Episode 5: A match made in hell: Paul Bernardo and Karla Hamolka

0:21 Hey there, everybody in serial killer country. My name is Brittany. Ransom, and my name is Brian Joyner. And this is when Killers get caught, a podcast devoted to deep Dives. Into the lives and psyches The Killers. We love to learn about every week. We discussed something new and interesting in the serial killer world and then we discuss one, well-known or lesser known killer, and go deep into their childhood lives methodology. And most importantly how they got caught. And then because most of your killer fans, love to get a little spooked, Brian will lead us down the road of the Paranormal or just something that he found to be particularly creepy this week. So in the Name of Love this February, I'll be speaking only about couples this month. My first couple are the notorious Ken and Barbie killers from Canada, Karla Homolka and Paul Bernardo and are topical situation this week. Is that New York City just discovered a new serial killer. Yay.

1:16 New serial killers, not really new or more, so they found someone they were looking for and it's pretty ridiculous because he lived in the same building as his victims. And it's been going on for a couple of years now. It's crazy. All right. Oh wait first. Then we just yeah. And if anyone notices that, there's anything different this week, it's because we are both snowed in and central Pennsylvania. So we're recording this remotely and hoping that it comes out, all right? Hopefully the and as far as Brian talks about, you know, he likes to keep that from us until it's time to spring on The Spook. Yes.

2:03 So you're not getting that until the spook time but Guys, name was Kevin? Yeah, Kevin Gavin, Gavin, Gavin. All right, and he killed three to four different, elderly women. Great. So, there are three that they know of already, but they're looking into a fourth victim as well. So, yeah, he killed. Oh, and he's elderly to, he's 66 surely. Also, this, his whole building was an elderly community, so, Okay, that makes a lot more sense now. Yeah, so he killed them all in his own building. Do we have explanations for the why yet? Um, not at this moment though.

2:52 I think it's still an ongoing investigation but Well, from what I've read it started in 2015 and the most recent one happened, Friday, that would be January 29th, right? Yesterday night. Yes, right. This and the victims are all between 78 and 83, so that's pretty intense. I did read that. The one woman who they're not sure whether it was murder or not. Well, okay. So the coroner said, it was a heart attack will correction. The police said, it was a heart attack. The coroner said she had broken ribs. Abs and have been hitting the chest. So her daughter is like yeah, that's definitely murder but nobody else really listen to the kid so that's why she thinks he's part of the so that might be a little Force wonder-working. Answer you then.

3:40 Yeah. That's the one they're looking into because I feel like how does an old lady get, you know, a broken chest wall. I mean, yeah. I was going to say, Well they're old but you know, still No, I understand people they do have brittle bones as you get older osteoporosis and things of that nature. But, mmm, an interesting thing that I saw from people who were upset about this is that people had been asking for cameras at the facility for a really long time and they believe that they would have been able to catch him a lot sooner. Had they had some level of security at the building. Well, yeah, it says that they're adding 65 more cameras, there's a building. So So maybe they had cameras are ready but they didn't have enough.

4:28 Yeah, I guess they only had four, I'm guessing probably just unlike the front door the back door that sort of thing. But they need cameras in on every floor. I mean, I know in my apartment building there are cameras at every elevator. Yeah. And the all the entrances as well. So That way. At least they can have a visual of seeing where someone came into the building and what floor they got off on. Right? Yeah, that makes sense. So apparently mr. Gavin was supposed to be like some type of handyman around the building as well, which is, which explains why he would have access. This is true.

5:13 So his first victim wasn't the one. In 2015 said, he's stabbed her in the neck with a steak Knife. That's I guess using what you have around, And you. Yeah like I think I think every all his murders were reusing stuff that he found in the apartment or their their houses and you told me when we were first just discussing, bring this up this week that these had to do with some sort of scam or money. Okay. So no, he's actually besides from being a murderer, he is also his scam orders. Okay. So did that you think maybe they found out about the scams and he took them out? Maybe no.

5:58 I mean, no, not at all. I think that was just his have nothing to do with a murder. That's exactly. Uh-oh. Listen, it comes up all the time, think of all of the different murders I've discussed so far, so many of them have ties to like ride. It's crazy. I don't, I don't know what this connection is but it's a weird one. But either way, this is an ongoing investigation. And it fits the definition of a serial killer. That's for sure. Absolutely. I mean, I mean he does have that age that your Gap, so he has 12 2015. Well, he has won or 2019 as well, and another one, I guess 2020. So he still has that. Yeah.

6:41 At least a year at least a month cooling off in between every killing though I suppose technically it counts at a different place since it was in a different apartment each time. But that's cutting that rule kind of clothes. I think there's a gray area somewhere. Yeah they're always has but what a weird thing and that's not even counting the fact that I mean there's an unsolved serial murder situation going on on Long Island in New York. Oh what? I don't know about that. No about that. Yeah. They were looking for a missing woman and they found a mass grave a couple of years ago, and they have now reopened those cases and they're trying to figure out like who killed all these women on Long Island so they're still trying to figure out I guess it's kind of a Cold Case situation now because and at one point they got a phone call that named one of the women that was in the mass grave, who knows?

7:36 Now they were buried at a beach in Long Island. So that's an ongoing thing, New York's, got a lot. Going on for it, going on in it, lovely. I guess you got a ton of 8 million people. A lot of stuff pops off. But in regards, like I said, all this month, I will only be discussing couples and not just people who kill together couples, but in actual romantic Partnerships and I actually need to give a little bit of a trigger warning. Before I jump into this, the content today is going to contain discussion of sexual assaults against children and I perfectly understand if that crosses the line for you and you don't want to listen, I will attempt to discuss it without going into any graphic detail, but I do think it's just responsible to give everybody a heads up. Underneath the info section.

8:24 On this podcast, we will give you the time stamps so you can skip over any discussion of Paul Bernardo and Karla Homolka. If this is just one of your limits, right? Right, right. Right. So for anybody who doesn't know or this is the first time you've ever heard of them, the Ken and Barbie killers were a couple from Canada who assaulted and killed at least three different miners between 1990 and 1992. They were described this way in the newspapers because they were to platinum blond standardly, Attractive people. And the world was really confused as to why they would do crimes like this on his own. Paul, Bernardo was also known as the Scarborough rapist and to gather their crimes were known as the schoolgirl killings.

9:08 Because all of them were teenage high school girls. Oh my God. So, he has three different names. He does have multiple names a bus for I discussed this monstrous couple that they were together. I kind of want to dive into, who they were before, they were serial killers. So Paul Bernardo was born August 27th, 1964 and Toronto, Ontario. He was born into a very wealthy and very dysfunctional. Family, his mother had been adopted by a wealthy Toronto attorney and given a relatively good life. Her name was Arlen. His father, Kenneth Bernardo was born to an English and Italian immigrant who created a successful marble and tile business. But his father was horribly abusive and then Kenneth Bernardo left that family business and became an accountant. So like his own father, Kenneth Bernardo within abuse, his wife, Marilyn struggled with depression from that abuse and she would begin having an extramarital affair with an old boyfriend.

10:05 It would be a, it would appear that Kenneth tolerated, his wife's Affair and we can't entirely be sure of Paul bernardo's parentage but Kenneth is listed as the father on a birth certificate Marilyn would have two children and then begin to withdraw from the relationship actually sleeping in the basement away from her family. Wow damn. Yeah. See every other statement, the Apple doesn't fall far from the tree? Yes, Kenneth Bernardo would get charged with child molestation in 1975 for touching a local child and Lee and his own daughter admitted that he had assaulted her and her childhood as well. This is more than likely. The reason Kenneth didn't mind his wife being with somebody else great because he had other.

10:51 So you sir preoccupy them? Yeah. Pretty much. Despite the tumultuous childhood Paul initially seemed unscathed by it in the book called lethal marriage. By Nick prawn, it said that Paul was a really happy child. He was a young boy who smiled a lot. But they said he was very cute. He had little dimples and that, you know, everybody who saw him just wanted to pinch them. He was the perfect child. Always polite, well-mannered did well, in school. He was a boy scout, that was until he was about 16. Paul's parents had a really terrible fight and Marilyn tells Paul. Kenneth isn't your real dad?

11:32 Oh oh, drop it like that. Oh my God. No, from that point on Paul is repulsed by his mother and refers to her as a slob and a whore. Yeah, so that relationship there is completely dead. He graduates from Sir, Wilfrid Laurier, Collegiate Institute and he goes to work for Amway which has a very tough sales culture and it's believed that that really had a large effect on him and has you know early adult years he bought every Book and Tape that he could get his hands on from those You Know Rich and Famous experts. And also those guys that teach you like how to get girls right. Yeah.

12:12 You remember those being very popular in the 90s? Oh yeah. Yeah, of course, those lovely. How to get a girlfriend book or how to get pick up, you know, pickup artist. Stuff. This is what he was indulging in these kinds of books. How to make money and get hot girls, things of that nature. I know. I know it's funny, but it's not funny because he used these techniques in a really bad way. Yeah, that's it's terrible, apparently, Paul. And his friends from Amway would practice these techniques on young women, they met in bars and they were actually really successful. And you see, the time by the time, he attended the University of Toronto and Scarborough Paul had developed these very dark sexual fantasies and he was getting off on humiliating women in public, and he this Point.

13:02 He had a physically abused. Every woman he had dated So when he meets Karla Homolka and October of 1987, the two of them are immediately sexually attracted to each other and unlike every other woman, he dated Carla actually encouraged the sexual sadism on the women around him. Speaking of Carla hurt Early, Childhood wasn't as dramatic as Paul's. She was born, Carla, Leanne Homolka, and to Dorothy and Carol Homolka May 4th 1970 in Port Credit, Ontario. She was the eldest of two siblings are actually has three siblings her, other two siblings were named Logan and Tammy, her father was a Czechoslovakian immigrant and traveling salesman with A serious drinking problem and he was indeed abusive to both his wife and his children, the sisters of originally kind of banded together through that, but I'm not entirely. So sure how close they were because of something that goes on later and I'll explain when we get to it. But regardless of that, she had a pretty normal childhood. When she was young, she liked to draw. She was thrilled to be bright and very popular. She loved animals and she would go into working with animals as her career.

14:22 So the two of them meet at a Scarborough restaurant, October 17th 1987, and they were both attending a convention in Toronto. She was 17 years old and he was 23. The age of majority in Ontario is 18 very similar to the United States and the age of consent was 14. Now they met in October, he proposed to her December 24th of the scene year and Justin heads up just in case you're still listening. I would say this is the part of the podcast where things are going to get a little sad and definitely very gross until Paul, and Karla break up. It's pretty much like this for the rest of their relationship. Okay, I would say yeah let's give you a heads-up. Let's the skin to it.

15:11 I'm not ready. But you know you know how some people get together and it just makes them better. Yep, I would say that Paul and Karla meet each other worse. Carla encourage, Paul's sadism and Paul was just enthralled with how much the stuff seemed to kind of turn him on, or turn her on. So the two of them very much fed off of each other in this way. So they both met each other's toes. Sick at Tendencies. Basically, exactly now from 1987 to 1990, they're just a regular couple and they're dating, you know, he's working in the finance field and sales field and she's working as a, she's working in a pet, like a vet clinic during that time, Paul sexually assaulted 11, women and attempted to assault several others, most of them, he met stalking them when they got off of public transportation, late at night, I'm sure to this girl, Will residents, it would seem like they're police weren't doing a whole lot, but there were a couple of times that Paul actually almost got caught after the third attack, the local police issued a public warning to all women traveling at night, especially those on buses. And then in May of 1988, he was hiding under a tree near a bus shelter, and a local cop, who was set to patrol, the area saw him and chased him, but Paul was able to evade capture then on October. 8888 October of 1988, one of his victims started screaming and he got chased by

16:44 some of the neighbors. Because what he would do is he would see the girl at the bus stop and he would follow her to her home. And most of the assaults happen either in the girls. Front yard or backyard of their own homes. Wow. What? Wow. Yeah, I'm sorry. Sorry that I hate me. Like it took me a second to day, they hit me but oh my God, and they would last from anywhere, from like, 30 to 60 minutes. So extra traumatic. It happens at your own house. I can't imagine feeling safe in your neighborhood after that, right? And you're like, so so close to being like safe, like being into your own house, but and then someone grabs you, right before you get home.

17:27 Yeah, it's my God. Yeah, it's every woman's nightmare. The her. And the thing is they they normally tend You, you know, o stranger danger? Is it a big thing? But in this case, it definitely was, he was not attacking women. He knew in real life, he was getting off on the fact that he was making these people feel unsafe, right? Just picking a random people and just, just causing her life stare. Uh-huh. All right. Sorry, it's okay between May and September of 1990. The police had submitted roughly 130, different suspects samples for DNA testing, and they will receive Of to reports that the person they were actually looking for was Paul. Bernardo the first one in June was called, in by a bank employee and I don't have a lot of details about this. I just wonder what he was doing at the bank that made somebody go.

18:20 Hmm. They did have a composite sketch from some of the victims. So I wonder if the bank teller just called it in based on the fact that he looked like the composite maybe now the second one is really interesting, so the second call was from a woman named Miss Myrna sand. She is the wife of one of Paul's close friends. Now, Tina tells the detectives that Bernardo had actually been called in on a previous rape investigation, one in December of 1987, but he had never been interviewed and she told him that he previously like he constantly bragged about his sex life to her husband and how much he liked. Analingus, rough sex and anal, sex things.

19:02 I never thought I'd say on the podcast. But here we go. Well, will you send them correctly and very scientifically? So hopefully nobody gets the tubes. Yeah, now because with Tina making this phone call, they bring in Alec stubbornness and this dude is super awkward. Like during the interview his phrasing is weird, has its tilted and it actually left the detectives kind of unsure if they could take him seriously. But after cross-checking several different files that Detectives decided to bring in Paul. Bernardo, anyway, they interviewed him on November 20th 1990 and it lasts about 35 minutes and Bernardo actually voluntarily gives them samples for forensic testing.

19:47 No, when the detectives asked, Bernardo, why do you think you're being investigated for these rapes? He goes. Yeah, I guess I do look like the, you know, Composites and the detectives after that thirty five minute interview conclude that he is just too well educated, well adjusted and congenial of a young man. He couldn't possibly be responsible for such vicious crime. And this is a direct quote, he was far more credible than Alex. Smyrna says, who with his awkward strange way of speaking, might be trying to collect the reward? God what what? You know, it's all listening, always happens, isn't it?

20:28 Police always have the guy and then they let him go, I know, but he had waited another person. Tell him that. Yeah, this is the guy you're looking for is a bank teller, right? Mmm. And you just are just like, no, no, no. You guys aren't right? No, no, look at this guy. This guy. No, right so well they brought in I guess they brought in the wrong Smyrna this because Tina was the one who was like yeah that dudes a creep but they broke and her husband instead and her husband's like I don't know like maybe I don't want to tell him. My friend. Was he dead? I mean so he's just weird and awkward and so the police just assume that the smartest is are trying to collect the reward for information about the rapist.

21:11 So they think that they're just lying. Why would you bring in there? The husband's Soul winning the way. Wife is the one who told you about this. I don't know. Oh my God. We'll get into the, the inquiry. That happens about this, okay? Okay, at the end. But Paul is released the next day. Well, he's released. And then the next day, he takes a trip with Carla and he promises her. That he is not the Scarborough rapist. So we move into the next chapter of their lives, which I would say, which are then when they begin victimizing, people together in 1990, Bernardo is spending large amount of time with the Homolka family and they liked him very much.

21:56 He's engaged to the oldest daughter but he flirts constantly with the youngest one, who's 15. He has not told anyone in the family that he lost his job as an accountant. And instead has been smuggling cigarettes across the u.s. Canadian border to make. Money. I mean, well, at least you're making some type of money, I guess. Just, you know, violating a whole lot of laws just illegally. So, you know, you could, you know, throughout the whole time we could have got a legit job but, you know, it's whatever I guess, mmm-hmm. Exactly. So, but during this time and he's living with the mocha family, the two of them are living together and they're engaged.

22:37 You know, he's kind of obsessed with Tammy Homolka to the point where he is looking at her window entering her room to masturbate while she sleeps. Oh my God Carla even helps him peep by breaking the blinds to her sisters window so that Bernardo can see when he walks by and what the fuck. I'm the heck I'll gets worse, it gets worse in July of 1990, he takes Tammy across the border to get beer for a party and then when they come back, Bernardo tells Carla that they got drunk and began making out when they were across the border.

23:18 And over that summer, he supplies Tammy and her friends with gifts food and sodas. That is the direct quote to had a film, and a few white flecks on the top. Oh my God. So you just have to decide what drug you think? That is, he was supplying these children with, but mind you Tammy and her friends are all 15 years old. And this man is now in his, he's Almost 30. So, what could come on, dude? Okay. All right. All right, not like this. I know, I know, six months before this Carla had stole an anesthetic agent called halothane from the clinic that she worked at and the issue here was that apparently Paul was kind of hung up on the fact that when he met Carla, she wasn't a virgin and so Carla decided that she was going to give her sisters.

24:17 Need to Bernardo for a Christmas present, how kind of her she's such a sweet. Loving girlfriend to do such a lovely, lovely thing. Oh my God. So one, December 23rd. They plied the sister with sleeping pills and alcohol and when she was unconscious Tammy then also administered the halothane on her sister's nose and mouth. So they like triple got her sedated and with their parent like the parents upstairs. They videotape themselves. Raping the girl and her baby.

24:59 Basement bedroom, God sometime during the event Tammy began to vomit and aspirate it on it and they tried to revive her. And then they called 911 but not before hiding the evidence. They read rest her and moved her back into her bedroom and a few hours later she was pronounced dead at st. Catherine's General Hospital, never regaining Consciousness, my God. Now, here's another part where I kind of poke at the, the police here and everyone else in the Because they call 911. And of course they alert the family to it and they also vacuum and wash clothes in the middle of the night. And despite the presence of a chemical burn on Tammy's face, the Niagara Regional corner and the Homolka family except the couple's version of events, which is that it was an accidental death.

25:56 She choked on her vomit after consuming too much alcohol. Oh really. Yes. And I'm what? Nope, no one looks into that one. Further closed case, move it on. Here's a fun and not fun. Fact, apparently Carla would make other videos of her wearing her sister's clothes and pretending to be her. Oh my God, they found those videotapes at the end. So That's also pretty grotesque night, I'm sorry. But after that, they move out of the Homolka house to a house in Port to Lucy to allow her parents to cope with their grief Port Port de Luci is a, like, a neighborhood in the city of st. Catharines and almost instantly, as soon as they are permanently, moved into st.

26:57 Catherine's Paul rapes. Another girl and this time she was 14 and it happened during the daytime. So it was almost like he was trying to do something, not typical that he did in Scarborough, right? I know this is yeah. When he claims to his girlfriend that I'm not the rapist, believe me. Well, I think at this point, it doesn't matter. This is true. She is 100% in on that. Yeah. Today's episode of when Killers get caught, is brought to you by the magic claps Boutique which happens to be company owned by a very own Britney.

27:42 Ransom, if you seen Brittany and her live streams, she's always rocking some awesome earrings. That she herself makes from cute ice cream earrings, too spooky mermaid earrings. She even makes self-defense keychains so you can look stylish and protect yourself. At the same time, the magic class Boutique is going to release some special jewelry for a podcast next month. So keep an eye out for that as well to learn more. More go to www.michelintransport.com. So, the two of them, get married, and while working at a pet shop, in this new city, Carla meets a 15 year old girl and on June 7th, 1981, Carl invites the girls her home to hang out.

28:29 They go shopping, they have dinner and then she gives her a drink lace with a drug called Halcyon that she's stolen from her job. She then calls, Bernardo, and tells him. You're writing present is ready. They also film themselves. Assaulting this girl. And when she only, she doesn't die, she wakes up and she just believes that she's hungover because it's the first time she ever had alcohol. She'd actually realized that she had been assaulted. This happened several more times and actually one night Carla, almost kills her, by giving her too much of the drug. And she calls 911 and then she calls them back and it's like, okay, never mind. We're good. Oh my God and they don't I show up at the house. They don't show up the house.

29:12 Nope, they do. They do not send 911. One Night in December mind you. She met that girl in June. So in December, while they're all sober, Carla, tries to pressure, the team to have sex with her husband and a teen girl just gets upset and leaves and stop speaking the color from that point on they don't ever mention her name. Any news articles because she was underage when it happened and I believe under age when they got caught so they protected her identity. Okay, so we move into the next victim Paul. All would be driving through Burlington and run across a 14 year, old girl named Leslie mahaffy. And she had been locked out of her house after missing her curfew, and he makes a joke about breaking into her neighbor's houses and she asks for a cigarette and he says, sure I have them in my car.

30:09 And when they get to the car, he blindfolds her and forces her into the car and drive, Is home to tell his wife, they have a new playmate. They again take turns torturing her and filming it and assaulting her there too. And there's even one moment during the video, something that they actually showed during the trial where Paul says the next two hours are going to determine what I do to you. Right now, you're scoring perfect. Mmm. Yeah. Okay, the direct the, the quotes just Unfortunately, for Leslie, it would escalate when her blindfold slipped and it would seem that. That is when they decided to kill her, Bernardo claimed that Homolka gave her a lethal dose of Halcyon. The next day, Homolka claimed that Bernardo strangled the girl, regardless, they put her body in the basement and then planned for karla's family to come visit for the day. God this school or normal lives.

31:19 Yep. Her mom dad and other to sit well, one other sister at this point because the other ones gone visit for the day, then later on that night, the two of them, decided the best way to handle, this would be to dismember her and put her pieces in cement. And then Carla makes multiple trips to Lake Gibson, which is very close to the house. We're talking about like less than 5 kilometers. I believe it said it's very close to their house. So not only did she do. That she dumped it somewhere. Absolutely too close and she wasn't the smartest because the thought process here is, if you're going to dump like a body with cement, you can't do it on the side of the lake. You probably need to like, take a boat out in the middle or something.

32:05 Yeah, regardless two weeks later, a father and son are fishing and see the pieces of cement resting against the shoreline and they report it and the police take it and they're able to verify Leslie's. Leti, because she had an Orthodontic Appliance in her mouth, which usually have serial numbers. All right, so within two weeks, they already know that this one girl has been killed. And I have to wonder because maybe they were just scared or maybe having the videos, they took somehow sated, their weird desires temporarily, but it's almost a year before they kill again. They go out this time on purpose. Looking to abduct someone, it's April 16th 1992, just before Easter.

32:55 They see a 15 year old girl. She's leaving Catholic School, most of the, actually things, the Thursday before Good Friday. So it's like the last day of school before the long weekend. and they pull ahead of her into a Parking lot, and Paul Heights, and Carla looks at a map. And she's, you know, pretending to be very confused. And when the 50 year old girl, Kristen French, Tries to help Carla Paul ambushes her and they throw her into the car. Over the next three days they take themselves assault and Kristin but unbeknownst to Karla and Paul Kristin's parents knew right away that something was wrong. They knew that her route home from school was only 15 minutes. She was not the type of girl to just walk off and go somewhere without letting them know.

33:46 And so they did not wait long at all before calling the police and the police and unbeknownst to Paul and Karla they had left witnesses to the abduction. On top of that, her shoe. Who was left at the site where she was grabbed. So, within 24 hours, they have a very good picture. The police have a good picture of what happened here, that it was very serious. And they mobilize a task force to begin looking for her. Also, also write this is when police are actually doing what they're supposed to do. So it's April 18th and Paul is out buying pizza. And one of Paul's previous victims named Carrie Patridge saw him and report him to the police, they had previously by Her case. But it put Paul on alert because I think the two of them saw each other and they would decide to kill Christine the following morning before going to Easter dinner at Carla's family's house.

34:39 Oh my God! I know it's so nice. Police would find Kristen's body in a ditch on April 30th 1982 in Burlington, which is about 45 minutes from st. Catherine's and strangely close to the cemetery where Leslie Lee Mahaffey was buried, and I don't think that was accidental. Her hair had been cut off, and her body had been washed as a forensic countermeasure There are many other situations where Carla encouraged Paul as the Scarborough rapist. Originally, it seemed like she didn't know but in my opinion I don't know. There wasn't a way that she knew like when they were going through the house and I'll explain it was incredible. The process.

35:28 The police took to go through the house but they found clippings of a sexual assault that happened in Hawaii, when Paul and Karla, On their honeymoon. Like he kept all of the news clippings and it fit his General Mo so he raped someone right after they got married. Oh my God, just how atrocious. So so lovely, the police ultimately only confirmed, 13, sexual assaults and at least six attempts, but I think that there were a lot more. Now, we kind of get into sort of the aftermath of the situation with the two. Teen girls at this point Homolka and Bernardo have been questioned by the police.

36:14 Several different times first in connection with the Scarborough rapist investigation, than with Tammy Homolka, is death with, Bernardo stalking, three, different women and that's all before the death of Kristen French. And every time they brought Paul in previous cops, just thought he was such an unlikely suspect. He's just so well, well spoken, well that all changes May 12 1992, a sergeant, and a constable interview, Paul again and then three days later, a green ribbon task force is created to investigate the murders of Leslie, mahaffy and Kristen French Paul, and Karla must have sensed the walls or kind of closing in on them because they applied to have their names changed legally from Bernardo and Homolka. Teal, which Paul Bernardo got from the movie from a movie from, in 1988, where the villain was a serial killer. So it wasn't even that clever.

37:12 But regardless, we did. You steal. Did you get the movie? What it was, it was it was called criminal something. Ah, I didn't write it down the way I apparently. Missed. One of the words. Give me a second. I'll find it. I'm sorry. No, no, it's fine. It's called criminal law. Oh yeah, never seen it. Okay. No, it's a, it was filmed in Quebec, so it's a friend, it's probably in front. Okay. But it's a movie called criminal law and it's about this attorney who defends a wealthy, man, I guess, yeah. No, actually, the wealthy man is Kevin Bacon. Maybe we would have seen this week. Hey, Kevin Bacon, it's the Kevin Bacon movie.

37:53 Oh, my goodness, I did not see it. But either way, he gets that name. Name from the villain who is played by Kevin Bacon at the end of May and 1982 a man by the name of John modal and acquaintances of Paul. Bernardo also reports Bernardo as the possible murder suspect. Oh my God, they're coming for you buddy. They're coming in early, December 1992, the Centre of forensic science. Finally begins testing DNA samples, provided by Paul Bernardo three years earlier. I can only get mmm-hmm, I can only assume that Paul was starting to feel the stress here. He's being interviewed repeatedly and he makes I would say a pretty big mistake.

38:38 Because on December 27 1982, he would be his wife. Karla Homolka with a flashlight hitting her on the arms, legs head and face. Initially she claims she was in a car accident and went back to work on January 4th but Carlos coworkers are skeptical and someone actually called her parents. And her parents show up at her house on January 5th, and physically remove her from home. They take her to the local hospital st. Catharines General Hospital, her injuries are documented, and she gives a statement to the police claiming. She's a battered spouse and files. Charges against Bernardo. There you go. He's a rest. Hmm, he's arrested and later, released on his own, recognizance and Homolka moves in with her aunt, uncle and Brampton.

39:23 I can only say, the next section, I would call the net begins to close in twenty six months after the samples have been submitted Toronto. Police are informed, that Paul barnardo's, DNA matches that of this girl, bro, racist, and the immediately placed him on a 24-hour surveillance, I see match. Hmm, the Metro Toronto Sexual Assault Squad investigates, they interview Homolka and that happens. 1983, despite telling them despite the Despite telling her their suspicions about Bernardo Homolka, only concentrates on the fact that he abused her, then later that night after the interview, she tells her aunt and uncle that her husband is the Scarborough rapist.

40:13 And that she was also involved in the rapes and murders of Leslie, mahaffy and Kristen French, and that they recorded them. Hmm, the police simultaneously decided to reopen the investigation into Tammy Homolka is death. On February 11th 1983. Carla meets with the a Niagara Falls lawyer named George Walker. Seeking full immunity from yes. In exchange for cooperation and she gets placed under 24-hour surveillance to on February 14th. George Walker meets with Maurice, de Gaulle, who's the director of What's called the crown criminal law office in Canada. He tells Walker tells essentially the equivalent of like America are DEA about the rapes and the videotapes and Seagal says, there's absolutely no way we can offer this girl full immunity that's outrageous.

41:11 Yeah. Like, I mean, I don't blame him like she was involved in all those. He's absolutely. So the Metro Sexual Assault Squad and the green ribbon task, force arrest, Bernardo on numerous charges on February 17th 1933 and they obtained a search warrant. Now the Cuz bernardo's links to the murders are very weak. The warrant contains limitations so no evidence. That was not explicitly listed in. The warmint, on the warrant could be removed from the property and any videotapes. The police found had to be viewed in the house. Damage to the house would be kept to a minimum. The police were not allowed to Tear Down the Walls to look for the tapes. The search of the house including updated, warrants lasted 71 days.

41:59 And the only tape they find is a very small segment of Karla Homolka. Performing oral sex on the young girl that she took out that one night, the Jane Doe that they were, they didn't mention in the papers. So, I'm a fifth 1993. Her lawyer is informed that the governor is going to offer for the government is going to offer her. A 12-year sentence. Plea bargain. And she has one I'm weak to accept it if declined, they would charge her with two counts of first-degree murder and one count of second-degree murder along with other climes, her attorney with the wisdom that only you get from an attorney, he accepts on the spot and then Homolka later agrees to it smart, smart, because he recognized this was the best deal.

42:49 She was gonna get. Yep, Evergreen, get into better. Let me 14th, the plea agreement is signed and she begins giving her statements. To the investigators about Paul. This plea bargain is been really criticized by many Canadians because Paul barnardo's, first defense lawyer whose name was Ken, Marie withheld, the videotapes for 17 months. Apparently, when Paul knew they were coming for him, he removed them from the house and gave them to his lawyer. Really? Yes. These were considered crucial evidence and prosecutors say that they would have never agreed to a plea bargain, if they have been able to see those tapes in the beginning.

43:31 In fact Murray was later charged with obstructing justice and face a disciplinary nari hearing, with the Law Society of Upper Canada, like he almost lost his ability to be an attorney. I mean, get because of that. Yeah, like why would you even, why would you even think that was an okay thing to do? He was defending his book as a. Yeah, put little jerk-off know even as a regular like a lawyer you cannot do that. You're not supposed to and Yeah, Carl, testifies against him to get that 12 year sentence. Paul is given a life sentence with possibility of parole after 25 years. But a year later, he was deemed a dangerous offender which is apparently a very serious title given to certain criminals in Canada.

44:18 He is still in jail and despite being kept in isolation in every prison that he's ever been in. He is not that the best time and any time he's been around other inmates, he gets attacked, I can see why I'm me too. I'm not entirely surprised now in 2006 Bernardo would admit to ten additional sexual. Assaults that happened in 1986 before he even met Karla Homolka. So that time period where he was out there humiliating women and you know using his pickup artist techniques he was also raping women too. Interestingly enough, the gall he was eligible for parole, I believe in the early 2000 watts and he applied for parole in both 2015 and 2018, and who has denied.

45:06 When, yeah, his lawyers. Don't think he'll ever actually get out of prison because of that dangerous offender title that's been added to his name. I hope he doesn't an interesting fact is when he was given these psychopathy checklist the same one that they gave to Aileen wuornos in the states, he scored a 35 out of 4. Be getting a 30 would deem you a psychopath. So he almost answered all of the questions, like, someone who is a psychopath, would know my God. So yeah, no, no, that's okay. You just stay where you're at. As for Carlos, family after learning that their eldest daughter was, the reason why their youngest daughter died.

45:47 It would believe. It's a Carlos mother would have to be hospitalized roughly every The year around between Thanksgiving and Christmas time which is the time period that her daughter was murdered. Her family has not done well with this, as for Carla before. She did her 12 years, they evaluated her extensively by professionals, and they've come up with more questions than answers. One of her therapist said, she remains something of a diagnostic mystery despite her ability to present herself very well. There is a moral vacuity in her, which is difficult. not impossible to explain which to me sounds like Karla Homolka as a bit of a sociopath Apparently trying to dig into this really highlighted the complexities and challenges of Behavioral Studies on women suspected of Psychopathic, Straits, because so many of those traits are related to masculinity and maleness the various different masks that the Fimo psycho the female Psychopathic killer displays have to do more with the audience and the manipulation happening at that moment that will benefit the psychopath. Then the true nature of the person. So they Were really get a full scope of who she is, essentially, depending on who Carla is talking to, she is a completely different person, not in a sense that she has multiple personalities, but that she sort of bends her her will and her morality based on who she's

47:17 talking to Great. Okay. So she's which makes her hard diagnose. I kind of want to say she's kind of like code switching a little bit, not quite, but a little bit. I think that's a really interesting thing to see. think about somebody who You don't really ever know where you stand with that person, right? Yeah man, by the name of dr. Graham Clancy. He's a forensic psychiatrist who was hired by Paul bernardo's defense lawyer. Offered an alternative Theory, which I think you'll find very interesting Brian. Okay. It's listen, his book called invisible darkness, which is about this case and he says, direct quote.

47:58 She appears to be a classic example of hybristophilia and individual sexually. Caused by a partner's violent tendencies. Come on boy it's funny how these things keep it's just lying around for us this is lining up it is oh my God. Like so serendipitous so a different psychiatrist thinks that Carla was aroused and turned on by the fact that her husband was a murderer and a rapist and it seems like she was I definitely don't buy that. She was a battered woman who was forced to do this. No, she definitely helped him. She wanted to see that stuff happened. So she was released and she relocated to Montreal and 2006 she tried to change her name and they decline that and 2007 she had a baby and moved to MTS in the Caribbean. So her child could have a normal life and she had two other kids and she got married.

48:54 She moved back to Canada and ended up in Quebec and 2016 where any attempts to talk to her about that time in her life are met with just straight anger, she will not talk to lawyers. She is not having it parents of the The chill of parents with children who are attending the same school as her kids actually tried to stop her from being able to even go to the school or attend even PTA meetings. But the school board, ultimately supported Carla. I mean, as of January 2020, she lives in salaberry Diwali field alone without her children, or her husband. And interestingly enough when Canadians were pulled 63% of them believe that they have the right to know where Carla Homolka is living 18 percent. Say she should get some kind of anonymity and 18%. Pretty much said, maybe offer her some anonymity in about 50 years.

49:49 I mean that's that's what. Yeah. Sorry go ahead. I just thought it was funny. I mean I mean that's kind of she's kind of like a predator though. Right? I wouldn't trust her around each other exactly, especially not teenagers. So, what you, what do you do with Predators? You get to know where the hell they live. So I agree with people thinking that they should know where she lives, so they can stay away from where she's at. So, you would be part of the 63% game, right now, the last thing I want to discuss is just what happened to the cops. So after barnardo's 1985 conviction, the Ontario lieutenant governor appointed a man by the name of Archie Campbell to review the roles.

50:30 Played by the police during the investigation, a year later, he released a report and he said that the lack of coordination cooperation and Communications by police and other elements of the judicial system, contributed to a Serial Predator falling through the cracks. And this is actually, I guess a really positive thing that came from this horrible, horrible situation because he recommended they an automatic case, an automated case management system for the Ontario Police, Those to use in investigations like these with homicide and sexual assaults. So Ontario happens to be the only place in the world with this type of computerized case management system and it's called Power case.

51:13 And since 2002 all Municipal Police Services in the Ontario Provincial Police have access to it, which allows them to access anything from any case that has happened in Ontario, wow. It's the kind of thing that we are trying to do it. America and failing miserably at it. One day, one day, maybe one day we can learn from our neighbors to the north, you know? Because that would be a really useful tool to essentially, link up all United States police. Right? Yeah, but as of right now, only Ontario has it. That is where I leave you with my story. Oh, wow!

51:56 I know you. It was a horrible, horrible story. But Trot it so great. Oh, you're very nice. This was really, this was really hard for me. This was hard for me to research. This was hard for me to write. I pushed it off as long as possible. I didn't even finish it until halfway through the day. Children being harmed, just hits me so deep. I work with kids. I've worked with kids for most of my life. I can't imagine doing the kinds of things or harming kids in this way. Yeah, I feel you want to percent there because I do have children. And yeah, and it's just, it's, it's scary like to think about that kind of stuff.

52:37 And anytime you do anything, I I think about the fact that all of the children who I work with their parents have to put their trust in a bunch of strangers. Exactly watching their children all the time. And this case these, I mean, this case he was attacking teenagers and young adults when they were just walking home. But I mean, Teachers have background checks to though. So we do we do. But unfortunately, that doesn't stop people who never harmed before. You can only the background, check only exposes people who've gotten in trouble. So it's, it's still it's an unsteady connection for both of us. We're worried about the parents and the parents are worried about us.

53:22 And everybody is trying their best to make sure we do right by the kids right here, which we trust each other. But we're like I got my eye on you buddy. Oh yeah, because part of my job is also monitoring the children and making sure nothing bad is happening to them at their homes, right? So it's vice versa there, keeping an eye on us and we're keeping an eye on you, so hopefully the checks and balances, make sure that nobody ever falls through the cracks and kids don't get hurt. Yeah, that's true. But maybe you can turn the tide and make the rest of this podcast, a little less sad bright. I'm hoping this story helps everybody. Buddy, get through what they just listen to because I'm I think it'll help a little bit.

54:20 It'll give you I'm here for you. Okay? So this story is a branch off of my story last week about the Mothman. So can you guess what? This story is about, is this going to be about the cool sheep thing? The Sheepsquatch? Yeah. No, Sheepsquatch. Today, what were the other ones we talked about? We talked about a Sheepsquatch, we talked about it, we talked about the chief squats, the Grafton monster, the Flatwoods Monster, Oh yeah. The big thing that looks like a giant sludge Monster. Not this. That's not we're not talking about this. No. No we're not talking about those. Those are cool though. I know. Are we talking about more stuff from West Virginia? The sort of yes, okay, okay.

55:07 Get a little closer. I don't know a lot about Cryptids though, that's really your area of expertise, okay? So what if I sing a song to you, are you gonna sing? But yeah, just give you just fill in the blanks and what you think is that the so this is like a little game show, okay. Okay. Are we ready? Okay. here, come the You said here, come here, come the right. Here comes the Keep going. Galaxy the fenders.

55:48 Oh, here come the Men In Black. Yeah, there we go. It took me a moment. There had to dig back to like nineteen ninety four or five 1997. Was it 97? I thought it was weird earlier than I thought it was little when I came out. Okay. Yeah. This is horrible Men In Black or scary. It's better than what you were talking about. Give me one sec. I actually, hold on a sec. That's right. I'm talking about the Men in Black. All right? And no I'm not talking about the the hit movie from 1997 starring Will Smith and Tommy Lee Jones, I'm talking about.

56:35 It's a fantastic movie. I love that movie so much. I'm talking about the Real Men In Black even though that song is still really good and like I said, it's been In my head. So, is this what you're telling about the other day? Like it's so hard. It was so like it was so hard not to sing it because it's been stuck in my head all week and it was like, I just want to sing it so bad. Oh, oh, I love it. Okay. So this is also not a like a type of scary story but it's a but the Men in Black are so creepy.

57:17 That, you know, I found it interesting. So I had to cover it. Hmm. All right. So remaining bet the Men in Black or supposed to be, you know, men and dressed in black suits who claimed to be some type of government officials or government agents, who try to cover up UFO, sightings by harassing or threatening the witness is, you know, to keep quiet About what they've seen. Well, you said last week that certain people who said they saw the Mothman also meant Men In Black. This is true in a ho get to that later. I'm remembering I'm remembering. Okay good. So a little description, a little, are you tiny description about the Men in Black?

57:58 Any, there's not really much to go off of, so they're always dressed in a black suit actually sometimes, they are dressed in like a military. Where as well. They lack human emotion in the one YouTube video. I saw that supposedly had Men In Black. They were like, real, big like, tall taller than everybody else. Yeah, yeah, they were like walking into a building and I like the other people that were near them were much shorter. And I'm just so, so mostly at everage their Heights or about like six foot. Okay.

58:39 So you and Tom Taller. Yeah. Okay and they're always there, mostly always mail but there are some cases of females as well. So women in black, I've never heard of that. Yeah. And they have pale skin and exotic facial features. So, there are like, I remember there was a case of one that was like Asian men in black. So, That's the thing. Okay. Yeah, so before I go ahead, go ahead. No no I just never heard of a woman in black, that sounds weird.

59:25 All right, so before I truly get into this, I'm just going to say that topics like men in black there. It's there is hmm. Like so little on the web about them so I can look them up. So I had to, you know, Do a really deep deep dive into a really great book. So you have later analog. Yeah. So I had to get into like a nice book, just to get some information about it. So what I'll be telling you for my segment or basically Men In Black encounters, you know, accounts from people who have met them in Black.

1:00:10 So that's hopefully Lee that is good enough for you guys and hopefully you guys enjoy it. There's also some theories about who the Men in Black are and I'll be getting to that later as well. So without further Ado, let's get into our first story. Give us a lot of pages. Yes. Okay. So let's start our stories off with this is basically like the first reported or recorded information about the Men in Black, okay? Okay.

1:00:52 So what was this is actually the first person who may have seen a man, a man in black, or Men In Black part of Cisco back. So this goes back to the 1940s But I do believe that they have been around much longer. Okay, so, so let's talk about a man named Albert Bender. This is 1940s. This guy was into stranger paranormal stuff, like he probably fit in who at this time period, like he was into, I thought you were gonna say he fits in with us, he does.

1:01:35 So he like he he would look out into the sky with his telescope trying to like catch a glimpse of a flying saucer. So, his obsession began with a disappearance of Flight 19. They have you know a flight 19 is no I don't think I've heard of it. Okay, Flight 19, so so goodness, what years, okay? It's 19 1945, December 5th, 1945, five Avenger class bombers, they were leaving. I think it was a Florida and they had disappeared over the Bermuda Triangle. Okay, okay, so one of those.

1:02:18 Yeah. So this is like, the, I guess one of the first case of planes disappearing above the upper M triangle, and that's another story altogether. a triangle stuff is very Yeah, that's it's all it's all just oh my God. Is it a portal is? It's a reporter was some where the planes just lose, you know, whatever. We're gains at some other time, okay? So he even like he hadn't addict with his, I guess he lived in his stepdads house so he lived in the Attic. So This is where he would look out into the sky with his telescope. So he painted the walls of his room, with faces of creatures, like horrific nightmares creatures, the no don't like it. So he made it his little, his little room of Horrors. So in just in December of 1950, he starts getting really really into flying saucers.

1:03:23 He even gets human, got a group of people to create a network of UFO investigators. It's called a net, the international Flying Saucer Bureau or the ifs. Be okay. No, the ifs be blew up so eautiful. Oh my God, I'm sorry. I can't right now. So UFO disciples from all over the world started sending in reports of sightings to be, you know, to the you to, the is a Thai FSB and a ton of people. Hmm. So I ask you a question. Yeah. Are you a Believer like the ifs be absolutely of UFOs? Yes.

1:04:09 Absolutely. Do you believe it's like them like little green man and flying saucers do. I think it's a little different. I think it's different, I mean this it can't, it can't. They can't all be the same. I mean, we're not all the same. Yeah, I think they'd be different to. I'm just really freaked out by the whole concept of the little gray men. Like if I saw like a little gray person with the big head and the weird arms I'd probably freak out, okay, you know, you're being a racist right now to aliens. It's just those aliens, I like all the Star Wars aliens. They're all very unique and interesting people who wouldn't have nobody look. Smoove. No Other alien looks like them. That would be great. I don't know where the gray man idea came from but it's creepy.

1:04:54 Yeah. Sorry to interrupt you. I don't think I was like how much do you believe in this? You know, I really dive into it. Okay where was I adds? Oh yeah. So a ton of people want to join as well but ifif, SB is big news. Yes, so Albert, Benders stain. Is I FSB guy came to say I spelled it out so many times so he's, they wouldn't last long and it's believed that. The next next account is the beginning of the end for Him. Oh, so yeah, so July 30th 1952 bender gets an anonymous call. When he picks it up, the phone there is no answer but you can tell that there's someone on the other line. He needs those calls are the worst. Yeah, I know great.

1:05:56 You just hear someone like you can just tell someone's their breathing. Yes. Or maybe not even breathing, you just sense that someone's there. Don't like it. So his head starts to hurt and he gets like a dizzy spell so he has to bed after like this. Is him on the phone. Him being on the phone made his head hurt. So is this like from the movie? They had like the little. What's the word they have? The little thing that messes with your eyes. Only, this was his ears. You're talking about the nor eliezer's. Yes. Like an ear neuralyzer? Mmm. Not really. Okay. Because I makes you forget this one. Just wanted to call some pain. Okay.

1:06:39 So after after this event Days Later, he's heading home from the movies. It's late at night and he has this feeling that something malicious is following him. Oh no, he makes. He makes it home fine though. So he like nothing happens on his way home. So he's heading to his room in the attic and he noticed he notices, a weird glow coming from underneath the door and his room. What. Yeah, so please he didn't go in there, right? He just turned around and walked away. Hid in the bathroom or something? No no he didn't do that. Okay so he flings the door open and is greeted to this view so it automatically like as soon as he steps in and gets the smell of sulfur and he sees a bright shimmering object like of whirring in his room.

1:07:39 So let me just note that this man has OCD. He's really OCD about things, okay? Hmm, I'm just going to what that rate, right? Real quick. So do you mean he actually was OCD or he is really particular know? He's I'm guessing he's really particular but the book noted that he may have OCD as well, okay. Okay, so Let's see. Let's see, let's see. Okay, so as soon as he like opens the door, you see is the object, the object starts hurting his eyes. So, and I guess some reason this made sense to him and his head, he turns on his room light instead, and the shimmering object just disappears. So I mentioned he was OCD right?

1:08:32 Hmm. So when he was in his room, he noticed that someone had been going through his eye FSB files mmm-hmm and like he could he could just tell that someone was going through them because they were not where he had them last time. Like I said it was CD. So he's like I know what, I had this at their should, like there should be nobody going in my room and touching my stuff. Right now. Gotcha. So do you think Albert? Let these strange things? Stop him from Living his life. Probably not. No no. But that would just mean that they were coming to bite him in the butt later.

1:09:15 Okay, so he goes to the movies again. So he had a thing for sci-fi. He love Sci-Fi movies. So again, it'll double feature on. Yeah, of course, I'm not sure. He can't. What was out at this time? It's there was a say 1950. So whatever. Awesome. Sci-Fi movies were out at that time. Here I saw Mama. Yeah, he's home. You bet, he's all more So, you sit and chill. Enjoy the movie when you feels a strange dread and that he's being stared at. So after corner of his eye he spots a figure materialize near him. It's a guy dressed in dark clothes and Arthur's, I keep saying Arts, that's a l. Have insane or sir Albert.

1:10:02 Okay, good, his name is Albert. So so Albert's head his starts. I don't know why. I thought, I just thought a said our Surfer like as quick second. You're good. No, no. Okay. You, you need to get back on the point that he saw something materialize because I didn't think the Men in Black had magic powers. And so, I'm very unsettled right now and I need you to continue where you were, okay? Okay. So his Albert's head, it starts feeling dizzy again like today before like the a few days back when his, you know, when he answered the phone, You remember that? And he's and he's feeling nauseous, just like the old Uncle. So he closes his eyes to relieve the stress and her pain.

1:10:43 And then when he opens them, the man is gone. Anybody sees the man for a second time at the movies and at like at this point he just freaks out when leaves he just like I'm done I'm getting out of here. I'm going home no more movies today for me, please. This is I don't like it, so just I thought they were real people. Now they this, they can materialize, you don't know, or you don't even know you can't, I'm gonna get into it. So he would continue to see suited men for the next few months, and also continue to have dizzy spells as well.

1:11:28 So reportedly, there was a poetic if there was Poltergeist activity and that sulfur smell came back as well. So dropped these once, he had Poltergeist activity and he could still smell the sulfur. I'm just saying. You said this wasn't going to be scary, but I'm spooked right now. It's not that scary. It's just very educational and very interesting. so, So this guy he was going through a tough time at this point and it will only get worse from there. So every time I stop at like a section, it only gets worse after that.

1:12:12 Poor Albert. Yeah. So one day Albert is visited by, not one, not two, but three men in black. So this guy is going through, hell ready? So the heat are really need to see the all these motherfuckers that all these guys showing up at his house. They knocked on the door, they show up. Okay? So they knocked you know they basically not last time the one time they were in his bedroom. Okay. Well that wasn't a man in Black. That was shimmering object. I don't know, I don't know either. So maybe just time days wanted to confront him you know, men to men. Okay.

1:12:57 Yeah. So they tell him all, they tell them to dark proof of the of the UFO presence in our world. Now, why would he tell him this? So they cannot murder them. We got the so close. So they could threaten his life, of course. So they warned him like every good bad guy in a movie. Yeah, I know. So they warned him not to tell anyone what he was towed under any circumstances. Has a less. He quote had some say to see. Why is it so funny to hear?

1:13:39 I don't know. It's just I'm really giggly right now. I'm sorry. So he has he has somebody unless he had some quote, say this wish to incur their immediate and deadly wrath, which he certainly did not. So how do we know about what happened here? Obviously, he wasn't that scared, so but Bender is scared for his life at this point. So he quits the ifs. I f SB and leaves his members with this meshes, We would like you like to print the full story in the space review, which was a little Zen, they had for a further members, but because of nature of the info, we are sorry that we have been advised in a negatives.

1:14:38 So, we advise those engaged in saucer work to, please be very cautious. So, basically, he's giving out a warning to know all the members that, hey, there are guys out there, they are tried to stop you, they will threaten you, they will follow you around. Be careful, right? And this, this would be the first of many of the MIB stories. And I'd like to say miv, but the Men in Black stories So there are many encounters like this one, but I have two more I want to share it.

1:15:21 They're my favorites. Today's episode of when Killers get caught, is brought to you by the magic claps Boutique which happens to be company owned by a very own Britney. Ransom, if you seen Brittany and her live streams, she's always rocking some awesome earrings. That she herself makes from cute ice cream earrings, too spooky mermaid earrings. She even makes self-defense keychains so you can look stylish and protect yourself. At the same time, the magic class Boutique is going to release some special jewelry for a podcast next month. So keep an eye out for that as well. To learn more. Go to www.michelintransport.com. Okay, so so wait, yes, do you talk about the Dan Aykroyd situation?

1:16:20 No, I should should look more into that one, but that's a good one too. It was, it was pretty simple. He was doing a TV show for like one of the Network's, you know, one of those real true life you know Supernatural shows right. And he noticed like a car black car with the people in it and then like a day later he got a phone call from the network saying can't show no one's in like no one's going to cover it, and I just such an interesting thought process that like Somebody somewhere made a phone call and went, he's on to us. Well you know, he's a ufologist, right? Yeah, he's really into it. So I assumed that like maybe he was onto something where he was recording or whatever, they were filming at the time and they just told him and they shut it down, it's done. I mean no funding, there's no nothing you're done, which is wild because he's a well-respected well-known actor. So I can't imagine telling him.

1:17:17 No. And that's another facet of that story that I find interesting. You right about that. You're right about that. Okay, so remember the Mothman, you know? Absolutely from last week. Okay? So I told you to MIB is the Men in Black were there to keep things hush-hush as well, right? Well, this is one of my favorite ones that I read from. The book is one of the counters Turn My Page, get to my analog stuff, okay, so it's Jan the January 1967. So this is a few. This is like a year after year before a small family counter their first public Mothman encounter. That went says this before, everything went the, the bridge smushed, no afterward.

1:18:11 I think this is absurd. Actually no because it said the Mothman was there between 1966 and 1967 so I'm not sure, I don't have the date in my God. I have it in my notes but I just don't know where have it. This is still before that before the the big catastrophe happened, just kind of given up trying to get a frame of reference in my head, right? Okay. so, Mary hyre. A journalist in Point, Pleasant gets to have to strange encounters with the Men in Black. Alright.

1:18:52 Alright, the first one is now this one is a rarity among men in black. It's a five foot tall, man has a bowl, cut and hypnotic eyes. And there wasn't much about this encounter with him except for The fact that he was very intrigued by her ballpoint pen and, you know, before their interaction and it she gives she gave her ballpoint pen to him because she saw how interesting he was in it. And once he got it, he gave out his, like, cackle like a laugh and ran out the door. That doesn't sound like she met a man in Black. This is like, she met an alien.

1:19:41 He's some was like a look at this technology fun. It's like, oh, what is this strange object? You have here. What is this? Yeah, yeah, so that's the first encounter. So fun, a little madcap. Yeah, the second encounter. Well, the second weird one because I guess she had multiple encounters. This just is the second weirdest one that she had. Okay, so there are two men in black that looked Asian and they looked like they were twins as well. So they came to the newspaper offices where she worked at. So they started talking about, you know, UFOs and stuff. And one of them was like a lot of saucers things in the sky, huh?

1:20:27 And I was like, yep. And and I imagine a my be going. Haha. Gotcha, we know, you know about the UFOs. So So then they begin to ask her things like, has anyone asked you to not publish the details of of the activity? And she said, no. And then they're like, okay, well, what if you were warned not to publish the details of this activity and she goes and I quote, the straight from her lips straight from the book.

1:21:09 It says, I tell them to go to hell. So is she for a moment? She looks down at her paperwork and and she looks back up to see that they're gone. So I guess they took her seriously and they went to hell. Yeah. Yeah. At least we just more perplexed than anything else. Yeah, it's just like the old always the counters of strange. so, if you think the Men in Black are only men. Well, I had to say that's backwards, thinking. How dare you get the hell out of here?

1:21:50 They're people in Black. Okay, there are indeed women in black suits encounters as well. And I swear, this one is the best one. This is like my the best encounter I've read. Okay, so it's the year 2000 and I did not look this up. I'm Sure. I got their pronunciation. Correct. Anyway. Glastonbury England. A man named Colin Parks is obsessed with finding King Arthur's remains and just I guess it's it's consider our sorcerer Aryan studies. Okay.

1:22:33 He gets a call from a woman who wished to meet and speak with him about his Arthur area studies. He thinks himself. Hmm, that's strange because I haven't told a lot of people about this. Maybe like, yeah, two or three people about my research. So why is why is this random women calling me out of nowhere? So they agree to meet at his place, 7:00 p.m. she arrives with a loud. Knock on a door, he opens the door to see a beautiful 6-foot pill skin, possibly 40 year old woman in a black suit. Okay.

1:23:16 So he was a Shucks. Yeah. Oh He invites on that booty, though. What happened? Sorry. I said, but do she got a booty do? Oh, that's a good question. I'm probably going to say she do she did. No, no, it's okay. Tell major Ally with my debauchery. So he invites her in and it get down to business. She says she and her colleagues have been following in his research for years. Poppycock he says I haven't published anything and no one knows of this.

1:24:00 And with the cruel smile, she says I do know all about you. So he's toad, like, she even, like, goes back and tells him all of his research that she knows about, and this man is Circus. So, See, how is he safe? Is he okay for now, for now, for now? So he's told that he must stop his research, King Arthur's, resting place is also a doorway to a realm with nightmare creatures. So I don't know if you know this, but I'm pretty sure you might.

1:24:42 King Arthur's remains have not been found. I didn't realize that do we think this is like a so he The resting place like the there's like a memorial site doesn't get like, there's a, there's a resting place. It's in. It's in vertical displays Glastonbury. Glastonbury. Yeah. Okay. So it's in England isn't UK and any of our UK listeners can confirm or refute this I'm not sure but I'm pretty sure his remains have not been found. I did read an article that was from April 1st so I'm Is April Fool's joke that his remains were found by a plumber, that that kind of stuff does happen.

1:25:31 You know, when it comes to geological digs and things of that nature? They do. I remember at some point in England, they were taking up a car park and they found a whole host of really important archaeological finds, but I feel like we would have heard if they had actually found King Arthur. Yeah, exactly. Okay. So she says to him, this is. His location is a, I'm sorry, and entry a portal to nightmare laughs. Yeah, basically. It's a. And what does he say when she tells us so? Well she says it can't be open and if he continued to do his research, he'd have another visitor and he definitely did not want to upset this visitor.

1:26:16 So do you think what do you do? You think he stopped his research after she had told him and warranty and gave him this morning. No, but he should have. Yeah, he didn't stop. He's like this is not what he said but this is what I speculate that he was saying I've come too far now to stop. Okay. All right. Okay I'm sorry God. Okay no no I'm just thinking about this. It's 9 p.m. on a Saturday night, he's driving home. There are no cars on the road, which is particularly strange for this area. Because this you, this is the busy busy area, but there is someone in the Roseau or something. It looks like a man from From where he's at. But as he slows down, he's like that ain't no man. It was a tall pale skinny bat-like creature. Oh no.

1:27:22 It's the Mothman not quite. It's like a more like a Batman. But like a new and Batman. So is a is a bat-like creature. So it had wings and everything so it was one of the night. Monsters that they said they didn't want to take out of the board, awesome bleep. So perks saw this thing and he hit the gas. He headed straight towards it and but as soon as he got close enough, it vanished. Mmm. That's good. So it's about it's about a week later. Early early morning, perks is woken up by you guessed it. The monster he saw in the road, it was is in his house in his house. It was standing over him as he was in his bed. So it grabbed his hands grabbed his wrist, it grabbed his wrist and it got real close to his face. And it said in a deep booming voice, you were towed, that I would come the warning.

1:28:29 That is a woman in black gave him if he continued his research, if spoke to him telepathically, so, It didn't he had opened his mouth like this, he gave the same warning to him that the woman in black gave to him. Thanks again. So it looks like any game will warning about, you know what happens next? Once again he gives them a warning or it gives him a warning about King Arthur's resting place and then it's gone. So he stops his research for now. So perks speculated that the woman in black in the creature was the same person claiming that she was a shape-shifter who was upset after perks wasn't heating her warning. So she stooped to drastic measures in shape-shifted into this bat creature.

1:29:33 It's kind of cool actually. Yeah, I know, right? So like I said he stopped looking for, you know, King Arthur's resting place for a while, until he couldn't resist anymore. He was like, I need my drug. I need this, I need to go looking for King, Arthur again, and he was, he was looking until the day, he died. He died of a heart attack. Or so, we think or so, we think so there, there's another story about women in Black by do not write that down. It's the same as almost the same because it's about a woman in black and a fine of flying creature. Mmm.

1:30:16 So if it's the same woman, who knows? I just love the idea of being a shapeshifter. I know, right? It's really cool, not meeting one like her, but it's think about Being one. Right. Right. Okay. Okay, so now those are my stories. Now, is there a theories about what these big Matic people are? They could be G-Men, you know, guys working with the government to keep things underground, which is what they've always kind of played it off as just some hired goons, right? But we're the weird paranormal connection, though, or they could be demons.

1:31:03 Oh no. Right right. Right. Okay. So I only wrote down one of the series but okay, so some of the theories are G-Men demons they could be hallucinations They could be like, just civilian people dressed up like this. Or they could be hoaxes. Now, okay, see no one thinks they could be aliens, none of these theories ended up as aliens. I don't know why. I think that like, they are also, like, some of them might be aliens. You would think so, right working for us, just to keep things quiet, right?

1:31:48 Okay, so what do you think there's one theory that? Well, I'll get to what I think later. Oh, there is one. In theory is that I absolutely love and this is actually a topic I was going to cover eventually some time this theory is that they're topas. Continue. Okay. So you ever wonder why the Men in Black are so I don't know like weird like they have like they were manifested for just a single purpose and that's to stop people.

1:32:29 From worrying about UFOs. Okay. And that like they don't have common sense like that. Like the story I said about the one who was interested in a pen like you didn't know what the heck of pain was like act. Like you didn't know what a pain was, right? Like they don't have basic knowledge like Common Sense knowledge. They just have the knowledge of what they should be. Okay. Okay. So So they're called Tapas. So what the heck or topas right? So originating in Tibet the language is so I guess it's a bit in.

1:33:13 I don't know what you would call them. I guess I'm Munch Munch. See ya. Okay so Tapas are an entity or being that attained some form of meaningful reality after being conjured up. Up solely from the imagination of The Conjurer. So basically, if you have enough mental power, you can create something from your thoughts. Two into reality, hmm. So imagine a my the Men in Black or taupe us.

1:33:55 Now there's a case I read in a book, it's about I don't know the woman's name but she created at OPA. It was of a monk, it was a fat monkey think of Friar Tuck from Robin Hood. Okay. So she this this is how it was described in the book as well. So she creates this Monk topa. And he can he's basically like, I want to say, He's something that she can see. And he can I guess interact with the world around him as well because there, I guess she reported that, you know, he she could feel that he touched her shoulder at one point and stuff like that and horses would recognize him as well.

1:34:50 And later on, she notices that he's Changing an appearance. He's getting a little skinnier. His attitude is changing from that of like, you know, quiet, monk to someone, who's sassy stuff like that. So she tries to get rid of him. Because she knows that, you know, he's changing and it's and he's like trying to break. So basically he's trying to break free from the hold. She has on him. Yes. Oh, he's trying to break free from her like, her mental space and He like he tries, he tries but like because he knows that she's trying to get rid of him now. So she eventually does this and she can conjure him away back into her mind and that's the end of that. And you know I've actually read like a creepypasta about something like this topaz do and the ending did not end well for the other person.

1:36:03 So imagine that the Men in Black were topas that broke free from the conjurer's grip and he took on a life of their own, but why would they work for the government? So who says are working for the government who says they can't just be regular, like just topas out with a mission. To stop people from learning about UFOs. They're just, they're just their own, their own Society. I guess of tulpas. And like, Albert Bender. The first guy from the story. He could have planted the thought. And in people's heads, that there are men in black suits out there, who will stop you or try to stop you from learning about UFOs, and flying saucers and Paranormal Activity and stuff like that.

1:36:59 And just, yeah. So just thinking about like all those minds thinking about this single thing, all that mental power that could create the Men in Black tulpa. I see what you're saying. Yeah. All right, so that's why this one is like, very interesting. There's also, another is also another theory that they are being Partners as well. Oh gosh. But they've been seen during the day, so I'm not sure. Every video I seen, they walked into a building or the daytime.

1:37:40 Yeah, but yeah, then being told was is just like, it's just the best because Tapas are just, you know, they're fascinating to me and be interesting to look into more in-depth, right? Right. And that's all I have for the Men in Black this week. We'll definitely really interesting. Right? Are you kind of got really, really into it as he in there. Yeah, that's awesome. So, because we're talking about tulpas and, like, hmmm something I can create from my mind that could manifest if I like focus enough. But yeah, those I I don't think that's something people should be trying to do. I mean, sounds like a bad idea at one point. I think it was it was brought up that maybe I'm not going to a certain tall.

1:38:38 Skinny baseless man in his suit was at OPA as well. Oh gosh. That's the connection. You were making Slender Man. Oh hey you never know. Hey I mean the Men in Black have been known to kidnap children in the forest but hey, you never know. Oh, dear. Well, we had a long journey tonight, didn't we everyone? Yeah, we had a through the awful mind of the Ken and Barbie killers and their reality into the, I don't know if it's reality or not of the Men in Black situation. Well, in reality are considered a computer, a conspiracy theory as well.

1:39:30 So who knows, it's just so many unanswered questions when it comes to that sort of thing. NG right. Exactly. As for us hopefully next week we will not be snowed in so we'll be back together to record our second our Valentine's Day podcast. Yes, I have a good one ready for you all next week. I don't get I will have it. Ready once I think that's a little bit more on the funny side than the devastatingly. Sad side like this week. Yay. Absolutely. But on our way out I would love to say thank you to our sponsors. Which are the magic clasp who are making our serial killer earrings. That will be coming out soon.

1:40:17 This February. And also, to Anchor dot f, m, for hosting this podcast, and getting us up and running with ease. And we also want to say, if you would love to send a message to us, you can just go to Anchor. Dot f, m / when Killers, get caught and you can leave a voicemail. And if we get one that we like and it's interesting, we will play it during We are podcast for you. And you can't wait like every week if you would like some extra content about some kind of killers, I have committed to discussing a serial killer from every state in the United States. So, that's another 50 videos on Tick-Tock.

1:40:58 Oh my goodness. Which is called caught podcast. I've only posted to so far. Probably by the time this comes up. They'll be at least 10 to 12 of them. So that's something you can look into Nice nice. But just as signing off to everybody and serial killer country we hope you have a great week coming up and we can't wait to tell you more about where I can with tell you more about some of our killer couples and I can't wait to tell you but more creepy things. Good night. Good night.