Episode 35: Katherine Knight: Cannibal? Murderer? Really Bad Girlfriend? YES.

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Hey everybody in Hero Killer
country.

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My name is Brittany Ransom and.
My name is Brian Joyner and this

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is When Killers Get Caught, a
podcast of odes, deep dives into

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the lives and psyches so the
killers we love to learn about.

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Each week Brian and I find a
true Crime Story that resonated

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with us.
Then I discuss one well known or

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lesser known killer and go deep
into their childhood lives,

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methodology, and most
importantly how they got caught.

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And then we get a little spooky
and we'll learn something about

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cryptids or the supernatural.
And just before we get in, just

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to let you know, our Patreon is
live.

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There are 4 tiers from 5 to
$50.00 that offer lots of things

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like being able to listen to us
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getting a free 30 minute podcast

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about conspiracies.
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on Patreon.
It is fun and games on Patreon.

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You can support us by going to
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caught and you are always open
to check out our merch at

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www.whenkillersgetcaught.com and
I am slowly merging it over to

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the Facebook page which is also
searching when killers get

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caught and the podcast is now
available to listen to on

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Facebook.
Look, you getting us everywhere.

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Yeah.
So listen, if you prefer to

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listen to on Facebook or look at
things on Facebook, absolutely

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they will all be there.
That happened this week that I

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was able to guess Facebook's
doing some new changes.

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Yeah, that's really awesome.
Though next it would be freaking

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Twitter.
That'd be great.

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That would be awesome if
everything was all integrated.

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But so before I start into this
week in true crime about what I

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want to talk about, I want
everyone listening to just hear

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me out.
Don't get mad when I say the

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name of this because I want to
talk about missing White Women's

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Syndrome.
That's the specifically in the

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news right now because of the
Gabby Petitto case.

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And what missing white women's
syndrome is, is the American

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media's propensity to
specifically cover with just

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like a ferocious ferocity.
Like the mainstream media in

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this country absolutely loves to
talk about missing white women,

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and it's to the detriment of
missing women of color.

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There are a disproportionate
number of teenage black girls

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who are being kidnapped across
this country, and they are

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virtually never reported.
There are a disproportionate

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number of indigenous women
across North America that have

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not been reported and it's been
such a big deal in Canada that

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they are now launching like
investigations into the coverage

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and the police, whether they
have been doing the right thing.

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There is an entire highway in
Canada that they refer to as the

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Highway of Tears because there
have been so many indigenous

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women who have gone missing in
that in this area and it crosses

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roughly 75% of the the continent
or sorry, that country on our

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continent.
And this is really important

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because, like I said, so many of
the people.

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Who need to be reported are not
being reported just this week

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alone.
It wasn't until Jelani day at

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his mom spoke on TV about the
fact that she had been trying to

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get coverage of him missing put
on mainstream news since he went

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missing on August 24th.
This week he was he was found

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technically September 4th or
September 9th.

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Yes, and a river in Illinois.
But they didn't like.

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I guess there was no fire behind
the Emmy until everyone publicly

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was like where is he?
You found a body?

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Do the freaking cord or.
Like Oh yeah, we found a body,

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blah blah blah.
That's right.

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And so of course once they do
it, like days after this is

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everywhere on Facebook, TikTok,
Twitter, all of a sudden we have

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a positive ID and it's been 3
almost three weeks since they

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found the body.
I mean their situations.

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Like Lakia Edelston, Eggleston.
She was 8 months pregnant when

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she disappeared four years ago
in Baltimore.

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There's a young girl named
Keisha Unique Jacobs.

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She's been missing since 2016.
She'd be 26 years old.

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Now.
There are a host of families who

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are asking just for similar
coverage of the people who they

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love.
And I have been getting messages

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in my inbox on TikTok for an A
very long time with people

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asking me to cover missing
cases.

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And so I asked on Facebook, I
asked on YouTube, and I asked on

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TikTok do you want me to cover
these cases?

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And I got to be really honest
with you.

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I don't know if people are
prepared for this, but I have

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absolutely no intention right
now of covering whatever the new

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hot story about the missing
white women is, because I feel

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like there's already enough
attention.

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You got your CNN and every other
major news source doing this, so

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I am going to start covering
missing people every Monday.

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I'm going to try and do more
than my normal videos so that I

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can get a bunch of them up
because literally there are at

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least 50 different people in my
inbox at any given time

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requesting can you talk about my
friend, Can you talk about my

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cousin?
Can you talk about my sister

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like there's so many?
And I I got to tell you, I'm

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going to say that I'm going to
start specifically discussing

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women of color and indigenous
women first, because I feel like

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there is a gap in the reporting.
Absolutely.

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And this is not to say that
anybody's missing relative is

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less important.
But until there is fair

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coverage, those of us who are
are talking about things in the

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media on alternate forms of
media have to cover that gap.

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So I hope I didn't make anybody
too mad.

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People get real angry when you
start saying the words white.

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And women on the Internet.
But you know, that's.

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What we're here for anyway, like
you, you and me, that's what we

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do this podcast for.
We we cover that gap of people.

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It really is true.
I have been doing a seminar this

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past week on marketing and one
of the people in my seminar hit

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me up.
He's from the 30 Minute podcast.

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He actually wanted to know if we
wanted to be on his podcast and

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talk to him.
So maybe we might be on another

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person's podcast.
But he specifically said that he

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was watching a master class and
they were discussing the lack of

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people of color who specifically
discussed true crime.

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And I wasn't aware when we made
this podcast that there was a

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deficit in this.
We've gotten a couple emails

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that were like, yay, you guys
are woke.

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We really appreciate it.
But like I said to you the other

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night when we I called you to
tell you about that, I was like,

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I don't know how to be any other
way like.

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We're black people.
We're going to talk about black

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people stuff.
That's what happens.

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Get 2 black people in the room
over the microphones.

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Come on now, is what?
Happens is what we're going to

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do.
So I just, I feel like it's some

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of that people need to be aware
of and think about that the

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media that we are consuming is
being curated by certain people

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and those certain people care
the most apparently about young

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white women between like the age
of like 16 and like 25.

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They seem to be the ones that
get the most attention.

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And that's unfortunate because
I'm sure there's an elderly

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white woman who's gone missing
who could probably use the the

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media attention, you know, but
we don't, we don't care about

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elderly people in this country.
But that's a whole nother

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conversation.
Not going there today, but I'm

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going to turn it over to you,
Brian.

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What is your story this week?
My God, well, thank you for all

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the information.
So Speaking of white people, is

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this another white?
Is this a missing white person?

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No, no, no, no, no Okay.
So this is headlined as

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teenagers are charged with
planning to attack a PA school.

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Was this the two boys who look
like they're about 10 years old?

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No, no, OK cuz they were that
was were mess.

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So this is a four teenagers.
They're trying, they they want

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to, I guess attack a school,
their high school.

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OK And remembrance of the
Columbine, oh Jesus.

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Which will be turning 25 years
old when they were playing the

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attack.
That's ridiculous.

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Oh my God.
So they planned this attack for

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2024.
Was this happening in

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Pennsylvania?
Scranton, PA Oh Gee, why is it

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always Scran?
What is going on in?

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No fucking idea.
Scraton's boring sometimes.

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Maybe that's it.
The only thing they got there is

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the office.
And you know, it's just.

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And it wasn't even filmed there,
though I know they literally

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filmed one like.
We have the Electric City, OK?

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They have the Electric City sign
and everything, cuz when I did a

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story, I did a story about this
woman who was taking pictures

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with dead bodies.
She was like a mortician and it

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was from that region and people
were upset.

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She just thought it was cool.
So she was taking pictures of

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families without their
permission.

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But so these kids.
So it was it's four kids.

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Two of them were 15 year old.
They're being charged as adults.

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The other two were being charged
with just juvenile charges.

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But yeah, it's they were trying
to attack Dunmar, Dunmore High

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School and Scran.
I'm guessing that must be their

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school.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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This is.
And it says that one of the

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girl's mothers said that the
total police that her daughter

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was obsessed with Columbine and
like as a parent, see, I can't

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say anything about that because
I was like 12 years old reading

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about serial killers.
Okay.

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Yeah, but what kind of obsession
are we talking about?

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Like are you, are you trying to
like, I just want to know

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everything about them.
Yeah, that's the that's when

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this started this that is now
what we have started when I was

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like 1213 years.
Yeah, no, I mean same thing with

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me and paranormal.
But like I also was into the

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paranormal too.
I started reading ghost stuff.

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But like, come on, like if
that's the only thing you're

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obsessed with Columbine and or
shooting and stuff like that.

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I guess the question is like how
do you know that your kid is

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just like casually interested in
something cuz you know, like

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little kids get into like
dinosaurs, they know everything

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about every dinosaur, right?
How do you know that your kids

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like into murder like that?
Or your kid is thinking about

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doing a murder like I don't know
what the.

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They start mentioning, they
start mentioning it a lot.

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I mean like, OK, for example,
how did they know that this was

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happening?
What did they find?

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So what they found was, hold on,
I don't know how they found.

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I think they found things they
were making so they could do

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this.
Oh no.

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So I I read they found a Molotov
cocktail.

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They they found a bonus for a
bomb.

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Oh, they were trying to do it
bigger than Columbine because

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Columbine did not have
explosives.

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Yeah, they they had plans
written down for making bombs

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and stuff like that.
See.

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And then I'm gonna also tell you
that when I was 14, I read the

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Anarchist Cookbook.
Yeah, because I was like, why

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not?
And it was in my high school, my

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my librarian didn't believe in
banning books.

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She didn't believe that anything
was bad to know.

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But, like, now I feel like I
don't know how I feel about

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that.
Yes, I'm.

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Guessing they they found this
stuff in this one in one of the

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girls rooms, or in in our home
or whatever.

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Thank goodness for a snooping
Mama.

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I know, right?
Hey.

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But goodness gracious, they
said.

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They didn't believe there's like
an immediate threat right now.

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Since when's the anniversary
this?

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Is in 2024, but Jesus, they were
planning.

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Yeah, 2024, That's when they
planned the attack.

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So Lord, yeah, okay, I can
understand why the cops were

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like, well, they're just really
stockpiling stuff for three

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years from now.
Wait a second.

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Two of them wouldn't have even
been in high school anymore.

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They still don't.
They still teach this kind of

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stuff in school, or they learn
about this kind of stuff in?

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No, I just mean that if two of
them were sophomores 3 years

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from now, they would be out of
high school, still about to do

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this attack, and the other two
would have been seniors.

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Or maybe they had planned to.
Get held back a year seems like

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a weird plan.
I know, I know.

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00:13:22,510 --> 00:13:24,270
Because everybody.
I don't know why.

228
00:13:24,270 --> 00:13:26,030
Why would you?
This is weird.

229
00:13:29,790 --> 00:13:32,830
This is weird and stupid.
I guess they had kind of mad

230
00:13:32,830 --> 00:13:34,390
about.
It Yeah, I guess they had a list

231
00:13:34,390 --> 00:13:37,350
of targets that they they wanted
people that they wanted to

232
00:13:37,350 --> 00:13:38,350
target.
People aren't even there

233
00:13:38,350 --> 00:13:39,870
anymore.
What if the teacher you hate

234
00:13:39,870 --> 00:13:41,950
gets transferred?
One of them was the principal.

235
00:13:42,430 --> 00:13:47,060
Yeah, what if the principal
decides to move to Wisconsin Now

236
00:13:47,060 --> 00:13:49,340
you can't kill him, your revenge
plot foiled.

237
00:13:49,460 --> 00:13:50,420
I just.
Like.

238
00:13:52,100 --> 00:13:54,300
Like, I read it in a like I read
the headline.

239
00:13:54,300 --> 00:13:57,060
I was like, oh, no, it's really
impulsive.

240
00:13:57,100 --> 00:14:01,020
So this is very intriguing.
Yeah, Because I would understand

241
00:14:01,020 --> 00:14:03,900
if they were like, we're going
to kill Principal Skinner next

242
00:14:03,900 --> 00:14:06,300
week.
It's the only one I can think of

243
00:14:06,300 --> 00:14:08,460
off the top of my head.
Building.

244
00:14:08,700 --> 00:14:13,970
But to say we're going to kill
Principal Skinner 4 years from

245
00:14:13,970 --> 00:14:15,930
now.
All right, get ready.

246
00:14:15,930 --> 00:14:17,770
Yeah, get ready.
You don't even to go see him in

247
00:14:17,770 --> 00:14:19,370
the hall.
You don't even know, son.

248
00:14:19,890 --> 00:14:22,290
My God, you don't know.
We got prepared for you.

249
00:14:22,290 --> 00:14:25,010
Just wait.
Jesus, you better hope it's not

250
00:14:25,010 --> 00:14:29,970
a leap year.
I'm done, Okay.

251
00:14:31,410 --> 00:14:34,490
That's what I got.
Kids being kids.

252
00:14:34,650 --> 00:14:38,450
And sometimes kids are scary and
think of scary things.

253
00:14:38,490 --> 00:14:39,810
Kids are absolutely scary.
But.

254
00:14:54,280 --> 00:14:56,160
Goodness gracious.
This week I'm bringing it back

255
00:14:56,160 --> 00:14:59,680
to Australia.
We are discussing the first

256
00:14:59,680 --> 00:15:02,280
woman to get a life sentence
without parole.

257
00:15:02,720 --> 00:15:06,200
She only killed one person, her
partner John Charles Thomas

258
00:15:06,200 --> 00:15:08,880
Price.
But what she did was so barbaric

259
00:15:08,920 --> 00:15:12,440
and disgusting that the
government felt compelled to put

260
00:15:12,440 --> 00:15:15,480
her in prison for life when the
average time a murderer spends

261
00:15:16,120 --> 00:15:21,320
is about 25 years in Australia.
You and I were both alive when

262
00:15:21,320 --> 00:15:24,670
this happened.
We were in middle school, and

263
00:15:24,670 --> 00:15:27,750
you may recall that it was
global news that Catherine

264
00:15:27,750 --> 00:15:32,990
Knight scanned her boyfriend and
tried to serve him as a dish to

265
00:15:32,990 --> 00:15:36,310
his children.
Today will probably frustrate

266
00:15:36,310 --> 00:15:38,110
you, but not for the normal
reasons.

267
00:15:39,310 --> 00:15:43,150
Because by the end of this, what
I think I'm going to tell you is

268
00:15:43,150 --> 00:15:48,550
that misogyny and the confining
nature of masculinity are why

269
00:15:48,550 --> 00:15:53,800
she was able to get away with
abusing every man she ever

270
00:15:53,800 --> 00:16:03,200
dated.
And had these men had felt the

271
00:16:03,400 --> 00:16:10,360
ability to report her, perhaps
somebody's life could have been

272
00:16:10,360 --> 00:16:14,400
saved.
Okay, I feel frustrated already.

273
00:16:14,400 --> 00:16:17,240
Let's go.
And so let's talk about who she

274
00:16:17,240 --> 00:16:20,080
was before she became the
cannibal killer of Aberdeen.

275
00:16:21,240 --> 00:16:24,480
So Catherine Mary Knight was
born October 24th, 1955, to

276
00:16:24,480 --> 00:16:27,200
parents who'd gotten themselves
into a pretty big scandal.

277
00:16:27,440 --> 00:16:31,680
Her mother, Barbara, was married
to a man named Jack Ruffin in

278
00:16:31,680 --> 00:16:37,800
Hunters Valley in Aberdeen.
It's spelled ROUGAN, and I want

279
00:16:37,800 --> 00:16:40,080
to say Rogan so bad, but it's
wrong.

280
00:16:41,360 --> 00:16:43,400
It was in Hunters Valley in
Aberdeen, Australia.

281
00:16:43,720 --> 00:16:46,920
She was having an affair with a
man named Ken Knight, and both

282
00:16:46,920 --> 00:16:50,040
Ken and Jack worked for the same
slaughterhouse.

283
00:16:50,800 --> 00:16:55,040
Oh, isn't that lovely?
In fact, Ten was a pretty good

284
00:16:55,040 --> 00:16:58,800
guy, except for the whole
stealing your girl situation

285
00:16:58,800 --> 00:17:01,560
that went down.
Boyfriend #2.

286
00:17:05,240 --> 00:17:10,000
They all hung out together.
Jack and Barbara, along with all

287
00:17:10,000 --> 00:17:12,800
the other people.
Slaughterhouses in the 1950s in

288
00:17:12,800 --> 00:17:16,280
this area were pretty common.
It was major unskilled.

289
00:17:16,280 --> 00:17:19,980
Well I would say unskilled labor
jobs, but non education based

290
00:17:19,980 --> 00:17:21,900
jobs.
What do you call those?

291
00:17:25,140 --> 00:17:28,339
I don't know.
When people aren't trade, there

292
00:17:28,339 --> 00:17:30,180
you go trade.
So what do you mean not

293
00:17:30,180 --> 00:17:32,380
education based?
So you don't go to college to

294
00:17:32,380 --> 00:17:34,100
get this job?
Yeah, but you do still need to

295
00:17:34,100 --> 00:17:36,100
learn like how to do.
Okay, you go to trade school,

296
00:17:36,100 --> 00:17:36,620
right?
So right.

297
00:17:36,620 --> 00:17:39,340
So these are trade based jobs
for mining and pretty much

298
00:17:39,860 --> 00:17:42,420
manufacturing and working in
slaughterhouses.

299
00:17:42,740 --> 00:17:47,890
Pretty common back then, but
they met in the bar and Ken

300
00:17:47,890 --> 00:17:50,450
flirted with her in front of her
very drunk husband, but he was

301
00:17:50,450 --> 00:17:54,290
too drunk to realize now.
Barbara and Jack were high

302
00:17:54,290 --> 00:17:57,450
school sweethearts and they had
four kids, two teenage boys and

303
00:17:57,450 --> 00:18:00,250
two younger children, and she
felt trapped in marriage that

304
00:18:00,250 --> 00:18:03,170
she entered way too early.
She never even considered

305
00:18:03,170 --> 00:18:05,410
divorce because it was unheard
of back then.

306
00:18:05,970 --> 00:18:08,210
But an affair?
No problem.

307
00:18:09,430 --> 00:18:12,270
People were always having
affairs in Aberdeen and Ken was

308
00:18:12,270 --> 00:18:14,430
there and he liked her.
So one night when they were all

309
00:18:14,430 --> 00:18:17,790
drinking, Jack got taken back
home because he was wasted.

310
00:18:18,150 --> 00:18:20,950
So Barbara went home with Ken
instead, and then they ignored

311
00:18:20,950 --> 00:18:23,470
each other in public.
Just playing it off.

312
00:18:23,630 --> 00:18:25,350
Yep.
Made sure that they never

313
00:18:25,350 --> 00:18:30,110
interacted again in public.
But one day she was home and

314
00:18:30,110 --> 00:18:32,550
Jack saw a bruise on her thigh
that he thought look like a

315
00:18:32,550 --> 00:18:35,540
handprint.
And he beat the ever loving crap

316
00:18:35,540 --> 00:18:37,580
out of Barbara and threw her out
of the house and all of her

317
00:18:37,580 --> 00:18:40,540
stuff with her.
You didn't ask her where it came

318
00:18:40,540 --> 00:18:43,180
from.
You just assumed within the

319
00:18:43,500 --> 00:18:45,340
within a day, the entire town
knew.

320
00:18:45,340 --> 00:18:47,700
Now, mind you, the town had
about 1500 citizens.

321
00:18:48,660 --> 00:18:52,180
And so she moved into Jack's
very tiny apartment that he got

322
00:18:52,180 --> 00:18:55,660
from the job.
It was it was bad.

323
00:18:56,300 --> 00:18:59,580
Bad enough that like her teen
boys would spit at her in the

324
00:18:59,580 --> 00:19:02,420
street if they saw her.
They sided with their dad

325
00:19:02,420 --> 00:19:05,340
wholeheartedly.
The two youngest kids were sent

326
00:19:05,340 --> 00:19:08,380
to go live with an aunt in
Sydney, roughly 200 miles away.

327
00:19:08,900 --> 00:19:13,260
And so Ken and Barbara left, and
they went to a city called

328
00:19:13,260 --> 00:19:17,020
Marine.
He got a job at a slaughterhouse

329
00:19:17,020 --> 00:19:19,540
there.
Barbara got her divorce, and she

330
00:19:19,540 --> 00:19:21,380
also lost her friends and her
family.

331
00:19:21,420 --> 00:19:23,860
And her kids, I mean.
That's what happens when you

332
00:19:23,860 --> 00:19:26,500
cheat.
One week after the divorce was

333
00:19:26,500 --> 00:19:28,580
approved, she got married to
Ken.

334
00:19:29,140 --> 00:19:32,850
She had two boys within the same
year, which means those

335
00:19:32,890 --> 00:19:34,970
back-to-back pregnancy.
Those back-to-back.

336
00:19:34,970 --> 00:19:38,130
Oh goodness.
And she pretty much walked from

337
00:19:38,130 --> 00:19:41,490
a man who didn't really love her
into the arms of a man who

338
00:19:41,490 --> 00:19:44,890
didn't really love her, but was
also a hardcore alcoholic.

339
00:19:46,050 --> 00:19:48,370
So you downgraded.
She downgraded.

340
00:19:48,970 --> 00:19:51,330
Barbara was aware that cheating
again meant that she'd lose her

341
00:19:51,330 --> 00:19:54,330
children, so she was just gonna
try and stick it out for Ken.

342
00:19:55,530 --> 00:19:57,930
But Ken was kind of awful to
her.

343
00:19:57,930 --> 00:20:00,970
Specifically, he was very
demanding sexually.

344
00:20:01,460 --> 00:20:03,780
And if she would deny him, he'd
attempt to beat her into

345
00:20:03,780 --> 00:20:05,980
submission.
And when that stopped working,

346
00:20:05,980 --> 00:20:08,620
he would pretty much chase her
around the house and rape her,

347
00:20:09,820 --> 00:20:11,340
sometimes 10 times a day.
Oh.

348
00:20:12,660 --> 00:20:17,980
My God, so when Barbara found
out that she was pregnant and it

349
00:20:17,980 --> 00:20:21,340
was twin girls, she was so
happy.

350
00:20:21,700 --> 00:20:24,060
Now she had like some allies in
the house.

351
00:20:28,060 --> 00:20:33,490
So Catherine and her sister Joy
were born in Tannerfield, NSW.

352
00:20:34,650 --> 00:20:37,970
Joy was a tomboy who very
quickly hung out with the boys

353
00:20:37,970 --> 00:20:40,050
in the family.
So Catherine ended up being her

354
00:20:40,050 --> 00:20:43,210
mother's only friend.
She was a pretty normal kid in

355
00:20:43,210 --> 00:20:47,610
the midst of a toxic family.
Cam was very strict, hyper

356
00:20:47,610 --> 00:20:49,610
conservative.
The kids were frequently whipped

357
00:20:49,610 --> 00:20:52,690
for any bad behavior.
But Catherine learned very

358
00:20:52,690 --> 00:20:54,810
quickly, and she was never
whooped for the same thing

359
00:20:54,810 --> 00:20:57,530
twice.
She actually learned very early

360
00:20:57,530 --> 00:21:01,330
how to deal with her dad's
intensity, and she began to

361
00:21:01,370 --> 00:21:04,090
idolize him almost.
She treated him like a God,

362
00:21:04,570 --> 00:21:08,250
which hurt Barbara's feelings
because she was like, Dang it,

363
00:21:08,250 --> 00:21:11,570
we were supposed to be besties
and now you're on his side.

364
00:21:12,050 --> 00:21:13,770
Kids always flock to the dead
for some reason.

365
00:21:13,770 --> 00:21:18,650
I don't know why.
Well then Jack died in 1959.

366
00:21:18,730 --> 00:21:24,050
Catherine was four years old, so
ex-husband dies and the two

367
00:21:24,050 --> 00:21:27,690
older boys move in with Barbara
and Ken.

368
00:21:29,150 --> 00:21:33,110
They very quickly adapt to Ken's
intensity and the loathing of

369
00:21:33,110 --> 00:21:35,270
their mother.
They already viewed her as a

370
00:21:35,270 --> 00:21:39,190
whore, and they also viewed all
women in this way.

371
00:21:41,630 --> 00:21:44,430
They pushed their luck a little
bit too many times in town

372
00:21:44,430 --> 00:21:47,990
though, and they got blacklisted
from pretty much every town

373
00:21:47,990 --> 00:21:51,950
event for being creeps.
They saw Joy as one of the boys

374
00:21:51,950 --> 00:21:56,630
which left Catherine to be
sexually groomed by her brothers

375
00:21:56,630 --> 00:22:00,650
from roughly the age of 4 to 14.
Catherine thought that this was

376
00:22:00,650 --> 00:22:04,330
just the way men are because her
mother had been telling her

377
00:22:04,330 --> 00:22:07,650
stories about being raped by her
father since she could remember.

378
00:22:08,490 --> 00:22:10,250
Like at one point, Catherine
asked her mother.

379
00:22:10,250 --> 00:22:12,650
What do you say if you don't
want to do those things?

380
00:22:12,810 --> 00:22:14,890
Say fucking no, well, her mom
responded.

381
00:22:14,890 --> 00:22:16,330
Just let them do what they want
with you.

382
00:22:16,330 --> 00:22:18,370
It's easier that way.
You say no.

383
00:22:18,370 --> 00:22:20,770
Do you kick them in the balls?
Did they try to do anything

384
00:22:20,770 --> 00:22:21,690
else?
There you go.

385
00:22:21,850 --> 00:22:24,730
Listen to Brian.
Yes, before Catherine was even a

386
00:22:24,730 --> 00:22:27,530
teenager herself.
All four of her brothers were

387
00:22:28,270 --> 00:22:31,710
molesting her.
She started trying to find ways

388
00:22:31,710 --> 00:22:36,070
to not be in the house, and she
had an uncle named OO was a

389
00:22:36,070 --> 00:22:38,550
famous horseman who had a farm
where he took care of his

390
00:22:38,550 --> 00:22:41,750
rescues and champion horses.
Catherine loved it there.

391
00:22:41,750 --> 00:22:44,950
She loved learning from him.
She would rescue any injured

392
00:22:44,950 --> 00:22:46,550
animal she could find and bring
it home.

393
00:22:46,910 --> 00:22:49,310
This was the one thing that she
was willing to fight her father

394
00:22:49,310 --> 00:22:51,510
on.
She didn't care that she made

395
00:22:51,510 --> 00:22:54,310
him mad.
She was going to save this bird

396
00:22:54,310 --> 00:22:55,710
she found on the side of the
road.

397
00:22:56,120 --> 00:22:58,760
If she found a bigger injured
animal, she took it to Oscar and

398
00:22:58,760 --> 00:23:02,240
he would take it to a vet or she
would bring him to where it was.

399
00:23:03,200 --> 00:23:06,160
Unfortunately, Oscar had his own
demons and he took his life when

400
00:23:06,160 --> 00:23:10,640
Catherine was 14 years.
Old It was just a bit too much

401
00:23:10,640 --> 00:23:13,280
for Catherine to take and she
was grieving really hard.

402
00:23:13,560 --> 00:23:17,680
It just sounds like like the
only guy that was yeah, so far

403
00:23:17,680 --> 00:23:19,760
the only one who was nice to her
is Uncle Oscar.

404
00:23:19,800 --> 00:23:21,400
Yeah.
Decent guy in her life.

405
00:23:21,400 --> 00:23:23,840
Great.
OK, well right after he dies,

406
00:23:24,270 --> 00:23:27,270
one of her brothers comes into
the room to, you know, like, oh,

407
00:23:27,270 --> 00:23:30,390
let's hang out so he can like
touch her, you know, in that

408
00:23:30,510 --> 00:23:34,350
subtle way.
And she punched him so hard that

409
00:23:34,350 --> 00:23:37,910
she nearly broke his jaw and
said if you ever touch me again,

410
00:23:37,910 --> 00:23:39,350
I will castrate.
Yes.

411
00:23:40,510 --> 00:23:43,350
Now the older boys heard about
this and they were like, let's

412
00:23:43,350 --> 00:23:47,310
go see what Catherine's doing.
And the bathroom was pretty sad,

413
00:23:47,310 --> 00:23:50,990
but she seemed pretty normal.
So they just assumed that like,

414
00:23:51,030 --> 00:23:54,030
OK, maybe our younger brother
like pushed things too far and

415
00:23:54,030 --> 00:23:56,830
that's why she hit him.
They all learned their lesson

416
00:23:56,830 --> 00:23:59,310
too.
One had a black eye for a month,

417
00:23:59,510 --> 00:24:02,990
the other got stabbed.
The boys told their parents it

418
00:24:02,990 --> 00:24:04,910
was just from fighting at
school.

419
00:24:05,030 --> 00:24:07,430
It's not because we were trying
to touch her sister and she

420
00:24:07,430 --> 00:24:10,150
fucked us up.
No, I love it.

421
00:24:10,390 --> 00:24:13,070
Thank you.
I're told because that mean they

422
00:24:13,070 --> 00:24:15,660
would have to tell on
themselves, and they didn't

423
00:24:15,660 --> 00:24:18,260
doubt Catherine when she said
she'd castrate them because

424
00:24:18,260 --> 00:24:20,980
she'd learned how to do it on
Uncle Oscar's farm.

425
00:24:20,980 --> 00:24:23,780
I love.
It so much so.

426
00:24:23,780 --> 00:24:25,620
On one hand, things are going
pretty good for Catherine.

427
00:24:25,620 --> 00:24:27,820
She just learned that if you
beat the show of a man, he won't

428
00:24:27,860 --> 00:24:29,620
put his hands on you anymore.
Yeah, basically.

429
00:24:30,500 --> 00:24:34,180
However, after Uncle Oscar died,
the family realized that the

430
00:24:34,180 --> 00:24:37,940
town of Maury was only putting
up with them because Oscar was a

431
00:24:37,940 --> 00:24:41,720
celebrity and they didn't really
like the very sinful Barbara,

432
00:24:41,720 --> 00:24:44,560
and they definitely didn't like
her sinful teenage boys who kept

433
00:24:44,560 --> 00:24:47,880
touching girls in town.
So when Catherine was 15, they

434
00:24:47,880 --> 00:24:53,560
moved back to Aberdeen.
She entered Muscle Brook High

435
00:24:53,560 --> 00:24:57,240
School in 1969.
She was the New Girl, and within

436
00:24:57,240 --> 00:25:00,440
weeks, within the first week,
kids knew that they shouldn't

437
00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:03,160
bother her.
She was this like sweet, cute

438
00:25:03,160 --> 00:25:06,390
redhead, pretty tall.
She'd smile and laugh with you

439
00:25:06,390 --> 00:25:09,550
until you made her mad, and then
she'd just rip into somebody.

440
00:25:09,550 --> 00:25:13,070
Just verbally disrespectful.
And by chance, if you put your

441
00:25:13,070 --> 00:25:16,030
hands on her at all, she would
get you back.

442
00:25:17,230 --> 00:25:20,150
Like one day on the school bus a
girl tripped her, and the next

443
00:25:20,150 --> 00:25:22,350
day Catherine cut off her entire
ponytail.

444
00:25:23,510 --> 00:25:27,430
A boy on the bus talked about
her breasts, or lack of thereof,

445
00:25:27,870 --> 00:25:31,310
and when she walked by him, she
smashed his face into the bus

446
00:25:31,310 --> 00:25:35,240
seat in front of him.
She was waging war on these bus

447
00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:37,480
rides.
And then at school, the the kids

448
00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:40,440
would report her and the
teachers were like, this doesn't

449
00:25:40,440 --> 00:25:44,520
make sense, like she's they're
saying that they like she beat

450
00:25:44,520 --> 00:25:47,640
them up, but she's sitting here
just looking chill.

451
00:25:49,040 --> 00:25:51,280
And then essentially in these
little meetings, the bullies

452
00:25:51,280 --> 00:25:52,920
would admit that they had
provoked her.

453
00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:56,960
And even though her retaliations
went from zero to 100, the staff

454
00:25:56,960 --> 00:25:58,720
pretty much was like, well, you
don't want your teeth knocked

455
00:25:58,720 --> 00:25:59,720
out.
Leave her alone, I mean.

456
00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:04,250
Yeah, pretty much everybody in
the school took that position.

457
00:26:04,250 --> 00:26:06,810
Her peers respected her.
The younger kids feared her.

458
00:26:07,050 --> 00:26:13,050
Is a good.
Catherine kept a knife in the

459
00:26:13,050 --> 00:26:17,210
fold of her skirt at her waist.
It was so she could grab it if

460
00:26:17,210 --> 00:26:19,170
she needed it.
But it was close enough to her

461
00:26:19,170 --> 00:26:23,130
body that no male teacher, who
were the predominant gender of

462
00:26:23,130 --> 00:26:26,090
the teachers at the school,
would ever touch her to look for

463
00:26:26,090 --> 00:26:28,890
it.
And she stabbed a boy at school

464
00:26:28,890 --> 00:26:32,570
one day.
They couldn't find the knife, so

465
00:26:32,570 --> 00:26:34,130
they couldn't prove that it had
been done.

466
00:26:34,650 --> 00:26:36,530
So they sent home a little
behavior letter.

467
00:26:37,050 --> 00:26:40,850
This happened a lot.
Now Ken would get those letters

468
00:26:40,970 --> 00:26:43,130
and he would say, did the boy
deserve it?

469
00:26:43,650 --> 00:26:48,810
And Catherine would say, yes.
As far as Ken was concerned, his

470
00:26:48,810 --> 00:26:52,050
daughter was defending her honor
from these fresh boys in town,

471
00:26:52,810 --> 00:26:55,050
which is kind of funny because
he never made the connection

472
00:26:55,050 --> 00:26:58,210
that his own sons got rocked by
Catherine as well.

473
00:27:00,100 --> 00:27:01,900
Just kind of left Catherine and
just, you know, get her

474
00:27:01,900 --> 00:27:05,580
education and not be bothered.
Since she was a farm kid, nobody

475
00:27:05,580 --> 00:27:08,100
really expected her to do well
in school, but she did all

476
00:27:08,100 --> 00:27:10,180
right.
She was on the path to having a

477
00:27:10,180 --> 00:27:13,140
pretty good life.
And then her favorite teacher

478
00:27:13,140 --> 00:27:17,420
gave her a failing grade.
She sat through his whole class,

479
00:27:17,420 --> 00:27:22,660
just Stony silent.
And then after the bell rang and

480
00:27:22,700 --> 00:27:25,620
the other kids left, he walked
over to her and he was just

481
00:27:25,620 --> 00:27:28,380
like, what's wrong?
And she threw the paper at him

482
00:27:28,840 --> 00:27:32,880
and began screaming him.
And then she grabbed the knife

483
00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:35,920
out of her waistband and stabbed
her teacher.

484
00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:41,000
She probably would have killed
him if he hadn't punched her.

485
00:27:41,800 --> 00:27:45,920
And it was the kind of punch
that knocks you on your ass.

486
00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:48,920
And first there was a moment of
silence.

487
00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:51,760
And then Catherine just began
wailing.

488
00:27:51,760 --> 00:27:56,000
Just screaming, sobbing.
Now he was a good teacher.

489
00:27:56,000 --> 00:28:00,280
And he he didn't mean to punch
her like a grown man, but he was

490
00:28:00,280 --> 00:28:06,080
in fight or flight mode.
So he goes over to her and he

491
00:28:06,080 --> 00:28:08,040
leans over her and he's like,
Catherine, are you OK?

492
00:28:08,040 --> 00:28:10,680
And at that moment, other
students arrive.

493
00:28:11,320 --> 00:28:15,560
To a crying girl and there's
blood everywhere.

494
00:28:15,600 --> 00:28:19,160
It's not hers.
This is why, well, her teacher

495
00:28:19,160 --> 00:28:21,120
was suspended.
Catherine played the victim.

496
00:28:21,560 --> 00:28:24,520
The school ended up deciding to
do an investigation and it was

497
00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:26,880
all people who had never met
Catherine before.

498
00:28:27,360 --> 00:28:29,440
And at the end of the
investigation they were just

499
00:28:29,440 --> 00:28:33,480
like you've been letting this
kid just run around and rule

500
00:28:33,480 --> 00:28:36,520
your school.
She is the problem here.

501
00:28:37,360 --> 00:28:39,960
They reinstated her teacher with
all his back pay.

502
00:28:40,880 --> 00:28:44,240
They allowed her to school to go
back to school if she agreed.

503
00:28:44,320 --> 00:28:46,880
No more fighting.
Apologize to your teacher and

504
00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:49,640
you're on probation.
If you get into another like

505
00:28:49,640 --> 00:28:51,520
fight or stab somebody else,
you're out.

506
00:28:52,040 --> 00:28:54,720
She finished the school year
avoiding that teacher, and then

507
00:28:54,720 --> 00:28:56,560
she never went to school after
that ever again.

508
00:28:59,310 --> 00:29:00,710
What the hell was the point
then?

509
00:29:00,710 --> 00:29:04,470
So what she did the next next
work day, she decides she wants

510
00:29:04,470 --> 00:29:06,350
to go to the Aberdeen
slaughterhouse with her dad.

511
00:29:07,030 --> 00:29:11,070
She wanted to be like her dad
anyway, so she's just like why

512
00:29:11,070 --> 00:29:14,790
not do it a couple years sooner?
The shift manager saw this

513
00:29:14,790 --> 00:29:17,910
skinny little 15 year old and
immediately went no, this is not

514
00:29:17,910 --> 00:29:21,550
work for you.
She kept her cool knowing that

515
00:29:21,550 --> 00:29:25,470
her dad was at work and she
ended up leaving and going to a

516
00:29:25,470 --> 00:29:28,260
fabric factory in town and
getting a job there.

517
00:29:28,540 --> 00:29:32,860
She was already really good at
making her own clothing and so

518
00:29:32,860 --> 00:29:37,140
when the job was to cut cloth to
size, which you really don't

519
00:29:37,140 --> 00:29:40,460
want to mess up on because
nobody wants 1 pant leg longer

520
00:29:40,460 --> 00:29:44,740
than the other, her employers
are pretty happy with her work.

521
00:29:44,740 --> 00:29:46,660
She's making enough money.
She started, she moved out of

522
00:29:46,660 --> 00:29:50,060
her parents house.
Now she found the women at the

523
00:29:50,060 --> 00:29:54,300
factory boring, so she would go
hang out at the bar with the

524
00:29:54,300 --> 00:29:55,980
slaughterhouse employees after
work.

525
00:29:56,540 --> 00:30:00,940
And that shift manager who told
her no was completely taken

526
00:30:00,940 --> 00:30:05,940
aback to see Catherine in the
bar making jokes and threatening

527
00:30:05,940 --> 00:30:12,620
to fight grown men in the bar.
Now she didn't drink because I

528
00:30:12,620 --> 00:30:15,820
think she grew up watching her
father be very drunk.

529
00:30:17,340 --> 00:30:22,300
They were also all of the men
very kind of freaked out by how

530
00:30:22,300 --> 00:30:25,860
sexually forward she was.
And she kind of made her way

531
00:30:25,860 --> 00:30:30,020
through the single men at the
slaughterhouse like she was so

532
00:30:30,020 --> 00:30:33,820
sexually forward that in some
ways it was off putting from the

533
00:30:33,820 --> 00:30:39,700
men she was trying to date.
Then in 1971 when she was 16,

534
00:30:39,700 --> 00:30:43,140
she applies for her dream job
again and they accept her giving

535
00:30:43,140 --> 00:30:45,900
her pretty much the crappiest
job in the place, cutting up

536
00:30:45,900 --> 00:30:49,820
meat for dog food.
It's generally the scraps from

537
00:30:49,820 --> 00:30:54,220
all the other major cuts which
she was too good for dog food.

538
00:30:55,610 --> 00:30:59,010
The she was too skilled for it.
She had watched her dad and her

539
00:30:59,010 --> 00:31:02,130
dad is one of the pretty much
best people at this place.

540
00:31:02,930 --> 00:31:06,090
So within weeks her bosses
started testing her and giving

541
00:31:06,090 --> 00:31:09,770
her more complex jobs.
Once she like proved that she

542
00:31:09,850 --> 00:31:12,210
mastered that, they moved her to
another station.

543
00:31:12,530 --> 00:31:15,930
Over only a few months, she met
almost everybody in the factory

544
00:31:16,850 --> 00:31:19,130
and they were all in a rude
awakening.

545
00:31:19,130 --> 00:31:21,130
If you thought you could treat
Catherine Knight like she was a

546
00:31:21,130 --> 00:31:21,850
stupid.
Little girl.

547
00:31:22,980 --> 00:31:25,500
If a man in the line raised his
voice at her, she would look at

548
00:31:25,500 --> 00:31:28,660
him and say, we can always go
settle this with our fucking

549
00:31:28,660 --> 00:31:31,020
knives.
She was ready to.

550
00:31:31,740 --> 00:31:37,100
Hurt that nobody ever took her
up on her offer, though she

551
00:31:37,180 --> 00:31:40,100
eventually did relax enough to
stop threatening her coworkers

552
00:31:40,140 --> 00:31:42,980
and she would have fun with them
cutting meat up, making jokes.

553
00:31:43,540 --> 00:31:46,820
She was moved to deboning in
1972, which is one of the most

554
00:31:46,820 --> 00:31:48,700
complex jobs in the
slaughterhouse, and I had to

555
00:31:48,700 --> 00:31:51,110
Google why.
The boning is the process where

556
00:31:51,110 --> 00:31:54,550
you skin, remove the excess fat,
remove the bone and any

557
00:31:54,550 --> 00:31:57,550
blemishes to the meat.
Your job is to do all of that

558
00:31:57,550 --> 00:31:59,710
while trying to preserve as much
meat as possible.

559
00:32:00,750 --> 00:32:03,350
This was where her father worked
and he had earned A reputation

560
00:32:03,350 --> 00:32:05,030
of being one of the best people
there.

561
00:32:05,990 --> 00:32:08,390
She was pretty hype.
She was like nice.

562
00:32:08,390 --> 00:32:13,430
I get to work with my dad.
Ken was a little salty.

563
00:32:15,230 --> 00:32:19,740
He had been the top for like
decades because he did the job

564
00:32:19,740 --> 00:32:23,540
before they'd moved to Maury,
and now his own kid was kind of

565
00:32:23,540 --> 00:32:26,860
vying for his spot.
He they never spoke about it

566
00:32:26,860 --> 00:32:28,860
though.
It was just it was a silent

567
00:32:28,860 --> 00:32:32,900
like.
His silent rivalry, but

568
00:32:32,900 --> 00:32:35,100
Catherine kind of brought that
out of every guy when she worked

569
00:32:35,100 --> 00:32:37,340
next to them.
They the men couldn't take the

570
00:32:37,340 --> 00:32:39,580
hit to their ego that a 16 year
old was better at them.

571
00:32:39,580 --> 00:32:43,380
So everyone was working their
hardest to try and beat her and

572
00:32:43,380 --> 00:32:46,460
if she was better than them then
they were just trying to like

573
00:32:47,530 --> 00:32:50,810
not be ashamed and reach her
level.

574
00:32:50,810 --> 00:32:52,690
So at least they were on the
same level.

575
00:32:54,690 --> 00:32:57,570
Because of all this competition.
Now in the slaughterhouse, the

576
00:32:57,570 --> 00:33:00,250
owners are hype.
So much more meats getting cut

577
00:33:00,330 --> 00:33:03,570
and it's also much better.
So they decided they wanted to

578
00:33:03,570 --> 00:33:06,330
show Catherine appreciation but
they did not want to give her a

579
00:33:06,330 --> 00:33:09,090
raise.
So exactly one year from her

580
00:33:09,090 --> 00:33:12,730
start date, she was gifted a set
of personalized knives and a

581
00:33:12,730 --> 00:33:14,570
custom leather bag to carry them
in.

582
00:33:14,960 --> 00:33:17,880
She took them to work every day
at home, she sharpened and

583
00:33:17,880 --> 00:33:20,640
displayed them around the house.
They were her most prized

584
00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:22,440
possession.
I think that's even better than

585
00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:25,360
a raise.
Actually, I I just want to write

586
00:33:25,360 --> 00:33:27,080
a little bag that says
Catherine.

587
00:33:27,320 --> 00:33:30,440
Look, I want one personal set of
life that are nice and

588
00:33:30,440 --> 00:33:31,880
sharpened.
Oh yes.

589
00:33:31,880 --> 00:33:36,120
Anyway, the owners didn't
actually even need to ask

590
00:33:36,120 --> 00:33:38,320
Catherine to show it off.
She did it on her own.

591
00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:41,200
And on her days off and lunch
breaks, she come and hang out

592
00:33:41,200 --> 00:33:43,160
with her friends from different
departments.

593
00:33:43,860 --> 00:33:46,100
Her favorite place to hang out
was the pig slaughtering

594
00:33:46,100 --> 00:33:49,620
department.
Now, unlike the cows who were

595
00:33:49,620 --> 00:33:53,420
killed with one blow because
they're so slow, you just hit

596
00:33:53,420 --> 00:33:54,340
them.
It's done.

597
00:33:54,340 --> 00:33:56,660
It's over with.
Pigs were smaller and kind of

598
00:33:56,660 --> 00:33:58,220
wily, and it took more to kill
them.

599
00:33:58,660 --> 00:34:01,300
Apparently, when you worked at
the slaughterhouse, the sound of

600
00:34:01,300 --> 00:34:05,300
dying hogs was heard all over
the building when the

601
00:34:05,300 --> 00:34:09,300
slaughtering moment happened.
Lovely, Catherine thought.

602
00:34:09,300 --> 00:34:12,150
The job was fascinating.
There was an old man who worked

603
00:34:12,150 --> 00:34:15,710
there who was kind of a grump,
and the only person he liked was

604
00:34:15,710 --> 00:34:18,469
Catherine.
Some people kind of made jokes

605
00:34:18,469 --> 00:34:21,469
that it was like a lecherous
relationship, but it seemed to

606
00:34:21,469 --> 00:34:25,350
just be a genuine friendship
between like, a grandpa and a

607
00:34:25,350 --> 00:34:27,550
teen girl.
She just wanted to know more

608
00:34:27,550 --> 00:34:31,949
about killing pigs, and so he
was so happy to have the company

609
00:34:32,110 --> 00:34:35,110
on her lunch breaks that he
would do stuff he wasn't

610
00:34:35,110 --> 00:34:39,469
supposed to, like killing the
pigs in front of her.

611
00:34:40,270 --> 00:34:45,389
Or he would start killing them
in worse ways because it made

612
00:34:45,389 --> 00:34:50,429
her happy.
Or one time he skinned a pig

613
00:34:50,429 --> 00:34:51,750
while it was alive.
No.

614
00:34:52,350 --> 00:34:56,590
Yep, and that only made
Catherine really interested in

615
00:34:56,590 --> 00:35:00,950
doing it herself.
So he let her slaughter the pigs

616
00:35:01,510 --> 00:35:05,270
and sometimes she chased them
around and like stabbed at them

617
00:35:05,750 --> 00:35:08,430
just to mess with them.
Oh my God, we're pigs.

618
00:35:09,290 --> 00:35:13,450
So Catherine had gone in just
like 3 years from a little girl

619
00:35:13,450 --> 00:35:16,410
who couldn't let a squirrel die
on the side of the road to a

620
00:35:16,530 --> 00:35:20,370
full blown animal torturer,
which as we know is one of the

621
00:35:20,370 --> 00:35:24,170
signs.
Yes, just had to be pigs.

622
00:35:24,730 --> 00:35:27,730
Now this was it wasn't like this
wasn't known around the

623
00:35:27,730 --> 00:35:30,370
facility, and you'd think that
men knowing she was into that

624
00:35:30,370 --> 00:35:31,650
sort of thing would turn them
off.

625
00:35:32,130 --> 00:35:35,690
But Nope, she was very
consistently asked out.

626
00:35:36,170 --> 00:35:39,830
She go from work to the bar and
then she fought the night away.

627
00:35:40,990 --> 00:35:48,510
By 1972 she was stocky, about 6
feet tall, 17 and she ended up

628
00:35:48,510 --> 00:35:51,070
making friends with a man named
David Kellet.

629
00:35:51,070 --> 00:35:53,790
He was 22.
One night out while they were

630
00:35:53,790 --> 00:35:57,990
drinking, another man insulted
David and David kind of stepped

631
00:35:57,990 --> 00:35:59,030
down.
He was like, I don't want to

632
00:35:59,030 --> 00:36:02,150
fight.
Catherine was like I do, and she

633
00:36:02,510 --> 00:36:07,210
knocked the guy out and she
swung on him until her hands

634
00:36:07,210 --> 00:36:09,770
were bloody and his teeth were
all over the floor.

635
00:36:10,290 --> 00:36:13,810
David and other coworkers had to
pull him off of the man.

636
00:36:14,570 --> 00:36:17,690
Now everybody else in the bar
was like, typical bar fight, but

637
00:36:17,690 --> 00:36:20,250
the bartender was like, she's
not drunk.

638
00:36:20,250 --> 00:36:23,130
And I know she's not drunk
because I've been sending her

639
00:36:23,130 --> 00:36:26,130
lemonades masqueraded as another
drink the whole night.

640
00:36:26,570 --> 00:36:28,930
So the bartender was like, this
is just Catherine being

641
00:36:28,930 --> 00:36:30,690
Catherine, and you need to
leave.

642
00:36:31,930 --> 00:36:34,450
The only other place that you
could go drink in the entire

643
00:36:34,690 --> 00:36:38,130
city was a hotel that was
literally across the street.

644
00:36:38,970 --> 00:36:42,730
So they went there.
David was in awe of her.

645
00:36:42,730 --> 00:36:46,090
He was just like, I've never had
anybody protect me.

646
00:36:46,930 --> 00:36:50,730
And the two began dating and
David got to see what it was

647
00:36:50,730 --> 00:36:53,210
like to date someone like
Catherine.

648
00:36:53,690 --> 00:36:55,530
She made wonderful home cooked
meals.

649
00:36:55,530 --> 00:36:57,450
She fixed and improved his
clothes.

650
00:36:57,770 --> 00:37:02,370
They had a stellar sex life that
people at the slaughterhouse

651
00:37:02,370 --> 00:37:04,370
when the guys talked could not
believe.

652
00:37:06,310 --> 00:37:10,310
Apparently she had the similar
sexual appetite as her father

653
00:37:10,790 --> 00:37:16,350
and David was happy about that,
so inevitably she takes him to

654
00:37:16,350 --> 00:37:19,230
meet her parents.
Now, at this point in time, Ken

655
00:37:19,230 --> 00:37:22,030
is heading towards retirement.
The family had moved outside of

656
00:37:22,030 --> 00:37:25,950
Aberdeen to a small farmhouse.
It wasn't to make money though.

657
00:37:26,150 --> 00:37:30,510
Most of the property had been
parceled out by the bank to pay

658
00:37:30,510 --> 00:37:32,470
for a previous owner that had
gone bankrupt.

659
00:37:32,470 --> 00:37:36,630
So it was just like this old
ramshackle farmhouse, but Ken

660
00:37:36,630 --> 00:37:39,030
was just like, listen, I'm just
trying to rest and chill for the

661
00:37:39,030 --> 00:37:41,950
rest of my life.
Ken was finally not being

662
00:37:41,950 --> 00:37:45,350
terrible to Barbara, not because
he wasn't a horrible person, but

663
00:37:45,350 --> 00:37:47,870
because he was too old to chase
her around the house anymore.

664
00:37:49,790 --> 00:37:55,070
Barbara, however, was a mess.
She had spent the last decade

665
00:37:55,350 --> 00:37:59,190
isolated from nearly everyone,
and it was definitely apparent

666
00:37:59,670 --> 00:38:03,830
in her behavior.
In fact, at one point David went

667
00:38:03,830 --> 00:38:11,150
to the kitchen to grab a beer
and Barbara corners him and just

668
00:38:11,150 --> 00:38:15,310
goes, You don't know this, but
Catherine's got to screw loose

669
00:38:16,110 --> 00:38:18,590
and he's just like, sure,
whatever.

670
00:38:18,870 --> 00:38:21,950
And she's like, no, I'm serious,
if you if you fuck up, she's

671
00:38:21,950 --> 00:38:24,590
going to kill you.
And David didn't believe it,

672
00:38:24,590 --> 00:38:28,970
though, because he'd only ever
seen her beat that one guy, and

673
00:38:28,970 --> 00:38:30,930
she'd never been anything but
nice to David, yeah.

674
00:38:31,570 --> 00:38:34,370
Because you were nice to her, so
you didn't fuck up.

675
00:38:34,410 --> 00:38:36,930
Won't wait till you fuck up.
Well, they got married a couple

676
00:38:36,930 --> 00:38:39,930
days after her 18th birthday.
It was super cheap ceremony.

677
00:38:40,210 --> 00:38:42,570
David was drunk because he was
so nervous, but he didn't blow

678
00:38:42,570 --> 00:38:44,930
it.
They had a party afterward.

679
00:38:44,930 --> 00:38:46,610
The folks from the
slaughterhouse were there.

680
00:38:46,850 --> 00:38:48,810
The Knight family, the Kellet
family.

681
00:38:49,250 --> 00:38:51,530
They went back to David's
company issued apartment to

682
00:38:51,530 --> 00:38:54,890
consummate their marriage.
They had sex three times and

683
00:38:54,890 --> 00:38:59,050
David fell asleep.
Catherine was not asleep.

684
00:38:59,730 --> 00:39:02,770
She was sitting there thinking
about all of this night comments

685
00:39:02,770 --> 00:39:05,490
that David's family had made
that they thought that she

686
00:39:05,490 --> 00:39:07,370
didn't get.
But she did get him.

687
00:39:07,450 --> 00:39:09,810
She just decided she wasn't
gonna beat anybody's ass on her

688
00:39:09,810 --> 00:39:12,410
wedding day.
Goodness gracious.

689
00:39:12,810 --> 00:39:14,570
So she wanted to talk about it
with David.

690
00:39:14,570 --> 00:39:18,290
So she tried to smack him awake,
and when that didn't work, she

691
00:39:18,290 --> 00:39:22,530
climbed on top of him and began
choking him, which woke him up.

692
00:39:22,970 --> 00:39:25,690
And he was very confused.
He was just like, why?

693
00:39:25,690 --> 00:39:28,270
Why did you choke me?
And she's just like, I want to

694
00:39:28,270 --> 00:39:30,550
talk to you.
He's like, I have scratches.

695
00:39:30,590 --> 00:39:32,910
I am now bruised.
I don't understand what's going

696
00:39:32,910 --> 00:39:35,590
on.
And Catherine was showing him

697
00:39:35,590 --> 00:39:38,990
who she really was.
On the wedding night.

698
00:39:39,350 --> 00:39:42,910
Well, So what happens next is
that she demands to have sex

699
00:39:42,910 --> 00:39:49,750
three more times because her mom
had told her that on their

700
00:39:49,750 --> 00:39:53,610
wedding night they had had sex
five times.

701
00:39:53,610 --> 00:39:57,810
And she went to beat her dad's
record, which totally turned

702
00:39:57,810 --> 00:40:00,290
David off.
And he told her he's like,

703
00:40:00,290 --> 00:40:04,250
listen, I'm going to go to the
bathroom, freshen up, I'll meet

704
00:40:04,250 --> 00:40:07,610
you in the bedroom, and she's
like, you better be here.

705
00:40:08,450 --> 00:40:10,730
He goes in the bathroom, the
only door in the entire

706
00:40:10,730 --> 00:40:14,490
apartment that locks locks the
door, climbs into the tub and

707
00:40:14,490 --> 00:40:18,870
goes back to sleep.
Passes out while Catherine is

708
00:40:18,870 --> 00:40:21,990
banging on the bathroom door.
Oh no.

709
00:40:24,310 --> 00:40:27,310
After that though, she cooled
it.

710
00:40:27,990 --> 00:40:31,150
She turned off her crazy, as men
are want to say.

711
00:40:32,830 --> 00:40:36,670
They went back to work where
David would show up, exhausted

712
00:40:36,750 --> 00:40:39,590
from Catherine wanting to have
sex all night long, and she

713
00:40:39,590 --> 00:40:42,110
would show up full of energy,
ready to cut.

714
00:40:42,470 --> 00:40:45,750
Animals up.
She did all of her wifely duties

715
00:40:45,790 --> 00:40:52,070
expertly because Barbara was so
depressed that she had stopped

716
00:40:52,070 --> 00:40:54,430
doing things.
So Catherine sort of became very

717
00:40:54,430 --> 00:40:58,510
domestic when she was a child.
So now that she is an adult,

718
00:40:59,070 --> 00:41:02,590
she's cleaning everything, She's
fixing all the clothes, she's

719
00:41:02,590 --> 00:41:09,550
making him new clothes.
She was trying so hard to be

720
00:41:09,550 --> 00:41:12,310
perfect and David couldn't
really figure out what had

721
00:41:12,310 --> 00:41:14,590
happened with the whole choking
situation.

722
00:41:14,970 --> 00:41:18,810
But since things seemed normal,
he was just going to push that

723
00:41:18,890 --> 00:41:20,890
to the back and not bring it up
anymore.

724
00:41:22,290 --> 00:41:25,170
The problem with all this is
that Catherine was faking being

725
00:41:25,170 --> 00:41:30,610
the perfect wife, and months of
doing all this stuff and not

726
00:41:30,610 --> 00:41:33,810
really entirely being true to
herself was taking a toll.

727
00:41:34,930 --> 00:41:38,650
And she started resenting him a
little bit and she started like

728
00:41:38,730 --> 00:41:44,170
picking at him like if he was
late, her big thing.

729
00:41:44,540 --> 00:41:46,460
And this is going to be repeated
throughout this entire

730
00:41:46,460 --> 00:41:51,060
situation.
Her big thing is she always says

731
00:41:51,060 --> 00:41:52,860
that someone she's dating is
cheating on her.

732
00:41:55,180 --> 00:41:59,020
Everyone.
This went on until 1975, and

733
00:41:59,020 --> 00:42:02,540
David got kind of sick of it.
He was living in a home where

734
00:42:02,540 --> 00:42:07,340
his wife went from enraged to
not and then back.

735
00:42:07,340 --> 00:42:11,100
It was super stressful.
And then Catherine, for a little

736
00:42:11,100 --> 00:42:15,010
bit, just stopped bothering him.
They gone to visit her parents.

737
00:42:17,610 --> 00:42:22,410
And she kind of, I guess,
thought about maybe she watched

738
00:42:22,410 --> 00:42:24,970
them and she wondered, like, I
wonder why they've been married

739
00:42:24,970 --> 00:42:27,050
for so long and Dad never
stepped out on Mom.

740
00:42:27,450 --> 00:42:31,610
And she's like, maybe that's
because Barbara didn't bother

741
00:42:31,610 --> 00:42:33,810
Ken about all the stuff that he
did.

742
00:42:34,970 --> 00:42:44,860
So they had a couple of months
in 75 of calm until August when

743
00:42:44,860 --> 00:42:48,940
she found out she was pregnant
and every bit of progress they

744
00:42:48,940 --> 00:42:51,620
were making towards this being a
normal relationship was over.

745
00:42:52,460 --> 00:42:54,820
One night he came home to change
his clothes before going to the

746
00:42:54,820 --> 00:42:59,260
bar and she was she insisted
that he was changing so he could

747
00:42:59,260 --> 00:43:02,260
go me another woman.
She took all of his clothes,

748
00:43:02,460 --> 00:43:04,540
threw them in the tub, covered
them in lighter fluid and set

749
00:43:04,540 --> 00:43:08,020
them on fire.
The Aberdeen Fire Department

750
00:43:08,020 --> 00:43:12,410
shows up with her husband in
tow, the tub's melted, the house

751
00:43:12,410 --> 00:43:15,210
is full of soot, the neighbors
are all outside watching.

752
00:43:15,250 --> 00:43:19,970
David is mortified and Catherine
is just staring them all, just

753
00:43:19,970 --> 00:43:24,330
staring at them like I dare you
to see what's going on right

754
00:43:24,330 --> 00:43:24,730
now.
The.

755
00:43:25,490 --> 00:43:29,530
Fuck you're looking at.
David didn't go to the bar for

756
00:43:29,530 --> 00:43:33,730
weeks, mind you.
He's not at the bar.

757
00:43:33,970 --> 00:43:36,450
He's going home and come.
He's going to work and come back

758
00:43:36,450 --> 00:43:38,170
home.
She's still accusing him of

759
00:43:38,170 --> 00:43:41,420
cheating all day, Every day he
went back to drinking so he

760
00:43:41,420 --> 00:43:46,260
could just get away from her.
One night he came home from the

761
00:43:46,260 --> 00:43:50,140
bar and she was in one of her
rages while ironing his clothes

762
00:43:50,940 --> 00:43:52,780
and she hit him in the face with
the iron.

763
00:43:54,820 --> 00:43:58,380
He ran to the bathroom to get
away from her and she screamed

764
00:43:58,660 --> 00:44:02,980
and hit the door with the iron
until finally she quieted down

765
00:44:02,980 --> 00:44:06,860
and begged for forgiveness.
David forgave her.

766
00:44:08,300 --> 00:44:11,550
The next day he walked into I
See Your Face.

767
00:44:11,950 --> 00:44:15,150
Brian is shaking his head.
No, I would not like.

768
00:44:15,590 --> 00:44:17,750
That's OK.
Well, I forgive you, but guess

769
00:44:17,750 --> 00:44:21,390
what?
Leaving the next day, his boss

770
00:44:21,390 --> 00:44:23,830
took him to the hospital.
No one asked any questions,

771
00:44:23,830 --> 00:44:27,270
which is exactly what he wanted.
He actually started doing what

772
00:44:27,270 --> 00:44:29,270
you do when you're in an abusive
relationship.

773
00:44:29,670 --> 00:44:34,150
He started bending backward to
make Catherine less upset,

774
00:44:34,790 --> 00:44:38,250
telling her where he was at
every moment of the day, coming

775
00:44:38,250 --> 00:44:41,490
home early or exactly on the dot
so she wouldn't freak out.

776
00:44:43,570 --> 00:44:48,410
One night he was 4 minutes late,
and as soon as he walked into

777
00:44:48,410 --> 00:44:51,850
the kitchen, she hit him with a
cast iron skillet, cracking his.

778
00:44:52,090 --> 00:44:55,410
Oh my God.
He dragged himself to a

779
00:44:55,410 --> 00:44:58,730
neighbor's house to get help.
He woke up the next morning at

780
00:44:58,730 --> 00:45:01,090
the hospital with Catherine
crying next to him.

781
00:45:01,770 --> 00:45:05,710
David told the police that his
wife was alone and she was

782
00:45:05,710 --> 00:45:08,910
pregnant and she said she'd hurt
somebody outside and she was so

783
00:45:08,910 --> 00:45:14,350
scared and he came home later
than usual from drinking and she

784
00:45:14,350 --> 00:45:16,950
must have thought that I was an
intruder.

785
00:45:17,110 --> 00:45:19,950
So you're making excuses now?
Yep, great.

786
00:45:20,030 --> 00:45:23,430
And the NSW Police Department?
We're happy to accept the story

787
00:45:23,430 --> 00:45:26,150
because domestic violence is
sticky and they didn't want to

788
00:45:26,150 --> 00:45:29,590
get involved and David didn't
make a formal complaint.

789
00:45:32,060 --> 00:45:34,420
Eventually he went home.
Catherine showered him with

790
00:45:34,420 --> 00:45:37,420
affection.
Also very common with abusive

791
00:45:37,420 --> 00:45:44,340
relationships.
He went back to work and she was

792
00:45:44,340 --> 00:45:47,900
actually forced to stay home
because she was getting close to

793
00:45:47,900 --> 00:45:51,740
her due date.
But at home, Catherine obsessed

794
00:45:52,180 --> 00:45:54,540
over the fact that David was
going to leave her with the

795
00:45:54,540 --> 00:45:59,260
baby.
A month later, David went to the

796
00:45:59,260 --> 00:46:02,220
bar for a tournament and told
Catherine he'd be home at 11:00

797
00:46:02,220 --> 00:46:04,340
PM.
When he didn't come home, she

798
00:46:04,340 --> 00:46:07,340
called the bar and she told and
he told her he'd be home in an

799
00:46:07,340 --> 00:46:09,700
hour.
She's like, but you said you'd

800
00:46:09,700 --> 00:46:13,180
be home now.
And in front of his friends and

801
00:46:13,300 --> 00:46:17,660
her friends, he very drunkenly
told Catherine, Well, maybe I

802
00:46:17,660 --> 00:46:20,060
won't come home at all since
you're being annoying.

803
00:46:21,540 --> 00:46:25,700
When he got home later, she was
ready with the frying pan, but

804
00:46:25,700 --> 00:46:26,970
he ducked.
Yeah.

805
00:46:27,010 --> 00:46:29,890
She swung again and missed and
broke a light switch.

806
00:46:30,330 --> 00:46:34,210
In the darkness he was able to
escape and get back in his car

807
00:46:34,210 --> 00:46:37,530
and drive away.
God, now.

808
00:46:37,530 --> 00:46:40,250
David felt bad because
everything Catherine was

809
00:46:40,250 --> 00:46:43,090
accusing him of, he was
absolutely doing.

810
00:46:43,250 --> 00:46:45,730
Ohh what the hell?
What?

811
00:46:45,730 --> 00:46:52,090
No, no.
No, no, no, you can't do that.

812
00:46:55,020 --> 00:46:58,300
How dare you?
He had been seeing another woman

813
00:46:58,300 --> 00:47:02,700
for months.
It actually it started after she

814
00:47:02,700 --> 00:47:05,060
began accusing him.
So it was.

815
00:47:05,100 --> 00:47:08,180
It did not start before, but
that doesn't matter because he

816
00:47:08,180 --> 00:47:11,980
still did it.
And right after the frying pan

817
00:47:11,980 --> 00:47:15,060
attack he decides he's going to
make a plan to be with this New

818
00:47:15,060 --> 00:47:18,820
Girl in Queensland.
And that New Girl told him that

819
00:47:18,820 --> 00:47:23,970
she was pregnant too.
David's at this point like I

820
00:47:23,970 --> 00:47:25,930
need to get out of town before
Catherine kills me.

821
00:47:27,570 --> 00:47:33,410
Catherine goes into labor May of
1976, and David is supposed to

822
00:47:33,410 --> 00:47:36,810
pack a bag and meet her at the
hospital while she goes there

823
00:47:36,810 --> 00:47:41,450
with her mom.
Instead he got in his car and

824
00:47:41,450 --> 00:47:46,290
drove out of Aberdeen.
Catherine gave birth to her

825
00:47:46,290 --> 00:47:50,210
first child, Melissa Ann, with
her only her mother and father

826
00:47:50,210 --> 00:47:54,740
and sister by her side.
In fact, her sister Joy just

827
00:47:54,740 --> 00:47:58,460
went out searching for David and
she went back to the house.

828
00:47:58,580 --> 00:48:00,940
Everything in his at the house
was there that belonged to him,

829
00:48:01,180 --> 00:48:04,020
but his car was gone.
His friends were like, oh, maybe

830
00:48:04,020 --> 00:48:06,900
he had an accident.
We should check in the road.

831
00:48:07,220 --> 00:48:10,860
Joy's like, I don't think so.
And Catherine's like, I

832
00:48:10,860 --> 00:48:14,540
definitely don't think so.
So this moment that she's

833
00:48:14,540 --> 00:48:18,980
supposed to be bonding with her
baby, she is just loathing the

834
00:48:18,980 --> 00:48:23,970
existence of David.
No one really understands this

835
00:48:24,090 --> 00:48:26,890
very dark place where Catherine
is right now.

836
00:48:28,090 --> 00:48:31,210
She goes home with the baby and
after several weeks of being

837
00:48:31,210 --> 00:48:35,610
alone with Melissa, she starts
just walking the streets in a

838
00:48:35,610 --> 00:48:38,090
blind rage with a baby and like
a stroller.

839
00:48:38,610 --> 00:48:41,010
And her neighbors call the
police because she is like

840
00:48:41,010 --> 00:48:45,610
walking with the stroller, just
banging it around, like

841
00:48:45,610 --> 00:48:50,570
completely gone.
So the police pick her up, they

842
00:48:50,570 --> 00:48:53,330
dropped the baby at her parents
house, and they take Catherine

843
00:48:53,330 --> 00:48:55,250
to Saint Elmo's Hospital in
Tamworth.

844
00:48:56,930 --> 00:48:59,050
Now, there were some whispers
that she might have borderline

845
00:48:59,050 --> 00:49:02,690
personality disorder, but
ultimately the hospital

846
00:49:02,690 --> 00:49:04,730
diagnoses her with postpartum
depression.

847
00:49:05,490 --> 00:49:07,970
They tried to give her an IQ
test, but since she hadn't read

848
00:49:07,970 --> 00:49:10,730
any books or had to write
anything in the last five years,

849
00:49:11,130 --> 00:49:15,930
she was almost illiterate.
The test gave an IQ in the 80s,

850
00:49:15,930 --> 00:49:18,770
but that didn't line up with the
person they were talking to.

851
00:49:19,200 --> 00:49:21,040
She was very cognizant of
things.

852
00:49:21,760 --> 00:49:25,960
In fact, one of her doctors said
Catherine Knight is a psychopath

853
00:49:26,120 --> 00:49:30,080
and a narcissist and you are
being manipulated into getting

854
00:49:30,080 --> 00:49:34,160
into releasing her early.
She's released seven days later.

855
00:49:36,400 --> 00:49:38,920
I'm gonna say that Doctor was
absolutely right.

856
00:49:39,040 --> 00:49:40,920
He was right.
Oh God.

857
00:49:41,160 --> 00:49:43,840
So she collects the baby from
her parents and it's all calm

858
00:49:43,840 --> 00:49:48,040
for a few days.
And one day, a man, he's a

859
00:49:48,040 --> 00:49:50,160
drifter in town.
He just kind of wanders around

860
00:49:50,160 --> 00:49:53,560
transient.
He's walking train tracks and he

861
00:49:53,560 --> 00:49:58,240
hears a baby crying and he's
like, oh, well, maybe somebody's

862
00:49:58,240 --> 00:50:01,040
out here with their kid.
And as he nears the tracks, he

863
00:50:01,040 --> 00:50:04,400
sees the baby on the train
tracks.

864
00:50:04,680 --> 00:50:08,680
This, like the train, is close
enough that the everything is

865
00:50:08,680 --> 00:50:13,840
vibrating and he runs and scoops
Melissa up to take her to town.

866
00:50:14,920 --> 00:50:20,510
In town, Catherine is in full
blown rage mode, face red.

867
00:50:20,670 --> 00:50:25,030
She's so angry that she can
barely speak and she's just like

868
00:50:25,030 --> 00:50:28,150
growling and grunting.
She walks into the town general

869
00:50:28,150 --> 00:50:31,390
store.
She grabs an axe and just roars

870
00:50:31,390 --> 00:50:34,830
and walks back into the street.
The police were called at this

871
00:50:34,830 --> 00:50:37,070
point and they're just kind of
watching her.

872
00:50:37,190 --> 00:50:40,070
She's pacing up and down the
street, swinging the axe in the

873
00:50:40,070 --> 00:50:42,270
air.
The other people are coming out

874
00:50:42,270 --> 00:50:44,950
of their houses watching her,
which is only making her more

875
00:50:44,950 --> 00:50:50,030
angry, and she goes to swing the
axe at somebody who's watching,

876
00:50:50,390 --> 00:50:53,870
and she hears Melissa crying,
and it startles her enough

877
00:50:54,590 --> 00:50:57,150
because she thought she was sure
she killed this baby.

878
00:50:58,350 --> 00:51:00,790
They were able to subdue her and
they take her back to Saint

879
00:51:00,790 --> 00:51:05,470
Elmo's, where she is forcefully
medicated, and then it's almost

880
00:51:05,470 --> 00:51:08,230
like that crazy beast on the
street is gone.

881
00:51:09,260 --> 00:51:12,660
They released her again, but
this time Ken takes her home and

882
00:51:12,660 --> 00:51:16,300
he goes, we're keeping the baby,
we'll take care of her until you

883
00:51:16,300 --> 00:51:20,020
get better, which is pretty good
because Catherine was filled

884
00:51:20,020 --> 00:51:23,980
with revenge.
And mind you, these situations

885
00:51:23,980 --> 00:51:25,540
I'm explaining, are happening
weeks apart.

886
00:51:26,180 --> 00:51:29,660
So this baby is maybe like two
months old at this point.

887
00:51:30,500 --> 00:51:36,780
So another night she goes next
door and she bangs on her

888
00:51:36,780 --> 00:51:38,960
naval's door.
These are actually the same

889
00:51:38,960 --> 00:51:42,160
neighbors who helped David the
Macbeths.

890
00:51:42,800 --> 00:51:44,840
And she's like, my baby's sick,
I need help.

891
00:51:45,160 --> 00:51:48,320
And 16 year old Maggie Mythbeth
opens the door and agrees to

892
00:51:48,400 --> 00:51:49,520
help her.
She's like, I'll drive you to

893
00:51:49,520 --> 00:51:50,920
your baby, but I gotta bring my
little brother.

894
00:51:52,680 --> 00:51:55,320
As soon as they get in the car,
Catherine drops the sweet act

895
00:51:55,360 --> 00:51:57,320
and she's just like, we have to
drive to Queensland.

896
00:51:59,040 --> 00:52:00,600
I have to kill David and his
whore.

897
00:52:02,200 --> 00:52:04,800
Now for the listeners not up on
Australian geography.

898
00:52:05,310 --> 00:52:07,630
Aberdeen is in the southeastern
part of the country.

899
00:52:07,710 --> 00:52:10,070
I guess it's about 200 miles
away from Sydney, Australia,

900
00:52:10,070 --> 00:52:11,790
which is what most of us around
the world know.

901
00:52:13,190 --> 00:52:19,310
Queensland is located a nice 17
hour drive north northwest about

902
00:52:19,310 --> 00:52:22,950
1500 kilometers away, which is
over 1000 miles for those of us

903
00:52:23,710 --> 00:52:27,310
in the godless US who keep using
the horrible system of.

904
00:52:28,510 --> 00:52:31,710
I'd be like, hey, you got gas
money then Sure, 17 hour drive.

905
00:52:32,710 --> 00:52:34,890
Wait, is that?
Two and from or is it that's

906
00:52:34,890 --> 00:52:36,370
two?
Oh, hell no.

907
00:52:36,770 --> 00:52:42,170
OK, never mind.
Well, so Maggie's like I can't

908
00:52:42,170 --> 00:52:46,170
drive to Queensland like my my
parents, and Catherine actually

909
00:52:46,170 --> 00:52:48,370
stabs her.
It's a very shallow stab, but

910
00:52:48,370 --> 00:52:52,450
it's enough to scare the girl.
They end up stopping at a gas

911
00:52:52,450 --> 00:52:58,610
station to fill up, and as soon
as Maggie gets out of the car,

912
00:52:58,810 --> 00:53:02,810
she runs into the gas station.
She tells the store clerk.

913
00:53:03,210 --> 00:53:04,970
Catherine Knight is going to
kill me and my brother.

914
00:53:05,570 --> 00:53:08,570
He calls the police and then
he's like, you can't go back out

915
00:53:08,570 --> 00:53:13,690
there, she's going to hurt you.
But Catherine is threatening to

916
00:53:13,690 --> 00:53:16,410
kill the little boy.
He had tried to run too, and he

917
00:53:16,410 --> 00:53:17,490
got.
Scooped.

918
00:53:20,090 --> 00:53:25,050
So the police arrived and they
try and talk her down and that

919
00:53:25,090 --> 00:53:28,130
ended with the kids and other
civilians safe.

920
00:53:28,130 --> 00:53:32,330
But one of the cops arms was
slashed from wrist to elbow and

921
00:53:32,330 --> 00:53:36,290
he also got stabbed in the ribs
while they were forcing her into

922
00:53:36,290 --> 00:53:40,730
the back of the cop car and she
was just cackling.

923
00:53:43,330 --> 00:53:46,050
This time the staff at the
hospital realized that David

924
00:53:46,050 --> 00:53:49,810
Kellett is in danger.
He is the main discussion of

925
00:53:49,850 --> 00:53:51,810
every therapy appointment she
has.

926
00:53:52,090 --> 00:53:56,050
She doesn't care that she
permanently traumatized a 16

927
00:53:56,050 --> 00:53:57,820
year old girl.
It was.

928
00:53:57,980 --> 00:54:00,420
I'm going to go to Queensland
and torture David's mother until

929
00:54:00,420 --> 00:54:01,900
he tells, until she tells me
where he is.

930
00:54:01,900 --> 00:54:04,220
Then I'm going to go kill David
and his girlfriend and anyone

931
00:54:04,220 --> 00:54:05,980
who sees me do it.
Then I'm going to come back to

932
00:54:05,980 --> 00:54:09,180
Aberdeen and kill anyone who
helped David leave me, starting

933
00:54:09,180 --> 00:54:10,900
with the mechanic who fixed his
car.

934
00:54:10,940 --> 00:54:15,860
Oh my God.
So the police decide to go to

935
00:54:15,860 --> 00:54:20,100
Queensland and tell David.
Just want to let you know your

936
00:54:20,100 --> 00:54:23,260
wife is committed to a hospital
and she wants to kill you.

937
00:54:24,020 --> 00:54:28,030
I'd say leave the country.
I think they thought that like,

938
00:54:28,030 --> 00:54:32,950
this would just prep David, but
in fact it made him feel guilty.

939
00:54:33,390 --> 00:54:35,510
He was like, look at what I did
to her.

940
00:54:36,190 --> 00:54:39,470
This is all my fault.
So he leaves his girlfriend,

941
00:54:39,590 --> 00:54:43,150
who's about to have a baby in
Queensland, to go back to his

942
00:54:43,150 --> 00:54:44,070
wife I.
Don't like David?

943
00:54:44,990 --> 00:54:47,950
He goes to the hospital, request
that she's returned to his care.

944
00:54:48,230 --> 00:54:49,550
He'll make sure she takes her
meds.

945
00:54:50,350 --> 00:54:54,630
He goes, they pick up Melissa.
In fact, when they opened the

946
00:54:54,630 --> 00:54:57,190
door, he was worried that Ken
was gonna be mad at him, but it

947
00:54:57,190 --> 00:55:00,990
was actually Barbara who opened
the door and immediately attacks

948
00:55:00,990 --> 00:55:02,270
him.
Like this is your fault.

949
00:55:02,270 --> 00:55:05,630
Screaming at him, hitting him
and Catherine steps in and like

950
00:55:05,910 --> 00:55:10,820
knocks her mom down, protecting
her husband.

951
00:55:10,900 --> 00:55:12,940
Yeah, I got this, Mom.
I'll take care of him later.

952
00:55:12,940 --> 00:55:14,980
Don't worry about that.
Well, they take their daughter

953
00:55:14,980 --> 00:55:17,980
home, but after a couple days
it's almost unbearable for both

954
00:55:17,980 --> 00:55:20,860
of them, the amount of gossip
and people watching them in

955
00:55:20,860 --> 00:55:22,780
town.
So they moved to Woodbridge,

956
00:55:22,780 --> 00:55:26,020
which is a suburb of Brisbane.
It was a fresh start.

957
00:55:26,020 --> 00:55:28,220
Neither of them had any family
there, no one whispered.

958
00:55:28,500 --> 00:55:31,180
David's mom comes from
Queensland to live with them, to

959
00:55:31,180 --> 00:55:34,140
take care of Melissa during the
day while both Catherine and

960
00:55:34,140 --> 00:55:36,540
David go to work.
Catherine takes her medication,

961
00:55:36,540 --> 00:55:40,550
which does help.
She's a stellar employee gifted

962
00:55:40,550 --> 00:55:44,150
with a knife.
She would still get people back,

963
00:55:44,150 --> 00:55:46,030
like in high school, but it
wasn't like before.

964
00:55:46,830 --> 00:55:51,630
She was free to be not perfect
this time, and they had all this

965
00:55:51,630 --> 00:55:53,510
excess money because both of
them were working.

966
00:55:54,430 --> 00:55:57,270
But the only time that Catherine
was really happy was at the meat

967
00:55:57,270 --> 00:56:01,030
processing plant and on the very
quiet drive back home.

968
00:56:02,150 --> 00:56:04,800
This went on for years,
Catherine going through the

969
00:56:04,800 --> 00:56:08,160
motions, her medication, kind of
cutting off that passion that

970
00:56:08,160 --> 00:56:10,280
David.
She and David had at the

971
00:56:10,280 --> 00:56:12,760
beginning.
They had a second child, Natasha

972
00:56:12,760 --> 00:56:15,720
Marie, on March 6th, 1980.
David was there.

973
00:56:15,720 --> 00:56:19,040
He held her hand through labor.
She did not have the same

974
00:56:19,160 --> 00:56:22,600
response.
In fact, what happened was that

975
00:56:22,600 --> 00:56:27,440
she was bored and she resented
David and it started to show.

976
00:56:28,680 --> 00:56:32,840
Everything sort of ended the day
after Natasha's 4th birthday,

977
00:56:34,020 --> 00:56:37,460
March 7th, 1984.
She packs up everything.

978
00:56:37,620 --> 00:56:41,420
No words, takes the kids, moves
back to Aberdeen.

979
00:56:43,580 --> 00:56:46,380
It was it was like it was almost
like she didn't care.

980
00:56:47,300 --> 00:56:49,740
David still loved her, but he
was kind of relieved.

981
00:56:50,580 --> 00:56:53,980
She filed for divorce and she
took the kids to her parents

982
00:56:53,980 --> 00:56:57,980
house.
Catherine got a small house and

983
00:56:58,540 --> 00:57:01,180
Muswellbrook and went back to
work at the slaughterhouse.

984
00:57:01,300 --> 00:57:04,370
It had been eight years and she
acted like absolutely nothing

985
00:57:04,370 --> 00:57:09,610
had happened.
In 1986, though, she was lifting

986
00:57:09,610 --> 00:57:12,690
a hog and she hurt her back.
They rushed her to the hospital

987
00:57:12,690 --> 00:57:14,530
but this was a career ending
injury.

988
00:57:15,850 --> 00:57:18,170
She ended up having to file for
disability workplace

989
00:57:18,170 --> 00:57:20,490
compensation.
She gets an apartment from the

990
00:57:20,490 --> 00:57:22,730
government through the housing
Commission just outside of

991
00:57:22,730 --> 00:57:25,330
Aberdeen.
She's 31 years old and has no

992
00:57:25,330 --> 00:57:29,230
idea what to do with her life.
Melissa is 10, and while

993
00:57:29,230 --> 00:57:31,870
Catherine did warn Melissa about
boys, she did not make the same

994
00:57:31,870 --> 00:57:35,510
mistake that Barbara did.
But Catherine was lonely, so she

995
00:57:35,510 --> 00:57:37,790
started leaving the children at
home at night and going to hang

996
00:57:37,790 --> 00:57:42,750
out with men where she meets a
local minor named David

997
00:57:42,750 --> 00:57:45,750
Saunders.
He wasn't from Aberdeen, so he

998
00:57:45,750 --> 00:57:47,750
gave her a chance.
Because what was happening was

999
00:57:48,030 --> 00:57:50,870
even if she met a new guy in
Aberdeen who worked at the

1000
00:57:50,870 --> 00:57:54,830
slaughterhouse within a day,
other people would be like She's

1001
00:57:54,830 --> 00:57:57,970
crazy.
You should leave her alone so

1002
00:57:57,970 --> 00:58:01,970
David didn't wasn't in the same
circle they moved in.

1003
00:58:01,970 --> 00:58:04,490
After a couple months, the moods
were up and down.

1004
00:58:04,490 --> 00:58:06,970
She got into little fights with
him and he'd go back to his

1005
00:58:06,970 --> 00:58:08,810
apartment and sconce and sleep
there.

1006
00:58:09,610 --> 00:58:11,570
On their anniversary.
He showed up with flowers

1007
00:58:11,570 --> 00:58:14,930
expecting a nice night.
Catherine was in a mood, pacing

1008
00:58:14,930 --> 00:58:17,010
the kitchen.
She walked outside, picked up

1009
00:58:17,010 --> 00:58:20,050
the family dog that David had
bought for the children and slit

1010
00:58:20,050 --> 00:58:22,610
the dog's throat and said if I
ever catch you running around on

1011
00:58:22,610 --> 00:58:24,530
me, this is what I'm going to do
to you.

1012
00:58:26,490 --> 00:58:29,370
David's like I'm, I'm happy.
I would never.

1013
00:58:30,010 --> 00:58:34,770
But she picks up a pan and she
swings it at him and he put his

1014
00:58:34,770 --> 00:58:37,530
arm up and she broke his arm,
hitting him.

1015
00:58:37,530 --> 00:58:40,850
With a pan, yes.
And then as he's like on the

1016
00:58:40,850 --> 00:58:43,130
ground, she proceeds to beat him
with the pan until he is

1017
00:58:43,130 --> 00:58:47,330
unconscious.
For a week he didn't respond to

1018
00:58:47,330 --> 00:58:50,170
her at all.
He stayed at home when the

1019
00:58:50,170 --> 00:58:52,410
bruises went away.
He started doing some works,

1020
00:58:52,650 --> 00:58:55,650
some shifts at work.
His coworkers actually mocked

1021
00:58:55,650 --> 00:58:58,850
him for being jumpy, and the old
men who worked there were like,

1022
00:58:58,930 --> 00:59:03,690
Nah, Nah, he's dating Catherine
Night.

1023
00:59:04,450 --> 00:59:07,130
He has a reason to be jumpy.
Yup, They they exactly.

1024
00:59:07,130 --> 00:59:11,970
The older men knew.
So what happened is that

1025
00:59:11,970 --> 00:59:15,530
Catherine camped out of his
apartment one day and as he's

1026
00:59:15,530 --> 00:59:17,690
walking home, he expects
violence when he sees her.

1027
00:59:17,970 --> 00:59:20,530
But instead what he gets is
Catherine crying and begging for

1028
00:59:20,530 --> 00:59:23,490
forgiveness.
He takes her back.

1029
00:59:25,380 --> 00:59:28,260
Things are calm for a couple
months, and then it goes dark

1030
00:59:28,260 --> 00:59:31,500
again when David asks her why
she's so upset.

1031
00:59:32,420 --> 00:59:36,780
She's pregnant and she begins
obsessing over David leaving

1032
00:59:36,780 --> 00:59:39,300
her.
So David tries to show her that

1033
00:59:39,300 --> 00:59:41,580
he's serious about her by
putting a down payment on the

1034
00:59:41,580 --> 00:59:44,260
House.
June 1988.

1035
00:59:44,260 --> 00:59:48,060
She has her third daughter,
Sarah Saunders now.

1036
00:59:48,060 --> 00:59:50,260
David was like, after she gives
birth, it's going to be great.

1037
00:59:51,620 --> 00:59:54,170
Nope.
Catherine was back in the

1038
00:59:54,170 --> 00:59:59,890
postpartum state and at the
beginning of 1989 they are

1039
00:59:59,890 --> 01:00:03,010
barely speaking.
Catherine got her workers

1040
01:00:03,010 --> 01:00:04,770
compensation.
She paid off the rest of the

1041
01:00:04,770 --> 01:00:06,810
house.
They started fighting.

1042
01:00:07,410 --> 01:00:10,410
The first big fight was because
he came home and the baby was

1043
01:00:10,410 --> 01:00:14,130
still in a dirty diaper.
Another time he came home and

1044
01:00:14,130 --> 01:00:17,050
all his work clothes were dirty
and he was like, what have you

1045
01:00:17,050 --> 01:00:20,290
been doing all day?
She responded by going and get a

1046
01:00:20,290 --> 01:00:23,760
knife.
A pair of scissors and cutting

1047
01:00:23,760 --> 01:00:26,720
his shirts in front of him.
That's not an answer.

1048
01:00:27,240 --> 01:00:30,320
Then she went to cut his work
pants and he was like no, no,

1049
01:00:30,320 --> 01:00:33,720
no, those are my only other
pants And he goes to grab them

1050
01:00:33,760 --> 01:00:37,880
and she stabs him in the stomach
with the scissors and twists

1051
01:00:37,880 --> 01:00:39,480
them as she pulls.
Them.

1052
01:00:40,960 --> 01:00:45,200
Then she went to go get the iron
and David hopped it in his car

1053
01:00:45,200 --> 01:00:49,280
and drove away.
He didn't speak to her for

1054
01:00:50,690 --> 01:00:53,090
several days.
He was like, this is the second

1055
01:00:53,090 --> 01:00:54,450
time this woman's tried to kill
me.

1056
01:00:55,130 --> 01:00:56,490
I'm not going to give her a
third chance.

1057
01:00:56,890 --> 01:01:00,330
He only went back to Aberdeen to
try and see his daughter and

1058
01:01:00,330 --> 01:01:02,450
that's when he learned that
Catherine had gone to the police

1059
01:01:02,490 --> 01:01:05,410
and lied to them and got an
apprehended violence order,

1060
01:01:05,730 --> 01:01:08,730
which is specifically to keep
someone violent away from you.

1061
01:01:09,450 --> 01:01:11,970
What?
Excuse me, this order said that

1062
01:01:11,970 --> 01:01:14,850
he could not contact or see
Catherine or the kids.

1063
01:01:15,290 --> 01:01:16,890
What does she say that he did to
her?

1064
01:01:17,610 --> 01:01:19,930
I don't know fam.
Because.

1065
01:01:20,420 --> 01:01:22,900
Oh my God.
Like I I would have just went to

1066
01:01:22,900 --> 01:01:25,060
the police station.
You see this stab wound in my

1067
01:01:25,060 --> 01:01:27,820
stomach?
She stabbed me.

1068
01:01:27,820 --> 01:01:31,940
I didn't do shit for her.
Well next guy she dated is his

1069
01:01:31,940 --> 01:01:34,900
name was John Chillingworth and
she actually met him the day

1070
01:01:34,900 --> 01:01:36,740
that they came.
He came back to Aberdeen.

1071
01:01:37,060 --> 01:01:42,700
They had worked together when
she was younger, but he he was

1072
01:01:42,700 --> 01:01:45,620
10 years older than her and he
was honestly kind of creeped out

1073
01:01:45,740 --> 01:01:47,780
when she was coming onto him as
a 17 year old.

1074
01:01:49,420 --> 01:01:54,350
Now they were roughly 44 and 34
and he was like, yeah, don't

1075
01:01:54,350 --> 01:01:57,270
mind now.
John was not like the Davids.

1076
01:01:58,110 --> 01:02:02,470
The first time Catherine swung
on him, he ducked and he smacked

1077
01:02:02,470 --> 01:02:05,830
the hell out of her.
In fact, she threw him out of

1078
01:02:05,830 --> 01:02:09,630
her house, mainly because she
was kind of startled that he

1079
01:02:09,630 --> 01:02:12,950
just hadn't taken the abuse.
She begged him to come home the

1080
01:02:12,950 --> 01:02:14,630
next.
Day.

1081
01:02:15,390 --> 01:02:18,430
And bless her heart, Melissa.
Like, what a lovely child.

1082
01:02:18,840 --> 01:02:22,920
All she heard from her mom was
that John hit her.

1083
01:02:23,240 --> 01:02:27,080
So when John comes back,
Melissa's like, you hit my mom

1084
01:02:27,080 --> 01:02:29,680
and like gets mad at him and he
smacks her too.

1085
01:02:29,680 --> 01:02:30,880
And he's like, sit down little
girl.

1086
01:02:30,880 --> 01:02:34,480
Oh my God.
Catherine gets pregnant.

1087
01:02:34,800 --> 01:02:37,000
And John was like, maybe we
should get married.

1088
01:02:37,280 --> 01:02:39,520
But he realizes that Catherine
doesn't care about being

1089
01:02:39,520 --> 01:02:41,520
married, so he's like, bet this
is awesome.

1090
01:02:43,400 --> 01:02:47,240
Throughout this pregnancy, all
the same accusations, just like

1091
01:02:47,240 --> 01:02:50,510
the first David's.
And just like the first David,

1092
01:02:51,350 --> 01:02:53,030
John started sleeping with
somebody else.

1093
01:02:53,110 --> 01:02:55,070
You.
Dumb ass.

1094
01:02:55,350 --> 01:02:57,790
Her only son, Eric, was born in
1990.

1095
01:02:58,470 --> 01:03:02,670
His father was present and right
after he was born, Catherine was

1096
01:03:03,070 --> 01:03:07,590
a domestic queen again.
John felt bad about cheating

1097
01:03:07,790 --> 01:03:09,910
because she was just being so
awesome.

1098
01:03:10,430 --> 01:03:15,350
So he tells her the truth.
She walks into the bathroom,

1099
01:03:15,900 --> 01:03:19,020
punches the glass container
holding his like bridge,

1100
01:03:19,220 --> 01:03:22,500
breaking it.
Then she walks out and punches

1101
01:03:22,500 --> 01:03:25,060
him square in the jaw, breaking
some of his real teeth too.

1102
01:03:26,660 --> 01:03:30,140
That night he went to his
company sponsored apartment and

1103
01:03:30,140 --> 01:03:32,100
then came back to the house and
picked up his stuff.

1104
01:03:32,900 --> 01:03:34,500
He found Catherine in their
bedroom.

1105
01:03:34,900 --> 01:03:38,540
She was overducing on all of the
sleeping pills in the house.

1106
01:03:39,660 --> 01:03:42,020
He drove her to the hospital, of
course.

1107
01:03:42,020 --> 01:03:45,410
Guilty for driving her to
suicide, the captor for

1108
01:03:45,410 --> 01:03:48,170
observation.
For a week, things went back to

1109
01:03:48,170 --> 01:03:51,410
normal.
But this time Catherine began

1110
01:03:51,410 --> 01:03:56,290
cheating and she planned it.
So one night when when Jack came

1111
01:03:56,290 --> 01:04:00,250
home from work, Sean came home
from work, he would see it.

1112
01:04:00,490 --> 01:04:03,130
He walked into the house, found
her having sex with another man

1113
01:04:03,130 --> 01:04:05,130
in their bed.
He's just like, you know what?

1114
01:04:05,130 --> 01:04:08,010
I'm done with this.
He leaves the house, never comes

1115
01:04:08,010 --> 01:04:09,250
back.
He actually moved away from

1116
01:04:09,250 --> 01:04:11,990
Aberdeen.
Quit drinking, ended up becoming

1117
01:04:11,990 --> 01:04:15,070
a drug and alcohol counselor and
spent the rest of his life

1118
01:04:15,070 --> 01:04:18,510
helping other addicts.
John Chillingham is the only man

1119
01:04:18,510 --> 01:04:22,030
to escape Catherine Knight with
no permanent injuries and he's

1120
01:04:22,030 --> 01:04:27,070
the last one to escape alive.
The man Catherine was cheating

1121
01:04:27,070 --> 01:04:30,230
with was John Price and the
affair had been going on for a

1122
01:04:30,230 --> 01:04:35,510
year before Catherine decided to
use him to hurt her ex as their

1123
01:04:35,510 --> 01:04:36,990
affair turn into a real
relationship.

1124
01:04:36,990 --> 01:04:38,150
It was pretty good in the
beginning.

1125
01:04:38,430 --> 01:04:41,860
Pricey, as he was called in
town, brought out a certain

1126
01:04:41,860 --> 01:04:44,420
gentleness in Catherine.
He knew about her past.

1127
01:04:44,420 --> 01:04:46,980
He didn't really care.
She met his two kids.

1128
01:04:46,980 --> 01:04:49,420
They liked her.
Her own children really liked

1129
01:04:49,420 --> 01:04:51,100
him.
They were like, this is probably

1130
01:04:51,100 --> 01:04:56,060
the nicest, gentlest person
you've ever dated, just like

1131
01:04:56,060 --> 01:04:58,060
normal.
After a little bit, she starts

1132
01:04:58,060 --> 01:05:01,860
accusing him of cheating.
She yells, She hits him, but he

1133
01:05:01,860 --> 01:05:06,260
is completely smitten with her
and anybody who sees can tell

1134
01:05:06,780 --> 01:05:10,650
people in town actually try and
warn him, but he decides to take

1135
01:05:10,650 --> 01:05:13,810
Catherine in her word and he's
just like, listen, you were just

1136
01:05:13,810 --> 01:05:16,890
protecting yourself from evil
man, and those men before you

1137
01:05:16,890 --> 01:05:19,770
were weak before me were weak.
They couldn't handle a strong

1138
01:05:19,770 --> 01:05:24,210
woman.
In 1993, the infidelity argument

1139
01:05:24,210 --> 01:05:28,690
stops, and now she's mad because
Price is not marrying her.

1140
01:05:29,450 --> 01:05:33,730
Now John Price had been married
before and he felt like his

1141
01:05:33,730 --> 01:05:37,090
relationship went sour after
they got married.

1142
01:05:37,520 --> 01:05:40,720
And he'd asked Catherine about
her first marriage and it seemed

1143
01:05:40,720 --> 01:05:43,880
like it was the same thing.
They've been happy and then they

1144
01:05:43,880 --> 01:05:47,240
got married and it went to hell.
So he's like, why ruin a good

1145
01:05:47,240 --> 01:05:53,440
thing with a wedding in 1995?
He tries to make her happy and

1146
01:05:53,440 --> 01:05:57,040
he says move in with me.
He's a supervisor at the mine.

1147
01:05:57,040 --> 01:05:59,680
The company gave him a really
nice 3 bedroom house.

1148
01:06:00,320 --> 01:06:06,210
She decides to keep her house
and move in with him, which was

1149
01:06:06,210 --> 01:06:08,570
great because he didn't exactly
like the fact that she had

1150
01:06:08,610 --> 01:06:10,810
animal skins and bones all over
her house.

1151
01:06:10,890 --> 01:06:14,210
Anyway, things are great for a
year.

1152
01:06:14,250 --> 01:06:17,650
They live like a married couple.
She starts asking about getting

1153
01:06:17,650 --> 01:06:20,930
married again.
These fights happen daily until

1154
01:06:20,930 --> 01:06:29,090
about 1998, and then as a
retaliation for fighting with

1155
01:06:29,090 --> 01:06:32,250
him, one night she takes a video
camera that he bought for her

1156
01:06:32,250 --> 01:06:37,420
for Christmas and she videotapes
things that John had taken from

1157
01:06:37,420 --> 01:06:41,220
the trash at the mine, mainly
old expired Med kits.

1158
01:06:41,460 --> 01:06:46,020
And she mails that tape to his
boss and he gets fired after 17

1159
01:06:46,020 --> 01:06:49,380
years.
Even after he explained that all

1160
01:06:49,380 --> 01:06:52,380
of those supplies were expired,
they wanted nothing to do with

1161
01:06:52,380 --> 01:06:58,020
him or Catherine.
He drove home, gathered all of

1162
01:06:58,020 --> 01:07:01,060
Catherine's stuff, and chucked
it out the front door.

1163
01:07:01,500 --> 01:07:04,260
When she got home, she
discovered all of the locks of

1164
01:07:04,260 --> 01:07:06,900
the house were changed.
They stood on the porch

1165
01:07:06,900 --> 01:07:08,900
screaming at each other for
about two hours until the

1166
01:07:08,900 --> 01:07:10,340
neighbors threatened to call the
police.

1167
01:07:10,860 --> 01:07:13,220
She picked up her stuff, and she
went back to McQueen St.

1168
01:07:14,660 --> 01:07:19,740
John was free from Catherine,
but he came up against some

1169
01:07:19,740 --> 01:07:21,740
pushback.
While he wasn't, like,

1170
01:07:21,740 --> 01:07:26,100
officially blacklisted from the
mining companies, other men knew

1171
01:07:26,100 --> 01:07:30,300
about Catherine and they were
kind of wary of dealing with any

1172
01:07:30,300 --> 01:07:35,320
man who was dealing with her.
She started hanging out with the

1173
01:07:35,320 --> 01:07:39,440
bars again looking for him, and
their paths crossed.

1174
01:07:39,920 --> 01:07:42,600
He tried to avoid her, but
eventually one night he decides

1175
01:07:42,600 --> 01:07:45,080
to just say hi.
They go back to sleeping

1176
01:07:45,080 --> 01:07:47,360
together.
The news of the two of them back

1177
01:07:47,360 --> 01:07:51,400
together goes through town in a
second, and the next day his

1178
01:07:51,400 --> 01:07:56,280
friends show up at his new job
to have an intervention.

1179
01:07:56,910 --> 01:07:58,550
They're just like, listen, we
don't want to watch you hurt

1180
01:07:58,550 --> 01:08:01,950
yourself with this woman.
Either she goes or we go.

1181
01:08:02,310 --> 01:08:04,030
John's like, listen, it's just
sex.

1182
01:08:04,310 --> 01:08:06,230
I'm not going to move back in
with her or anything.

1183
01:08:07,390 --> 01:08:11,230
People in Aberdeen actually
contacted David Kellett and

1184
01:08:11,230 --> 01:08:12,590
we're like, you need to come
talk to this guy.

1185
01:08:13,910 --> 01:08:18,950
So David Kellett meets him at a
bar and shows John all of the

1186
01:08:18,950 --> 01:08:23,640
scars that he got from the years
he lived with Catherine.

1187
01:08:24,000 --> 01:08:27,680
He even shares the warning that
Barbara gave to him before their

1188
01:08:27,680 --> 01:08:30,000
wedding.
If you cross her, she'll kill

1189
01:08:30,000 --> 01:08:32,120
you, he says.
Do you understand?

1190
01:08:32,279 --> 01:08:34,680
This isn't a joke?
She will kill you.

1191
01:08:35,920 --> 01:08:38,359
John sat there, kind of not
taking it seriously.

1192
01:08:39,319 --> 01:08:42,560
Dude, you got all these people
coming to you saying stay away,

1193
01:08:42,680 --> 01:08:48,279
stay away, you're gonna die.
Before John even returned home

1194
01:08:48,439 --> 01:08:50,760
that night, David had already
left Aberdeen.

1195
01:08:51,240 --> 01:08:56,399
Just being there was triggering
for him, but he had done

1196
01:08:56,680 --> 01:08:58,600
everything he could to save John
Price.

1197
01:09:00,160 --> 01:09:02,880
John started allowing Catherine
to come by his house for date

1198
01:09:02,880 --> 01:09:05,439
nights.
She would cook for him, they'd

1199
01:09:05,439 --> 01:09:07,560
eat, have sex.
She'd go home.

1200
01:09:08,399 --> 01:09:10,840
She started pushing for more in
the relationship.

1201
01:09:12,279 --> 01:09:14,479
It would escalate to Catherine
screaming at him.

1202
01:09:14,840 --> 01:09:17,200
He'd shove her out the front
door of the house, lock the

1203
01:09:17,200 --> 01:09:21,399
door.
By 2000, the harassment is just

1204
01:09:21,399 --> 01:09:24,160
incessant.
They get in a fight and he

1205
01:09:24,160 --> 01:09:26,200
remind her why they're not
together.

1206
01:09:26,520 --> 01:09:28,840
And she, of course, is like,
well, listen, that's not who I'm

1207
01:09:28,840 --> 01:09:30,840
not that person anymore.
I won't do that again.

1208
01:09:31,080 --> 01:09:33,640
And he's like, of course you
won't do it again because you

1209
01:09:33,640 --> 01:09:36,720
can't ruin my 17 year career
again because I don't have it

1210
01:09:36,720 --> 01:09:39,279
anymore.
I'm never letting you live here

1211
01:09:39,279 --> 01:09:42,840
again.
This fight happened weekly.

1212
01:09:43,960 --> 01:09:45,680
She'd scream, calm down.
They'd make up.

1213
01:09:46,920 --> 01:09:50,310
One night they were together and
he told her he would never let

1214
01:09:50,310 --> 01:09:55,150
her hold any power over his life
ever again because her temper

1215
01:09:55,150 --> 01:09:59,390
caused her to wreck things and
Catherine was offended.

1216
01:10:01,270 --> 01:10:04,630
In fact, she told him, You've
never really seen me angry.

1217
01:10:06,150 --> 01:10:09,430
She got up and started hitting
him, stabbed him in the chest

1218
01:10:09,430 --> 01:10:12,270
with a knife.
He grabbed her, threw her out of

1219
01:10:12,270 --> 01:10:16,420
the house onto the street.
The blade was in one of his

1220
01:10:16,420 --> 01:10:19,220
ribs, and it was in such a
location that if it'd been about

1221
01:10:19,220 --> 01:10:22,860
1/2 an inch, if she'd been 1/2
inch off of her mark, she would

1222
01:10:22,860 --> 01:10:26,260
have stabbed him in the heart in
fact.

1223
01:10:26,420 --> 01:10:28,620
And then as he was standing
there, he was like, oh crap, the

1224
01:10:28,620 --> 01:10:31,740
back door is open.
He rushes to lock the back door.

1225
01:10:32,660 --> 01:10:35,100
She's there banging on the on
all of the doors.

1226
01:10:35,100 --> 01:10:37,940
He locks all the first floor
windows and eventually she

1227
01:10:37,940 --> 01:10:43,820
leaves.
That is February 28th, 2000.

1228
01:10:44,140 --> 01:10:45,420
I can't.
I just can't.

1229
01:10:46,120 --> 01:10:50,360
February 29th, he stops at the
Scone Magistrate Court on his

1230
01:10:50,360 --> 01:10:52,840
way to work and gets a
restraining order against

1231
01:10:52,840 --> 01:10:56,240
Catherine.
He tells his coworkers that day

1232
01:10:56,240 --> 01:10:59,720
at work, if I don't come to
work, you need to come look for

1233
01:10:59,720 --> 01:11:02,240
me because I think that means
that Catherine will have killed

1234
01:11:02,240 --> 01:11:06,000
me.
His coworkers beg him not to go

1235
01:11:06,000 --> 01:11:08,440
home.
They're like they they at first

1236
01:11:08,440 --> 01:11:10,960
they think that he's just like
being a tough guy.

1237
01:11:11,520 --> 01:11:16,660
But in fact, he says, I'm
worried that if I show, if I'm

1238
01:11:16,660 --> 01:11:20,100
not there and the children are
there, she's going to kill the

1239
01:11:20,100 --> 01:11:23,340
kids.
So I have to go back just to

1240
01:11:23,340 --> 01:11:25,900
make sure they're OK.
He goes to the house after the

1241
01:11:25,900 --> 01:11:29,100
kids get home from school, he
has them pack up, go stay the

1242
01:11:29,100 --> 01:11:31,260
night with their friends and
have a sleepover.

1243
01:11:32,020 --> 01:11:34,380
He actually doesn't even.
He spends most of the night,

1244
01:11:34,540 --> 01:11:38,580
February 29th, at his friend's
house, like across the street,

1245
01:11:39,500 --> 01:11:42,260
just kind of watching, making
sure she wasn't there.

1246
01:11:43,400 --> 01:11:45,880
At 11:00 PM.
He's confident she's not going

1247
01:11:45,880 --> 01:11:47,720
to come.
He goes back to his house.

1248
01:11:49,440 --> 01:11:51,680
Catherine, on the other hand,
spent her day differently.

1249
01:11:52,560 --> 01:11:55,920
First thing she does is she goes
to his house.

1250
01:11:56,400 --> 01:12:05,120
While he's not there, she films
the kids almost as if she's

1251
01:12:05,120 --> 01:12:10,000
making like a will, and she's
talking on the camera about,

1252
01:12:10,000 --> 01:12:12,560
like things she's going to give
to the children once she's gone.

1253
01:12:14,600 --> 01:12:18,240
Then she went to town, brought
new lingerie and waited.

1254
01:12:20,120 --> 01:12:25,160
And after she saw him go into
his house, she broke in, watched

1255
01:12:25,160 --> 01:12:30,480
a little TV, took a shower, and
then sexually assaulted him.

1256
01:12:30,760 --> 01:12:33,440
She pretty much, like, mounted
him while he was sleeping.

1257
01:12:34,120 --> 01:12:39,980
He didn't even realize what was
going on, like he was asleep and

1258
01:12:39,980 --> 01:12:42,740
she'd actually hung her bag of
knives above his bed.

1259
01:12:45,340 --> 01:12:48,940
When they finished, he was loud,
he was awake, and he was like,

1260
01:12:48,980 --> 01:12:52,100
Oh no.
And he actually, like, pushes

1261
01:12:52,100 --> 01:12:54,700
her off of him, which makes her
angry.

1262
01:12:54,780 --> 01:12:57,660
Yeah.
She grabbed one of the knives

1263
01:12:57,660 --> 01:13:00,460
and stabs him between the ribs,
collapsing one of his lungs.

1264
01:13:01,060 --> 01:13:03,820
He gets up and tries to run
away, but his back is an even

1265
01:13:03,820 --> 01:13:06,700
easier target and she stabs him
two more times from behind.

1266
01:13:07,530 --> 01:13:12,810
He fell down and she sits on his
chest stabbing him over and over

1267
01:13:12,810 --> 01:13:16,290
again.
Somehow I don't know if it was a

1268
01:13:16,290 --> 01:13:18,890
rush of adrenaline.
He throws her off of him and

1269
01:13:18,890 --> 01:13:23,410
manages to get outside onto the
porch before just the adrenaline

1270
01:13:23,410 --> 01:13:25,770
wears off and he kind of
succumbs to his injuries.

1271
01:13:26,370 --> 01:13:31,090
She drags him back inside and
stabs him to death.

1272
01:13:32,690 --> 01:13:35,490
Then she cleans herself off,
drives into town with his car,

1273
01:13:37,000 --> 01:13:40,200
goes to the ATM and empties his
bank account.

1274
01:13:40,920 --> 01:13:45,560
Comes home, skins him, hangs the
skin from a meat hook from the

1275
01:13:45,560 --> 01:13:49,920
top of the door in the lounge,
decapitates him, cooks part of

1276
01:13:49,920 --> 01:13:52,840
his body with baked potatoes,
pumpkin beetroot, zucchini,

1277
01:13:52,840 --> 01:13:54,640
cabbage, yellow squash and
gravy.

1278
01:13:55,040 --> 01:13:58,800
Puts 2 servings on the table and
then puts those and puts the

1279
01:13:58,800 --> 01:14:04,060
names of his children, Rebecca
and John, in like little place

1280
01:14:04,060 --> 01:14:07,780
cards on the table.
A third meal is tossed in the

1281
01:14:07,780 --> 01:14:11,060
backyard.
She put his hot his head in a

1282
01:14:11,060 --> 01:14:15,380
pot with vegetables and then she
took the rest of his skinned

1283
01:14:15,380 --> 01:14:18,620
body and arranged it in his
favorite chair with his arms

1284
01:14:18,620 --> 01:14:20,900
slung over an empty soda bottle
and his legs crossed.

1285
01:14:22,060 --> 01:14:25,420
She leaves a handwritten note
with a piece of his skin on it,

1286
01:14:25,900 --> 01:14:30,620
accusing him of raping one of
her daughters and his own

1287
01:14:30,620 --> 01:14:34,190
children.
Then she takes all of her psych

1288
01:14:34,190 --> 01:14:38,670
meds that were in the Cabot,
climbs into the blood soaked bed

1289
01:14:38,750 --> 01:14:42,870
and just waits to die.
Wow.

1290
01:14:43,270 --> 01:14:46,710
So I gotta say one thing.
While you were mentioning all

1291
01:14:46,710 --> 01:14:49,710
that, the preparation for the
food and stuff, my stomach did

1292
01:14:49,710 --> 01:14:51,150
start growling.
Oh no.

1293
01:14:53,350 --> 01:14:55,310
Not because it was advertising
to me.

1294
01:14:55,310 --> 01:14:59,870
Just because I'm hungry, OK,
some Chinese food.

1295
01:14:59,870 --> 01:15:03,270
I just.
It's just it was just a funny

1296
01:15:03,270 --> 01:15:07,670
moment.
It happened, well, true to their

1297
01:15:07,670 --> 01:15:11,870
word, when he didn't show up for
work, his coworkers were like,

1298
01:15:11,870 --> 01:15:14,870
we need to go check on him.
In fact, they showed up at 6:00

1299
01:15:14,870 --> 01:15:18,990
AM.
Oh oh, they were ready, the

1300
01:15:18,990 --> 01:15:21,350
coworker was greeted with a
bloody hamper on the front door

1301
01:15:21,350 --> 01:15:23,910
and a blood smear on the porch
leading back inside the house.

1302
01:15:24,750 --> 01:15:27,760
They called the police.
Police break in to find a

1303
01:15:27,760 --> 01:15:31,680
comatose Catherine.
The first responders are

1304
01:15:31,680 --> 01:15:34,400
horrified.
They didn't even understand what

1305
01:15:34,400 --> 01:15:37,280
they were looking at the entire
downstairs.

1306
01:15:37,280 --> 01:15:40,200
The stairwell leading down there
is just covered in blood.

1307
01:15:41,880 --> 01:15:45,040
And finally, one of the other
police officers goes, that's a

1308
01:15:45,040 --> 01:15:49,760
nose, that's pubic hair, and
they realize that they are

1309
01:15:49,760 --> 01:15:54,610
looking at John Price's flesh.
Later on, they'll discover that

1310
01:15:54,610 --> 01:15:58,130
she actually stabbed him 37
times in many vital organs.

1311
01:15:59,050 --> 01:16:02,650
Most of the men present that day
quit working as cops after

1312
01:16:02,650 --> 01:16:05,970
viewing the scene.
There were more than one report

1313
01:16:05,970 --> 01:16:12,250
of suicide, and the few who
didn't quit stayed away from

1314
01:16:12,250 --> 01:16:17,410
meat for a little bit.
In fact, the police arrived

1315
01:16:17,410 --> 01:16:21,640
quick enough to discover that
the pot with his head in it was

1316
01:16:21,640 --> 01:16:25,080
still warm, which means that
they got there shortly after she

1317
01:16:25,080 --> 01:16:28,320
finished, which also means she
didn't have time to die.

1318
01:16:28,320 --> 01:16:31,560
Oh no.
They also deduced that the meal

1319
01:16:31,560 --> 01:16:34,960
in the backyard was from her
trying the food and being

1320
01:16:34,960 --> 01:16:38,520
disgusted by it.
And the interesting thing was

1321
01:16:38,520 --> 01:16:42,390
that the skinning had been done
so expertly that after the

1322
01:16:42,390 --> 01:16:46,550
autopsy, the coroner was able to
kind of put him back together.

1323
01:16:46,670 --> 01:16:50,190
Oh no, I don't.
Know how I don't like that it's

1324
01:16:50,310 --> 01:16:53,710
an awful image, but like, at
least he could sort of have an

1325
01:16:53,710 --> 01:16:57,430
open casket.
Yeah, sort of, but not anyway.

1326
01:16:57,670 --> 01:17:01,470
Go ahead, listen, skilled
mortician could probably make it

1327
01:17:01,470 --> 01:17:03,790
work.
Got to cover that neck wound,

1328
01:17:03,790 --> 01:17:05,990
though.
Two days later, Catherine wakes

1329
01:17:05,990 --> 01:17:08,470
up from her coma and the police
are like, we're ready to

1330
01:17:08,470 --> 01:17:10,710
interview you.
But they kind of forgot about

1331
01:17:10,710 --> 01:17:13,400
her mental health issues.
Catherine's like, I don't

1332
01:17:13,400 --> 01:17:18,200
remember anything from the past
couple days, and if this was the

1333
01:17:18,200 --> 01:17:22,440
first time that Catherine had
hurt a man, they might have been

1334
01:17:22,440 --> 01:17:26,840
willing to accept that.
But while the police are kind of

1335
01:17:26,840 --> 01:17:29,440
like, well, we got to wait for
her to be in a better headspace,

1336
01:17:30,760 --> 01:17:33,600
hundreds of people show up at
the police station and they're

1337
01:17:33,600 --> 01:17:36,960
just like, we want to give a
statement about Catherine

1338
01:17:36,960 --> 01:17:40,660
Knight.
Everyone in in Aberdeen is

1339
01:17:40,660 --> 01:17:44,500
terrified of what will happen if
she is ever like let out.

1340
01:17:46,380 --> 01:17:49,420
So the first time she shows up
to court, she tries to plead

1341
01:17:49,420 --> 01:17:53,140
guilty for manslaughter, saying
that she remembers nothing, but

1342
01:17:53,180 --> 01:17:55,220
obviously she did it because
there's evidence.

1343
01:17:56,020 --> 01:17:59,140
The judge is like, this is the
worst crime I've ever seen in my

1344
01:17:59,140 --> 01:18:01,460
entire life.
Absolutely.

1345
01:18:01,460 --> 01:18:04,340
There is no such thing.
You're not even allowed to bleed

1346
01:18:04,340 --> 01:18:07,640
anything right now.
Honestly, unless you are

1347
01:18:07,640 --> 01:18:10,080
pleading to 1st degree murder, I
don't want to hear you.

1348
01:18:10,320 --> 01:18:14,320
I plead guilty to everything.
She was arraigned on March 2nd,

1349
01:18:14,320 --> 01:18:17,000
2001, where she entered A plea
of not guilty.

1350
01:18:17,920 --> 01:18:21,360
Her child was originally planned
for July 23rd, but it got pushed

1351
01:18:21,360 --> 01:18:24,640
back to October 15th, 2001
because her lawyer actually got

1352
01:18:24,640 --> 01:18:27,640
sick during that time, they
decided to have her

1353
01:18:27,640 --> 01:18:31,240
psychologically evaluated.
Not to prove that she was insane

1354
01:18:31,240 --> 01:18:33,720
or anything, but I just wanted
to prove that she was competent

1355
01:18:33,720 --> 01:18:37,190
enough to enter a plea.
And that was when she was

1356
01:18:37,190 --> 01:18:40,990
formally given a borderline
personality diagnosis.

1357
01:18:41,270 --> 01:18:44,950
But in fact, some of her old
psychiatrists came forward and

1358
01:18:44,950 --> 01:18:47,310
were like no, no, no, no, We
disagree.

1359
01:18:47,590 --> 01:18:51,870
Don't do this.
I'll explain why they said that

1360
01:18:51,870 --> 01:18:54,270
in a little bit.
Trying to find a jury for this

1361
01:18:54,270 --> 01:18:57,430
trial was pretty rough.
Almost all of Aberdeen knew

1362
01:18:57,430 --> 01:19:00,870
about the legend of Katherine
Knight and Justice Barry O'Keefe

1363
01:19:00,870 --> 01:19:04,490
gave the jurors the the
opportunity to back out because

1364
01:19:04,490 --> 01:19:07,530
the the pictures of the crime
scene were particularly gruesome

1365
01:19:07,930 --> 01:19:10,330
and about 5 people did remove
themselves.

1366
01:19:10,610 --> 01:19:13,370
But of the pool about 60
potential jurors, they did find

1367
01:19:13,370 --> 01:19:19,050
enough people for the trial.
So the borderline personality

1368
01:19:19,290 --> 01:19:23,730
situation here is that Catherine
pretty much said she frequently

1369
01:19:23,730 --> 01:19:26,650
dissociated and had been this is
what she did on the night the

1370
01:19:26,650 --> 01:19:29,730
crime happened.
Her lawyer used this diagnosis

1371
01:19:30,090 --> 01:19:32,650
to say that she was not culpable
for her actions.

1372
01:19:33,260 --> 01:19:35,860
You know, I have to say this
because a lot of people don't.

1373
01:19:35,860 --> 01:19:39,580
This is a I wouldn't say it's a
rare diagnosis, but it's not as

1374
01:19:39,580 --> 01:19:41,140
common as some of the other ones
we've heard.

1375
01:19:41,140 --> 01:19:43,620
Usually when we talk about
killers, we hear schizophrenic.

1376
01:19:45,100 --> 01:19:47,180
It's a very hard mental illness
to have.

1377
01:19:47,180 --> 01:19:51,100
It's hard to diagnose.
But I feel like I should just

1378
01:19:51,100 --> 01:19:54,100
explain it because a lot of
people who have mental illnesses

1379
01:19:54,620 --> 01:19:58,700
really find the way that it is
portrayed in court to be very

1380
01:19:58,700 --> 01:20:03,600
disrespectful.
Yes, Catherine did have some of

1381
01:20:03,600 --> 01:20:06,200
the symptoms, but dissociation
is not.

1382
01:20:06,200 --> 01:20:09,280
You forgetting who and where you
are and you just black out for a

1383
01:20:09,280 --> 01:20:12,080
month.
Dissociation is your mind

1384
01:20:12,280 --> 01:20:16,280
separating itself from the
information and stimulus coming

1385
01:20:16,280 --> 01:20:18,280
in.
It can affect your sense of

1386
01:20:18,280 --> 01:20:21,960
identity, your sense of self.
It affects your sense of time.

1387
01:20:22,600 --> 01:20:25,280
People dissociating report
feeling like they are almost

1388
01:20:25,280 --> 01:20:30,570
outside of themselves, watching
them experience the world, They

1389
01:20:30,570 --> 01:20:32,330
don't forget what's happening to
them.

1390
01:20:32,850 --> 01:20:35,930
It's not a blackout.
You're just kind of watching and

1391
01:20:35,930 --> 01:20:41,330
not feeling what's happening.
For you, my friends who have had

1392
01:20:41,330 --> 01:20:47,050
this, have told, who have, who
have experienced it, have told

1393
01:20:47,050 --> 01:20:50,650
me that they feel just numb and
like they're watching themselves

1394
01:20:50,650 --> 01:20:52,770
in a film, it's really hard to
explain.

1395
01:20:53,610 --> 01:20:56,290
It's like you're a third person.
You're not the first person,

1396
01:20:56,450 --> 01:20:57,930
right?
But because this is such a hard

1397
01:20:57,930 --> 01:21:00,370
thing to explain to people who
don't understand, it has this

1398
01:21:00,410 --> 01:21:04,610
aspect of her supposed mental
illness, and it was definitely

1399
01:21:04,610 --> 01:21:06,810
on purpose.
In fact, one of my best friends

1400
01:21:06,810 --> 01:21:10,570
for the last decade has BPD.
And you know who this person is,

1401
01:21:10,570 --> 01:21:11,890
Brian.
But I won't say their name on

1402
01:21:11,890 --> 01:21:14,690
air because this diagnosis gets
a really bad rap.

1403
01:21:16,050 --> 01:21:18,010
People treat you poorly for
having it.

1404
01:21:18,370 --> 01:21:22,250
I have come across dozens upon
dozens of articles that just are

1405
01:21:22,250 --> 01:21:25,450
like, This is why you shouldn't
date someone with BPD.

1406
01:21:26,010 --> 01:21:28,650
It's a very difficult illness to
manage and I've known three

1407
01:21:28,650 --> 01:21:32,410
different people in my life who
are managing it and are nothing

1408
01:21:32,410 --> 01:21:34,410
like this.
Yeah, I know a few as well,

1409
01:21:35,610 --> 01:21:37,850
Catherine and.
Her lawyer put on a.

1410
01:21:37,850 --> 01:21:41,810
Whole show.
So at the beginning of the trial

1411
01:21:41,810 --> 01:21:43,650
they.
You know, read off all of your

1412
01:21:43,650 --> 01:21:47,090
crimes, Catherine begins begging
to.

1413
01:21:47,090 --> 01:21:50,930
Leave the courtroom, she cries,
and she begins wailing.

1414
01:21:50,930 --> 01:21:54,680
She has an entire fit when they
bring out the photos of the

1415
01:21:54,680 --> 01:21:56,960
crime scene and they.
Actually have to sedate her.

1416
01:21:58,400 --> 01:22:00,400
Thankfully, the jury didn't care
at all.

1417
01:22:00,400 --> 01:22:03,880
If she remembered committing the
crime because her bloody

1418
01:22:03,880 --> 01:22:05,480
fingerprints were all over
John's house.

1419
01:22:05,520 --> 01:22:09,600
And she was the only person in
town, one of the few people in

1420
01:22:09,600 --> 01:22:12,720
town who could fillet a man with
that much skill, and the only

1421
01:22:12,720 --> 01:22:16,320
one with the motive to do it.
The judge sentenced her to life

1422
01:22:16,320 --> 01:22:17,240
in prison.
And then?

1423
01:22:17,360 --> 01:22:22,760
Added to her file never to be
released, she was the first

1424
01:22:22,760 --> 01:22:26,240
woman in Australia to receive.
This punishment and I remember

1425
01:22:26,240 --> 01:22:29,400
thinking at the time, all
because she killed one man.

1426
01:22:30,160 --> 01:22:32,160
Sure it was gruesome, but I read
worse.

1427
01:22:32,880 --> 01:22:38,440
But now, after researching this,
Catherine Knight was a menace to

1428
01:22:38,440 --> 01:22:41,080
everyone.
In Aberdeen, from 15 years old

1429
01:22:41,080 --> 01:22:46,240
to 46, like I get why nobody in
this area wanted her there at

1430
01:22:46,240 --> 01:22:49,400
all.
So Catherine has been in the.

1431
01:22:49,840 --> 01:22:51,240
Mulloa.
High security prison.

1432
01:22:51,240 --> 01:22:57,910
Ever since, she is escorted by 4
armed guards because even

1433
01:22:57,910 --> 01:23:00,510
medicated, they see her as still
dangerous.

1434
01:23:01,030 --> 01:23:03,870
She wakes up at 7:00 AM.
She eats breakfast in the same

1435
01:23:03,870 --> 01:23:06,350
room as the other prisoners, but
nowhere near them.

1436
01:23:06,830 --> 01:23:08,550
They walk her to her job in the
prison.

1437
01:23:08,550 --> 01:23:11,430
They handcuff her to her
station, which is out of reach

1438
01:23:11,430 --> 01:23:14,430
of all the other inmates where
she assembles small intricate

1439
01:23:14,470 --> 01:23:16,950
earpieces.
She is very good at her job,

1440
01:23:16,950 --> 01:23:20,750
actually, so good that it's the
the job that pays the most in

1441
01:23:20,750 --> 01:23:23,670
the prison and she got it
because she's the best doing it

1442
01:23:26,390 --> 01:23:27,430
and interestingly.
Enough the.

1443
01:23:27,430 --> 01:23:32,670
Prisoners call her Nana, and she
often handles disputes between.

1444
01:23:32,670 --> 01:23:35,070
The women in prison before
guards are called.

1445
01:23:35,470 --> 01:23:38,110
Sometimes when they prisoners
get upset with the guards, she

1446
01:23:38,110 --> 01:23:40,350
tells them to knock it off and
they do.

1447
01:23:41,030 --> 01:23:45,230
Her word is pretty much the law
under the law because people are

1448
01:23:45,230 --> 01:23:48,030
still scared of her even now
like 20/21.

1449
01:23:48,030 --> 01:23:52,930
She is a 65 year old woman.
When she is at cell times, she.

1450
01:23:53,690 --> 01:23:56,970
She's turned her love of
meticulous knife work into

1451
01:23:56,970 --> 01:24:00,330
drawings, paintings, pottery,
knitting, intricate pieces.

1452
01:24:00,690 --> 01:24:03,850
Her artwork is so good that the
prison put it up in the visitor

1453
01:24:03,850 --> 01:24:06,690
and guard section.
Some pieces have been sold to

1454
01:24:06,690 --> 01:24:09,170
help fund programs in the
prison, but she doesn't find

1455
01:24:09,170 --> 01:24:11,050
them.
She doesn't actually like the

1456
01:24:11,050 --> 01:24:13,330
idea of people buying it because
she's the killer.

1457
01:24:13,330 --> 01:24:17,300
There are people who would.
Exactly there.

1458
01:24:17,300 --> 01:24:18,780
I'm like there.
Are people in the States who are

1459
01:24:18,780 --> 01:24:21,300
like, absolutely.
I will sign anything you want

1460
01:24:21,300 --> 01:24:24,700
for some money.
In the last 20 years, Catherine

1461
01:24:24,700 --> 01:24:25,940
has never.
Been given a cellmate.

1462
01:24:26,540 --> 01:24:30,620
The prison thinks that she's
still a risk, and so the only

1463
01:24:30,620 --> 01:24:34,500
way to keep everyone else safe
around her is to have these

1464
01:24:34,500 --> 01:24:36,940
guards on her whenever she's
around anyone.

1465
01:24:37,260 --> 01:24:40,180
She's not allowed to be alone
except in herself.

1466
01:24:41,700 --> 01:24:43,500
Honestly, I agree.
Like, this is one of those.

1467
01:24:43,500 --> 01:24:47,110
Situations where I am pretty
solid in what the courts did

1468
01:24:47,590 --> 01:24:49,550
normally, we're like mad at the
justice.

1469
01:24:49,950 --> 01:24:52,670
But I'm like, no, you guys are
good.

1470
01:24:52,670 --> 01:24:59,070
NSW high five, absolutely on.
Yeah, now a lot of people.

1471
01:24:59,510 --> 01:25:03,910
Who listen to this podcast often
e-mail me asking for more modern

1472
01:25:03,910 --> 01:25:06,430
stories.
The problem with modern stories

1473
01:25:06,430 --> 01:25:09,430
is that there are people who are
still alive like her four

1474
01:25:09,430 --> 01:25:13,870
children, Melissa and Natasha
Kellet, Sarah Saunders and Eric

1475
01:25:13,870 --> 01:25:17,210
Chillingworth.
These are real people with who

1476
01:25:17,210 --> 01:25:21,010
are in their 30s and 40s and
they are just trying to live

1477
01:25:21,010 --> 01:25:24,730
their lives.
And not deal with this None of

1478
01:25:24,730 --> 01:25:25,930
her kids have anything to do
with her.

1479
01:25:26,370 --> 01:25:28,410
John Price did have three
children total, Rebecca,

1480
01:25:28,410 --> 01:25:33,850
Rosemary and John.
Rebecca and John.

1481
01:25:34,210 --> 01:25:38,010
There's no mention of them in
any publications.

1482
01:25:38,410 --> 01:25:40,010
The one thing I.
Did find was that John's

1483
01:25:40,010 --> 01:25:42,570
daughter Rosemary, who was not
there when the crimes happened,

1484
01:25:43,550 --> 01:25:46,990
is not fond of sensationalism
about her father's death.

1485
01:25:47,590 --> 01:25:51,510
And I found an article where she
spoke about how distasteful it

1486
01:25:51,510 --> 01:25:54,430
was that someone was trying to
make a movie about him.

1487
01:25:54,990 --> 01:25:57,350
Yeah, I saw that I was.
I was looking up and I was.

1488
01:25:57,790 --> 01:26:01,350
Like, and they were going to
name it after his nickname for

1489
01:26:01,350 --> 01:26:03,070
her.
He called her The Speckled Hen.

1490
01:26:03,630 --> 01:26:06,350
And I'm like, that's it.
Term of Endearment.

1491
01:26:06,630 --> 01:26:12,910
I don't want that movie.
Catherine did appeal her.

1492
01:26:12,910 --> 01:26:17,030
Life sentence in June of 2006.
She said that it was too severe

1493
01:26:17,030 --> 01:26:19,950
to never give her a chance to
rehabilitate.

1494
01:26:20,790 --> 01:26:24,310
Justices Peter McClellan,
Michael Adams and Megan Latham

1495
01:26:24,310 --> 01:26:28,590
discussed the appeal in
September of 2006, and they

1496
01:26:28,590 --> 01:26:32,510
rejected it primarily because.
Catherine has never shown any

1497
01:26:32,510 --> 01:26:35,830
remorse for this murder and
Justice McClellan wrote in his

1498
01:26:35,830 --> 01:26:38,510
formal response.
This was an appalling crime,

1499
01:26:39,010 --> 01:26:42,170
almost beyond contemplation in
civilized society.

1500
01:26:42,690 --> 01:26:45,570
I would say he's right, and
there's really no way we could

1501
01:26:45,570 --> 01:26:47,650
ever know if Catherine has been
rehabilitated.

1502
01:26:48,810 --> 01:26:52,410
And I wouldn't risk trying.
To rehabilitate her and put her

1503
01:26:52,410 --> 01:26:55,930
around other people?
No, because he even has a

1504
01:26:55,930 --> 01:26:59,450
grandma.
She could still slice and dice

1505
01:26:59,450 --> 01:27:00,890
somebody.
My God, hell yeah.

1506
01:27:01,730 --> 01:27:02,730
One of the things that was
struck.

1507
01:27:02,730 --> 01:27:08,640
By this week's subject is how
misogyny protected Catherine

1508
01:27:08,640 --> 01:27:11,200
Knight.
None of the men she ever dated

1509
01:27:11,280 --> 01:27:13,200
ever filed a police.
Report against her.

1510
01:27:13,960 --> 01:27:17,520
And a lot of that was from the
shame of reporting that they

1511
01:27:17,520 --> 01:27:20,880
were abuse victims.
I know some of these

1512
01:27:20,880 --> 01:27:23,120
relationships.
Were from decades ago, but this

1513
01:27:23,120 --> 01:27:27,200
is still an issue today.
Men are being abused by women

1514
01:27:27,200 --> 01:27:29,160
like Catherine.
Knight and we just don't talk

1515
01:27:29,160 --> 01:27:32,360
about it and they get laughed at
when they report it or mocked by

1516
01:27:32,360 --> 01:27:35,960
both men and women alike.
And I I'm just left wondering

1517
01:27:35,960 --> 01:27:39,750
if, globally, the culture around
domestic violence was different

1518
01:27:40,110 --> 01:27:43,430
and less misogynistic, then
maybe she would have been put in

1519
01:27:43,430 --> 01:27:46,110
prison long before she murdered
John Price, right?

1520
01:27:46,390 --> 01:27:48,510
Yeah, this is one of those few
times.

1521
01:27:49,070 --> 01:27:51,750
In the podcast.
Where I'm not upset with the

1522
01:27:51,750 --> 01:27:54,950
justice system, I'm more upset
with society.

1523
01:27:57,110 --> 01:27:59,470
It is the thing.
I just like this.

1524
01:27:59,470 --> 01:28:04,790
Just came up like a day or two
ago about men and being, you

1525
01:28:04,790 --> 01:28:06,760
know.
In relationships with her being

1526
01:28:06,760 --> 01:28:09,800
abused, I'm like, look, if you
need someone to talk to, I will

1527
01:28:09,800 --> 01:28:11,800
not judge you at all.
Yeah, it's wrong.

1528
01:28:12,000 --> 01:28:14,360
It's it's it's a thing men do
get.

1529
01:28:15,000 --> 01:28:17,640
And it's, yeah, it's rough, it's
terrible.

1530
01:28:17,640 --> 01:28:21,680
And The thing is, globally
around the world, in the 50s,

1531
01:28:21,680 --> 01:28:26,160
sixties, 70s, it was the same
way like.

1532
01:28:26,720 --> 01:28:29,600
You didn't want to show that you
weren't masculine.

1533
01:28:30,240 --> 01:28:36,770
And sure, Catherine Knight was 6
feet and she was a very several

1534
01:28:36,770 --> 01:28:39,090
of the books I read described to
her as having a sculpted

1535
01:28:39,090 --> 01:28:41,130
physique.
It's because she was constantly

1536
01:28:41,130 --> 01:28:44,170
lifting, having things.
She was built, but not like

1537
01:28:45,770 --> 01:28:47,290
bodybuilder built.
Yeah, she was just.

1538
01:28:47,450 --> 01:28:49,810
Like a toned type, right?
She was toned, yeah.

1539
01:28:49,810 --> 01:28:54,210
Yeah, and attractive, but like.
Regardless of how tall she was.

1540
01:28:58,120 --> 01:28:59,880
Me, it's one of those weird
things, cuz in the beginning we

1541
01:28:59,880 --> 01:29:02,640
were like, yay, rah, rah.
She's beating up her brothers

1542
01:29:02,640 --> 01:29:03,760
who are touching her.
Yeah.

1543
01:29:03,760 --> 01:29:06,400
And then I'm like now she's just
beating up everybody.

1544
01:29:06,400 --> 01:29:09,240
Yeah, I I forever.
I love how the stories.

1545
01:29:09,680 --> 01:29:13,080
Like devolve into this.
Like, yay, I'm cheering for this

1546
01:29:13,080 --> 01:29:15,520
person because they have a like
they had a rough time but now

1547
01:29:15,520 --> 01:29:19,080
they're like overcoming it and
then you're then eventually it

1548
01:29:19,440 --> 01:29:23,400
becomes like them being the
assaulter or like the Yeah, it's

1549
01:29:23,400 --> 01:29:25,920
just.
Well, that's the humanity and

1550
01:29:25,920 --> 01:29:29,880
part of why like doing this
podcast, because all of these

1551
01:29:29,880 --> 01:29:33,800
people.
Are human, which means there is.

1552
01:29:34,040 --> 01:29:38,320
It's multifaceted.
There is.

1553
01:29:38,320 --> 01:29:42,480
Good and bad in everybody.
Unfortunately, in this case the

1554
01:29:42,480 --> 01:29:43,520
bad was.
Very bad.

1555
01:29:43,520 --> 01:29:47,720
It's usually very bad when we
talk about these things, but one

1556
01:29:47,720 --> 01:29:51,850
thing that we we learn is that
they come from they experience

1557
01:29:51,850 --> 01:29:54,170
some of the the very human
things that a lot of us have.

1558
01:29:54,530 --> 01:29:56,370
Some of these people come from
broken homes.

1559
01:29:56,650 --> 01:29:59,770
That's pops up all the time.
And our our stories or.

1560
01:30:02,890 --> 01:30:06,290
So that's important to me
because I I don't know why.

1561
01:30:06,290 --> 01:30:08,410
This is just one of those things
that's really important to me,

1562
01:30:08,850 --> 01:30:15,450
which is just even the worst of.
Us are still people, and somehow

1563
01:30:15,450 --> 01:30:20,850
me recognizing that allows me
to, kind of.

1564
01:30:21,230 --> 01:30:25,750
Know my place.
We all have a capacity.

1565
01:30:25,750 --> 01:30:29,630
For evil, and the thing that
makes us different from

1566
01:30:29,630 --> 01:30:33,150
everybody else is the fact that
we choose not to do it.

1567
01:30:33,350 --> 01:30:35,350
Exactly.
That's how we handle it.

1568
01:30:35,710 --> 01:30:39,830
We do it with it.
I don't believe in in.

1569
01:30:39,830 --> 01:30:42,670
Looking at people and treating
them like they're boogeyman,

1570
01:30:43,430 --> 01:30:47,070
this is a monster.
I'm like, this is a person who

1571
01:30:47,070 --> 01:30:51,580
did a monstrous thing.
Make no mistakes.

1572
01:30:52,420 --> 01:30:57,780
I talk about people on the tech
talk all the time who kill

1573
01:30:57,780 --> 01:31:01,020
people out of love.
For other people.

1574
01:31:01,700 --> 01:31:05,580
So never say never, I guess.
Yeah, yeah.

1575
01:31:05,580 --> 01:31:08,940
But what do you have for me
today, Brian?

1576
01:31:09,380 --> 01:31:13,460
That was a great story.
I hated it.

1577
01:31:17,020 --> 01:31:19,500
Oh dude.
Goodness gracious.

1578
01:31:22,090 --> 01:31:24,530
So.
This week.

1579
01:31:24,930 --> 01:31:26,730
I was let you know that.
I I get.

1580
01:31:26,730 --> 01:31:30,050
Lost easily inside of buildings
I'm unfamiliar with.

1581
01:31:30,410 --> 01:31:34,090
Oh, like so for my job.
You know, I go to hospitals and

1582
01:31:34,090 --> 01:31:34,930
stuff.
Like that, right?

1583
01:31:34,970 --> 01:31:37,170
You have to walk through all the
finding hospital hallways.

1584
01:31:37,290 --> 01:31:38,770
Uh huh.
The worst one is Hershey.

1585
01:31:38,770 --> 01:31:43,090
That's where it is.
But like when I first would.

1586
01:31:43,090 --> 01:31:45,050
Go to a hospital.
I'd get lost a couple times.

1587
01:31:45,050 --> 01:31:46,010
But they have signs in the
walls.

1588
01:31:46,010 --> 01:31:48,180
I'm like OK.
Well, at least I don't get that

1589
01:31:48,180 --> 01:31:49,820
lost.
I know which way I should be

1590
01:31:49,820 --> 01:31:55,660
heading, but can you just?
Imagine if someone.

1591
01:31:55,700 --> 01:31:59,660
Would just would just drop me
off inside of like the

1592
01:31:59,660 --> 01:32:02,900
Winchester Mystery House.
I love the Winchester Mystery

1593
01:32:02,900 --> 01:32:06,340
House and like at night and I
have no idea where.

1594
01:32:06,340 --> 01:32:09,660
The hell I'm going and all those
whining in like trap doors and

1595
01:32:09,660 --> 01:32:11,900
stuff.
Listen, if we can go there, I

1596
01:32:11,900 --> 01:32:16,340
would absolutely go there with
you like.

1597
01:32:17,990 --> 01:32:20,670
I it would take me like.
Forever to find my way out of

1598
01:32:20,670 --> 01:32:25,830
that damn.
But I've been saving this story.

1599
01:32:26,150 --> 01:32:29,270
It's been in my back pocket for.
I don't know since we started

1600
01:32:29,270 --> 01:32:32,190
the freaking podcast, I think,
but this is one of my favorites.

1601
01:32:33,630 --> 01:32:35,470
I decided to talk about it since
it's getting.

1602
01:32:35,470 --> 01:32:38,510
Closer and.
Closer to freaking October.

1603
01:32:38,510 --> 01:32:42,830
Can you believe that?
My God, like I'm planning.

1604
01:32:43,390 --> 01:32:45,910
It's what's, say, 25th.
It's almost October.

1605
01:32:46,110 --> 01:32:46,750
This.
Friday.

1606
01:32:47,190 --> 01:32:49,270
Oh my God.
I gotta get a damn costume.

1607
01:32:50,030 --> 01:32:55,830
I know, so I figured.
Why not, you know, break it?

1608
01:32:56,910 --> 01:32:57,790
I'm ready.
All right.

1609
01:32:58,030 --> 01:33:03,030
So now before we get into you.
Know the spooky home house?

1610
01:33:03,430 --> 01:33:07,630
It's it's only right that we
delve into the mind of its

1611
01:33:07,670 --> 01:33:10,920
designer creator.
Constructor.

1612
01:33:11,400 --> 01:33:13,440
Yeah, whatever.
She doesn't do anything, not.

1613
01:33:13,720 --> 01:33:15,880
She just got the plans and she's
hired people?

1614
01:33:15,960 --> 01:33:20,440
Yeah, so we're talking about.
I feel bad for her.

1615
01:33:20,720 --> 01:33:22,520
Yeah.
We'll talk a little bit about

1616
01:33:22,520 --> 01:33:27,800
Sarah Winchester.
Herself, she was born Sarah

1617
01:33:29,360 --> 01:33:32,440
Lockwood Party.
The daughter of.

1618
01:33:32,440 --> 01:33:37,240
Leonard Party and Sarah Burns.
She grew up pretty well off.

1619
01:33:37,960 --> 01:33:41,280
I mean, she spoke like 4
languages, so she spoke 4

1620
01:33:41,280 --> 01:33:43,720
languages.
She went to like good schools.

1621
01:33:43,880 --> 01:33:48,680
She was very beautiful and had a
very sparkling personality.

1622
01:33:48,720 --> 01:33:53,120
So I can't remember a picture of
her, so I'm gonna say she

1623
01:33:53,120 --> 01:33:54,560
pretty.
She grew up pretty.

1624
01:33:55,600 --> 01:33:58,200
By the way, her family is from
Connecticut.

1625
01:33:59,120 --> 01:34:02,320
Yeah, that's basically where
this all started.

1626
01:34:02,440 --> 01:34:07,610
So Connecticut, I know she
didn't move West until later.

1627
01:34:07,690 --> 01:34:08,450
Way later.
Yeah.

1628
01:34:08,730 --> 01:34:12,850
Yeah, it's a pretty.
Safe visit in the fall.

1629
01:34:12,850 --> 01:34:15,970
You know this time of year if.
You wanna go to New England?

1630
01:34:15,970 --> 01:34:17,410
Yeah.
New England is beautiful.

1631
01:34:17,690 --> 01:34:22,090
Yeah, absolutely.
So I couldn't find where they

1632
01:34:22,090 --> 01:34:28,690
met, but on September 30th,
1862, Sarah married William Wert

1633
01:34:28,810 --> 01:34:32,090
Winchester.
I imagine if she was rich and he

1634
01:34:32,090 --> 01:34:34,000
was rich.
Well, there.

1635
01:34:34,000 --> 01:34:36,760
Yeah, it was arranged.
That was the time, wasn't it?

1636
01:34:36,760 --> 01:34:41,400
Yeah.
I just wrote a note.

1637
01:34:41,400 --> 01:34:43,600
There's triple.
She took no L's.

1638
01:34:44,200 --> 01:34:49,440
Oh my gosh, he was the son of.
Oliver.

1639
01:34:49,480 --> 01:34:53,440
Winchester, the owner of the
Winchester Repeating Arms

1640
01:34:53,440 --> 01:34:57,600
Company.
The creators of the Winchester

1641
01:34:57,600 --> 01:35:00,960
right the Winchester rifle.
It's said to.

1642
01:35:00,960 --> 01:35:06,340
Be the gun that won the West.
So they.

1643
01:35:06,340 --> 01:35:08,820
Had one child.
Her name was.

1644
01:35:08,860 --> 01:35:13,540
Annie Pardi.
She unfortunately died about a

1645
01:35:13,540 --> 01:35:18,100
month after she was born.
A lot of mysteries have.

1646
01:35:18,100 --> 01:35:19,740
Tuberculosis in.
Yeah.

1647
01:35:19,900 --> 01:35:22,740
I'm not sure why.
It's very common.

1648
01:35:23,660 --> 01:35:25,620
So tuberculosis was just that,
Rona.

1649
01:35:25,860 --> 01:35:28,380
Yeah, it really was.
It was that Rona?

1650
01:35:28,380 --> 01:35:29,300
Yes.
It was.

1651
01:35:29,460 --> 01:35:32,020
I'm sorry, I'm sorry.
That's a poor joke.

1652
01:35:32,910 --> 01:35:35,350
Oh my God.
So of course was the run out of

1653
01:35:35,350 --> 01:35:38,030
the.
Yeah, of course.

1654
01:35:38,030 --> 01:35:43,350
It was a comedy of these times.
So William wasn't spared from

1655
01:35:43,350 --> 01:35:48,030
the disease and succumbed to it
in 1881.

1656
01:35:50,110 --> 01:35:52,510
Not a consolation.
For having lost her.

1657
01:35:52,510 --> 01:36:00,190
Husband, but she did inherit
20.5. $1,000,000.

1658
01:36:01,520 --> 01:36:09,280
That's about 500 thirty $600.3
million in today's cash.

1659
01:36:10,680 --> 01:36:14,440
It was the entire for chat.
Yeah, she got like, no, she got

1660
01:36:14,440 --> 01:36:15,440
half of.
Well, yeah, she got.

1661
01:36:15,440 --> 01:36:18,040
Half of the fortune.
No, no, she got the whatever

1662
01:36:18,120 --> 01:36:21,560
she's gonna say, Holy Jesus.
Also, she did.

1663
01:36:21,560 --> 01:36:23,080
That's a lot of money.
That means that the.

1664
01:36:24,120 --> 01:36:24,440
No.
What?

1665
01:36:24,440 --> 01:36:26,120
She got half.
The family was worth a billion

1666
01:36:26,120 --> 01:36:28,480
dollars.
What she got half of was the

1667
01:36:28,480 --> 01:36:30,640
ownership of the Winchester.
Repeating arms company Okay.

1668
01:36:31,720 --> 01:36:34,680
So which came with Excuse me,
there it.

1669
01:36:34,680 --> 01:36:39,640
Goes my voice, which came with a
nice income of $1000 a day.

1670
01:36:40,360 --> 01:36:47,510
That is $26,852.
And $0.29 in today's money.

1671
01:36:47,950 --> 01:36:50,030
I love it.
You would have been making more

1672
01:36:50,030 --> 01:36:52,590
than I make in.
A year in a day like I'm fucking

1673
01:36:52,590 --> 01:36:55,430
sick when I.
Read that I was.

1674
01:36:55,430 --> 01:37:00,070
Like the teacher is a thankless
and not paying well job.

1675
01:37:00,070 --> 01:37:05,310
Y'all my God, they make.
Like goodness.

1676
01:37:05,790 --> 01:37:11,670
Anyway, so this means our and
always were a big business.

1677
01:37:11,950 --> 01:37:15,030
Yeah, so this made her one of
the.

1678
01:37:15,270 --> 01:37:19,110
Wealthiest women in the world
One of the wealthiest women in

1679
01:37:19,110 --> 01:37:20,390
the world?
What year would this have been?

1680
01:37:23,070 --> 01:37:26,270
18.
I'm missing 18. 8118 That's when

1681
01:37:26,270 --> 01:37:29,550
he died.
So cuz I'm trying to remember

1682
01:37:29,550 --> 01:37:37,430
when Madam CJ Walker was she was
born in. 1867 and died in 1919.

1683
01:37:37,710 --> 01:37:41,670
She was also one of the most she
was like the first black woman

1684
01:37:41,670 --> 01:37:45,290
millionaire.
So and she's considered to be

1685
01:37:45,290 --> 01:37:47,850
one of the most rich women of
the time.

1686
01:37:48,330 --> 01:37:53,530
And Sarah Winchester is more
wealthy than Madam CJ Walker by

1687
01:37:53,530 --> 01:37:54,730
a lot.
Oh my God.

1688
01:37:56,010 --> 01:38:00,050
Freaking crazy.
So I imagine there weren't too.

1689
01:38:00,050 --> 01:38:05,530
Many women who had that, yeah.
But yeah, not the country she's.

1690
01:38:05,770 --> 01:38:09,690
Richest in the freaking.
Yeah, 500 times more wealthy.

1691
01:38:09,850 --> 01:38:11,170
It's crazy.
And they live around the same

1692
01:38:11,210 --> 01:38:12,450
time.
It is crazy.

1693
01:38:13,300 --> 01:38:18,620
Oh my God, I I was still sick.
About it so I that's just I.

1694
01:38:20,660 --> 01:38:22,420
Was like the whole.
Round.

1695
01:38:22,660 --> 01:38:26,780
Not flat.
That's just doing me in fam,

1696
01:38:26,780 --> 01:38:28,460
that's.
So much money.

1697
01:38:29,140 --> 01:38:32,020
Oh my God, it's almost
unfathomable.

1698
01:38:32,020 --> 01:38:34,780
It's the way that people talk
about Jeff Bezos and like he

1699
01:38:34,780 --> 01:38:37,940
makes 300.
Is it $300,000 a day?

1700
01:38:38,980 --> 01:38:41,220
Something crazy?
And I'm just like I don't.

1701
01:38:41,220 --> 01:38:43,620
Know what that means?
Like you're talking about a

1702
01:38:43,620 --> 01:38:45,580
billion.
But I really don't understand a

1703
01:38:45,580 --> 01:38:53,020
billion practically.
So for me, a billion and 500

1704
01:38:53,020 --> 01:38:55,220
million, same thing.
Yeah, basically, I don't

1705
01:38:55,220 --> 01:38:56,940
understand exactly.
Yeah.

1706
01:38:57,980 --> 01:39:00,300
It might as well.
It might as well be.

1707
01:39:00,300 --> 01:39:03,060
Monopoly money for me, yeah.
Cuz I have no idea what's going

1708
01:39:03,060 --> 01:39:05,030
on.
So of course.

1709
01:39:05,030 --> 01:39:08,630
Deeply saddened by the passing
of her child and husband.

1710
01:39:08,670 --> 01:39:12,430
They did pass 15 years, 15 years
apart still.

1711
01:39:12,510 --> 01:39:17,710
But yeah, still, that's exactly
she does.

1712
01:39:17,950 --> 01:39:22,150
When any grieving?
Person of that time would do

1713
01:39:22,150 --> 01:39:28,070
uhoh, she goes to see a medium.
They were all would be so

1714
01:39:28,070 --> 01:39:30,430
disappointed.
They were all the rage back

1715
01:39:30,430 --> 01:39:32,750
then.
Side note.

1716
01:39:33,100 --> 01:39:36,620
I'm pretty sure that we had
that.

1717
01:39:36,980 --> 01:39:38,740
We had that fortune.
Telling law in PA.

1718
01:39:40,060 --> 01:39:42,780
Due to freaking Houdini.
You remember when I was telling

1719
01:39:42,980 --> 01:39:46,820
you, Remember when I was telling
the story about Houdini and how

1720
01:39:46,820 --> 01:39:49,460
he got, he kind of got fortune
telling outlawed, right?

1721
01:39:49,460 --> 01:39:51,180
Yeah.
I mean, he was pretty aggressive

1722
01:39:51,180 --> 01:39:54,380
about it.
Yeah, pretty much lobbying the

1723
01:39:54,420 --> 01:39:57,140
government.
And I just remember that they

1724
01:39:57,140 --> 01:39:59,700
were taking advantage of a very.
Public.

1725
01:39:59,700 --> 01:40:02,340
This is true.
Very true.

1726
01:40:02,650 --> 01:40:04,130
And I'm not mad at him.
For it, Yeah.

1727
01:40:04,210 --> 01:40:06,650
I'm not mad.
At Houdini, because I know a

1728
01:40:06,650 --> 01:40:10,370
little bit about the story and I
feel like Sarah Winchester was

1729
01:40:10,370 --> 01:40:14,370
taken advantage of.
So this medium.

1730
01:40:15,770 --> 01:40:18,970
They tell her that the
Winchester family is cursed

1731
01:40:19,410 --> 01:40:23,450
because the guns that they made
took so many lives.

1732
01:40:24,090 --> 01:40:28,250
So the spirits that were killed
by the guns were seeking vented,

1733
01:40:28,250 --> 01:40:31,690
and in order to kind of save
herself from the curse.

1734
01:40:32,040 --> 01:40:37,280
Sarah had to build a home for
not only herself, but for the

1735
01:40:37,280 --> 01:40:42,760
spirits as well.
Yeah, basically you're making

1736
01:40:42,760 --> 01:40:45,920
money off of our.
Desks, like, yeah.

1737
01:40:47,520 --> 01:40:50,440
So the medium tells her that.
The home was to.

1738
01:40:50,440 --> 01:40:56,360
Be situated in the West where
the sunsets so with her

1739
01:40:56,360 --> 01:40:59,120
belongings and.
Inheritance.

1740
01:40:59,680 --> 01:41:02,320
That she just, you know.
What was that?

1741
01:41:02,320 --> 01:41:06,640
Money is no gotten games.
She didn't want it, though, to

1742
01:41:06,680 --> 01:41:08,120
be honest, she would have.
Rather had her.

1743
01:41:08,120 --> 01:41:11,640
Husband, Yeah, absolutely.
She moves from New Haven.

1744
01:41:11,640 --> 01:41:16,040
Connecticut to San Jose, CA
where she purchased an

1745
01:41:16,080 --> 01:41:21,560
unfurnished 8 room farmhouse,
the house used to.

1746
01:41:21,560 --> 01:41:23,720
Be yeah, the house.
Used to only have 8:00 rooms,

1747
01:41:24,600 --> 01:41:28,080
only 8 rooms.
I'll tell you later how many

1748
01:41:28,080 --> 01:41:32,840
rooms it has, I was thinking.
So that that that would be

1749
01:41:32,840 --> 01:41:34,600
enough for anybody.
Right, just 8 rooms.

1750
01:41:34,640 --> 01:41:36,680
Maybe in their spirits, the
spirits can have a room by

1751
01:41:36,680 --> 01:41:39,080
themselves.
And you know, yeah, there you

1752
01:41:39,080 --> 01:41:41,840
go.
It's only me.

1753
01:41:41,840 --> 01:41:44,160
Yeah, but I guess if your
housing goes, they, you know,

1754
01:41:44,160 --> 01:41:45,320
you gotta.
Gotta have some.

1755
01:41:46,480 --> 01:41:50,200
Make some renovations.
So she hired carpenters,

1756
01:41:50,200 --> 01:41:56,200
builders and laborers, and they
worked basically day and night

1757
01:41:56,640 --> 01:42:01,380
on this house.
Now I like I said, I remember

1758
01:42:01,380 --> 01:42:03,260
that I've.
I've seen multiple things about

1759
01:42:03,260 --> 01:42:04,980
this.
How do you sleep?

1760
01:42:07,060 --> 01:42:09,460
And how's your?
Your That's constantly under

1761
01:42:09,460 --> 01:42:11,020
construction.
Pretty easily.

1762
01:42:11,020 --> 01:42:13,100
My uncle, my grand uncle, he
actually.

1763
01:42:13,580 --> 01:42:15,420
Does like house flipping and
stuff like that?

1764
01:42:15,700 --> 01:42:18,380
Well, just cuz like, you know,
when there's been construction

1765
01:42:18,380 --> 01:42:22,100
or them working on something out
in front of my building, I find

1766
01:42:22,100 --> 01:42:24,980
it very bothersome.
I don't know.

1767
01:42:24,980 --> 01:42:30,150
I can sleep like the dead so.
I definitely noticed that.

1768
01:42:30,150 --> 01:42:33,030
They are making sounds at like
6:00 AM.

1769
01:42:37,550 --> 01:42:40,270
So they worked and worked on it
until it was a.

1770
01:42:40,310 --> 01:42:43,470
Seven Story Mansion.
Cool, right?

1771
01:42:43,670 --> 01:42:45,310
I didn't know it was seven
stories it.

1772
01:42:45,310 --> 01:42:46,910
Was seven stories.
Oh geez.

1773
01:42:46,910 --> 01:42:50,670
Wait, was it was 7?
When was it 7 stories?

1774
01:42:51,230 --> 01:42:54,950
Back when they first built it.
Interesting, cuz it's not that

1775
01:42:54,950 --> 01:42:57,270
big now, no?
There's there's a reason why.

1776
01:42:59,460 --> 01:43:04,740
Well, since Sarah didn't use any
type of architect, the house no,

1777
01:43:05,100 --> 01:43:07,460
the house was built pretty
haphazardly.

1778
01:43:07,580 --> 01:43:07,820
Wait.
Wait.

1779
01:43:07,820 --> 01:43:08,140
Wait.
Wait.

1780
01:43:08,540 --> 01:43:10,380
Wait, wait, wait.
I've seen pictures of this place

1781
01:43:10,380 --> 01:43:12,220
and it looks.
Very beautifully done.

1782
01:43:12,660 --> 01:43:18,660
She just picked some random
folks from the 1900s Home Depot.

1783
01:43:18,780 --> 01:43:20,540
Yeah, basically.
And wait, here you go.

1784
01:43:21,420 --> 01:43:22,860
Well.
Actually, she'd have.

1785
01:43:22,860 --> 01:43:25,060
She had a plan.
For like the house in.

1786
01:43:25,660 --> 01:43:28,420
As that plan came from her
spirit friends.

1787
01:43:28,700 --> 01:43:30,340
Oh, yes.
Yes.

1788
01:43:30,340 --> 01:43:32,900
OK.
Because the ghost is a good

1789
01:43:32,900 --> 01:43:34,740
Arctic attack.
Yes, yes, yes, yes.

1790
01:43:35,220 --> 01:43:37,380
But based on how the rooms.
Were built.

1791
01:43:37,420 --> 01:43:44,420
I'm Pretty Little if you on how
or on I'm a little if you on if

1792
01:43:44,420 --> 01:43:46,180
She got all of it from the
ghost.

1793
01:43:46,860 --> 01:43:48,380
Right So we're getting that way
too.

1794
01:43:48,420 --> 01:43:50,100
It looks beautiful.
It is.

1795
01:43:50,100 --> 01:43:53,420
It's a.
Wonderful looking house, like I

1796
01:43:53,420 --> 01:43:55,140
love a good Victorian.
So that's.

1797
01:43:55,500 --> 01:43:57,740
On top of the whole ghost thing,
I would want to look at it just

1798
01:43:57,740 --> 01:43:59,340
because it's pretty.
Yeah, I know, right?

1799
01:43:59,540 --> 01:44:01,620
I'll go into the specs of the
house a little later.

1800
01:44:04,020 --> 01:44:05,420
Or is it a Victorian?
Am I right?

1801
01:44:05,420 --> 01:44:06,900
I think it was.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1802
01:44:08,380 --> 01:44:10,300
So when it was all.
Said and done the.

1803
01:44:11,180 --> 01:44:17,020
Had 161 rooms in it.
Sarah was.

1804
01:44:17,020 --> 01:44:18,700
So determined to finish the
mansion.

1805
01:44:18,780 --> 01:44:22,060
That she lived almost solitude
so.

1806
01:44:22,490 --> 01:44:24,930
No, no one lived with her.
She only people that were around

1807
01:44:24,930 --> 01:44:27,690
her were the construction
workers or the workers that she

1808
01:44:27,690 --> 01:44:29,170
hired.
Well, now one thing that I did

1809
01:44:29,170 --> 01:44:31,050
hear about her is that she
stayed in mourning her whole

1810
01:44:31,050 --> 01:44:33,050
life, didn't she?
Yeah, yeah.

1811
01:44:33,050 --> 01:44:35,170
Cuz she always wore black.
The black veil, she always wore

1812
01:44:35,170 --> 01:44:35,890
black.
Yep.

1813
01:44:37,010 --> 01:44:38,970
So you know.
That was, I guess, in.

1814
01:44:39,570 --> 01:44:43,090
What honor of her husband, Yeah.
Terrible.

1815
01:44:43,970 --> 01:44:47,130
Maybe it was for her.
Or maybe for the spirits that

1816
01:44:47,370 --> 01:44:52,700
you know that's true.
Out of respect for them, Yeah.

1817
01:44:53,860 --> 01:44:55,420
I mean, I wear black all the
time anyway.

1818
01:44:55,420 --> 01:44:58,700
So I'm always in mourning as
well, across from you also

1819
01:44:58,740 --> 01:44:59,940
wearing.
Mostly black.

1820
01:45:01,300 --> 01:45:03,300
We're both in mourning for what?
Who?

1821
01:45:04,140 --> 01:45:06,740
We're mourning.
Something, My goodness, okay.

1822
01:45:06,740 --> 01:45:09,780
So that was such a dark thought.
Okay, Gen.

1823
01:45:09,780 --> 01:45:11,260
Z, Brian.
My God.

1824
01:45:14,250 --> 01:45:16,530
Not.
Cracking jokes on y'all I find

1825
01:45:16,530 --> 01:45:18,490
Gen.
Z humor to be it's pretty

1826
01:45:19,050 --> 01:45:20,930
wonderful.
It's pretty nice whenever one.

1827
01:45:20,930 --> 01:45:26,250
Of my coworkers is just like
talking about like I hope I can

1828
01:45:26,250 --> 01:45:27,610
get by a bus.
I don't have to come.

1829
01:45:27,610 --> 01:45:29,210
Into work tomorrow.
I love it.

1830
01:45:29,770 --> 01:45:32,050
I think it's hilarious.
I mean, we're millennials, so we

1831
01:45:32,050 --> 01:45:34,730
kind of we get that.
We get that shit.

1832
01:45:35,210 --> 01:45:38,010
It's just super funny.
It's just it's just bad that

1833
01:45:38,010 --> 01:45:40,490
y'all a younger generation.
Like, it's feeling like that.

1834
01:45:40,490 --> 01:45:41,610
Yeah.
Like, why are y'all so

1835
01:45:41,650 --> 01:45:44,690
depressed?
I'm sorry, it was like we kind

1836
01:45:44,690 --> 01:45:46,690
of did this to you, but hope for
the future.

1837
01:45:46,890 --> 01:45:48,610
No.
Fuck that shit.

1838
01:45:48,610 --> 01:45:53,010
Oh my God.
Oh goodness.

1839
01:45:53,130 --> 01:45:57,170
September 5th, 1922.
Sarah passes away in her sleep

1840
01:45:57,650 --> 01:46:00,200
due to a heart failure.
Exactly.

1841
01:46:01,400 --> 01:46:02,320
Yep.
She was 83.

1842
01:46:02,840 --> 01:46:05,640
Okay, not that young.
No, no So.

1843
01:46:05,640 --> 01:46:07,720
And when she died, all
construction on the House.

1844
01:46:07,840 --> 01:46:12,120
Pretty much stopped, right?
So now let's get into the.

1845
01:46:12,120 --> 01:46:14,160
House cuz there are some.
Things I skipped over.

1846
01:46:14,600 --> 01:46:18,160
So we're going backwards and
going into the house and all the

1847
01:46:18,160 --> 01:46:20,080
construction.
The only things I know for sure

1848
01:46:20,080 --> 01:46:23,840
is that there's a seance room
and it's still there, and that

1849
01:46:24,350 --> 01:46:27,390
it's not as many rooms there now
as you said, because they

1850
01:46:27,390 --> 01:46:32,550
recently found like the 101st
room like 2 summers ago and they

1851
01:46:32,550 --> 01:46:35,590
didn't know where, like they
legitimately were, like, look, a

1852
01:46:35,590 --> 01:46:38,590
new room.
And I think that's so weird, cuz

1853
01:46:38,590 --> 01:46:41,510
it's been like a monument for
decades.

1854
01:46:41,510 --> 01:46:44,950
Yeah, yeah.
Historical site, that's what I

1855
01:46:44,950 --> 01:46:45,230
mean.
Not.

1856
01:46:45,230 --> 01:46:49,310
A monument.
So it did have 161 rooms.

1857
01:46:51,360 --> 01:46:53,280
And it was seven stories, yeah.
And.

1858
01:46:53,280 --> 01:46:55,360
There are pictures from this
time I don't.

1859
01:46:55,640 --> 01:46:57,120
Not sure.
I think there are.

1860
01:46:57,360 --> 01:46:59,240
I'm pretty sure you have.
To you have to dig for them.

1861
01:46:59,560 --> 01:47:03,280
But I know you're wondering just
what's all behind those doors

1862
01:47:03,280 --> 01:47:09,800
and those 161 rooms.
Well, this 24,000 square foot

1863
01:47:09,800 --> 01:47:16,160
mansion includes 40 bathrooms, 2
ballrooms and 9 kitchens and a

1864
01:47:16,160 --> 01:47:16,840
St.
Hunt's room.

1865
01:47:18,280 --> 01:47:20,160
Saint Hunt's room was called the
Witch's Cap.

1866
01:47:20,680 --> 01:47:25,360
Which is where you know she
would Sarah would go to get her

1867
01:47:25,360 --> 01:47:28,400
plans.
It's it's from scrolling.

1868
01:47:28,400 --> 01:47:32,480
It looks like a fancy mansion
that a rich person like in

1869
01:47:32,480 --> 01:47:36,040
today's time would own.
Yeah, if this is.

1870
01:47:37,720 --> 01:47:43,440
So how many square feet?
Again 24,000.

1871
01:47:43,520 --> 01:47:46,840
Again, as we sit in my 400
square foot apt.

1872
01:47:46,840 --> 01:47:49,920
I don't understand what that
means in real words.

1873
01:47:50,420 --> 01:47:53,500
In real terms.
I don't think I've ever been in

1874
01:47:53,500 --> 01:47:57,260
a house that bad.
Wait, I think I've.

1875
01:47:57,340 --> 01:47:59,300
Been something close to that.
But that's about it.

1876
01:48:00,220 --> 01:48:03,500
That sounds like the equivalent
of like a stadium.

1877
01:48:05,580 --> 01:48:07,620
I maybe have to see how.
Fucking Big A.

1878
01:48:07,620 --> 01:48:10,220
Stadium is but like on.
Her property?

1879
01:48:10,300 --> 01:48:13,780
She has like, orchards too,
yeah.

1880
01:48:14,180 --> 01:48:15,380
So a lot of people go there.
They get.

1881
01:48:15,380 --> 01:48:16,820
Married too, I.
Went on the website.

1882
01:48:16,820 --> 01:48:19,300
They have wedding stuff there
too, and it's like, what?

1883
01:48:20,620 --> 01:48:23,660
There's also a plantation.
This is true.

1884
01:48:23,660 --> 01:48:26,220
So true.
Oh my God, so.

1885
01:48:26,540 --> 01:48:31,860
There are also 47 fireplaces,
over 10,000 panes of glass, 2000

1886
01:48:31,860 --> 01:48:37,100
doors, 52 skylights, 2 basements
and three elevators in this

1887
01:48:37,100 --> 01:48:40,820
house.
Yeah, yeah, that's there it

1888
01:48:40,820 --> 01:48:42,180
goes.
Coal tower.

1889
01:48:42,260 --> 01:48:44,230
There it goes.
That's the only one.

1890
01:48:44,230 --> 01:48:45,190
I just wanted to see a picture
of.

1891
01:48:45,190 --> 01:48:49,390
What?
It looked like in the past and

1892
01:48:49,390 --> 01:48:51,630
as you can.
Tell she spared no.

1893
01:48:51,990 --> 01:48:53,230
Calls.
No calls to spared.

1894
01:48:54,110 --> 01:48:57,150
Some of the same glass windows
were made by Tiffany.

1895
01:48:57,550 --> 01:48:59,590
The Tiffany's are expensive.
Yes, yes.

1896
01:48:59,590 --> 01:49:03,750
Talking about $1,000,000 window
panes, yes, she was not kidding

1897
01:49:03,750 --> 01:49:04,590
when.
They.

1898
01:49:04,950 --> 01:49:06,950
She listen.
They spent the money, those told

1899
01:49:06,950 --> 01:49:07,670
me.
Build a house.

1900
01:49:07,670 --> 01:49:11,740
But they didn't say it had to be
a a crappy house, right?

1901
01:49:11,780 --> 01:49:13,860
I can still be booed.
Like I got a living here too.

1902
01:49:13,860 --> 01:49:17,180
Might as well look.
Just so sad to think of her

1903
01:49:17,180 --> 01:49:19,300
living in that big place.
All along, I know.

1904
01:49:19,460 --> 01:49:21,620
Really terrible.
I'm pretty sure she had like,

1905
01:49:21,620 --> 01:49:25,700
you know.
Servants, probably servants.

1906
01:49:25,700 --> 01:49:29,220
But still, she didn't have,
like, any boyfriend.

1907
01:49:29,220 --> 01:49:31,060
No family, nothing.
Yeah, family.

1908
01:49:31,460 --> 01:49:34,260
She.
Just lived in a big old

1909
01:49:34,260 --> 01:49:38,230
Victorian dress, but it spray
with a black thing over her eyes

1910
01:49:38,230 --> 01:49:39,750
all the time.
It's terrible.

1911
01:49:39,790 --> 01:49:41,750
It's so sad.
It's terrible.

1912
01:49:44,910 --> 01:49:47,910
So inside this beast.
Of a mansion there are.

1913
01:49:48,030 --> 01:49:51,590
Also, stairways that lead to
nowhere.

1914
01:49:51,790 --> 01:49:56,910
Yep, right into the roof rooms.
You can open the doors too.

1915
01:49:57,070 --> 01:49:59,790
But it just leads you to a brick
wall.

1916
01:50:00,510 --> 01:50:02,910
I like the one that's just a
straight up drop.

1917
01:50:02,950 --> 01:50:06,040
Yeah, yeah, they're trap doors
in.

1918
01:50:06,040 --> 01:50:10,680
Spy holes, of course.
Secret passageways in big rooms

1919
01:50:11,080 --> 01:50:13,480
with small rooms inside of them.
Okay.

1920
01:50:13,480 --> 01:50:16,800
So what if what if?
Oh my gosh, you could have a

1921
01:50:16,800 --> 01:50:22,280
slumber party there.
Yes.

1922
01:50:22,640 --> 01:50:26,920
I don't think they let people
sleep there because when Shama

1923
01:50:26,920 --> 01:50:31,680
Day and Ryan Bergueira went,
they only got to be there at

1924
01:50:31,680 --> 01:50:33,040
night.
They didn't sleep there.

1925
01:50:34,200 --> 01:50:35,200
I would.
So I don't know if they let you

1926
01:50:35,200 --> 01:50:37,480
sleep there, but I just.
Think that would be super fun?

1927
01:50:37,480 --> 01:50:39,760
That would be awesome.
I think because of how expensive

1928
01:50:39,760 --> 01:50:42,440
all the chandeliers and stuff
are, they wouldn't trust people

1929
01:50:42,440 --> 01:50:44,200
to stay there.
I mean, it makes sense normally.

1930
01:50:44,200 --> 01:50:46,200
Like when they let you stay at a
place, it's garbage.

1931
01:50:47,600 --> 01:50:49,640
It's very true.
Like all the old, you know?

1932
01:50:49,680 --> 01:50:54,600
Yes, sanitariums or trashed.
Sure, you can stay here.

1933
01:50:54,600 --> 01:50:56,240
They're overcoming with freaking
wilderness.

1934
01:50:56,240 --> 01:50:57,520
Why not?
You can stay here all night if

1935
01:50:57,520 --> 01:50:59,840
you want.
To fancy houses with Tiffany

1936
01:51:00,040 --> 01:51:02,280
chandeliers and windows.
You may not stay here.

1937
01:51:02,280 --> 01:51:03,880
You can do your ghost hunt and
get the hell out.

1938
01:51:06,120 --> 01:51:09,440
I'm sorry that.
Characterization is me, not the

1939
01:51:09,760 --> 01:51:14,040
Westchester Mystery House.
I'm sure they're very nice

1940
01:51:14,200 --> 01:51:18,030
people, so.
Like I said this.

1941
01:51:18,030 --> 01:51:19,950
The spirits would.
They, you know, they gave Sarah.

1942
01:51:19,950 --> 01:51:22,870
Her plans, Right.
And that's she got those from

1943
01:51:22,870 --> 01:51:24,350
her little seances.
Yeah, yeah.

1944
01:51:24,950 --> 01:51:30,790
But she would also add in.
These little additions like the

1945
01:51:31,830 --> 01:51:32,670
so that.
She could.

1946
01:51:33,150 --> 01:51:36,190
You know confuse the spirits
that were that was talking her

1947
01:51:36,230 --> 01:51:39,710
and you know they were out for
vengeance so you know they and

1948
01:51:39,710 --> 01:51:42,710
that's why it moved around like
she would build A room and then

1949
01:51:42,830 --> 01:51:45,040
destroy it.
There's just a lot of

1950
01:51:45,120 --> 01:51:48,200
construction going on, Ghost.
You thought this was a bathroom

1951
01:51:48,200 --> 01:51:54,120
psych brick wall on your face.
Even though ghosts can go

1952
01:51:54,120 --> 01:51:55,040
through.
But whatever.

1953
01:51:55,040 --> 01:51:59,000
Yeah, who cares?
She.

1954
01:51:59,000 --> 01:52:00,840
Really loved the number 13.
Right.

1955
01:52:01,360 --> 01:52:04,160
A lot of the things you see in
her in the house.

1956
01:52:04,160 --> 01:52:06,640
There there's a lot of 13
things, right?

1957
01:52:07,080 --> 01:52:09,280
I've heard that during the tour
they, like, encourage you to

1958
01:52:09,280 --> 01:52:11,720
count the stuff.
Yeah, like the stairs, there are

1959
01:52:11,720 --> 01:52:14,280
a lot of stair of stairways.
Or staircases.

1960
01:52:14,280 --> 01:52:17,440
They have 13 stairs.
The ones that I've I've seen

1961
01:52:17,440 --> 01:52:21,040
pictures of are like the long
stairs, which I find to be

1962
01:52:21,040 --> 01:52:23,000
annoying.
Like instead of it being a

1963
01:52:23,000 --> 01:52:27,360
normal step distance, yeah, it's
like a foot across or like 2

1964
01:52:27,360 --> 01:52:31,260
feet long.
And what is the point So you can

1965
01:52:31,260 --> 01:52:33,500
have more beats, more people
walking the stairs?

1966
01:52:33,500 --> 01:52:36,380
What's?
The point of a stairwell.

1967
01:52:36,380 --> 01:52:39,580
That's that.
Long it just has to be like

1968
01:52:39,580 --> 01:52:45,860
horizontal stairway goodness.
Art is also.

1969
01:52:45,860 --> 01:52:47,620
Like, really tight corridors
too.

1970
01:52:47,780 --> 01:52:53,260
Yeah, if you're counting.
There are also 13 bathrooms.

1971
01:52:54,100 --> 01:52:57,620
See.
Yeah, now why is she like was

1972
01:52:57,620 --> 01:53:00,350
her her liking of 13?
Cuz she liked it.

1973
01:53:00,510 --> 01:53:02,750
I think it's the same way.
Why I like 13 cuz it's just a

1974
01:53:02,750 --> 01:53:05,910
the creepy number.
That and it's just a nice.

1975
01:53:06,110 --> 01:53:08,390
It's a lucky number.
Too, sometimes it's already,

1976
01:53:08,430 --> 01:53:10,790
Look, it's hard to be lucky.
Well, yeah, depending on what

1977
01:53:10,790 --> 01:53:13,150
culture you're in.
Absolutely isn't like for an

1978
01:53:13,150 --> 01:53:16,030
unlucky number in like China.
Somewhere I actually meant to

1979
01:53:16,030 --> 01:53:16,910
make a tick.
Talk about that.

1980
01:53:16,990 --> 01:53:17,870
I forgot all about that.
God.

1981
01:53:17,870 --> 01:53:22,630
Damn it.
Anyway, so in either 19 oh. 6 or

1982
01:53:22,630 --> 01:53:25,110
1904.
I got different sources.

1983
01:53:25,110 --> 01:53:27,910
So there's an earthquake in
California.

1984
01:53:28,920 --> 01:53:31,520
Yeah, the big earthquake, yeah,
which damaged.

1985
01:53:31,520 --> 01:53:33,840
The house causing the top three
floors.

1986
01:53:33,840 --> 01:53:38,880
To collapse.
And at the end of it, they

1987
01:53:38,880 --> 01:53:40,560
weren't built, They weren't
rebuilt.

1988
01:53:40,640 --> 01:53:43,120
So that left the mansion with
only four stories.

1989
01:53:43,120 --> 01:53:44,920
That's the seven stories.
That's the big.

1990
01:53:45,000 --> 01:53:48,040
That's the San Francisco one
that like set San Francisco on

1991
01:53:48,040 --> 01:53:49,040
fire.
Yeah, that's that.

1992
01:53:49,040 --> 01:53:51,120
That's that big.
I guess it wait, I must add up

1993
01:53:51,160 --> 01:53:53,280
some pretty.
Serious reverberations of it.

1994
01:53:53,800 --> 01:53:55,760
Was that that one?
Well, that's the one that

1995
01:53:55,760 --> 01:53:59,530
happened in 19.
Okay then yes, that's just so I

1996
01:53:59,530 --> 01:54:01,890
was like there.
Was a big one in the early 1900s

1997
01:54:01,890 --> 01:54:07,050
that like, racked San Francisco.
Like everything fell down.

1998
01:54:07,090 --> 01:54:09,410
That's that one then.
OK, wow.

1999
01:54:09,770 --> 01:54:11,490
And.
What city is this one in?

2000
01:54:11,810 --> 01:54:15,570
I'm gonna say San Jose.
California.

2001
01:54:16,010 --> 01:54:21,730
OK, so San Francisco to San
Jose, How far away is that?

2002
01:54:24,490 --> 01:54:26,650
Come on.
Google tell me the mile would

2003
01:54:28,310 --> 01:54:30,310
that's 50 miles away.
Oh yeah, so.

2004
01:54:30,310 --> 01:54:31,670
Yeah, it definitely that's,
yeah.

2005
01:54:31,670 --> 01:54:34,230
I mean, it was like I said it's.
One of the worst California

2006
01:54:34,230 --> 01:54:37,390
earthquakes.
But to be able to knock down

2007
01:54:37,470 --> 01:54:41,470
buildings 55 miles away, that's
intense.

2008
01:54:41,630 --> 01:54:44,670
I mean, remember that we had an
earthquake, like, years.

2009
01:54:44,670 --> 01:54:46,230
And years ago, that was in
California.

2010
01:54:46,230 --> 01:54:48,310
But we fell all the way in
fucking Philadelphia.

2011
01:54:48,390 --> 01:54:51,350
Wait, was that really that?
No, it wasn't that one.

2012
01:54:51,350 --> 01:54:55,590
But when was it I was in?
School, right?

2013
01:54:55,710 --> 01:54:59,340
I was in school then.
Like Colonary Art School and

2014
01:55:00,620 --> 01:55:06,740
2010, 2011, I think it was there
was an earthquake in California.

2015
01:55:06,820 --> 01:55:10,180
You felt it all wait in
Philadelphia and because

2016
01:55:10,180 --> 01:55:12,260
everything was like shaking and
we were like, what the hell was?

2017
01:55:12,260 --> 01:55:13,860
That and.
Then they ended class early.

2018
01:55:13,860 --> 01:55:15,020
It was like it was an
earthquake.

2019
01:55:16,140 --> 01:55:19,140
Apparently it was on one of
those fault lines that, you

2020
01:55:19,180 --> 01:55:22,620
know, you could fill it, but I
was just really, I googled

2021
01:55:22,860 --> 01:55:25,500
California earthquake felt on
East Coast.

2022
01:55:25,580 --> 01:55:27,450
Yeah, and it.
Hmm.

2023
01:55:31,290 --> 01:55:32,650
Maybe I got the wrong
information.

2024
01:55:32,730 --> 01:55:36,450
Well, no, there was there.
Was an earthquake that happened

2025
01:55:36,450 --> 01:55:40,090
on the East Coast.
Yeah, because it broke the, the

2026
01:55:40,090 --> 01:55:43,890
giant obelisk in Washington,
It's, I think it's called the

2027
01:55:43,890 --> 01:55:46,490
Washington Monument.
It's, I know it's an obelisk.

2028
01:55:46,490 --> 01:55:48,810
It's an obelisk.
I listen.

2029
01:55:48,810 --> 01:55:52,810
I know certain words.
Here I am using 15th grade

2030
01:55:53,090 --> 01:55:55,250
words, but I can't remember the
name of the monument.

2031
01:55:55,410 --> 01:55:59,100
Yes.
Or is I think my 25?

2032
01:55:59,100 --> 01:56:01,140
Dollar words, but I'm forgetting
basic stuff.

2033
01:56:01,140 --> 01:56:03,060
But yeah, it's the Washington
Monument.

2034
01:56:03,060 --> 01:56:04,540
It cracked.
It's it's been cracked.

2035
01:56:04,540 --> 01:56:11,460
It was like the made.
Oh, that's like the. 2012. 2013,

2036
01:56:11,460 --> 01:56:14,180
around the time I remember,
because I was on the phone with

2037
01:56:14,180 --> 01:56:17,780
somebody and I was sitting in my
bed and the TV started shaking

2038
01:56:17,780 --> 01:56:21,940
and I I literally said to him on
the phone, is this an

2039
01:56:21,940 --> 01:56:25,520
earthquake?
And then, apparently, everyone

2040
01:56:25,520 --> 01:56:27,080
started.
Calling each other and the cell

2041
01:56:27,080 --> 01:56:30,360
phone towers got overloaded and
I couldn't talk to anybody for

2042
01:56:30,360 --> 01:56:33,000
like 15 minutes.
Yeah, and that was when I lived

2043
01:56:33,000 --> 01:56:34,480
in Philadelphia.
So that.

2044
01:56:34,480 --> 01:56:36,960
Sounds like I remember that one.
Is that the same one?

2045
01:56:37,000 --> 01:56:39,800
I know this happened in like
2010, 2011 so.

2046
01:56:40,560 --> 01:56:42,880
That's because that's when I was
in a Colony art school.

2047
01:56:42,920 --> 01:56:45,920
That's the only reason why.
I know we were there two, but we

2048
01:56:46,120 --> 01:56:47,560
in Philadelphia at the same
time?

2049
01:56:47,560 --> 01:56:50,160
Probably fun.
We didn't know each other.

2050
01:56:51,960 --> 01:56:53,490
Oh my goodness.
Anyway.

2051
01:56:53,530 --> 01:56:54,970
Back to the story.
I'm so.

2052
01:56:55,050 --> 01:56:57,170
Sorry yo, we are off of rails
tonight.

2053
01:56:57,930 --> 01:57:00,290
Goodness, the man is when we
start the podcast late.

2054
01:57:00,370 --> 01:57:02,010
This is.
True, late in the day, we're all

2055
01:57:02,010 --> 01:57:05,570
wound up.
So the mansion was showed.

2056
01:57:05,850 --> 01:57:09,650
Shortly after Sarah's death.
Like a couple months after she

2057
01:57:09,650 --> 01:57:16,930
died, the mansion was sold to
John and Main Brown.

2058
01:57:17,830 --> 01:57:22,390
Like in five months after her
death, John opened the house to

2059
01:57:22,390 --> 01:57:25,350
the public for tours.
I thought you were gonna tell me

2060
01:57:25,350 --> 01:57:26,830
that something bad happened to
him.

2061
01:57:27,070 --> 01:57:33,190
No, I was ready for it even.
Our boy Harry Houdini was there.

2062
01:57:33,190 --> 01:57:36,390
To take it, check it out because
he was on his spiritualism tour.

2063
01:57:38,110 --> 01:57:41,750
He was there to prove that there
were no ghosts, basically, that

2064
01:57:41,790 --> 01:57:45,070
the mediums were bullshit.
Basically, he was, you know, he

2065
01:57:45,070 --> 01:57:47,710
was there to expose.
Spiritualism for the fraud it

2066
01:57:47,710 --> 01:57:50,350
was, anyway.
He didn't know what to make of

2067
01:57:50,350 --> 01:57:55,630
the house, and like he walked
away with like more.

2068
01:57:55,630 --> 01:57:58,630
Questions than answer.
Because it was just like a weird

2069
01:57:58,630 --> 01:58:01,310
ass house to him.
And he gave it the name.

2070
01:58:01,790 --> 01:58:04,270
The Winchester Mystery House.
Really.

2071
01:58:04,270 --> 01:58:05,070
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.

2072
01:58:05,350 --> 01:58:07,550
What did he He gave it that
moniker.

2073
01:58:08,790 --> 01:58:10,150
Wow.
I never knew sorry.

2074
01:58:10,150 --> 01:58:13,670
And then went with that Harry.
Houdini.

2075
01:58:14,270 --> 01:58:16,710
That's for boy, that is.
My boy.

2076
01:58:17,750 --> 01:58:23,950
God damn it.
That was just a personal joke

2077
01:58:23,950 --> 01:58:28,030
between us and Hams.
That's pretty much it so.

2078
01:58:28,870 --> 01:58:30,630
Over the years since.
Since the.

2079
01:58:30,630 --> 01:58:35,460
Mansion became an attraction.
Visitors and staff have

2080
01:58:35,500 --> 01:58:37,460
reported.
Encounters.

2081
01:58:38,300 --> 01:58:41,180
Yes, like footsteps when no
one's in there in the room.

2082
01:58:42,020 --> 01:58:47,980
Strange voices, doors banging,
strange lights, doorknobs

2083
01:58:47,980 --> 01:58:51,380
turning by themselves just
playing creepy stuff.

2084
01:58:51,980 --> 01:58:54,620
The worst part about like a door
banging, like here, small

2085
01:58:54,620 --> 01:58:57,220
apartment, The door closes and
I'm like, Yup, there you go,

2086
01:58:57,220 --> 01:58:59,260
that's the ghost.
You're in that place.

2087
01:58:59,590 --> 01:59:02,310
What door is banging?
What direction do I even go

2088
01:59:02,310 --> 01:59:03,630
towards?
You just let it go.

2089
01:59:03,630 --> 01:59:05,470
You gotta just let it go.
Yeah, imagine it, Echo.

2090
01:59:05,510 --> 01:59:07,470
You just gotta.
Let it go.

2091
01:59:07,870 --> 01:59:10,030
I imagine being the.
Security guard there would be

2092
01:59:10,030 --> 01:59:13,990
rough, yeah.
But you have to have one, yeah.

2093
01:59:14,310 --> 01:59:20,070
True, this is also a great.
Place for mediums or psychics to

2094
01:59:20,070 --> 01:59:24,110
come.
Goodness gracious, gotcha.

2095
01:59:24,310 --> 01:59:26,950
Yeah, psychics to come and put
their two cents in.

2096
01:59:27,980 --> 01:59:30,940
Test it out.
Yeah, I'm sure they all

2097
01:59:31,140 --> 01:59:32,660
experience.
Sarah Winchester.

2098
01:59:32,700 --> 01:59:35,580
Ohh, I'm sure they do.
Everyone talks to Sarah.

2099
01:59:36,980 --> 01:59:39,740
They you know what my hope is.
I hope she.

2100
01:59:39,740 --> 01:59:43,660
Passed like I hope she passed on
to whatever ohh I got you

2101
01:59:44,060 --> 01:59:47,660
afterlife that there is and she.
Really isn't there at her house?

2102
01:59:47,820 --> 01:59:51,460
Just walking around sad.
Yeah, 100 years later.

2103
01:59:51,660 --> 01:59:54,740
Goodness.
But they have said.

2104
01:59:54,740 --> 01:59:58,520
That there are.
Spirits there at the house, and

2105
01:59:59,040 --> 02:00:02,160
one in particular is Sarah
Winchester.

2106
02:00:02,840 --> 02:00:06,880
I hope not.
The Hall of Fires.

2107
02:00:06,880 --> 02:00:09,240
Is a good spot.
To visit if you want to

2108
02:00:09,240 --> 02:00:13,960
experience something paranormal
named for all the fireplaces in

2109
02:00:13,960 --> 02:00:15,120
it, right?
Okay.

2110
02:00:15,160 --> 02:00:19,200
I have heard of that before, so
a man was in the room helping

2111
02:00:19,200 --> 02:00:21,240
with.
The renovations or to restore it

2112
02:00:21,800 --> 02:00:25,000
when he feels a tap on his
shoulder turns around?

2113
02:00:25,620 --> 02:00:28,020
No one's there.
He's like, huh, weird.

2114
02:00:28,340 --> 02:00:32,500
Turns back around to go back to
work and he feels this like hand

2115
02:00:33,700 --> 02:00:38,580
on on his back was pushing him
like very hard into his back and

2116
02:00:38,580 --> 02:00:41,740
then he's just like, you know
what?

2117
02:00:42,940 --> 02:00:45,100
I think they need help in.
That other room, so.

2118
02:00:45,100 --> 02:00:46,700
I'm just gonna go down.
The hall or.

2119
02:00:46,740 --> 02:00:48,580
I mean, he did exactly what the
ghost wanted.

2120
02:00:48,580 --> 02:00:55,260
The ghost was like, get out.
There's an old worker there.

2121
02:00:55,850 --> 02:00:58,530
His name is Clyde and he's a
ghost.

2122
02:00:59,290 --> 02:01:01,810
And he hangs out in the
basement, right?

2123
02:01:01,850 --> 02:01:07,410
That is where Ryan and Shane
both did their little solo ghost

2124
02:01:07,490 --> 02:01:08,210
thing.
Ooh.

2125
02:01:10,210 --> 02:01:16,250
In the basement, so.
This mansion is.

2126
02:01:16,290 --> 02:01:22,610
Open for tours this year.
I'm saying yeah, like I could go

2127
02:01:22,610 --> 02:01:26,060
to San.
Jose, they have it.

2128
02:01:26,060 --> 02:01:30,060
Deviates a lot.
From when it was like just

2129
02:01:30,260 --> 02:01:34,180
giving tours about it, it like
nowadays they have axe throwing

2130
02:01:34,580 --> 02:01:37,340
at the at the table.
Oh no, listen, axe throwing was

2131
02:01:37,380 --> 02:01:40,220
awesome.
There's a freaking Harry Houdini

2132
02:01:40,220 --> 02:01:42,420
escape room theme.
Thing going on there.

2133
02:01:42,420 --> 02:01:43,940
So I mean, they gotta make their
money.

2134
02:01:44,660 --> 02:01:48,780
Yeah, like it's been like it's
become a lot more.

2135
02:01:48,780 --> 02:01:51,290
Than a spooky.
Insanely built house.

2136
02:01:51,290 --> 02:01:54,570
It's just like it's actually
like an attraction now for

2137
02:01:54,610 --> 02:01:58,970
people to go to and if they
wanna do, I just wanna see the

2138
02:01:59,010 --> 02:02:00,370
architecture.
Yeah, I just wanna.

2139
02:02:01,490 --> 02:02:02,930
Also, she had a thing for
Spider.

2140
02:02:02,930 --> 02:02:07,530
Webs and a lot of if you go
there and look, a lot of the

2141
02:02:07,530 --> 02:02:10,210
windows, there's a lot of spider
web designs.

2142
02:02:10,770 --> 02:02:15,410
Cool as well.
But you have a kindred spirit.

2143
02:02:15,450 --> 02:02:19,870
I know, right?
Spiders. #13 Harry Houdini came

2144
02:02:19,870 --> 02:02:21,390
to my house.
Not really.

2145
02:02:21,390 --> 02:02:25,430
I wish.
But you can.

2146
02:02:25,430 --> 02:02:27,030
Go there and pretend to be Sarah
Winchester.

2147
02:02:27,030 --> 02:02:30,030
There you go, Harry.
What are you?

2148
02:02:30,030 --> 02:02:32,390
Talking about Ghost, no.
Ghost anyway.

2149
02:02:33,190 --> 02:02:37,510
That's what I got today.
I like that one.

2150
02:02:38,350 --> 02:02:41,320
Goodness, I love the I I would.
Love to visit?

2151
02:02:41,320 --> 02:02:42,720
It's still on my list of places
to go.

2152
02:02:42,800 --> 02:02:45,840
Yeah, yeah, absolutely that and
even even going to.

2153
02:02:45,840 --> 02:02:48,400
California to visit Mr. Or is it
California?

2154
02:02:48,400 --> 02:02:50,720
Is it in Las Vegas?
Which?

2155
02:02:50,720 --> 02:02:54,040
What?
The mansion?

2156
02:02:54,240 --> 02:02:58,520
Not to Mansion Museum by.
Oh, you mean Zach Bagan's

2157
02:02:58,520 --> 02:02:59,880
museum?
Yeah, that museum.

2158
02:02:59,880 --> 02:03:01,880
It's in Vegas.
OK.

2159
02:03:01,880 --> 02:03:04,080
I go to Vegas one day.
You go and visit, I guess.

2160
02:03:04,680 --> 02:03:06,400
Just to see.
I don't want to see the dolls

2161
02:03:06,400 --> 02:03:08,440
there and then look at his
stupid.

2162
02:03:09,650 --> 02:03:11,610
Stuff and not has like the
mirrors and.

2163
02:03:11,610 --> 02:03:15,530
Stuff he has the.
Dibic box there too, I thought.

2164
02:03:15,530 --> 02:03:18,210
He only got to wait.
I think it's there.

2165
02:03:19,050 --> 02:03:22,970
I'm pretty sure it's there.
I know that he got to open the

2166
02:03:22,970 --> 02:03:24,570
dibic box, which you're not
supposed to do.

2167
02:03:24,570 --> 02:03:27,410
Why would you do?
But I thought the man who owned.

2168
02:03:27,410 --> 02:03:31,410
It keeps it secure like he
buries.

2169
02:03:31,410 --> 02:03:34,170
It like he has not taken it out.
I'm not sure.

2170
02:03:34,210 --> 02:03:37,880
I think I did hear that.
It was either that or something

2171
02:03:37,880 --> 02:03:40,000
that he had there.
It might have been like an

2172
02:03:40,000 --> 02:03:42,120
exhibit for a short amount of
time, yeah.

2173
02:03:44,160 --> 02:03:45,480
But.
I had to look into that.

2174
02:03:45,480 --> 02:03:49,880
Anyway, thank you guys.
For listening this week, if you

2175
02:03:49,880 --> 02:03:53,040
wanted to follow this on
Socials, you got Britney

2176
02:03:53,240 --> 02:03:56,720
Podcast.
I'm on TikTok and I am Creeps

2177
02:03:56,720 --> 02:03:57,960
for Brian.
I've been trying to post more

2178
02:03:57,960 --> 02:03:59,800
stuff on there.
So yeah, check it out.

2179
02:03:59,800 --> 02:04:01,920
I got more shit, I got what is
it?

2180
02:04:02,080 --> 02:04:05,820
What am I doing?
Scripted or urban legends in

2181
02:04:05,820 --> 02:04:07,860
your state.
So yeah, that's cool.

2182
02:04:08,540 --> 02:04:10,820
And most of our socials you can.
Find the links to.

2183
02:04:10,820 --> 02:04:14,420
On our website
wentkillersgotcaught.com Yes,

2184
02:04:14,780 --> 02:04:17,580
yes and if you listened this.
Whole 2 hours.

2185
02:04:17,580 --> 02:04:19,540
Thank you so much.
We do appreciate it.