Episode 19. Andrea Yates: Strangely Sympathetic and Local Legends

0:20 Hey everybody. Its serial killer country. My name is Brittany. Ransom, my name is Brian jr. And this is what Killers get caught. A podcast devoted to deep dives into the lives and psyches The Killers. We love to learn about each week, Brian. And I find a True Crime Story that resonated with us and then I discussed one, well-known or lesser known killer, I go deeper into their childhood lives methodology, and most importantly how and why they got caught and then we get a little spooky, we learned something about Cryptids or the supernatural. Keep it kind of light after the lately very depressing stories that I've been talking about Yes.

1:03 Yeah, that's really the general consistency of things lately and it's not going to change tonight. If you've clicked on this podcast, you already know what this is about. Yeah, we're sorry. Yeah, it's it's heavy but uh I guess there's sort of a reasoning that goes along with it. I don't don't you dare. Don't you dare that's have a greater conversational situation but before we even get into the subject of tonight's podcast, let's instead talk about this week in True Crime. Something really cool was not cool. It's such a weird thing when stuff like this happens So, I don't know if you know who Fred and rosemary West are Brian. No, I did, Kanye West's parents and now they were a killer couple from the UK who were particularly horrible to young girls, including some of their own children. But in the 1960s, there was a girl who suspected of being one of their victims and she has been missing since 68 and they've never been able to find it Fred West, they think that Fred Killed her because he also did some gross stuff separate from his wife sometimes they work together. Sometimes I work separate very of course, Ian Brady Myra. Hey yeah.

2:29 Funny enough the to both Myra and rosemary were in the same prison. And there were rumors that they were well robbers. Yeah, yeah. And also enemies. So yeah, this is the same woman. Well, police Nice. Okay, so it's it's the city in Gloucester, Gloucester Gloucester UK and they think that they have found the bones of one of his victims. Okay. Who has been missing since 1968 like all his victims were young women?

3:09 They both had very weird fixations on brutalizing women in many different ways Rape torture bondage, you name it. They were typically buried in the cellar of their home and Glock is Stir which that was referred to in the media. As like the House of Horrors. They were charged in 1994 and Fred hung himself while he was in prison in 1995, to avoid being charged with the nine women who were discovered on their property. Of course. Yeah. But yeah. So that's the news that's like This is today. So they're thinking it might be her body. They think it might be her body May 17 21 like this is happening this week. Nice.

3:55 This is like pipe quite possibly. I'm like the first time but yeah. They have some ground-penetrating cameras and they appear to have discovered this like dark blue material that they think matched the coat of her name was Mary bastogne. She was 15 when she went missing. Oh, and yeah. This is 39. Well, it's this comes days after this, like police force of like 39, different cops, led by a team of archaeologists began. Analyzing the basement of a cafe and God caster, which is about half a mile from the West's house.

4:39 And essentially, Like West worked there when it was being built. So they think that he might have stored that's at this point. They're like, well, maybe some of the bodies, we haven't been able to find from him, are ones that he might have buried at some of the locations where he worked right when he was a builder. And that's not exactly something crazy. Because there was a man in California who they think buried bodies under highways, that he worked on in the 70s and That California has discussed the idea of trying to find those bodies but also that the costs but is so prohibitive that they might just leave them there. So, I mean, this isn't entirely in heard of, but yeah, they had cameras that have seen like a navy blue coat that she was wearing and they definitely think that they're seeing human bones there.

5:32 So I mean, they're at this point. Now they're going to be looking at doing like a major excavation right? Yeah. But yeah. And of course, his wife is still, of course, in jail. Yeah. She's she's only 67. So she got plenty of years to be in prison and be dealing with the crimes that she committed and yeah, that's good. But yeah, it's like I was really excited when that popped up on my feet today I was like oh crap Serial killer do is we have it had some new serial, killer news and months. It's gonna be on every podcast that any of you listen to this week. That's how like hype most of us are going to be about But what did you come across this week? Okay, let me ask you a question.

6:23 Sure. So for example, How would, how would you go about getting followers or you have followers on your Tick? Tock, like, if like, if you had to go out and like, I don't know, like, if you were like low on views and follows, how would you Brittany? Go out and find followers for Tick-Tock. I, I wouldn't go out and invite Tic-Tac followers because I would be, I'm strangely shy in person. You don't say so, The only thing I know how to do is what I do right now which is make daily content and hope hope somebody likes it. Okay?

7:10 Okay. Well, there is a woman in Florida, Miami who posed as a student to promote her Instagram page. If you ain't saw this, somebody posted this on Twitter and it showed up in our feet of like People who we follow on Twitter, like one of those crime news aggregate blog thing. Yeah, I didn't click on it. Please tell me more about this lady. All right. So apparently she's 28 years old and she wanted to promote her Instagram page and she attempted to blend in with students at a Miami area high school. Wasn't there? A Drew Barrymore movie where she went back to the high school? Yeah she was a reporter was reporter. Yeah but still and everything kiss. We're having right?

7:59 Right. That's it. That's get something like that, done. Like that with this. Good enough? Yeah. But yeah, this happened. I guess, I last Monday. Wow, so yeah, sure. It landed her in jail. So she's facing charges of burglary and it fearing with a school function and resisting arrest without violence. So let me read this. So she started hitting at her name, is who I can't pronounce that last name. Goodness gracious. Oh, it's her name is Audrey. Francisco! Whitney. Yeah, I'm going with that.

8:42 Yes. Uh-huh. So apparently she started handing out pantless at you know, for her Instagram. Okay. You can't do that. That's not how you. Yes, not cool. Can you imagine being like, what is the equivalent of when we were in high school of the person who hands Pamphlets about their Instagram recruiters, these look like that. It's even worse because that's a hey, sign up for potentially die for college. Yeah, no I'm trying to think of like what would have been equally as uncool as handing out a pamphlet for your social media. Oh, putting up flyers and I feel like, yeah. A flyer for a party. Yeah. At a high school. That would have been like cringy.

9:22 Let me tell you for like, we had this one. Like and Senior year, right? Okay. So seeing you here, I'm just like comedian now. Okay, this is my Persona. I've taken along because I'm funny as guy anyway, I think you're funny. Oh, my one teacher, she suggested that I like start an improv group of people. So I put up flyers for like improv, okay. That's different cause that's like a school function if our school functions but can you imagine was like there's gonna be a rager at Brian's house. Here's a flyer like Say those kinds of words and no, no, I just pulled like a total like 80s phrase, out of nowhere.

10:03 I'm not that old y'all. We didn't have ragers but I'm just saying that's how the equivalent of leg you you handing someone a flyer to come to your party tomorrow? Yeah. It feels awkward like like hey come to my party. Hey come to my party. He's like listen you can come don't tell anybody else and then of course everybody shows up because no one could keep a secret in high school. This is how that goes, yeah, sure trip. But yeah, she snuck on the campus at 8:30 a.m. she had a black backpack, and she carried a skateboard. She walking the whole shoe recording herself as she was doing this.

10:44 She had a black backpack. If she cares game for, she act like a total like I guess that's what she taught high schoolers. I don't, how old is she 28 28? Come on now. No, no, no. Even when that cause that's only a couple years younger than Us and like I don't nobody was wearing not even when we were Highschool. No, nobody was you. I mean okay. Skateboard. Yes, very 90s. Like, okay, when we were in school, people dress like skaters. Yeah, but they didn't like skate through the hallways of the school. That's very like movie 90s movies Centric. But like, yeah, sure. Like people wore like skater clothes, like, one of my co-workers, got his like, very cool like skater Vibes. Like, I'm like, this is obviously, like, who he is outside of work and I'm a, you know, Bryant. I'm a giant fruit Pop-Tart of a person. This is Lisa.

11:32 It like, you know, yet Lisa Frank. These are frankly staff Rankin, Miss frazil. That's really what I work with as you so you know like we all have little bits of that like from our high school identities, you do who we are now. But like I don't think even people who were skateboarders like Tony Hawk. He is a skateboarder, he's not like oh let me walk through this area with my board on my arm like it. But yeah. So apparently let's see. What is this? A school security tracked her down? As she wandered hallways while students were in their classrooms and she was heading towards the registration office but she did not enter instead she continued walking through the hallways talking to students news outlets reported. So she never went to any classes. No, no, of course not.

12:23 You have to act like you're actually in high school You're trying to act like you're in high school. 28. Come on now. I'm free. I mean she could probably like at 18 years old. I need to I need to know what she looks like. Now I don't think there's a picture of her. I could have sworn. It was a picture. Okay, not on this one. I got this one off the Associated. Press press. But as she kept walking security officers, still try to catch up with her. You know, that's bad. That's like it's terrible because Like that's shorter. I don't know. Like nowadays, you know, what? School shooters and stuff like that. You can't just be like I have like little logins. Exact, thanks to open doors, like you can't just be walking in the schools like that. Like, that's not okay.

13:05 What'd she look like you could give me a face. She looks like a mother of three. Oh, come on. Yeah, the guy high school student Advocate teenager. Come on. Oh my god. Listen and I get it. Hispanic and black people aged very well. But, huh? Honey, you look like you have at least one or two babies. Yeah. Apparently the school system is going through. They're going to be reviewing how she got into the school. She got onto the property, you know, and was able to evade security settings brand, they don't they don't run. They just kind of jump my God. It but yeah, it was just like it's hilarious. And then finally authorities tracked, her down for her Instagram page.

13:50 Interested her of Monday last Monday at her house. Oh man. So she got away from the security officers in school but she got she went home and then he found her anyway through her Instagram that she. You know, she was trying to promote. I want to see her Instagram. I bet it's Wack. He kind of look up her face, I don't know. I bet you if I pulled this up on Reddit, somebody found her over. I think about it now she probably has like a million followers. I feel like she probably has a bunch of Of gems ears and her comment roast in her. Yeah. Probably. They just roast all of us. I mean, that's like she did have a side part though. Oh she does see we have a side. Part was a side parting. No, it was.

14:33 My parts are bad and so are skinny jeans. Damn her damn Millennials. Then our what you gonna do? Let us live our lives. I'm good. That's a thing. People are like, I'm like, this is our I hate to say and that situation that happened with Millennials versus Zoomers. It was people were like side parts of skinny jeans. I'm like, this seems like a thing that like, I hate to say it this way, but it seems like a thing that like, the white people are arguing about because amongst like, the minority community. No one's like trash talking like Zoomers. Know, we're more. Like, I like your style.

15:13 Pretty cool. Yeah, your hair's dope like you didn't he like it's all very like Good Vibes in our community. I don't know why. I like all the white Zoomers and Millennials are fighting right now. Y'all need to stop. Oh no. I know. I know those gen Z kids. They do love my hair now so you have magnificent hair. I do have wonderful beautiful hair. It's a dollar to touch by the way, you better charge one. That's right, no paid a mick. Pandemic fee, there you go. Five extra dollars. Oh my God. When Killers get caught is sponsored by the magic class Boutique.

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17:31 But so this happened when I was probably this would have been before I started High School. Okay. This sort of been like spring of a, the grade for me, you say I you mean we don't know. I wasn't sure if I could remember. I was like technically a year ahead. And because I have a late birthday. Dear me? Yes. Yes. It's a year of school but we're like Danny of the same age. Yeah, but yeah. So I'm just going to, I'm going to set a stage And I'll go into more about these people. Okay? So it was approximately 10 a.m. June 20th 2001, A Man, by the name of Rusty Gates.

18:11 Gets a phone call from his wife, he'd only been at work for about an hour. She just said, you need to come home confused. He was just like what's going on and she's like, you need to come home, it's time, I did it. He knew that she'd been struggling recently and dealing with her depression and so he asked her again, what's wrong? And she said it's the children. And the NASA engineer realized something was very wrong. And he said, which one and which Andrea Yates responded? All of them. Oh, when he reached his house, 15 minutes later, they were ambulances. And police cars at his home in Houston, Texas. A Time article said that when he wasn't allowed into the house, he went to the back door and screamed. How could you do this?

19:08 Collapse in the yard and the fetal position pounding, the ground as his wife. Andrea Yates was led away in handcuffs today. I am discussing a crime. Like I said, I didn't happen that long ago for both you and I the case surrounding Andrea Gates and the murder of her five children on June 20th, 2001. It was a bit of a landmark case and trial surrounding the discussion of real. Mental health issues for mothers in a state known to Be very aggressive in handling it handing out Capital sentences for murder but like every week before I discuss the crime and inevitably the lengthy and convoluted trial, let's just talk about Andrea Yates and who she was before this day.

20:02 I found her strangely sympathetic and I didn't expect to you, okay? I heard she's born Andrea Pia. Kennedy on July 2nd, 1964 and Hallsville Texas. She was born to German immigrant kuta, jutta, Karen Koller and Andrew and Mike. Kennedy who is second generation Irish that you had five children and Andrea was their youngest They were a devout Catholic Family and Andrea was very active in church and Charities. As a young child, she was incredibly considered to be very, very smart. But her troubles with her mental health began, rather Young Some people speculate that it's kind of like what happens with a lot of teenagers. You're very smart driven, super-active. You feel this pressure to be perfect? She was in like the National Honor Society. She graduated from high school as for valedictorian and of course, doing really knows when you're struggling with that. Kind of stuff that behind that like perfect facade is somebody who's struggling to look perfect and also be perfect. Right?

21:16 Right. So she did struggle with both bulimia and depression and actually was suicidal. When she was in high school, she did not receive treatment for any of these issues while she was a child and very much endured a lot. a lot of these things in silence, I can't say that at that time in our history that there would have been a whole lot of resources for her either. No. After High School, she applied to the University of Houston to become a nurse, perhaps kind of free from some of that parental stress. She didn't struggle as much with her mental health in college.

21:56 She finished her program and just two years and accepted a job at the MD Anderson Cancer, Center caring for cancer patients. It was part of the medical facility, that was attached to her school and she would work there her entire career as a nurse from 1986 to 1994. As somebody who had really serious body image issue, she didn't really date a whole lot but she met her future, husband, Rusty Gates, and the summer of 1989, she was swimming at the pool in her apartment complex and he saw her and liked her as many young men are want to do of course. Yes, they move it together. Fairly shortly after that, a couple months later, and Rusty. Said that his name is Russell, but I will continue to call him Rusty as they do.

22:44 And all of the books that I read on this, He said that she was always very uncomfortable being naked around him, she would get dressed and undressed in the closet and she never seemed to enjoy sex. Some people say that this is due to her Catholic upbringing and you know, extremely religious families can be very overbearing when it comes to young women. Sexualities other people have brought up that this could also be a symptom of mental illness. That was also overlooked rather early in her. I guess her young, adult life personally, I can't imagine feeling very sexy when your boyfriend is into the religious stuff that Rusty was in two.

23:28 And I know I need to go into this because Shapes who this woman becomes so Rusty. Was a big follower of this preacher named Michael warneke who was a traveling preacher. That was big into like the fire and brimstone, you know? And of course like it's hard to know with all the different preachers like this in the 80s and 90s. Like this was a big deal for a long time. They were like be on TV on Sunday and those big mega churches. Those kinds of people in the freaking, like, turd something. Does mega church creators. I don't think we're in a key created like a mega church but he did have the same kind of fundamental most views.

24:09 So Michael and Rusty met during the 80s and the two started writing letters back and forth to each other and they kind of became sort of religious friends. And we're Nicky had some very horrible views about women. He preached that women were evil witches and they were born evil because of Eve that women shouldn't educate themselves. They should never work outside of the home and should never use birth control. Wives should submit to their husbands fully. And you know that old adage we were taught as kids, children should be seen and not heard totally believe in that too. Uh-huh. And if you needed to keep your child silent.

24:50 Absolutely. You know what's that Fraser? You don't spare the rod spoil the child. Yeah that that was part of his ideology to. Yeah. Opens. So Rusty comes into this relationship with this intense fundamentalist, Christian Vibe and introduces Andrea to it. And strangely enough, the two of them spend like a lot of their free time just studying the Bible and praying when they live together. Rusty, was very serious about his religion, his relationship with Andrea and so he actually introduced her to warneke weirdly enough. We're in a key, gave them solid advice and was like, you shouldn't get married quickly, which was apparently, a lot of the advice he gave to young couples, he met on college campuses, which is so wild because I was, like, here's this, And with this horrible crazy, like religious message, given actual dollops of good advice here and there.

25:47 Yeah, like know, when you are 22, you definitely probably shouldn't get married. No, don't do it Andrea. And Rusty, did not take the preachers advice and instead it got married. Two years later. April 17th 1983. Well doing it very quickly, they waited two years for them. I think this was probably, as I They waited as long as they possibly could, as long as they want, yeah, they're like this. Give us some time, okay. Okay, you good. Yeah, they were, like, you know, he's like, wait, longer they were, like, no, we had this. We waited long enough to years is long enough who enter our lives to be together. Come on now. But, you know, what's so funny? I went to a Catholic High School and I distinctly have a very solid memory of one of my religion classes. I think it was sophomore year for some reason. My one religion teacher like went off on a rant about how you shouldn't, just get married to have sex. And one of the boys in my class raised his hand and he was just like, then, why get married.

26:45 Ha ha ha and mind you. We were 15 and 16 years old. So, of course, in a 15 and 16 roll brain, that makes sense. But I have a friend who's very religious and she goes on like Christian Mingle and stuff. And there are a lot of people with this mindset, like I just have to get married so I can just start having sex. Yeah, because it's not. Okay for me to do it outside of that. So like maybe that was part. Out of this to like why they were rushing and why he was telling so many of his followers, like, don't rush into this, they'll be plenty of time for you, do all the things you want to do in your life and then, you know, people are just like, well, I can't do what I want, ha ha ha, because God, what was it? Let's be because, yeah, I'll be a sinner and go to hell.

27:28 Oh, no. Because like, they literally told their wedding guests that they wanted as many babies as nature would allow season. That's order thinking about, that's all they were thinking of give me. That's why I said that, of course, now, married to Rusty, Andrea, quits her job as a nurse, and she gets immediately pregnant with their son. Noah, he was born February 1994 and almost immediately after his birth, Andrea begins, having visions of knives and stabbing her loved ones. She also heard voices but she kept this to herself, Down to one income, they have to move from their nice four-bedroom house in Houston to a trailer in Seminole, Florida for a temp job, that Rusty took and like this is the, the not smartness of this whole concept of the man needs to be the provider.

28:19 Exactly. I absolutely support the idea that a man as a provider. If he's got the job to provide for this family. Exactly. And I'm just like, you going to make me, give up my job and now we broke. This is terrible. And as soon as you like it don't have kids. Thank you. All right, you got all this money. You got to spend on this now but either way. Exactly, from four bedroom to a trailer. Come on. I mean it's nothing wrong. Trailers at all because there's some nice. That's a nice one. Oh, hell yeah. I know leopard trailers are nicer than what I live in but now I Like they move into this really actually, from what I understand the trailer was smaller than the apartment. We are in right now.

28:59 Oh damn. And this apartment is 410 square feet and it's a studio. Oh, so the one that you're in right now, we're yeah. There's was 350. That that trailer and she had two more babies. No. Yes, she did. Two more sense. I December of 1995. John was born, and then September of 1887 Paul was born, so that's Mom. A toddler. A baby and a newborn and Dad and an apartment smaller than where we are right now, they all sleep in the same bed, I've had one person, stay the night with me over the like weekend here and it's cramped. Like you like one more than one day and all of a sudden, I'm like, you need to go home.

29:56 I just can't imagine two adults and three kids in this space. No, just imagine having to sleep in the same bed, kids kicking your ribs and your backing like smacking you in the face when you're trying to sleep. What I live with my sister, I used to watch like we work different shifts. So I work during the day and she worked at night and her son, I would like sleep, I would like lay in bed next to him. I could never sleep comfortably. You want this baby next to me? I was convinced. He was going to fall out the Ed. I was going roll over him and kill him. Like something was going to happen, that's bad. It was constantly me like nodding off for a couple minutes and then waking up and looking at them. And then fall back asleep and waking up at looking. It was the most unknown like restful sleep of my life watching. This Nike six-month-old baby, they were hurt. You believe me and he was hot, he's always hot. I really have any would somehow may. I should take up like half of a full size bed. Yeah, are so small.

30:55 What is wrong with you? Yeah, that's what they do. But back on to Andrea and Rusty, they kept up with the war in a key family through letters and videos. Um, and for some reason, Michael Wernicke kept diagnosing Andrea as evil and telling her that her life was cursed. I really couldn't find a reason for this and like I went through a lot of sources. I've heard two different books for this but then you say you said, well women are evil and he did say all women are even, but like I felt like it was almost like Like personal. like I can only imagine what kind of effect this must have been having on Andrea because Michael is like the leader of this little church and he set himself up to be like the voice of God and she's getting constant messages from the voice of God saying that God hates you like So, 98 the gates family visits the war in a keys in Miami, because Michaels gonna sell his motor home. And by motor home, I mean, a Greyhound bus that he converted into a little apartment to travel across the country and preach from.

32:04 They stay there for about a week and during that time, Michael and Rusty got into a fight in another stunning bit of wisdom. Michael said that Rusty was neglecting his family for his Year and sacrificing his wife and children. Hmm, Rusty. Did not agree that leaving Andrea with a newborn toddler and preschool or every day in a tiny house. Was it all bad? No, not at all and Rusty. Michael kind of stopped being friendly after this, russki Rusty, like talked about this later on and like said that they like drifted apart, but it seems like he wasn't open to even a religious figure telling him that he need to be a better husband and father.

32:50 Oh my God. So you weren't trying to change. You just want to have kids and just keep doing what you're doing. Basically after they bought the mobile home, they moved back to Houston to put it, simply Andrea was overwhelmed. She had to home-school the oldest boy. Breastfeed keep a toddler occupied feed. Her family, wash cloth diapers to save money. She was also caring for her own father who had Alzheimer's Oh no. Friends of their family of the family. Tried to tell Rusty. This is too much for one person to handle, but he wouldn't listen and he was just like, this is Andrews job as a wife and a mother. Well yeah, they were still following the Wernicke's church and Andrea was still receiving guidance from them that she need to beat her children more often. And that, like, normal child behavior was disrespectful. They also were consistently telling her that like not hitting her kids.

33:48 Was damning them to Hell. Well then I guess my kids are going to have right Andrea had therefore child Luca February of 1989. When Luke was four months old and recalled Rusty and was just like I can't take this when Rusty got home. She was sitting in the corner like in an almost catatonic State she'd been chewing on her fingers for hours. Rusty was like you know we should do we're gonna take a nice family walk on the beach. Beach, that'll fix, you know and um, seeing as Rusty's, not at all, a mental health, professional the next day, she attempted to kill herself for the first time she was admitted to hospice. She, I think she tried to use her father's medicine to have an overdose.

34:34 She was admitted to a hospital and prescribed antidepressants. This was the first time in her life that she was diagnosed with major depressive disorder, the whole Hospital wanted to hold her longer to see if the meds were going to have some help. But unfortunately, as anybody, who has been on where they ssris, I think it's what their official term is for them, but there are serotonin receptor Inhibitors. I think called ssris these take weeks to take effect. Oh, in fact, one of the things I tell you, when you're on them because I also have major depressive disorder. They ask like my doctors would ask, like, repeatedly are you feeling suicidal? Here's why, because you're inside a really dark place and you get this medication and it starts working on your brain, right?

35:24 But it takes such a long time to pull you out and like essentially, like kind of give your brain the serotonin that it's needing, right? That sometimes you only feel like sort of good, you don't feel like real good yet but you feel like good enough that if you are suicidal you might decide to actually do it. Oh yes. You've got enough motivation. Now to hurt. Yourself, but not enough motivation to go to work or clean. Your house will be motivations you not doing in this. It's one of the things that is, it's part of the warnings. So that repeatedly, they were like, you have more energy now, don't you Brittany? And I was like, yes, you're not see, they were like constantly checking with me, so then they should have done here.

36:12 Because they sent her home because her insurance didn't cover any more inpatient days, some of that's going to be a consistent thing that pops up at This Woman's life insurance. But her insurance limiting, the amount of care she can access, lovely. She did briefly visit with another doctor who put her on an anti-psychotic drug. But the Warren Equis believe that medicine and drugs were the tool of the devil. So she flushed them come on before. She could even really know whether this was going to help her. Oh my God, things got worse for Andrea.

36:53 She was pulling out her hair and clumps picking at her skin until it bled. The voices that come back. She'd stopped eating entirely one night, Rusty came home from work and he found Andrea holding a knife to her throat and she was begging. Being Rusty to let her and her life. She was hospitalized again and given an antipsychotic medicine was called, like Haldol. This is the one that had the best effect on her. She approved immediately and they said home friends. And family were like, this is definitely the bus you living on this stupid bus with four children is causing trouble.

37:34 So Rusty bought a three-bedroom house in clear Texas. And for a little bit of time, Andrew was doing, all right. She was seeing a doctor bi-weekly. She had a washer and dryer, she was on good medication. Yes, they are on the up-and-up doctors work, couldn't they were? They thought that this was postpartum, depression, made worse by her, major depressive disorder, and the gates were advised, they should either abstain, for set from sex, or Andrea should stay on birth control. They did actually opted to ignore the church and go on birth control, right?

38:15 But they didn't stick with this very long. Yeah. You know what would help? What him? Get a goddamn vasectomy. No. Because remember they want babies but there's supposed to be a controlled, get a goddamn vasectomy. You got enough kids already. Nope not enough. So one of the things we know now is that women who Suffer from postpartum already higher risk of getting in again during subsequent pregnancies and the episodes tend to get worse each, with each pregnancy, Andrea was on the way to recovery, but another birth would absolutely destroy the progress. She had made. So they were advised. You should stop having kids right now. Give it a couple years.

38:58 You're still pretty young, you know, let Andrea get more stable. Do you want to know how quickly they decided that they should have another kid? This is a week later. Seven weeks. After she was discharged, God, Rusty kind of looked at it. Andrea's mental illness and postpartum and the suicide attempts is like kind of like her having the flu and that's literally a direct quote, just like the flu. Come on. His thought was, if she relapses has, we'll just go back to the hospital and get new maps. No, that's not how it works, though. It's not how that works and that's definitely something he In realize which is that like the kind of medications that she's on take a while to set in and she's going to have to come off of them to get pregnant and going off of these meds, very quickly is very dangerous. Yeah, I can imagine so yes, she stopped taking her medication, seven weeks, after being discharged from the hospital in 2000, and she had her fifth child Mary in November of 2000. Oh, finally a girl.

39:59 She, she actually seemed to be doing, all right? Though there was like a weird situation where she tried to feed like a very young baby, real food and the baby like start choking. I don't know why she was doing that but also like this is a woman clearly in distress. Yeah, but March 2001, Andrea's father dies. She starts picking at her skin, pulling out her hair again, ignoring her own health for the next few months. She's in and out of psychiatric facilities. On a revolving door of medicines, trying to find the right combination here. Doctors, tell Rusty, do not leave. Andrea alone at all.

40:42 Something that Rusty ignored. He arranged for his mother to come and watch the kids with Andrea, but he still left her alone for small. Bouts of time. He thought that she would become dependent on him and his mother for help with her wifely duties. Dude, they told you not to leave her alone for a reason April 2001. She began seeing a new doctor. His name is dr. Mohammad Sayeed a month after that. May 3rd, 2001. She regresses to almost a catatonic State. When afternoon Rusty's mom, her name is Dora Yates finds her. She had filled the The bathtub in the middle of the afternoon and when Dora was like, what's the bathtub for? She is just like I just wanted to of course later on Andrea would say that that was enough, that was a day that she had intended on killing the children but she changed her mind. She and tell her children that at all. I shouldn't tell the doctors at it. Of course, of course she was hospitalized. Again, the next day, the psychiatrist there are met for thought she was suicidal and they thought that the tub had been for her.

41:58 Rusty was useless and actually, quite frustrating through this whole process. He actually told Andrea at one point that she should think happy thoughts. I'm gonna punch you in the nuts. Three common phrase of neurotypical. People who do not understand how any of this works at. All right, there you can Sucker Punch right in your boys. Yeah. God, he's super, super frustrating. Andrea continued to see, dr. Syed. Until June 20th 2001. When she was arrested that De Rossi left for work. He left her alone to watch the children, which was directly against sites. Instructions Rusty's. Mother Dora was scheduled to get there at 10:00 a.m. to help her for the rest of the day.

42:39 So Rusty, was only going to be gone for an hour. They could have stayed that damn our I think so too. This is the part where I'm going to explain what happens? I have no issue with you. Skipping over like the next like Four minutes. To anyone listening? Yeah. She filled the bathtub with water and she drowned a five year old John first, then she carried him. Hugh her and Rusty's bedroom, laid him on the bed, covered him with the sheet, she did this again to Paul who was three, Luke who was too and then six month old Mary while she was in the process of drowning, Mary Noah walked into the bathroom. He was now 7 and he was like, what's wrong with Barry? Little boy, tried to run away, but Andrea caught him and drowned him to.

43:39 She left his body in the tub and took Mary and laid him in John's arms. Andrew called the police. The I actually saw the transcript of the call to the police. It was very weird. She was just like, I need him to come and they were like the 911. Operators, like, who, who do you need to come? And she's like, my husband, and he's like, she's a car. You? Okay. Are you ill? And she said, yes, I'm Ill. And They're like, do you need a police officer?

44:21 Oh, gee. A firefighter. And she's just like, yes, firefighters should come. Send an ambulance to And then she called her husband. Hmm again I already told you the situation where she told them it's time. Yeah. When the police arrived Andrea was still wet and she greeted them at the door, she said very calmly. I just killed my kids. Then she sat down in the living room and the officers checked. Every account that I read of this, and I don't go, I don't have any, I don't go to into details on this in my notes, but that it was a very, just a life-altering experience for the police officers, who checked horrible to walk in, and see the little boy in the tub.

45:15 And then to walk down the hall and see the other four children laid out, She told she spoke to detective. His name was Ed, Mel saying I'm a bad mother and I deserve to be punished. She didn't struggle with the police as the EMTs came into the house. To see if her children were still alive, she just looked kind of blankly at her neighbors as they led her away. The police reported that, this is the part that really like annoyed me, I just really frustrated me because Rusty was like, you're not living up to your wifely duties. I'm like, bro. Nobody was doing anything in the house because don't lie. They said the house was like just super cluttered dishes were everywhere.

45:55 Everything was super messy. like, if she's in such a state where she can do nothing, Like, what wifely duties, do you think? She's like, becoming dependent on you? She can't even wash a dish. That's a whole different level. Yeah. But the children were confirmed dead when the The medical examiner. Got there. Rusty was not allowed to enter the home for five hours. He told the police that his wife was depressed and that she was on medication at the police station. They recorded an interview of Andrea Yates and she confessed, she's like nearly emaciated at this point she is like stuttering. She is, filthy, her scalp is covered in bald patches from her.

46:51 Pulling her hair out and scabs from her like Like scratching at her scalp, on top of that, the recorded confession was bizarre, it was a mixture of her discussing what she did. But also it was like all of that, like religious mumbo-jumbo Twisted into it. Like this, that she'd like internalized over the lack last eight years of being with Rusty, like she told him, she killed her children because she was a bad mother. She explained exactly. Like, I told you in detail like, which one, and how she did it? She told the police, like, they were like, well, did the children do anything wrong? She's like, no, she's like, mm, were you mad at them? She's like, no, they weren't developing correctly. And so, they're like, what does that mean? And she's just like, well, you know, I've been thinking about Doing this for the last two years and that she said that she needed to be punished for not, raising them correctly, and the officer realized that she wanted the criminal justice system to punish her for being a bad mom.

47:55 According to her own religion, she was sure that if things went on the way they were going, her evilness would, in fact, these children and they would never get to go to heaven, she believed that just like the war in Equis. Told her, she was damned, but at least she could save her children. From Souls. She said that she had nearly killed him two months ago, chant, but changed her mind. Gave him a name of her current psychiatrist. She said she hadn't killed them because someone was at home with her at the time, the officer interviewing her, shut off the recording, 18 minutes later after asking, Andrea to give all the birth dates of her children. So for his records that day, she was charged with two counts of capital, murder for intentionally and knowingly called. The death of three of her children with water as the weapon.

48:45 There was no mention on this report at all, of her mental illness. Exactly, on the flip side, Rusty began telling the press that she had been dealing with serious mental health issues, since the birth of their fourth child in 1989. Dr. Syed called Rusty the day of the murders and was shocked. He was like, doctors. I eat was under the belief that Rusty's mother lived there with them. And she was always there, right? Not that she was showing up every morning and then going home and I mean, yeah, the latter would make sense and former will make sense. One day because this is like a media Firestorm at this part. No one can imagine this.

49:29 You know, horrible thing happened and beautiful medical Middle America. One day Rusty, goes outside with a picture of his family, and tells the group of reporters everything he remembers from that day and he publicly supports Andrea telling the reporter. She's a good. Mom, she just wasn't in her right frame of mind. June, 22nd and reappears in front of Johnny Belinda Hill and listens to prosecutor kahlan will afford. It was well for its first capital, murder case, and whole she gave it everything she had. No Andrea said, she didn't have her attorney, didn't have an attorney and was given a public defender named Bob Scott who immediately requested a gag order on everything that was going to be investigated. So that it wasn't leaked to the Press, he wanted the state to keep quiet.

50:17 On whether they were going to seek the death penalty, the prosecution complied. At this point, Rusty got a family friend named George parnham to help with the case and George. Negotiated a meeting between Rusty and Andrea because at this point he wasn't even allowed to see her and laughing singing. Here would be the best rejected the attorney. There you go. She told Rusty, you will be greatly rewarded and then said have a nice life and tell him to leave. The reason why she was so weird during this interview, this, this time was that the president didn't have like the medication that she needed, right? So they just were putting her on sedatives, so she was just high as a kite that day.

51:01 Like have a nice life by a man, by the name of Wendell Odom was enlisted to help parnham when he went to see Andrea. She only wanted to know what plea, they were going to submit. Her because she said she was not going to plead guilty at this point. Wonder was like, I'm not even sure you can stand trial for yourself. She still even while she was in prison, she still wasn't bathing and she was barely aware of the world around her. She was still shaking and like scratching at her scalp. There was a Doctor by the name of Lucy per year who ended up evaluating her for the defense and said that Andrea was suffering from something. Called postpartum psychosis and described her as the sickest person I have ever seen in my life. No, I'm pause this because a lot of people know what postpartum depression has.

51:57 Mmm, I didn't actually know what postpartum psychosis was. I started reading about that. Yeah, I didn't know that was a thing. So postpartum depression occurs in about 20 percent of women who have children attended, 20% is the, the general percentage. It just happens because there are a extreme amount of hormonal shifts. Being within the pregnant woman and it, they have weird thoughts. They feel unsure. Sometimes they have trouble bonding with the child. Postpartum psychosis is actually quite where and only occurs in about Point 1 to point, 2 percent of all women, who give birth, it's treatable but very severe and it can happen to women who've never had any Mental Health.

52:47 Issues before, but women who already have a history of mental illness or at a higher risk for it. It starts within weeks of the pregnancy like the birth, and if its treated like quickly, you're perfectly fine. But like, as for the symptoms of this, Andrea had them all strained believes hearing and seeing things that aren't there. Severe confusion. Bouts of mania with a loss of touch of reality, Andrews medical records were subpoenaed and psychiatrist were ordered to speak to her. She very consistently told all of them that God would accept her children to heaven, when one of the doctors reverse, the question and was like, what would happen if you'd left the children alive? Andrea told them, the children would continue stumbling in their lives and go to hell.

53:39 When I asked like, what were the children doing to show you that you were being a bad mom? Andrea said that they didn't treat Rusty's mother with respects and weren't doing the things that God liked, which is so vague. Yeah. What did the judge did Issue the gag order, five days later which is the same way that the children were buried. But it didn't really matter because information just leaked constantly to the process, right? A funeral was reported on the media Rusty was Graham and sad and spoke at at each of his children's coffins tongue. Labor and good hands and placing the Child's favorite toy inside the coffin.

54:20 He gave a eulogy for his children, discussing their personalities and he showed pictures of them. He read a few Bible verses called it, God's Will and sat down. Andrea was not permitted to attend her children's funeral but other family members did by June 28th. The media were predicting what was going to happen here. Texas juries are very apt to recommend. The death penalty but they have always found it. Hard to kill mother's. Hmm, as of May 17th 2021. There are 17. Women on death, row for killing their children, but roughly 180 children are killed by their mothers, every year in the u.s.

55:03 Oh my God. So Of the ones that happened every year, like what less than one percent of them actually end up on death row. For some reason, as a culture, we really struggle to Put a woman to death. Put a mother to death. Yeah it's rigged. It's weird. You child enough. Texas indicted Andrea for the deaths of Noah John and Mary on July 31st, 2001. They Prevail Leaf earring as to why they did not include the all the children is that. If the initial charges didn't go the way the state wanted, they could prosecute her again and not fall under.

55:45 Look at them using their brain. Yep, so they like listen, we're going to do these first three and if this doesn't go the way we want, we're going to prosecute the other two. There you go. Judge Hill ordered a third Psych. For Andrea for her arraignment be Raymond. Is when you're expected to submit your plea and here, the formal charges against you, she appeared in court, August 8, 2001. She was thinner than she first appeared in. June, she been put back on the same antipsychotic that had worked for her in 1989, but it didn't seem to be working. Now she was very clearly deteriorating. But the Texas court appointed psychiatrist is like nah, she's good. Her legal team did not agree and they wanted to draw To see and decide for themselves.

56:32 Since the psychiatrist they'd all hired said that Andrea was not competent enough to just to stand trial, competency, hearing meeting that she's able to participate in her own defense and fully comprehend what's happening in court, right? The judge would agree. Look at the medical testimony from dr. Syed. That was given to the grand jury before her indictment and they set up a competency hearing the day. After they say, the judge agreed to the competency hearing the prosecution was like, yeah. So we're going to be seeking the death penalty so much for that gag order, right? The judge ordered. No one could speak publicly about this. But Rusty did a 60 Minutes interview oh my God, where he showed videos of the children and talked about his life with Andrea, but he was careful.

57:21 Not to give any opinions about the trial or talk about anything involving the try. Well. Okay. I mean, that's not too bad. He did everything, but so I'm jury selection began a week after September 11th because everything. Shut down for September 11th. Yes, that wild doesn't want this happened. That year. So, aim of the books that I read for this cop, Breaking Point by Suzie Spencer, it goes into some intense details about this competency trial, there were hundreds of pages of documents submitted to the court defense, experts saying, she's not come, you know, competent prosecution saying. She is lawyers arguing about the state psychologist.

58:02 Being allowed to visit Andrea without the defense knowledge. The judge ruled that that interview couldn't be used but the end of the While it's still got used those all crazy. There's this, his name is dr. Joan Harris. And he testified that he met Andrea four times and that she showed signs of psychosis an hallucination on June 25th. That's five days after the murder. Hmm. She was seeing visions of Satan in her jail cell. He told the court. She had a hard time understanding questions and it would take her like a really long time to like process. What he was asking her. The one thing that Andrea seemed to be certain of, is that she deserved to be executed and go to hell. Because once she was killed the Devil Within her would be destroyed.

58:51 She insisted, she didn't need a lawyer, she was not going to plead guilty and then she wanted to shave her head to prove that she had been given the mark of Satan and it was on her scalp. And if she shaved her head, then won't be able to see it. Oh, my God, dr. Harris did tell the court that after three months of being medicated, she did seem to stop having hallucinations and could hold on to like have a conversation, but she still struggled with delusions. And while she was a Rather like average intelligence woman. She struggled with remembering things, which is kind of important for a trial where you're supposed to remember the details of what you did, right? And it's like I said, if someone with MVD, your memory like long-term depression, and your memory, it's just shot, I just forget stuff, I know it's awful, it makes me feel terrible. Goodness, there's another doctor named Laura. Marin gel who testified about the changes that happen to your brain at different psychological States dr. Mary and Joe is actually an expert on depression and she walks the court through the previous two years of Andrea's life and said that with extensive treatment Andrea could become competent.

1:00:10 But at this moment she was not the prosecution used the prison staff to support their assertion that Andrea was okay, there was a doctor named Steve rubin's. Sir, who spent 10 hours with her and done tests? This was the one that the defense was disputing because the defense wasn't there when they did these competency time, September 24th, 2001, a jury of 11 men and one woman deemed her fit to stand trial on October 30th. Andrea's attorneys filed, 36, pretrial, motions, everything in the book that they could file, they did. But the most important one was that, the court reconsider part of the Texas criminal code that would stop jurors from knowing that a verdict of Not Guilty.

1:00:58 By reason of insanity was not actually Acquittal, and I didn't realize this either, like, I think, you know, it kind of but you people always say, like, oh, that person got away with, you know, Murder By reason of insanity. No, but the reality of that is that you don't like get to go free. No, no. You agree to like go to a mental facility, roughly for the rest of your life. Yep. You just aren't going to prison. But I mean, really, if we're arguing if some psychiatric facilities are like present mostly in his prison. Yeah. So People like the common. I think general idea in America is that you get to walk away from this but that's not true at all. So what her attorneys wanted was for them to essentially say, like, know if you do this if you give her, you know, guilty, not guilty.

1:01:49 By reason of insanity, it doesn't mean she gets away with murder. I just mean she's going to go to a facility that can actually help her, right? But apparently in Texas, you can't do that. We're not allowed to know that whatnot. It's against the rules. It's against the rules are against the law. It's part of the Texas criminal code. That jurors are not supposed to understand like that about that verdict. That's some bullshit. It's weird. And it's something that after this case has been disputed, like, why wouldn't you want your jurors to be fully like before we understand what's going on? That's what I said too. Now, Andrea is defense. Also wanted her Russian thrown out because it was done about an hour after the murders where she was not on any medication and she was definitely not competent enough to waive her right to an attorney that day.

1:02:40 Yeah, but it's what you didn't do, it was the freshest. So at this end, they were trying and November a psychiatrist for the prosecution interviewed Andrea, his name was dr. Park Dietz, and he is a nationally well-known forensic psychiatrist who worked on Jeffrey, Dahmer's case for the FBI. Oh as well as Susan Smith. Who also drowned her children. Oh wait, you said Jeffrey Dahmer? You mean your boy? No Dahmer know until my Bundy. Well no not but probably not your voice. Not my boy, not your boy. Oh my God. Okay Dahmer is not my boy.

1:03:22 Despite him being a very well respected forensic psychiatrist. He knew virtually nothing about postpartum depression or psychosis. It wasn't his area of expertise that interview was taped and released to the public. Oh, they probably eat him alive. She know, she repeated a lot of what I've told though, but she I told you to dr. Dietz. December was really tough month. The defense lost nearly all of their emotions, specifically, the one about the jury, they begin what year which is jury selection. January 6, 2002, eight women, and four men were chosen. Seven of those jurors had children and to had degrees in Psychology.

1:04:04 Hmm. All were aware that they were allowed to choose the death penalty trial was set for February. Eighteenth, two thousand two. This was super high profile and the literally like Every night, the media's medical experts were debating, whether Andrea Yates was actually crazy. We should she get off like The prosecution was like, listen, Andrew Greg Yates drowned, her five kids. She knew it was wrong. She known because she didn't kill them when her husband was home the month before and she waited until he was gone the day that she did it then she called the police. Both Williford and her partner. Joseph own be tried to keep the jury focused on the fact that she knew what was right when it happened and that her mental health wasn't really a factor.

1:04:52 Of course the defense was that she didn't know What she was doing, because she is insane as we discussed during the Herbert Mullin case. And episode 13, this is still very hard to prove in court. Andrea's defends said that she'd been suffering from postpartum depression. Since her second son was born postpartum psychosis since the final child was born her lawyer. Parnham said that Andrea's mental illness was so severe. And so long-standing that Andrea Yates ability to think is at an abstract To give narrative responses and to be able to connect the dots is impaired. Hmm? Really?

1:05:33 He specifically avoided bringing up the religious stuff because he thought that her fixation on religion was a manifestation of the bigger problem. Like it wasn't. Just the devil made me do it. It was that's a movie coming out. Oh yeah, yeah. Oh wow. It's about the warrants to. Oh wow. Yeah, we have to watch it. I'm sorry. They were going to leave it up to the jurors decide if she was in the midst of a debilitating psychotic State, when she killed her children. This is rough because now after a year of consistent, medical treatment, Andrea looked a lot better. And it would be unethical to remove her from the medications to show how she behaves when she's not on.

1:06:14 Yeah, please don't know where the enough during Yates testified for the prosecution on how Andrea did nothing at home, but you sit and stare into space. And so like, a lot of people who reported on this guy, read a couple of years, our curls news articles and they were just like This kind of was more helpful to the defense. Yeah, absolutely saying that. Like she pretty much was at home in a catatonic State all the time. Thank you. Regardless. We appreciate your help. One of the other things that the prosecution did was they showed a picture of one of the children's like clenched Fist and it had some of Andrea's hair in it. So I let the baby have fought back when I have the baby but one of the other children for that, right? And also too Show how small their little hands were when they died.

1:07:07 Andrea's lawyer was like, this is just an attempt to work up the jury. It was, right. They also showed the pajamas, they like literally entered the children's pajamas into evidence to show how small they were come on and how Andrea was so much bigger. We know how big seven-year-old five, right. So we don't like, literally this is like a 50 pound child. Yeah, we know how big they are, you know. Shows us the phone in to see it. The defense launch their portion of the trial. They started with the prison psychiatrist. Melissa Ferguson to give the court, an idea of what Andrea looked like, when she entered the prison, how she couldn't answer any questions or really talk much. One of the books that I read for this podcast is called, are you there alone?

1:07:52 And it was from Suzanne O'Malley and one of the most bizarre things that Suzanne points out about this entire relationship. But specifically, the trial is that Rusty Yates is almost As delusional as his wife. He made team this almost childish naivete, that Andre would be found innocent and that they would have more children after she left a mental health, facility boy know at some point, while he was testifying in her defense, I think it might have, he might have finally really understood the breadth of his wife's illness because before the murders Rusty, was very much. The type of person to tell, you know, people just didn't think happy thoughts, Or. Brian Kennedy.

1:08:38 Andrea's brother said that one time, he even said that, like depressed people just needed like a swift kick in the rear. You need a swift kick and to get you know in gear and your face. Sir you fucking cloning during Rusty's testimony though he had a bone to pick with dr. Sayid So mind, you doctor say eat is the one who said don't leave her alone, you ever. Yeah. What's his problem with dr. So rusty said, doctor said he is responsible for my wife's mental care. Not me. I'm not a mental health care, professional. And since Andrea hadn't told him about the hallucinations, he's like, I assume that what was being done, you know, was being done boy as your wife, right know this stuff but he, that's what I'm saying. He was neglectful of heard throughout their entire relationship.

1:09:27 It's not yours. Not the doctors fault. You it's like partly your fault too, because you weren't paying attention to her. You weren't there for her, you are sure your fucking asshole. God, I'm sorry. Well, Rusty also said that if she was as sick as dr. Syed had told the cops, then she should have never been released at all. She should have been left alone, like, which astral fucking left her alone. She should have been released but doc Dr. Saeed also told the cops that he didn't want to release Andrea, but her insurance, only covered her stay, in an inpatient facility for 10 days. Hmm.

1:10:10 So they were at a loss. Doctor said he did testify in the third week of the trial that when he met with Andrea two days before the murder, she was not displaying psychosis at that time and that he had diagnosed her with depression with psychotic features. The defense questioned his notes and said, did you add these after she got arrested for murder and say he was like, no, because they were saying that he didn't do his job. And that he should have been a little more thorough. I'm pretty like I'm pretty sure he did the best he could do what he could like.

1:10:54 Nobody else was there to help, right? Like she was lucky enough to get like a doctor like let her husband. Her husband actually took her right? Yeah. At that point. Well Andrews mother spoke on her behalf she was not cross-examined and then they brought out their big guns. Three very well-known psychiatrist Philip Resnick Steve rosenblatt and Lucy per year this was a three-part plan so rosenblatt had interviewed Andrea five days after the killing and say that Andrea was in a deep sleep. Of psychosis and that it would have taken weeks for her to get this bad. Not days, which directly cuts into dr. Saeed's diagnosis of saying, that two days before the murder. She was all right, hmm. Per year, focused on the internalized. Shame from her first to it, that suicide attempt and how she had had a lot of secrecy about her suicidal, ideation after that because after that, she didn't tell anybody about any of the stuff she was thinking, or seeing or hearing, right prayer. Also handled the main chunk of explaining to the The jury the difference between postpartum depression and psychosis. Then Resnick, his speciality was parasite. He referred to the killings as being altruistic in nature, and that she knew what she was doing was illegal. But she believed that her choice to override this, right? And wrong, was because she was doing it for the betterment of the child.

1:12:20 That actually makes sense, right? So this wasn't like, I'm killing my kids because I don't know. Some man wants me to move to, you know. Yeah. North Carolina or something dumb like that. Like this was done with her thinking about their best interest at heart, but she knew it was wrong but she does, she didn't know. It was wrong to kill people. Yeah. Resident met her in her cell on two separate occasions and he was just like, I'm pretty sure she's schizophrenic as well. His diagnosis did contradict the other doctors but he's just simply Stated like listen this is just my interpretation of the same data that we're all looking at right after that, the prosecution had their opportunity for rebuttal and that is when they bought it, brought in dr.

1:13:05 Park Dietz. This was a big deal. Because dr. Dietz and dr. Resnick had been on the opposite side of the courtroom before and dates usually 100. He was very good at explaining complex things in simple ways forgeries, which tends to earn you favor in courtroom. Do you like to be talked to like I don't know things. This is because sometimes actually explain to me like I'm five like playing a courtroom like because sometimes I am stupid and you need to talk to me like a child. Like these cases are long. They go on for weeks. Like you need somebody to explain like, okay. Can you just say and basic words with psychosis says, because I'm tired of hearing, my 12th grades 13th grade language. Y'all need to move on from there to youth green 13th, grade. Listen, I'm not ready for 13th, grave right now, sir. In fact, during the trial Deets used PowerPoint and he admitted yes Andrea Yates is seriously mentally ill, but she a, he said, she hadn't acted like a mother who was saving her children.

1:14:05 He said she was aware of her delusions and had not done anything to protect her children Dietz point out that in Yates own words. She had committed a sin and she knew what she had done was wrong. He also pointed out that Yates deserve the death penalty for crimes and that her covering the children's bodies with. His sheet was a sign of guilt. He also wondered why she hadn't comforted her children or reassured them afterward. That this was an act of love. Dietz. Also, blamed Rusty to thank you. He remind the court that doctor Sayid and also another doctor who did she had worked with before dr. Eileen star Branch had.

1:14:48 Advised her not to go off her meds to get pregnant and not to leave Andrea alone. This is true. He said that Russia should have realized that. If a doctor was saying, don't leave her alone. It means you can't leave her alone with the kids. He Point out that Andrea had been living in an unhealthy condition for a very long time and had not received the Continuous Care that she needed to recover. And that's the really big word here. Continuous Care. It's one thing for Rusty to compete. Taking her back to the doctors every couple months. Yeah. But she need ongoing consistent. Medical Healthcare really hourly. Like that's like it's one of those interesting things. After my mom passed, I was seeing a therapist twice a week. every week for months, that That matters. So like if you're saying that somebody's in this like deep psych psychosis, I was nowhere near anything like that and you were at least and I was a weed.

1:15:49 Yeah I was still going to see a therapist twice a week so I feel like honestly like I said like dr. Sagan said she should have been committed. Yeah and she was only getting hit like we just like once a month naughty. Yeah. It was like one time, will the year that this happened? Yeah, April May a couple of June, like, I'm like once a month is not enough, that's that's what you Like you get put on once a month, appointments, when you're in like, full-on like recovery and they're like, I was going to check on you every so often you're doing good. That's what I'll do for counseling once a month. Yeah, that's that's kind of, like, where would be now for me like, hey, you know, what did you stop by once a month to keep up with you. Exactly.

1:16:30 But like, once a month for somebody who is this far down the rabbit hole? It's at, it's not enough. Now, Dietz also said in court that when Was imprisoned. She told him, I shouldn't have done this, he did concede that. It's possible that Andrea psychosis could have gotten worse after she killed the children, so that the other doctors weren't lying, but that he did say that the delusions that she told him and the delusion, she told the other doctors days and weeks later were different. It was his opinion that her motive for murder was the same as her motive for suicide. She saw, no way out of her life with a man who gave her no help and left her with five children.

1:17:16 This was a way for her to escape and the same way that she was trying to escape by killing herself. He also liquid on this weird tangent where he said that Andrea had seen a law-and-order episode about a mother who killed her children. I had gotten away with murder. Hmm. That's going to come up later. Closing arguments happen. Williford dramatically asked the jury to sit in silence for the three minutes that would have taken for each of the children to die. I know very dramatic parnham, just decided to reiterate what the psychiatrist said and let their work speak for him. The jury deliberated for three hours and returned with a verdict on March 12th. 2002 Andrea was guilty, Rusty cried in the courtroom. Andrea tried to give her brother Brian a smile. But cried as they, let her out the nation debated, whether she could have death penalty or not.

1:18:13 Every imaginable concept was run through the verdict was unfair. Give her life in prison. The verdict is fair as you deserve to die. Would it have been different if the jurors had known about the Not Guilty by insanity? You rolling. Yes. Why are they allowed to know this information? They would have definitely been different. And can I say something, I all the psychologists in this, I just noticed a Galaxy psychology going on with it. Just give me like a huge brain boner. Right now, I'm just learning all this cool stuff. It was like, oh my God. Yes. Well, are you ready for this bombshell? Yeah. Go ahead. The defense discover that Park Dietz. Lied. That episode of Law & Order that he was sure that Andrea had seen in told him about never happened. And the best part about this is the reason why they even found out about this is because of one of the women who wrote the book because she was that, I read the one that came out in 2005. I'm her name is Suzanne.

1:19:15 I forget her last name that fast. I've already mentioned her like four times Suzanne O'Malley was she like, I'm Dan Suzanne. O'Malley was a writer for Law and Order. See her name and yes. Yes, Susie and O'Malley is a writer for the writer, for Law and Order and almost immediately she could, she was working. She was writing for this what she's writing this book, but she was also working for Oprah and the New York Times covering the case. So she immediately was like, no, I I checked with everyone who I know who still writes on this show. There's no episode about a woman killing her family in a bathtub and getting away with murder. Oh, you know. Now they did release an episode about that in 2004, but that is three years after this case, yeah, that happened later, right?

1:20:05 So that kind of crazy that's wild. That one of the, the people like, this is a former writer for a An order who is also a at this point. Honestly, I should just like I've read a lot of Susan, O'Malley's books for these podcasts. I need to send her an email me. Like you know, you want to be on our podcast because I like you. But I who knew that? Like I didn't realize that that like, that's why that detail, the fact that this woman was doing this case. is ultimately the reason why this case gets overturned, I don't mind that because die, I don't don't be like, come on now.

1:20:51 So the funny thing here is that Dietz sends a letter and he's just like, I'm an error. I guess Andrea. Never told me about this, his reputation does take a little bit of a hit, but he is still considered to be a renowned successful forensic psychiatrist parnham and Odom, ask for a mistrial immediately but judge held declines it. I mean, it was just that one line though. We can't blink cause a mistrial for me. Yeah, really okay. Leo that's bring the jury meets again, to discuss sentencing and in under an hour actually was under 40 minutes. They come back and they give her life in prison option for parole in 2041, the jury even like barely even discuss the death penalty, which is exactly what we were talking about earlier, which is that we just do not want to put a mom in jail, like, Mom on death row.

1:21:39 Yeah. Andrea didn't seem to really react Snooze in the courtroom. She was sent to Mountain View unit which is a state. Psychiatry president Eastern, Texas. Rusty did all manner of interviews he could I'd his name popped up. So often in my research he insisted his family had been a victim of the poor mental health system in the United States that he, he ignored that he had been warned and said that Andrea had never properly been treated and then he set up a website to describe his side of things and show pictures of his family's and yes. Yes, I did. Look up that website. It's called Yates kids.org and currently it is not working. Look here, I want to call.

1:22:21 I want to call. Now, many people believe like you, I'm dying, many, many people believe like you though, that Rusty was culpable and that's the fish. Absolutely others also said that dr. Sayed should have looked further into her medical history and maybe put her on the medicine and she had been on a 99. In fact dozens of emails were sent to the local Harris County, DA Chuck, Rosenthal to investigate both of them, do nice Rusty, repeatedly was just like listen it was just an hour and my mom was going to be there. An hour. Yeah. But you know how long it takes to kill somebody. Not very long. Really?

1:23:02 It takes three minutes to drop someone what this is. Or at least the child green children though. This, what they charge her for right to become children? Yeah, one minute per Jack. Yeah, actually, every year before summer camp, we have to go through water, safety training, and our head lifeguard tells us that 30 seconds, that's how quickly a kid can receive lose. So much oxygen at. They have permanent brain damage. Really. Yep. Scared the crap out of me. The first year I ever started working for them. Oh my God. That's like 30 seconds. Oh God. What never let them out of your sight when they're near water? No, not at all terrifying. Oh my God. Okay. Well swimming. This Rusty.

1:23:42 Blame the hospital and the doctors he threatened to sue them but there was no investigation into Rusty and no lawsuit. Ultimately January 6, 2005. So Three years. After the initial verdict, the Texas court of appeals overturns, Andrea sentence, dr. Parks Dietz, false statement, had Prejudice, the jury, and that was considered to be a miscarriage of Justice. Because essentially Dietz was saying that she had premeditated. Like this was a premeditated murder. Okay, so, okay, so if they thought that she had planned this ahead of time, yeah, and there's no way they were ever going to consider.

1:24:28 That she was insane. Prosecutors insisted. They did not purposefully mislead the court but it didn't matter. January 9th, 2006, Andrea submitted, a plea of Not Guilty. By reason of insanity and on February 1st 2006, she was granted release on bail on the condition that she would stay at a mental health facility and complete her treatment. So she was actually allowed out of prison during the trial. Okay? July 25th, 2006 after three days of deliberation, Andrea Yates Was found not guilty and committed to the North Texas State Hospital at Vernon campus about a year later. She was deemed well enough to go to a low-security facility and Kerrville Texas where she has been at the Kerrville state hospital. She's currently 56 years old and enjoys arts and crafts. Nice Mystery of Life in there then yeah she the she could potentially be released its Highly unlikely that. Yeah I don't think with everything that she went through and how many years she went untreated unfortunately, mental like severe mental health stuff does change not your brain chemistry, but it almost changes like the way your brain works. They have done, they've taken, I forget what those CAT scan. Yes, cat-scans of people with different mental illnesses, and compared those to people who are

1:25:59 neurotypical and you're like, your synapses fire differently. Hmm. Since we're being so open about my mental health, this episode, one of the things that I learned after having a very traumatic childhood before I was adopted, is that I am consistently in fight or flight mode. My brain automatically assumes, the worst thing is going to happen. How can I navigate? How to deal with this? And I am 33 years old. It's just something that I've learned to deal with and that I have, I cannot trust my instant reaction to things.

1:26:41 I have to stop and go. You can work through this, this is not life or death, but because when I was so little so much was life and death and more than likely when I was, my brain was forming itself and becoming a big people brain. I didn't get a chance to not constantly be in that sense of anxiety and fear as a kid. I mean speaking from Like my son, like I can just see like how all this. He's very anxious to is. He does suffer from anxiety.

1:27:22 He does and I can just see like, if you learn how to deal with it. Exactly, if you didn't have any help for it at all, then, you know, then I can just see him growing up with just. Just two biggest, I don't know, just having like a bad time. Basically, the nice thing about it is that you have, you know, sort, Help with this. Yes, you don't have to just be anxious all the time. It was amazing to me. I'd like 28 years old. I remember like telling my ex at the time like do you know how wonderful it is? Not to worry about you all the time because I just assumed that, that was how all people were I assumed that if I called like that normal, like the everybody freaked out when you called your parent and they didn't pick up the phone and like, when I was a teenager, I would call my parents repeatedly over and over and over and Over again. If they weren't home on time, I was always afraid. I didn't think I didn't think that was, I thought that was how everybody was.

1:28:20 I thought that was normal. And then all of a sudden I'm like it's not only it's you know, so you have to constantly they call them automatic negative thoughts, ants and you just have to learn how to challenge your own brain. And go is this is this as bad as you're making it out to be? Probably not need some bug spray froz ants. But remember we talked about how Andrea Yates was. Suffering from depression and things when she was a teenager. Yeah. Or in middle school. So, it's very likely that some of these Pathways and things that she struggled, you know, this was happening during her formative years to and the thing is, your brain also doesn't stop developing until you hit your leg mid-20s.

1:29:01 So that's also when she first met Rusty and she got indoctrinated into that weird religion. So, all these things are going on in her brain and she was constantly led to believe that. I mean, it was honestly it sounds very cold like you and I talked about cults every so often, it sounds very cult-like. So I really doubt that she will probably ever be released but at least she will have some semblance of A okay life. Yeah, yeah. And that's, you know, that's the best you can do is for her as for Rusty. Hmm, he got divorced. They, he filed for divorce in 2004 before her trial was overturned, he no longer works for NASA. He remarried in 2006 but has since gotten divorced, they have a little boy who is 12 years old?

1:29:46 Hmm. Apparently he calls Andrea once a month and he visits her once a year and they talk about the good times, okay? Good times. According to them. Okay. And that's kind of how that goes for the two of them. Okay, this is lovely. Yep. It's an interesting, like I said, like this was a weird thing to discuss because we still don't probably give enough respect or acknowledgement to women who have postpartum that people really don't understand that it especially, probably for somebody who's never experienced any of those.

1:30:28 And if thoughts or suicidal ideation or things of that nature, it's probably very scary for somebody who has had never had any mental health issues and now all of a sudden, why do I want to kill myself and my baby? Yeah, you know. Yeah. But if we did better with that we would probably save a lot of children's lives and also women to because it is, it's totally a completely treatable issue. You just have to one being a place where you can tell people about it and not feel guilty to be able to get the medical care that you need and move. You know, and then could get that Continuous Care. It's not, this is not a one-and-done thing. Nothing mental health-related is one and no, no, no. I'm sure anybody listening has any sort of diagnosis knows that it's nonstop.

1:31:25 Yeah, I definitely will Freaky refer to it as recovery, I'm fine. Most of the time. Every once in a while say I'm not and you just gotta work through those days. Save but yeah like I said I started out being like there is absolutely no justification for why a woman would kill her children and as I was going through these two different books and all these noodles news articles like well yeah when I got to the trial I was like I don't know which side I want to be. All right now, right is because on one hand you totally are like oh these poor babies. And on the other hand And you're just like, poor Andrea. Yeah.

1:32:07 Let's did she ever have a chance? Yeah, that's poor babies before. So, if you are a Christian in one of these weird fundamentalist organizations, get out Brad, like being forced to do that whole Barefoot pregnant thing sounds like, oh, just a raw deal. What the hell is that? That's where you just hang out. You know, you're barefoot and pregnant. You cook in the kitchen and you make babies, that's what they want. The women to do is some of those work. So just like a Housewife, pretty much. Yeah. Pretty much. But a housewife with absolutely no power, like, it's really interesting because like, I hear like the old, like black ladies talk about, like, you know, listen, I might have been at home, but I was in charge of the house, right? Of course, in their churches, you're at home and you're not in charge.

1:32:48 Oh, basically a slave. Yeah, pretty much popping out babies like, you know, my grandma would have been like, listen, he comes home and he gives the check to me and then I make sure all the bills are paid and I give him some of his money back so he can do what he wants. Was this all goes. So yeah. That's I mean that's how it is sometimes with these you know because Who would know what the house needs better than the person who's there all the time. Absolutely. But regardless, oh my God, it was a, it was a pretty intense. That was, yeah, that was a roller coaster. It. There you go. That's what we're going to say. It was a fucking roller coaster ride.

1:33:38 Oh my God. What do you have for me today? All right, so I know a lot of people may know that me and Brittany Live in Pennsylvania. We do. Yeah and a lot of my friends listen to the podcast and it mean when they can and know a lot of you know your people who listen to the podcast too. So oh yes my friends from Lancaster listen to us. Yeah there you go some of your co-workers right? Oh yeah and some people I work with to worry about that. My-my boss will randomly be like and then you were talking about and I'm like you're right you're right that's what we say. But we do often mention that we are from central Pennsylvania. I know we like you mentioned it like another, that's good or not, you never know.

1:34:32 And people don't know where central Pennsylvania is there. Like, what the hell central Pennsylvania? Like you not at all Adelphia friggin truth. This is true. Well today, I'll be bringing you some urban legends and / hauntings from our little neck of the woods. Oh that's lovely. And that may be new to some and who chew others. I mean I'm pretty sure everybody from around the area they know all of the legends from the area. Oh most of the info was brought to me by a very good friend of mine named is Christine and this lady.

1:35:15 She she basically like helped me when I first started skating. Oh cool. So my roller derby career. Yeah. And she's always down the skate whenever if she's free that's important. But yeah, yeah, like I asked her, you know, what are some local Tales from your - would I could talk. About and like she gave me like this whole as she blew up my messenger about this only pixel. Like I think one from her whole list because other ones I like I can talk about this but it'd probably be like too long. Well, okay, yeah, I don't know.

1:35:56 But whatever, I'm pretty sure she's listening so. Hi Christine, thanks for the info. Hi. Christine All right. Now we're giving out our actual location. We don't need stalkers at all. Amen. I'll be talking about different stories from different cities and Central PA, or I think one's actually not in Central PA is the one, the last one I'm going to be telling you, but two are from central Pennsylvania. Oh, interesting. I don't know. Like okay, you don't know a lot from Central think. I know some about some of the the far reaches of our state, you know, up near Eerie, you don't know anything from From our, I don't think so huh.

1:36:37 Okay. And I also won't be talking about Gettysburg because one that's Gettysburg has too many fucking ghost stories choose from and to everybody knows Gettysburg. Yeah, his Holiness fuck. So. All right. Okay, so wait, have you heard of seven? Gates of? Hell yes. Okay great. I was going to tell you that one first, but, It's a, I mean you can still tell the people I was gonna tell tell I was just going to go over it because it's not like something as not like something I wrote down those ones where I feel like every okay, I hate to say it this way.

1:37:21 But like every middle of like nowhere, place kind of has won the user have something like this or like the portal to portal to hell, or some shit. Like yeah. Like I think New Jersey has some type of shit like that. Yeah, everyone always has like a place. I swear, if you go through it, things will happen, well, always wanted to go. There's no such place. I mean there is but there's not I can get to it later but not really wanna get into it right now. I wanted to be real, it's sort of real but its not real. It's not I don't know how else to explain it.

1:38:03 Anyway, let's start off with one story. That oh, by the way, this story like you said everywhere has a place like this. Basically, everywhere everywhere has a place like this one too. And this is place a place that many people had tested out and there seems to be an answer for it, so yeah. Stop. Stop it. Christian is also tested this out. I think I know what this is. Oh my God. Continue. Okay, Louis Barre. Pennsylvania. Now this one is, I think it's off of Route. 83 there's a hill and if you just so happen to a, put your car in neutral at the bottom of this hill, it will seem to roll backwards up the hill as this the The one with the handprint.

1:38:57 Yeah, on your car? Okay, sure is. So I have heard about these. I just didn't realize they were in Pennsylvania. I heard about this like in like Virginia. Well, this is called Gravity Hill and like, like you said, Virginia. This isn't the only one in Pennsylvania and like, there are two other places in Pennsylvania with gravity hills. Oh, and this isn't the only place in America that has a Gravity Hill. Oh, okay. Then like, Over the place. That would explain that then no. But this one is close to home. So, I know totally. So this is the one that your friend is actually. Yeah, absolutely experienced. Now, there is, of course, a legend behind this from what I could piece together.

1:39:46 There was a school bus that whose brakes just gave out and bus, just rolled into the intersection down this road and of course, I got into an accident and the children on board. All died. Poor babies. Poor baby for babies. Yes. Now, if you happen to try it, it's said that the reason why the car moves backwards is because the children from the accident are said to be the ones. Pushing your car back from the intersection to save you from their fate. Yep. Remember hearing about this one is a kid. Yeah. Now, our gravity hills and I'm pretty sure any other Gravity Hill is actually just an optical illusion.

1:40:33 Oh yeah, it makes you. It makes it seem like you're rolling backwards uphill when you're inside the car. That's it. Yeah. Huh I don't like I talk to Christine, she said she didn't test out the handprint thing because her car was white. So she didn't see any hand prints on the car. I mean, she could put a little, you know, brown dirt on it. Rub it around a little bit. Yeah get your Carter. Yeah, listen for science. Christine for Sian my God. So apparently, the one in the lose, Barry is the best one to visit in Pennsylvania. Hmm.

1:41:16 Because you can't like what I read for. His one article is that the other two gravity hills you can see the optical illusion like you can see how it how it does it when you're outside of the car. I'm actually really interested in seeing the Illusion part of this. Yeah I do. I got a like it's the thing that we don't we might have to do but I don't want to do it. It and I'll tell you why it's do during the daytime. I'll tell you why. So, It's also advised to use as much caution as you can sense this gravity. He'll lose Barry is on a busy road. Well actually never mind that we're not going to like, put ourselves in actual danger.

1:42:00 No, no. I actually like the two roads that at the intersection is on our two busy roads. So, it's advised to do this, which makes sense because the legend is about like a car accident. So, like, don't cause a car accident, you know, you're trying to do. This thing, like if you visit PA, you can go to lose. Barry PA just be and you look for this Gravity Hill. Please be cautious because you don't want to cause another accident and we don't want to be title. Telling ghost stories about your ass. Oh, also, I want I want to mention that this story in the next one will be telling they are not advertised at all, by the towns.

1:42:45 Like they like nobody advertisers, that know these are things. You like, I'm pretty sure I heard about these or read about these randomly. When I was like a teenager reading like spooky forums and stuff and people talking about doing things haunted houses in Pennsylvania. You know, haunted Has stuff like that. Yeah, because nobody ever wants like nobody who lives there. Once randoms coming. No, no, they don't. No not at all. Please don't ya. Oh goodness. Okay, so next door that was Story. One number two, I'm pretty sure you're going to notice one as soon as I start talking about it. Okay, so if you play horror video games, like me and Brittany do. Yes, once again, I am bringing up games. Because the center, this is just what we do, this is what you, this is what I do like video games and if they, you know, connect with stuff I want to talk about, I won't talk about it.

1:43:44 So if you know anything about video games, horror video games, you might know this one as well, and Columbia County. There's a near ghost town with a population of nine. As of 2019, it just sort. It was 12:00. Yes, as a population. You gave me a look like you already knew what I was talking. Everybody knows about this. Of course it's name is Centralia, Centralia, Pennsylvania and it is what they base, Silent Hill. Well, the movie, the movie and the game, actually, the first, I don't remember, I didn't know that the game was based on. This is the, the first game was based off of it too.

1:44:27 I know the movie was definitely based off of it is not a movie. Definitely, they totally pulled everything. Oh, yeah, absolutely. now, if you don't know what Silent Hill is, Google it. I'm not telling you about it. No no this is worth. This is worth talking about Silent Hill was one of the I would say one of the forerunners of survival Horror. Oh yeah. I mean you walked through this. You were a man on a quest for your daughter. Yeah. In this town that you'd never heard of before called Silent Hill and one of the interesting things about the game itself was that the game engine that the time could not, Render the entire game at the same time, not like now where it loads a whole level in 30 seconds, it would load as you were walking.

1:45:16 So what they did to allow the game to slowly render and you not to be aware of, it was the entire town is covered in fog. Yes. And as you walk through the fog, it just gave a great Ambiance and experience and just straight chills of you not knowing and then your guy had a little radio. And the radio would begin to like get staticky when it was somewhere near a monster. But of course, you couldn't tell where it was coming from because you are walking through the fog. It was very sick. It's wonderful. The story itself is a little weird, but yeah, as they progressed as the movies and games per guest to get some more, we're not talking about the game and the movies, every, it's is worth it for the first one alone. Absolutely the first, and second one, actually, I like those bills.

1:46:01 Yeah. But yet, now, you ask, why is this basement on the hill? Is it? Because there's a pyramid headed dude. Stalking around with a huge sword. Nope. No. It's because of the coal fire burning beneath the town. Yep. Back in 1966, a fire started and one of the coal mining towns. Well I guess one of the and not going to say one of the cool money. Yeah there you go. Officials had tried to light a fire there too. I guess control something and it got out of control. Troll and it hit a coal vein and which led down to the mine in. Control burns aren't entirely all that like new. It's, it's something that places that have a lot of wildfires and things do consistently but I guess they just didn't do a good job.

1:46:53 No because it destroyed the entire town. I sure as fuck did. So as I went down to the mine deep in the mind it slowly began to spread I can't remember. I'm sure you probably wrote this. This down how long they think this is going to be burning for because it's already been, like 70, 80 years, isn't it? It's been 50 years. It's been 50 years. Okay. How long are they think it's going to continue burning on? They said it can burn for like another Century. Holy crap, if it's not contain, so we'll be long gone before this is Dunya. But the cool thing is that people do in Pennsylvania. At least that I've seen people do is during winter. They go out there. It's like a six hour drive for us. It's real far away, is it?

1:47:35 I heard it was way, way way. Way out and the road to get there. Now has been destroyed. Britney, you know, how to get there? Brittany, mr. Ransome, yes, you're really with deep story. Oh, I'm sorry. I thought it was really far away though. No, it's in Colombia now I got it to a GPS. We're gonna tear your story ygp. Oh my god. Oh so since the fire burns so deeply there's no real way to control it or contain it soon on the ground fire. Reach the actual Town causing the roads to split and crack and toxic smoke would start spreading start.

1:48:20 Being out of the cracks air quality, started getting dangerous and it took about 20 years before the government gave the order to evacuate town. Now, there are very few buildings left in the town, including a church, which is, I'm pretty sure they based the movie, Silent Hill awful. Because there's a church in there and that was the only safe place for them to be in. Yeah, you're right and the church there is one thing. I've been back in this area for so long. Not knowing that Centralia is like an hour and change away. I told you, it's me. Could have gone there any time now?

1:49:01 We gotta wait till next winter. Not really. No. So a part of the central area is the graffiti Highway. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I heard about that. Yeah, it was once Route 61 now in abandoned highway where everyone has been except for me. Apparently, we gotta go. Yeah. And Brittany, I guess, we take my friend Jenna. Yeah, in general joke. Oh, you know what we can't? You could see, like, if you look at pictures, I was in pictures. Okay, as you can see like the splitting of the highway where we were, the fire has reached in just a cracks and sometimes actually smoke Rises up from it. That's the part I want to see well as of last year we're not gonna be able to see it.

1:49:53 The highway was planned to be covered with dirt and have other things that have a trees and other plants planted on it, right. I heard that it was going to just become a big like place but Then what is a road? But a place that people just go, like if we just go there with you guys. Yeah, we just gone drive through the grass, but it's not a highway anymore. It was just my way anymore. It's just a big old thing. Also did that get like, you know, pushed to the side because the Covenant, I'm not sure, I didn't see, we might still be able to go before they do it when he was article. I read about it. I didn't say anything about it. Being pushed back because in 2020 when they posted it, right? They didn't say anything about it was an April.

1:50:34 When they actually We had. Actually, it was back in, you know, what's weird. We have a couple of different abandoned highways, there's another one. There's another one that's like right sort of next to a highway. Yes. Abandon turnpike I think it's a part of the turnpike that just starts turning off and then goes nowhere. Yeah. And it's like why do we do this? Look government. I've definitely seen one before and I'm like oh they're going to finish that and the answer is no. Definitely not. It's abandon and there's just a nice under past that, you know, people like to hang out and I won't be there. Exactly. So you All right, so that way, we know now is officially nobody there, because a couple years ago, there were like 10 people still there. Yeah.

1:51:22 That was in 2000, was the 2019 when what I read that the population was, I'm not sure if anyway, so I would probably still go to the ghost town. Yeah, that's where I want to go. I don't want to see the highway but we probably can't get to the highway, okay, because it's probably covered by dirt by now, let's see population 9 as a 20-19. I guess we'll find out soon because the census was just done. Yes. It's true. So if nobody is there anymore, I guess there was no wonderful. Census report out. Yeah. We'll see. We'll see. But you know, that's a cool. I yeah. I forgot about the graffiti Highway though. That's like the anything know what I've always wanted to do is that people go and they take pictures there and wintertime. Yeah.

1:52:05 Because the steam coming out of the ground is extra visible. When it's so cold. This is true. And you take cool pictures. I just remember being in high school and I was, and I found out and I Was telling people about Silent. Hills are like, you notice a real Silent Hill, right? And I was like what, where it'll like Pennsylvania in Pennsylvania. I don't like where you're like, Colombia. It was like that's like a half an hour away because I live in Lancaster at this time. Yeah. I'm like that's a half an hour away. We can go there. Anytime I noticed that I realized was so close. Yeah that's what they do. Call it the real side of Hell to I so surprising I remember after the movie came out reading something that said that the film was based off of central. Yeah and then I had to learn everything about it. But I did forget about the graffiti Highway used to be the place where everybody would just show up in chalk, all over everything and graffiti all over everything. Absolutely.

1:52:54 That was a where our Urban explorers were go. Yeah, I'm not really into urban exploring. I'm here honest, there's a think they're called, like, the proper people or something on YouTube, the something people, and they go into places all around the world that have been abandoned and they get approval to go for the most part occasionally, they just do what they want. But most of the time, they get approval to go to these locations and it's just so unnerving seeing something that was once. Flourishing recently, they went to a movie theater, that was only like 40 years old. I had been abandoned I can't and it just looked so freaky. Do you know how many freakin abandoned, amusement parks are in Pennsylvania, so many, they've gone to some of those too many.

1:53:43 There's so many ways and Knoebels is still going. Strong Scruples is going strong, it's never gonna close go. Heck noble people go there, man, I go there more. They go to Hershey Park. I actually really like the place. It's just so freaking far away. It really isn't like, well it's a stupid long, dirt, an hour and a half from here or something. Not even. I felt like when I was a kid, it took forever to get there. I'm sure in my little child brain, that was like a six hour. Drive. I just wanna go to Knoebels again and sit inside that stupid little cart for the haunted house because I was so afraid when I was little, look, we went there. What time? What year did we go there? And it goes before. Jaden was born. Was the last time I went to Knoebels and when you are babe I was a young and what he was here. Early twenties.

1:54:32 Okay. Yeah, true. True true. Listen. I think I'll go. I saw a picture of myself when I was 23 and I was like, oh look at my face. I was such a baby. So you when we later, all right, yeah, we went to with there for, like the first time for me, and I went through the haunted house, I was like this is some bullshit. I remember being terrified of it as a kid. I kept my eye screws almost the whole time and I want to go through and look at it as a grownup. Yeah. I don't really do haunted houses either because it's so I don't, I just don't like people yelling at me. He's like, I don't like people jumping out at me because I have reflexes yelling at me for A money and I have reflexes and my reflexes might tell me the punch you. I don't know. So I don't do those things because I don't want to attack somebody trying to draw, just slide your around exactly fine. But walking through a haunted house or like that, Phil the screens and stuff like that.

1:55:22 No, thank you. I'm going to those because I might go to jail for punching a worker and I'm sorry. Anyway, who's gonna do my final story today? I'm ready. All right and what's Pennsylvania? There is or was is Pittsburgh area. Okay. Um Western Pennsylvania there is or was an urban legend of the Green Man. Also known as Charlie no, face. I don't know this person. Yeah, I know. It's good, it's good. Yeah, I try to find ones that I can't spoil, you know, I'm trying, yeah, I'm sorry, like all my stories, like Brittany's, like, oh, wait a second, I do this one. Very exciting for me when I know things. Okay, so Legend, has it that?

1:56:20 There's a man that grows that glows green due to a lightning strike, or he was shocked by in an industrial accident. Who knows? But we know actually, I know, I'll tell you what. Okay, apparently he would haunt multiple places but like, multiple spots were kids used to hang out or people, you hang out at, like Parks, her lookout spots like that. But that make out spa and he would Chase off, you know, parked cars and, you know, people just loitering around the place. now, some people call this a legend, but This was an actual person is, this was an actual person walking around. Was he just pretending to be a haunted? No, no, no.

1:57:19 Why was he great? Um, so his name was Raymond Robinson. Okay, look him up. Did Raymond, just not enjoy fun. Is that the situation? No, that's not why. In 1919 when he was 8 years old, Raymond was reaching for bird's nest on On top of an electrical pole when he was shocked with 11,000 volts of electricity, which sent him falling to the ground, the shock burn his face and arms, leaving his eyes and nose completely burned off or out. Oh yeah. So it was actually is actual be wasn't actual person.

1:58:02 Oh, this is sad. So, even though this was a terrible injury for him, he was still in like, in good spirits. He didn't let his injuries get him down, there's actually get him down. Adulthood, he kept himself, he kept himself home making wallets belts you know during mads for people just so he can make some type of small income. What? He was a crafter. Look, I love crafty people, he really only left his house in a dead of night. To go for a walk as not to scare people, not to scare anyone. These are really, really thoughtful. Dude.

1:58:43 You really like against just walk in all this Sudden somebody screams and runs away. Yeah, base terrible. So this is when the story is with start beginning. When he's doing his walks, high school, kids would see him walking from the Cars along Route 351 and they just gonna go spread the word. Is this guy, he's apparently he was green because probably because of his like, flannel day, he was wearing. Yeah, I just saw a picture, he's wearing like a An army jacket. Yeah, there you go. See ya now. Your right. Is that, I guess it's a. What is that fabric?

1:59:24 Yeah, like Dickies that like fabric. What is this like, you know like those pants? Yeah, khaki. Yeah, Green khaki there. Yeah, I couldn't figure out what it was called. Army fatigues or something. There you go. Yeah, he's wearing like, one of those jackets. Sure. So many people knew Raymond, many people who knew Raymond were very friendly to him, even offering him beer for his walks. Or cigarettes, like a good time. Like everybody who knew this guy. Super cool people. People who didn't know Raymond, they were scared of him. Of course you don't see him for the first time and they'd run off and try to call the cops saying. There's some buddy out there and you need to come get him. But you know, his neighbors or people in the neighborhood, they would explain to these people.

2:00:15 Hey, don't call the cops. It's just Raymond. This is what happened to him on use Only child and you know this. Why he looks like this now, no reason to be no reason to be afraid of him. He's a cool guy. All that good stuff. Um, I guess now if you see him, he's a fucking ghost. Yeah, so some other people, unfortunately, we're cruel, they would give him rides. They pick them up off the side of the road when he's walking like, hey, I'll give you a ride home. Only to take him somewhere, he had no idea where he was going because he was blind. Yes. Yeah. This is a very wow, kind of picture.

2:00:57 Yeah. Yeah. How do you elect people are amazing? Their bodies? You mean yeah. He legitimately like I see why they people referred to him as no face like he really doesn't. He's a mouth obviously because no eyes. Yeah like his skin healed over that. So I'm like he's just Vibing with the world. Yeah. Yeah. Basically, anybody who knew him would, you know, tell you how nice he was, and how awesome he was. He did pass away from natural causes and 1985 but the legend lives on wasn't even born yet. No, neither of us were born. Yeah.

2:01:37 But yeah, but yeah, I guess they still talk about him to this day. There goes my pain, I was looking for. I was like, what the hell is it? My hair? Spooky, Pennsylvania. Those are some stories that I like, I've looked at and I wanted to do like earlier in the podcast because You know, this is where we're from. I want to, you know, give you a little heads-up and that we like spooky stuff in this is what raised us. Great stories. They were good. Good good stuff. Yeah. I definitely want to go Central. I like this still a thing I want to do but um is it the ghost him? Ghost Town?

2:02:18 Yes, I'm pretty sure it was a ghost towns around. Oh yeah we could probably visit a couple more. Oh yeah. Buts in Charlie's the one that I believe is an actually haunted, it's not haunted. I don't want to go to one. That's actually haunted. Well, good. Because we're going to get lost there and by the ghost or something. Don't get eaten by Ghosts. No. Oh, oh Brian. I know. Oh me. Anyway though, that's all we got for you tonight. Yeah. Or this morning for some of you, there's like a good 30 or 40 people who listened at like, 5 a.m. As soon as the podcast comes out.

2:03:00 Bless you all. That's very lovely. Yeah, I mean, if so, why get that time too? But as because I'm working, I'm pretty sure is why you guys are listening to get. Probably yeah, we got a couple. Belen night crew, who are with you. Yeah. Hey guys, thanks. Thanks for listening to me and thank you. If you listen, all the way through for this is last week, was the second time that we broke into the top, 100, your kind podcasts and America. So that's pretty fancy. It was awesome. And as usual, I still sell all kinds of jewelry and making Pride things for June. Yes, I can't wait. I got you some pit. I got some pens to. I'm going to be making a cool looking. You can wear a pen.

2:03:43 I can wear pants. I got it here. I got my that. You want me. Give you one ear? Yes. Just one ear. I'm good. I think it's over there. Yes, Larry give you the one. I just says, hi. I'm Pam. There you go. Appreciate it. And yeah, those are what we're doing these days. You can always find us on crease with Brian or caught podcasts on Tick-Tock. You can watch us as we are currently playing through the Each Resident Evil eight. Yes, on Twitch foxy trainer every Sunday night. Yeah, I try to get on at 6:00 6:30. What do we do? Oh well we just had her fight with our first plate with Lady Democratic demouth risk and actually you know what it she says, da mattress.

2:04:30 She says yes, that's it, listen that again, yeah. Like at the how dare you defile house dumb address or the How's da mattress bloodline? Has been fooled by you. How dare you and stuff like that? Yeah, I missed that. I'll have to do that again. When I watch somebody else play through it. Yeah, but yeah. And yeah, if you have any if you want to like leave us like an email. Absolutely. If you send an email, definitely shout you out. Just like we did last week was last week or week before, I believe it was, it was whatever it was. She responded to us. She's like I said my name and I was like, of course. Course. Yes, I think it was the week before. Okay.

2:05:10 He was a Nica but yeah, caught podcasts at gmail.com. There you go. And that's also there's like 300 people following on YouTube right now and I've only put up two of the podcast. Look, I'm working on it, I'm getting to it. I gotta work on getting some sort of some software done, I can probably I don't know, we'll get, we'll get to it. I swear over this break, I'll get it done probably But yeah, you have yourself a good night or good morning. Hey, good morning to my night crew and we'll see you next week. Yep. Bye.