --> 00:49:36,900
That The Honorable Secretary of
the Interior be requested to

843
00:49:36,900 --> 00:49:40,700
obtain the services of the
Department of Justice in

844
00:49:40,700 --> 00:49:43,800
capturing and Prosecuting the
murderers of the members of the

845
00:49:43,800 --> 00:49:46,800
Osage tribe.
Letters were also sent to the

846
00:49:46,800 --> 00:49:51,300
Kansas to Kansas Senator Charles
Curtis who was part call and

847
00:49:51,300 --> 00:49:53,900
part dosage.
And at the time, the highest

848
00:49:53,900 --> 00:49:58,600
elected official with an e and
e, An ancestry like he was the

849
00:49:58,600 --> 00:50:00,700
highest you have been ever
elected.

850
00:50:02,800 --> 00:50:06,400
While the tribe is waiting for a
federal response, Molly is just

851
00:50:06,400 --> 00:50:09,200
living in fear.
She's like, I'm definitely the

852
00:50:09,200 --> 00:50:13,400
next Target she heard people
breaking into their car one

853
00:50:13,400 --> 00:50:16,900
night and Earnest was just like,
just lay still, I don't do

854
00:50:16,900 --> 00:50:18,500
anything, let them take the car,
who cares?

855
00:50:18,600 --> 00:50:23,600
It's just a car.
When her brother-in-law and

856
00:50:23,600 --> 00:50:27,600
sister had been killed, hail was
in Texas.

857
00:50:28,700 --> 00:50:32,700
Hail shows up at Molly's house.
In is like listen I'm gonna get

858
00:50:32,700 --> 00:50:35,900
you your Vengeance.
I promise part of Hale's pasture

859
00:50:35,900 --> 00:50:39,200
is set on fire acres of land
damaged.

860
00:50:39,200 --> 00:50:42,400
Hundreds of cattle dead.
Molly just decided she wasn't

861
00:50:42,400 --> 00:50:43,400
going to leave the house
anymore.

862
00:50:44,900 --> 00:50:48,300
She didn't let anybody visit.
She stopped going to church.

863
00:50:49,600 --> 00:50:54,100
Molly's Faith was gone at this
point, Her Health deteriorated.

864
00:50:54,800 --> 00:50:59,400
She ended up actually giving her
third child with Ernest to other

865
00:50:59,400 --> 00:51:03,000
family members to raise because
she was like, well, if I'm going

866
00:51:03,000 --> 00:51:07,900
to die, maybe one of us can
live, so sad.

867
00:51:09,000 --> 00:51:12,700
That was a her little two year
old Anna at the time.

868
00:51:12,700 --> 00:51:16,400
Mmm, also she named the baby
after this.

869
00:51:16,400 --> 00:51:21,100
Yeah, anyway, we don't hear a
whole lot about Molly after

870
00:51:21,100 --> 00:51:24,900
this, the local Physicians, the
shown Brothers began showing up

871
00:51:24,900 --> 00:51:26,900
and giving her injections for
her health.

872
00:51:27,100 --> 00:51:30,700
That they told her was insulin
would should have helped since

873
00:51:30,700 --> 00:51:33,900
her her health issue was
diabetes raw.

874
00:51:34,000 --> 00:51:36,300
But it wasn't, it was not
helping at all.

875
00:51:36,400 --> 00:51:41,300
And in fact, in 1925, Molly sent
a secret message to a priest

876
00:51:41,700 --> 00:51:45,200
saying that she was in danger,
and she was being poisoned.

877
00:51:46,800 --> 00:51:51,300
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
You were now at the same time,

878
00:51:51,700 --> 00:51:56,000
Tom white is a special agent at
the Bureau of Investigation as

879
00:51:56,000 --> 00:51:58,700
it was called.
He was working in Houston and he

880
00:51:58,700 --> 00:52:00,600
received an urgent order from
DC.

881
00:52:01,000 --> 00:52:04,400
His new boss, J Edgar Hoover was
like, I need to talk to you and

882
00:52:04,400 --> 00:52:08,200
I need to talk to you in person.
Whitehead joined the bureau in

883
00:52:08,200 --> 00:52:12,000
1917 after he had been barred
from joining World War one due

884
00:52:12,000 --> 00:52:16,200
to a recent surgery, he still
wanted to serve his country but

885
00:52:16,400 --> 00:52:20,300
there was also another issue.
Tom white was not like a regular

886
00:52:20,300 --> 00:52:24,200
Lawman he was a cowboy hmm.
He had been raised in the

887
00:52:24,200 --> 00:52:29,100
wilderness but he was noticing
that the need for Cowboys was

888
00:52:29,100 --> 00:52:32,400
slowly shrinking in the u.s. we
were moving away from the wild

889
00:52:32,400 --> 00:52:37,100
west era and so he was like
maybe if I if I Don't get what

890
00:52:37,100 --> 00:52:39,900
the new times.
I'm going to be left behind you.

891
00:52:40,000 --> 00:52:44,500
Yeah, unfortunately, now
President Theodore Roosevelt had

892
00:52:44,500 --> 00:52:47,100
created The Bureau as a way to
fill the void in law enforcement

893
00:52:47,100 --> 00:52:50,900
in 1908, it was so new that they
only had a couple hundred agents

894
00:52:50,900 --> 00:52:52,900
in a few field offices Across
America.

895
00:52:53,200 --> 00:52:55,100
They hadn't really figured out
exactly what they were doing

896
00:52:55,100 --> 00:52:56,800
yet.
Sometimes they worked on bank

897
00:52:56,800 --> 00:52:59,000
fraud or antitrust cases, other
times.

898
00:52:59,000 --> 00:53:03,300
It was shipments of stolen, cars
films, smut all sorts of random

899
00:53:03,300 --> 00:53:05,100
stuff being stolen Across
America.

900
00:53:05,600 --> 00:53:08,700
Other times, they hunted.
Escaped prisoner and sometimes

901
00:53:08,700 --> 00:53:11,600
they were called in to deal with
crimes on Indian reservations.

902
00:53:11,600 --> 00:53:15,200
Kind of like now because they're
the only ones with jurisdiction

903
00:53:15,200 --> 00:53:21,600
because their federal agent They
didn't really have any power to

904
00:53:21,600 --> 00:53:25,600
arrest, anybody back then, but
they were very good at figuring

905
00:53:25,600 --> 00:53:28,600
things out.
This was like, this was so new

906
00:53:28,600 --> 00:53:30,500
that ages didn't even carry
weapons.

907
00:53:30,500 --> 00:53:34,000
As a part of being an agent
Back, Then They Carried weapons

908
00:53:34,000 --> 00:53:36,200
because they knew that they were
about to be about that business,

909
00:53:36,200 --> 00:53:37,900
right?
But it wasn't like you have a

910
00:53:37,900 --> 00:53:40,300
special issued weapon, right?
Okay.

911
00:53:40,800 --> 00:53:42,500
So Tom white arrives at the
bureau.

912
00:53:42,500 --> 00:53:47,100
He here, learns about the case
in Osage County, and it had been

913
00:53:47,100 --> 00:53:55,300
two years since since the nation
had sent, That letter and they

914
00:53:55,300 --> 00:53:59,200
had sent other agents to check
it out.

915
00:54:00,500 --> 00:54:02,300
And all the other agents that
said the same thing.

916
00:54:04,000 --> 00:54:08,900
There's nothing we can do here.
The tribe.

917
00:54:08,900 --> 00:54:12,300
It actually sold part of their
land to help fund the

918
00:54:12,300 --> 00:54:17,300
investigation, which is unheard
of and messed up.

919
00:54:17,800 --> 00:54:20,700
They ended up selling about 20
thousand dollars worth of lamb

920
00:54:20,700 --> 00:54:22,000
which is about three hundred
thousand dollars.

921
00:54:22,000 --> 00:54:26,200
Now to be told that there was
nothing that could be done.

922
00:54:26,200 --> 00:54:30,600
Wow.
They were just going to drop it

923
00:54:30,600 --> 00:54:35,100
back into the locals hands and
Hoover was like we need to do

924
00:54:35,100 --> 00:54:36,500
this and we need to do it
differently.

925
00:54:37,800 --> 00:54:41,200
So he convinced the Governor of
Oklahoma to release this guy who

926
00:54:41,200 --> 00:54:44,200
was known as Blackie Thompson
and that's a super racist name

927
00:54:44,200 --> 00:54:47,700
because Blackie was literally
just like a native man who was

928
00:54:47,700 --> 00:54:50,600
like a quarter Indian.
He couldn't have been that dark

929
00:54:50,600 --> 00:54:54,400
for y'all to name him Blackie.
I'm just saying I looked at

930
00:54:54,400 --> 00:54:57,600
pictures of him and he was
probably a hair darker than I

931
00:54:57,600 --> 00:54:58,400
am.
Oh wow.

932
00:54:58,700 --> 00:55:02,000
Well You know, they used to call
I know, but you just go mad

933
00:55:02,000 --> 00:55:04,400
about it.
So when I talk about him, I just

934
00:55:04,500 --> 00:55:08,600
end up writing about him as
Thompson, do nothing.

935
00:55:12,500 --> 00:55:15,600
Thank you.
Like what?

936
00:55:15,600 --> 00:55:17,700
I was when I heard his name, I
was like oh, he was probably a

937
00:55:17,707 --> 00:55:20,300
dark-skinned man.
Know they was just racist.

938
00:55:20,300 --> 00:55:21,300
Yeah.
Okay.

939
00:55:25,700 --> 00:55:28,500
Thompson was going to gather
evidence working for the bureau.

940
00:55:30,200 --> 00:55:32,000
Because they were like listen,
No One's Gonna question this

941
00:55:32,000 --> 00:55:35,500
convicted bank robber for
navigating Osage County.

942
00:55:35,500 --> 00:55:37,500
This is where a lot of bank,
robbers hide out in the Hills.

943
00:55:38,200 --> 00:55:40,500
Unfortunately, the agents had
been said to keep an eye on him,

944
00:55:40,500 --> 00:55:43,300
lost track of him and it was a
chills and he robbed another

945
00:55:43,300 --> 00:55:45,600
bank and killed a police
officer, and it took them a long

946
00:55:45,600 --> 00:55:49,000
time to find them again.
So that's kind of why there was

947
00:55:49,000 --> 00:55:54,500
that two-year Gap because
literally everybody was Trying

948
00:55:54,500 --> 00:55:57,100
to deal with the Scandal that
they had messed up.

949
00:55:58,700 --> 00:56:00,500
In fact, like I said, Hoover had
just gotten his job.

950
00:56:00,500 --> 00:56:03,200
So he was like, crap, we can't
do this before.

951
00:56:03,200 --> 00:56:05,800
There was also a whole nother,
like Federal Scandal that

952
00:56:05,800 --> 00:56:08,100
happened during that time
period.

953
00:56:08,100 --> 00:56:11,400
So they were really worried
about losing Federal funding and

954
00:56:11,400 --> 00:56:15,400
proving that the Bureau of
Investigation was vital to the

955
00:56:15,400 --> 00:56:21,500
Department of Justice.
So Hoover brings in Tom.

956
00:56:21,500 --> 00:56:24,800
Wait, a cowboy see, there were
still.

957
00:56:24,800 --> 00:56:27,800
There were a couple of cowboys
who worked for the feds at this

958
00:56:27,800 --> 00:56:30,900
point but all the new guys who
were coming in were what Tom

959
00:56:30,900 --> 00:56:33,000
Wright referred to as the
college boys.

960
00:56:33,000 --> 00:56:35,600
Oh these are people who are
going to college and then

961
00:56:35,600 --> 00:56:38,200
joining the bureau which is how
it works.

962
00:56:38,200 --> 00:56:43,800
Now, usually But Tom Wayne
understood the assignment.

963
00:56:44,600 --> 00:56:48,200
He's like you're not bringing in
the military, former military,

964
00:56:48,200 --> 00:56:51,800
any former cops, you're calling
in somebody who's a friend.

965
00:56:51,800 --> 00:56:56,600
Here is a man who has experience
dealing with the wild west and

966
00:56:56,600 --> 00:57:00,500
osich Hills is the wild west.
So they sat white to the

967
00:57:00,500 --> 00:57:03,200
Oklahoma field office and the
field office, there was in

968
00:57:03,200 --> 00:57:04,800
desperate.
Need of somebody who knew what

969
00:57:04,800 --> 00:57:08,200
they were doing, because they
were inundated with crime.

970
00:57:08,200 --> 00:57:11,100
Just constant crime.
The bootleggers.

971
00:57:11,200 --> 00:57:13,300
Is the gambling dens.
Like, they were just like,

972
00:57:13,300 --> 00:57:15,600
there's so much crime, we can't
keep up with it.

973
00:57:15,600 --> 00:57:19,900
Help us please.
This was both an opportunity and

974
00:57:19,900 --> 00:57:22,300
if he messed up, this was going
to be a death sentence to his

975
00:57:22,300 --> 00:57:26,800
career, other agents who have
been sent to Osa chills and who

976
00:57:26,800 --> 00:57:29,500
had not done anything.
Had either been sent to distant

977
00:57:29,500 --> 00:57:31,900
far away, field offices, or
outright fired.

978
00:57:34,200 --> 00:57:36,500
White was also aware that every
single person who had gotten

979
00:57:36,500 --> 00:57:41,200
close to the truth here had been
murdered, so he knew that he was

980
00:57:41,200 --> 00:57:43,400
going to have to operate
differently, right?

981
00:57:43,800 --> 00:57:47,100
He spent the first part of the
summer of 1925 cinch simply

982
00:57:47,100 --> 00:57:50,700
catching up on four years of
murders and Mayhem in Osage

983
00:57:50,700 --> 00:57:53,400
County.
He felt that there were had to

984
00:57:53,400 --> 00:57:56,500
have been clues in the original
files that would like lead him

985
00:57:56,500 --> 00:57:59,500
to some answers.
And he was surprised to learn

986
00:57:59,500 --> 00:58:02,300
that despite Molly Burkhart
being the only surviving member

987
00:58:02,300 --> 00:58:05,500
of her family.
Nobody had decided to interview

988
00:58:05,500 --> 00:58:08,200
her.
So weird.

989
00:58:08,600 --> 00:58:10,800
Yeah, people dropping the ball
laughter, right?

990
00:58:11,400 --> 00:58:15,400
He noted that Osage murders were
definitely not that of a serial

991
00:58:15,400 --> 00:58:17,100
killer.
We didn't call it a serial

992
00:58:17,100 --> 00:58:19,900
killer at the time, but he was
just like it's not following any

993
00:58:19,900 --> 00:58:21,500
pattern.
We had people shot stabbed

994
00:58:21,500 --> 00:58:25,700
poisoned, drugged bombs.
It was random forms of murder

995
00:58:26,100 --> 00:58:32,400
but he noted in his writings
that these were very planned out

996
00:58:32,400 --> 00:58:34,800
execution.
Yes, they every single detail.

997
00:58:34,800 --> 00:58:39,700
Nothing left to chance.
White knew he couldn't trust

998
00:58:39,700 --> 00:58:42,600
anything from the local Lawman
or the private detectives.

999
00:58:43,600 --> 00:58:47,200
Honestly, the giant file of
stuff at the detectives wrote

1000
00:58:47,600 --> 00:58:50,400
was just a lot of personal
opinion just a bullshit

1001
00:58:50,400 --> 00:58:53,800
basically like they were
following stuff but like it was

1002
00:58:53,800 --> 00:58:56,400
just they wrote down everything.
There was no discernment.

1003
00:58:56,400 --> 00:59:00,700
Oh okay, I got you like she
talked about this in the sky was

1004
00:59:00,700 --> 00:59:01,600
blue.
That day.

1005
00:59:01,600 --> 00:59:05,100
Yeah details I was just like
this is so much.

1006
00:59:05,200 --> 00:59:07,300
No wonder people were
overwhelmed by it before.

1007
00:59:09,700 --> 00:59:11,400
It wasn't an issue like we're
sometimes.

1008
00:59:11,400 --> 00:59:14,600
There were no leads, there were
too many leads and they hadn't

1009
00:59:14,600 --> 00:59:16,900
followed them down and figure
them out.

1010
00:59:16,900 --> 00:59:19,700
Right?
So he assumed he was like I need

1011
00:59:19,700 --> 00:59:23,700
a team and he knew they were
going to have a rough time

1012
00:59:23,700 --> 00:59:26,400
because Witnesses at this point
were terrified that they were

1013
00:59:26,400 --> 00:59:30,000
going to be murdered.
Why decided that he was going to

1014
00:59:30,000 --> 00:59:33,800
be the face of the investigation
along with two other regular

1015
00:59:33,800 --> 00:59:38,100
members of The Bureau and
everybody else who was involved

1016
00:59:38,100 --> 00:59:43,400
will go undercover.
He decided the only other people

1017
00:59:43,400 --> 00:59:45,500
he was going to bring onto the
team, we're Cowboys.

1018
00:59:46,300 --> 00:59:49,000
So he brought in a 56 year.
Old Sheriff from New Mexico with

1019
00:59:49,000 --> 00:59:51,100
a talent for Assuming New
identities.

1020
00:59:51,400 --> 00:59:56,300
Also, a former Texas Ranger who
was very well, versed in danger,

1021
00:59:57,100 --> 00:59:59,600
He brought in a deep-cover agent
who looked like an insurance

1022
00:59:59,600 --> 01:00:03,200
salesman because he had been an
insurance salesman, huh?

1023
01:00:04,600 --> 01:00:08,900
He kept one of the previous
agents who had gone into Osage

1024
01:00:08,900 --> 01:00:13,400
County before John Berger, John
knew the case and had a list of

1025
01:00:13,400 --> 01:00:17,500
criminal informants in Oklahoma.
And he also brought in Frank

1026
01:00:17,500 --> 01:00:21,400
Smith, Smith was also older and
he was also a cowboy.

1027
01:00:21,800 --> 01:00:24,200
The three of them were going to
be like the front people who

1028
01:00:24,200 --> 01:00:28,100
were doing the visible.
Esta, gatien that everybody in

1029
01:00:28,100 --> 01:00:31,500
town can see, right?
Then they also their last member

1030
01:00:31,800 --> 01:00:35,600
was a man by the name of John
Ren.

1031
01:00:36,300 --> 01:00:41,400
John ran is a former spy for
revolutionary leaders in Mexico

1032
01:00:42,300 --> 01:00:44,100
and he was also India.
Mm-hmm.

1033
01:00:45,200 --> 01:00:47,500
Cool.
Smart Ute, which is a tribe that

1034
01:00:47,500 --> 01:00:49,500
lived in what is now Colorado
and Utah.

1035
01:00:50,500 --> 01:00:54,100
Ryan was it, incredible
investigator but he had been

1036
01:00:54,100 --> 01:00:56,300
fired because he hated to do
paperwork.

1037
01:00:57,000 --> 01:01:01,400
I feel that Hoover had actually
only reinstated him, roughly a

1038
01:01:01,408 --> 01:01:04,600
few months beforehand and was
just like, you got to do what

1039
01:01:04,600 --> 01:01:08,400
you're supposed to do.
Man, I dunno supposed to, but

1040
01:01:08,400 --> 01:01:11,000
paperwork is just like, it's
above my pay grade, you know I'm

1041
01:01:11,000 --> 01:01:16,800
saying, give me a raise, maybe
white needed ran because in

1042
01:01:16,800 --> 01:01:20,700
reading the old investigation
papers, There was a lot of

1043
01:01:20,700 --> 01:01:24,900
casual racism in the report and
then also a little bit of

1044
01:01:24,900 --> 01:01:27,900
jealousy just because little
that casual Reese's one of the

1045
01:01:27,900 --> 01:01:30,400
bits.
I read said that the OCH people

1046
01:01:30,400 --> 01:01:34,100
were lazy pathetic, and the only
way to get make them talk was to

1047
01:01:34,100 --> 01:01:37,400
cut off their allowance.
Wow, that's the person.

1048
01:01:37,400 --> 01:01:40,800
Who's your tribe is.
Paying you to be here and fix

1049
01:01:40,800 --> 01:01:41,800
this?
Yeah.

1050
01:01:41,800 --> 01:01:45,000
Wow, fuck you.
And here's the thing because the

1051
01:01:45,000 --> 01:01:47,700
Osage tribe members could tell
that these investigators didn't

1052
01:01:47,700 --> 01:01:50,400
like them.
Why would you feel Pell to go

1053
01:01:50,400 --> 01:01:52,100
out on a limb to talk to these
people.

1054
01:01:52,200 --> 01:01:55,000
When anybody who talks the law
enforcement is literally getting

1055
01:01:55,000 --> 01:01:57,400
murdered like the next Market
day.

1056
01:01:58,000 --> 01:02:01,200
But you imagine you have paid
three hundred thousand dollars

1057
01:02:01,200 --> 01:02:03,900
for these people do an
investigation about and they're

1058
01:02:03,900 --> 01:02:11,200
calling you lazy and entitled.
I like okay you can go right?

1059
01:02:11,200 --> 01:02:13,800
Give me my money back.
White tells Hoover these are who

1060
01:02:13,800 --> 01:02:18,300
I want and everybody said was
that a coded message that said

1061
01:02:18,500 --> 01:02:21,900
proceed under cover immediately
reporting to agent in charge.

1062
01:02:21,900 --> 01:02:26,000
Tom white the group, all slipped
into town separately and under

1063
01:02:26,000 --> 01:02:27,800
the radar with assumed
identities.

1064
01:02:28,300 --> 01:02:30,600
Two of them showed up at will
actually want.

1065
01:02:30,600 --> 01:02:35,100
He was one of like a quiet
elderly Cattleman from Texas who

1066
01:02:35,500 --> 01:02:39,000
was going to become friends with
William hail The man who looks

1067
01:02:39,000 --> 01:02:41,700
like an insurance agent.
Open up an insurance business

1068
01:02:41,700 --> 01:02:43,000
in.
Downtown Fairfax.

1069
01:02:43,000 --> 01:02:46,000
And he'd go door-to-door
specifically, two suspects house

1070
01:02:46,000 --> 01:02:49,000
has to go.
Meet them agent Reynolds arrived

1071
01:02:49,000 --> 01:02:53,400
as a medicine, man searching for
his long-lost Osage relative.

1072
01:02:53,400 --> 01:02:57,400
Yeah, Ryan attended tribal,
Gatherings made friends with

1073
01:02:57,500 --> 01:03:00,400
locals who told him things that
they definitely were never going

1074
01:03:00,400 --> 01:03:04,900
to tell white man.
When white arrived with the

1075
01:03:04,900 --> 01:03:10,600
other two, this was also the
beginning of the FBI wearing the

1076
01:03:10,600 --> 01:03:13,700
black soot Black, Tie, shiny
shoes.

1077
01:03:13,900 --> 01:03:19,200
So that's how so white Smith and
burger show up to town.

1078
01:03:19,200 --> 01:03:22,000
So they they come with this
appearance.

1079
01:03:22,000 --> 01:03:25,800
So everybody knows where you
guys investigating.

1080
01:03:26,000 --> 01:03:29,100
Yeah, the four other guys show
up working in the oil fields and

1081
01:03:29,100 --> 01:03:33,400
I just looked in the regular
Ranch in and I just like Other

1082
01:03:33,400 --> 01:03:36,500
guys, they re set up their shops
there before these guys even

1083
01:03:36,500 --> 01:03:41,000
came there and they got they got
their information already.

1084
01:03:41,100 --> 01:03:44,400
Okay, cool.
I mean this was done very well.

1085
01:03:44,400 --> 01:03:45,900
Yeah, yeah, it's awesome.
Okay.

1086
01:03:45,900 --> 01:03:50,000
I like it.
So, the first thing that White

1087
01:03:50,000 --> 01:03:53,000
and the other two agents, we're
like go there.

1088
01:03:53,000 --> 01:03:56,400
Like where do we start?
Well, first thing is they go

1089
01:03:56,400 --> 01:03:59,600
check the justice of the peace.
Anna's inquest records are gone,

1090
01:03:59,600 --> 01:04:02,800
stolen.
None of Anna's evidence had been

1091
01:04:02,800 --> 01:04:03,600
saved.
Saved.

1092
01:04:03,600 --> 01:04:07,100
Literally, the only thing that
was left was that the Undertaker

1093
01:04:07,100 --> 01:04:10,600
had kept her skull because they
had exhumed her body at one

1094
01:04:10,600 --> 01:04:15,300
point.
And the showing Brothers, the

1095
01:04:15,300 --> 01:04:20,300
two medical doctors in town had
like, literally chopped up her

1096
01:04:20,300 --> 01:04:23,900
brain to try and find a tiny
bullet in it.

1097
01:04:25,000 --> 01:04:27,900
So the Undertaker was like, I'm
just gonna keep this skull here.

1098
01:04:28,200 --> 01:04:30,500
Yeah, they entered the rest of
her.

1099
01:04:30,700 --> 01:04:33,600
This was useful though because
he was able to See what had

1100
01:04:33,600 --> 01:04:35,800
happened.
And he came to the same.

1101
01:04:37,000 --> 01:04:40,500
Conclusion as the initial
inquest her, there was no exit

1102
01:04:40,500 --> 01:04:42,700
wound.
That bullet should have been in

1103
01:04:42,700 --> 01:04:45,900
there, so we do something.
Find the hammer, found the

1104
01:04:45,900 --> 01:04:47,900
bullet from Anna.
So they stopped at the bring for

1105
01:04:47,900 --> 01:04:49,700
no reason less.
What they went back and looked

1106
01:04:49,700 --> 01:04:55,800
at it again, but he was just
like, no this what you like, he

1107
01:04:55,800 --> 01:04:57,300
spoke to the Justice.
He was like what you said

1108
01:04:57,300 --> 01:04:59,800
originally was right there.
Should have been a bullet in her

1109
01:04:59,800 --> 01:05:03,500
brain, mmm.
And that meant that one of the

1110
01:05:03,500 --> 01:05:06,400
first people who were there at
that inquest.

1111
01:05:06,800 --> 01:05:11,300
Probably took it.
In fact, they went and they

1112
01:05:11,300 --> 01:05:15,400
spoke to the show and brothers
and they were like, we do know.

1113
01:05:15,900 --> 01:05:17,900
We don't like you.
Yeah.

1114
01:05:19,200 --> 01:05:21,300
It's very obvious that they're
involved at this point.

1115
01:05:21,300 --> 01:05:25,600
Yeah, there was so much hearsay
and that original those 50

1116
01:05:25,600 --> 01:05:27,700
privatized.
That wiped is just like, you

1117
01:05:27,707 --> 01:05:29,800
know what?
I'm gonna interview everybody on

1118
01:05:29,800 --> 01:05:32,000
my own your guys are going to
help me.

1119
01:05:32,000 --> 01:05:34,900
We're going to check out all
their Alibis one by one agent

1120
01:05:34,900 --> 01:05:36,500
Burger helped him with this
together.

1121
01:05:36,500 --> 01:05:40,000
They ruled out.
Most all of the people that the

1122
01:05:40,100 --> 01:05:43,100
Eyes left as Witnesses,
including Anna's ex-husband,

1123
01:05:43,600 --> 01:05:49,000
when they looked into the
situation was that, oh, Des

1124
01:05:49,000 --> 01:05:51,200
Browne was with a woman in
another city.

1125
01:05:51,200 --> 01:05:55,000
And that was accurate.
They were divorced.

1126
01:05:55,000 --> 01:05:56,700
He was allowed to be out there.
Slut right.

1127
01:05:56,700 --> 01:05:57,500
Right.
Right, right.

1128
01:05:57,500 --> 01:06:01,200
Yeah.
Do you think he was out there?

1129
01:06:01,200 --> 01:06:04,000
You know, meet ladies, if living
is best?

1130
01:06:04,000 --> 01:06:06,600
Like, they looked into the rumor
that and I had been killed by

1131
01:06:06,600 --> 01:06:09,100
the girlfriend of someone.
She was having an affair with

1132
01:06:10,500 --> 01:06:13,700
what they realized through doing
that investigation was that the

1133
01:06:13,700 --> 01:06:16,100
private eyes had written down
everything that everybody told

1134
01:06:16,100 --> 01:06:21,200
them and white determined.
Oh some of this is just straight

1135
01:06:21,200 --> 01:06:23,400
lies.
This is manufactured to

1136
01:06:23,400 --> 01:06:25,500
specifically throw people off.
Hmm.

1137
01:06:27,500 --> 01:06:29,300
J.
Edgar Hoover also helped a

1138
01:06:29,308 --> 01:06:31,600
little bit from DC.
He actually demanded daily

1139
01:06:31,600 --> 01:06:34,600
reports.
So they descent daily coated

1140
01:06:34,600 --> 01:06:39,300
telegrams to him to DC, but he
was just like, there's a white

1141
01:06:39,300 --> 01:06:42,200
woman you have listed here.
Her name is Nisha, Kenny and

1142
01:06:42,200 --> 01:06:45,900
she's married to an Osage, man.
And I think she's part of this

1143
01:06:45,900 --> 01:06:49,400
conspiracy Kenny had a history
of mental illness issues and she

1144
01:06:49,400 --> 01:06:52,200
believes she was possessed and
had tried to kill a local

1145
01:06:52,200 --> 01:06:55,700
attorney, but Hoover had
interviewed her twice and even

1146
01:06:55,700 --> 01:06:57,500
had a government expert on
Mental Health.

1147
01:06:57,500 --> 01:07:00,100
Evaluate her.
They realize they were like,

1148
01:07:00,100 --> 01:07:02,900
she's a bit paranoid, but she's
very perceptive.

1149
01:07:03,400 --> 01:07:06,500
So while she'll make a terrible
witness, she will be able to

1150
01:07:06,500 --> 01:07:10,900
help us with the leads, hmm?
Okay, Hoover also pointed out

1151
01:07:10,900 --> 01:07:20,700
that aw Comstock that Guardian.
Was not the worst person, he had

1152
01:07:20,700 --> 01:07:25,300
an issue like they had real beef
because Comstock had criticized

1153
01:07:25,300 --> 01:07:29,500
him to the bureau and threatened
to turn Senator Curtis against

1154
01:07:29,500 --> 01:07:35,600
Hoover.
So initially Hoover was not on

1155
01:07:35,600 --> 01:07:38,300
board with Comstock being a part
of this, right, right.

1156
01:07:38,300 --> 01:07:41,800
White was just like he was
showing up giving us a little

1157
01:07:41,800 --> 01:07:45,700
bit of information then hiding
again because Comstock realized

1158
01:07:45,700 --> 01:07:48,000
that this was real.
Real deal.

1159
01:07:48,000 --> 01:07:50,900
People are still Dying by the
end of July.

1160
01:07:50,900 --> 01:07:53,600
White begins looking into
brianburkhardt Molly's

1161
01:07:53,600 --> 01:07:55,900
brother-in-law.
The last person who'd seen

1162
01:07:55,900 --> 01:07:59,500
alive.
Anybody need a refresher.

1163
01:07:59,500 --> 01:08:04,300
He swore that he took Ana home
between 4:30 and 5:00 p.m. and

1164
01:08:04,300 --> 01:08:07,700
then gone into Fairfax to see a
show with William Hale and his

1165
01:08:07,700 --> 01:08:10,900
brother Ernest and two, other
family members, and aunt, and

1166
01:08:10,900 --> 01:08:13,500
uncle.
This seemed like a solid Alibi.

1167
01:08:13,900 --> 01:08:17,700
So agent Burger traveled to
Brian's family's house in

1168
01:08:17,700 --> 01:08:21,399
Northern Texas, which is
Campbell, Texas, and lo and

1169
01:08:21,399 --> 01:08:25,500
behold, William Hale had also
grown up near Campbell Texas to

1170
01:08:25,600 --> 01:08:30,300
oh wow, honey.
When they got when Burger got to

1171
01:08:30,300 --> 01:08:34,100
Campbells family's house, sorry
to the house.

1172
01:08:34,100 --> 01:08:38,300
And in Campbell Ryan's Uncle
wasn't there but his aunt was

1173
01:08:38,300 --> 01:08:43,100
there and she launched into an
entire tirade about how Earnest

1174
01:08:43,100 --> 01:08:45,800
had married.
One of those red Millionaires

1175
01:08:45,800 --> 01:08:49,899
and she didn't like it, she was
in the middle of this crazy

1176
01:08:49,899 --> 01:08:54,600
conversation with agent burger
and Brian's.

1177
01:08:54,600 --> 01:08:58,100
Uncle comes in.
And is like Brian was with us.

1178
01:08:58,100 --> 01:09:02,300
Y'all need to leave.
Uh-huh.

1179
01:09:03,899 --> 01:09:06,200
Excuse me sir.
But how the hell you know, how

1180
01:09:06,200 --> 01:09:08,800
do you know what I'm here for?
Yep, he was just like, listen

1181
01:09:08,800 --> 01:09:10,700
stop.
He was like Brian was with us.

1182
01:09:10,899 --> 01:09:13,600
You'll need to look into this.
He has an alibi.

1183
01:09:13,600 --> 01:09:14,800
Y'all need to get out of my
house.

1184
01:09:15,000 --> 01:09:18,500
Hmm, I don't trust, his Alibi is
not very trustworthy.

1185
01:09:18,500 --> 01:09:22,700
I don't think so either.
So it's August of 1925, white

1186
01:09:22,700 --> 01:09:25,500
undercover agents.
Go into the town of Ralston.

1187
01:09:26,000 --> 01:09:29,899
There was an old lead that Anna
had been spotted by a group of

1188
01:09:29,899 --> 01:09:31,100
white.
Men who have been sitting

1189
01:09:31,100 --> 01:09:35,000
outside of a hotel in Ralston on
Main Street, previous detectives

1190
01:09:35,000 --> 01:09:37,200
had spoken to the group of men
and they were like, we have no

1191
01:09:37,200 --> 01:09:41,800
idea what you're talking about.
they track down an old man, who

1192
01:09:41,800 --> 01:09:45,000
was originally kind of worried
at them first, but once he

1193
01:09:45,000 --> 01:09:48,100
realized that they were legit,
he was like, oh yeah bat he was

1194
01:09:48,100 --> 01:09:53,300
like I was there and I
definitely did talk to Anna.

1195
01:09:53,800 --> 01:09:56,900
In fact, I know I talked to her
because I was like, hey, Annie

1196
01:09:59,000 --> 01:10:03,100
And he said that she wasn't
slumped over drunk and she was

1197
01:10:03,100 --> 01:10:06,200
in the car with brianburkhardt
and Bryant was driving.

1198
01:10:06,400 --> 01:10:09,700
He was definitely not in Fairfax
because he was in Ralston at

1199
01:10:09,700 --> 01:10:13,300
like midnight.
Hmm interesting.

1200
01:10:13,500 --> 01:10:16,000
There were other Witnesses who
confirmed that Brian was driving

1201
01:10:16,000 --> 01:10:20,000
the car too and this was the
first kind of crack and

1202
01:10:20,000 --> 01:10:24,500
brianburkhardt sli's there was
no way he was both in Fairfax

1203
01:10:24,500 --> 01:10:27,500
and Ralston at the same time.
No you're not a time traveler

1204
01:10:27,500 --> 01:10:30,100
sir.
So It follows this lead and he

1205
01:10:30,100 --> 01:10:33,100
follows agent Burgers.
Network of informants and be

1206
01:10:33,300 --> 01:10:37,000
they kind of create a timeline.
So Brian and Anna had stopped at

1207
01:10:37,000 --> 01:10:40,400
a speakeasy in Ralston and
stayed there until 10 p.m. then

1208
01:10:40,400 --> 01:10:42,100
they headed to another
underground bar.

1209
01:10:42,100 --> 01:10:46,300
A couple miles north of Fairfax
Brian's Uncle from Campbell was

1210
01:10:46,300 --> 01:10:51,400
spotted with them that night but
he left before they left that

1211
01:10:51,400 --> 01:10:56,600
bar at 1 a.m. then they kind of
disappear for about two hours

1212
01:10:57,900 --> 01:11:00,100
and other People who he
interviewed him.

1213
01:11:00,100 --> 01:11:04,500
Ralston said that they saw Brian
Anna and a third man.

1214
01:11:04,500 --> 01:11:11,000
They didn't know at about 3 a.m.
In fact, someone who knew Brian

1215
01:11:11,500 --> 01:11:15,300
said that she heard him get out
of a car.

1216
01:11:16,100 --> 01:11:20,300
They were a like in Fairfax and
he was yelling at Anna to get

1217
01:11:20,300 --> 01:11:23,400
back in the car.
That's the last time.

1218
01:11:23,400 --> 01:11:28,200
They anybody in Ralston or
Fairfax are hurt Anna, huh?

1219
01:11:29,100 --> 01:11:32,100
And actually he found out from
these witnesses that after they

1220
01:11:32,100 --> 01:11:35,500
initially had, told that stuff
to the private eyes.

1221
01:11:36,000 --> 01:11:38,500
Someone had come around and paid
everybody off.

1222
01:11:40,500 --> 01:11:44,100
Interesting.
So at the end of the summer now,

1223
01:11:44,600 --> 01:11:48,400
White's like there's definitely
a mole in this investigation.

1224
01:11:48,800 --> 01:11:52,200
One of his agents have been
questioning a local like crappy

1225
01:11:52,200 --> 01:11:55,900
attorney and the attorney knew a
lot about the case, the attorney

1226
01:11:55,900 --> 01:11:59,500
was like, oh, I've seen part of
the Bureau reports and I can see

1227
01:11:59,500 --> 01:12:02,800
more of them if I want to.
This wasn't really anything new

1228
01:12:02,800 --> 01:12:06,100
in the bureau's past breach has
happened a lot, but the problem

1229
01:12:06,100 --> 01:12:09,200
is this kind of a breach had was
going to get a lot of people

1230
01:12:09,200 --> 01:12:09,700
killed.
Yeah.

1231
01:12:09,700 --> 01:12:12,700
Like Literally as soon as
someone says they have

1232
01:12:12,700 --> 01:12:15,700
information, about this case,
they go dying in the next day.

1233
01:12:17,200 --> 01:12:21,700
On top of that, two of the
previous Burns detectives, try

1234
01:12:21,700 --> 01:12:28,300
to expose one of burgers,
informants, Kelsey Morrison and

1235
01:12:28,300 --> 01:12:35,400
they lied and told local PD that
Kelsey Morrison had committed a

1236
01:12:35,400 --> 01:12:39,700
robbery and he hadn't.
So, Kelsey gets pulled into

1237
01:12:39,700 --> 01:12:43,200
local PD.
Ancient Burger reports that the

1238
01:12:43,200 --> 01:12:46,200
local law men are trying to mess
up their investigation.

1239
01:12:46,900 --> 01:12:50,500
After Morrison is released, he
super freaked out and is like

1240
01:12:50,600 --> 01:12:52,500
can you get these guys before
they kill me?

1241
01:12:52,700 --> 01:12:56,100
No agent Burgers.
Like, you need to lay low, watch

1242
01:12:56,100 --> 01:13:00,400
out for traps.
Like if this was so like, when I

1243
01:13:00,400 --> 01:13:04,300
say that the, the identities of
those four men who were

1244
01:13:04,300 --> 01:13:08,700
undercover were so important,
white never met with them

1245
01:13:08,700 --> 01:13:12,200
anywhere near Fairfax, and it
was never during the day, they

1246
01:13:12,200 --> 01:13:17,000
met in the middle of the
countryside at night to exchange

1247
01:13:17,000 --> 01:13:19,700
information.
They all were told to always

1248
01:13:19,700 --> 01:13:21,900
carry their weapons.
Make sure you aren't being

1249
01:13:21,900 --> 01:13:24,200
followed.
In case your cover gets blown,

1250
01:13:24,200 --> 01:13:26,000
you need to be able to defend
yourself, right?

1251
01:13:26,000 --> 01:13:29,100
Right.
So that white looks into the

1252
01:13:29,100 --> 01:13:32,700
private eye who hail hired in
1921 our boy.

1253
01:13:32,700 --> 01:13:36,900
Pike, the one who you know said
that he just quit and left town.

1254
01:13:36,900 --> 01:13:40,500
Yeah, right.
Well, Why it's walking around

1255
01:13:40,500 --> 01:13:42,600
town one.
They're all like kind of just

1256
01:13:42,600 --> 01:13:47,100
doing the regular thing.
Agent Burger is just a random

1257
01:13:47,100 --> 01:13:50,800
guy walks up to him and it's
just like Pike and I work

1258
01:13:50,800 --> 01:13:52,700
together.
Pike has something he wants to

1259
01:13:52,708 --> 01:13:55,500
tell you, but he's not going to
tell you about it.

1260
01:13:56,400 --> 01:13:59,900
Unless you pay him very well.
Pike.

1261
01:13:59,900 --> 01:14:05,900
He says Pike knows the identity
of the third man who was with

1262
01:14:05,900 --> 01:14:12,900
Anna at 3:00 before she died.
Of course, Asian Burgers.

1263
01:14:12,900 --> 01:14:16,600
Like I do want to let you know,
you are attempting to extort the

1264
01:14:16,600 --> 01:14:18,400
federal government right now.
Yeah.

1265
01:14:19,100 --> 01:14:21,400
You should just have him come to
us and talk to us.

1266
01:14:21,400 --> 01:14:26,200
We could protect him and the
guys like yeah, no.

1267
01:14:27,200 --> 01:14:30,400
So they launched their own
investigation to find Pike and

1268
01:14:30,400 --> 01:14:33,700
they do of course he did because
he gets arrested commit and

1269
01:14:33,700 --> 01:14:36,600
highway robbery and Tulsa
Oklahoma, dude.

1270
01:14:36,600 --> 01:14:40,500
Come on.
So when to attempt to get like a

1271
01:14:40,500 --> 01:14:46,700
lesser, Sentence.
Hike tells them that there was a

1272
01:14:46,708 --> 01:14:50,400
local Gambler who had been with
the three of them, but the

1273
01:14:50,400 --> 01:14:54,100
Gambler had gone home before the
third man arrived.

1274
01:14:54,100 --> 01:14:57,000
So this was a useless lead from
Pike.

1275
01:14:57,000 --> 01:15:02,800
Go to jail, don't collect $200.
Yeah, but he was so pretty much

1276
01:15:02,800 --> 01:15:04,300
Pike.
Gave them another person they

1277
01:15:04,300 --> 01:15:06,800
hung out with but not the one
they wanted.

1278
01:15:06,800 --> 01:15:08,700
Then why did he say that?
He had information?

1279
01:15:08,700 --> 01:15:10,300
You just want the money, these
won the money.

1280
01:15:10,300 --> 01:15:13,200
He was just trying to Extort
them dumbass.

1281
01:15:13,200 --> 01:15:16,400
Okay now they did learn
something from Pike though.

1282
01:15:16,900 --> 01:15:18,600
The three of them.
Put a lot of pressure on Pike

1283
01:15:18,600 --> 01:15:22,500
and he went I wasn't hired to
find, Anna's killer.

1284
01:15:23,500 --> 01:15:26,000
I was hired to conceal.
Where Brian was that night?

1285
01:15:27,500 --> 01:15:31,300
I was hired to falsify evidence.
I was hired to create for fake

1286
01:15:31,300 --> 01:15:36,100
Witnesses and to manufacture an
alibi for brianburkhardt.

1287
01:15:36,200 --> 01:15:41,700
Ha ha ha ha.
And he said This all came from

1288
01:15:41,700 --> 01:15:43,700
William hail.
Fuck you.

1289
01:15:44,700 --> 01:15:47,000
Okay.
Now he'll head and said,

1290
01:15:47,000 --> 01:15:50,100
directly that Brian was the
killer just that he needed.

1291
01:15:50,100 --> 01:15:52,000
Brian to be clean.
Mmm.

1292
01:15:52,600 --> 01:15:54,900
That's his nephew.
He's looking out for his family.

1293
01:15:56,100 --> 01:15:58,800
It was a big deal though because
literally everybody in this

1294
01:15:58,800 --> 01:16:00,400
town, trusted.
William hail.

1295
01:16:01,100 --> 01:16:06,500
And now, Tom white has evidence
that William Hale is big bad

1296
01:16:06,500 --> 01:16:10,100
guy.
So yeah he'll had well Not only

1297
01:16:10,100 --> 01:16:13,300
that he'd been lying to Molly
for four years.

1298
01:16:15,700 --> 01:16:20,300
So, they asked him.
Is Hale involved?

1299
01:16:20,300 --> 01:16:22,300
Or is he just covering for his
family?

1300
01:16:24,000 --> 01:16:28,400
Pike isn't sure, but he's just
like Sometimes when I would meet

1301
01:16:28,400 --> 01:16:34,400
with hail Brian was there and so
was Ernest, Molly's husband?

1302
01:16:38,200 --> 01:16:41,200
Ernest Burkhart was in on this
from the jump.

1303
01:16:41,200 --> 01:16:43,000
So he must have been a third
person that was there.

1304
01:16:43,000 --> 01:16:47,900
Then we'll see at this point.
It's very obvious to the

1305
01:16:47,900 --> 01:16:49,800
investigators that the Burkhart
family is part of this

1306
01:16:49,800 --> 01:16:53,500
conspiracy and he's like.
Did Bill Smith figured this out?

1307
01:16:53,700 --> 01:16:56,300
Is that why he got blown up?
Because that was his

1308
01:16:56,300 --> 01:16:59,500
brother-in-law, you know, they
were related through marriage,

1309
01:16:59,500 --> 01:17:01,700
right?
Smith hadn't, covered that lizzi

1310
01:17:01,700 --> 01:17:04,700
had been poisoned and he was
following the trail related to

1311
01:17:04,700 --> 01:17:09,100
the Head Right money.
Remember, I told you that bill

1312
01:17:09,100 --> 01:17:11,500
would wake up and start
panicking that like he said

1313
01:17:11,500 --> 01:17:12,500
something.
Yeah.

1314
01:17:13,900 --> 01:17:18,000
Shortly before build died, James
and David shown.

1315
01:17:18,500 --> 01:17:25,300
Thus doctors called bills
attorney and had him come to the

1316
01:17:25,300 --> 01:17:31,000
hospital.
Why way specifically met with

1317
01:17:31,000 --> 01:17:32,600
Bill and made?
Sure.

1318
01:17:32,600 --> 01:17:37,300
There were no nurses around.
Tom white is very suspicious of

1319
01:17:37,300 --> 01:17:40,600
the shown Brothers.
At this point, you should be, he

1320
01:17:40,600 --> 01:17:43,000
was already suspicious because
of that missing bullet.

1321
01:17:44,200 --> 01:17:46,500
And he questioned, everybody
who'd been in the room.

1322
01:17:47,000 --> 01:17:49,500
The doctor said they called
those lawyer hoping that he

1323
01:17:49,500 --> 01:17:51,200
would tell them who was
attacked.

1324
01:17:51,300 --> 01:17:53,600
But Tom was like why don't you
call Justice of the Peace or

1325
01:17:53,600 --> 01:17:55,100
somebody who could have arrested
somebody?

1326
01:17:55,100 --> 01:17:56,800
Yeah, they like it didn't
matter.

1327
01:17:56,800 --> 01:18:03,900
Bill didn't say anything.
He didn't name his Killers but

1328
01:18:03,900 --> 01:18:06,700
what he did tell us attorney was
that he only had two enemies in

1329
01:18:06,700 --> 01:18:10,900
this world.
William K hail the king of Osa

1330
01:18:10,900 --> 01:18:13,700
chills and his nephew Ernest.
Becker.

1331
01:18:15,700 --> 01:18:19,100
Okay.
Now, Tom, wait, Tom and his

1332
01:18:19,100 --> 01:18:21,600
agents determined that the shown
Brothers had orchestrated that

1333
01:18:21,600 --> 01:18:26,100
kneeling for their own purposes.
The lawyer had been called in to

1334
01:18:26,100 --> 01:18:28,900
bring paperwork and that
paperwork.

1335
01:18:29,000 --> 01:18:32,000
They got built a sign when he
was just Lucid enough.

1336
01:18:33,200 --> 01:18:37,500
Allowing his brother to be
appointed to his wife's estate.

1337
01:18:38,500 --> 01:18:46,300
So Rita Rita's had right money.
They had Bill sign it away. but

1338
01:18:46,300 --> 01:18:50,700
the problem was Well, okay, so
this is obviously the first

1339
01:18:50,700 --> 01:18:54,100
direct connection to these
murders being super tied to the

1340
01:18:54,100 --> 01:18:55,100
Head, Right?
Mm-hmm.

1341
01:18:55,400 --> 01:18:57,900
White, look more into it and it
was just corruption on top of

1342
01:18:57,900 --> 01:19:00,200
corruption.
Some of the Guardians had been

1343
01:19:00,200 --> 01:19:02,900
appointed to the Osage tribe
were decent, but most of them

1344
01:19:02,900 --> 01:19:04,800
were just straight up robbing
people of their money.

1345
01:19:05,200 --> 01:19:08,200
Like, he would find out that
like a person be like, hey, I

1346
01:19:08,200 --> 01:19:10,700
want to use my money to buy a
car and the guardian be like,

1347
01:19:10,700 --> 01:19:14,500
bet I'll go get you a car and he
buy the car for about $250 and

1348
01:19:14,500 --> 01:19:18,100
then sell it to his client for
1012 $250.

1349
01:19:18,100 --> 01:19:19,700
Wow.
Eating the thousand dollars

1350
01:19:19,700 --> 01:19:23,200
himself Guardians were getting
kickbacks from the banks that

1351
01:19:23,200 --> 01:19:26,400
held the money stores that they,
that the people shopped at,

1352
01:19:27,200 --> 01:19:32,200
sometimes they would just
outright buy land in the name of

1353
01:19:32,300 --> 01:19:34,600
their clients but it was for
them.

1354
01:19:35,700 --> 01:19:39,900
Hmm.
Even worse the US government was

1355
01:19:39,900 --> 01:19:42,900
looking at these purchases and
going, the Osage people are

1356
01:19:42,900 --> 01:19:46,800
really spending frivolously and
the O's is people are begging

1357
01:19:47,000 --> 01:19:50,800
for like to use their money.
To like bite to build schools,

1358
01:19:50,800 --> 01:19:52,400
right?
They want to do good for a

1359
01:19:52,407 --> 01:19:56,000
community, a government study
actually was launched after this

1360
01:19:56,000 --> 01:20:00,500
whole thing happen and it showed
that those Guardians stole eight

1361
01:20:00,500 --> 01:20:05,200
million dollars from the Osage
people, just in the early 1920s.

1362
01:20:05,200 --> 01:20:10,000
What the fuck?
And all those Guardians were the

1363
01:20:10,000 --> 01:20:13,500
most prominent men in town,
local judges lawyers

1364
01:20:13,500 --> 01:20:15,700
prosecutors.
There was one judge who

1365
01:20:15,700 --> 01:20:19,100
legitimately was telling people,
if you vote for me, I'll make

1366
01:20:19,100 --> 01:20:24,500
sure you get on this Guardian
action, that's sickening.

1367
01:20:26,100 --> 01:20:28,800
Some of the Guardians would
clean out the account and then

1368
01:20:28,800 --> 01:20:31,300
tell their client, you don't
have any more money.

1369
01:20:32,500 --> 01:20:35,300
And just leave the person to
just live in poverty.

1370
01:20:35,500 --> 01:20:39,200
There was one instance where a
guardian let a child die instead

1371
01:20:39,200 --> 01:20:41,800
of giving them money from the
account, what the fuck.

1372
01:20:43,100 --> 01:20:45,500
And the thing is, it wasn't that
the Osage people weren't aware

1373
01:20:45,500 --> 01:20:47,900
of what was happening.
It was just that they were like,

1374
01:20:47,900 --> 01:20:50,800
this is just another way that
the u.s. government is screwing

1375
01:20:50,800 --> 01:20:52,700
us over.
It like that again they couldn't

1376
01:20:52,700 --> 01:20:55,400
do anything about this either
because they were appointed,

1377
01:20:55,900 --> 01:20:57,700
Guardian government Guardians.
Yeah.

1378
01:20:58,800 --> 01:21:01,300
Goes was like this.
This is Christ startling for

1379
01:21:01,300 --> 01:21:05,100
white because He had read a lot
of the same newspaper stories

1380
01:21:05,100 --> 01:21:08,400
and other Americans read was
that the Osage people all had 11

1381
01:21:08,400 --> 01:21:11,700
cars and they all lived in fancy
money and they were all stupid.

1382
01:21:11,700 --> 01:21:12,700
Wealthy.
Yeah.

1383
01:21:12,700 --> 01:21:15,300
Beloved car is not all my name.
Well, they all right.

1384
01:21:15,300 --> 01:21:17,000
Yeah, they're all my name but
guess what?

1385
01:21:17,000 --> 01:21:19,900
I don't drive any and his cousin
and uncle.

1386
01:21:19,900 --> 01:21:21,700
Yeah.
Everybody else has a car.

1387
01:21:21,900 --> 01:21:23,700
I don't have a car.
Exactly.

1388
01:21:23,800 --> 01:21:28,100
God.
So what we learned was that

1389
01:21:29,200 --> 01:21:31,700
people felt helpless and that
they had nobody on their side

1390
01:21:31,700 --> 01:21:36,500
which was why they fell.
Ain't no real desire to talk to

1391
01:21:36,500 --> 01:21:38,300
anybody who came to help him
about this.

1392
01:21:39,500 --> 01:21:43,500
So, in September of 1925, the
undercover insurance agent stops

1393
01:21:43,500 --> 01:21:46,200
at a gas station in Fairfax and
starts talking to a woman who

1394
01:21:46,200 --> 01:21:48,900
worked there.
He's like, hey, I've been here

1395
01:21:48,900 --> 01:21:52,200
for a couple months and I think
I want to buy a house and the

1396
01:21:52,200 --> 01:21:54,400
lady is just like, oh yeah.
Well you got to talk to Bill

1397
01:21:54,400 --> 01:21:55,600
hail.
He owns everything here.

1398
01:21:56,400 --> 01:21:59,300
She said that she had brought
her home from Hale and she lived

1399
01:21:59,300 --> 01:22:02,200
pretty close to him.
And that one night, thousands of

1400
01:22:02,200 --> 01:22:06,000
Acres of Bill's land had been
set on fire and it was meant to

1401
01:22:06,000 --> 01:22:09,200
seem like it was for other
reasons but she knew the real

1402
01:22:09,200 --> 01:22:13,100
reason and the real reason was
that bill hail wanted insurance

1403
01:22:13,100 --> 01:22:15,500
money.
And in fact he had collected 30

1404
01:22:15,500 --> 01:22:19,200
thousand dollars from that
stretch of land being burned.

1405
01:22:22,800 --> 01:22:26,800
White's going to look in the
helm or remember Henry Rowan.

1406
01:22:27,500 --> 01:22:30,300
Yeah.
Who'd been shot in the head

1407
01:22:30,300 --> 01:22:32,500
twice and found in his car.
He's Frozen.

1408
01:22:32,600 --> 01:22:34,600
Yep.
Well Bill.

1409
01:22:34,600 --> 01:22:38,600
Hail made this big to-do about
how he and Henry Rowan were best

1410
01:22:38,600 --> 01:22:43,900
friends and that Rowan had been
kind of cheated by his guardian

1411
01:22:43,900 --> 01:22:48,600
and didn't have any money.
And so, Bill Hale had given him

1412
01:22:49,000 --> 01:22:52,800
over twelve thousand dollars
because they were such good

1413
01:22:52,800 --> 01:22:55,300
friends.
I don't give that kind of money

1414
01:22:55,300 --> 01:23:00,200
to my friends.
Anyway, well just before Rowan

1415
01:23:00,200 --> 01:23:03,600
died.
There was an insurance policy

1416
01:23:03,600 --> 01:23:06,700
that was taken out on his life
25,000 dollars.

1417
01:23:08,000 --> 01:23:12,500
And Bill was the beneficiary, of
course you was, and, of course,

1418
01:23:12,500 --> 01:23:15,000
right after that, Ron ended up
with a bullet in his head.

1419
01:23:15,200 --> 01:23:17,700
But no one had even interviewed
bill as a suspect.

1420
01:23:18,500 --> 01:23:22,000
And so, white track down the
insurance agent, who told a very

1421
01:23:22,000 --> 01:23:24,600
different story than Hale had
tone of hounds book.

1422
01:23:24,600 --> 01:23:27,000
Remember because bills, like,
we're such good friends.

1423
01:23:27,000 --> 01:23:30,200
He listed me because I was the
last person, you know, they were

1424
01:23:30,200 --> 01:23:32,200
like, well, why not?
His wife was like, oh, that's

1425
01:23:32,200 --> 01:23:35,100
because his wife was cheating on
him with somebody else of

1426
01:23:35,100 --> 01:23:40,300
course, which was true, but he
was like he just didn't want her

1427
01:23:40,300 --> 01:23:43,800
to have any of the money but
beside the point what the

1428
01:23:43,800 --> 01:23:48,500
insurance agent said was that
Hale had pushed for the policy

1429
01:23:48,900 --> 01:23:51,400
and the insurance agent was like
well most people only need about

1430
01:23:51,400 --> 01:23:56,400
10,000 dollars Max especially
indigenous people because once

1431
01:23:56,400 --> 01:24:04,200
the town got wind of all that
money, it became very expensive

1432
01:24:04,200 --> 01:24:07,700
to bury indigenous people and
the area of course and they I

1433
01:24:07,708 --> 01:24:12,400
jacked up the price of funerals
for the Osage tribes members to

1434
01:24:12,400 --> 01:24:14,400
the tune of roughly 8,000
dollars.

1435
01:24:14,600 --> 01:24:19,400
That's a lot of money.
Now, that's way too much money

1436
01:24:19,400 --> 01:24:22,200
back then for a funeral.
Yeah, yeah.

1437
01:24:23,400 --> 01:24:26,800
So, the typical amount that they
would give for something like

1438
01:24:26,800 --> 01:24:29,500
that was about 10 grand for an
indigenous person to pay for

1439
01:24:29,500 --> 01:24:32,100
their funeral, things of that
nature, you know, help the

1440
01:24:32,100 --> 01:24:34,000
family out a little bit.
I mean, they would have been

1441
01:24:34,000 --> 01:24:36,300
fine because eventually the head
right money would come in the

1442
01:24:36,300 --> 01:24:38,400
next couple of months, and the
family would be able to do what

1443
01:24:38,400 --> 01:24:40,000
they need to do.
Right, right.

1444
01:24:40,200 --> 01:24:45,000
Hale says, he'll pushes the
policy from 10,000 to 25,000

1445
01:24:45,300 --> 01:24:48,500
saying that Rowan owned him
money white, didn't think that,

1446
01:24:48,500 --> 01:24:52,500
that was real.
Because if it was real all Hill

1447
01:24:52,500 --> 01:24:57,100
would have had, Do was present
proof of that debt to the Rowan

1448
01:24:57,100 --> 01:25:00,300
estate, and it would have been
paid back because that money is

1449
01:25:00,300 --> 01:25:08,000
still dropping into an account.
It's possible that Rowan never

1450
01:25:08,000 --> 01:25:10,600
even knew that this policy was
taken out on his life.

1451
01:25:11,800 --> 01:25:17,800
I'm Imagine and after Rowan's
funeral, they tried to pin the

1452
01:25:17,800 --> 01:25:20,900
murder on the man who had been
sleeping with his wife.

1453
01:25:21,800 --> 01:25:26,000
And in fact, hail like was like
you need to lead run and

1454
01:25:26,000 --> 01:25:29,200
actually the guy was like, know
if I run people are going to

1455
01:25:29,208 --> 01:25:30,300
think.
I did it.

1456
01:25:30,500 --> 01:25:32,500
He was right.
Yeah.

1457
01:25:32,500 --> 01:25:34,900
I mean yeah.
You were going to you did it

1458
01:25:34,900 --> 01:25:37,600
real.
He'll also visited Rowan's Widow

1459
01:25:37,900 --> 01:25:42,700
and left a bottle of whiskey for
her and she need to supposed to

1460
01:25:42,700 --> 01:25:45,500
have it because she was Like
think that's poison.

1461
01:25:45,500 --> 01:25:49,100
Yes, it was.
I guarantee you, it was fucking

1462
01:25:49,100 --> 01:25:52,900
poison white discovered that
Hale had even tried to buy

1463
01:25:53,100 --> 01:25:58,100
Rowan's head right previously,
but that literally went against

1464
01:25:58,500 --> 01:26:02,100
the government's ruling, there
was no way you could sell your

1465
01:26:02,100 --> 01:26:03,900
own head, right?
But the only way it could Pat be

1466
01:26:03,900 --> 01:26:05,700
passed down.
Was through inheritance or like

1467
01:26:05,700 --> 01:26:09,000
dual will white followed the
head rates and realized that

1468
01:26:09,000 --> 01:26:12,000
these were all being slowly
trickling back to Molly

1469
01:26:12,000 --> 01:26:15,700
Burkhardt and if she It would go
to her children and her husband,

1470
01:26:16,300 --> 01:26:20,300
Ernest Burkhart, ours.
Just get the fuck out of here.

1471
01:26:20,400 --> 01:26:24,400
You get hers out of this man has
money went to Lizzie.

1472
01:26:24,800 --> 01:26:27,500
Lizzie's money was dispersed
back to her kids when she died

1473
01:26:27,800 --> 01:26:29,900
Rita's.
Money was actually supposed to

1474
01:26:29,900 --> 01:26:34,000
go to Mali to the killer hadn't
intended for Bill, to outlive

1475
01:26:34,000 --> 01:26:38,800
Rita, which is why they had to
go and have him have Bill filed

1476
01:26:38,800 --> 01:26:40,800
that document before he died.
Right.

1477
01:26:40,800 --> 01:26:43,300
Right.
But the bulk of all of these had

1478
01:26:43,300 --> 01:26:46,600
rights Now, belong to Molly.
Burkhardt she's received be

1479
01:26:46,600 --> 01:26:52,500
receiving roughly four or five
times her normal allotment girl.

1480
01:26:53,700 --> 01:26:56,700
Watch out, they looked into,
it's got Mathis.

1481
01:26:56,700 --> 01:26:59,700
Who was the guardian of both
Anna Brown and Lizzie in the

1482
01:26:59,700 --> 01:27:04,500
back pocket of hail every bit of
corruption that agent, white

1483
01:27:04,500 --> 01:27:07,800
found in Fairfax had a
connection to William hail, and

1484
01:27:07,800 --> 01:27:09,700
that made it very hard to get
any justice.

1485
01:27:10,100 --> 01:27:14,200
So, in the fall of 25 white told
who Hoover.

1486
01:27:14,800 --> 01:27:18,300
I have to get evidence to put
hail away and his accomplices,

1487
01:27:18,900 --> 01:27:23,600
there was pressure from White's
bosses but also presage pressure

1488
01:27:23,600 --> 01:27:27,000
from the Osage people who were,
like we really appreciate what

1489
01:27:27,000 --> 01:27:28,400
you're doing but we're still
scared.

1490
01:27:28,400 --> 01:27:32,500
Hmm.
White was finally kind of on the

1491
01:27:32,500 --> 01:27:37,400
same line with usage people,
which was that there is no way.

1492
01:27:37,600 --> 01:27:40,200
Any of the corrupt, white
citizens of osich hills were

1493
01:27:40,200 --> 01:27:42,700
going to implicate one of their
own people and murdering

1494
01:27:42,700 --> 01:27:46,000
Indians.
So he turned to The Outlaws

1495
01:27:46,000 --> 01:27:49,900
instead, these men were any less
racist but some of them wanted

1496
01:27:49,900 --> 01:27:53,700
Hale gone too.
He specifically talk to Dick.

1497
01:27:53,700 --> 01:27:57,300
Greg, a well-known Outlaw who
had information, but he didn't

1498
01:27:57,300 --> 01:27:59,600
want to tell it all white met
with him.

1499
01:27:59,600 --> 01:28:02,900
And realized that dick Greg
would easily backstabbed roughly

1500
01:28:02,900 --> 01:28:05,000
anybody, he knew but not
William.

1501
01:28:05,000 --> 01:28:10,800
Hail Greg did however let agent
white know that Hale had met

1502
01:28:10,900 --> 01:28:14,700
with the outlaw out Spencer and
his gang which Greg had been a

1503
01:28:14,700 --> 01:28:20,200
part of in 1922 and that Hale
had offered them two thousand

1504
01:28:20,200 --> 01:28:22,300
dollars to kill Rita and Bill
Smith.

1505
01:28:22,900 --> 01:28:26,300
Al Spencer had declined saying
we're criminals but we're not

1506
01:28:26,300 --> 01:28:29,200
hit men and we're not just going
to murder some innocent lady.

1507
01:28:29,300 --> 01:28:32,800
Yep in her bag.
So white ended up then going to

1508
01:28:32,800 --> 01:28:37,500
Henry grammar the Bootleggers
who Bill visited Just like every

1509
01:28:37,500 --> 01:28:40,600
other witness against Hale,
grammar have been killed shortly

1510
01:28:40,600 --> 01:28:44,000
after Bill died in 1923, there
was a clear sign that if you

1511
01:28:44,000 --> 01:28:46,300
were a business, if you were a
criminal who did business with

1512
01:28:46,300 --> 01:28:49,200
William hail you were going to
die after your business was

1513
01:28:49,200 --> 01:28:53,300
concluded, oof they still had
their other informant Kelsey

1514
01:28:53,300 --> 01:28:58,300
Morrison, who told white really
bad news Beal?

1515
01:28:58,300 --> 01:29:03,700
Hell knows you're onto him.
One of the undercover agents had

1516
01:29:03,700 --> 01:29:07,100
gotten close to Hale.
And when they talked about the

1517
01:29:07,100 --> 01:29:10,100
case, he'll was like, it's all
good.

1518
01:29:10,500 --> 01:29:14,500
I'm bulletproof.
Oh really now sir?

1519
01:29:15,100 --> 01:29:17,700
So at that white was like, okay
we're safe for now, they don't

1520
01:29:17,700 --> 01:29:20,900
think we're a real threat, they
just know that we know about it.

1521
01:29:22,200 --> 01:29:26,200
October of 25 agent white gets a
tip, a prisoner named Bert

1522
01:29:26,200 --> 01:29:29,300
Lawson knew a lot about the
Osage murders.

1523
01:29:29,600 --> 01:29:33,100
So white and Frank Smith go to
Macalester, prison to talk to

1524
01:29:33,100 --> 01:29:37,800
him, Lawson had been a ranch
hand for Bill Smith, and threw

1525
01:29:37,800 --> 01:29:40,800
him had met the rest of the Hale
family, all the brothers and all

1526
01:29:40,800 --> 01:29:43,000
that.
So when Bill Smith and Lawson

1527
01:29:43,000 --> 01:29:47,500
had a falling out, Ernest
Burkhart had gone to Lawson and

1528
01:29:47,500 --> 01:29:50,700
was like, listen, I need you to
kill my brother-in-law, Bill

1529
01:29:50,700 --> 01:29:53,700
Smith.
I'll give you five grand and

1530
01:29:53,700 --> 01:29:56,700
lost them was like listen, it's
not really what I do.

1531
01:29:59,200 --> 01:30:01,700
But then lost and got arrested
and he needed lawyers.

1532
01:30:02,000 --> 01:30:05,600
So he said that he agreed to do
it out of desperation and that

1533
01:30:05,600 --> 01:30:08,300
Ernest, provided him with
nitroglycerin and it even

1534
01:30:08,300 --> 01:30:10,400
dropped him off at Bill's house
to do the deed.

1535
01:30:10,400 --> 01:30:12,500
And then they snuck him back
into the local jail while the

1536
01:30:12,500 --> 01:30:18,000
cops were at the explosion.
On October 24th. 1925 white

1537
01:30:18,000 --> 01:30:20,800
sends a telegram to Hoover
saying, they have a confession

1538
01:30:20,800 --> 01:30:24,300
of the person who set the bomb
Hoover was like bet.

1539
01:30:24,300 --> 01:30:28,100
Congratulations.
This is when Comstock starts

1540
01:30:28,100 --> 01:30:31,100
receiving threats for helping
with the investigation and have

1541
01:30:31,100 --> 01:30:35,000
even found Dynamite planted in
like his windows at his house.

1542
01:30:35,000 --> 01:30:37,000
Like it opened the windows.
Yeah.

1543
01:30:37,200 --> 01:30:41,300
To let the air in and he was
just like there is there's a but

1544
01:30:41,300 --> 01:30:44,400
I know might hear this not good
because a boom stick in my

1545
01:30:44,400 --> 01:30:48,700
window.
So John ran, the UK Jack had

1546
01:30:48,700 --> 01:30:52,700
spoken to Molly's priest and
Molly's priest was like, yeah

1547
01:30:52,700 --> 01:30:55,400
she hasn't been to church in
like a long time but she did

1548
01:30:55,400 --> 01:30:57,700
send me a message saying She was
poisoned.

1549
01:30:58,400 --> 01:31:03,100
And so the priest was told Ren.
I told her don't drink any

1550
01:31:03,100 --> 01:31:07,300
alcohol under any circumstances.
Wasn't alcohol.

1551
01:31:07,300 --> 01:31:09,400
That's the thing.
They didn't realize that it was

1552
01:31:09,400 --> 01:31:12,200
the insulin injections that were
being poisoned and Molly was

1553
01:31:12,200 --> 01:31:15,300
100%, right?
It was just happening, very

1554
01:31:15,300 --> 01:31:19,900
slowly, as to present itself as
an a slow ending illness, just

1555
01:31:19,900 --> 01:31:21,500
like her mother.
Yeah.

1556
01:31:23,000 --> 01:31:25,100
Finally, it was December 1925.
Agent.

1557
01:31:25,100 --> 01:31:28,800
White couldn't wait any longer.
He sent out warrants to arrest,

1558
01:31:28,800 --> 01:31:32,900
will help William Hale and his
nephew Ernest Burkhart Earnest

1559
01:31:32,900 --> 01:31:35,700
got picked up right away and
they took him to a jail and got

1560
01:31:35,700 --> 01:31:39,200
three which was a roughly like
Southwest like 80 miles.

1561
01:31:39,600 --> 01:31:43,200
He'll actually couldn't be found
and they had learned that he

1562
01:31:43,200 --> 01:31:46,200
liked bought a fancy new outfit
and then he strolled into the

1563
01:31:46,200 --> 01:31:48,900
Sheriff's Office and was like
understand.

1564
01:31:48,900 --> 01:31:51,900
I'm wanted oh my God.
And so they took him to jail and

1565
01:31:51,900 --> 01:31:56,300
Guthrie to they were held
separately and they actually put

1566
01:31:56,300 --> 01:32:00,500
our In this area of the prison
that was hot as hell like.

1567
01:32:00,700 --> 01:32:02,600
So he would be super
uncomfortable.

1568
01:32:04,200 --> 01:32:09,100
They in fact, all the police in
Guthrie were like Earnest is

1569
01:32:09,100 --> 01:32:12,700
gonna break first.
He he just seems like he would

1570
01:32:13,600 --> 01:32:16,800
no one breaks in the first 24
hours, Ernest, just sit there

1571
01:32:16,800 --> 01:32:19,300
saying over and over your
informant is lying.

1572
01:32:20,200 --> 01:32:24,500
Hales like I have an alibi.
I was I literally got a telegram

1573
01:32:24,500 --> 01:32:27,700
in Texas and signed for it.
How was I there for bills

1574
01:32:27,700 --> 01:32:33,200
assassination?
White goes out in a lamb and he

1575
01:32:33,200 --> 01:32:35,900
decides I need to bring Blackie
Thompson it.

1576
01:32:36,700 --> 01:32:39,000
Forgot all about Blackie got you
will remember.

1577
01:32:39,000 --> 01:32:42,400
They had originally used him and
then had to put him back in

1578
01:32:42,400 --> 01:32:43,900
prison because he was a little
too rowdy.

1579
01:32:43,900 --> 01:32:46,900
Yeah, so he didn't even.
So here's the thing.

1580
01:32:46,900 --> 01:32:50,100
White didn't even like talk to
Hoover about this because had he

1581
01:32:50,100 --> 01:32:52,700
asked for permission Hoover
would have said, no, because

1582
01:32:52,700 --> 01:32:55,900
that had been a big scandal at
had gotten him in trouble.

1583
01:32:58,000 --> 01:33:01,100
But what he did do was Whitehead
Thompson.

1584
01:33:03,000 --> 01:33:07,800
Always under an armed guard.
They he legitimately had a

1585
01:33:08,000 --> 01:33:15,100
Rifleman on a nearby building.
Always with his rifle on

1586
01:33:15,100 --> 01:33:18,100
Thompson the entire time.
He was there.

1587
01:33:18,800 --> 01:33:24,900
Like they took every attempt to
make sure Thompson did not

1588
01:33:24,900 --> 01:33:30,500
Escape So they bring in
Thompson, he's initially kind of

1589
01:33:30,500 --> 01:33:34,200
hostile and rude.
But when agent white goes,

1590
01:33:34,200 --> 01:33:35,900
listen, I don't want to know
about anything else you're

1591
01:33:35,900 --> 01:33:37,600
doing.
I want to know about, Bill Hale

1592
01:33:38,000 --> 01:33:40,000
and your connections to him and
osich else.

1593
01:33:41,200 --> 01:33:45,500
And that's when they noticed
that Thompson was like no longer

1594
01:33:45,500 --> 01:33:51,900
as aggressive.
He told white, told him.

1595
01:33:51,900 --> 01:33:53,600
Listen, I can't shorten your
sentence.

1596
01:33:53,600 --> 01:33:55,100
You're literally in jail for
life.

1597
01:33:56,200 --> 01:33:59,900
But eventually Thompson began
talking and he said that he had

1598
01:33:59,900 --> 01:34:02,500
also been offered money to Kill
Bill and Rita Smith.

1599
01:34:04,400 --> 01:34:09,300
So they took that back to
Burkhardt and they said listen

1600
01:34:09,800 --> 01:34:13,800
we have a second witness willing
to testify that you conspired to

1601
01:34:13,800 --> 01:34:18,900
Kill Bill and Rita Smith and so
Earnest is like nah nah you

1602
01:34:18,900 --> 01:34:21,000
don't and he's like who
recommend?

1603
01:34:21,900 --> 01:34:25,700
So they bring in Thompson into
the same room with Earnest and

1604
01:34:26,700 --> 01:34:31,600
Earnest Burkhart is shook.
Circus Thompson.

1605
01:34:31,600 --> 01:34:33,500
Looks at Earnest and goes
listener and eat.

1606
01:34:33,600 --> 01:34:39,000
I told him everything.
Burkhart is almost like he wants

1607
01:34:39,000 --> 01:34:42,300
to talk but he's too scared
multiple times, he liked starts

1608
01:34:42,300 --> 01:34:48,000
the conversation and discuss I
can't They take Thompson back to

1609
01:34:48,000 --> 01:34:51,600
his cell white goes home.
A little bit defeated.

1610
01:34:52,600 --> 01:34:56,200
He's like, maybe the whole that
Hale has on his nephews is just

1611
01:34:56,200 --> 01:34:58,700
too much.
In the middle of night though,

1612
01:34:58,700 --> 01:35:01,900
he gets a phone call and he's
worried, he's like, oh God it's

1613
01:35:01,900 --> 01:35:05,400
a phone call like midnight.
Does that mean Tom said escaped

1614
01:35:05,600 --> 01:35:08,100
or somebody killed himself or
something like that?

1615
01:35:08,400 --> 01:35:12,500
No, it was the prison aren't.
His Burkhart is ready to talk.

1616
01:35:12,600 --> 01:35:16,000
Oh, okay.
Brock Holt was told his rights,

1617
01:35:16,000 --> 01:35:19,000
he And a paper saying he waved
them and he made a statement

1618
01:35:19,000 --> 01:35:23,000
implicating not just his uncle
in the bomb plot but connecting

1619
01:35:23,000 --> 01:35:26,200
hail to a lot of the criminals
that agent Smith had learned

1620
01:35:26,200 --> 01:35:31,000
about Burkhardt told them that
Lawson actually had lied and the

1621
01:35:31,000 --> 01:35:34,300
bomber was not Lawson.
It was a demolition expert that

1622
01:35:34,300 --> 01:35:40,300
they had found named ASA Kirby.
ASA, Kirby had been eliminated,

1623
01:35:40,300 --> 01:35:42,800
just like all the other
criminals, that's why you

1624
01:35:42,800 --> 01:35:45,000
haven't heard of them, right?
That's why loss of the still

1625
01:35:45,000 --> 01:35:46,600
alive.
If he had been the one who done

1626
01:35:46,600 --> 01:35:51,400
it, he dead very true.
He said that bill Hills.

1627
01:35:51,400 --> 01:35:54,700
Alibi was real.
He had just paid Kirby to do the

1628
01:35:54,700 --> 01:35:59,800
murder Burke her.
Turned out on a lot of people.

1629
01:36:00,000 --> 01:36:03,400
He implicated a man named John
Ramsey, unknown cow Thief for

1630
01:36:03,400 --> 01:36:07,000
killing Henry Rowan.
Ramsey initially played dumb

1631
01:36:07,000 --> 01:36:09,700
until they brought Burkhart
signed confession to him and he

1632
01:36:09,700 --> 01:36:12,400
went I guess it's on my neck
now.

1633
01:36:12,400 --> 01:36:16,300
Get your pencils.
The only person that Ernest

1634
01:36:16,300 --> 01:36:19,000
dimming implicating, his
confession was his brother

1635
01:36:19,600 --> 01:36:21,500
brianburkhardt.
Why not?

1636
01:36:21,500 --> 01:36:23,500
And Brian was the Prime is this
Brother?

1637
01:36:23,500 --> 01:36:29,700
Come on, man, his uncle but
honest to give them the name of

1638
01:36:29,700 --> 01:36:34,900
the third man who was with Brian
and Anna was in Earnest now who

1639
01:36:34,900 --> 01:36:40,000
was Is it Kelsey Morrison the
informant that they'd had the

1640
01:36:40,000 --> 01:36:42,400
entire time.
He didn't want to implicate

1641
01:36:42,400 --> 01:36:46,900
himself what, in fact, Kelsey
Morrison is the person that

1642
01:36:46,900 --> 01:36:49,000
killed Anna.
Wow.

1643
01:36:49,800 --> 01:36:52,700
Okay.
So they went to go gather

1644
01:36:52,700 --> 01:36:55,800
Morrison and they decide to
check on Molly Burkhardt.

1645
01:36:56,200 --> 01:37:00,200
He was near death.
And coincidentally, as soon as

1646
01:37:00,200 --> 01:37:04,200
her husband was locked up and
the injection stopped, Molly got

1647
01:37:04,200 --> 01:37:07,200
better.
To the damn Brothers, what we're

1648
01:37:07,200 --> 01:37:10,900
brothers at Hearn has never
admitted to poisoning his wife,

1649
01:37:11,300 --> 01:37:14,800
the show and brothers were
brought in and they were asked

1650
01:37:14,800 --> 01:37:18,000
about what they were using to
treat Molly, they never gave a

1651
01:37:18,008 --> 01:37:23,100
straight answer.
Like I read the interviews

1652
01:37:23,100 --> 01:37:27,400
there.
So kg like, like I said, like,

1653
01:37:27,400 --> 01:37:30,600
explain to you the answers that
the show and brothers gave were

1654
01:37:30,600 --> 01:37:33,800
the same, but also very cagey.
Like, at one point he was just

1655
01:37:33,800 --> 01:37:36,100
like, Well, why'd you ask the
nurse to leave?

1656
01:37:36,300 --> 01:37:38,000
He was like, I don't remember
asking the nurse to leave.

1657
01:37:38,000 --> 01:37:39,800
He was like, well, did she lie?
And he's like, no.

1658
01:37:39,800 --> 01:37:42,800
If she said, I asked her to
leave I did, but there's lots of

1659
01:37:42,800 --> 01:37:45,100
reasons why I could ask a nurse
to leave, okay?

1660
01:37:45,300 --> 01:37:48,100
It was that kind of stuff.
Like it was so cyclical.

1661
01:37:48,300 --> 01:37:52,200
And honestly, I think that I
would white was just like, I'm

1662
01:37:52,200 --> 01:37:55,800
fed up with y'all.
I want to choke that unlike you

1663
01:37:55,800 --> 01:37:57,700
better answer my questions
correctly.

1664
01:37:58,400 --> 01:38:00,400
No, it was always, it was really
kg.

1665
01:38:00,400 --> 01:38:04,200
It was very cyclical every time.
Like they were like, oh, you

1666
01:38:04,200 --> 01:38:06,200
know, are you sure it was
insulin that you were giving

1667
01:38:06,200 --> 01:38:08,200
Molly Burkhart?
Well, we thought it was insulin,

1668
01:38:09,900 --> 01:38:11,900
we don't know.
We just get the syringes, we're

1669
01:38:11,900 --> 01:38:15,000
not putting it in there, you are
putting it in her.

1670
01:38:16,000 --> 01:38:19,300
So you should know what you're
giving a patient.

1671
01:38:20,000 --> 01:38:22,900
Paige I hate.
Yeah, there they are.

1672
01:38:23,200 --> 01:38:26,300
The two.
I hate In This Very Room of all

1673
01:38:26,300 --> 01:38:28,800
the people.
You're mad at your mad at David

1674
01:38:28,800 --> 01:38:32,500
show at these two people you're
pissing me off.

1675
01:38:32,500 --> 01:38:35,700
Okay.
Anyway, on this, though, Molly's

1676
01:38:35,700 --> 01:38:39,000
like I really want the people
who killed my family to go to

1677
01:38:39,000 --> 01:38:41,100
prison and they're like
everybody.

1678
01:38:41,100 --> 01:38:43,600
And she's like, yeah, everybody.
And they're like Ernest, she's

1679
01:38:43,600 --> 01:38:46,300
like, I love Earnest, she's
really struggling.

1680
01:38:46,400 --> 01:38:49,100
She's just like, no, it's not
him.

1681
01:38:50,300 --> 01:38:55,000
It was Earnest to with all the
other confessions agent white

1682
01:38:55,000 --> 01:38:59,000
goes back to hail.
He's like, listen, we have all

1683
01:38:59,000 --> 01:39:03,300
this evidence against you.
An it's going to be so messy.

1684
01:39:03,500 --> 01:39:05,400
Your family is going to be
implicated.

1685
01:39:05,400 --> 01:39:08,000
It's going to be a big shame to
your family.

1686
01:39:08,500 --> 01:39:10,600
Do you really want to do all
this?

1687
01:39:12,600 --> 01:39:17,300
He'll was like I'll fight it.
Oh okay.

1688
01:39:19,300 --> 01:39:23,000
So, I went to court hail and the
co-conspirators were tried in

1689
01:39:23,000 --> 01:39:26,500
both state and federal court
between 1926 and 1929.

1690
01:39:27,100 --> 01:39:30,200
It was state and federal court
because some of the murders were

1691
01:39:30,200 --> 01:39:33,800
done off the reservation.
So those were tried in local

1692
01:39:33,800 --> 01:39:37,300
Court, whereas the ones on the
reservation, we're done.

1693
01:39:37,300 --> 01:39:40,200
We're heading federally, I'm
going to save you.

1694
01:39:40,200 --> 01:39:42,900
A lot of the sort of details,
there were a lot of Deadlock

1695
01:39:42,900 --> 01:39:48,100
juries there were appeals
overturned verdicts. halfway

1696
01:39:48,100 --> 01:39:52,400
through Earnest trial, like he
was messed up like he was just

1697
01:39:53,600 --> 01:39:58,300
He's described during his trial
as just looking Haggard at one

1698
01:39:58,300 --> 01:40:02,400
point Hale and him have the same
attorney and they bring him in

1699
01:40:02,800 --> 01:40:07,800
too.
Like he walks in and he was like

1700
01:40:07,800 --> 01:40:13,600
wait.
He's on our side and so they

1701
01:40:13,600 --> 01:40:15,400
make him go talk to that
attorney.

1702
01:40:15,400 --> 01:40:18,900
And when he comes back, he
starts recanting, all of his

1703
01:40:18,900 --> 01:40:21,700
confession on the stand.
That gets everything.

1704
01:40:21,700 --> 01:40:23,800
Shut down.
It's a big craziness.

1705
01:40:24,000 --> 01:40:26,800
And finally, that night, after
Earnest was put back in prison,

1706
01:40:27,000 --> 01:40:29,300
he actually requested the judge
and he was just like, I don't

1707
01:40:29,300 --> 01:40:32,300
want to do this anymore.
The judges like what do you

1708
01:40:32,300 --> 01:40:33,200
mean?
He's like why aren't you talking

1709
01:40:33,200 --> 01:40:35,000
to your attorney?
He's like, they won't let me do

1710
01:40:35,000 --> 01:40:37,700
what I want to do and judges
like what do you want to do?

1711
01:40:37,700 --> 01:40:40,000
He's like, can I just go to
prison for life?

1712
01:40:41,000 --> 01:40:43,800
Can we just be done with us?
This is really stressful and so

1713
01:40:43,800 --> 01:40:48,100
the judge was like okay he's
like no death penalty, you just

1714
01:40:48,100 --> 01:40:49,200
go to jail forever.
Hmm.

1715
01:40:52,600 --> 01:40:57,200
He turned State's evidence and
told the police that Hale had.

1716
01:40:58,900 --> 01:41:01,800
Also gotten George big heart
killed as well.

1717
01:41:02,200 --> 01:41:08,600
George big heart has been to see
hail And then come home and I'd

1718
01:41:09,700 --> 01:41:12,300
he implicated his uncle in the
poisoning of Joe Bates.

1719
01:41:13,500 --> 01:41:18,300
The trials were pretty heated,
Kelsey Morrison finally admitted

1720
01:41:18,600 --> 01:41:22,300
to killing Anna Brown at the
request of hail and he said that

1721
01:41:22,300 --> 01:41:25,000
Brian was his.
Accomplice Brian also turns

1722
01:41:25,000 --> 01:41:29,200
State's evidence, it took four
separate Charles to get hail

1723
01:41:29,200 --> 01:41:30,800
convicted.
Wow.

1724
01:41:30,900 --> 01:41:36,600
October 29th 1929, he was only
convicted for one murder.

1725
01:41:36,600 --> 01:41:40,000
Come on, huh?
We didn't rear Owen?

1726
01:41:40,100 --> 01:41:42,900
Okay.
Well, how long is he put away

1727
01:41:42,900 --> 01:41:46,300
for Or he was given life in
prison and sent to Leavenworth

1728
01:41:46,300 --> 01:41:49,500
Prison in Kansas, okay?
Unfortunately.

1729
01:41:49,500 --> 01:41:54,800
He was paroled on July, 31st
1947 after serving 17 years in

1730
01:41:54,800 --> 01:41:57,600
prison, he moved to Montana
because he literally lost

1731
01:41:57,700 --> 01:42:01,000
everything in Oklahoma good
where he became a ranch hand.

1732
01:42:01,500 --> 01:42:05,300
He died in Arizona and 1962 and
was buried in Wichita, Kansas,

1733
01:42:06,100 --> 01:42:11,300
what'd he, die of natural
causes, damn it cools old by

1734
01:42:11,300 --> 01:42:15,800
then he was in his 80s.
Despite all the setbacks this

1735
01:42:16,000 --> 01:42:19,800
was seen as a major win for the
bureau, which would become the

1736
01:42:19,800 --> 01:42:23,500
FBI in 1935, that's awesome and
become its own.

1737
01:42:24,100 --> 01:42:26,300
It wasn't just a part of the
Department of Justice anymore.

1738
01:42:26,300 --> 01:42:30,500
It was its own Federal Bureau of
Investigation Bernie's Burkhart

1739
01:42:30,500 --> 01:42:36,200
received life in prison and got
a full pardon from Oklahoma,

1740
01:42:36,200 --> 01:42:42,400
governor Henry bellmon in 1965,
he wanted to go to jail, I know.

1741
01:42:43,200 --> 01:42:46,100
Molly divorced, her husband.
Got remarried to a man named

1742
01:42:46,100 --> 01:42:48,100
John Cobb.
They were very happy.

1743
01:42:48,700 --> 01:42:52,300
Actually, during Ernest trial.
Their daughter Anna died.

1744
01:42:52,300 --> 01:42:57,600
She was 40.
It was really just devastating

1745
01:42:57,600 --> 01:43:01,700
for her because she was like,
damn, I sent her to go live with

1746
01:43:01,700 --> 01:43:05,300
her other family and be safe.
And now she's gone.

1747
01:43:05,300 --> 01:43:09,400
Yeah.
Molly died of natural causes in

1748
01:43:09,400 --> 01:43:12,700
1937.
Her head right went to her.

1749
01:43:12,700 --> 01:43:16,900
Surviving older children, Tom on
Tom white went on to have an

1750
01:43:16,900 --> 01:43:20,500
illustrious career in the FBI.
He actually ended up becoming

1751
01:43:20,500 --> 01:43:22,600
one of those college boys that
he never liked.

1752
01:43:23,600 --> 01:43:27,200
He had a stroke in 1971 at 90
years old and died.

1753
01:43:27,200 --> 01:43:30,500
December twenty.
First two months later after

1754
01:43:30,500 --> 01:43:33,800
this was all exposed, the US
government changed the head

1755
01:43:33,800 --> 01:43:37,000
right law saying that the
allotment could be passed.

1756
01:43:37,200 --> 01:43:41,500
Down to two.
Nobody other than other postage

1757
01:43:41,500 --> 01:43:45,700
tribe members yes in an attempt
to make sure the reign of terror

1758
01:43:45,800 --> 01:43:49,200
never happened again.
No more white men coming in.

1759
01:43:49,200 --> 01:43:52,200
Pretty much didn't matter if you
married into the family.

1760
01:43:52,700 --> 01:43:57,200
If you weren't, if you, you had
to be at least 50% blood-quantum

1761
01:43:57,200 --> 01:43:59,100
for you to have this head,
right?

1762
01:43:59,200 --> 01:44:01,900
That's like I said, they do
still have the treaty.

1763
01:44:02,000 --> 01:44:04,300
Mmm, not the treaty.
I'm sorry, they do still have

1764
01:44:05,100 --> 01:44:08,600
had Ray and they do still get
That allotment but there has

1765
01:44:08,600 --> 01:44:14,600
been continuous issues with.
The guardianship it's not the

1766
01:44:14,600 --> 01:44:19,800
same as it was then but there
was still major mismanagement on

1767
01:44:19,800 --> 01:44:23,100
a bigger level Kimberly is still
going on.

1768
01:44:23,100 --> 01:44:25,500
Hey Miss, it's not the
guardianship.

1769
01:44:26,400 --> 01:44:30,200
Oh my God if we Brittany free
free days, right?

1770
01:44:30,200 --> 01:44:34,400
Well anything is pointed to a
lot of people that

1771
01:44:34,400 --> 01:44:36,600
conservatorships and
guardianships and things of that

1772
01:44:36,600 --> 01:44:41,300
nature are very easily.
Get manipulated, manipulated and

1773
01:44:41,300 --> 01:44:45,200
taking advantage of Lily.
I'm sure some of the, the

1774
01:44:45,200 --> 01:44:48,200
children of the Osage tribe,
where some of the people who

1775
01:44:48,200 --> 01:44:50,200
were just straight robbed
because they would have never

1776
01:44:50,200 --> 01:44:56,400
even looked at their accounts.
Yeah, no they were kids, there

1777
01:44:56,400 --> 01:45:00,900
is more to this story.
That was recovered.

1778
01:45:01,000 --> 01:45:05,000
It was discovered later when
reporters looked into the cases,

1779
01:45:05,400 --> 01:45:07,400
I'm gonna leave that up to the
people listening.

1780
01:45:08,000 --> 01:45:12,800
The majority of this podcast
today was sourced from the Book

1781
01:45:12,800 --> 01:45:17,100
killers of the flower Moon, by
David Graham, it is totally

1782
01:45:17,100 --> 01:45:19,600
worth reading.
You should get yourself a copy.

1783
01:45:19,600 --> 01:45:23,000
There is a whole third section
that discusses the newer

1784
01:45:23,000 --> 01:45:24,700
information that has discovered
been discovered.

1785
01:45:24,700 --> 01:45:28,100
Recently, there's also another
book that I read called the

1786
01:45:28,100 --> 01:45:34,100
deaths of Sybil Bolton by Dennis
make Olive who learned way later

1787
01:45:34,100 --> 01:45:38,900
in life, that his grandmother
Sybil Bolton was poisoned during

1788
01:45:38,900 --> 01:45:41,300
the reign of terror.
That's what the movies called

1789
01:45:41,300 --> 01:45:43,200
to.
Yes, the Is called Killers, the

1790
01:45:43,200 --> 01:45:46,200
flower moon.
It's called the Osage murders in

1791
01:45:46,200 --> 01:45:49,800
the birth of the FBI together.
It is one hell of a story.

1792
01:45:50,100 --> 01:45:52,000
I totally understand why it's a
movie now.

1793
01:45:52,400 --> 01:45:55,400
Yeah, Leonardo playing Ernest.
Yeah.

1794
01:45:55,400 --> 01:45:56,800
Well, I mean ours was a white
guy.

1795
01:45:56,800 --> 01:45:59,500
So I know it's interested in
who's gonna play the indigenous

1796
01:45:59,500 --> 01:46:03,800
women because like, who's
playing Rita and Lizzie and

1797
01:46:04,900 --> 01:46:07,800
yeah, are they first Nations
actresses?

1798
01:46:07,800 --> 01:46:08,800
Because I would really like
that.

1799
01:46:08,800 --> 01:46:11,400
Yeah, Lily Gladstone, playing
Molly.

1800
01:46:12,400 --> 01:46:19,900
Is that but yeah, I don't know.
But it was like I said, one hell

1801
01:46:19,900 --> 01:46:23,100
of a story.
I got it and this just happened.

1802
01:46:23,200 --> 01:46:26,800
Yeah, in our history.
Holy cow.

1803
01:46:26,900 --> 01:46:30,200
Goodness gracious.
That was a story.

1804
01:46:30,400 --> 01:46:33,100
I told you like, I was so hype.
That's like, this went way

1805
01:46:33,100 --> 01:46:34,500
longer.
I looked at my notes and was

1806
01:46:34,500 --> 01:46:41,300
like, oh dear, we're at like 17
pages, but totally, absolutely

1807
01:46:41,300 --> 01:46:43,600
incredibly worth.
And if you listen to, thank you

1808
01:46:43,600 --> 01:46:48,600
so much, mmm-hmm.
So, we got some spook in to talk

1809
01:46:48,600 --> 01:46:50,500
about.
Now, we got some scrutiny to

1810
01:46:50,500 --> 01:46:53,100
talk about.
Well, not spookin, okay.

1811
01:46:53,900 --> 01:46:55,600
People who investigates broken
though?

1812
01:46:56,100 --> 01:47:00,400
Oh okay, okay, so about talk
about our boy Zak Bagans.

1813
01:47:00,400 --> 01:47:06,000
Again, I never talk about I will
never there would never be an

1814
01:47:06,000 --> 01:47:10,400
episode where I talk about him,
maybe definitely not.

1815
01:47:10,400 --> 01:47:12,200
Maybe he gets a rest of my for
doing it.

1816
01:47:12,500 --> 01:47:14,300
Douchebag stuff.
Anyway.

1817
01:47:14,700 --> 01:47:18,600
No today I'm going to start this
off by apologizing, okay,

1818
01:47:19,300 --> 01:47:22,100
recanting, I guess whatever.
Oh Lily Gladstone as a First

1819
01:47:22,100 --> 01:47:26,500
Nations actress knew ye I just
didn't know she was I looked her

1820
01:47:26,500 --> 01:47:28,600
up.
I've heard her name before it is

1821
01:47:28,600 --> 01:47:31,500
in no way.
I'm gonna start it off by

1822
01:47:31,500 --> 01:47:36,000
apologizing to anybody who's
listened or who is listening

1823
01:47:36,300 --> 01:47:40,900
goes back and listens to any of
our earlier episodes when I

1824
01:47:41,000 --> 01:47:43,800
first started talking when I was
talking, I mentioned Harry,

1825
01:47:43,800 --> 01:47:45,800
Houdini and then and then I
hear.

1826
01:47:45,800 --> 01:47:48,200
I mentioned Harry price as well.
Okay.

1827
01:47:48,300 --> 01:47:52,400
And I got Harry price next up
with Vincent Price.

1828
01:47:53,000 --> 01:47:56,500
Oh dear.
Because of the same last name,

1829
01:47:56,500 --> 01:47:58,400
right?
But Vincent Price.

1830
01:47:58,400 --> 01:48:01,200
Yeah.
So I'd even Pete that the day

1831
01:48:01,200 --> 01:48:02,000
you started.
Yeah.

1832
01:48:02,000 --> 01:48:04,900
It's okay.
Like it was earlier episodes,

1833
01:48:05,100 --> 01:48:08,800
but I'd confuse Harry price of
admission price in the

1834
01:48:08,800 --> 01:48:12,200
Scooby-Doo.
It's appraised price is like

1835
01:48:12,300 --> 01:48:14,800
Like awesome.
Awesome people.

1836
01:48:14,800 --> 01:48:19,600
Yeah, I know Harry price is
awesome people to okay but I

1837
01:48:19,608 --> 01:48:25,500
just wanted to go back and
correct that it was Vincent huh.

1838
01:48:25,500 --> 01:48:28,400
Are we talking about Vincent?
No but maybe I should one day

1839
01:48:28,600 --> 01:48:30,700
because whole dude Adventure
price is.

1840
01:48:30,700 --> 01:48:32,100
Yeah.
He's one of those pillars that I

1841
01:48:32,100 --> 01:48:35,100
like to think about because when
I think of is the price, I go.

1842
01:48:35,400 --> 01:48:37,400
I know, right?
Yes.

1843
01:48:38,600 --> 01:48:40,900
You know, weird eyebrow thing.
Oh my God.

1844
01:48:40,900 --> 01:48:43,100
Yeah, he did.
Well, ya know, the animated him

1845
01:48:43,100 --> 01:48:46,100
in the Scooby-Doo movies, but oh
wow.

1846
01:48:46,100 --> 01:48:48,300
Yeah, he was in.
That is fucking awesome.

1847
01:48:48,500 --> 01:48:50,700
Anyway.
No, I'm talking about the other

1848
01:48:50,700 --> 01:48:53,200
price today.
Okay, Harry price.

1849
01:48:53,200 --> 01:48:57,900
Okay.
So do you know who Harry price

1850
01:48:57,900 --> 01:49:03,700
was cat-like?
Offhand name him. okay, well,

1851
01:49:05,400 --> 01:49:08,000
Since I already talked about
Harry Houdini, yes I'm gonna

1852
01:49:08,000 --> 01:49:11,500
talk about her price.
Also, Harry price was basically

1853
01:49:11,500 --> 01:49:15,100
was he also a magic man.
He did sleight of hand.

1854
01:49:15,100 --> 01:49:19,100
Oh but here your price was
basically the.

1855
01:49:19,100 --> 01:49:21,600
Yeah, the UK version of Harry
Houdini.

1856
01:49:21,600 --> 01:49:24,200
Okay?
Okay, so what did he do?

1857
01:49:24,200 --> 01:49:26,400
The things like that?
I'm locked up inside of a big

1858
01:49:26,400 --> 01:49:28,600
old giant case of water
situation like those ones.

1859
01:49:28,600 --> 01:49:32,100
No, no, no.
I feel so anxious.

1860
01:49:32,100 --> 01:49:34,700
When I watch this, nothing like
that.

1861
01:49:35,100 --> 01:49:38,200
I'm watching a murder because
look, what Houdini, he kind of

1862
01:49:38,200 --> 01:49:42,700
like, started out as a magician,
right, and like stage magic and

1863
01:49:42,700 --> 01:49:45,800
stuff like that.
And he became, you know, but

1864
01:49:45,800 --> 01:49:50,200
then he was into like the
defrauding of the mediums of

1865
01:49:50,200 --> 01:49:52,400
stuff like that.
But even then after that he did

1866
01:49:52,400 --> 01:49:54,800
stuff that was he did The Escape
of rotting mediums.

1867
01:49:54,800 --> 01:49:58,400
Yeah.
So like his whole career wasn't

1868
01:49:58,400 --> 01:50:00,800
like the medium thing is who's
kid.

1869
01:50:00,800 --> 01:50:02,100
That was towards the.
Yeah.

1870
01:50:02,200 --> 01:50:04,800
And mainly that was because he
got mad about the mediums and

1871
01:50:04,800 --> 01:50:09,600
his Look look, understandable.
Yeah, listen, I don't want you

1872
01:50:09,600 --> 01:50:14,400
to mention anybody.
Who I know who has died, fam,

1873
01:50:15,500 --> 01:50:18,200
tell me about some stranger's,
but if the person mentioned

1874
01:50:18,200 --> 01:50:20,400
somebody, I know me.
Mad too.

1875
01:50:20,400 --> 01:50:22,800
Yeah.
Especially if you get it wrong

1876
01:50:22,900 --> 01:50:26,400
because like he's like, yeah,
your mom learned English and the

1877
01:50:26,400 --> 01:50:31,100
afterlife get out of here.
Oh, mama is Hungarian how she

1878
01:50:31,100 --> 01:50:34,200
won't learn English.
She ain't speak English dies.

1879
01:50:34,200 --> 01:50:37,400
Oh my God.
Yeah, but did okay, so what

1880
01:50:37,400 --> 01:50:39,800
Harry price do?
Something similar here plays,

1881
01:50:39,800 --> 01:50:43,200
did you something similar?
So, here, price, he started his

1882
01:50:43,200 --> 01:50:49,100
career out, basically with the
Supernatural and then what a

1883
01:50:49,100 --> 01:50:53,800
paranormal, and then he learned
sleight-of-hand magic and stuff

1884
01:50:53,800 --> 01:50:56,900
like that on his on his way.
So this is a story.

1885
01:50:56,900 --> 01:50:59,000
I'm going to tell this it's
going to be like a multi-part

1886
01:50:59,000 --> 01:51:02,500
because I got another your other
cases from Harry price.

1887
01:51:02,500 --> 01:51:04,500
I want to talk about.
Oh, so you're talking about one

1888
01:51:04,500 --> 01:51:06,600
particular A price case.
I'm going to I'm going to do

1889
01:51:06,600 --> 01:51:10,900
like a little sure what to say
because I do I did tell you that

1890
01:51:10,900 --> 01:51:14,000
I wrote too much and I was like,
okay well let me just stop right

1891
01:51:14,000 --> 01:51:17,800
now.
You could have gone with no

1892
01:51:17,800 --> 01:51:19,900
three-hour episode.
We can have a three hour episode

1893
01:51:19,900 --> 01:51:21,100
like next week.
Okay.

1894
01:51:21,500 --> 01:51:24,500
No it probably won't be as long
bet.

1895
01:51:26,500 --> 01:51:28,200
Are you know I'm going to talk
about next week.

1896
01:51:28,200 --> 01:51:30,600
I already planned it.
So there you go.

1897
01:51:30,600 --> 01:51:34,500
Won't be as bad also.
I got a I got stuff to do after

1898
01:51:34,500 --> 01:51:35,900
we record next week.
That's right.

1899
01:51:35,900 --> 01:51:42,700
You do hit me.
Never mind not 3 hours. 3 hours

1900
01:51:42,700 --> 01:51:44,900
anyway.
Maybe episode 50.

1901
01:51:49,800 --> 01:52:01,500
So in London I don't think this
was cool on his part but he kind

1902
01:52:01,500 --> 01:52:05,000
of wanted to change some details
about his early childhood.

1903
01:52:05,000 --> 01:52:07,900
Oh dear.
Basically, mainly where he was

1904
01:52:07,900 --> 01:52:10,900
born, people always to do that,
though.

1905
01:52:11,500 --> 01:52:14,600
So he wanted people.
Like, if you read, I read one of

1906
01:52:14,600 --> 01:52:19,800
his books when I was writing
this up Confessions of a ghost

1907
01:52:19,800 --> 01:52:21,400
hunter, okay?
I think that's what it was

1908
01:52:21,400 --> 01:52:25,800
called and he States in her, he
was born.

1909
01:52:26,200 --> 01:52:31,900
In.
Oh, so fry shove cephalic.

1910
01:52:32,300 --> 01:52:44,800
No, not so folk, it's sh ROP.
Shi re it's something sure.

1911
01:52:45,000 --> 01:52:47,600
Yeah.
Yeah I'm not getting all the

1912
01:52:47,600 --> 01:52:50,900
letters you're saying.
But literally somebody on my

1913
01:52:50,900 --> 01:52:54,000
timeline the other day was just
like rope, she likes to sure.

1914
01:52:54,600 --> 01:52:57,700
They literally were like, if I
have nothing to tell Americans

1915
01:52:57,700 --> 01:53:00,000
it's was sure.
It is what?

1916
01:53:00,000 --> 01:53:04,000
Yes, it's Schroeder.
Shire is sure.

1917
01:53:04,100 --> 01:53:08,100
It's that I know for sure is
Shropshire, that's not sure.

1918
01:53:08,700 --> 01:53:10,700
All right.
And not where he was born,

1919
01:53:10,700 --> 01:53:14,400
that's not where he was born,
but he did study there and it's

1920
01:53:14,400 --> 01:53:16,500
a really nice place.
I guess it's a lot of wealthy

1921
01:53:16,500 --> 01:53:20,200
people live there at that time.
So he wanted people to think I

1922
01:53:20,200 --> 01:53:22,300
got wealthy parents and stuff
like that.

1923
01:53:22,400 --> 01:53:23,900
Why was that something he
worried about?

1924
01:53:23,900 --> 01:53:26,100
I don't know.
Sure, he was actually born in

1925
01:53:26,100 --> 01:53:30,600
New cross and his father was a
traveling salesman.

1926
01:53:31,100 --> 01:53:33,700
Nobody liked traveling salesman.
We stay still.

1927
01:53:33,700 --> 01:53:38,500
Don't, it's a weird one of those
jobs that like was necessary,

1928
01:53:38,500 --> 01:53:41,500
but people hated that, The same
way that people hate when people

1929
01:53:41,500 --> 01:53:43,600
come to your door now.
Yeah that's why I had that.

1930
01:53:43,700 --> 01:53:46,600
I have that nice.
No soliciting sign that says no

1931
01:53:46,600 --> 01:53:50,300
soliciting don't render Bill,
don't knock, don't make it

1932
01:53:50,300 --> 01:53:53,300
weird.
I have received so much, Mormon

1933
01:53:53,300 --> 01:53:55,700
stuff in the last, like, two
months crazy.

1934
01:53:55,800 --> 01:53:57,800
Someone Mormon must be moved
into this apartment.

1935
01:53:58,900 --> 01:54:00,800
I was like, am I just don't even
want to talk to you?

1936
01:54:00,800 --> 01:54:02,800
Please don't talk to me.
Oh my God.

1937
01:54:03,200 --> 01:54:05,700
I got a thing.
Do you have a church?

1938
01:54:06,400 --> 01:54:09,500
Leave me alone.
Leave me alone.

1939
01:54:10,000 --> 01:54:13,300
Anyway, at the age of 15, he
found it.

1940
01:54:13,300 --> 01:54:17,800
The Carlton dramatic society,
which is now called the carton

1941
01:54:18,100 --> 01:54:21,400
theater group, okay?
It's place where amateur actors,

1942
01:54:21,400 --> 01:54:23,900
they go us, nice, play rates and
stuff like that.

1943
01:54:25,300 --> 01:54:29,900
And this is where he wrote his
first play, the skeptic, which

1944
01:54:29,900 --> 01:54:33,500
was an account of his first
ghost experience while he was

1945
01:54:33,500 --> 01:54:35,400
investigating his first haunted
house.

1946
01:54:36,000 --> 01:54:39,300
So as at age 15 like there was a
haunted house in there and you

1947
01:54:39,300 --> 01:54:42,600
know people Oil, they were
reporting Poltergeist type

1948
01:54:42,600 --> 01:54:45,900
activity.
So, you know, he goes there, he

1949
01:54:45,900 --> 01:54:49,000
checks it out and he writes this
play about it and this is

1950
01:54:49,000 --> 01:54:54,600
basically the only reason why he
founded this kolchin Dramatic

1951
01:54:54,600 --> 01:54:58,600
Society is so he could write
this play about him.

1952
01:54:58,600 --> 01:55:00,300
Going to investigate this
haunted house.

1953
01:55:00,400 --> 01:55:05,400
Okay, yeah.
But yeah, he goes into great

1954
01:55:05,400 --> 01:55:09,500
detail about this in his book,
The confession of a girl's ghost

1955
01:55:09,500 --> 01:55:13,000
hunter, okay?
You can find on arxiv.org.

1956
01:55:13,000 --> 01:55:17,400
It's the whole thing is there.
I've looked for other books that

1957
01:55:17,400 --> 01:55:19,100
he has other books are but
they're like.

1958
01:55:19,100 --> 01:55:23,800
That one's actually really good.
So he was also interested in our

1959
01:55:23,800 --> 01:55:26,600
College archaeology, which is
really cool.

1960
01:55:26,700 --> 01:55:30,500
It was a coin collector to and
you know, just small little

1961
01:55:30,500 --> 01:55:33,200
tidbits of things that you know
make him awesome.

1962
01:55:35,900 --> 01:55:41,600
An early influence to his life's
work was the great.

1963
01:55:44,600 --> 01:55:49,800
I cannot pronounce his name.
I tried it so many times is it's

1964
01:55:49,800 --> 01:55:54,500
like, okay, so it's basically,
I'm not saying it.

1965
01:55:54,500 --> 01:55:58,700
I'm not seeing any, but it's a
traveling Merchant basically.

1966
01:56:01,800 --> 01:56:07,500
Yeah, right?
Yeah, it did SSE cue, You ch.

1967
01:56:10,800 --> 01:56:17,700
The any EQ?
Yeah uch uch.

1968
01:56:17,700 --> 01:56:20,200
Are you eh?
Yeah yet?

1969
01:56:20,200 --> 01:56:22,800
Even spell it.
You I forgot you hate your

1970
01:56:22,800 --> 01:56:25,000
writing.
So anyway we're not talking

1971
01:56:25,000 --> 01:56:27,700
about the right now.
Sequitur.

1972
01:56:27,700 --> 01:56:32,800
Yeah, there you go.
So it's like that, that word.

1973
01:56:33,000 --> 01:56:36,900
So basically, this person is
like a traveling Merchant or

1974
01:56:36,900 --> 01:56:38,700
they like a traveling Medicine,
Man.

1975
01:56:38,800 --> 01:56:40,900
Okay?
Like, oh, that makes sense like

1976
01:56:40,900 --> 01:56:42,000
a.
It sounds a digital.

1977
01:56:42,200 --> 01:56:44,200
Yeah.
Like, a flim-flam man sort of

1978
01:56:44,200 --> 01:56:47,200
that sale snake oil and stuff
like that too.

1979
01:56:47,500 --> 01:56:53,500
So I looked up the name, snake
oil salesman and it's like,

1980
01:56:53,500 --> 01:56:56,900
there's a whiskey neat after his
to, or some type of alcohol, is

1981
01:56:56,900 --> 01:56:59,900
really cool looking.
But yeah, so they did like magic

1982
01:56:59,900 --> 01:57:07,600
and stuff like that.
So, Hee hee.

1983
01:57:07,600 --> 01:57:11,800
After you know, after he devotes
his life to like this stuff he

1984
01:57:11,900 --> 01:57:14,500
goes into the society is called
a magic circle.

1985
01:57:14,600 --> 01:57:18,500
Okay.
It's a British organisation made

1986
01:57:18,500 --> 01:57:27,600
for promoting the Arts of magic.
So, here is where he learns his

1987
01:57:27,600 --> 01:57:30,700
sleight-of-hand and some like
little parlor tricks.

1988
01:57:33,400 --> 01:57:37,900
So he's in the society about
magic and in the society amount

1989
01:57:37,900 --> 01:57:41,200
of magic he's also learning
about like, Conjuring things,

1990
01:57:41,600 --> 01:57:44,400
you know, I magicians, they
conjure, I don't know, rabbits

1991
01:57:44,400 --> 01:57:47,300
out of hats or, you know, doves
out of her arms and stuff like

1992
01:57:47,300 --> 01:57:50,900
that.
So that counts is Conjuring and

1993
01:57:51,700 --> 01:57:53,700
I mean, that's probably not the
kind of conjuring, he was

1994
01:57:53,700 --> 01:57:55,500
learning but that's what I'm
thinking.

1995
01:57:58,900 --> 01:58:05,100
Yeah.
So this gives them like a leg up

1996
01:58:05,100 --> 01:58:07,700
on wanting to learn more about
paranormal.

1997
01:58:09,100 --> 01:58:12,900
So he after you know, he's in
this magic circle, he joins the

1998
01:58:12,900 --> 01:58:18,300
society for physical research in
1920, okay?

1999
01:58:19,300 --> 01:58:24,900
And he was interested in mediums
like Houdini but unlike Houdini

2000
01:58:25,800 --> 01:58:31,400
Price, He endorsed, who did, he
endorse mediums that he actually

2001
01:58:31,400 --> 01:58:34,200
believed were like, correct?
Yeah.

2002
01:58:34,700 --> 01:58:38,300
So unlike Houdini, who was just
like, I'm not going to believe

2003
01:58:38,300 --> 01:58:42,900
anything.
I like what the meetings.

2004
01:58:43,100 --> 01:58:44,100
Yeah.
Hmm.

2005
01:58:44,900 --> 01:58:47,500
I'm more like Houdini well,
trust your dad files.

2006
01:58:47,600 --> 01:58:51,800
Okay, her name is Amy.
I forget her last name, but I

2007
01:58:51,800 --> 01:58:55,000
like her show.
It's corroborated by a police

2008
01:58:55,000 --> 01:58:56,500
officer.
Oh wow.

2009
01:58:56,500 --> 01:58:58,800
Okay.
Well, former police officer who

2010
01:58:58,800 --> 01:59:01,400
seems like a nice guy, you know,
that means something to me.

2011
01:59:01,500 --> 01:59:03,400
Okay, yeah.
Okay.

2012
01:59:03,400 --> 01:59:06,200
Okay.
Your benefit of the doubt.

2013
01:59:06,700 --> 01:59:10,800
Hmm, But yeah.
So he endures mediums that you

2014
01:59:10,800 --> 01:59:15,000
don't want a real deal.
So here is one of his earlier

2015
01:59:15,000 --> 01:59:16,400
cases.
All right?

2016
01:59:16,400 --> 01:59:19,600
Like one of his very first cases
so this is interesting because

2017
01:59:19,600 --> 01:59:26,100
this guy Started out amateur
Ghost, Hunter at 15, grows up,

2018
01:59:26,300 --> 01:59:29,400
he's an immature, Willis Hunter
archaeologist coin collector.

2019
01:59:29,800 --> 01:59:33,600
He wrote plays starting to feel
very much Jack of all trades,

2020
01:59:33,600 --> 01:59:43,700
master of none.
Just say, So February 1922 price

2021
01:59:43,700 --> 01:59:48,200
in a group of some magicians
that were in his group.

2022
01:59:49,100 --> 01:59:54,400
They go, they're investigating
one of the most famous spiritual

2023
01:59:54,400 --> 01:59:57,900
photographers of the time.
His name was William hope, okay?

2024
01:59:58,400 --> 02:00:05,800
And hope so hope was a member of
the crew Circle.

2025
02:00:06,500 --> 02:00:10,900
So this is a group of people who
Were basically just all spare

2026
02:00:10,900 --> 02:00:17,800
photographers, okay?
And what hope would do, you

2027
02:00:17,800 --> 02:00:20,100
know, he would offer his
services to people.

2028
02:00:20,100 --> 02:00:22,800
Of course, he gets pure Spirit,
photographs taken.

2029
02:00:23,900 --> 02:00:28,000
And the way he would do this is
that he would get people that

2030
02:00:28,000 --> 02:00:30,900
hold plates, I guess, and their
pictures.

2031
02:00:31,100 --> 02:00:35,000
And after, you know, pictures
were developed, they develop and

2032
02:00:35,000 --> 02:00:37,600
have a spirit behind them.
Yeah.

2033
02:00:37,600 --> 02:00:38,400
Yeah.
I've seen these.

2034
02:00:38,400 --> 02:00:40,300
Yeah.
Yeah, they're actually some

2035
02:00:40,300 --> 02:00:44,000
really beautiful ones from him.
There's the one with the two

2036
02:00:44,600 --> 02:00:47,800
people in the front and then
there's a lady with a veil right

2037
02:00:47,800 --> 02:00:50,000
behind them.
Super cool.

2038
02:00:50,100 --> 02:00:52,500
Yeah, fake as hell.
Very cool though.

2039
02:00:52,500 --> 02:00:55,900
That's a creepy picture, but
yeah, like it's really hard for

2040
02:00:55,900 --> 02:00:57,500
me because I went to school for
photography.

2041
02:00:58,200 --> 02:01:01,200
So and I got to use old timey
cameras.

2042
02:01:03,200 --> 02:01:05,400
Literally, all you have to do to
make a spirit.

2043
02:01:05,400 --> 02:01:10,700
Photographed is while the camera
is just sitting there with the

2044
02:01:10,700 --> 02:01:14,800
silver exposure, right?
And past, it's because it took

2045
02:01:14,800 --> 02:01:20,400
so long for the exposures to
saddle that it anything that

2046
02:01:20,400 --> 02:01:22,600
just darted by.
So, there are pictures of like

2047
02:01:22,600 --> 02:01:25,700
bugs zoom in by that like cause
people to fix this with

2048
02:01:25,700 --> 02:01:28,600
superiors.
If it was from the 1920s, I

2049
02:01:28,600 --> 02:01:30,900
don't trust it.
As far as the spirit photography

2050
02:01:30,900 --> 02:01:34,500
goes like, I said, he did some
Oppressive thing, you know, they

2051
02:01:34,508 --> 02:01:36,900
didn't look blurry, they looked
cool.

2052
02:01:36,900 --> 02:01:39,300
Ya know, some of his pictures.
They were like I looked at them.

2053
02:01:39,300 --> 02:01:41,300
They're actually really, really
nice.

2054
02:01:41,300 --> 02:01:42,900
Really good.
As I just know.

2055
02:01:42,900 --> 02:01:44,500
The one, the one, with the lady
in the veil.

2056
02:01:44,600 --> 02:01:46,800
That's the one that I've seen
that, I think is incredible.

2057
02:01:46,900 --> 02:01:49,800
There's another one, there's one
of Richard Price.

2058
02:01:49,800 --> 02:01:53,700
He got one taken not Richard.
Got Richard Harry Potter Harry

2059
02:01:53,700 --> 02:01:56,000
price.
God, I want to see that one

2060
02:01:56,000 --> 02:01:58,400
here.
You prior Richard Pryor hold on,

2061
02:01:59,000 --> 02:02:06,400
Richard Pryor the comedian Ryan.
Hold on here.

2062
02:02:06,600 --> 02:02:11,500
Um, it's picture.
The picture one Harry price.

2063
02:02:13,100 --> 02:02:16,400
This one right here.
Now look at this picture and

2064
02:02:16,400 --> 02:02:18,600
tell me that's not a fucking.
Just look at it.

2065
02:02:18,700 --> 02:02:21,600
It's another lady with a veil
but look at that lady's face.

2066
02:02:23,400 --> 02:02:27,400
you can tell it's like a It's
not.

2067
02:02:28,300 --> 02:02:30,500
Oh yeah she looks like a mask.
Yeah it looks like a freaking

2068
02:02:30,500 --> 02:02:33,300
statue or also fun fact.
Yes.

2069
02:02:34,200 --> 02:02:39,300
So the way so you've used
Photoshop, you are, you know,

2070
02:02:39,300 --> 02:02:42,600
that the different things on
Photoshop or referred to as

2071
02:02:42,600 --> 02:02:43,600
layers layers?
Yeah.

2072
02:02:43,600 --> 02:02:46,800
That goes back to stuff that you
had to do in Dark rooms, which I

2073
02:02:46,800 --> 02:02:50,200
also learned how to do in
college when we had a whole dark

2074
02:02:50,200 --> 02:02:56,500
room year.
Where you physically layered

2075
02:02:56,500 --> 02:03:01,600
things on top of your, like
exposure.

2076
02:03:02,000 --> 02:03:04,500
And that's when you like, turn
the light to expose it.

2077
02:03:04,500 --> 02:03:07,500
So there were actually ways that
you could, it's very plausible,

2078
02:03:07,500 --> 02:03:11,200
he did that here.
Yes, said of catching it in

2079
02:03:11,200 --> 02:03:15,100
picture because like I said,
when people walked onto the

2080
02:03:15,900 --> 02:03:19,800
exposure, it showed us blurry.
This looks almost like two

2081
02:03:19,800 --> 02:03:21,700
separate pictures next to each
other.

2082
02:03:21,700 --> 02:03:24,800
Yep, which he very well could
Could have merge those together

2083
02:03:24,800 --> 02:03:27,400
in the dark room.
It's really intriguing.

2084
02:03:27,400 --> 02:03:29,500
I didn't know any of that stuff
and tie.

2085
02:03:29,500 --> 02:03:32,200
I did it officially in school.
It's just recourse, you know, I

2086
02:03:32,208 --> 02:03:35,200
grew up on digital cameras.
So we spend the whole first year

2087
02:03:35,300 --> 02:03:39,200
just learning the old ways.
Goodness pain-in-the-ass

2088
02:03:39,200 --> 02:03:42,400
carrying around that big old
Honker I believe it and setting

2089
02:03:42,400 --> 02:03:49,600
it up in Philadelphia. so,
another person got their picture

2090
02:03:50,700 --> 02:03:55,500
taken is Sir.
Arthur Conan Doyle really love

2091
02:03:55,500 --> 02:03:58,700
it.
Do you remember him from Houdini

2092
02:03:59,500 --> 02:04:01,100
episode?
No, Sir.

2093
02:04:01,100 --> 02:04:03,000
Arthur Conan Doyle.
Oh yeah, of course.

2094
02:04:03,000 --> 02:04:06,900
He's loves his, he loves the
spiritualism.

2095
02:04:06,900 --> 02:04:09,300
He's and he's, you know, he's in
that scene.

2096
02:04:09,700 --> 02:04:13,400
So I'm not gonna lie, Sir,
Arthur Conan Doyle Spirit

2097
02:04:13,400 --> 02:04:15,800
picture.
So yeah, the picture you got was

2098
02:04:15,800 --> 02:04:25,800
of his dead sister. and oh, his
looks way more janky, but

2099
02:04:29,200 --> 02:04:33,500
Pricing price had this whole
group his magicians.

2100
02:04:33,700 --> 02:04:39,600
They had this plan to see if
they could prove this this

2101
02:04:40,200 --> 02:04:43,400
disproved.
I love it.

2102
02:04:43,400 --> 02:04:45,600
This is so funny.
Look at this one.

2103
02:04:45,600 --> 02:04:49,100
This proof hope.
Yeah this looks so bad.

2104
02:04:49,100 --> 02:04:51,500
Yeah.
It's just it's like a picture

2105
02:04:51,500 --> 02:04:54,100
just plopped on top of another
picture freaking terrible.

2106
02:04:54,200 --> 02:04:56,000
Who are these people being the
ghosts for?

2107
02:04:56,000 --> 02:04:59,100
Haven't, you know, I need to
find a book about Mm hope

2108
02:04:59,100 --> 02:05:02,300
because I'm like, I'm sure Lord,
who was, who are these actors?

2109
02:05:02,600 --> 02:05:05,600
Who are like, bat.
I'm gonna get my like five

2110
02:05:05,600 --> 02:05:09,200
dollars for the day to be a
ghost verbally.

2111
02:05:09,200 --> 02:05:11,300
Him hope.
I know.

2112
02:05:11,300 --> 02:05:13,400
I think it's could you use
anybody else at that point?

2113
02:05:13,400 --> 02:05:15,700
Once you were in one picture, he
couldn't use you again.

2114
02:05:15,700 --> 02:05:19,700
Yeah, probably not.
Oh, it's beautiful.

2115
02:05:20,100 --> 02:05:22,800
It's just super funny when you
put this on YouTube, you just

2116
02:05:22,800 --> 02:05:24,600
have to show all these pictures
that I'm laughing.

2117
02:05:28,100 --> 02:05:31,800
This is the good one.
Okay, there is the mask.

2118
02:05:31,800 --> 02:05:33,600
Isn't it?
Looks it looks a little bit like

2119
02:05:33,600 --> 02:05:35,300
a mass, but she also looks kind
of real.

2120
02:05:35,900 --> 02:05:37,800
It's just a weird Veil.
And I just like chilling.

2121
02:05:37,800 --> 02:05:39,400
They're like okay, we're taking
a picture.

2122
02:05:39,600 --> 02:05:43,300
Okay, okay but my thing is, when
you think it was like a little

2123
02:05:43,300 --> 02:05:48,300
bit Suspicious that he was able
to get all of these Spirit

2124
02:05:48,300 --> 02:05:52,500
photos and show many of them are
in just such good detail and

2125
02:05:52,500 --> 02:05:56,100
it's 1922, that's why he had
investigators coming to check

2126
02:05:56,100 --> 02:06:00,400
him out.
Okay, so like I said Harry price

2127
02:06:00,500 --> 02:06:03,600
and his crew magicians they have
this they have this method

2128
02:06:03,600 --> 02:06:10,800
worked out and so What it was,
is it consistent of presenting,

2129
02:06:10,800 --> 02:06:15,500
hope, with a set of glass
negatives that had been secretly

2130
02:06:15,500 --> 02:06:21,300
marked with x-rays.
So it's trap worked.

2131
02:06:22,000 --> 02:06:26,700
So when hope return the plates,
the one, the one continue the

2132
02:06:26,700 --> 02:06:30,200
extra Spirit image.
Yeah, showed no sign of the

2133
02:06:30,200 --> 02:06:32,900
markings he used his own.
Yep.

2134
02:06:32,900 --> 02:06:36,300
So you switched out the ones
that the X-ray ones with his

2135
02:06:36,300 --> 02:06:42,100
own, gotcha.
So yeah, like I said, but you

2136
02:06:42,100 --> 02:06:44,100
could very easily just been
like, oh, I like to use my own

2137
02:06:44,100 --> 02:06:47,900
supplies but he let people bring
their own plates in the stuff

2138
02:06:47,900 --> 02:06:49,100
too.
Okay.

2139
02:06:49,100 --> 02:06:52,900
So it was just weird that he
would switch it out, you know?

2140
02:06:52,900 --> 02:06:56,600
They're mean if you have people
bring us up.

2141
02:06:56,800 --> 02:07:01,800
Okay, so he's called they're
like okay dude we know you

2142
02:07:01,800 --> 02:07:05,600
switched out, this is this this
is what happened and you know so

2143
02:07:05,600 --> 02:07:07,900
he was doing this during the the
- process.

2144
02:07:07,900 --> 02:07:11,000
Yeah.
So, after, you know, they find

2145
02:07:11,000 --> 02:07:16,400
him guilty of this spiritualist
spiritualism was like, no, no,

2146
02:07:16,400 --> 02:07:19,500
you guys just out here.
You're trying to frame our boy

2147
02:07:19,600 --> 02:07:23,500
for.
Okay, you guys little medium

2148
02:07:23,500 --> 02:07:25,400
buddies to show.
Ya trim.

2149
02:07:25,400 --> 02:07:27,700
Frame of really hope like the
community.

2150
02:07:29,700 --> 02:07:33,000
They are supportive but for the
wrong.

2151
02:07:33,200 --> 02:07:35,000
Oh, no.
He's better wrong.

2152
02:07:35,000 --> 02:07:37,400
They're wrong for supporting him
because he definitely picked it

2153
02:07:38,000 --> 02:07:42,100
and they were Faking it to they
were if you mess it, if you mess

2154
02:07:42,100 --> 02:07:46,400
him up, you mess us up.
So yeah, they're like you're

2155
02:07:46,400 --> 02:07:48,200
wrong for trying to like expose
him as a fraud.

2156
02:07:48,200 --> 02:07:52,600
Like even Conan Doyle he was
like, he came to the, you know,

2157
02:07:52,600 --> 02:07:56,800
Harry price and screws like hey
guys, could you like recant what

2158
02:07:56,800 --> 02:08:00,700
you said about Hope?
Because I believe he's.

2159
02:08:00,700 --> 02:08:02,500
All right.
And there we else's, and we

2160
02:08:02,500 --> 02:08:05,200
don't want to see anything.
Like, let's see, him going down

2161
02:08:05,200 --> 02:08:10,500
the time, basically, we just
want to believe in ghosts, but

2162
02:08:10,600 --> 02:08:13,500
there are people out there who
believe in this, and they're

2163
02:08:13,500 --> 02:08:17,200
being hurt by this.
You know, like what the Houdini

2164
02:08:17,200 --> 02:08:20,600
thing, people are going to these
mediums like, expecting an

2165
02:08:20,600 --> 02:08:22,500
actual real experience, and
they're going to be putting

2166
02:08:22,900 --> 02:08:26,400
their entire life savings on
these mediums.

2167
02:08:26,400 --> 02:08:30,200
They spent all of their money
chasing after this idea that

2168
02:08:30,200 --> 02:08:34,200
they could see or hear, or talk
to their dead relatives again,

2169
02:08:34,500 --> 02:08:39,200
it was real bad.
Yes.

2170
02:08:39,500 --> 02:08:44,600
So I do feel bad about that.
Yeah, that sucks.

2171
02:08:44,600 --> 02:08:58,700
Yeah, so once Okay so When when
Conan goes to price and he's

2172
02:08:58,700 --> 02:09:01,000
like can you do this in prices
like nah?

2173
02:09:01,000 --> 02:09:05,600
Brah.
Like this is this is what I do

2174
02:09:08,300 --> 02:09:11,900
so.
So he goes and writes his

2175
02:09:11,900 --> 02:09:17,400
pamphlet about his side of the
story and how you know it's

2176
02:09:17,400 --> 02:09:18,800
serious when there's a pamphlet.
Oh yeah.

2177
02:09:18,800 --> 02:09:22,600
Definitely in about you know how
hoped William hope is like this?

2178
02:09:22,900 --> 02:09:28,800
He's right about this stuff.
I'll remind you guys Conan

2179
02:09:28,800 --> 02:09:30,900
Doyle.
He was a believer of all things,

2180
02:09:30,900 --> 02:09:34,800
paranormal and spiritual and he
didn't like being wrong.

2181
02:09:35,000 --> 02:09:39,000
So he even went as far as the
contacting his good buddy.

2182
02:09:39,000 --> 02:09:43,000
Harry Houdini at this time to.
I think they're still friends at

2183
02:09:43,000 --> 02:09:45,400
this time.
He's before they like completely

2184
02:09:45,400 --> 02:09:47,500
had that following.
Yeah, I believe so.

2185
02:09:49,300 --> 02:09:52,600
Can you get your fellow magic
buddy and tell him to leave me

2186
02:09:52,600 --> 02:09:58,200
alone and Houdini was kind of
like conflicted, right?

2187
02:09:58,200 --> 02:10:01,900
When because at this time, he
was also on his way to go

2188
02:10:01,900 --> 02:10:13,600
investigate.
Hope this like this man is just

2189
02:10:13,600 --> 02:10:16,100
lying.
That wasn't really your sister.

2190
02:10:18,300 --> 02:10:22,100
Oh my God.
L write another book so I have

2191
02:10:22,100 --> 02:10:25,600
what he wrote to Houdini.
So he wrote this letter to ready

2192
02:10:25,800 --> 02:10:31,600
on April 13th. 1922 and he
writes I've written a book on

2193
02:10:31,600 --> 02:10:34,700
Psychic photography with special
reference to the crew.

2194
02:10:34,700 --> 02:10:39,900
Circle the evidence in their
favour is overwhelming though.

2195
02:10:40,000 --> 02:10:43,300
What happened on a special
occasion with two, amateur

2196
02:10:43,300 --> 02:10:49,000
conjurer's out of his stunts in
a third dingwall behind them?

2197
02:10:49,100 --> 02:10:52,100
What it is, is more than I can
say.

2198
02:10:53,800 --> 02:10:59,600
We found that another test was
in dependably carried out about

2199
02:10:59,600 --> 02:11:02,500
the same time.
Well, I guess my other is

2200
02:11:02,500 --> 02:11:04,100
situation.
So they're talking about the,

2201
02:11:04,100 --> 02:11:08,100
the silver plates, right?
The ones that they that means is

2202
02:11:08,100 --> 02:11:11,200
how you did photos back that.
Yeah.

2203
02:11:11,500 --> 02:11:14,500
And so, they're saying that they
had little bits in the, the

2204
02:11:14,500 --> 02:11:19,000
silver plates.
I don't think what they got.

2205
02:11:19,100 --> 02:11:22,000
I think Hope was a total fraud,
but I don't think what they got

2206
02:11:22,000 --> 02:11:24,400
was really enough to say.
He was a complete and total

2207
02:11:24,400 --> 02:11:29,400
fraud, I guess, since he
switched the plates out, Could

2208
02:11:29,400 --> 02:11:30,700
he could have come up with an E
lot.

2209
02:11:30,700 --> 02:11:33,900
Like it'll come up with loads of
logical reasons why you may be a

2210
02:11:33,900 --> 02:11:35,600
broke.
You know, the array.

2211
02:11:35,800 --> 02:11:37,800
I'm so sorry.
Your Originals got messed up.

2212
02:11:37,800 --> 02:11:41,300
I had to use my own instead,
like I feel like you was just a

2213
02:11:41,300 --> 02:11:46,100
bad shyster because I'm come up
with a good lie as to why he

2214
02:11:46,100 --> 02:11:47,800
used a different one.
Well, you probably wasn't caught

2215
02:11:47,800 --> 02:11:50,900
before either church and so he's
like, oh yeah, little that we

2216
02:11:50,900 --> 02:11:52,400
call that.
Like, they think that they're

2217
02:11:52,400 --> 02:11:55,600
like, you know, a humorous.
Yeah, he had a little bit of

2218
02:11:55,608 --> 02:11:57,100
that hubris.
And that's like, really, what

2219
02:11:57,100 --> 02:11:58,900
messed him up.
Up them, like I can think of a

2220
02:11:58,900 --> 02:12:02,300
million reasons why I would be
like nah, I use my own stuff.

2221
02:12:03,200 --> 02:12:06,100
Yep.
So after he writes this letter

2222
02:12:06,100 --> 02:12:09,500
to, you know, Houdini Houdini's
like, hmm, not really impressed

2223
02:12:09,500 --> 02:12:13,300
by this sir.
So, like I said, yeah, well I

2224
02:12:13,308 --> 02:12:16,000
love his reasoning.
Listen, I wrote a book and like

2225
02:12:16,400 --> 02:12:20,400
if you release this information,
my books going to be wrong.

2226
02:12:20,400 --> 02:12:26,100
He thinks ticklish.
So like can you know, I can you

2227
02:12:26,100 --> 02:12:29,800
like comment down over there
with Your and I get it but like

2228
02:12:30,300 --> 02:12:35,300
I have a book to sell sir.
So like doesn't matter because

2229
02:12:35,300 --> 02:12:37,200
after where they're no longer
friends anymore?

2230
02:12:37,200 --> 02:12:40,900
Yeah.
So like I said, burn that

2231
02:12:40,900 --> 02:12:44,000
bridge, right?
He really did, he really did it

2232
02:12:44,000 --> 02:12:47,500
was bad Houdini was already on
his way?

2233
02:12:47,500 --> 02:12:50,500
Well, he was yeah, he was
planning on going to investigate

2234
02:12:50,500 --> 02:12:53,000
William hope, but they got there
first.

2235
02:12:53,000 --> 02:12:55,700
Okay, what do scheduling Houdini
couldn't go?

2236
02:12:55,700 --> 02:12:59,000
So he had someone else it in on
and get a picture taken for him.

2237
02:12:59,700 --> 02:13:03,200
He did the same thing.
That that price did.

2238
02:13:03,200 --> 02:13:09,400
What do you know the plates?
And I will say, it's It shows

2239
02:13:09,400 --> 02:13:14,200
some level of skill, we're
talking mid-1920s being able to

2240
02:13:14,600 --> 02:13:19,500
to do that and make it look like
oh, yeah, absolutely Sir, Arthur

2241
02:13:19,500 --> 02:13:22,100
Conan Conan.
Doyle's, actual sister.

2242
02:13:22,200 --> 02:13:25,500
Yeah, that's skill.
That means that he had to

2243
02:13:25,500 --> 02:13:31,400
manufacture a lot of drawing and
adjustments, which also explains

2244
02:13:31,400 --> 02:13:35,100
why he couldn't use, just that
one play here because he was

2245
02:13:35,100 --> 02:13:38,100
probably using multiple layers
of to get that image.

2246
02:13:39,300 --> 02:13:41,700
You could tell like that one.
You just showed me what the big

2247
02:13:41,700 --> 02:13:44,600
face and like the middle.
You can tell it's like different

2248
02:13:44,600 --> 02:13:46,300
plates on top of.
Yeah, yeah.

2249
02:13:46,300 --> 02:13:49,100
So I mean that would explain why
he didn't have.

2250
02:13:49,100 --> 02:13:51,000
It wasn't done with just one.
Yeah.

2251
02:13:51,100 --> 02:13:53,500
It was done with multiple
layers, you still very

2252
02:13:53,500 --> 02:13:55,700
interesting.
It really is like you, you put

2253
02:13:55,700 --> 02:13:58,500
in the work for this.
I like you're still faking a

2254
02:13:58,500 --> 02:14:02,000
fraud, but you put into words
what an impressive way of using

2255
02:14:02,000 --> 02:14:07,500
your skill set?
Oh, goodness.

2256
02:14:08,100 --> 02:14:11,700
There's, there's important
things you can do in post like

2257
02:14:11,700 --> 02:14:14,100
the whole concept of like
dodging photos and things of

2258
02:14:14,100 --> 02:14:17,600
that nature, that's done in
post, when you're, you know,

2259
02:14:17,600 --> 02:14:19,900
making something darker, making
something lighter, that that

2260
02:14:19,900 --> 02:14:23,700
process is useful and can make
the picture look better.

2261
02:14:23,800 --> 02:14:25,700
Yeah, he just did all that
stuff.

2262
02:14:25,800 --> 02:14:28,300
Just to lie to make a quick
buck.

2263
02:14:30,700 --> 02:14:33,900
So after, you know, Houdini does
this thing.

2264
02:14:35,600 --> 02:14:40,400
Sir, Sir Arthur Conan Doyle?
Okay, he writes another letter

2265
02:14:40,400 --> 02:14:44,400
to Houdini.
Oh no, basically saying that.

2266
02:14:44,500 --> 02:14:47,600
Okay, so we're not friends
anymore.

2267
02:14:48,000 --> 02:14:54,500
No nothing.
He writes and says, hey, those

2268
02:14:54,500 --> 02:14:56,800
place, I had those x-ray
markings on them.

2269
02:14:57,000 --> 02:14:59,600
Those x-ray markings they
disappear after a while.

2270
02:14:59,800 --> 02:15:05,100
So, obviously he wasn't used.
He did use their place at the

2271
02:15:05,200 --> 02:15:08,500
They did that, they brought but
the X-ray markings disappeared.

2272
02:15:09,200 --> 02:15:12,600
Hmm.
So, after you get this letter,

2273
02:15:12,600 --> 02:15:15,800
Houdini was like all right,
sometimes I'm tired of being

2274
02:15:15,800 --> 02:15:18,400
like the middleman.
So he goes and he contacts

2275
02:15:18,400 --> 02:15:21,900
price.
So Harry price in Houdini Dirk

2276
02:15:21,900 --> 02:15:24,500
under buddy, buddy.
So they're kind of cool guys

2277
02:15:24,500 --> 02:15:29,100
together.
And he tells price about the,

2278
02:15:29,200 --> 02:15:30,900
you know, the X-ray, your stuff
in prices.

2279
02:15:30,900 --> 02:15:34,700
Like dude, I'm all right.
On top of this because I know

2280
02:15:34,700 --> 02:15:37,700
for a fact, he's x-ray markings,
don't disappear.

2281
02:15:37,800 --> 02:15:40,500
Yeah.
When you said that my face did a

2282
02:15:40,800 --> 02:15:43,800
what?
Yeah that's not how that works

2283
02:15:43,800 --> 02:15:51,100
at all.
I'm like whatever sir the whale.

2284
02:15:51,200 --> 02:15:55,100
Yeah and who do you like all
right cool.

2285
02:15:55,100 --> 02:16:00,900
Cool long as you know All right.
So I like that, though.

2286
02:16:00,900 --> 02:16:04,700
I'm not a professional courtesy
for people uncovering fraud.

2287
02:16:04,800 --> 02:16:07,200
Absolutely, just letting you
know, he's saying that you gave

2288
02:16:07,200 --> 02:16:10,200
him bad plates.
It disappeared.

2289
02:16:10,200 --> 02:16:12,600
It was your fault.
He's like, no.

2290
02:16:12,600 --> 02:16:13,900
No, don't worry.
I got this.

2291
02:16:13,900 --> 02:16:18,000
Yeah, there's there's this whole
back and forth between these

2292
02:16:18,000 --> 02:16:20,500
three guys.
Okay, the Houdini just being the

2293
02:16:20,500 --> 02:16:23,400
middleman with Nicole.
You couldn't do it.

2294
02:16:23,407 --> 02:16:27,500
You just coming to him and
saying, hey, your body price is

2295
02:16:27,500 --> 02:16:31,100
wrong about this and this is why
it would be so annoyed.

2296
02:16:31,100 --> 02:16:34,799
Yeah, and phrases like, yo, get
your boy Conan Doyle out of here

2297
02:16:34,799 --> 02:16:38,100
because he's, he's harassing the
hell out of me and my group.

2298
02:16:40,400 --> 02:16:42,200
We're just trying to take
pictures of ghosts.

2299
02:16:42,200 --> 02:16:46,100
God.
Oh my God.

2300
02:16:48,799 --> 02:16:50,900
I tell ya, I only want to see a
picture of a ghost somewhere

2301
02:16:50,900 --> 02:16:53,400
that I'm never coming back to.
Because if his ones in my house

2302
02:16:53,400 --> 02:16:57,799
like this yellow house now, fam,
Guess you live here?

2303
02:16:57,799 --> 02:17:03,200
Yeah but soon years later.
Okay Conan Doyle he admits

2304
02:17:03,200 --> 02:17:06,700
defeat.
After years years of harassing

2305
02:17:06,700 --> 02:17:10,000
Harry price about just this one
thing.

2306
02:17:10,500 --> 02:17:12,900
Like I mean they didn't ever
released the book though.

2307
02:17:13,900 --> 02:17:14,900
The pamphlet?
Yeah.

2308
02:17:14,900 --> 02:17:16,299
Yeah, I'm pretty sure you did
well.

2309
02:17:16,299 --> 02:17:20,299
Did he release the book about
how he had studied ghosts

2310
02:17:20,299 --> 02:17:22,900
photography and all that stuff?
I'm pretty sure he did.

2311
02:17:22,900 --> 02:17:25,000
We look up.
If you look him up, I'm pretty

2312
02:17:25,000 --> 02:17:28,100
sure you'll find it.
But I want to know he's like I'm

2313
02:17:28,100 --> 02:17:29,400
just gonna release this book
anyway.

2314
02:17:29,400 --> 02:17:39,500
Screw it.
But yeah, that's funny but like

2315
02:17:39,500 --> 02:17:44,600
I said they dropped their whole
career Harry price in Sir Arthur

2316
02:17:44,900 --> 02:17:47,500
Arthur Conan Doyle.
They never saw eye-to-eye to

2317
02:17:47,500 --> 02:17:50,100
fight.
They just stopped to fight each

2318
02:17:50,100 --> 02:17:51,100
other.
It's crazy.

2319
02:17:51,100 --> 02:17:54,200
It was crazy.
And like paraphrase, he was like

2320
02:17:54,200 --> 02:17:58,400
the nicer version of Houdini.
Like, he gave me was a benefit

2321
02:17:58,400 --> 02:18:01,100
of the doubt and Houdini was
like, all right.

2322
02:18:01,100 --> 02:18:02,700
I know you're faking from.
Neither thing.

2323
02:18:02,700 --> 02:18:04,700
Is that Houdini's?
Just like, I'm just gonna have

2324
02:18:04,700 --> 02:18:06,400
some He crawled under this
fucking tape.

2325
02:18:09,700 --> 02:18:12,900
Watch your legs.
Oh my God.

2326
02:18:14,400 --> 02:18:18,200
So after exposing after this
whole situation, whole thing is

2327
02:18:18,200 --> 02:18:21,000
blown over now.
And after exposed like this is

2328
02:18:21,000 --> 02:18:26,100
his first case I mind you.
So after exposing a few more

2329
02:18:26,100 --> 02:18:31,299
people at the spr Harry price,
he starts his own organizations

2330
02:18:31,299 --> 02:18:34,900
called the National Laboratory
of physical research.

2331
02:18:36,400 --> 02:18:39,500
He gets a little bit of flak
from the spr that he was in,

2332
02:18:40,000 --> 02:18:43,400
because he actually paid his
median, the mediums that he came

2333
02:18:43,400 --> 02:18:48,700
that came in to his test.
He paid them for a time and

2334
02:18:48,700 --> 02:18:51,400
they're like, don't don't be
paying these mediums.

2335
02:18:51,500 --> 02:18:54,600
Like, they might be frauds, how
are you paying these frogs?

2336
02:18:54,600 --> 02:18:57,700
You know what I mean?
You're just giving money to

2337
02:18:58,799 --> 02:19:02,400
frogs.
I'm just saying because that's

2338
02:19:02,400 --> 02:19:05,799
like, yeah, but like, they're
there.

2339
02:19:06,100 --> 02:19:08,900
Spr whole thing was, you know,
we're going to find out these,

2340
02:19:09,000 --> 02:19:11,900
you know, or find these mediums
that are, you know, doing

2341
02:19:11,900 --> 02:19:14,000
fraudulent readings and stuff
like that.

2342
02:19:14,700 --> 02:19:20,400
But here prizes like well yeah,
but they're coming to me to do

2343
02:19:20,400 --> 02:19:23,400
the readings and stuff.
So I'm gonna give him the

2344
02:19:23,400 --> 02:19:27,500
painting for the time and you
know, it's only fair and I agree

2345
02:19:27,500 --> 02:19:36,200
with you like what he did there.
so, there are many more cases

2346
02:19:36,200 --> 02:19:39,000
like I said in the beginning
that your price was involved in

2347
02:19:39,700 --> 02:19:43,100
this was this one was just like
the tip of the iceberg, like his

2348
02:19:43,100 --> 02:19:49,100
starting point, and I will be
covering One or two more, maybe

2349
02:19:49,200 --> 02:19:51,200
like there's a big one.
I'm going to cover it like next

2350
02:19:51,200 --> 02:19:52,000
week's.
Okay.

2351
02:19:53,200 --> 02:19:59,800
But either way, Price was
praised for his work at, you

2352
02:19:59,800 --> 02:20:03,600
know, the bunking, fake mediums
and his paranormal investigation

2353
02:20:03,600 --> 02:20:06,900
skills.
Okay, there have been several

2354
02:20:06,900 --> 02:20:11,700
biographies written about Harry
price, some critical some

2355
02:20:11,700 --> 02:20:15,400
sympathetic so very, very
critical.

2356
02:20:15,700 --> 02:20:18,300
There was one that was released
in 2006.

2357
02:20:18,300 --> 02:20:23,500
I about how he was a con man in
stuff like that.

2358
02:20:23,700 --> 02:20:26,400
It was like, dude.
Dude, I'm pretty sure know that

2359
02:20:26,400 --> 02:20:29,800
that he was exposing the con
people, true.

2360
02:20:32,000 --> 02:20:36,600
I mean, yeah, we're out here to
bunking things and mediums.

2361
02:20:36,800 --> 02:20:40,100
There are people out there who
are writers and who don't like

2362
02:20:40,100 --> 02:20:41,500
you even write bad things about
you.

2363
02:20:43,200 --> 02:20:50,000
Yeah no I understood.
Yeah so price would later died

2364
02:20:50,400 --> 02:20:57,900
at his home or March 29th. 1948
from a massive heart attack and

2365
02:20:59,100 --> 02:21:06,600
that's what I got for this week.
It's not as long as I should

2366
02:21:07,300 --> 02:21:09,700
just wait until next week.
I got some stuff for you.

2367
02:21:09,700 --> 02:21:12,200
It's going to make you laugh and
it's going to be funny.

2368
02:21:12,300 --> 02:21:19,100
So we interesting, it's gonna be
compelling All right.

2369
02:21:20,800 --> 02:21:22,300
Well, I'm interested more
stories.

2370
02:21:22,400 --> 02:21:26,900
Good, you're getting more,
you're going to get more.

2371
02:21:26,900 --> 02:21:30,100
What do you like it or not?
Goodness.

2372
02:21:31,500 --> 02:21:35,200
Well, I just interesting path
we've taken today.

2373
02:21:35,200 --> 02:21:37,700
Yeah, I just, I don't know.
I just like, I like the game of

2374
02:21:37,700 --> 02:21:39,700
telephone between these
grown-ass, man.

2375
02:21:42,300 --> 02:21:46,800
I just like how you got here
your price or just know.

2376
02:21:46,800 --> 02:21:48,100
They're they're doing the same
thing.

2377
02:21:48,300 --> 02:21:53,300
So they're buddies, they have
their own community, and then

2378
02:21:53,300 --> 02:21:57,800
you have Conan Doyle out here
with his group of spiritualist.

2379
02:21:57,800 --> 02:22:01,800
And they're just like, look,
we're gonna curse you and you

2380
02:22:01,800 --> 02:22:04,500
all this stuff, if you don't
stop telling the truth.

2381
02:22:05,800 --> 02:22:10,000
Oh, I just love.
I just love to debunking and

2382
02:22:10,000 --> 02:22:12,300
just invasive investigation into
the stuff.

2383
02:22:12,300 --> 02:22:16,700
It's really awesome.
But yeah, that's it for me.

2384
02:22:18,200 --> 02:22:20,600
Hope you guys enjoyed the
episode this week.

2385
02:22:20,700 --> 02:22:23,400
Yeah, I think we had a good
time.

2386
02:22:23,700 --> 02:22:24,900
Yeah, always.
Have a good time.

2387
02:22:24,900 --> 02:22:27,600
Is always fun.
And then your story is always.

2388
02:22:28,800 --> 02:22:33,300
They always throw me for a loop.
That's because the the shortened

2389
02:22:33,300 --> 02:22:36,500
version of what we know.
Like, there's always so much

2390
02:22:36,500 --> 02:22:40,900
more to it, so there's always a
backstory to something.

2391
02:22:43,000 --> 02:22:46,500
Yeah, somebody told me that they
listen to last week's podcast

2392
02:22:46,500 --> 02:22:48,600
three times.
What?

2393
02:22:48,600 --> 02:22:52,000
Yeah, I was like, oh well.
Thank you.

2394
02:22:54,000 --> 02:22:56,100
Oh, my God.
Why why did you do that?

2395
02:22:56,700 --> 02:23:01,700
I guess they were really into
You mad at me?

2396
02:23:02,000 --> 02:23:04,000
Were you also mad that you
learned?

2397
02:23:04,100 --> 02:23:08,000
What was as Catherine night?
Yeah, you learned that her first

2398
02:23:08,100 --> 02:23:11,100
husband or whatever was cheating
on her when she was accusing him

2399
02:23:11,100 --> 02:23:13,500
of cheating on her and I was
like, no, he was cheating on

2400
02:23:13,508 --> 02:23:15,300
her, but he's actually cheating
on her.

2401
02:23:15,400 --> 02:23:17,600
Yeah, you were really upset when
I brought that point out.

2402
02:23:17,800 --> 02:23:21,900
You were like, wait, no, like,
how dare you sir?

2403
02:23:22,600 --> 02:23:25,600
Oh my God, dang it for being a
scoundrel.

2404
02:23:25,600 --> 02:23:29,200
He still didn't deserve to be
like beat with a frying pan.

2405
02:23:29,300 --> 02:23:31,800
No fan.
Okay, no, he did not but he

2406
02:23:31,800 --> 02:23:36,600
also, but regardless, thank you
for listening to the 30-some

2407
02:23:36,600 --> 02:23:39,700
percent of people who stay till
the very end do.

2408
02:23:39,700 --> 02:23:41,800
Yeah, you're also do stay in the
end.

2409
02:23:41,800 --> 02:23:46,900
I actually just would love to
invite you to be a part of this

2410
02:23:46,900 --> 02:23:48,500
with us.
We have so many ways that you

2411
02:23:48,500 --> 02:23:50,900
can talk to us more.
Some of those are through

2412
02:23:50,900 --> 02:23:54,400
patreon, you can send messages,
we respond through patreon.

2413
02:23:54,700 --> 02:23:58,300
Ryan talks to people on there.
Like I said, for people who do

2414
02:23:58,300 --> 02:24:03,200
do the 50, Dollar tear, you get
to have a Q&A with us once a

2415
02:24:03,200 --> 02:24:04,700
month.
You can talk about whatever you

2416
02:24:04,700 --> 02:24:07,500
like.
You can give us any sort of

2417
02:24:07,500 --> 02:24:12,300
criticism that you want.
We have our own little like I am

2418
02:24:12,300 --> 02:24:17,600
a once a month you have access
to the extra podcast.

2419
02:24:17,600 --> 02:24:20,200
Yep which is gonna get spooky
this October.

2420
02:24:20,200 --> 02:24:26,500
Oh goodness, working on it along
with a lot of other things.

2421
02:24:29,400 --> 02:24:34,200
So, thank you for listening.
Yeah, we appreciate it a night.