Gisèle Pelicot: Shame Must Change Sides

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100 episodes When I started this
journey, the goal was simple, to

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understand how justice is served
when the unthinkable happens and

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together over the.
Last five years.

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We followed the evidence.
And studied the psychology.

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We've traced the path all the
way.

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To the moment the handcuffs
click shut.

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And then we've sat in the
aftermath looking at how these

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crimes fracture not just
individuals, but entire

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communities.
So the first thing I want to say

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is thank you for being here with
me through the evolution of this

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show, through old Co hosts,
different styles and my own

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growth every single day today on
this milestone episode of When

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Killers.
Get caught the story.

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Isn't just about a.
Capture.

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It's about reckoning.
It began with a mundane moment

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in a supermarket, Amazon France,
a man caught taking photos he

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never should have been taking.
At first it looked like an

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isolated crime.
But when the police opened his

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hard drives, they didn't just
find a predator.

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They found a blueprint.
They found a system.

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A decade of betrayal.
Meticulously documented and

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organized.
Giselle Pellicott was his wife.

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She was a mother, a grandmother,
a professional and for 10 years

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her husband, Dominique
Pellicott, drugged her into

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unconsciousness and invited
dozens of strangers into their

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home.
To assault her, he.

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Filmed it.
Catalogued it and archived it.

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He believed he was the director
of a private horror show.

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But Dominique made a fatal
mistake.

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He underestimated his wife when
the truth finally broke the

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world.
Expected Giselle to disappear.

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They expected her like.
So many survivors to choose

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anonymity we will all would have
understood.

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Being the face of such a
monumental horror comes with a

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scrutiny that few can withstand.
Instead, Giselle stood up.

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She walked into that courtroom,
looked her attacker in the face

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and declared shame must change
sides.

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Today we follow Giselle's
courage.

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From the courtrooms of Avignon
to the chilling reality that

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this was never just about one
man.

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This is a.
Pattern a network of everyday

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men hiding in plain sight.
Sexual violence is a unique kind

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of harm.
It is deeply personal, uniquely

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devastating, and life altering
in ways that don't simply fade.

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It changes how you move through
the world.

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How you see yourself.
How you learn to exist in your

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own body.
Again, I'll be honest.

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This episode was hard.
For me to write, and it's a hard

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one to tell, but the value in
this story is greater than my

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own comfort.
This episode is for the

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survivors.
It is not.

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For the perpetrators.
It is not for.

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Their excuses.
Or the narratives that try to

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make sense of what is senseless.
This is for Giselle.

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For Zoe.
For Amanda.

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For Valentina.
It is for every.

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Person known and unknown, who
has had to reclaim their body,

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their autonomy and their story
from the shadows.

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For those who understand this
kind of pain and the

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unimaginable strength.
It takes to keep.

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Going after it changes.
Your life forever you're.

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Listening to When Killers Get
Caught and I'm Brittany Ransom

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and today the shame changes
sides.

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Before we begin, a brief but
important note.

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Today's episode does discuss
sexual assault drug.

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Facilitated abuse and systemic
violence.

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These are heavy topics.
And I want you to.

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Take care of yourself.
While listening.

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If you need to skip this one, I
understand and I'll.

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See you at episode. 101.
We go back to where this story

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actually.
Begins.

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It didn't start in a courtroom,
and it wasn't a headline.

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It was an ordinary Tuesday and
September of 2020 inside of a

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supermarket, Amazon France.
Picture this.

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The mundane sounds of shopping
carts clicking, people debating

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what to have for dinner, the hum
of fluorescent lights.

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Among the shoppers is an older
man.

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He isn't carrying a basket.
He isn't looking at the shelves.

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He's lingering, loitering in the
aisles, moving too close to

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women watching.
Store security is the. 1st to

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notice that something is wrong.
He's holding his phone at an

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angle that doesn't make sense,
low and deliberate, with the

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camera pointed upward.
He's taking pictures of women

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under their skirts.
In the legal world, this is

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often treated as a contained
offence, what the French might

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call a delit, a medium level
crime.

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It's the kind of thing people
often minimize, assuming it ends

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with a shameful arrest, maybe a
fine, a stern warning, at worst,

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a few years in prison.
But when the police arrive and

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take Dominique Pellicott into
custody, the dominoes begin to

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fall.
His phone is confiscated.

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A warrant is issued for every
electronic device in his home

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from the precinct Dominique
makes a phone call to.

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His wife, Giselle, he confesses,
but he filters the truth.

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He tells her he has.
Disgusting urges, he admits to

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the supermarket photos and
Giselle in a testament to. 50

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years of trust she thought they
shared says she's shocked for

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sure, but she's a dedicated
spouse.

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She tells him she'll help him,
she'll find him a doctor.

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They'll get through this
together, but.

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What Dominique didn't tell her.
Was the police were.

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Already at their front door, and
as Giselle was promising her

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support, forensic investigators
were opening up.

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Hard drives they expected.
To find more photos.

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Instead, what they found was
much worse.

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They uncovered a digital file
system so organized it was

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almost clinical.
There were folders, subfolders.

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Labels, dates, detailed notes.
This wasn't just a.

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Collection.
It was a methodical,

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professional archive, over
20,000 videos and photos spread

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across multiple hard drives,
computers and.

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USB sticks seized.
From the Pellicott home.

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Every device they pulled.
From a dash.

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Drawer or a.
Closet was another piece of this

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digital mausoleum.
A library of a decade's worth

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of.
Trauma meticulously preserved

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and curated by the man who
claimed to love her.

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As the investigators move deeper
into the data, the air in the

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room must have changed.
The scale began to shift what

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looked like a momentary.
Urge revealed itself to be a

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decade.
Of controlled chilling.

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Repeated depravity.
They weren't just looking at a

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man who took pictures in a
grocery store.

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They were looking at a man who
had turned his marriage into a

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hunting ground.
And then the investigators

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reached the most harrowing
realization of it all.

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They realized that the woman in
the videos, the woman being

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assaulted by dozens of
strangers, the woman who was

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sleeping through a nightmare,
was the same woman waiting at

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home, believing her husband was
just a man who had made a single

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strange mistake.
The police now had one job left

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to do.
They had to go.

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Tell this woman in the home with
the blue.

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Shutters tell the devoted.
Wife.

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That she was the.
Victim in the majority.

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Of these videos, they had to
tell.

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Her that for 10 years, the man
she loved had orchestrated one

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of the most heinous crimes
France had seen in.

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Decades.
Giselle's peaceful life was

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over.
And the investigation?

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Was just beginning.
Giselle Pellicott was.

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Never meant to be a headline
before, she was a symbol of.

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Courage or a case?
File in a courtroom.

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She was simply a woman living
what?

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She called a perfect.
French Life.

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By day, her.
Existence was peaceful, defined

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by the quiet rhythms of a woman
who had earned her rest.

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She was born in 1952 in
Villingen, West Germany, the

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daughter of a French soldier.
But the stability of her early

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years was.
Short lived, her mother died of

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cancer when Giselle was only 9
and like so many other children

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of loss, she navigated A
fractured home life and strained

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relationship with a stepmother.
A struggle that fueled her deep,

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quiet desire to build a.
Happy, independent world of her

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own as soon as she was able.
Giselle Chase that happiness she

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built a formidable.
Career rising to the ranks of a

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French utility company to become
a high level.

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Executive.
And at 19, she met Dominique.

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They were just kids when they
fell in love, marrying in 1973.

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And for nearly 50.
Years, they were the bedrock of

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each other's lives.
They raised three children.

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David, Caroline and Florian, and
eventually.

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Traded the bustle of the Paris
suburbs.

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For the sun drenched piece of
Amazon in southern France, their

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home.
With its bright blue.

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Shutters and backyard.
Pool.

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Became the sanctuary where 7
grandchildren came to play.

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It was idyllic.
And built on 1/2 century of

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trust.
At least that's what she

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thought.
The shift began in 2011.

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It was subtle at.
First, strange, inexplicable

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red.
Flags that Giselle would.

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Later recount in her memoir A
Hymn to Life, there was the

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drink Dominique handed her that
had a.

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Particular.
Green Sheen when she questioned

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it.
He wordlessly.

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Poured it down the sink.
There was a time she found a

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bleach like stain on her clothes
and jokingly asked him.

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Did you drug me and Dominique?
Reacted with performative

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horror.
A master class in gaslighting

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that silenced her intuition, but
the missing time just grew

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entire.
Stretches of her life.

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Begin to vanish.
She would wake up.

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Disoriented, unable to account
for hours or full nights, like

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anyone losing their grip on
their own timeline, she turned

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to science for answers.
She went to a neurologist.

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She went to her gynecologist,
Describing these blackouts in

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the terrifying fog with no
answer insight a dark.

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Fear took root.
Giselle believed that she was.

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Dying, she feared early onset
Alzheimer's was stealing her

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mind.
A quiet grief settled over her

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as she prepared for a future
that was.

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Slipping away.
And then came November of 2020,

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when the police.
Called her to the.

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Station.
There was no gentle transition,

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they told her.
They had been investigating

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Dominique since the market and
on his hard drives they had

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found a folder simply labeled
abuse.

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They laid out a reality that
defied.

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Human comprehension for nearly.
A decade, she.

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Had never been ill.
She had been chemically rendered

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unconscious.
Her home, her sanctuary, had

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been turned into a stage for
dozens of strangers invited in

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by the man she.
Loved her husband.

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And nearly 100 other men had
raped her hundreds of times.

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While she lay oblivious.
The memory gaps weren't a

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diagnosis.
They were the.

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Physical evidence of crimes she
was never meant to remember.

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At first, Giselle's mind did the
only thing it could to survive.

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It rejected the truth.
She insisted these must be.

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Photoshopped She.
Said it was a frame job.

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But as the investigator showed
her, the.

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Still images and the evidence of
the evil things done to her

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body, her brain.
Disassociated she was.

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Looking at a woman who looks
like.

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Her who?
Had been treated.

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Like a rag doll without a soul.
She went home and sat in the

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silence of that shattered.
Life for six.

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Hours, then finally she.
Spoke the word out loud to her.

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Friend rape in that moment 50.
Years of history were.

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Rewritten.
It wasn't just a portrayal.

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It was the total collapse of her
reality.

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Everything she thought she knew
about her marriage, her safety

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and even her own body had been a
lie maintained by the person she

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trusted the most.
The peaceful existence by day

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was gone forever.
Now Giselle.

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Pellicott had to decide who.
She was going to be in the light

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of this terrible new morning.
There is a point in every.

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Case like this where the story.
Could simply go quiet.

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It could have stayed behind
closed doors, protected,

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anonymous and clinical.
It could have been reduced.

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To a pile.
Of legal documents and redacted

233
00:11:44,400 --> 00:11:47,680
reports allowing the public to
understand the crime without

234
00:11:47,680 --> 00:11:49,400
ever having to look the person
in the eye.

235
00:11:50,080 --> 00:11:53,200
That's the path.
Most survivors are offered, and

236
00:11:53,200 --> 00:11:57,120
for many, for very good reason.
It is the path they take.

237
00:11:58,360 --> 00:12:01,680
But Giselle Pellicott is not
most survivors, after learning

238
00:12:01,680 --> 00:12:03,920
the full staggering scale, have
what had been done to.

239
00:12:03,920 --> 00:12:06,680
Her Giselle was given.
The choice to remain a ghost in

240
00:12:06,680 --> 00:12:08,440
her own story.
She could have.

241
00:12:08,440 --> 00:12:10,800
Let her identity be.
Protected by the state, she

242
00:12:10,800 --> 00:12:12,280
could have let the.
Case proceed in a closed

243
00:12:12,280 --> 00:12:14,720
courtroom while she disappeared
into a.

244
00:12:14,760 --> 00:12:18,920
Well deserved private piece, but
she refused.

245
00:12:19,480 --> 00:12:22,080
Instead, Giselle made a decision
that would not only.

246
00:12:22,080 --> 00:12:24,800
Reshape the trial but.
Force a global reckoning.

247
00:12:25,040 --> 00:12:27,720
She choose to waive.
Her rights to anonymity and she

248
00:12:27,720 --> 00:12:29,720
chose a.
Public trial.

249
00:12:30,440 --> 00:12:33,160
She chose to attach her name,
face, and her voice.

250
00:12:33,320 --> 00:12:36,600
To every piece of.
Nauseating evidence in every

251
00:12:36,720 --> 00:12:39,760
hour of testimony.
And she didn't do it because.

252
00:12:39,760 --> 00:12:41,880
It was easy.
She did it because.

253
00:12:41,880 --> 00:12:44,040
She understood a fundamental.
Truth about the dark.

254
00:12:44,600 --> 00:12:48,280
Anonymity doesn't just protect
the victim, it sanitizes the

255
00:12:48,280 --> 00:12:50,920
crime.
And she knew if she stayed in

256
00:12:50,920 --> 00:12:52,880
the shadows.
The world would.

257
00:12:53,480 --> 00:12:56,320
Abstract her experience, they
could make a.

258
00:12:56,320 --> 00:12:58,640
Distance.
It would just be a sad story

259
00:12:58,640 --> 00:13:00,440
that was.
Easy to dismiss and even.

260
00:13:00,440 --> 00:13:03,360
Easier to forget by.
Stepping into the public eye,

261
00:13:03,360 --> 00:13:06,360
she made that impossible.
The crime could no longer be

262
00:13:06,360 --> 00:13:09,280
separated from the human being
it was committed against.

263
00:13:09,520 --> 00:13:12,800
The legal system could no longer
talk around her experience.

264
00:13:13,000 --> 00:13:15,760
They had to look at her.
Her.

265
00:13:15,760 --> 00:13:19,400
Presence in that courtroom in
Avignon became a piece of living

266
00:13:19,400 --> 00:13:23,040
evidence, not in a legal sense,
but in a human one.

267
00:13:23,600 --> 00:13:25,160
She made the.
Scale of the betrayal.

268
00:13:25,160 --> 00:13:29,080
Impossible to sanitize the
horrors, impossible to ignore.

269
00:13:29,840 --> 00:13:32,960
And at the heart of that
decision was a single sentence.

270
00:13:33,160 --> 00:13:35,720
4 words that would travel.
Far beyond the borders of

271
00:13:35,720 --> 00:13:41,840
France, shame must change.
Sides with those words, she.

272
00:13:41,840 --> 00:13:45,400
Reframed the entire universe.
Of sexual violence, she declared

273
00:13:45,400 --> 00:13:47,600
that the.
Burden of silence was no longer.

274
00:13:47,600 --> 00:13:51,520
Hers to carry the weight of the.
Stigma was no longer something

275
00:13:51,720 --> 00:13:54,720
that belonged to her identity.
She was handing that.

276
00:13:54,720 --> 00:13:57,320
Weight back to the.
System that allowed it and the

277
00:13:57,320 --> 00:13:58,800
men who.
Perpetuated it.

278
00:13:59,520 --> 00:14:02,040
It was a.
Declaration that shame belongs

279
00:14:02,080 --> 00:14:05,760
only to the guilty, not the
survivors.

280
00:14:06,520 --> 00:14:09,280
And once that line was.
Spoken the story.

281
00:14:09,280 --> 00:14:12,720
Could no longer be contained.
This wasn't just about what

282
00:14:12,720 --> 00:14:16,200
happened in one house in Mazon.
It was about.

283
00:14:16,200 --> 00:14:17,680
What happens to all?
Of us.

284
00:14:18,080 --> 00:14:20,520
When the truth gets finally
dragged into the light.

285
00:14:22,400 --> 00:14:24,440
When people first.
Heard about this case.

286
00:14:24,440 --> 00:14:28,440
The instinct was to treat it as
an outlier, an extreme story

287
00:14:28,600 --> 00:14:31,560
about.
One horrible man, one home and

288
00:14:31,560 --> 00:14:34,200
an unimaginable breach of trust.
But the more.

289
00:14:34,200 --> 00:14:36,360
Investigators looked outward.
The more that explanation.

290
00:14:36,360 --> 00:14:38,840
Started to fall apart.
What made this possible?

291
00:14:38,840 --> 00:14:40,880
Wasn't just what happened inside
the house in France.

292
00:14:41,240 --> 00:14:43,200
It was what existed outside of
it.

293
00:14:43,840 --> 00:14:47,120
Across encrypted platforms like
Telegram, investigators begin to

294
00:14:47,120 --> 00:14:48,440
trace networks.
Of users.

295
00:14:48,760 --> 00:14:52,320
Exchanging explicit instructions
on how to drug control and

296
00:14:52,320 --> 00:14:55,560
violate unconscious partners.
These weren't vague fantasies.

297
00:14:55,800 --> 00:14:58,000
They were structured, detailed
playbooks.

298
00:14:58,320 --> 00:15:01,080
They described dosages.
Timing methods to avoid

299
00:15:01,080 --> 00:15:03,080
detection.
And they weren't just talking

300
00:15:03,080 --> 00:15:04,120
about abuse.
They were.

301
00:15:04,120 --> 00:15:08,360
Teaching it This was an
ecosystem of reinforcement, a

302
00:15:08,360 --> 00:15:10,520
place where one person's.
Idea could be validated.

303
00:15:10,760 --> 00:15:14,000
By another, refined by a third,
and normalized through

304
00:15:14,000 --> 00:15:15,960
repetition until it stops
sounding like something

305
00:15:15,960 --> 00:15:19,400
unthinkable and just sounded
like something procedural.

306
00:15:20,280 --> 00:15:23,040
Once you understand that Mazon
stops looking like an anomaly

307
00:15:23,640 --> 00:15:27,160
and it's and it starts to look
like a point of contact between

308
00:15:27,160 --> 00:15:34,840
a private crime and a much
larger distributed system, the

309
00:15:34,840 --> 00:15:38,200
ability for Dominique to do as
much.

310
00:15:38,200 --> 00:15:41,880
As he did.
Hinges on where this all was

311
00:15:41,880 --> 00:15:45,840
coordinated.
Coco was one of those spaces.

312
00:15:46,760 --> 00:15:50,240
On the surface, it looks like an
ordinary anonymous chat site.

313
00:15:50,480 --> 00:15:54,240
No special access or encryption.
Needed just an open Door and

314
00:15:54,240 --> 00:15:56,960
Dominique Pellicott use that
platform to connect with men

315
00:15:57,200 --> 00:16:00,160
willing to participate in what
the courts called systemic abuse

316
00:16:00,560 --> 00:16:04,440
in France alone between 2021 and
2020. 4 authorities recorded

317
00:16:04,440 --> 00:16:08,600
over. 23,000 criminal complaints
linked to Coco, including hate

318
00:16:08,600 --> 00:16:13,200
crimes and networks involving at
least 480 identified victims

319
00:16:13,520 --> 00:16:16,000
while the site's founder.
Isaac Steidl was arrested.

320
00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:19,520
In 2025, his arrest didn't
dismantle the behavior, it

321
00:16:19,520 --> 00:16:23,280
simply displaced it.
Cut off 1 head of the hydra and

322
00:16:23,280 --> 00:16:24,520
two more take.
Its place.

323
00:16:25,160 --> 00:16:26,880
Then there's a site called
Motherless.

324
00:16:27,560 --> 00:16:30,240
Researchers have described this.
As an online rape Academy,

325
00:16:30,840 --> 00:16:33,680
reports show the site hosted
more than 20,000 user uploaded

326
00:16:33,680 --> 00:16:37,360
videos of non consensual
content, reaching an estimated

327
00:16:37,360 --> 00:16:39,480
62 million visits in a single
month.

328
00:16:40,520 --> 00:16:43,200
This isn't just passive hosting,
it's a global infrastructure of

329
00:16:43,200 --> 00:16:44,960
demand.
It's a place where the

330
00:16:44,960 --> 00:16:48,080
unthinkable is packaged as
content, where a violent crime

331
00:16:48,080 --> 00:16:51,040
is consumed as if it were just
another category of pornography

332
00:16:51,600 --> 00:16:53,280
on platforms like.
These the reality.

333
00:16:53,280 --> 00:16:56,160
Of the victim is erased and the
assault is rebranded as

334
00:16:56,200 --> 00:17:02,240
entertainment and then in 2026
CNN released an investigation

335
00:17:02,240 --> 00:17:07,000
called as Equals and it reframed
this entire landscape it

336
00:17:07,000 --> 00:17:09,160
connected.
Digital traces across borders

337
00:17:09,440 --> 00:17:11,040
to.
Show that the mechanisms used in

338
00:17:11,040 --> 00:17:15,520
Mazon weren't a French anomaly.
They are part of a wider global.

339
00:17:15,560 --> 00:17:17,880
Ecosystem.
And when you strip away the

340
00:17:17,880 --> 00:17:20,640
platforms, the data points in
the clinical legal language,

341
00:17:20,880 --> 00:17:22,480
you're left with something more
fragile.

342
00:17:23,079 --> 00:17:25,400
You're left with three names
sitting inside the lived

343
00:17:25,400 --> 00:17:26,800
aftermath.
Zoe.

344
00:17:26,800 --> 00:17:29,600
Watts.
Amanda, Stanhope and Valentina.

345
00:17:31,200 --> 00:17:32,760
We'll talk about the
infrastructure.

346
00:17:32,840 --> 00:17:35,960
Or the 20,000 videos but numbers
like those.

347
00:17:35,960 --> 00:17:39,040
Start to feel abstract.
They're too big to wrap your

348
00:17:39,040 --> 00:17:41,520
head around.
But for the women trapped inside

349
00:17:41,520 --> 00:17:44,240
of that nightmare, the horror
isn't a statistic.

350
00:17:44,760 --> 00:17:47,240
It's a cup of tea on a night
stand, a bedroom door.

351
00:17:47,240 --> 00:17:50,080
You thought was locked.
A person you love the most in

352
00:17:50,080 --> 00:17:53,880
the world, standing over you
while you sleep to understand

353
00:17:53,880 --> 00:17:54,680
the bravery.
It took.

354
00:17:54,680 --> 00:17:58,560
For these women to speak out, I
want you to understand the

355
00:17:58,560 --> 00:17:59,840
depth.
Of the betrayal.

356
00:18:01,040 --> 00:18:02,920
They didn't just.
Lose their safety.

357
00:18:03,400 --> 00:18:05,320
They lost their entire sense of
reality.

358
00:18:07,000 --> 00:18:10,320
For Zoe Watts, the.
Weapon wasn't a threat of any

359
00:18:10,320 --> 00:18:13,000
sort of physical violence, it
was a nightly.

360
00:18:13,000 --> 00:18:16,400
Cup of tea prepared.
By the man she had loved since

361
00:18:16,400 --> 00:18:19,400
she was 17 years old.
For years her.

362
00:18:19,400 --> 00:18:22,680
Husband was taking her their
son's sleeping medication and

363
00:18:22,680 --> 00:18:25,720
stirring it into her drink.
He wasn't just drugging her,

364
00:18:25,720 --> 00:18:27,680
though.
He was using her own trust to

365
00:18:27,680 --> 00:18:30,960
steal her consciousness.
Zoe's pain is compounded by a

366
00:18:30,960 --> 00:18:33,000
specific kind of societal gas
lighting.

367
00:18:33,600 --> 00:18:37,360
When Zoe finally spoke out, she
faced the crushing weight of

368
00:18:37,360 --> 00:18:39,280
people telling her.
But he's your.

369
00:18:39,280 --> 00:18:43,440
Husband as if marriage was a
license for ownership.

370
00:18:44,400 --> 00:18:47,280
She speaks up now because she
has to reclaim the instinct.

371
00:18:47,560 --> 00:18:50,160
We are.
All taught to ignore that

372
00:18:50,160 --> 00:18:53,320
sometimes the most dangerous
places in a dark alleyway.

373
00:18:53,920 --> 00:18:58,000
It's your own bedroom for Amanda
Stanhope.

374
00:18:58,080 --> 00:19:00,880
The story is.
Defined by the sheer duration of

375
00:19:00,880 --> 00:19:05,520
the deception, five years.
Imagine living at half a.

376
00:19:05,520 --> 00:19:07,360
Decade where your reality is a
lie.

377
00:19:08,000 --> 00:19:12,320
For five years, Amanda lived in
a fog, experiencing unexplained

378
00:19:12,320 --> 00:19:18,280
gaps in her memory and a fatigue
that was so intense she couldn't

379
00:19:18,280 --> 00:19:21,120
explain it.
She wasn't just losing a night.

380
00:19:21,440 --> 00:19:23,320
She lost years of her.
Life.

381
00:19:24,240 --> 00:19:27,120
When Amanda came forward, she
wasn't just discussing the

382
00:19:27,120 --> 00:19:30,560
crime, she was trying to
reconstruct her own history.

383
00:19:31,120 --> 00:19:34,360
By choosing to be a voice in the
CNN investigation, she was

384
00:19:34,360 --> 00:19:36,360
refusing to let those five years
belong.

385
00:19:36,600 --> 00:19:40,200
To the predators who?
Watched her online, she is

386
00:19:40,200 --> 00:19:42,400
pulling her life.
Out of the digital.

387
00:19:42,400 --> 00:19:44,960
Archive and back into the
daylight.

388
00:19:46,560 --> 00:19:50,560
And then there was Valentina.
We don't know her real name.

389
00:19:50,640 --> 00:19:54,840
She wished to remain anonymous
in the CNN article, but she

390
00:19:54,840 --> 00:19:58,160
experienced the most modern,
unsettling layer of this crime.

391
00:19:58,760 --> 00:20:02,280
The digital afterlife.
Unlike the survivors, who only

392
00:20:02,280 --> 00:20:05,880
have memory gaps, Valentina was
forced to confront the external

393
00:20:05,880 --> 00:20:08,600
evidence.
She saw the videos.

394
00:20:09,320 --> 00:20:12,800
She saw her own body treated as
content on screen being

395
00:20:12,800 --> 00:20:14,600
consumed.
By this global.

396
00:20:14,600 --> 00:20:16,920
Audience of everyday men.
Who viewed her?

397
00:20:16,920 --> 00:20:20,240
Violation as nothing more.
Than a category of.

398
00:20:20,240 --> 00:20:23,640
Porn.
For Valentina, speaking out was

399
00:20:23,640 --> 00:20:28,800
an act of narrative war.
She knows her image is out there

400
00:20:28,800 --> 00:20:30,280
in the dark corners of the
Internet.

401
00:20:30,800 --> 00:20:32,280
And it will.
Always be out there.

402
00:20:33,240 --> 00:20:37,200
But by speaking, she's saying
that woman on the screen is me,

403
00:20:37,720 --> 00:20:41,120
but she is a human being and she
is not your entertainment.

404
00:20:42,440 --> 00:20:45,440
What connects Zoe, Amanda and
Valentina to?

405
00:20:45,440 --> 00:20:49,320
Giselle Pellicott is a shared,
terrified bravery.

406
00:20:50,000 --> 00:20:51,320
They all could have stayed
quiet.

407
00:20:51,720 --> 00:20:54,400
They all could have.
Just lived in the protection of

408
00:20:54,400 --> 00:20:57,400
anonymity.
But they understood that silence

409
00:20:57,400 --> 00:20:59,480
is what allows the Rape Academy
to stay open.

410
00:21:00,040 --> 00:21:02,680
And they chose to be seen and
heard because they knew that

411
00:21:02,680 --> 00:21:05,520
shame only thrives in the dark.
They didn't just survive.

412
00:21:05,840 --> 00:21:08,360
They stood up.
And made sure that from now on.

413
00:21:08,600 --> 00:21:12,080
The world has to look at the.
Faces of the women the system

414
00:21:12,080 --> 00:21:16,400
tried to erase.
If you think about this, none of

415
00:21:16,400 --> 00:21:18,280
these stories are about
resolution.

416
00:21:19,200 --> 00:21:21,200
It's about the continuity.
After.

417
00:21:21,200 --> 00:21:24,920
Your life has been disrupted.
Zoe, Amanda and Valentino all

418
00:21:24,920 --> 00:21:27,240
chose his ability not because.
It was easy.

419
00:21:27,680 --> 00:21:29,240
But because the alternative is
worse.

420
00:21:30,080 --> 00:21:31,720
Their.
Stories interrupt the system by

421
00:21:31,720 --> 00:21:35,000
making it impossible to ignore,
because the evidence shows that

422
00:21:35,000 --> 00:21:38,440
this is not one site, not one
country, and not one type of

423
00:21:38,440 --> 00:21:42,600
man.
By the time the Pellicott case

424
00:21:42,600 --> 00:21:44,920
reached the court in. 2024.
The scale of what?

425
00:21:44,920 --> 00:21:47,760
Happened in Mazan can no longer
be contained by language like

426
00:21:48,040 --> 00:21:53,040
incident or scandal.
It was a national reckoning.

427
00:21:53,440 --> 00:21:56,360
The trial in Avignon was unlike
anything the French legal system

428
00:21:56,360 --> 00:21:58,440
had ever.
Processed over 4.

429
00:21:58,440 --> 00:22:01,480
Grueling months, the courtroom
became a space where repetition

430
00:22:01,480 --> 00:22:05,200
was the most damning evidence.
50 men stood trial alongside

431
00:22:05,200 --> 00:22:08,160
Dominique Pellicott and one
unsettled the public.

432
00:22:08,480 --> 00:22:11,440
Wasn't just the number of men,
but the normalcy.

433
00:22:11,440 --> 00:22:15,120
Of their faces.
These were the am ordinaire, the

434
00:22:15,120 --> 00:22:19,480
ordinary men, journalists, IT
workers, tradesmen you'd pass in

435
00:22:19,480 --> 00:22:21,640
the supermarket, college
students.

436
00:22:22,280 --> 00:22:24,200
They didn't fit the visual
markers of danger.

437
00:22:24,200 --> 00:22:25,440
We're all.
Told to expect.

438
00:22:26,080 --> 00:22:28,920
They were men hiding their
normalcy, forcing a terrifying

439
00:22:28,920 --> 00:22:32,080
question How many systems of
harm depend on not being

440
00:22:32,080 --> 00:22:35,120
separate from society, but on
being invisible within it?

441
00:22:36,400 --> 00:22:38,720
But the rupture didn't just.
Stop at the courtroom doors,

442
00:22:39,000 --> 00:22:41,040
investigators.
Uncovered that the violation

443
00:22:41,040 --> 00:22:43,920
reached even deeper into the
Pellicott family than anyone

444
00:22:43,920 --> 00:22:46,480
was.
Prepared for those seized.

445
00:22:46,480 --> 00:22:49,240
Devices revealed images and
recordings of Dominique's own

446
00:22:49,240 --> 00:22:53,200
daughters in laws and other
women in his family circle for

447
00:22:53,200 --> 00:22:55,280
his children.
The portrayal was total.

448
00:22:55,560 --> 00:22:57,800
Trust in memory had to be
reinterpreted under the weight

449
00:22:57,800 --> 00:23:00,680
of a private life that had been
quietly contaminated for.

450
00:23:00,680 --> 00:23:03,520
Years yet through that collapse,
Giselle's.

451
00:23:03,520 --> 00:23:06,200
Sons David and Florian.
They stood by her side.

452
00:23:06,560 --> 00:23:09,120
Not because they understood what
she was going through, but

453
00:23:09,120 --> 00:23:13,360
because she was their mother.
And on December 19th, 2020. 4

454
00:23:13,680 --> 00:23:16,640
The verdicts arrived.
Monique Pellicott received the

455
00:23:16,640 --> 00:23:22,080
maximum sentence for aggravated
rape 20 years at 71 years.

456
00:23:22,080 --> 00:23:23,440
Old.
It is effectively a life

457
00:23:23,440 --> 00:23:25,960
sentence.
The other fifty men received

458
00:23:25,960 --> 00:23:29,080
varying punishments, some
stretching into the mid teens,

459
00:23:29,080 --> 00:23:33,000
some as low as just three years.
But for the public?

460
00:23:33,320 --> 00:23:36,600
The numbers did not.
Add up to justice outside of

461
00:23:36,600 --> 00:23:38,760
that.
Courthouse The atmosphere was

462
00:23:38,760 --> 00:23:41,320
not one of relief.
It was anger.

463
00:23:41,640 --> 00:23:44,640
Protesters.
Held up signs and screamed shame

464
00:23:44,640 --> 00:23:47,080
on justice.
The feeling across France was

465
00:23:47,080 --> 00:23:47,880
that while.
The law had.

466
00:23:47,880 --> 00:23:51,400
Spoken these sentences were
shamefully insufficient for a

467
00:23:51,400 --> 00:23:55,520
decade of coordinated depravity.
Some of these men received

468
00:23:55,520 --> 00:23:59,320
suspended sentences or terms way
shorter than prosecutors

469
00:23:59,320 --> 00:24:02,160
requested.
Leading activists to argue that

470
00:24:02,160 --> 00:24:03,720
the system still lacks the
proper.

471
00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:07,240
Tools to handle the true.
Gravity of sexual violence.

472
00:24:07,720 --> 00:24:11,160
The trial proved that harm like
this exists inside recognizable

473
00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:15,200
society, but the sentences left
many feeling that the punishment

474
00:24:15,480 --> 00:24:17,680
had not caught up to.
The severity of the crime.

475
00:24:19,240 --> 00:24:23,240
And in the long shadow of the
Avignon trial, something unusual

476
00:24:23,240 --> 00:24:27,680
began to happen.
It wasn't loud and it wasn't

477
00:24:27,680 --> 00:24:29,880
immediate.
But steadily across legal

478
00:24:29,880 --> 00:24:31,520
circles.
Parliamentary committees and.

479
00:24:31,520 --> 00:24:33,160
Policy discussions throughout
Europe.

480
00:24:33,520 --> 00:24:35,120
The case started shifting
something.

481
00:24:35,720 --> 00:24:38,560
This stopped being about the
prosecution of 51 individuals

482
00:24:38,560 --> 00:24:40,680
and started being studied as a
historic turning point.

483
00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:43,960
What emerged is what they now.
Call the Pellicott effect.

484
00:24:44,560 --> 00:24:48,040
It is shorthand for the way one
woman's refusal to hide began to

485
00:24:48,040 --> 00:24:50,680
dismantle the gap that has
existed in the legal system for

486
00:24:50,680 --> 00:24:54,640
centuries, the chasm between the
absence of resistance and the

487
00:24:54,640 --> 00:24:58,560
presence of consent.
For far too long, the law looked

488
00:24:58,560 --> 00:25:00,800
for a no.
It looked for a struggle.

489
00:25:01,040 --> 00:25:03,560
It looked for.
Physical evidence of refusal.

490
00:25:03,920 --> 00:25:06,080
But the Pelletcott case?
Forced lawmakers to look at the

491
00:25:06,080 --> 00:25:10,280
terrifying reality of silence.
Force them to admit that when

492
00:25:10,280 --> 00:25:14,120
silence is manufactured, induced
by drugs, or exploited by

493
00:25:14,120 --> 00:25:17,560
betrayal, it cannot be treated
as neutral.

494
00:25:18,320 --> 00:25:20,440
And across Europe, this.
Conversation has moved from the

495
00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:22,720
streets into the halls of.
Power we're.

496
00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:25,560
Seeing an acceleration towards
consent based frameworks.

497
00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:28,720
The phrase you'll hear.
Again and again, the one being

498
00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:30,480
shouted in protests and written
into new.

499
00:25:30,480 --> 00:25:35,080
State statutes is.
Blunt in its clarity, only yes

500
00:25:35,480 --> 00:25:37,920
means yes.
It's more than a slogan.

501
00:25:38,440 --> 00:25:41,120
It's becoming a legal
requirement, the demand that

502
00:25:41,120 --> 00:25:44,440
sexual violence be defined by
the absence of clear affirmative

503
00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:47,040
agreement, while laws don't
change overnight.

504
00:25:47,360 --> 00:25:49,960
The Pellicott effect.
Has made the direction of travel

505
00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:52,200
irreversible.
Governments are now being

506
00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:53,280
forced.
To review their old.

507
00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:56,160
Statutes and ask.
Does this law actually protect

508
00:25:56,160 --> 00:25:58,400
people, or does it protect the
predators?

509
00:25:58,400 --> 00:26:01,520
Who hide in the silence.
And beneath the complicated

510
00:26:01,520 --> 00:26:04,960
legal language, something more
fundamental is happening.

511
00:26:05,600 --> 00:26:09,000
We are witnessing a shift in
what society considers legible

512
00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:11,440
harm.
We are finally learning that

513
00:26:11,440 --> 00:26:14,960
consent is not the absence of
no, but the presence of a yes.

514
00:26:15,760 --> 00:26:18,080
And it's important to remember.
Where this shift started?

515
00:26:18,760 --> 00:26:21,040
Not with a politician or a
lobbyist.

516
00:26:21,640 --> 00:26:26,080
It was a courtroom in Avignon
with one woman choosing to be

517
00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:28,320
seen.
And from that decision?

518
00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:30,720
The pressure spread outward.
Into.

519
00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:33,800
Our laws, our policies.
And our very language.

520
00:26:34,560 --> 00:26:37,280
Sometimes institutional change
doesn't begin with a memo or

521
00:26:37,280 --> 00:26:42,120
reform.
It begins with exposure and the

522
00:26:42,120 --> 00:26:45,400
simple revolutionary refusal to
look away.

523
00:26:48,080 --> 00:26:50,760
After everything we've
discussed, the investigation,

524
00:26:50,960 --> 00:26:53,760
the sentencing, the trial,
there's still a question that

525
00:26:53,760 --> 00:26:55,320
lingers.
Outside of reach for the court,

526
00:26:56,160 --> 00:27:00,120
what does justice actually do
for the people who have lived?

527
00:27:00,120 --> 00:27:04,120
Through something like this,
there's a common misconception

528
00:27:04,120 --> 00:27:06,120
that truth, once revealed,
brings closure.

529
00:27:06,760 --> 00:27:09,040
We like to think that once the.
Facts are established the.

530
00:27:09,040 --> 00:27:12,480
System has done its job, and the
story can finally be tucked

531
00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:15,400
away.
But that's not how lived

532
00:27:15,400 --> 00:27:19,040
experience works.
Justice can acknowledge harm, it

533
00:27:19,040 --> 00:27:22,280
can assign responsibility, it
can create consequences that

534
00:27:22,280 --> 00:27:24,440
matter.
But it cannot erase what

535
00:27:24,440 --> 00:27:27,920
happened, it cannot rewind time,
and it cannot restore the

536
00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:31,200
version of life that.
Existed before the world broke.

537
00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:35,800
What it can do is return
something that was stolen long

538
00:27:35,800 --> 00:27:41,440
before the courtroom doors.
Ever opened voice for survivors

539
00:27:41,440 --> 00:27:43,880
like Giselle?
Speaking out isn't about telling

540
00:27:43,880 --> 00:27:46,960
a story that has ended.
It's about reclaiming authorship

541
00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:50,880
over a narrative taken from her,
one of the quietest consequences

542
00:27:50,880 --> 00:27:52,960
of this kind of violence.
Is that it steals your.

543
00:27:52,960 --> 00:27:56,000
Ability to describe your own
life, you become a person who is

544
00:27:56,000 --> 00:28:00,680
now spoken about.
But by testifying, by refusing

545
00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:03,760
to be silent, Giselle and the
woman of the as equals

546
00:28:03,760 --> 00:28:08,880
investigation turned memory from
something imposed into something

547
00:28:09,240 --> 00:28:12,240
reclaimed.
Justice, in the sense, is not a

548
00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:16,200
clean ending.
It's a rebalancing, quiet,

549
00:28:16,400 --> 00:28:20,480
imperfect and hard one.
The moment the story stops

550
00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:24,520
belonging to the perpetrator and
starts belonging once again to

551
00:28:24,520 --> 00:28:29,680
the person it was done to.
And stories like this don't end

552
00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:31,960
when the episode does.
They don't end when the

553
00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:34,960
headlines move on to something
easier to compartmentalize.

554
00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:40,120
For survivors.
The impact continues long.

555
00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:42,200
After the world stops.
Paying attention.

556
00:28:43,240 --> 00:28:44,720
And that is?
Where responsibility?

557
00:28:44,720 --> 00:28:48,080
Shifts away from the.
Courtroom and toward the rest.

558
00:28:48,080 --> 00:28:50,720
Of us, if you.
Feel as passionately about.

559
00:28:50,720 --> 00:28:52,720
This as I do, there are
practical ways.

560
00:28:52,720 --> 00:28:55,520
To move that energy into the
world, organizations like

561
00:28:55,520 --> 00:28:58,280
Amnesty and Irrational, along
with your local Rape Crisis

562
00:28:58,280 --> 00:29:01,400
centers and survivor support
networks, are often the only

563
00:29:01,400 --> 00:29:04,240
thing standing between a
survivor and total isolation.

564
00:29:04,640 --> 00:29:06,440
They rely on our.
Visibility.

565
00:29:06,440 --> 00:29:09,040
Our funding and our refusal to
treat these crimes as historical

566
00:29:09,040 --> 00:29:11,760
events.
The support isn't just

567
00:29:11,760 --> 00:29:13,800
financial, though, it's also
linguistic.

568
00:29:14,320 --> 00:29:16,200
One of the most powerful things
you can do.

569
00:29:16,480 --> 00:29:20,880
Is help the break the.
Cycle of self blame for so many

570
00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:23,560
survivors.
The final reflex is to turn

571
00:29:23,560 --> 00:29:26,600
inward and say I should have
known.

572
00:29:27,400 --> 00:29:29,160
I should have.
Seen this coming?

573
00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:32,120
We need to help change those
sentences.

574
00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:34,880
The shift is simple, but it
changes everything.

575
00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:36,840
He shouldn't have done that to
you.

576
00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:40,520
And that one sentence restores
accountability to the rightful

577
00:29:40,520 --> 00:29:44,080
owner, removing the burden of
predicting a predator's behavior

578
00:29:44,280 --> 00:29:46,720
from the shoulders of the person
who survived it.

579
00:29:48,840 --> 00:29:50,920
Finally, we have to remember
that belief is not.

580
00:29:50,920 --> 00:29:53,720
Passive, it's the first.
Form of intervention.

581
00:29:54,280 --> 00:29:57,160
Before the law.
Before the sentencing, before

582
00:29:57,160 --> 00:30:01,680
the systems respond, there's a
moment where someone hints at

583
00:30:01,680 --> 00:30:04,480
what they've experienced.
What happens next depends

584
00:30:04,480 --> 00:30:09,720
entirely on whether they.
Are believed belief is what?

585
00:30:09,720 --> 00:30:12,400
Determines whether a pattern
gets recognized or simply

586
00:30:12,400 --> 00:30:14,480
ignored.
It's what determines.

587
00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:21,760
Whether a survivor steps.
Forward or never tries in cases

588
00:30:21,760 --> 00:30:23,360
like this where silence allows
harm to.

589
00:30:23,360 --> 00:30:26,880
Persist for a decade.
Belief is more than support, its

590
00:30:26,880 --> 00:30:28,800
prevention.
So my call.

591
00:30:28,800 --> 00:30:31,600
To you today is this.
Respond differently when someone

592
00:30:31,600 --> 00:30:32,720
tries to tell you the.
Truth.

593
00:30:33,160 --> 00:30:35,280
Listen without requiring perfect
language.

594
00:30:35,680 --> 00:30:37,480
Resist the urge to.
Minimize what doesn't

595
00:30:37,480 --> 00:30:40,320
immediately make sense.
Justice doesn't begin in a

596
00:30:40,320 --> 00:30:43,640
courtroom and having none.
It begins in our living rooms,

597
00:30:43,880 --> 00:30:46,240
in our workplaces, and in our
friendships.

598
00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:49,960
It begins in the moments.
Where we choose to believe each

599
00:30:49,960 --> 00:30:54,440
other, we started this.
Episode in the supermarket in

600
00:30:54,440 --> 00:30:58,160
Mazon, France.
Small moment, an older man

601
00:30:58,160 --> 00:31:01,320
getting caught doing something
that on surface looks contained.

602
00:31:01,320 --> 00:31:04,320
Almost forgettable kind of
incident where if you only saw

603
00:31:04,320 --> 00:31:05,840
the surface you would assume the
story.

604
00:31:05,840 --> 00:31:08,200
Just send it there.
But nothing.

605
00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:11,800
About this case stay contained
or began as a single act did not

606
00:31:11,800 --> 00:31:15,480
remain one.
It unspooled into a pattern that

607
00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:18,880
a system then something far
greater than the quiet town

608
00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:21,800
where it appeared.
And now, at the end of this

609
00:31:21,800 --> 00:31:26,640
journey, we can say clearly it
was not just one man, it was not

610
00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:29,720
just one website, it was not
just one country.

611
00:31:30,720 --> 00:31:33,080
What happened here was never
isolated in the way.

612
00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:35,640
We like to believe.
Harm can be isolated.

613
00:31:36,240 --> 00:31:39,000
It was connected and replicated
and it's.

614
00:31:39,000 --> 00:31:41,680
Sustained.
It thrived.

615
00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:45,600
Inside structures that allowed
it to continue long after it

616
00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:49,920
should have been stopped.
And that is the uncomfortable

617
00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:52,800
truth at the center of
everything we've spored through

618
00:31:52,800 --> 00:31:55,000
the trial, through the As equals
investigation.

619
00:31:55,280 --> 00:31:57,880
Through every layer we've.
Pulled into the light, this is a

620
00:31:57,880 --> 00:32:02,120
system that was built on silence
and silence in the home, silence

621
00:32:02,120 --> 00:32:05,200
in the spaces where it was
coordinated, silence in the gaps

622
00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:09,480
where it went unrecognized.
And what we are seeing now

623
00:32:09,480 --> 00:32:10,600
through the courts and the
voices of.

624
00:32:10,600 --> 00:32:13,040
Survivors, it's what happens.
When that silence.

625
00:32:13,040 --> 00:32:15,360
Breaks doesn't disappear
quietly.

626
00:32:18,240 --> 00:32:20,520
But there is something else that
comes with that breaking point.

627
00:32:21,680 --> 00:32:24,400
The truth, always.
Leaves a trail, even when it's

628
00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:27,040
buried, even when it's
fragmented, even when it takes.

629
00:32:27,040 --> 00:32:31,600
Decades to surface.
It does not vanish and

630
00:32:31,600 --> 00:32:34,800
accumulates and eventually it
will find its way out.

631
00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:37,000
That's what this story has been
in its.

632
00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:38,240
Core.
A trail of.

633
00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:40,880
Truth being followed backward
through time, through systems,

634
00:32:41,160 --> 00:32:44,200
and silence itself.
As we close out.

635
00:32:44,200 --> 00:32:47,360
This hundredth episode, I want
to say thank you everyone who

636
00:32:47,360 --> 00:32:49,760
has been listening from the
beginning, and to those of you

637
00:32:49,760 --> 00:32:51,160
who joined somewhere along the
way.

638
00:32:51,760 --> 00:32:53,880
This journey has always been
about following the evidence

639
00:32:53,880 --> 00:32:56,120
wherever it leads, even when it
leads into.

640
00:32:56,120 --> 00:32:57,680
Places that are difficult to sit
with.

641
00:32:58,840 --> 00:32:59,960
For 100.
Episodes.

642
00:32:59,960 --> 00:33:02,280
We've asked.
The same question what happens

643
00:33:02,280 --> 00:33:05,240
when the unthinkable occurs?
And how does justice?

644
00:33:05,240 --> 00:33:10,000
Respond I'm not done asking
because the truth doesn't stop

645
00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:10,880
revealing itself.
Just.

646
00:33:10,880 --> 00:33:14,720
Because a case is closed, or a
verdict was delivered or story

647
00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:16,000
reached.
Its final chapter.

648
00:33:16,600 --> 00:33:19,360
The truth.
Keeps moving and I intend to

649
00:33:19,360 --> 00:33:21,040
keep following it.
With you.

650
00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:24,480
When cures get caught will
probably change over time, as

651
00:33:24,480 --> 00:33:27,280
all things do, but my commitment
to this work and to these

652
00:33:27,280 --> 00:33:29,240
stories into the.
Pursuit of reality.

653
00:33:29,480 --> 00:33:33,480
Beneath them will never stop.
Because the truth always leaves

654
00:33:33,480 --> 00:33:35,640
a trail.
And I will keep searching for

655
00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:38,920
it.
Thank you for 100 episodes and

656
00:33:38,920 --> 00:33:40,720
thank you for always listening.