The Bodies In the Barrels & spooky video games

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Everybody in serial killer
country.

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My name is Brittany.
Ransom, my name is Brian jr.

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And this is when Killers get
caught a podcast devoted to deep

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dives, into the lives of
killers.

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We love to learn about every
week.

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Brian and I will discuss two
true crime stories that

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resonated with us and then I
will lead you down the darker

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path of learning about who
killer was how they grew up,

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have a killed and most
importantly how they got caught.

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Then we have Brian to slow
things down and give us a little

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bit of a paranormal palate
cleanser as we talk about creepy

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things in life.
Maybe the Paranormal, maybe a

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Cryptid, maybe just something
weird.

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He found on Reddit, who knows,
but this week on True Crime, I

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want to talk.
Well, actually before we talk

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about your crime, just a
reminder, you have only 10 days

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left to get anything from the
mood new merch launch.

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The a Squatch disappears.
April 30th.

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That's all I'm going to say on
that.

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Oh God.
You got guys got like a, was it

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two weeks now?
Yeah, less than two weeks now.

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Yeah, it's gonna be gone.
I got to order another shirt

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then yeah.
I was thinking about it, myself

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actually.
Yeah, because the heavy tease,

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they they feel great.
Colors are good to.

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That's what I really liked about
this one.

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It really bright and vibrant?
Yes, absolutely.

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But let's start with this week,
in True Crime and I'm going to

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start with something that's
actually really awful, but it

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was super intriguing to me.
So, this happened only a couple

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of days ago.
This woman was found in a hockey

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bag seeing her own basement.
Is that your story too?

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No, no, I read that one.
I was like, this is a good one.

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It's weird.
Right?

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So she's fighting a hockey bag
in her own basement.

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Stabbed almost 60 times.
This is in a suburb of New York

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City.
The woman's name is orsolya

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Gaul.
And she's a married Mama to her

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13 year.
Old son was upstairs in the

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house when this happened,
particularly all the news

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articles were very like, I can't
believe this happened in this 2

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million dollar house.
I thought that was kind of a

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weird thing to lead with, right?
They performed a preliminary

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autopsy on orsolya.
She's 51 years old, or was 51

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years old.
And there were 60.

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Sharp blunt force injuries to
her neck torso, and her left,

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arm her card or card, artery
carotid, artery and trachea.

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Have been sliced.
She wounds to her fingers in the

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palms of her hands defensive
wounds.

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The interesting thing about this
is that the day that this

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happened so it would have been
two Fridays ago.

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She told her 13 year old son who
was upstairs.

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He's in his room, I'm going to
go see like a movie or show.

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Now the police have said that
based on looking at like her

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cell phone.
She went to meet up with another

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man, but they have no idea why?
No one's saying that.

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This was like a fair type thing
but they're not actually saying

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what it was.
Either she met somebody else

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line.
They were doing like a bumblebee

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FF thing so that you can make a
new friend or something like

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that.
Yeah.

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Who knows but her husband and
the older son who 17 were out of

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town because they were looking
at colleges.

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Hmm, they don't know who this
man is.

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Just that somehow he convinced
her to let him into the house.

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Went down into the basement,
stabbed her to death, shoved her

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into a hockey bag and then
texted her husband, your whole

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family is next They didn't find
her until the following day.

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At about 8 a.m. the bag itself,
was not in the house, but they

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know that she was killed in the
house.

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The suburb is Forest Hills.
For anyone who wants to know,

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just the the duffel bag was
found about a half a mile away

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from the home.
So he killed her, put her in a

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duffel bag and then just walked
through the house.

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Like this.
It might had this has got to be

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somebody this family new that's
so bold, right?

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Yeah.
So I'm reading this and it said

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that she disappeared some other
times.

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Like she ran away or something.
She was missing and she doesn't

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a 20.
They just as report overeating

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that way.
Okay, so there was also a

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surveillance will actually
nothing else.

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Oh no this is even worse.
I missed this detail the first

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time I read this article, it's
just one sentence, which is that

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surveillance videos in the
neighborhood.

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Captured unidentified person,
Wheeling a duffel bag down a

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sidewalk in about 438 about.
So that means he stayed in the

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house with the child all day
long.

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Oh, my God.
Was this all for like 12 hours?

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He was just there, was he in the
basement then?

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And the kid who probably was.
Yeah.

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My God.
Oh my God.

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That is ultra scary but then
they said the thing that let

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them know that there was a trail
of blood.

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Yeah.
From the house to the dump site.

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Which means there was probably
blood in the house to like just

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leading from the basement out
through the house.

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Oh, yeah, absolutely God.
That's crazy.

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Obviously, the dad came back and
he's just like worried because

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he's just like, was this an
attack on our family?

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You know, and the police have
absolutely no idea.

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What's happened is crazy.
Hopefully we get some more

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information.
That's death.

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I will keep an eye on.
Yeah, absolutely.

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Goodness gracious.
Brittany, no it's eat.

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Look.
Okay.

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See I this is like the second
stuffing story.

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I saw this week because he
doesn't want some guys from his

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grandma into a freezer, a chest
freezer.

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Freezers are so popular.
Those like square ones look but

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in your basement.
Yeah, I have one already Easter

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so much extra food.
Yes, we have one as well in the

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laundry room but it's just just,
Why do people always put bodies

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in there?
Why are the perfect size for a

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body?
Remember that lady.

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I talked about on Tick-Tock last
year.

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Who killed her husband in
California?

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Drove across the country with
him because her family needed

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her stored.
The body.

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This happened in New England,
stored the body in a Storage

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unit and paid for it and kept it
plugged in for years.

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It wasn't until he was about to
die, but she told her kids.

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Oh yeah, I killed her dad, and
he's in a storage unit.

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Oh my God, this is ridiculous.
Oh, but this one's weird because

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the old, the grandma.
She wasn't Dead when he put her

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in the freezer.
She was, oh no, I died in the

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freezer.
So, yeah.

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That's horrible.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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But that's not my story this
week.

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Okay.
Then I have a lighter story this

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week, so a fourteen-year-old,
Massachusetts girl is at home

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alone.
Well, before she gets ready for

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school, I guess and she hears
some commotion going on.

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Someone has broken into her
house.

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Okay, the garage And this Brave
little girl, she grabs two

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kitchen knives.
And scares off the Intruder.

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Oh hell yeah.
We love to hear?

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Yes.
She's apparently.

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This happened like 720.
She woke up, she heard a sound

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and she's like she gets the
knives and she just screamed at

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him.
She's like I like get out of my

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house.
You don't belong here and then

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the guy just Jets, he's 50
years. 88 years old his name was

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Joseph Ridge.
In the girl's name.

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Goodness gracious, where's he's
too damn old.

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Heard a to be commit tax fraud
or something.

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Right.
Her name is Avery chrome mirror

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what happened core job for
Mirror?

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Whatever.
That's a good job Avery.

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Yeah, yeah and not only this,
you scare him off, she got her

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phone out and she recorded him
leaving in his car.

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So she got his license plate
number and she called Maya.

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One.
She was like, I got him out of

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the house.
I scared him.

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Yeah.
It was like, this is great.

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This is all.
Yeah.

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And apparently, this guy is
Rich, he's been, he has a

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history of crime.
I'm sure breaking.

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You don't just start robbing
houses at 58 years old, you're

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not, you know what, I've had a
long life as a janitor and now

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that I've retired, I'd To start
breaking into people's houses at

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7 a.m. yes.
I just don't see it.

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No, no, no, no.
He has a history of crime in and

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yeah, he has no connection to
the family, which is weird.

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So it's just a random house and
he was like, hmm.

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I know they're not going to be
home.

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So I'm just breaking their.
Wait, why would you assume that

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people aren't home at 7:00 in
the morning?

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People are generally getting
ready for work.

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This is the worst side is the
worst time.

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I would assume that nobody's in
the house at 1 p.m.

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Don't assume that about my house
though.

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Y'all we all work from home.
We here and there are guns.

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Ends.
I was just thinking I was like

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well if somebody broke into my
house, my kids over my weapons

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are so they can easily imagine
your two small children running.

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After a man with sword look
here.

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They they they would they were
listen they were wreck that

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man's ankles and me.
Yes, he'd be scared as fuck and

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knee replacement.
It's like it's like now you see

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running with swords.
From eyes.

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Real ring with the freaking
Eagles.

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With the sword side, your legs
and just flying at somebody.

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That's what my kids would be
like I know you don't know.

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I'm talking about.
That's okay.

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But those are good stories
today.

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Yeah,
well, we haven't.

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Talked about Australia and a
while Brian.

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This is true.
And so I thought I would bring

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us back to the land down under
for a pretty cry.

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It's Christ is described as the
crime That Shook Australian and

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I'm referring to a case known as
the bodies in the barrels

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murders.
Do you know anything about that?

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No, that is a very long name.
Well, they also sometimes refer

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to them as the snow Town
murders, but it's particularly a

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Name because the remains were
found in snow town but for the

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most part, the people were not
killed there.

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Also, the people of snow town,
do not enjoy the fact that their

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town is connected to this
atrocity.

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It was one of the most reported
murder trials.

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And one of the longest trials in
American history, took about six

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years to handle all of the
cases, against the four people

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involved.
Today we're going to be talking

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about John, Justin bunting,
Robert, Jill Wagner, James

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spiridonov last last kiss and
Mark Hayden along with the 10

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victims who were discovered in
abandoned Bank fault in the city

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of snow town.
And two, other victims, who were

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buried other locations.
This was an exceptionally

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intense case because the
ringleader of the group John,

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manipulated these much younger
men into believing that the

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majority of the victims were
homosexual.

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Will pedophiles.
And that it was a valid reason

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to torture and kill them.
It's a particularly wild story

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and almost all of our Killers
have connections to child abuse.

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So, I am giving you your trigger
warning for that today.

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This story mainly revolves
around John, Justin bunting, so

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we're definitely going to start
with him.

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And then I'll add in the other
players.

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So before John Justin bunting
was the ringleader of a group of

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killers, he was just a little
boy born in and Nala,

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Queensland.
On September. 4th 1966.

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He was an only child.
And from the beginning, they

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were actually serious issues
with his health.

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He wouldn't breastfeed and he
wouldn't eat his parents.

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His mom had to almost hand feed
him to make sure that he was

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like alive.
And he was always very, very

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underweight.
His father was just like this

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little eventually passed.
I The kids got to eat eventually

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but finally Mom decide to take
him to a doctor where he was put

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00:14:41,800 --> 00:14:45,200
through all these tests and they
sent him to a specialist who did

231
00:14:45,200 --> 00:14:48,600
a bunch more tests.
And finally, when those results

232
00:14:48,600 --> 00:14:51,200
came back negative, the doctor
actually just decided to do

233
00:14:51,200 --> 00:14:53,200
something.
That was a little bit off the

234
00:14:53,200 --> 00:14:56,300
cuff.
He had the nurse pull of

235
00:14:56,300 --> 00:15:00,000
smelling salts and for no one
who's actually smelled.

236
00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:05,000
Smelling salts, it clears.
The room, it's really strong.

237
00:15:05,500 --> 00:15:09,600
And everyone in that room,
parents nurses doctor reacted

238
00:15:09,600 --> 00:15:13,800
except for John.
That was the problem he couldn't

239
00:15:13,800 --> 00:15:15,900
smell and he had never been able
to.

240
00:15:16,800 --> 00:15:21,500
The diagnosis is anosmia AKA
smell blindness, and if people

241
00:15:21,500 --> 00:15:24,200
don't know, having a lack of
sense of smell, also impacts

242
00:15:24,200 --> 00:15:25,900
your ability to taste things as
well.

243
00:15:26,300 --> 00:15:32,900
It changes how your experience
with food is and Pretty much.

244
00:15:32,900 --> 00:15:37,000
What John's mom had to do, was
figure out what foods he could

245
00:15:37,000 --> 00:15:42,900
taste and kind of get him some
desire to eat.

246
00:15:43,100 --> 00:15:46,200
But after that, did it did work
out and he became, or at least

247
00:15:46,200 --> 00:15:47,900
he started to look like a normal
little boy.

248
00:15:48,300 --> 00:15:51,000
He was raised in a really strict
household where almost every

249
00:15:51,000 --> 00:15:54,000
moment of his day was
pre-planned, but unlike most

250
00:15:54,000 --> 00:15:56,400
kids, he didn't really Ruble at
that.

251
00:15:56,400 --> 00:16:01,300
He, he found comfort in the
consistency as he Got older

252
00:16:01,300 --> 00:16:02,900
though.
His parents did loosen his grip

253
00:16:02,900 --> 00:16:06,500
and when I say he got older, I
mean like six or seven years

254
00:16:06,500 --> 00:16:10,500
old, they were like, you can go
outside by yourself and the new

255
00:16:10,500 --> 00:16:12,300
rule was just be home for
dinner.

256
00:16:13,900 --> 00:16:18,700
He was never late.
And sometimes he would show up

257
00:16:18,700 --> 00:16:21,200
like a minute before the
deadline just to make sure he

258
00:16:21,200 --> 00:16:25,200
was, always always following the
rules, still comforted by

259
00:16:25,200 --> 00:16:29,600
routine, like when he was little
Heading into elementary school,

260
00:16:29,600 --> 00:16:32,900
he was quiet, but friendly a
pretty low Frills friend, which

261
00:16:32,900 --> 00:16:36,700
a lot of people prefer like this
was not a kid who was clingy.

262
00:16:37,800 --> 00:16:40,400
He was virtually friends with
everyone and Elementary School

263
00:16:40,700 --> 00:16:43,400
and so he was always invited to
everybody's birthday parties and

264
00:16:43,400 --> 00:16:46,300
even to go on holiday with other
students families.

265
00:16:47,000 --> 00:16:49,000
That is not thing that we do in
America.

266
00:16:51,500 --> 00:16:55,000
However, probably the single
most dramatic moment in John's

267
00:16:55,000 --> 00:16:57,600
life happened in the summer of
1974 when he was eight.

268
00:16:57,800 --> 00:17:00,100
Years old.
He and his friends were playing

269
00:17:00,100 --> 00:17:02,600
in the streets of Anala like
little boys do, but it was

270
00:17:02,600 --> 00:17:05,300
really hot and so they ended up
going into one of the boys homes

271
00:17:05,300 --> 00:17:08,500
to play in the basement around
noon.

272
00:17:08,800 --> 00:17:11,800
His friends older brother kind
of stuck his head in to check on

273
00:17:11,800 --> 00:17:19,200
them and John, didn't notice how
his classmate behaved whenever

274
00:17:19,200 --> 00:17:22,000
the brother kept coming to the
door, but the little boy was

275
00:17:22,000 --> 00:17:25,500
definitely scared.
Eventually, the older boy came

276
00:17:25,500 --> 00:17:27,900
back.
He had a rope in his Hands.

277
00:17:27,900 --> 00:17:31,700
And was just like, do you babies
want to play a big boy game?

278
00:17:34,600 --> 00:17:38,300
The brother, the younger brother
said nothing and just looked at

279
00:17:38,300 --> 00:17:41,000
the floor, but John was just
like I don't understand what's

280
00:17:41,000 --> 00:17:43,000
going on here.
No, thank you.

281
00:17:43,600 --> 00:17:47,200
And the older boy, immediately,
just like punched him and

282
00:17:47,200 --> 00:17:49,700
knocked him down.
And while John had been in like

283
00:17:49,700 --> 00:17:52,400
little kid fights, this was
different.

284
00:17:52,500 --> 00:17:57,300
This was like a real hit so he
was not prepared for that.

285
00:17:57,600 --> 00:18:00,900
And then the older board
actually went to stomp on his

286
00:18:00,900 --> 00:18:03,200
privates but John moved and
ended up.

287
00:18:03,400 --> 00:18:09,100
Like like violent like leaving a
major bruise on his thigh like

288
00:18:09,100 --> 00:18:11,100
his pants.
Ripped, the boys pants.

289
00:18:12,900 --> 00:18:16,400
John's friend and the younger
brother to this awful, older

290
00:18:16,400 --> 00:18:22,500
kid, tried to run and up the
steps back into the house and

291
00:18:24,100 --> 00:18:26,500
the teenager grabbed him by his
legs.

292
00:18:26,500 --> 00:18:29,400
And that little boy, hit his
face on the concrete steps.

293
00:18:29,800 --> 00:18:34,000
So he is completely knocked out
that teenager tossed.

294
00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:37,100
His younger brother in the
corner and stunned.

295
00:18:37,100 --> 00:18:39,700
John absolutely tries to escape
the way they came into the

296
00:18:39,700 --> 00:18:43,600
basement through like the ground
floor door. or the older

297
00:18:43,600 --> 00:18:46,100
teenager just kind of picked him
up even though he was like

298
00:18:46,100 --> 00:18:52,000
yelling and screaming and walked
him back inside, He proceeded to

299
00:18:52,000 --> 00:18:56,500
hit John again, and when John
woke up, he was naked and tied

300
00:18:56,500 --> 00:19:01,000
onto a fold-out couch.
It was pretty terrible assault.

301
00:19:04,300 --> 00:19:09,200
Definitely, John said that he
kind of disassociated during the

302
00:19:09,200 --> 00:19:12,000
first part of the attack just
was being beat and called names

303
00:19:12,000 --> 00:19:16,400
and stuff.
But he was well aware when the

304
00:19:16,400 --> 00:19:21,900
sexual assault happened and then
the worst part about it was that

305
00:19:22,000 --> 00:19:26,000
he left and got some of his
friends and came back with three

306
00:19:26,000 --> 00:19:30,300
more other teenagers who also
sexually assaulted my God.

307
00:19:32,300 --> 00:19:36,300
Then they kind of untied.
Em and let him redress himself,

308
00:19:36,300 --> 00:19:39,600
covered in blood and other gross
things.

309
00:19:40,000 --> 00:19:43,100
He's an hour late getting home
and his mother was like super

310
00:19:43,100 --> 00:19:46,100
upset.
She said the dinner had spoiled.

311
00:19:46,200 --> 00:19:48,600
And so she said I'm the bed
without food and John went

312
00:19:48,600 --> 00:19:50,600
upstairs, kind of feeling
nothing.

313
00:19:51,200 --> 00:19:53,500
The thing that made his mom.
The most mad though, wasn't that

314
00:19:53,500 --> 00:19:56,000
he missed dinner, was that?
He didn't tell her where he'd

315
00:19:56,000 --> 00:20:01,300
been and she was just like,
where were you, what happened?

316
00:20:01,300 --> 00:20:05,600
And he was just silent.
Upstairs in his room though.

317
00:20:05,600 --> 00:20:07,700
He didn't know how to tell his
mom where he'd been or what

318
00:20:07,700 --> 00:20:09,500
happened who was going to
believe?

319
00:20:09,500 --> 00:20:12,500
This one little eight-year-old
boy versus for older teenagers

320
00:20:13,500 --> 00:20:16,800
from from that point forward,
John change at first.

321
00:20:16,800 --> 00:20:19,600
His mom thought that he was
upset because he was grounded

322
00:20:19,600 --> 00:20:23,500
but when his punishment was over
he didn't go back outside

323
00:20:23,500 --> 00:20:28,600
anymore.
That was because even though the

324
00:20:28,600 --> 00:20:32,200
town wasn't that small, it
seemed like John couldn't get

325
00:20:32,200 --> 00:20:38,500
away from His rapists.
So he just stayed inside the

326
00:20:38,500 --> 00:20:41,700
spark of fun and popularity,
really disappeared.

327
00:20:42,400 --> 00:20:45,500
If you talk to him, he responded
but it was a little Halo.

328
00:20:46,100 --> 00:20:48,800
When he went back to school, the
older boys had kind of poisoned

329
00:20:48,800 --> 00:20:52,900
a lot of the younger kids in all
of a sudden, people were

330
00:20:52,900 --> 00:20:55,100
bullying him.
The younger kids didn't know

331
00:20:55,100 --> 00:20:57,300
what happened, but they had seen
the older boys.

332
00:20:57,300 --> 00:20:58,800
Pulling John.
So, they were just kind of

333
00:20:58,800 --> 00:21:04,900
following suit.
This one on for about a year and

334
00:21:05,300 --> 00:21:08,500
one of the older teen boys,
stopped him one day outside of

335
00:21:08,500 --> 00:21:10,300
school and threatened to rape
him.

336
00:21:10,300 --> 00:21:15,200
Again, if he told anyone like he
said to John, I'll come to your

337
00:21:15,200 --> 00:21:19,200
house and I'll do it every week.
If you tell anybody, boy hit him

338
00:21:19,200 --> 00:21:22,800
in the face and just like kind
of demanded a response and nine

339
00:21:22,800 --> 00:21:25,900
year old John just kind of
stared as rapists and and

340
00:21:25,900 --> 00:21:30,000
growled I hear you and it
surprised both of them.

341
00:21:31,100 --> 00:21:36,000
There was no fear in this little
kids face, just loathing and

342
00:21:36,000 --> 00:21:42,600
hate one by one.
All four of the rapist did stop

343
00:21:42,600 --> 00:21:44,900
and threaten him.
But as far as John was

344
00:21:44,900 --> 00:21:47,300
concerned, he said that the
worst thing in the world had

345
00:21:47,300 --> 00:21:50,000
been already been done to him so
he wasn't scared of them.

346
00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:55,300
He just wanted to hurt them
right started with however,

347
00:21:55,300 --> 00:22:00,300
burning ants nests and throwing
rocks at neighbors cats and then

348
00:22:00,300 --> 00:22:03,300
finding animals, Is that weren't
smart enough to be scared of him

349
00:22:03,500 --> 00:22:07,100
and he would capture them and
break their necks imagining that

350
00:22:07,100 --> 00:22:09,700
he was breaking the bones of the
teenagers who hurt him.

351
00:22:11,200 --> 00:22:14,900
His grades tanked within three
years, he was feeling every

352
00:22:14,900 --> 00:22:18,800
class except for chemistry.
He really liked chemistry and he

353
00:22:18,800 --> 00:22:21,200
wanted to learn how to mix
things to make late, lethal

354
00:22:21,200 --> 00:22:23,500
combinations.
He started getting into fights

355
00:22:23,500 --> 00:22:25,700
with literally everyone even his
teachers.

356
00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:28,900
When people tried to push him to
do anything, he responded with

357
00:22:28,900 --> 00:22:33,800
an intense aggression.
In John's head, he felt like he

358
00:22:33,800 --> 00:22:37,800
had done everything that he was
supposed to do, all the stuff

359
00:22:37,800 --> 00:22:39,500
that is mom and dad wanted him
to be.

360
00:22:40,000 --> 00:22:42,600
And that had made him weak and
vulnerable, and he was never

361
00:22:42,600 --> 00:22:46,400
going to let that happen again.
Now that of course build into

362
00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:48,600
his home life and his parents
couldn't control him.

363
00:22:48,900 --> 00:22:50,600
He was only going to follow
whatever he wanted.

364
00:22:50,600 --> 00:22:53,700
And he started skipping school
staying out at night, he missed

365
00:22:53,700 --> 00:22:55,100
dinner.
Sometimes he didn't come home at

366
00:22:55,100 --> 00:22:56,900
all.
His parents were like, are you

367
00:22:56,900 --> 00:22:58,900
drinking?
Are you doing drugs?

368
00:22:58,900 --> 00:23:02,600
And he wasn't because he would
never risk being under the

369
00:23:02,600 --> 00:23:08,200
influence and being vulnerable.
It's really interesting that the

370
00:23:08,200 --> 00:23:10,600
John thought that isolated
himself will protect him.

371
00:23:10,800 --> 00:23:13,300
But in fact, it did make him
very vulnerable to being

372
00:23:13,300 --> 00:23:17,800
manipulated as John had created
this little bubble.

373
00:23:17,800 --> 00:23:21,500
He lived in and he was really
kind of desperate for someone

374
00:23:22,700 --> 00:23:30,200
older to be, kind to him, which
is when he met Betty man in his

375
00:23:30,200 --> 00:23:33,500
30s they met just after John
turned 13.

376
00:23:33,500 --> 00:23:36,800
Oh, it's dark one night.
Yeah, that's a good job was.

377
00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:42,900
Yeah, it's mighty is this will
not be a positive relationship.

378
00:23:42,900 --> 00:23:47,200
Hello.
So one night it's like the

379
00:23:47,200 --> 00:23:50,600
middle of night and John's
walking around a park not far

380
00:23:50,600 --> 00:23:54,100
from his home and Benny sees him
and it's just like hey you want

381
00:23:54,100 --> 00:23:57,300
to avoid the parking lot.
There's a lot of gay guys around

382
00:23:57,300 --> 00:24:00,400
this area.
You know looking for people and

383
00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:04,300
Betty was like listen they'll
try and rape a cute little thing

384
00:24:04,300 --> 00:24:07,300
like you and Benny was
definitely trying to steer him,

385
00:24:07,500 --> 00:24:11,100
but John just responded.
Let them try, I'll fucking kill

386
00:24:11,100 --> 00:24:15,700
them.
Which Benny was like, oh wait,

387
00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:17,100
this kids.
Cool.

388
00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:22,700
Betty was a white supremacist
and he was covered in Neo Nazi

389
00:24:22,700 --> 00:24:25,500
tattoos and he believed gay.
People were the worst people of

390
00:24:25,500 --> 00:24:29,700
all people.
So that became the Friendship

391
00:24:29,700 --> 00:24:32,500
bond between the two of them
because as far as John was

392
00:24:32,500 --> 00:24:39,300
concerned, his rapists Were Gay
and pedophiles so Benny and John

393
00:24:39,300 --> 00:24:41,900
want me to be around town smoke.
Some cigarettes Trash, Talk gay

394
00:24:41,900 --> 00:24:44,800
people, like I said, he didn't
see the difference between the

395
00:24:44,800 --> 00:24:47,500
random gay guys in the park and
those teens who assaulted him

396
00:24:47,500 --> 00:24:51,400
five years before and then it
made it even worse some of the

397
00:24:51,400 --> 00:24:53,000
men in the park would hit on
him.

398
00:24:53,200 --> 00:24:57,800
Knowing he was a team and that
just further solidify The

399
00:24:57,800 --> 00:25:00,700
ideology that these men were
just like his rapist.

400
00:25:02,300 --> 00:25:07,600
So they kind of created a sort
of lure, they use John as bait.

401
00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:10,900
They would lure a gay man to a
remote alley, and then beat the

402
00:25:10,900 --> 00:25:16,900
absolute crap out of him.
From 13 to 15 years old.

403
00:25:17,100 --> 00:25:19,400
John started focusing on gaining
muscles.

404
00:25:19,700 --> 00:25:21,700
Pretty much his best.
You classes were Jim and

405
00:25:21,700 --> 00:25:23,900
chemistry.
He agreed to play sports, so he

406
00:25:23,900 --> 00:25:26,400
could use the gym.
And his teachers were like, is

407
00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:28,600
he, is he making a turn for the
better?

408
00:25:28,600 --> 00:25:30,600
Is he trying to be a better
student?

409
00:25:30,900 --> 00:25:34,000
They didn't realize that what he
was actually doing was trying to

410
00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:36,700
make himself stronger so he
could beat him or gay people.

411
00:25:38,900 --> 00:25:43,000
In a weird sort of awful way.
As he got taller and more

412
00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:47,600
muscular, the men in the park
were less interested in him.

413
00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:55,500
Hmm, and so, because he looks
more of a listen, I it's weird

414
00:25:55,500 --> 00:25:57,300
that we've had two cases
back-to-back.

415
00:25:57,600 --> 00:26:02,300
I did not know, I knew about
this case, and I knew that I

416
00:26:02,300 --> 00:26:05,800
didn't know that John had this
history until I dug into it,

417
00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:08,300
right?
So inadvertently, we came I came

418
00:26:08,300 --> 00:26:12,200
across two killers who have
skewed perceptions of

419
00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:15,300
homosexuality and it affected
their life.

420
00:26:17,100 --> 00:26:18,200
Goodness.
Okay.

421
00:26:19,100 --> 00:26:23,500
Well John begins.
Developing his interpersonal

422
00:26:23,500 --> 00:26:27,300
skills.
He becomes downright charming

423
00:26:27,300 --> 00:26:31,100
and charismatic.
See, Benny could never pretend

424
00:26:31,100 --> 00:26:34,800
long enough to rope in one of
the poufs, as he called the game

425
00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:38,900
and in town John however, became
a very talented liar.

426
00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:42,800
It was almost like he could turn
his feelings off or on and an

427
00:26:42,800 --> 00:26:48,900
instant, ABS one for a while
Benny and John Rabe the gay men

428
00:26:48,900 --> 00:26:51,600
they'd be tan and it was a good
con they made lots of money.

429
00:26:52,700 --> 00:26:55,800
John was actually kind of
bothered by the fact that men

430
00:26:55,800 --> 00:26:59,100
were so attracted to him and he
found the idea of a man.

431
00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:02,100
An to touch him to be revolting,
which is not surprising from

432
00:27:02,100 --> 00:27:04,500
someone experiencing an assault
at a young age.

433
00:27:04,500 --> 00:27:10,200
I mean, I'd be bothered if, if I
was at that age and then we're

434
00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:12,600
hitting on me as well.
Not gonna lie.

435
00:27:12,600 --> 00:27:16,600
Oh, yeah.
But what he decided to look into

436
00:27:16,600 --> 00:27:21,200
was, he was just, like, do girls
like me, too.

437
00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:27,500
And so at about 15, he kind of
reached out to his friends from

438
00:27:27,500 --> 00:27:30,000
school.
And the thing was, he had

439
00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:33,800
isolated himself.
They were like totally open to

440
00:27:33,800 --> 00:27:36,600
being friends with him.
And so he started hanging out

441
00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:39,500
with his friends, going to
parties, the girls at school

442
00:27:39,500 --> 00:27:44,600
were, like, he's fit.
And we're very interested.

443
00:27:45,700 --> 00:27:49,100
He did do some normal teen
stuff, you know, have some beer,

444
00:27:49,100 --> 00:27:52,600
smoke a little bit, hang out
with in a month.

445
00:27:53,700 --> 00:27:56,600
John had a girl who was willing
to sleep with him.

446
00:27:58,500 --> 00:28:02,800
He enjoyed the moment, but like
it was really him trying to see

447
00:28:02,800 --> 00:28:06,600
if he could do it, because he
was afraid that he was gay.

448
00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:09,100
Because of what happened to
Henry.

449
00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:14,200
He really didn't care about the
girl at all and virtually

450
00:28:14,300 --> 00:28:17,200
ignored her afterward.
Oh no.

451
00:28:17,900 --> 00:28:21,500
She thought she saw him out
after his 16th birthday and I

452
00:28:21,508 --> 00:28:24,200
was about 4 months later and she
was very pregnant.

453
00:28:24,500 --> 00:28:28,600
Oh yep.
John had already quit school and

454
00:28:28,600 --> 00:28:32,400
he was looking for a job and he
was just like, I mean, if you

455
00:28:32,400 --> 00:28:35,300
want me to, I'll marry you and
she was like, oh no.

456
00:28:38,200 --> 00:28:40,900
She was fine being a single mom
but she wanted money for the

457
00:28:40,900 --> 00:28:44,000
baby.
So because John had all this

458
00:28:46,200 --> 00:28:50,800
beat up, gay people money.
She assumed that his family was

459
00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:53,700
wealthy because he always had
this money to spend.

460
00:28:54,200 --> 00:28:56,800
She was very surprised to learn
that his family were just like

461
00:28:56,800 --> 00:29:02,500
basic working people.
He told her that she and the

462
00:29:02,500 --> 00:29:05,200
baby would never suffer.
He took the first job he could

463
00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:07,900
to get so you could pay child
support and that was at the

464
00:29:07,900 --> 00:29:10,300
local crematorium.
It was virtually a job that

465
00:29:10,300 --> 00:29:14,500
nobody in town wanted John was
pretty fine with the day-to-day

466
00:29:14,500 --> 00:29:17,400
operations of preparing remains
for cremation and he was really

467
00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:20,200
strong, big strong enough that
he could pick up a Coffin by

468
00:29:20,200 --> 00:29:28,100
himself and his Bosses were like
he seems like a trustworthy man

469
00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:30,000
young man.
So they would let him prepare

470
00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:32,900
the bodies by himself and that's
when he started stealing the

471
00:29:32,900 --> 00:29:35,500
gold fillings in people's mouths
when nobody was looking for.

472
00:29:36,900 --> 00:29:41,100
So he could sell the gold.
His boss is definitely thought

473
00:29:41,100 --> 00:29:44,300
he was doing something illegal
but there was never enough

474
00:29:44,300 --> 00:29:47,600
evidence and they needed him
since a most of the people who

475
00:29:47,600 --> 00:29:50,700
worked on staff were older
people and he could lift the

476
00:29:50,700 --> 00:29:55,500
bodies like by himself, right?
In the span of about a year,

477
00:29:55,500 --> 00:29:58,300
John becomes a father moves out
into his own apartment with some

478
00:29:58,300 --> 00:30:01,900
of his former classmates finds a
good job and still has time to

479
00:30:01,900 --> 00:30:03,800
arrest an abuse gay men in his
spare time.

480
00:30:05,700 --> 00:30:08,900
To be fair though it was much
less often Benny had stopped

481
00:30:08,900 --> 00:30:12,800
reaching out as much.
He he said that he just lost the

482
00:30:12,800 --> 00:30:15,300
fire and being a Neo-Nazi
homophobe.

483
00:30:15,600 --> 00:30:18,000
It just takes a lot out of it.
Does it down?

484
00:30:20,800 --> 00:30:24,300
Occasionally John would show up.
At Benny's house, you know, drag

485
00:30:24,300 --> 00:30:27,600
him out for old time's sakes.
It was a lie, though.

486
00:30:27,600 --> 00:30:30,400
He hadn't lost the fire.
The fact was that he was sick

487
00:30:30,500 --> 00:30:33,000
and he didn't want to spend the
last years of his life being a

488
00:30:33,008 --> 00:30:34,900
hateful piece of crap.
Oh okay.

489
00:30:35,900 --> 00:30:40,200
I can understand that he had
throat cancer and eventually he

490
00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:43,100
did tell John John was a loyal
friend.

491
00:30:43,700 --> 00:30:46,800
The only friend who visited him
in the hospital even though he

492
00:30:46,800 --> 00:30:52,400
hated hospitals and then one day
Benny just never woke up again.

493
00:30:52,500 --> 00:30:55,500
No.
John wasn't there to see The Old

494
00:30:55,500 --> 00:30:58,400
Man Died.
He went to Benny's apartment to

495
00:30:58,400 --> 00:31:03,400
pick up all of the literature
that Benny had, that might make

496
00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:08,700
him look bad.
He took it to his apartment and

497
00:31:08,700 --> 00:31:11,200
he left out the Tamer
propaganda, so that his

498
00:31:11,200 --> 00:31:14,400
roommates could see it, but that
he hid the stuff that was really

499
00:31:14,400 --> 00:31:18,200
bad.
You know, this is the equivalent

500
00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:20,500
of make sure you clear my
browser history.

501
00:31:20,500 --> 00:31:26,300
All right, all right.
Jonathan tried to live a normal

502
00:31:26,300 --> 00:31:32,100
life but he was fixated on the
subject of pedophiles.

503
00:31:32,500 --> 00:31:34,900
Like his roommate said that he
was obsessed.

504
00:31:36,100 --> 00:31:40,700
To the point where it got to the
point where like what they'd be

505
00:31:40,700 --> 00:31:43,200
drinking and he'd be like,
pedophiles everybody be like?

506
00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:46,400
No, stop.
Like they were just all yell at

507
00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:49,800
him to stop talking.
It's like, it's like when I go

508
00:31:49,800 --> 00:31:52,500
out drinking I'm like Pokemon.
I'm like, no.

509
00:31:56,200 --> 00:31:59,200
Gotcha.
But is his group of friends

510
00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:00,600
drank?
They spent nights like young

511
00:32:00,600 --> 00:32:04,800
people do, and then the mother
of his child showed up with his

512
00:32:04,800 --> 00:32:08,600
two-year-old daughter.
Sorry, two-year-old son.

513
00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:14,300
I don't know why I wrote my
notes.

514
00:32:15,800 --> 00:32:20,000
Now his ex I won't say x.
His former one night stand would

515
00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:24,100
stop by and frequently to pick
up money and to let him see a

516
00:32:24,100 --> 00:32:26,700
little boy.
But this meeting was different.

517
00:32:27,600 --> 00:32:30,500
She brought the boy so that John
could say goodbye because they

518
00:32:30,500 --> 00:32:33,200
were leaving and moving to
London.

519
00:32:35,600 --> 00:32:40,700
Oh yeah, he was as big upset
with between this and that

520
00:32:40,800 --> 00:32:43,400
Danny's death.
He went into a, it was a total

521
00:32:43,400 --> 00:32:47,500
downward spiral quits his job at
the crematorium and he's just at

522
00:32:47,500 --> 00:32:49,800
home and he's depressed, and
he's angry.

523
00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:51,900
And then one of his friends
Kenny read.

524
00:32:51,900 --> 00:32:54,400
Is this like, what if we just go
somewhere else?

525
00:32:55,600 --> 00:32:57,900
And he was like yes let's do
that.

526
00:32:58,700 --> 00:33:02,400
So they make a plan and sell off
all their stuff by a crappy car

527
00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:06,300
and they're just going to drive
to the West Coast driving to the

528
00:33:06,300 --> 00:33:10,800
West Coast of Australia from
there on the east coast is like

529
00:33:10,800 --> 00:33:13,500
me saying, all right?
Brian, we're gonna drive to

530
00:33:13,500 --> 00:33:16,700
California, so I thought, yeah,
it's probably far as hell.

531
00:33:17,700 --> 00:33:21,100
It's really far and they did not
have that much money.

532
00:33:23,800 --> 00:33:26,600
In fact, the road trip did not
go Oh, very well at all.

533
00:33:27,400 --> 00:33:30,500
Just before John left.
He did visit his parents told

534
00:33:30,500 --> 00:33:31,300
him.
He was leaving.

535
00:33:31,300 --> 00:33:32,900
He give him a call.
When he got wherever he was

536
00:33:32,900 --> 00:33:35,800
going note, I have not mentioned
his parents name.

537
00:33:35,800 --> 00:33:39,000
I think, right?
I wonder why they don't want to

538
00:33:39,000 --> 00:33:41,000
be.
They don't, they don't want to

539
00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:46,400
be a part of the story.
Six different books.

540
00:33:46,400 --> 00:33:48,100
Not a one time.
Was this?

541
00:33:48,300 --> 00:33:51,500
This is these people named, you
know, they really sound.

542
00:33:51,500 --> 00:33:53,800
Like, stay went, probably to
Great pains.

543
00:33:53,800 --> 00:33:55,000
They probably changed their
names.

544
00:33:56,000 --> 00:33:59,800
A lot of it happens a lot, but
you do a road trip is not go.

545
00:33:59,800 --> 00:34:02,200
Well, none of the rooms were
particularly experienced

546
00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:04,700
drivers.
The path to get out.

547
00:34:04,700 --> 00:34:08,199
West is in some places, very
rugged.

548
00:34:09,400 --> 00:34:14,000
They ended up looping around
looping around ultimately, they

549
00:34:14,000 --> 00:34:18,300
ran a gas money, and they end up
pushing their car into the city

550
00:34:18,300 --> 00:34:24,199
of Adelaide now.
So I've sent you In our chat,

551
00:34:24,199 --> 00:34:30,400
Brian a screenshot.
That is the bizarre path that

552
00:34:30,400 --> 00:34:35,500
these kids took, they didn't go
west really, they went mostly

553
00:34:35,500 --> 00:34:39,000
South.
What the heck about 2,000

554
00:34:39,000 --> 00:34:42,800
kilometers from Anala to
Adelaide?

555
00:34:42,900 --> 00:34:47,199
It's like, as far as the rut,
like, there's a whole two-thirds

556
00:34:47,199 --> 00:34:50,600
of the country left, they did
not get anywhere near.

557
00:34:50,600 --> 00:34:53,100
They said they wanted to, that's
like is driving.

558
00:34:53,100 --> 00:34:56,600
That's, that's like a, that's a
route to our West Virginia.

559
00:34:56,699 --> 00:35:00,100
If you're from, where were ya,
Maybe it's not that.

560
00:35:00,100 --> 00:35:04,000
I mean I would say that that
looks like from where we are

561
00:35:04,000 --> 00:35:08,400
right now, we went South towards
Florida and then made an Abrupt

562
00:35:08,400 --> 00:35:13,400
turn left Kentucky and now we're
in like Kentucky or Mississippi

563
00:35:13,800 --> 00:35:18,000
like completely off and we're
like we went West I mean sorta

564
00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:24,700
you meant Midwest.
Thing is though a delay was a

565
00:35:24,707 --> 00:35:28,700
much bigger Community than the
15,000 people in Enola.

566
00:35:29,600 --> 00:35:32,600
Adelaide actually, almost had a
million citizens in 1984.

567
00:35:32,600 --> 00:35:35,700
This was what they were dreaming
of, they just didn't realize

568
00:35:35,700 --> 00:35:40,100
that it was so close.
Most of him and his friends had

569
00:35:40,100 --> 00:35:43,200
jobs within the first 24 hours.
A lot of the guys are working in

570
00:35:43,200 --> 00:35:45,000
a bar, the girls were out of
work.

571
00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:48,300
That shops John actually didn't
find a job right away.

572
00:35:48,600 --> 00:35:51,000
He walked the city.
The first night looking for

573
00:35:51,200 --> 00:35:54,400
signs of gay men.
He like notice their Hangouts

574
00:35:54,400 --> 00:35:57,200
and spots and then he realized,
holy crap.

575
00:35:57,200 --> 00:35:59,400
This isn't like an all at all
here.

576
00:35:59,400 --> 00:36:02,400
Gay men, just kind of walk
around like it's normal.

577
00:36:02,400 --> 00:36:04,400
They were holding hands.
It was definitely a bit of a

578
00:36:04,408 --> 00:36:09,500
culture shock.
Don decided that if he was going

579
00:36:09,500 --> 00:36:13,800
to continue being a violent
homophobe, he was going to have

580
00:36:13,800 --> 00:36:17,000
to change it up.
The police allowed this which

581
00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:20,600
meant they were in on it and he
wouldn't just be walking around

582
00:36:20,600 --> 00:36:22,500
the park.
The other thing was, he does

583
00:36:22,500 --> 00:36:24,500
friends may have traveled
together but they weren't all

584
00:36:24,500 --> 00:36:26,800
living together.
And generally what would happen

585
00:36:26,800 --> 00:36:30,000
in this situation, was that
someone would get a job, they

586
00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:34,000
would get a contract and then
you could take that contract to

587
00:36:34,000 --> 00:36:37,400
a landlord and be like, look,
here's proof that I'm working,

588
00:36:37,400 --> 00:36:41,000
but I don't have the money now
and that was good enough to get

589
00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:45,800
you into a place.
Back then really know three

590
00:36:45,800 --> 00:36:48,400
months rent to move in.
That's interesting.

591
00:36:49,800 --> 00:36:55,200
So most of his friends had done
that and John had spent his time

592
00:36:55,200 --> 00:36:59,000
prospecting, he didn't want the
high-paying labor jobs or the

593
00:36:59,000 --> 00:37:02,500
bartender gigs and then walking
down the street.

594
00:37:02,500 --> 00:37:04,700
The following morning, he found
it.

595
00:37:05,300 --> 00:37:11,500
An abattoir AKA a slaughterhouse
and almost called to him the

596
00:37:11,500 --> 00:37:14,200
blood and the screams.
Is of the animals.

597
00:37:14,900 --> 00:37:17,700
In fact, most of the livestock
in Southern Australia passed

598
00:37:17,700 --> 00:37:20,000
through a delayed.
So there were a lot of

599
00:37:20,000 --> 00:37:22,200
slaughterhouses and there was a
lot of work.

600
00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:25,700
John began working for South
Australia, meet Corporation,

601
00:37:25,700 --> 00:37:29,200
almost immediately.
And his like first hour, he was

602
00:37:29,200 --> 00:37:34,300
there, he impressed his bosses
with a very natural Talent with

603
00:37:34,300 --> 00:37:37,200
a knife.
They said that he moved like a

604
00:37:37,200 --> 00:37:40,200
chef no wasted motion, very
efficient.

605
00:37:40,500 --> 00:37:42,900
And so, they decided to put him
on a production.

606
00:37:43,100 --> 00:37:46,900
Mind to test him that day.
There were people.

607
00:37:48,800 --> 00:37:53,200
The production line is where the
first kill happens.

608
00:37:54,300 --> 00:37:56,500
When the animals come in and
they're still alive.

609
00:37:56,500 --> 00:38:01,400
Don't you went first?
Okay, do not worry about people

610
00:38:01,400 --> 00:38:04,500
murder yet.
Okay, but like, this was where

611
00:38:04,500 --> 00:38:07,000
like the solder house the bosses
would put you to see if you

612
00:38:07,008 --> 00:38:12,400
could handle it.
He cut the first throat of a

613
00:38:12,400 --> 00:38:14,400
living animal.
Animal, without even flinching

614
00:38:14,900 --> 00:38:17,300
manager, were like pet.
We found a good one.

615
00:38:19,000 --> 00:38:21,300
What is hiring papers in hand?
He meets up with his friend,

616
00:38:21,300 --> 00:38:23,800
Kevin read and Kevin's
girlfriend, their jobs didn't

617
00:38:23,800 --> 00:38:27,100
really pay as well as John's.
And so, they were like, listen,

618
00:38:27,100 --> 00:38:30,800
we can get a place together and
you can kind of sleep here, too,

619
00:38:30,800 --> 00:38:33,300
and it'll help you afford this
place that we want.

620
00:38:33,600 --> 00:38:35,800
So, John didn't really care.
He was like, I'll sleep on the

621
00:38:35,800 --> 00:38:38,700
couch.
I don't care with three rents,

622
00:38:38,700 --> 00:38:42,200
they had more than enough money
for the one bedroom and a whole

623
00:38:42,200 --> 00:38:47,900
lot of income for booze and fun.
John used his extra money to

624
00:38:47,900 --> 00:38:51,200
collect weapons.
Neo-Nazi magazines and his

625
00:38:51,200 --> 00:38:52,800
friends were like, Ah, that's
the John.

626
00:38:52,800 --> 00:38:56,400
We remember, he actually got
into metalworking and started

627
00:38:56,400 --> 00:38:59,100
taking classes at a local
college and he bought lots of

628
00:38:59,100 --> 00:39:02,800
tools for his classes.
Kevin, and his girlfriend, use

629
00:39:02,800 --> 00:39:06,500
their money to begin nesting.
They got a puppy and they bought

630
00:39:06,500 --> 00:39:12,700
pillows and cute things.
Additionally enough, the thrill

631
00:39:12,700 --> 00:39:15,300
of killing animals, sort of
dampened.

632
00:39:15,300 --> 00:39:17,900
After working at The
Slaughterhouse, he didn't really

633
00:39:17,900 --> 00:39:21,600
have a He didn't get the throw
any more.

634
00:39:21,800 --> 00:39:24,400
He was feeling restless those
because you were doing, yes, a

635
00:39:24,400 --> 00:39:26,500
job now.
So obviously, he's going to be

636
00:39:26,500 --> 00:39:31,100
any fun anymore, his work
friends, loved him and his

637
00:39:31,100 --> 00:39:35,500
bosses gave him raises and it
just didn't fill the void for a

638
00:39:35,508 --> 00:39:36,700
bit.
He kind of came to terms with

639
00:39:36,700 --> 00:39:39,400
the fact that maybe he just
wasn't somebody who got to be

640
00:39:39,400 --> 00:39:43,300
feel satisfied in life.
Also working at The

641
00:39:43,308 --> 00:39:45,600
Slaughterhouse, he didn't have a
chance to meet a lot of girls

642
00:39:45,600 --> 00:39:49,200
because everybody thought that
job was pretty awful.

643
00:39:50,000 --> 00:39:53,600
But while he was his college
classes, one day, he met a girl

644
00:39:53,600 --> 00:39:57,700
Veronica trip and she got to see
John at his best.

645
00:39:57,800 --> 00:40:01,900
He attentive a good student kind
to his classmates really

646
00:40:01,900 --> 00:40:06,300
dedicated to learning and his
teachers were totally like in

647
00:40:06,300 --> 00:40:09,800
love with him because he didn't
just want to know how to use the

648
00:40:09,800 --> 00:40:12,500
blowtorch.
He wanted to know how it worked.

649
00:40:12,700 --> 00:40:15,100
And teachers, always loved
students, who take extra

650
00:40:15,100 --> 00:40:19,000
interest in the class true, his
class, his classmates were kind

651
00:40:19,000 --> 00:40:21,100
of lackluster.
Early preparing for like, an

652
00:40:21,100 --> 00:40:24,100
entry-level job.
But John was studying so hard.

653
00:40:24,100 --> 00:40:27,100
It was it was like he knew that
he could do something really

654
00:40:27,100 --> 00:40:29,000
great with this, if he just
mastered it.

655
00:40:31,300 --> 00:40:37,400
Veronica was drawn to him.
And he turned that same kind of

656
00:40:37,400 --> 00:40:40,300
focus that he had on class on to
her.

657
00:40:42,000 --> 00:40:45,600
And when someone showers you
with that kind of attention,

658
00:40:46,500 --> 00:40:50,300
It's Kind of Wonderful.
Today, we might talk about like,

659
00:40:50,300 --> 00:40:52,500
love-bombing and being worried
about it.

660
00:40:52,800 --> 00:40:56,200
But this was like a fire between
the two of them, they got

661
00:40:56,200 --> 00:40:59,200
married a couple months later,
their reception was at a couple

662
00:40:59,200 --> 00:41:03,200
of bars battle made.
And most of the people there

663
00:41:03,300 --> 00:41:06,000
were people who were As part of
like they just for people who

664
00:41:06,000 --> 00:41:09,300
like flocked to John, because he
was just this intense man.

665
00:41:12,700 --> 00:41:15,000
Veronica was so into him.
As she didn't even realize that

666
00:41:15,000 --> 00:41:17,600
her first night being married,
she was gonna be sleeping.

667
00:41:17,600 --> 00:41:23,700
On the couch problem.
Was one bedroom is much too

668
00:41:23,700 --> 00:41:26,400
small for two couples and John
didn't want to leave his friends

669
00:41:26,400 --> 00:41:28,800
without rent money, but he was
definitely annoyed that Kevin

670
00:41:28,800 --> 00:41:30,600
wasn't going to move to a bigger
space.

671
00:41:33,000 --> 00:41:35,500
He also kind of came and it also
was a weird thing because his

672
00:41:35,500 --> 00:41:39,300
work shift changed and he was
working nights and everybody

673
00:41:39,300 --> 00:41:41,000
else in the house work during
the day.

674
00:41:41,200 --> 00:41:44,100
And so he was always coming home
to an empty house.

675
00:41:44,100 --> 00:41:45,800
He never got time to see
Veronica.

676
00:41:46,000 --> 00:41:52,100
And one time when he was at home
trigger warning, the dog dies

677
00:41:52,500 --> 00:41:54,800
for folks who are worried about
those kind of triggers.

678
00:41:57,300 --> 00:42:03,700
John used his blowtorch On
Kevin's daunted.

679
00:42:04,800 --> 00:42:10,300
Yes, he did for fun and then he
buried it before they got home

680
00:42:10,600 --> 00:42:13,900
and then he told them that there
had been an accident while he

681
00:42:13,900 --> 00:42:17,600
was welding.
Instead of denying it, he just

682
00:42:17,600 --> 00:42:21,600
kind of sat there silently as
Kevin's girlfriend lost her

683
00:42:22,100 --> 00:42:28,600
mind, she was she was yelling at
him, accusing him crying and his

684
00:42:28,600 --> 00:42:32,100
friends had never really seen
John like sit there quiet.

685
00:42:32,800 --> 00:42:36,000
So they were like oh this
obviously affected him really

686
00:42:36,000 --> 00:42:40,900
bad and they eventually were
like, you know, he would never

687
00:42:40,900 --> 00:42:44,000
just kill an animal because it
didn't like him because that dog

688
00:42:44,000 --> 00:42:47,800
never liked him.
This event.

689
00:42:47,800 --> 00:42:49,800
However, ruined their little
family that they've been

690
00:42:49,800 --> 00:42:52,600
building even after Kevin's
girlfriend calm down and

691
00:42:52,600 --> 00:42:55,200
Veronica and John moved to a
suburb of Adelaide called

692
00:42:55,200 --> 00:42:57,600
Salisbury North.
It's a they bought a big

693
00:42:57,600 --> 00:43:01,200
beautiful Bungalow but it was
much lower class than Adelaide.

694
00:43:02,800 --> 00:43:07,400
There was less of a community in
this place and most people were

695
00:43:07,400 --> 00:43:11,200
just barely scraping by the area
is plagued with drugs crime

696
00:43:11,200 --> 00:43:15,400
homelessness illness and John
loved it.

697
00:43:18,700 --> 00:43:24,500
So we'll change gears and we'll
talk about our next member

698
00:43:25,200 --> 00:43:29,800
Robert Jill.
Wagner born November 28, 1971,

699
00:43:31,200 --> 00:43:33,300
Robert had a pretty awful
childhood marred.

700
00:43:33,300 --> 00:43:35,700
With moments of his father's
extreme abuse.

701
00:43:36,700 --> 00:43:40,700
He was covered in scars so it is
no surprise that when Robert was

702
00:43:40,700 --> 00:43:45,200
13 year old and he met a older
queer man.

703
00:43:46,000 --> 00:43:52,100
He was the Perfect victim to be
groomed that older, man was

704
00:43:52,100 --> 00:43:56,100
Berry Lane berry lived on
Bingham Road and he had just

705
00:43:56,100 --> 00:43:59,600
served a prison sentence for
raping two. 12 year, old boys,

706
00:44:00,500 --> 00:44:06,600
when he meets Robert, my God It
was about 6 foot tall, and he

707
00:44:06,600 --> 00:44:08,900
often wore women's clothes, and
sometimes I buy the name.

708
00:44:08,900 --> 00:44:12,800
Vanessa, he described himself as
a transvestite.

709
00:44:12,800 --> 00:44:17,200
And so that is what I will do.
Barry was not a well-liked

710
00:44:17,200 --> 00:44:20,500
person and Roberts parents
didn't like the two of them

711
00:44:20,500 --> 00:44:23,800
spending time together.
The relationship by today's

712
00:44:23,800 --> 00:44:27,900
standard would be absolutely
statutory rape Robert kept

713
00:44:27,900 --> 00:44:29,600
running away from home to be
with Barry.

714
00:44:29,600 --> 00:44:32,500
It was a weird dynamic because
the the Wagner's were trying to

715
00:44:32,500 --> 00:44:37,900
rein their son in Um, what
Robert had kind of fun, Ally

716
00:44:38,700 --> 00:44:41,100
Roberts, parents were worried
that if they reported Barry, he

717
00:44:41,100 --> 00:44:44,300
might run away with their son.
At least, if they allowed it,

718
00:44:44,300 --> 00:44:47,100
they knew where to find him, he
was a phone call away.

719
00:44:49,900 --> 00:44:52,300
Very cooked for him, and in some
ways cared for him.

720
00:44:52,300 --> 00:44:55,600
In the ways of his parents,
didn't eventually the Wagner's

721
00:44:55,600 --> 00:44:59,900
gave up.
Robert Asian to adulthood with

722
00:44:59,900 --> 00:45:03,300
his wife.
Vanessa and no one in town

723
00:45:03,300 --> 00:45:04,900
really bothered to think about
it.

724
00:45:04,900 --> 00:45:11,000
After Robert was 18, Passes.
Yeah.

725
00:45:11,000 --> 00:45:15,500
Absolutely.
It's 1991 and 24 year-old John

726
00:45:15,500 --> 00:45:20,800
and that 20 year old.
Robert neat just as John moves

727
00:45:20,800 --> 00:45:26,300
into Salisbury Barry was
surprised because it was kind of

728
00:45:26,300 --> 00:45:30,600
like John was well known as
being an anti-gay Nazi, but John

729
00:45:30,600 --> 00:45:32,600
and Robert became friends right
away.

730
00:45:34,300 --> 00:45:37,300
Robert saw and John, somebody
who'd made it through terrible

731
00:45:37,300 --> 00:45:38,900
things.
And emerge with the strength

732
00:45:38,900 --> 00:45:43,700
that he just didn't have John
was funny, he was bubbly.

733
00:45:43,700 --> 00:45:46,200
He was like a almost a brotherly
kind of friendship.

734
00:45:46,200 --> 00:45:51,500
Their John's wife Veronica was
pretty used to this this is this

735
00:45:51,500 --> 00:45:55,200
was what would happen.
People would meet John and they

736
00:45:55,200 --> 00:45:58,200
were just kind of fall for him
but in like a friend way.

737
00:45:58,400 --> 00:46:02,100
Hmm.
John invited, Robert and Vanessa

738
00:46:02,100 --> 00:46:04,900
to the house once he and
Veronica got settled and the

739
00:46:04,900 --> 00:46:09,300
house was already Veronica was
more than it was.

740
00:46:09,300 --> 00:46:12,800
Very worried when Robert should
up with a beer and this very

741
00:46:12,800 --> 00:46:17,600
obviously cross-dressing Vanessa
arrived John ignored.

742
00:46:17,600 --> 00:46:21,500
The fact that Vanessa was a 40
year old man who is crass and

743
00:46:21,500 --> 00:46:25,200
rather unpleasant and instead
focused his attention on Robert,

744
00:46:25,300 --> 00:46:27,600
the two bonded over the fact
that they were abused as

745
00:46:27,600 --> 00:46:30,800
children.
When Robert mentioned that he'd

746
00:46:30,800 --> 00:46:38,000
been 13 when he and bearing that
Veronica John's wife was like

747
00:46:38,000 --> 00:46:42,600
shocked and appalled for John
though it's little fight.

748
00:46:42,600 --> 00:46:46,300
Exactly what he guessed.
He didn't drop his cover though

749
00:46:47,200 --> 00:46:49,300
and Veronica.
Was frankly surprised that John

750
00:46:49,300 --> 00:46:53,100
wasn't going off on one of his
pedophile tangents and instead

751
00:46:53,100 --> 00:46:56,000
was playing a good host.
When this man just admitted to

752
00:46:56,000 --> 00:47:01,000
grooming his fiancee Like
everybody knew John hates

753
00:47:01,000 --> 00:47:02,400
pedophiles more than anybody
else.

754
00:47:02,900 --> 00:47:06,700
But when Robert and Vanessa left
arm and our John, looked at him

755
00:47:06,800 --> 00:47:10,000
and just said, he'll get his,
don't you worry?

756
00:47:12,500 --> 00:47:15,300
But December of 1991, the
Bunting family is fully settled

757
00:47:15,300 --> 00:47:17,600
in.
Robert has a new best friend.

758
00:47:17,600 --> 00:47:20,400
John's friend Circle was pretty
much everyone who had fallen

759
00:47:20,400 --> 00:47:23,200
through the cracks and life or
people with very extreme

760
00:47:23,200 --> 00:47:26,000
political views.
His own little crew who had been

761
00:47:26,000 --> 00:47:31,100
abandoned and hurt by Society.
The closer that Robert got to

762
00:47:31,100 --> 00:47:33,500
John though, the more strain,
the relationship with Barry

763
00:47:33,500 --> 00:47:38,100
became Barry wouldn't even like,
Barry was like, that kind of

764
00:47:38,100 --> 00:47:43,600
partner who is jealous kind of
or nervous or insecure and won't

765
00:47:43,600 --> 00:47:45,000
let you go anywhere without
them.

766
00:47:45,300 --> 00:47:47,600
So whenever Robert went to
John's house to hang out with

767
00:47:47,600 --> 00:47:51,900
him, Barry had to come to and
his plan was to be as awful as

768
00:47:51,900 --> 00:47:55,900
possible whenever he was around,
John to try and get him to snap.

769
00:47:57,400 --> 00:48:00,000
So that Barry could be like,
listen, see your friends.

770
00:48:00,000 --> 00:48:04,500
A horrible guy should like stop
hanging out with them. the

771
00:48:04,500 --> 00:48:10,000
problem was John was very
controlled and Frankly Barry was

772
00:48:10,000 --> 00:48:13,600
on the list of people, he wanted
to take care of, but he had his

773
00:48:13,600 --> 00:48:16,200
eyes on someone else.
The man who would become his

774
00:48:16,200 --> 00:48:19,700
first victim Clinton, Tracy's,
Clinton was kind of caught up in

775
00:48:19,700 --> 00:48:23,400
the era of John and so he didn't
notice things changing.

776
00:48:25,100 --> 00:48:28,300
Originally when John would go on
these anti pedophile ranty just

777
00:48:28,300 --> 00:48:32,800
like get up and leave like it
started innocuous.

778
00:48:33,200 --> 00:48:36,900
John would pick on Clinton.
He called him happy pants and it

779
00:48:36,900 --> 00:48:39,100
didn't really mean anything.
But you know when someone's

780
00:48:39,100 --> 00:48:43,200
trying to insult you.
Yeah and then like when Quentin

781
00:48:43,200 --> 00:48:46,500
would leave and the he was
around all the other people John

782
00:48:46,500 --> 00:48:49,600
would like mimic Clinton and
like Bend his wrist and of

783
00:48:49,607 --> 00:48:52,000
course all the other lackeys
just laughed.

784
00:48:56,100 --> 00:48:59,600
As John start focusing more on
his desire to kill.

785
00:48:59,900 --> 00:49:01,900
He got less interested in the
slaughterhouse.

786
00:49:02,500 --> 00:49:04,900
He went from being the best
employee to being the worst

787
00:49:04,900 --> 00:49:06,200
name.
Very short time.

788
00:49:06,800 --> 00:49:09,100
Some of it had to do with being
surrounded by people who were

789
00:49:09,100 --> 00:49:10,800
like Bottom Feeders in the
community.

790
00:49:10,800 --> 00:49:14,200
But I think the real change had
to do with the fact that he now

791
00:49:14,200 --> 00:49:16,000
had new plans and North
Salisbury.

792
00:49:16,900 --> 00:49:21,100
John thought that this was an
opportunity to indulge in what

793
00:49:21,100 --> 00:49:26,800
he really wanted to do.
Veronica was worried because we

794
00:49:26,800 --> 00:49:28,900
had bills to pay and he quit his
job.

795
00:49:29,500 --> 00:49:32,900
She complained more and she just
felt more distant from her

796
00:49:32,900 --> 00:49:37,100
husband, John Clinton, Robert
and Barry would just sit around

797
00:49:37,100 --> 00:49:40,500
the house.
All day watching TV while she

798
00:49:40,500 --> 00:49:43,300
worked now.
John hadn't forgotten about bury

799
00:49:43,300 --> 00:49:46,200
the child molester, but he knew
that he couldn't do anything to

800
00:49:46,200 --> 00:49:48,500
bury as long as Robert was still
dating him.

801
00:49:52,500 --> 00:49:57,000
August of 1992 would be around
the time that John realized.

802
00:49:59,600 --> 00:50:06,100
His own Darkness.
I need to hurt to feel better

803
00:50:06,100 --> 00:50:10,300
about what happened to me.
Killing animals doesn't do fix

804
00:50:10,300 --> 00:50:14,900
it anymore.
So he kept bullying Clinton and

805
00:50:14,900 --> 00:50:19,100
one day, Clinton tried to like
laugh it off and John responded.

806
00:50:19,100 --> 00:50:21,700
You think this is funny to you.
You think it's funny to touch

807
00:50:21,700 --> 00:50:23,700
little kids that can't protect
themselves?

808
00:50:24,800 --> 00:50:27,900
Clinton was super thrown off as
would any reasonable person

809
00:50:27,900 --> 00:50:31,600
would be if someone just toss
this accusation at you, right?

810
00:50:31,600 --> 00:50:34,700
Yeah.
We talking about, dude, so

811
00:50:34,700 --> 00:50:37,800
Clinton was like, fuck off and
John got up and went outside and

812
00:50:37,800 --> 00:50:39,900
grabbed a shovel.
And before Clinton knew what was

813
00:50:39,900 --> 00:50:43,400
happening, John swung, the
shovel at the back of his head.

814
00:50:43,600 --> 00:50:47,100
Clinton landed face it.
On the carpet blood dripping,

815
00:50:47,100 --> 00:50:50,700
from a fractured skull.
He looked up at Barry and was

816
00:50:50,700 --> 00:50:54,400
just like, fuck you and then
John said, fuck you.

817
00:50:54,600 --> 00:50:59,800
And hit him again, banging his
face so hard into the floor,

818
00:50:59,800 --> 00:51:04,100
that it broke his teeth.
Robert started screaming and

819
00:51:04,100 --> 00:51:07,500
freaking out, but Barry was
like, no, no, no.

820
00:51:07,500 --> 00:51:10,600
You need to stay cool because he
buries an ex-con, and he knew

821
00:51:10,600 --> 00:51:13,900
that bare minimum.
If this came out, both Berry and

822
00:51:13,900 --> 00:51:17,500
John are going to jail and he
thought that Robert just needed

823
00:51:17,500 --> 00:51:21,500
protection.
So, Johnson Robert to get the

824
00:51:21,500 --> 00:51:24,500
tools to keep them preoccupied,
they put the body in the back of

825
00:51:24,500 --> 00:51:27,500
a pickup truck drove on a one
North out of town.

826
00:51:30,100 --> 00:51:33,000
They got to lower light.
Township dug a shallow, grave

827
00:51:33,200 --> 00:51:37,300
drop Clinton's remains in the
hole and no one smoke Robert

828
00:51:37,300 --> 00:51:40,100
rationalized that John must have
learned something about Clinton

829
00:51:40,100 --> 00:51:43,500
to make these accusations.
No normal.

830
00:51:43,500 --> 00:51:45,800
Person will kill somebody just
because they were born.

831
00:51:50,000 --> 00:51:55,200
That was August, 31st 1992 would
be almost a year or two years

832
00:51:55,200 --> 00:51:58,500
before his body would be found
on August 16th 1994.

833
00:51:59,900 --> 00:52:04,400
After this Berry changed his
whole Mo in terms of trying to

834
00:52:04,400 --> 00:52:12,200
make John mad.
Good job, really rants.

835
00:52:12,200 --> 00:52:15,600
They were accusations and he
knew that John knew something

836
00:52:15,600 --> 00:52:20,500
about him and he had every
reason to be afraid, he stopped

837
00:52:20,500 --> 00:52:23,300
going to John's house with
Robert and that was really all

838
00:52:23,300 --> 00:52:25,400
they needed eventually the two
of them broke up.

839
00:52:27,000 --> 00:52:30,300
As for August 31st, 1980 to
Veronica, comes home to an empty

840
00:52:30,300 --> 00:52:33,300
house with her rug gone and John
doesn't come back until about

841
00:52:33,300 --> 00:52:36,500
3:00 a.m. he smelled like beer
and she wasn't even going to

842
00:52:36,500 --> 00:52:40,200
bother asking where he went
Veronica was in a bad place.

843
00:52:40,200 --> 00:52:42,900
At this time they were growing
apart.

844
00:52:44,400 --> 00:52:47,000
He wouldn't even answer her.
If she asked him questions every

845
00:52:47,000 --> 00:52:50,100
time she thought about leaving
it was like he sensed it and

846
00:52:50,100 --> 00:52:53,300
there he was charismatic and
funny and reminding her why she

847
00:52:53,300 --> 00:52:56,600
liked him in the first place.
They had virtually no sex life.

848
00:52:56,700 --> 00:52:58,500
Life.
And John, didn't push her or

849
00:52:58,500 --> 00:53:01,100
bother her about it?
He assumed that he would just go

850
00:53:01,100 --> 00:53:04,300
somewhere else.
And so, he started hooking up

851
00:53:04,300 --> 00:53:06,500
with a woman in the neighborhood
named Suzanne Allen.

852
00:53:07,100 --> 00:53:09,700
It wasn't really a proper
Affair, it was just sex.

853
00:53:11,300 --> 00:53:13,500
And when he would go visit her,
he tell Veronica, he was

854
00:53:13,500 --> 00:53:17,600
visiting his friend Ray, who
lives in a shed, and he lived in

855
00:53:17,600 --> 00:53:22,600
an RV in behind, Susan's house.
This one on for years.

856
00:53:24,900 --> 00:53:30,500
Also around this time, he meets
Elizabeth Harvey and when he

857
00:53:30,500 --> 00:53:33,600
meets Elizabeth Harvey, he
treats her like a queen almost

858
00:53:33,600 --> 00:53:36,000
the extreme opposite of how he
was treating Suzanne.

859
00:53:36,800 --> 00:53:39,500
Of course just like Veronica
was, love bombs.

860
00:53:39,500 --> 00:53:43,300
Elizabeth is swept up in all the
attention but she was worried

861
00:53:43,400 --> 00:53:46,700
that he would go back to his
wife and she didn't want to

862
00:53:46,707 --> 00:53:51,100
introduce him to her son and she
was like he's gonna This will

863
00:53:51,100 --> 00:53:54,500
make him run away the exact
opposite happened.

864
00:53:56,400 --> 00:54:00,200
Elizabeth Harvey.
Son is James Moustakas.

865
00:54:01,000 --> 00:54:05,400
If you remember James is one of
the four Killers I listed at the

866
00:54:05,400 --> 00:54:11,200
beginning of the episode.
Actually my God, they called him

867
00:54:11,200 --> 00:54:14,100
Jamie.
And when John met Jamie, he,

868
00:54:14,100 --> 00:54:17,900
they were drawn together because
just like both John and Robert.

869
00:54:18,000 --> 00:54:22,800
Jamie had been abused to Jamie
was born, James spiridonova.

870
00:54:23,700 --> 00:54:28,700
Last was takas On December 24th
1979.

871
00:54:28,900 --> 00:54:32,900
Jamie very similar to Robert had
been abused when he was a young

872
00:54:33,100 --> 00:54:35,800
boy.
This was by both his father and

873
00:54:35,800 --> 00:54:40,300
step brother John immediately
saw Jamie as the kid.

874
00:54:40,300 --> 00:54:44,200
He was before he had taken
control of his life and began

875
00:54:44,200 --> 00:54:47,800
hurting the people who heard him
and he felt this deep need to

876
00:54:47,800 --> 00:54:52,300
make Jamie just like him.
Within a year, he asked

877
00:54:52,300 --> 00:54:55,400
Elizabeth to marry him.
He did not inform Veronica of

878
00:54:55,400 --> 00:55:00,300
this at all Veronica.
Realized he was having an

879
00:55:00,300 --> 00:55:02,100
affair, but she had not to bring
it up.

880
00:55:02,200 --> 00:55:08,800
And then one day, Elizabeth and
just shows up with a moving van

881
00:55:10,000 --> 00:55:15,200
Wie after house.
Yep, this lovely Dan with his

882
00:55:15,200 --> 00:55:17,800
fiancee andronica blamed
herself.

883
00:55:18,400 --> 00:55:20,000
She was the one who stopped
initiating.

884
00:55:20,100 --> 00:55:21,900
Sex.
So he'd gone to somebody else.

885
00:55:22,100 --> 00:55:27,200
John acted.
Like nothing changed Veronica.

886
00:55:27,200 --> 00:55:30,000
Tried to be okay with this but
she couldn't she still very much

887
00:55:30,000 --> 00:55:33,100
love John but she couldn't
handle being treated like this.

888
00:55:33,100 --> 00:55:35,000
So she started staying with her
friends and family.

889
00:55:35,300 --> 00:55:37,800
First it was for a couple days
then weeks and months after

890
00:55:37,800 --> 00:55:40,100
about a year of Ronica stopped
coming home at all.

891
00:55:41,800 --> 00:55:44,200
This was great for John.
Elizabeth had been a really

892
00:55:44,200 --> 00:55:46,500
terrible abusive relationship
beforehand.

893
00:55:46,800 --> 00:55:52,300
So when she got into
relationship with John and this

894
00:55:52,300 --> 00:55:54,300
is how he said it, okay, you
ready?

895
00:55:54,800 --> 00:55:57,000
She knew just how bad things
could be.

896
00:55:59,000 --> 00:56:02,500
That's not a good thing.
No, he used this to his

897
00:56:02,500 --> 00:56:05,500
advantage and urge her to be
more submissive and more

898
00:56:05,500 --> 00:56:08,100
subservient and to do anything
that would make him happy.

899
00:56:10,900 --> 00:56:13,400
Oh yeah, he's a whole scale
predator on multiple levels.

900
00:56:16,800 --> 00:56:23,100
It's 1995, it's a great year for
John, then Jamie moves in after

901
00:56:23,100 --> 00:56:27,400
another fight with his father.
And that was when John began the

902
00:56:27,400 --> 00:56:31,100
indoctrination.
It was only two years since they

903
00:56:31,100 --> 00:56:34,700
first met and Jamie just visited
but Jamie loved John like the

904
00:56:34,700 --> 00:56:37,200
dad.
He never had this was like the

905
00:56:37,200 --> 00:56:41,100
friendship he had with Robert
way more intense John showed

906
00:56:41,100 --> 00:56:45,100
Jamie how great it felt to hunt
and kill animals.

907
00:56:45,500 --> 00:56:50,400
He skinned a cat alive in front
of Jamie the next time Jamie

908
00:56:50,400 --> 00:56:54,600
joined in just 22 to make his
father figure happy.

909
00:56:55,500 --> 00:56:58,300
Now by this time quitting
trustees have been found but he

910
00:56:58,300 --> 00:57:00,800
put in that grave for two.
Ears and his remains were almost

911
00:57:00,800 --> 00:57:04,900
skeletonized.
The police had no leads, and

912
00:57:04,900 --> 00:57:06,500
they had done for the previous
eight months.

913
00:57:06,800 --> 00:57:09,700
It took them so long to identify
him because his face was

914
00:57:09,700 --> 00:57:13,800
shattered and his he's missing
teeth, even when they put

915
00:57:13,800 --> 00:57:15,100
Clinton's name on the news
though.

916
00:57:15,200 --> 00:57:16,900
No one came, no one said
anything.

917
00:57:17,100 --> 00:57:19,700
He had very few friends and his
family didn't even know he was

918
00:57:19,700 --> 00:57:24,500
missing because he had a falling
out with them if that corpse had

919
00:57:24,500 --> 00:57:26,800
never been found, no one would
even known that Clinton was

920
00:57:26,800 --> 00:57:29,400
dead.
Andrew.

921
00:57:29,700 --> 00:57:33,000
Only though, Clinton have been
receiving a benefits checks but

922
00:57:33,000 --> 00:57:36,900
we would call SSI here in the US
and those were piled up in

923
00:57:36,900 --> 00:57:39,800
Clinton's apartment.
It was definitely more common

924
00:57:39,800 --> 00:57:42,300
for someone to kill someone a
collect the checks but that's

925
00:57:42,300 --> 00:57:46,100
dump the police more, right?
It was such it was such a

926
00:57:46,107 --> 00:57:49,100
conundrum that they put
Clinton's case on Australia's

927
00:57:49,100 --> 00:57:52,300
most wanted the to find the
person who killed him and as

928
00:57:52,300 --> 00:57:57,100
that show airs John leans over
and says to Jeanne.

929
00:57:57,500 --> 00:57:59,400
I did that one.
Pat.

930
00:57:59,400 --> 00:58:04,700
Oh wow.
Okay, family concerts quietly

931
00:58:04,700 --> 00:58:07,100
for a moment.
And then Elizabeth says, good on

932
00:58:07,100 --> 00:58:10,300
you.
And so, John takes that just

933
00:58:10,300 --> 00:58:12,400
goes running, can't have him run
around touching kids.

934
00:58:12,400 --> 00:58:14,700
Can I not?
When all it takes is a good

935
00:58:14,700 --> 00:58:16,800
whack to stop him.
The police knew about him and

936
00:58:16,800 --> 00:58:18,700
they did nothing.
Everyone around here, knew what

937
00:58:18,700 --> 00:58:20,400
he was up to.
They all knew and they just let

938
00:58:20,400 --> 00:58:22,000
it happen.
I didn't let it happen.

939
00:58:22,000 --> 00:58:24,100
I wouldn't ever let somebody
hurt kids.

940
00:58:26,300 --> 00:58:28,900
That that that that was for
Jamie.

941
00:58:29,500 --> 00:58:33,400
Hmm.
That was that little dies from

942
00:58:33,400 --> 00:58:36,500
the show.
So Jamie was like, good on you

943
00:58:36,500 --> 00:58:39,000
John.
That was with Johnny to know

944
00:58:39,000 --> 00:58:42,000
that he was Secure in his home.
He just needed some victims to

945
00:58:42,000 --> 00:58:44,200
Dole out his misplaced righteous
Vengeance.

946
00:58:45,100 --> 00:58:48,300
So John started collecting the
names of queer men, living in

947
00:58:48,300 --> 00:58:51,100
the area.
He's still very much connected.

948
00:58:51,100 --> 00:58:54,200
Homosexually the pedophilia.
What you should not do.

949
00:58:54,800 --> 00:58:58,300
And some days when he was mad,
he would call these people on

950
00:58:58,300 --> 00:59:00,200
these lists, he made and like
screaming.

951
00:59:00,300 --> 00:59:04,200
At them.
His next victim ended up being

952
00:59:04,200 --> 00:59:06,400
Ray Davis.
The man Dave, he's the man who

953
00:59:06,400 --> 00:59:10,500
live behind Susan.
Suzanne Alan Ray was 26 at this

954
00:59:10,500 --> 00:59:14,000
point one day, he heard a loud
noise outside of his trailer and

955
00:59:14,000 --> 00:59:17,100
he rushed out fully naked and
Suzanne's.

956
00:59:17,100 --> 00:59:20,000
Grandkids were their kids were
super grossed.

957
00:59:20,000 --> 00:59:21,200
Out.
Their mom was Furious.

958
00:59:21,200 --> 00:59:24,100
The whole neighborhood was
talking about it by the time

959
00:59:24,100 --> 00:59:25,800
that Berry Lane heard.
The story.

960
00:59:25,800 --> 00:59:29,500
It had changed to the point
where it was like, this deeply

961
00:59:29,500 --> 00:59:32,300
troubled, mentally, disabled,
man, tried to force himself on

962
00:59:32,500 --> 00:59:36,900
Suzanne's grandkids.
Ray was already on John's list

963
00:59:36,900 --> 00:59:39,500
but because he because he was
friends with Barry but this

964
00:59:39,500 --> 00:59:42,300
sealed the deal.
John knew that both Barry and

965
00:59:42,300 --> 00:59:47,200
Suzanne had had sex with array.
So he didn't really trust them

966
00:59:47,200 --> 00:59:54,600
to be honest about Ray.
He does seduce Suzanne again and

967
00:59:54,600 --> 00:59:57,800
believing that once she got some
D, she'd be honest during pillow

968
00:59:57,800 --> 01:00:01,000
talk.
Suzanne said that her grandkids

969
01:00:01,000 --> 01:00:04,500
have been propositioned by re
and to John that was still

970
01:00:04,500 --> 01:00:07,900
worthy of death.
So it's December 1995.

971
01:00:08,200 --> 01:00:10,300
He goes to raise house in the
middle of the night, praying

972
01:00:10,300 --> 01:00:13,900
with him.
Robert, Jamie and Elizabeth John

973
01:00:13,900 --> 01:00:16,800
and Robert entered, a trailer,
pick him up, drag him through

974
01:00:16,800 --> 01:00:19,900
the backyard and down the street
and to John's house, they March

975
01:00:19,900 --> 01:00:22,500
him into the bathroom tie, a
rope around his neck.

976
01:00:22,900 --> 01:00:26,300
Robert Held it just enough to
immobilize him but not kill him.

977
01:00:28,300 --> 01:00:32,500
Beat him with a cricket bat.
He hands the bat to Jamie.

978
01:00:33,100 --> 01:00:37,400
Jamie follows suit, Elizabeth
kind of inspired by the years of

979
01:00:37,400 --> 01:00:40,100
her at the hands of men like Ray
grabs.

980
01:00:40,100 --> 01:00:43,700
One of John's wrenches and
begins hitting right to they cut

981
01:00:43,700 --> 01:00:47,800
off some of his toes and torture
him for about an hour and then

982
01:00:47,800 --> 01:00:53,400
they hang him in their bathroom.
And they dig a grave in their

983
01:00:53,400 --> 01:00:55,700
own backyard and put right
inside of it.

984
01:00:56,700 --> 01:00:59,200
John was definitely worried.
This was too much for Jamie.

985
01:01:01,600 --> 01:01:04,500
But that was the moment that
Jamie let out some of his rage

986
01:01:04,500 --> 01:01:08,200
for what happened to him at
someone who the town said was a

987
01:01:08,200 --> 01:01:12,500
pedophile, Elizabeth helped by
throwing out raise things in the

988
01:01:12,500 --> 01:01:15,500
morning.
Suzanne was pretty happy to see

989
01:01:15,500 --> 01:01:21,300
that the RV was gone.
They stripped it painted it and

990
01:01:21,300 --> 01:01:24,400
sold it.
And if Suzanne Ever Wanted about

991
01:01:24,400 --> 01:01:25,600
it, she never said anything
there.

992
01:01:25,600 --> 01:01:29,400
John So now John has a sturdy
crew.

993
01:01:29,400 --> 01:01:32,800
Someone want to fill in the
follow him anywhere, right?

994
01:01:32,900 --> 01:01:34,300
Right.
Had been the perfect victim in

995
01:01:34,300 --> 01:01:36,400
John's eyes.
He was a real predator.

996
01:01:37,900 --> 01:01:40,000
On top of the satisfaction of
murder.

997
01:01:40,200 --> 01:01:42,700
John also had some money because
they sold the RV.

998
01:01:44,300 --> 01:01:46,900
And raised benefit checks were
still being mailed to Suzanne's

999
01:01:46,900 --> 01:01:49,800
house.
John pretty much had the same

1000
01:01:49,800 --> 01:01:52,900
kind of iron grip over.
He had his Suzanne before.

1001
01:01:53,700 --> 01:01:58,900
So Unfortunately, Suzanne had
experienced a fair share of

1002
01:01:58,900 --> 01:02:03,000
abuse by men in the past, and
John was just another man who

1003
01:02:03,000 --> 01:02:06,000
abused her.
We don't know for sure if she

1004
01:02:06,000 --> 01:02:09,700
was taking the money from Ray or
like if she was in on the fraud,

1005
01:02:09,900 --> 01:02:11,500
but we do know that she never
told the police.

1006
01:02:11,500 --> 01:02:17,000
Anything John would stop by,
pick up the checks, cash them in

1007
01:02:17,000 --> 01:02:19,800
to raise account and then take
the money out with the bank

1008
01:02:19,800 --> 01:02:24,500
card.
John decided it was at that

1009
01:02:24,500 --> 01:02:25,800
moment.
He needed to move.

1010
01:02:26,300 --> 01:02:29,900
So he got a house in a much more
peaceful area, Murray Bridge,

1011
01:02:29,900 --> 01:02:32,300
which is about 70 miles, east of
Adelaide.

1012
01:02:32,500 --> 01:02:35,800
Much bigger house on a much
bigger piece of land and there

1013
01:02:35,800 --> 01:02:41,000
wasn't a corpse in the yard.
Oh my God, oh my God, the new

1014
01:02:41,000 --> 01:02:45,600
me, the new owners.
Oh yeah, they eventually.

1015
01:02:45,700 --> 01:02:51,500
Oh yeah.
All of this was really to make

1016
01:02:51,500 --> 01:02:53,300
sure they didn't get caught for
Ray's death.

1017
01:02:53,700 --> 01:02:55,600
Just because he moved to a nicer
suburbs.

1018
01:02:55,600 --> 01:02:58,400
So didn't mean he spent any less
time in Adelaide though he was

1019
01:02:58,400 --> 01:03:00,500
stopped by pick up those checks
from Suzanne.

1020
01:03:00,700 --> 01:03:08,200
Say hi to Robert ledbury Lane
know, he was still around. now,

1021
01:03:08,200 --> 01:03:11,200
one of the men who was often
seen in the company of John was

1022
01:03:11,800 --> 01:03:17,900
Mark Hayden, Mark wasn't as
tightly.

1023
01:03:17,900 --> 01:03:20,800
Well I couldn't acted to John at
this point.

1024
01:03:20,900 --> 01:03:24,400
I'm and that was the only
because after John moved Mark

1025
01:03:24,400 --> 01:03:28,300
Fell in Love with the lady named
Elizabeth and Elizabeth did not

1026
01:03:28,300 --> 01:03:32,200
like John any time at John won
anything to do with her

1027
01:03:32,200 --> 01:03:33,900
boyfriend.
Elizabeth was opposed.

1028
01:03:34,400 --> 01:03:36,600
She also wouldn't make fun of
him.

1029
01:03:37,900 --> 01:03:40,600
It appears at least one woman in
North Salisbury was immune to

1030
01:03:40,600 --> 01:03:42,700
his charms.
Here you go.

1031
01:03:43,700 --> 01:03:47,000
Now, John knew he'd lose, Mark,
if he went directly at

1032
01:03:47,000 --> 01:03:51,100
Elizabeth, so he decided to get
close to her via her sister

1033
01:03:51,100 --> 01:03:53,700
Jody.
And he did this by being

1034
01:03:53,700 --> 01:03:56,800
especially kind to Jody.
Son, Fred Brooks.

1035
01:03:56,800 --> 01:04:00,100
Who was young, disabled.
Born disc with a disability?

1036
01:04:00,300 --> 01:04:04,400
Yeah.
He looked at Elizabeth life and

1037
01:04:04,400 --> 01:04:07,200
if there was somebody in her
Circle who was a little bit weak

1038
01:04:07,200 --> 01:04:11,500
or needy, he filled that void
for that person, like kind of

1039
01:04:11,500 --> 01:04:15,800
making himself someone that you
couldn't untangle from

1040
01:04:15,800 --> 01:04:23,400
Elizabeth's, friends and family.
Elizabeth is like, since we're

1041
01:04:23,400 --> 01:04:27,700
getting married, we should move
to a better place and marks like

1042
01:04:27,700 --> 01:04:31,200
that makes sense.
So they move out of Adelaide.

1043
01:04:31,300 --> 01:04:35,200
John is livid.
He spent hours ranting and

1044
01:04:35,200 --> 01:04:38,400
raving to people, they all hung
out in Suzanne's house now

1045
01:04:38,400 --> 01:04:43,800
because they had no other house
to hang out in the problem was

1046
01:04:43,800 --> 01:04:46,600
with hanging out at Suzanne's
house was that like their

1047
01:04:46,600 --> 01:04:50,800
relationship had never been more
than stop by have sex you leave.

1048
01:04:51,300 --> 01:04:54,600
So now he was like there all the
time and it created, this weird

1049
01:04:54,600 --> 01:04:57,900
tension in the relationship.
Now what comes next?

1050
01:04:57,900 --> 01:05:00,400
We have two different stories.
There's a version that they

1051
01:05:00,400 --> 01:05:03,700
decided on in court and one that
is believed by people who live

1052
01:05:03,700 --> 01:05:04,400
there.
At the time.

1053
01:05:04,900 --> 01:05:07,700
The Salisbury rumor version is
that John and Susan had a big

1054
01:05:07,700 --> 01:05:09,400
fight.
She threatened to turn him into

1055
01:05:09,400 --> 01:05:13,600
the police for killing Ray and
he killed her in the court

1056
01:05:13,600 --> 01:05:15,400
version.
John stopped by walked in and

1057
01:05:15,400 --> 01:05:17,100
Suzanne was already dead in her
bedroom.

1058
01:05:17,100 --> 01:05:20,400
She was an older lady died.
From natural causes whatever

1059
01:05:20,400 --> 01:05:24,000
happened.
The following was the same, John

1060
01:05:24,000 --> 01:05:26,500
was like, no one needs to know
that Suzanne.

1061
01:05:26,700 --> 01:05:28,800
Has dead.
She's still getting raised

1062
01:05:28,800 --> 01:05:30,500
checks.
She's getting her own benefits

1063
01:05:30,500 --> 01:05:35,100
Jack because she's were tired,
and I want all that money.

1064
01:05:35,700 --> 01:05:41,300
So, he dismembered Susan in
November of 1986 wrapped her in

1065
01:05:41,300 --> 01:05:45,000
a plastic bags and waited until
night opened up.

1066
01:05:45,000 --> 01:05:47,300
Raise grave dropped Suzanne
inside.

1067
01:05:47,400 --> 01:05:50,700
Oh my God.
Suzanne's rent was being paid

1068
01:05:50,700 --> 01:05:53,800
for by the government.
She had fought with her family,

1069
01:05:53,800 --> 01:05:55,200
so much.
Nobody liked her.

1070
01:05:55,700 --> 01:05:57,800
John just had to make sure She
picked up her mail and no one

1071
01:05:57,800 --> 01:06:00,200
asked questions.
He gained access to her

1072
01:06:00,200 --> 01:06:03,000
accounts, through her papers at
home, and it was more than

1073
01:06:03,100 --> 01:06:06,000
enough money for his family to
live on.

1074
01:06:06,000 --> 01:06:10,000
And for him to spend frivolously
with his friends, who only issue

1075
01:06:10,000 --> 01:06:12,500
was that he didn't want the
money to go directly to him.

1076
01:06:14,000 --> 01:06:17,300
So he decided that Mark Aiden
would be a good Patsy for that.

1077
01:06:19,200 --> 01:06:22,900
He was like listen you don't
have to do anything else, just

1078
01:06:22,900 --> 01:06:25,500
let the money come through and
then help me with some

1079
01:06:25,500 --> 01:06:33,300
purchases.
So they bought a couple of

1080
01:06:33,300 --> 01:06:37,000
properties.
They would buy things that the

1081
01:06:37,000 --> 01:06:40,000
group needed some money.
Went back to John so that he

1082
01:06:40,000 --> 01:06:42,400
could pay, you know, the
mortgage.

1083
01:06:42,600 --> 01:06:44,200
This is where snow Town comes
in.

1084
01:06:44,600 --> 01:06:47,600
Now, still town was a very small
agricultural community.

1085
01:06:47,800 --> 01:06:50,100
That wasn't doing the best
financially at the time and you

1086
01:06:50,100 --> 01:06:53,900
still get enough, it's better
now than it was 20 years ago at

1087
01:06:53,900 --> 01:06:55,300
the time.
It was becoming a bit of a ghost

1088
01:06:55,300 --> 01:06:56,800
town.
And there were so few people

1089
01:06:56,800 --> 01:07:00,100
there that the bank on Main
Street had closed and the locals

1090
01:07:00,100 --> 01:07:02,900
had to travel miles to either
the city of kadena or Crystal

1091
01:07:02,900 --> 01:07:06,100
Brooks, do their banking when
Mark and John John saw it

1092
01:07:06,100 --> 01:07:08,500
though.
They were like, this is a good

1093
01:07:08,500 --> 01:07:11,300
building.
The rent was way too high for a

1094
01:07:11,300 --> 01:07:14,400
town, this small, which is why I
had probably closed, but what,

1095
01:07:14,400 --> 01:07:18,500
the money from Ryan Suzanne this
more than covered it inside.

1096
01:07:18,500 --> 01:07:21,700
It was like, the 80s exploded
inside this building, but John

1097
01:07:21,700 --> 01:07:23,200
didn't really need it for
upstairs.

1098
01:07:24,600 --> 01:07:29,600
He wanted it for the vaults.
A place where he was going to be

1099
01:07:29,600 --> 01:07:34,000
able to kill and also dispose of
remains because in John's brain.

1100
01:07:36,300 --> 01:07:39,900
If there was nobody there was no
murder.

1101
01:07:40,200 --> 01:07:45,400
I knew it is so terrible.
So he buys all these different

1102
01:07:45,400 --> 01:07:48,200
acids from different chemical
companies across the country, he

1103
01:07:48,200 --> 01:07:50,800
gets a different member of his
group to do the purchases, they

1104
01:07:50,800 --> 01:07:53,700
bring it to the Vault.
He brings in these giant plastic

1105
01:07:53,700 --> 01:07:58,500
barrels and he pours the acids,
the stuff in them and seal them.

1106
01:07:58,600 --> 01:08:00,400
There were easily a dozen
barrels.

1107
01:08:00,400 --> 01:08:02,800
Would they were so big that?
He would be able to put more

1108
01:08:02,800 --> 01:08:06,800
than one person in them?
John was actually so happy with

1109
01:08:06,800 --> 01:08:08,400
this plan that he made a
mistake.

1110
01:08:09,600 --> 01:08:12,800
One day when he was cashing the
checks, he actually put his own

1111
01:08:12,800 --> 01:08:15,300
name on the back of Suzanne's
check and cash it in Murray

1112
01:08:15,300 --> 01:08:18,500
Bridge, instead of Adelaide, the
police came to his house and

1113
01:08:18,500 --> 01:08:21,000
John was like, why are there
cops here?

1114
01:08:21,000 --> 01:08:23,600
He's about to just like haul off
and start murdering them.

1115
01:08:23,800 --> 01:08:25,700
And then he like, calm himself
down.

1116
01:08:25,700 --> 01:08:27,500
He told the police.
He's been Francis, whose and for

1117
01:08:27,500 --> 01:08:30,399
many years, he helped her with
her finances because she's an

1118
01:08:30,407 --> 01:08:32,800
old lady.
The police didn't check

1119
01:08:32,800 --> 01:08:36,700
Suzanne's house, they didn't ask
her if she was getting the money

1120
01:08:36,700 --> 01:08:40,300
that he was cashing for her.
The police were Like this

1121
01:08:40,300 --> 01:08:42,000
complaint didn't come from
Suzanne.

1122
01:08:42,000 --> 01:08:44,000
So obviously, she's fine with
it.

1123
01:08:44,399 --> 01:08:46,500
What the hell?
What?

1124
01:08:47,200 --> 01:08:49,399
I'm hold on.
I'm surprised even cast.

1125
01:08:49,399 --> 01:08:52,600
A check when he signed it.
She has to sign it.

1126
01:08:52,600 --> 01:08:56,000
The hell.
Is that just different

1127
01:08:56,200 --> 01:08:57,700
obviously, I'm smarter than
y'all.

1128
01:08:59,100 --> 01:09:01,700
Yeah, I think they didn't catch
that one and they like just

1129
01:09:01,700 --> 01:09:03,700
went.
Hey, why is your name on the

1130
01:09:03,707 --> 01:09:05,600
check?
Okay.

1131
01:09:08,000 --> 01:09:11,899
So remember that like list of
people that he said were pedos

1132
01:09:12,300 --> 01:09:16,000
that came to this house to but
it got its own room with a board

1133
01:09:16,000 --> 01:09:18,600
and names and strings from
people to people and

1134
01:09:18,600 --> 01:09:21,500
connections.
Oh God no he literally made like

1135
01:09:21,500 --> 01:09:25,399
a police board but it was like a
pedophile board know where they

1136
01:09:25,399 --> 01:09:27,000
hang out and all this stuff.
Yep.

1137
01:09:27,000 --> 01:09:29,399
God.
He also harassed these people a

1138
01:09:29,399 --> 01:09:32,600
lot more he would call them in
the middle of the night just

1139
01:09:32,600 --> 01:09:35,500
like scream that they were
pedophiles and then he would

1140
01:09:35,500 --> 01:09:39,000
take Jamie and Robert they break
into the These peoples houses

1141
01:09:39,300 --> 01:09:42,600
and then like vandalize them,
but the victims have reported it

1142
01:09:42,600 --> 01:09:45,200
because they were scared.
And like, once the word

1143
01:09:45,200 --> 01:09:48,600
pedophile is spray-painted
across your house for the

1144
01:09:48,600 --> 01:09:52,200
neighborhood to see that's all
the community needs to know,

1145
01:09:52,600 --> 01:09:54,700
right?
That, there's an accusation.

1146
01:09:56,100 --> 01:09:59,000
So John asked Barry, if there
are any rumors and the gay

1147
01:09:59,000 --> 01:10:01,700
community is there anyone, you
know, doing something they

1148
01:10:01,700 --> 01:10:05,200
shouldn't.
So Barry always had information

1149
01:10:05,200 --> 01:10:07,800
but Barry was specifically
giving him names of people who

1150
01:10:07,800 --> 01:10:12,200
made him mad.
So, John fixated on Michelle

1151
01:10:12,200 --> 01:10:15,600
Gartner born Michael.
Michelle was 19 and she actually

1152
01:10:15,600 --> 01:10:20,500
dressed and behaved.
Like not like Berry like

1153
01:10:20,500 --> 01:10:22,800
Michelle was living as like a
young woman.

1154
01:10:27,000 --> 01:10:30,100
Barry was jealous of her.
He viewed Michelle, as like a

1155
01:10:30,108 --> 01:10:33,900
younger better-looking version
of himself, and it's wild

1156
01:10:33,900 --> 01:10:37,500
because Barry's idea of like, he
was like, Michelle's gonna see

1157
01:10:37,500 --> 01:10:40,700
robber and they're gonna get
together, and it was totally

1158
01:10:40,700 --> 01:10:44,100
misplaced jealousy.
John, had trained, Robert and

1159
01:10:44,100 --> 01:10:47,100
Jamie to look at people like
Michelle as the same as their

1160
01:10:47,100 --> 01:10:51,600
prior abusers, Michelle got
kicked out of her family's home.

1161
01:10:52,000 --> 01:10:55,000
After coming out, she rented, a
room from a woman who treat her

1162
01:10:55,000 --> 01:10:59,100
better than her own family.
Um, John learned that many of

1163
01:10:59,100 --> 01:11:03,000
the prior tenants just
disappeared in the night and so

1164
01:11:03,000 --> 01:11:05,500
they were like if Michelle
disappears.

1165
01:11:05,600 --> 01:11:11,000
Maybe the landlady will assume
the same thing, but then they

1166
01:11:11,800 --> 01:11:14,800
realize that Michelle was
getting benefit payments and

1167
01:11:14,800 --> 01:11:18,800
that sealed the deal that was
like oh there we go, there's our

1168
01:11:18,800 --> 01:11:20,600
catch.
Okay, hmm.

1169
01:11:20,900 --> 01:11:24,400
I mean, I just want to say well
if she's being treated like

1170
01:11:24,400 --> 01:11:26,900
really well Buzz about the
person that you live I'm with

1171
01:11:26,900 --> 01:11:29,200
why would he think that she
would just run away?

1172
01:11:29,400 --> 01:11:32,600
That's just come to bite him in
the butt.

1173
01:11:32,600 --> 01:11:34,200
You're all right.
Okay.

1174
01:11:34,200 --> 01:11:36,100
I was about to say because on
their own or part, it just

1175
01:11:36,100 --> 01:11:40,000
doesn't sound like it's smart.
So they abduct Michelle

1176
01:11:40,000 --> 01:11:44,300
September of 1997, Robert fueled
by hatred for Barry.

1177
01:11:44,300 --> 01:11:47,800
Actually took control of this
one Roberts, like he took

1178
01:11:47,800 --> 01:11:50,400
advantage of me when I was 13,
groom me.

1179
01:11:50,400 --> 01:11:54,300
And while I can't undo those
seven years, I can stop people

1180
01:11:54,300 --> 01:11:57,000
like them from doing the same
thing to another Child.

1181
01:11:57,100 --> 01:12:00,100
They stole as much of Michelle
stuff as they could to make it

1182
01:12:00,100 --> 01:12:02,700
look like she ran out in the
middle of the night and took her

1183
01:12:02,700 --> 01:12:07,000
to snow town where they tortured
her worse, than any of the

1184
01:12:07,000 --> 01:12:14,200
others, they added electrocution
via a car battery, and they

1185
01:12:14,200 --> 01:12:18,800
would do this for about an hour.
I know that it's about an hour

1186
01:12:19,100 --> 01:12:22,900
because they would play a live
album called Throwing Copper,

1187
01:12:22,900 --> 01:12:28,000
which is about an hour long.
After a while John choked her to

1188
01:12:28,000 --> 01:12:31,100
death, and then they pushed her
down into the acid Barrel to

1189
01:12:31,100 --> 01:12:35,300
attempt to dissolve her.
Now, they kept Michelle's ID, so

1190
01:12:35,300 --> 01:12:37,200
they could try and get the
checks and cash them.

1191
01:12:37,200 --> 01:12:39,800
And they discovered that they
didn't have Michelle's wallet,

1192
01:12:40,500 --> 01:12:42,000
which was still back in the
room.

1193
01:12:42,500 --> 01:12:45,100
Now, the problem was, it's
already the next day, so

1194
01:12:45,100 --> 01:12:50,200
Michelle, her landlord checked
on her and was just like, this

1195
01:12:50,200 --> 01:12:52,300
doesn't seem right?
In fact, she goes to the police

1196
01:12:52,300 --> 01:12:54,000
and reports that her ten of his
missing.

1197
01:12:54,500 --> 01:12:59,000
The Police are like she probably
just left the landlady reached

1198
01:12:59,000 --> 01:13:02,400
out to Michelle's friends and no
one had anything to say but they

1199
01:13:02,400 --> 01:13:06,000
thought she was a little bit too
involved, two days.

1200
01:13:06,000 --> 01:13:08,900
After this appearance, John
comes back and sees that

1201
01:13:08,900 --> 01:13:11,900
Michelle's room is cleaned up.
That means the landlady probably

1202
01:13:11,900 --> 01:13:15,500
has the wallet with her and
John's like a have to get to it.

1203
01:13:15,600 --> 01:13:18,700
He didn't know anyone who could
pass for like a 19 year old girl

1204
01:13:19,000 --> 01:13:22,400
and making direct contact with
the already suspicious landlady,

1205
01:13:22,400 --> 01:13:24,000
was definitely not.
Okay.

1206
01:13:24,400 --> 01:13:31,600
So, He convinces.
Mark's sister in law, her son

1207
01:13:31,600 --> 01:13:36,300
Fred.
To call the landlady and explain

1208
01:13:36,300 --> 01:13:39,800
that Michelle had to move
because of her family, but she

1209
01:13:39,800 --> 01:13:45,200
was safe down a new city, but
she needs her wallet so that she

1210
01:13:45,200 --> 01:13:48,400
can get her benefit checks, the
landlady's.

1211
01:13:48,400 --> 01:13:51,300
Like, I don't believe it and
she's like a shell will contact

1212
01:13:51,300 --> 01:13:55,100
me directly.
If she wants it back, they have

1213
01:13:55,100 --> 01:13:59,000
fried make these calls all week
long and finally, the landlady

1214
01:13:59,000 --> 01:14:02,700
agrees to a meet-up, but John's
like, mmm.

1215
01:14:03,300 --> 01:14:08,700
We're not going and he was right
to be suspicious, because she

1216
01:14:08,700 --> 01:14:11,000
actually brought the police with
her to the Meetup site.

1217
01:14:11,200 --> 01:14:13,800
They abandoned the wallet and
the benefits cam.

1218
01:14:17,300 --> 01:14:19,700
What happens next though is that
when Barry realizes that the

1219
01:14:19,708 --> 01:14:24,500
last person that he told John
was a terrible person is now

1220
01:14:24,500 --> 01:14:28,800
gone.
He's like oh no I'm in danger.

1221
01:14:30,700 --> 01:14:34,200
Barry is deeply lonely and he's
actually quite scared and

1222
01:14:34,200 --> 01:14:37,100
pushing 50.
So obviously the right thing to

1223
01:14:37,100 --> 01:14:41,300
do is to reach out to a local 18
year old Thomas travillian

1224
01:14:43,100 --> 01:14:47,000
Thomas was very mentally ill and
he was prone to walking the

1225
01:14:47,000 --> 01:14:49,200
neighborhood in full combat
fatigues.

1226
01:14:50,200 --> 01:14:53,200
He had been deemed unfit for
military service and this had

1227
01:14:53,200 --> 01:14:57,200
been like his childhood dream
and so once he couldn't do it,

1228
01:14:57,200 --> 01:15:00,900
it kind of became an obsession.
He would just like train

1229
01:15:00,900 --> 01:15:04,100
constantly and like walk around
and fatigues.

1230
01:15:06,300 --> 01:15:11,200
One day, December 1977 Berry
invites Thomas to have a drink

1231
01:15:11,200 --> 01:15:12,700
in the back garden and the to
do.

1232
01:15:12,800 --> 01:15:17,200
Hit it off Thomas had been
training for quite some time.

1233
01:15:17,200 --> 01:15:21,000
So he was young and fit which
obviously Barry had a thing for

1234
01:15:21,500 --> 01:15:24,800
and as for Thomas someone in the
neighborhood, treated him with

1235
01:15:24,800 --> 01:15:26,400
respect and like he was a
person.

1236
01:15:27,700 --> 01:15:30,500
It wasn't romantic at first but
eventually Thomas moved in with

1237
01:15:30,500 --> 01:15:33,000
him Barry.
Felt safe enough to talk about

1238
01:15:33,000 --> 01:15:40,800
the crew and all the rumors with
John and Things began to

1239
01:15:40,800 --> 01:15:44,200
circulate from North Salisbury
and they were directly from the

1240
01:15:44,200 --> 01:15:48,200
mouth of berry Lane.
It was enough to stop John from

1241
01:15:48,200 --> 01:15:51,600
choosing a different victim and
to paint a Target on bearing.

1242
01:15:52,100 --> 01:15:57,900
Of course, yes.
John had thought that killing

1243
01:15:57,900 --> 01:16:01,200
Clinton in front of Barry would
get him to shut up, but

1244
01:16:01,200 --> 01:16:05,700
obviously, he had not learned.
So, it's about a month later

1245
01:16:05,700 --> 01:16:10,900
after the last murder, October,
97, Robert and John.

1246
01:16:10,900 --> 01:16:13,300
Shut up on Barry Stewart.
Step with the six-pack.

1247
01:16:13,600 --> 01:16:16,300
He's willing to chat asking
about all the rumors.

1248
01:16:17,200 --> 01:16:20,100
What Barry didn't know was that
John had already gotten to

1249
01:16:20,100 --> 01:16:26,000
Thomas and told him about how
Barry had groomed, Robert So,

1250
01:16:26,300 --> 01:16:29,200
Barry sitting in the room not
realizing that all three people

1251
01:16:29,200 --> 01:16:31,500
are and on about he's about to
die.

1252
01:16:32,600 --> 01:16:34,600
Thomas actually is the one to
restrain him.

1253
01:16:34,900 --> 01:16:37,700
They dragged Barry to the house
phone make him call.

1254
01:16:37,700 --> 01:16:40,100
His mother tell her that he's
moving to Queensland.

1255
01:16:40,300 --> 01:16:42,400
He doesn't want anything to do
with her anymore.

1256
01:16:42,700 --> 01:16:46,900
That he didn't forgive her for
how she didn't talk to him years

1257
01:16:46,900 --> 01:16:49,300
ago for being gay.
This is the last time we'll ever

1258
01:16:49,300 --> 01:16:53,200
speak Barry's mom actually told
him that she loved him and then

1259
01:16:53,200 --> 01:16:58,800
Robert hung up the call.
They did a number on Gary.

1260
01:16:58,800 --> 01:17:03,100
They gagged him crushed all of
his toes while he was alive,

1261
01:17:03,700 --> 01:17:04,900
telling him that he was a
pedophile.

1262
01:17:04,900 --> 01:17:08,300
The, entire time, Robert did the
majority of this torture.

1263
01:17:10,400 --> 01:17:13,300
Then the bits of berry that were
left were wrapped in plastic

1264
01:17:13,300 --> 01:17:16,600
putting Barry's car, and they
dropped Thomas off at his

1265
01:17:16,600 --> 01:17:17,700
apartment.
Helped him move.

1266
01:17:17,700 --> 01:17:20,700
All of his things back in and
get them settled, then back at

1267
01:17:20,700 --> 01:17:23,700
the bank, fallen snow town they
quickly throw Barry in the band

1268
01:17:23,700 --> 01:17:26,800
with Michelle.
This is great.

1269
01:17:26,900 --> 01:17:29,700
Now they have Barry's house has
a base of operations and they

1270
01:17:29,700 --> 01:17:31,800
could sell all the crap didn't
like and clean out his bank

1271
01:17:31,800 --> 01:17:36,800
account too.
But now we have another problem.

1272
01:17:37,300 --> 01:17:41,000
The Australian Department of
Social Services contacts.

1273
01:17:41,000 --> 01:17:45,800
Susan via letter and says, we
need you to tell us that John is

1274
01:17:45,800 --> 01:17:49,600
allowed to cash your checks.
It had taken them a year to

1275
01:17:49,600 --> 01:17:51,200
realize that something was
wrong.

1276
01:17:52,400 --> 01:17:55,300
On top of that Thomas travillian
is trying to break under the

1277
01:17:55,300 --> 01:17:57,300
pressure.
This is a young man with a

1278
01:17:57,308 --> 01:18:00,500
lifetime of mental illness is
not the person you want to be

1279
01:18:00,500 --> 01:18:02,900
holding the secret that you
helped kill his boyfriend.

1280
01:18:04,200 --> 01:18:10,400
So John and lists Jody Elliot
marks Elizabeth sister, they're

1281
01:18:10,400 --> 01:18:12,100
not married.
So she's Elizabeth Hayden.

1282
01:18:12,100 --> 01:18:17,300
Now, the woman who hates John.
She's like, brings in the sister

1283
01:18:17,300 --> 01:18:20,400
to help to truly get her under
his spell.

1284
01:18:20,400 --> 01:18:22,900
He starts another weird
relationship with her.

1285
01:18:23,200 --> 01:18:25,800
I wouldn't call an affair
because John said that he cared,

1286
01:18:25,900 --> 01:18:29,600
absolutely nothing for her and
that he had to force himself to

1287
01:18:29,600 --> 01:18:33,300
have sex with her, but that it
did make Joy.

1288
01:18:33,600 --> 01:18:36,200
Jody loyal to him because she
believed there was a real

1289
01:18:36,200 --> 01:18:38,400
relationship.
That's according to him.

1290
01:18:38,600 --> 01:18:40,900
Don't quote me on whether Jodi
believe that it was a real

1291
01:18:40,900 --> 01:18:43,300
relationship or maybe she was
just you know having a little

1292
01:18:43,300 --> 01:18:47,700
fun either way though he asked
you to call the office and

1293
01:18:47,700 --> 01:18:51,000
impersonate Suzanne, he did not
like the fact that he had to

1294
01:18:51,000 --> 01:18:55,800
hand this job to somebody else.
But Jody did it and that was all

1295
01:18:55,800 --> 01:18:59,700
they needed.
And like they had all her

1296
01:18:59,700 --> 01:19:02,500
paperwork so they she could
answer all the questions, right?

1297
01:19:02,500 --> 01:19:04,600
Okay.
Now John decides, he needs to

1298
01:19:04,600 --> 01:19:06,800
tie up the Loose Ends of this
Thomas trillion.

1299
01:19:07,300 --> 01:19:12,000
So in November 5th 1997 he and
Robert go to talk Thomas had

1300
01:19:12,000 --> 01:19:15,000
been a month since the murder
and he was a wreck.

1301
01:19:15,300 --> 01:19:18,100
He was Nam confused.
Could barely speak almost

1302
01:19:18,100 --> 01:19:23,800
catatonic.
John pretty much just went come

1303
01:19:23,800 --> 01:19:27,100
come with me in my car and I
drove out past Adelaide into the

1304
01:19:27,108 --> 01:19:32,500
woods of curs Brooke set up a
noose and Stage Thomas's

1305
01:19:32,500 --> 01:19:35,100
suicide.
He was found later that day by a

1306
01:19:35,100 --> 01:19:40,300
passing hitchhiker.
They only learned that Thomas is

1307
01:19:40,300 --> 01:19:43,800
one of John's victims later,
because John kept newspaper

1308
01:19:43,800 --> 01:19:50,200
clippings of all his murders.
All of the members of Jon's crew

1309
01:19:50,200 --> 01:19:52,000
were dealing with Incredible
demons.

1310
01:19:52,000 --> 01:19:55,700
And John was using these murders
to deal with his hurt, and it

1311
01:19:55,708 --> 01:19:57,500
appeared that Robert was on
board with him.

1312
01:19:59,400 --> 01:20:04,700
Jamie, this is this now stepson
sort of was on board.

1313
01:20:04,900 --> 01:20:07,800
He'd never been there for a
murder and he definitely agreed.

1314
01:20:07,800 --> 01:20:11,800
That pedo should die.
But Jamie was now in his late

1315
01:20:11,800 --> 01:20:18,600
teens and hardcore doing heroin.
To just kind of make it through

1316
01:20:18,600 --> 01:20:23,400
the day and deal with the demons
John was not, okay, with drug

1317
01:20:23,400 --> 01:20:25,400
addicts.
He believed that losing control

1318
01:20:25,400 --> 01:20:27,100
of yourself, was the worst thing
you could do.

1319
01:20:27,500 --> 01:20:30,300
So on top of that, Jamie doing
drugs meant that, he had a loose

1320
01:20:30,300 --> 01:20:34,900
end and unreliable member of the
team Jamie knew about the things

1321
01:20:34,900 --> 01:20:38,400
that happened and when addicts
get caught they snatch on people

1322
01:20:38,900 --> 01:20:41,500
true, they start dear dude that
looks get loose.

1323
01:20:42,700 --> 01:20:46,300
So John went to get rid of the
heroin and Jamie's life and he

1324
01:20:46,300 --> 01:20:50,000
discovered that Jamie like to do
heroin with one of his friends

1325
01:20:50,000 --> 01:20:52,800
gavin.porter and Gavin need a
place to stay.

1326
01:20:53,500 --> 01:20:57,600
So John was like, absolutely.
You can come stay here with us.

1327
01:20:58,200 --> 01:21:01,400
His idea was he can he's Jamie
off the drugs and back into the

1328
01:21:01,400 --> 01:21:04,200
boy.
He was before he Grandin bared,

1329
01:21:04,200 --> 01:21:07,100
it for, as long as he could
until he came one day at home.

1330
01:21:07,100 --> 01:21:10,600
One day, sat down on the sofa
and got stuck by a used needle.

1331
01:21:11,300 --> 01:21:16,100
That was it.
He called Robert and he came

1332
01:21:16,100 --> 01:21:17,500
over.
They open the back door of

1333
01:21:17,500 --> 01:21:20,000
Gavin's car, choked him with a
tire iron.

1334
01:21:22,700 --> 01:21:26,800
To the point where it almost
broke and almost like broke

1335
01:21:26,800 --> 01:21:30,500
Gavin snack.
Yeah Robert actually brought one

1336
01:21:30,500 --> 01:21:33,800
of the barrels.
They put Gavin in along with a

1337
01:21:33,808 --> 01:21:37,000
tire iron drove just no town.
By the time they get the barrel

1338
01:21:37,000 --> 01:21:40,200
inside, John had pretty much
like he'd pulled so hard, he had

1339
01:21:40,200 --> 01:21:43,200
pulled a muscle in his arm and
shoulder so he had to actually

1340
01:21:43,200 --> 01:21:46,300
have Robert do the chemical
mixing robber.

1341
01:21:46,300 --> 01:21:50,100
Dropped him off at home and he
walked in to a Jamie waiting for

1342
01:21:50,100 --> 01:21:52,600
him.
Jamie had questions.

1343
01:21:52,600 --> 01:21:54,300
Where's Gavin?
Why is this car here?

1344
01:21:55,400 --> 01:21:57,500
John kind of pushed all the
questions off and he's just like

1345
01:21:57,500 --> 01:22:01,200
we'll talk about it tomorrow,
but Jamie took off that night on

1346
01:22:01,200 --> 01:22:03,900
a bender when Jamie got home
about three days later.

1347
01:22:03,900 --> 01:22:06,900
Gavin's car was gone.
Sold off the to at a very

1348
01:22:06,900 --> 01:22:09,700
peculiar conversation where
Jamie's like, it's not that I

1349
01:22:09,700 --> 01:22:12,900
was mad at you.
I was mad that my friend is dead

1350
01:22:13,200 --> 01:22:16,500
and then John goes on, like a
weird rant about drug use.

1351
01:22:18,800 --> 01:22:24,000
Ultimately Jamie was only like
19 and this was the only guy

1352
01:22:24,000 --> 01:22:25,600
who'd been a decent father to
him.

1353
01:22:25,700 --> 01:22:30,700
He let it go.
And almost ironic moment, Jamie

1354
01:22:30,700 --> 01:22:35,600
stepbrother reached out to
Elizabeth for a place to stay

1355
01:22:35,900 --> 01:22:41,300
like almost at the same time.
Because once Jamie had moved

1356
01:22:41,300 --> 01:22:45,300
away, dad had shifted his, a
bruise abuse from one son to the

1357
01:22:45,300 --> 01:22:50,200
other, okay, yeah.
Jamie had never fully told John

1358
01:22:50,200 --> 01:22:53,600
or his mom about the story, but
over the last five years, John

1359
01:22:53,600 --> 01:22:56,600
had kind of pieced it together,
that Jamie stepped out, has

1360
01:22:56,600 --> 01:22:59,800
started sexually abusing him,
and then brought on his son to

1361
01:22:59,800 --> 01:23:02,900
do it.
That boy was Troy's out, two

1362
01:23:02,900 --> 01:23:06,200
years older than Jamie and he
had molested his brother at his

1363
01:23:06,200 --> 01:23:10,400
dad's request.
When Elizabeth brought it up,

1364
01:23:10,400 --> 01:23:14,200
Jamie was like, in raged?
How dare you even think that

1365
01:23:14,200 --> 01:23:15,800
it'd be okay to bring this guy
here?

1366
01:23:16,100 --> 01:23:18,700
And he's like throwing stuff and
freaking out.

1367
01:23:18,700 --> 01:23:21,000
John's like this is your chance
to get him back.

1368
01:23:23,500 --> 01:23:26,800
Now Josh Jamie had gone along
with some of the other killings

1369
01:23:26,800 --> 01:23:29,100
because he believed in the
mission of ridding pedophiles

1370
01:23:29,100 --> 01:23:35,300
from the world.
But this one was personal Trail.

1371
01:23:35,300 --> 01:23:39,300
I arrived late one night in
August of 1988, they didn't even

1372
01:23:39,300 --> 01:23:42,900
let Troy unpack before he was
murdered.

1373
01:23:44,200 --> 01:23:48,900
Like he literally just laid in
bed and was like, who I'm tired.

1374
01:23:48,900 --> 01:23:53,800
I'll come back tomorrow and that
first night he woke up to Jon.

1375
01:23:53,800 --> 01:23:57,600
Jamie Robert and Mark standing
over him with the live album,

1376
01:23:57,600 --> 01:23:59,600
Throwing Copper playing in the
background.

1377
01:23:59,600 --> 01:24:03,700
Oh my God.
Mark and Robert secured Troy and

1378
01:24:03,700 --> 01:24:08,100
Jamie took the lead on torture.
First just beating him with his

1379
01:24:08,100 --> 01:24:10,400
fist.
Then he used to John's tools

1380
01:24:10,400 --> 01:24:14,600
this went on for hours.
They muffled his screams of the

1381
01:24:14,600 --> 01:24:17,700
music and a pillow if Elizabeth
heard anything, she sure.

1382
01:24:17,700 --> 01:24:21,900
Didn't come looking.
Even once Troy was Dad, it

1383
01:24:21,900 --> 01:24:24,700
wasn't enough for Jamie.
So John was like okay, cut them

1384
01:24:24,700 --> 01:24:27,800
up.
Then they wrapped him up in a

1385
01:24:27,808 --> 01:24:29,600
tarp and took him back to snow
town.

1386
01:24:30,900 --> 01:24:34,500
Jamie didn't quit heroin but
that night was definitely like

1387
01:24:34,900 --> 01:24:38,800
bonding for him and John he was
just like will be loyal to the

1388
01:24:38,800 --> 01:24:41,700
end.
The rest of the crew was ready

1389
01:24:41,700 --> 01:24:48,400
to except for Mark.
Elizabeth Hayden was still kind

1390
01:24:48,400 --> 01:24:51,400
of hammering at her husband.
She wasn't asking questions

1391
01:24:51,400 --> 01:24:54,900
really so much.
It's just like You shouldn't

1392
01:24:54,900 --> 01:24:56,700
like hang out with him that
much.

1393
01:24:57,500 --> 01:25:03,600
He seems like a bad influence.
Yeah, well so Mark goes to John

1394
01:25:03,600 --> 01:25:05,900
and us like how do I deal with
the fact that she keeps like

1395
01:25:05,900 --> 01:25:09,100
nagging me and John's like I
mean we could kill her if you

1396
01:25:09,100 --> 01:25:12,800
want.
Oh my God, Mark's like nah, I

1397
01:25:12,808 --> 01:25:18,300
don't want you to do that.
And so instead they decide that

1398
01:25:18,300 --> 01:25:22,800
if they kill Fred Brooks, who is
now 20 years old, this will keep

1399
01:25:22,800 --> 01:25:25,300
the women in line.
Jodi and Elizabeth.

1400
01:25:25,800 --> 01:25:29,400
This happens in September of
1998, John and Robert did the

1401
01:25:29,400 --> 01:25:31,500
Dirty Work.
They simply choked him.

1402
01:25:31,500 --> 01:25:34,400
They did not torture him.
He did not deserve to be

1403
01:25:34,400 --> 01:25:36,300
tortured because he was not a
pedophile.

1404
01:25:36,800 --> 01:25:39,000
They took him this note and put
them in a barrel.

1405
01:25:41,900 --> 01:25:44,500
It did do one thing, Elizabeth
Hayden and Jodi.

1406
01:25:44,500 --> 01:25:46,600
Stop speaking to John.
After this.

1407
01:25:46,900 --> 01:25:50,900
They knew that he was the one
who had taken Pride, Jodi was

1408
01:25:50,900 --> 01:25:53,700
too scared to talk about what
he'd done and Elizabeth was

1409
01:25:53,700 --> 01:26:00,000
Furious.
Their next victim was Gary,

1410
01:26:00,000 --> 01:26:09,300
O'Dwyer.
Jamie was the Jimmy is 19 now

1411
01:26:09,600 --> 01:26:13,500
and he was kind of debate.
Gary was 29 years old and a

1412
01:26:13,508 --> 01:26:16,700
loner, he'd been a traffic
accident and I was collecting

1413
01:26:16,700 --> 01:26:19,500
benefits.
He had no friends, no family and

1414
01:26:19,500 --> 01:26:22,500
he was very much oblivious to
the fact that this random 19

1415
01:26:22,500 --> 01:26:26,300
year old was suddenly his friend
over the course of about a

1416
01:26:26,308 --> 01:26:29,100
month.
Jamie came by every day, asking

1417
01:26:29,100 --> 01:26:32,400
really personal questions, and
then he just stopped and a

1418
01:26:32,407 --> 01:26:36,100
couple nights later in October
of 98 the crew walks in, they

1419
01:26:36,100 --> 01:26:40,200
knew Gary wasn't a pedophile, he
wasn't even a Neo-Nazi Gary died

1420
01:26:40,200 --> 01:26:44,600
because John need more money.
The hello sir.

1421
01:26:44,600 --> 01:26:48,800
Just come out for money now, the
torture change with Gary, John

1422
01:26:48,800 --> 01:26:51,400
thought their victims were
becoming unconscious to quickly,

1423
01:26:51,800 --> 01:26:54,500
so it was less beatings.
More electrical currents.

1424
01:26:54,500 --> 01:26:57,300
They actually use something
called a very act Transformer to

1425
01:26:57,300 --> 01:27:00,600
deliver the current.
Now, I'm imagining that's worse.

1426
01:27:00,700 --> 01:27:03,500
I don't know a lot about
Transformers, and he's every why

1427
01:27:03,500 --> 01:27:07,100
but sounds terrible.
Everyone took a turn and then

1428
01:27:07,100 --> 01:27:09,300
they killed him.
Put him in a barrel and deposit

1429
01:27:09,300 --> 01:27:13,100
him into town.
With Gary's death, everyone's

1430
01:27:13,100 --> 01:27:15,200
making enough money that they
didn't need regular jobs.

1431
01:27:16,600 --> 01:27:19,000
It's super comfortable.
The crews really happy with it.

1432
01:27:19,000 --> 01:27:21,200
The only person who's not happy
is Elizabeth Hayden.

1433
01:27:23,000 --> 01:27:25,800
Elizabeth might have been scared
of John but she was also still

1434
01:27:25,800 --> 01:27:28,300
whispering in a marketeer that
you need to leave him behind.

1435
01:27:29,000 --> 01:27:30,700
She couldn't really understand
why.

1436
01:27:30,800 --> 01:27:33,400
And so she started going through
their personal finances and

1437
01:27:33,400 --> 01:27:36,700
that's when she realized that
Mark was so embroiled in these

1438
01:27:36,700 --> 01:27:40,800
multiple streams of fraud that
taking John down would take Mark

1439
01:27:40,800 --> 01:27:43,500
to so, but she decided this was
worth it.

1440
01:27:43,500 --> 01:27:45,600
She didn't know that Mark had
committed any of them are

1441
01:27:45,800 --> 01:27:48,900
Murders.
She just thought that he was

1442
01:27:48,900 --> 01:27:50,700
part of the fraud.
And so she's like, fine, he'll

1443
01:27:50,700 --> 01:27:53,300
go to jail for fraud for a
little bit and then he'll be

1444
01:27:53,300 --> 01:27:56,100
free of John who's probably a
killer, right?

1445
01:27:57,700 --> 01:28:00,600
However, she wanted to find just
a little bit more evidence

1446
01:28:00,600 --> 01:28:04,700
before she told the police.
She started asking some really

1447
01:28:04,700 --> 01:28:08,300
specific questions.
God, just for you, get called

1448
01:28:09,600 --> 01:28:12,900
and November of 1998.
She asked about the rental

1449
01:28:12,900 --> 01:28:21,800
property in snow town.
On November 21st, 1998, John

1450
01:28:21,800 --> 01:28:28,000
told Mark to take Jodi somewhere
to movie just out of the house

1451
01:28:28,000 --> 01:28:31,800
for a couple hours.
John decided it was time to take

1452
01:28:31,800 --> 01:28:36,300
care of Elizabeth.
When John arrived, Elizabeth had

1453
01:28:36,300 --> 01:28:39,800
to have known her time us up.
And the worst part about this

1454
01:28:39,800 --> 01:28:42,100
one that actually kind of like
hit my heart a little bit.

1455
01:28:43,300 --> 01:28:48,500
John said that he lied to
Elizabeth and told her that Marc

1456
01:28:48,600 --> 01:28:56,100
told them to kill her.
And that she sobbed as he choked

1457
01:28:56,100 --> 01:28:59,800
her to death.
Wow, she died thinking that the

1458
01:28:59,800 --> 01:29:06,600
man she loved betrayed her.
Robert, Jamie Mark and John

1459
01:29:06,600 --> 01:29:12,900
drove to snow town and silence.
The only occasional sound SOB

1460
01:29:13,000 --> 01:29:16,600
for Mark.
He'd wanted her to stop digging.

1461
01:29:16,600 --> 01:29:18,400
Stop searching, stop fighting
John.

1462
01:29:19,900 --> 01:29:23,400
After this Mark fell apart, he
pulled away from the group.

1463
01:29:23,600 --> 01:29:27,400
He was virtually dead inside.
Both he and Jody walked around

1464
01:29:27,400 --> 01:29:30,100
their house.
Like zombies, Jodi son was dead.

1465
01:29:30,100 --> 01:29:33,200
Now her sister, the police of
course it came around asking

1466
01:29:33,200 --> 01:29:36,100
questions.
Elizabeth Brother Gary and

1467
01:29:36,100 --> 01:29:41,200
Sinclair was really championing
the search to find her Mark.

1468
01:29:41,800 --> 01:29:45,500
Actually found Elizabeth
Research into John and the rest

1469
01:29:45,500 --> 01:29:49,500
of the crew and he ended up
burning it all still.

1470
01:29:49,700 --> 01:29:53,300
Somehow loyal to John, even
while being emotionally,

1471
01:29:53,300 --> 01:29:58,800
destroyed job, completely didn't
understand marks Behavior.

1472
01:29:59,200 --> 01:30:03,600
He's like, why is he so
depressed?

1473
01:30:03,600 --> 01:30:07,400
Why is he not going out anymore?
Why did you cry and randomly?

1474
01:30:07,700 --> 01:30:10,100
Why is he just trailing off as
he's talks?

1475
01:30:10,100 --> 01:30:15,600
Like he forgot, why?
Why indeed John didn't

1476
01:30:15,600 --> 01:30:19,500
understand.
Love I gotta tell you from, from

1477
01:30:19,500 --> 01:30:24,000
reading about him, and from him
do just seems like a sociopath

1478
01:30:24,000 --> 01:30:26,800
like he just didn't have any
real human connection, anybody?

1479
01:30:27,100 --> 01:30:30,000
Oh yeah, as soon as you said, he
would turn his emotions on and

1480
01:30:30,000 --> 01:30:32,800
off and I was like, oh, so she's
a teenager.

1481
01:30:32,900 --> 01:30:37,700
Yeah, look up there you go.
That's yeah, there you go.

1482
01:30:38,100 --> 01:30:42,100
So John is like, you know, it'll
bring mark back, you know, it'd

1483
01:30:42,100 --> 01:30:45,500
be a great thing.
Group murder.

1484
01:30:45,600 --> 01:30:48,800
Let's do it.
Don't think murder is what he

1485
01:30:48,800 --> 01:30:55,300
needs right now.
So, it's early spring. 1999,

1486
01:30:55,500 --> 01:30:57,600
John starts hunting for a good
victim.

1487
01:30:58,000 --> 01:31:02,400
The wall of killers in his house
is surprisingly long, but none

1488
01:31:02,400 --> 01:31:06,000
of them will do.
Now, Jamie had one other step

1489
01:31:06,000 --> 01:31:08,300
brother.
His name was David Johnson.

1490
01:31:09,000 --> 01:31:11,400
And the, to actually were trying
to have like a decent

1491
01:31:11,400 --> 01:31:15,100
relationship.
They would say, birthday cards,

1492
01:31:15,100 --> 01:31:20,000
or call here, and there on a
holiday, but David was the last

1493
01:31:20,000 --> 01:31:22,500
link to the man who hurt him.
So much as a boy.

1494
01:31:23,000 --> 01:31:27,900
So, when they had those calls,
John would start like listening.

1495
01:31:29,400 --> 01:31:32,600
And twisting, the things that
David was saying.

1496
01:31:33,400 --> 01:31:37,700
He exclusively began referring
to David by the gay slur that

1497
01:31:37,700 --> 01:31:40,400
starts with an F.
Oh, are you talking to the app

1498
01:31:40,400 --> 01:31:44,200
again?
Things like that, when David was

1499
01:31:44,200 --> 01:31:47,200
excited and sharing good things
that were happening in his life,

1500
01:31:47,200 --> 01:31:50,100
John was just like he's rubbing
that in your face because he

1501
01:31:50,100 --> 01:31:55,500
knows you're a druggie and you
have nothing by the time, John

1502
01:31:55,500 --> 01:31:57,600
planned, the murder Jamie was on
board.

1503
01:31:59,300 --> 01:32:04,000
They lured David with a deal on
a good new computer May 9th,

1504
01:32:04,000 --> 01:32:07,000
1999, Jamie picked David up and
took him.

1505
01:32:07,000 --> 01:32:10,800
The snow town, they killed David
and the office before taking him

1506
01:32:10,800 --> 01:32:13,600
down to the waltz, they
threatened David with extreme

1507
01:32:13,600 --> 01:32:16,200
violence, unless he read out
this statement, they prepared

1508
01:32:16,200 --> 01:32:19,200
for him, the recording was like,
I'm leaving a delayed, I'm

1509
01:32:19,200 --> 01:32:23,000
cutting ties with my family.
He they made him admit to like

1510
01:32:23,000 --> 01:32:25,500
all sorts of gay stuff and
pedophilia.

1511
01:32:27,800 --> 01:32:35,700
During all of that.
David realized that the only

1512
01:32:35,700 --> 01:32:38,100
thing keeping him alive was
probably the pin number for his

1513
01:32:38,100 --> 01:32:42,200
bank card because he heard he
heard John talking about it.

1514
01:32:42,900 --> 01:32:46,500
And so, David ultimately gave
them a wrong PIN number and

1515
01:32:46,500 --> 01:32:48,800
Robert, and Jamie went off to go
try it.

1516
01:32:49,100 --> 01:32:58,300
And they left Mark with John And
of course, David was there to

1517
01:32:58,900 --> 01:33:03,100
Marks and on the live album,
Throwing Copper, and John

1518
01:33:03,100 --> 01:33:08,100
silently brought up the tools.
And then Mark used all of them,

1519
01:33:09,000 --> 01:33:14,500
taking out all of his rage and
sadness that he bottled up after

1520
01:33:14,500 --> 01:33:19,100
the death of his wife.
That album lasted for an hour

1521
01:33:19,100 --> 01:33:23,000
and marketing the entire time,
but Jamie cat came back.

1522
01:33:23,000 --> 01:33:25,600
He saw the dead body and was
just kind of like, what the

1523
01:33:25,600 --> 01:33:26,900
hell?
I thought we were doing this

1524
01:33:26,900 --> 01:33:31,500
together and John's like,
listen, Mark really needed this.

1525
01:33:32,600 --> 01:33:39,400
And then John dismembered, David
takes chunks of the Flesh and

1526
01:33:39,400 --> 01:33:45,100
like Cooks it, like a steak.
Offer some to everybody.

1527
01:33:46,600 --> 01:33:51,300
Mark who's covered in David's
blood as like, I do not want to

1528
01:33:51,300 --> 01:33:56,300
eat this man Jamie's.
Like I'm good on that one but

1529
01:33:56,300 --> 01:33:59,000
Robert Duggan.
As did John, they even cracked a

1530
01:33:59,000 --> 01:34:05,100
beer and laughed.
Now, John may have been happy

1531
01:34:05,100 --> 01:34:09,100
that day, but he's not going to
be happy with what followed see,

1532
01:34:09,100 --> 01:34:11,000
geryon.
Sinclair was not giving up on

1533
01:34:11,008 --> 01:34:16,800
his missing sister and he was
very much, you know, pushing the

1534
01:34:16,800 --> 01:34:22,100
police to do more but also
harassing the police and the

1535
01:34:22,100 --> 01:34:24,700
first Gap at the police.
Really zeroed in on was the fact

1536
01:34:24,700 --> 01:34:27,500
that Mark and Jodi had different
stories as to where Elizabeth

1537
01:34:27,500 --> 01:34:30,400
had gone.
It was like the two of them had

1538
01:34:30,400 --> 01:34:33,400
been given the same like vague
story but they had gone in like

1539
01:34:33,400 --> 01:34:38,400
a different direction.
The more they interviewed Mark

1540
01:34:38,400 --> 01:34:41,000
and Jodi the more, the stories
begin to diverge.

1541
01:34:43,100 --> 01:34:45,700
Garyun goes.
It's kind of weird that Mark

1542
01:34:45,700 --> 01:34:50,400
doesn't have a job and the
police were like, wait, he

1543
01:34:50,400 --> 01:34:53,800
doesn't have a job.
This house is really expensive,

1544
01:34:53,800 --> 01:34:55,600
and it's in a really nice
neighborhood.

1545
01:34:55,700 --> 01:34:59,400
How's he pay you for this?
Yep, the police start looking

1546
01:34:59,400 --> 01:35:02,000
into the finances and they
follow the same trail.

1547
01:35:02,000 --> 01:35:05,500
That Elizabeth did, like,
literally Elizabeth did the job

1548
01:35:05,500 --> 01:35:08,800
for them ahead of time.
And it sucks so much because she

1549
01:35:08,800 --> 01:35:12,100
should have just stopped and not
asked about, It's no town

1550
01:35:12,100 --> 01:35:13,900
because that is what got her
killed.

1551
01:35:18,000 --> 01:35:20,900
Either way, the police realized
that there were seven Social

1552
01:35:20,900 --> 01:35:23,700
Security checks attached to
seven missing people all going

1553
01:35:23,700 --> 01:35:26,700
into market accounts and very
quickly moved from a small

1554
01:35:26,700 --> 01:35:30,400
investigation to a big one.
The police didn't have any idea

1555
01:35:30,400 --> 01:35:32,600
how big this was and they were
like, is this just a massive

1556
01:35:32,600 --> 01:35:35,000
fraud case intertwined, with
missing people.

1557
01:35:35,600 --> 01:35:39,100
They discover snow town and
unfortunately, for David

1558
01:35:39,100 --> 01:35:41,600
Johnson.
He was murdered two weeks before

1559
01:35:41,600 --> 01:35:44,700
they got access to look at the
bank on Main Street and snow

1560
01:35:44,700 --> 01:35:49,000
town.
May 20th 1999 the creeped into

1561
01:35:49,000 --> 01:35:54,700
this Dusty old bank and like
silence is a very clear path to

1562
01:35:54,700 --> 01:35:56,900
all the rooms.
Were the members of the group

1563
01:35:56,900 --> 01:36:01,900
walked in the dust They get to
the computer, they it's doesn't

1564
01:36:01,900 --> 01:36:04,900
have many files on it.
They hear David Johnson's

1565
01:36:04,900 --> 01:36:07,000
confession, but it hadn't, been
edited.

1566
01:36:07,100 --> 01:36:09,600
So, the threats of violence were
still mixed in there.

1567
01:36:09,800 --> 01:36:11,900
So they knew that it was not a
real confession.

1568
01:36:13,000 --> 01:36:16,900
They went down to the Vault and
they see all these bins barrels

1569
01:36:17,200 --> 01:36:20,500
and so they open one of them
with a screwdriver like kind of

1570
01:36:20,500 --> 01:36:23,100
pop it up and look into the
inside.

1571
01:36:23,300 --> 01:36:26,100
The small was revolting, and it
was much too much for simple

1572
01:36:26,100 --> 01:36:31,100
detectives, they didn't bring in
six Specialists, who wore like

1573
01:36:31,700 --> 01:36:36,200
breathing apparatus has to open
the barrels.

1574
01:36:37,400 --> 01:36:41,800
And pull out the remains.
So, the police don't

1575
01:36:41,800 --> 01:36:44,900
immediately.
Interview.

1576
01:36:46,300 --> 01:36:50,800
John them they just they walk
around Adelaide and they ask

1577
01:36:50,800 --> 01:36:55,200
questions and that's when they
learn from the neighbors.

1578
01:36:55,700 --> 01:37:00,100
Oh Mark's not like the leader of
that group, it's John bunting.

1579
01:37:00,700 --> 01:37:04,400
They discovered that he lived
near Suzanne and Ray so they

1580
01:37:04,400 --> 01:37:08,500
request permission from the
court to dig up the backyard.

1581
01:37:08,800 --> 01:37:12,800
And of course, they find Suzanne
and pieces and Ray on May 28 and

1582
01:37:12,800 --> 01:37:15,800
Ray, May 23rd 1999, they did
this at midnight.

1583
01:37:15,800 --> 01:37:20,100
So Could tip John off.
And actually, once they find the

1584
01:37:20,100 --> 01:37:25,600
remains, they do a arrest, but
all at the same time, John Mark,

1585
01:37:25,600 --> 01:37:29,000
Robert and Jamie, I'll get
picked up and they are taken to

1586
01:37:29,000 --> 01:37:30,400
different via in different
Vehicles.

1587
01:37:30,400 --> 01:37:31,800
Two different interrogation
rooms.

1588
01:37:32,200 --> 01:37:34,800
None of them are allowed to see
or speak to each other.

1589
01:37:36,300 --> 01:37:39,600
John says nothing.
He was always planning on the

1590
01:37:39,600 --> 01:37:43,000
day that somebody found out.
Right?

1591
01:37:43,200 --> 01:37:45,500
For hours, the police are like,
what about, you know?

1592
01:37:45,500 --> 01:37:47,600
What's going on with the bones
in the barrels?

1593
01:37:47,600 --> 01:37:51,100
He had an answer for everything.
The police actually had to

1594
01:37:51,100 --> 01:37:54,000
station themselves around snow
town bank as every media Outlet

1595
01:37:54,000 --> 01:37:58,900
in the country was trying to
break in. the police did their

1596
01:37:58,900 --> 01:38:02,200
job, they followed the evidence,
they collected more data, John

1597
01:38:02,200 --> 01:38:04,800
always sat there cool as a
cucumber convinced, he was the

1598
01:38:04,800 --> 01:38:12,100
smartest man in the room but he
was not See, John didn't go to

1599
01:38:12,100 --> 01:38:14,600
college.
So all of his chemistry

1600
01:38:14,600 --> 01:38:20,600
knowledge was from high school
And John hadn't bought the right

1601
01:38:20,600 --> 01:38:22,700
chemical.
Like the one they had in school.

1602
01:38:23,800 --> 01:38:27,600
The chemical.
He bought hadn't dissolved, the

1603
01:38:27,608 --> 01:38:33,000
bodies, but it pickled them, it
preserved, the bodies.

1604
01:38:33,000 --> 01:38:36,000
Yes it did.
Oh my God.

1605
01:38:37,800 --> 01:38:40,700
So they didn't get, they
couldn't get proof of the

1606
01:38:40,700 --> 01:38:43,300
torture for the bodies that were
in the ground because they've

1607
01:38:43,300 --> 01:38:46,200
been there for so long.
But for the bodies in the

1608
01:38:46,200 --> 01:38:51,700
barrels, every Mark, every
bruise, every cut, every blow

1609
01:38:51,700 --> 01:38:56,200
torch, mark, Was visible had
been preserved.

1610
01:38:59,400 --> 01:39:02,000
John's arrogance had pretty much
doomed, everybody.

1611
01:39:02,200 --> 01:39:05,100
They had the coroner report they
had the tools that they use to

1612
01:39:05,100 --> 01:39:09,200
do the torture all the bodies
and the financial details.

1613
01:39:09,200 --> 01:39:13,200
This is a slam-dunk case but
they wanted and out an Insider.

1614
01:39:13,300 --> 01:39:15,800
They wanted a confession from
one of the man they had in

1615
01:39:15,800 --> 01:39:19,400
custody.
They started by trying to get

1616
01:39:19,400 --> 01:39:26,600
Julie to talk The problem was.
one Joanie Jodi was complicit

1617
01:39:26,600 --> 01:39:31,900
with the Suzanne fraud to, she
was so like messed up from grief

1618
01:39:32,600 --> 01:39:36,300
that She admits, she agreed to
anything.

1619
01:39:36,300 --> 01:39:38,900
The police said and they were
like, yeah.

1620
01:39:40,000 --> 01:39:43,800
They're going to argue that
after these this lost her Minds

1621
01:39:43,800 --> 01:39:46,900
addled, she's not going to be a
good witness, then they tried

1622
01:39:46,900 --> 01:39:52,200
Elizabeth Harvey.
The problem was while Jamie's in

1623
01:39:52,200 --> 01:39:56,200
prison, Elizabeth gets cancer
and she actually dies before

1624
01:39:56,200 --> 01:39:58,100
they can really get a lot of
information.

1625
01:40:02,400 --> 01:40:04,900
That was the straw that really
broke Jamie's back.

1626
01:40:06,400 --> 01:40:09,000
Sitting alone in his cell.
He had a lot of time to think

1627
01:40:09,000 --> 01:40:12,500
and all his thinking, went back
to John, John killed, his family

1628
01:40:12,500 --> 01:40:16,100
members, John killed, his
friend, John isolated him from

1629
01:40:16,100 --> 01:40:18,800
everyone, who loved him.
John, manipulated him into doing

1630
01:40:18,800 --> 01:40:21,800
terrible things, John had never
raped him like his dad or his

1631
01:40:21,800 --> 01:40:25,300
brother, but John heard him,
just as badly, and now that he

1632
01:40:25,300 --> 01:40:29,400
didn't have to worry about if
him talking would hurt Elizabeth

1633
01:40:31,100 --> 01:40:36,600
He said, I'll Make a Deal.
I will plead guilty to the

1634
01:40:36,600 --> 01:40:40,200
things that I was there to see.
He'd only been involved in four

1635
01:40:40,200 --> 01:40:42,700
of the murders but he agreed
that he would accept the

1636
01:40:42,700 --> 01:40:46,500
punishment for the direct harm.
He caused during the multi-year

1637
01:40:46,500 --> 01:40:49,500
run up to the court case.
The court tried to protect his

1638
01:40:49,500 --> 01:40:52,000
anonymity because he was there
Smoking Gun.

1639
01:40:52,400 --> 01:40:56,200
I'm no reporters, no photos, not
even description of him in the

1640
01:40:56,208 --> 01:40:58,500
books.
Jamie's trial was the first and

1641
01:40:58,500 --> 01:41:01,100
the shortest he received, four
life sentences, one for each of

1642
01:41:01,108 --> 01:41:03,800
the people he helped killed and
he started his time in prison.

1643
01:41:03,900 --> 01:41:09,100
In June 21st, 2001.
Robert Wagner and John bunting

1644
01:41:09,100 --> 01:41:12,400
were tried to gather.
John got on the stand and

1645
01:41:12,400 --> 01:41:16,000
gloated proud of it all.
It was like he had given a

1646
01:41:16,000 --> 01:41:20,100
police confession.
Just in front of an audience.

1647
01:41:21,200 --> 01:41:23,500
He was proud of it.
He wanted to be known for it.

1648
01:41:23,500 --> 01:41:26,400
He said, I killed 11 of the 12
people, which was true.

1649
01:41:26,600 --> 01:41:29,800
Robert admitted to only three,
John was convicted of 11 and

1650
01:41:29,800 --> 01:41:34,000
Robert was convicted of 10 that
took another two years.

1651
01:41:34,100 --> 01:41:38,400
So we only have such 2003 now
Mark was different because he

1652
01:41:38,400 --> 01:41:40,800
was the least involved in the
murders but deeply entwined in

1653
01:41:40,800 --> 01:41:43,400
the fraud case.
Marks case went happened in

1654
01:41:43,400 --> 01:41:46,600
2004, he was convicted of five
counts of assisting with a

1655
01:41:46,600 --> 01:41:49,900
murder and that was later
upgraded to seven counts in

1656
01:41:49,900 --> 01:41:54,400
2007, Robert John actually push
for appeal after appeal and in

1657
01:41:54,407 --> 01:41:57,800
2005, the Supreme Court of
Australia.

1658
01:41:57,900 --> 01:42:00,700
Rejects their case.
And these are two direct quotes

1659
01:42:00,700 --> 01:42:04,300
that I love them saying that
John and Robert were in the

1660
01:42:04,300 --> 01:42:09,200
business of Killing For Pleasure
and And incapable of true

1661
01:42:09,200 --> 01:42:12,500
Rehabilitation.
Yeah, Robert.

1662
01:42:12,500 --> 01:42:16,200
And John did however, win on the
want to peel on the death of

1663
01:42:16,200 --> 01:42:20,300
Suzanne Allen in May of 2007.
No one could prove how Susan

1664
01:42:20,300 --> 01:42:25,200
died and the jury couldn't
decide the house in Salisbury,

1665
01:42:25,600 --> 01:42:29,800
was demolished by its owner.
That was the one with the two

1666
01:42:29,800 --> 01:42:31,900
bodies in the backyard, right?
Yeah.

1667
01:42:33,000 --> 01:42:38,200
The house in Murray bridge,
where Elizabeth and John and

1668
01:42:38,200 --> 01:42:41,500
Jamie lived was sold more than
likely to pay for court fees.

1669
01:42:42,400 --> 01:42:46,700
The bank which had a
four-bedroom house attached was

1670
01:42:46,700 --> 01:42:49,500
put on oxygen, February of 2012
for two hundred thousand

1671
01:42:49,500 --> 01:42:53,000
dollars.
It did not hit half of that, so

1672
01:42:53,000 --> 01:42:56,300
they tried again, and this time
it didn't open house, like five

1673
01:42:56,300 --> 01:42:59,100
dollars a person and all the
people who showed up what, get

1674
01:42:59,500 --> 01:43:01,900
all the money they made will go
to charity.

1675
01:43:02,600 --> 01:43:04,700
They made a call.
I mean, like $700, so that's not

1676
01:43:04,700 --> 01:43:07,700
bad.
And they did sell the Property

1677
01:43:08,300 --> 01:43:10,900
four hundred eighty five
thousand dollars the family who

1678
01:43:10,900 --> 01:43:15,100
owns it live in the house
portion and they did turn the

1679
01:43:15,100 --> 01:43:21,400
property back into a bank, okay?
I saw an article saying that

1680
01:43:21,400 --> 01:43:23,900
they were going to put a plaque
up to memorialize the victims,

1681
01:43:23,900 --> 01:43:26,200
but I have not seen the actual
plaque.

1682
01:43:27,400 --> 01:43:32,800
And even though it took like six
years, the actual legally, as

1683
01:43:32,800 --> 01:43:35,100
was a very difficult here.
Great.

1684
01:43:35,600 --> 01:43:39,000
Yeah, it was like cut and dry.
But, yeah, I love the fact that

1685
01:43:39,000 --> 01:43:42,300
like, he just and he didn't even
bother to check because they

1686
01:43:42,300 --> 01:43:44,200
were doing this for, like three
years.

1687
01:43:44,600 --> 01:43:48,000
Like, did you look in the first
bin and like, see that like

1688
01:43:48,000 --> 01:43:50,500
check to give the body
dissolved?

1689
01:43:51,100 --> 01:43:53,600
Like that would be.
The one thing you would do like

1690
01:43:53,600 --> 01:43:56,300
just make her like test out to
solution that you have.

1691
01:43:56,300 --> 01:44:00,300
Make sure it's actually acid and
it would dissolve your bodies.

1692
01:44:00,600 --> 01:44:04,800
But I mean, we graduated High
school.

1693
01:44:04,800 --> 01:44:09,000
So we would know the check.
I'm just saying like just

1694
01:44:09,000 --> 01:44:13,200
checking general or at least
test tested.

1695
01:44:14,500 --> 01:44:16,400
On something.
Yeah.

1696
01:44:18,500 --> 01:44:21,500
Oh my God.
But yeah, that's the story

1697
01:44:22,800 --> 01:44:28,400
bodies in the barrels.
Look, I it's such a weird

1698
01:44:28,400 --> 01:44:30,100
feeling, right?
Yeah.

1699
01:44:30,100 --> 01:44:32,900
Because like pedophiles, yes, no
one likes.

1700
01:44:32,900 --> 01:44:34,900
Pedophiles it.
Do they deserve to die?

1701
01:44:35,600 --> 01:44:38,500
Yeah.
Yeah, absolutely.

1702
01:44:38,500 --> 01:44:40,800
Weirdness here.
Is that not everybody was a

1703
01:44:40,800 --> 01:44:41,900
pedophile.
Exactly.

1704
01:44:41,900 --> 01:44:44,100
He just he assumed.
If they were gay, they were

1705
01:44:44,200 --> 01:44:48,500
Obviously a pedophile to use it.
I mean, Barry did groom Robert.

1706
01:44:48,500 --> 01:44:49,800
That is real.
Okay.

1707
01:44:49,800 --> 01:44:53,500
Yes, something sometime.
And honestly he was about to do

1708
01:44:53,500 --> 01:44:58,600
the same thing to Thomas.
He definitely like 50 year old

1709
01:44:58,600 --> 01:45:01,100
man.
Should not be trying the sleep

1710
01:45:01,100 --> 01:45:02,800
with an 18 year old.
No, no.

1711
01:45:02,800 --> 01:45:07,700
They should not be friends with
anybody in their teens or

1712
01:45:07,800 --> 01:45:13,000
twenties, maybe, 1930s or 50.
I mean, yeah, it's rough.

1713
01:45:13,300 --> 01:45:21,800
So on one hand, you're like, oh,
I understand Partially, the

1714
01:45:21,800 --> 01:45:26,400
understand, the one he'd yes,
and the Crusade against child

1715
01:45:26,400 --> 01:45:30,400
sexual assault, but on the other
hand, he was just a man who

1716
01:45:30,400 --> 01:45:34,800
really liked.
Well, after his abuse, he was

1717
01:45:34,800 --> 01:45:38,100
someone who enjoyed indulging in
the pain of others.

1718
01:45:38,200 --> 01:45:42,100
Yeah, he needed that.
So you can get over his own

1719
01:45:42,100 --> 01:45:46,300
pain.
Goodness gracious.

1720
01:45:46,300 --> 01:45:50,700
Yes, that's a, that's a, that's
a tough one because like I, like

1721
01:45:50,700 --> 01:45:53,400
he said, we understand it, but
it's not like that.

1722
01:45:53,400 --> 01:45:55,400
You weren't doing it to every
pedophile.

1723
01:45:55,700 --> 01:45:58,400
You're doing it to keep me.
Just pick the one guy because he

1724
01:45:58,407 --> 01:46:00,900
was like, I, you get benefits
checks any money.

1725
01:46:01,200 --> 01:46:04,300
Yep.
Goodness gracious.

1726
01:46:05,000 --> 01:46:07,600
It's wild because in the States,
you have to, like, verify all

1727
01:46:07,600 --> 01:46:10,100
this information every year.
Yeah, absolutely.

1728
01:46:10,300 --> 01:46:13,200
I'm sure probably now their
systems probably a little bit

1729
01:46:13,200 --> 01:46:16,100
better.
But back a good 20 years ago,

1730
01:46:16,100 --> 01:46:19,300
the checks and balances were not
in place to make sure because

1731
01:46:19,300 --> 01:46:22,800
this is actually like, well,
okay they didn't kill them, but

1732
01:46:22,800 --> 01:46:25,800
when I was in Philadelphia, it
happened, multiple times that

1733
01:46:25,800 --> 01:46:29,700
people like kidnapped, they're
like elderly relatives.

1734
01:46:30,200 --> 01:46:33,700
Yeah, I said the Social Security
checks, I remember it happening.

1735
01:46:33,700 --> 01:46:38,500
I remember hearing about that,
it was so unlike the family

1736
01:46:38,500 --> 01:46:41,600
member would be like, in the
basement, like almost starved to

1737
01:46:41,600 --> 01:46:43,000
death.
Yes, yes.

1738
01:46:43,800 --> 01:46:48,700
Scruple.
So check fraud mix with abuse of

1739
01:46:48,700 --> 01:46:50,800
people with disabilities or
elderly.

1740
01:46:51,100 --> 01:46:54,300
Apparently, is much more common
than we think.

1741
01:46:54,400 --> 01:46:56,100
And so, I think that might be
why.

1742
01:46:56,100 --> 01:46:58,100
Now people have to check in
every year.

1743
01:46:59,300 --> 01:47:01,900
It's a good you haven't been
kidnapped, right?

1744
01:47:01,900 --> 01:47:09,200
Yeah, it's good thing.
Well, okay, what do you have to

1745
01:47:09,200 --> 01:47:11,300
talk about today?
Okay.

1746
01:47:12,300 --> 01:47:15,100
To those of you that know me,
you know?

1747
01:47:15,100 --> 01:47:18,600
I'm all about that gamer life.
Okay.

1748
01:47:19,700 --> 01:47:22,900
I've been poor with that.
Yeah, me and Brittany about that

1749
01:47:22,900 --> 01:47:27,800
gamer life.
I mean, go ahead and we'll Elder

1750
01:47:27,800 --> 01:47:31,900
ring since it was released.
And no, I have not beaten yet,

1751
01:47:32,100 --> 01:47:34,600
it's been a month.
I don't care if it's just, it's

1752
01:47:34,600 --> 01:47:36,500
a hard game.
Okay, is what my ass?

1753
01:47:37,700 --> 01:47:40,700
I got.
Massive fact, legendary, and

1754
01:47:40,700 --> 01:47:44,400
I've been playing the game.
I played through the first one

1755
01:47:44,400 --> 01:47:47,200
last week.
No, two weeks ago.

1756
01:47:47,200 --> 01:47:48,900
And then I'm on the second one
now.

1757
01:47:49,800 --> 01:47:52,500
I've just been playing through
every RPG.

1758
01:47:52,500 --> 01:47:56,700
I can get my hands on right now.
It started with cyberpunk 2077,

1759
01:47:56,700 --> 01:48:00,000
and I just can't stop.
Yeah, they're fun games.

1760
01:48:00,000 --> 01:48:02,900
RPGs are really fun.
Well, I didn't think they were

1761
01:48:02,900 --> 01:48:07,700
that many for like Playstation
Xbox.

1762
01:48:07,700 --> 01:48:09,800
But there are lots, o.
Ya know.

1763
01:48:09,800 --> 01:48:13,300
There are tons, what back to our
point.

1764
01:48:13,300 --> 01:48:18,400
So today's or yesterday's creep
is game-related.

1765
01:48:18,700 --> 01:48:19,400
Yeah.
Yeah.

1766
01:48:19,600 --> 01:48:21,700
You know, it's funny because
I've been actually trying to

1767
01:48:21,700 --> 01:48:27,900
stream some scary games as well.
I got to like one is a very,

1768
01:48:27,900 --> 01:48:34,400
very woke horror game.
And the other one is a dating

1769
01:48:34,400 --> 01:48:38,700
simulator about Cryptids.
And, you know, if there's a

1770
01:48:38,700 --> 01:48:43,400
chance for me to romance a
freaking monster, I'm in there.

1771
01:48:49,500 --> 01:48:58,600
But yeah, it's today I decided
to do a another haunted gaming

1772
01:48:58,600 --> 01:49:03,700
episode.
Like the first one I did was

1773
01:49:03,700 --> 01:49:07,000
about, you know, some
Creepypasta video games, like

1774
01:49:07,000 --> 01:49:12,300
Pokemon and stuff like that.
And this one is kind of similar

1775
01:49:12,300 --> 01:49:15,500
a similar.
It's a, you know, they're the

1776
01:49:15,500 --> 01:49:19,300
games.
I will be talking about Don't

1777
01:49:19,300 --> 01:49:23,900
really exist but there's no
proof that they don't exist.

1778
01:49:24,000 --> 01:49:28,100
Either, that makes sense.
Is this like that weird thing is

1779
01:49:28,100 --> 01:49:34,700
I'll do with the clock.
The Clock Town, there's some

1780
01:49:34,700 --> 01:49:38,800
sort of weird, creepy, pasta /.
You can make this thing really

1781
01:49:38,800 --> 01:49:43,700
happen that involves like the
original Zelda and a clock

1782
01:49:43,700 --> 01:49:47,200
thing.
And I listen, I just know it's

1783
01:49:47,200 --> 01:49:50,500
creepy pasta that I read one
time and place it is real.

1784
01:49:51,100 --> 01:49:56,000
It's you tell my been drowned
Maybe it's part of that.

1785
01:49:56,000 --> 01:49:59,200
It's the N64 thing.
Yeah, yeah, it is okay.

1786
01:50:03,300 --> 01:50:07,600
It's sort of something like
that, but that's about video

1787
01:50:07,600 --> 01:50:13,700
game die in the game.
You die in real life.

1788
01:50:14,000 --> 01:50:15,500
Okay?
It's something like that.

1789
01:50:15,500 --> 01:50:17,100
That's that's all that's one of
them.

1790
01:50:17,600 --> 01:50:21,700
Sorry that was from the video
game horror movie that was about

1791
01:50:24,200 --> 01:50:26,600
Gosh.
The Countess Bathory.

1792
01:50:27,400 --> 01:50:30,000
Okay, yes.
As you explored her castle.

1793
01:50:30,200 --> 01:50:32,200
Listen.
That guy movie was slapped on.

1794
01:50:32,200 --> 01:50:34,200
It was good.
It's, yeah.

1795
01:50:34,200 --> 01:50:36,500
I've seen it.
It's not bad.

1796
01:50:36,600 --> 01:50:38,400
I like it.
There's another teen horror

1797
01:50:38,400 --> 01:50:40,900
movie.
And the reason why I'm talking

1798
01:50:40,900 --> 01:50:44,500
about video game, like horror
stuff today is because there's a

1799
01:50:44,500 --> 01:50:48,400
movie on Netflix As baseball,
and it's based, it might be

1800
01:50:48,400 --> 01:50:50,600
based on one of the stories I'm
going to tell you today.

1801
01:50:52,900 --> 01:50:55,200
Yeah, I forget what it's called.
I got to look it up again, but

1802
01:50:55,200 --> 01:50:56,800
it's the one of the new ones is
came out.

1803
01:50:56,800 --> 01:51:03,700
So I think one of the things
that you talked about a little

1804
01:51:03,700 --> 01:51:06,600
while ago, one of those weird
like videos.

1805
01:51:08,500 --> 01:51:12,800
I think I saw one and it was
super creepy because someone had

1806
01:51:12,800 --> 01:51:18,100
made a video game, that was
almost identical to the the

1807
01:51:18,100 --> 01:51:20,500
creepy video.
You're talking.

1808
01:51:21,000 --> 01:51:24,200
It was the one with the person
running through like the office.

1809
01:51:24,600 --> 01:51:29,500
Mase you're saying chasing them
the, but the back rooms because

1810
01:51:29,500 --> 01:51:34,000
you had told me about it and I'm
watching the game and I'm like,

1811
01:51:34,000 --> 01:51:37,600
this is exactly what Brian was
talking about is really creepy.

1812
01:51:38,300 --> 01:51:40,700
Is to back up what turned it
into a game.

1813
01:51:41,000 --> 01:51:43,700
There's a pretty weird, there's
a game about the back rooms and

1814
01:51:43,700 --> 01:51:48,300
there's a game about medel that
Mandela effect as well, and then

1815
01:51:48,300 --> 01:51:50,900
I can build a catalog.
I found the original backrooms

1816
01:51:50,900 --> 01:51:53,100
videos and there's more of them.
Oh yeah.

1817
01:51:53,100 --> 01:51:56,100
No, they're too.
Yeah, they're doing a lot of

1818
01:51:56,100 --> 01:51:59,600
creepy creepy.
So, for today, I'm just going to

1819
01:51:59,608 --> 01:52:02,500
do two stories one.
I actually did a write-up on and

1820
01:52:02,500 --> 01:52:05,100
the other one, I think it would
just be better for me to tell

1821
01:52:05,100 --> 01:52:06,900
you the story.
Okay.

1822
01:52:07,300 --> 01:52:10,700
Like to read it.
You guys so that, you know, you

1823
01:52:10,700 --> 01:52:18,600
get the whole sense of it.
And I'm like, it's there all

1824
01:52:18,700 --> 01:52:20,600
their old stories so it doesn't
really matter.

1825
01:52:21,800 --> 01:52:28,100
I don't think so.
Now for story, I, it's a, it's

1826
01:52:28,100 --> 01:52:35,800
a, it's the game is cold.
Paul libous, I guess I was

1827
01:52:35,800 --> 01:52:43,700
pronounced Pol ybi.
U.s. okay.

1828
01:52:43,700 --> 01:52:45,900
That's what if you don't look it
up.

1829
01:52:46,000 --> 01:52:56,400
It's a so back in 1981 There's a
mysterious arcade cabinet that

1830
01:52:56,400 --> 01:53:03,200
that shows up in Portland,
Oregon and this was no ordinary

1831
01:53:03,200 --> 01:53:09,800
game.
A lot of people who played the

1832
01:53:09,800 --> 01:53:18,600
game speculated that it was
either a tool used by the the

1833
01:53:18,600 --> 01:53:22,400
the government US government to
test.

1834
01:53:23,300 --> 01:53:27,500
So this is total, this is sort
of like a conspiracy mixed in,

1835
01:53:27,500 --> 01:53:33,500
with some creepy.
It's so is used by the US

1836
01:53:33,500 --> 01:53:37,000
government to the test,
someone's like agility or

1837
01:53:37,000 --> 01:53:40,800
mental, you know, mental
cognitive congregation stuff

1838
01:53:40,800 --> 01:53:45,100
like that, you know, for
recruiting soldiers for the

1839
01:53:45,100 --> 01:53:51,200
Army.
And it's funny because I

1840
01:53:51,200 --> 01:53:55,200
remember hearing something about
the US Army, actually having

1841
01:53:55,200 --> 01:53:59,800
like the recruits playing video
games because you know how your

1842
01:53:59,800 --> 01:54:04,200
reflexes are good.
If you're playing video games in

1843
01:54:04,200 --> 01:54:07,600
which they really are.
And it's just funny.

1844
01:54:07,600 --> 01:54:12,600
Tell the story like it just
correlated that there is real

1845
01:54:14,400 --> 01:54:17,800
Truth to this.
Absolutely.

1846
01:54:19,400 --> 01:54:24,700
Oh.
He Pol y bi us.

1847
01:54:26,600 --> 01:54:31,200
Polybius.
Yeah, Holly B is yes.

1848
01:54:31,400 --> 01:54:35,100
We've mentioned this have we
well briefly.

1849
01:54:35,500 --> 01:54:38,300
It was when I talked about I
think was talked about MK Ultra.

1850
01:54:38,800 --> 01:54:40,100
Okay.
Okay.

1851
01:54:40,600 --> 01:54:44,500
It was like in passing I was
super into it because I was

1852
01:54:44,500 --> 01:54:48,200
focused more on all the other
stuff attached to MKUltra.

1853
01:54:48,500 --> 01:54:51,400
Okay so if you guys wouldn't
listen to MKUltra stuff going to

1854
01:54:51,600 --> 01:54:56,300
go up, subscribe to our patreon
or or Spotify whatever.

1855
01:55:03,200 --> 01:55:08,500
Yeah yeah, yeah, okay.
So you know it's it was

1856
01:55:08,500 --> 01:55:13,400
something that was either used
for training recruiting soldiers

1857
01:55:13,400 --> 01:55:19,500
or it was something that the CIA
planted that was used for like

1858
01:55:19,500 --> 01:55:25,500
you said and K Ultra a
brainwashing tool, or it was

1859
01:55:25,500 --> 01:55:30,600
just like put there by the the
man in Black Who were just

1860
01:55:30,600 --> 01:55:36,600
trying to collect information.
About whatever it like, Men In

1861
01:55:36,600 --> 01:55:38,400
Black.
They're aliens, okay?

1862
01:55:38,500 --> 01:55:40,600
They're aliens are weird guys.
Who knows?

1863
01:55:40,600 --> 01:55:42,000
What they want to collect data
at all on?

1864
01:55:44,100 --> 01:55:45,700
At least you're not probing
bugs.

1865
01:55:47,700 --> 01:55:49,700
Who knows our aliens?
Okay.

1866
01:55:53,700 --> 01:55:57,600
Oh, god.
Um, okay, so so like I said,

1867
01:55:57,600 --> 01:56:02,100
this, this, this art is arcade,
it shows up this, this arcade

1868
01:56:02,100 --> 01:56:06,700
cabinet shows up in Portland, as
or this arcade, and Portland

1869
01:56:06,700 --> 01:56:14,500
Oregon 1981.
Now, it had, it was addicting to

1870
01:56:14,500 --> 01:56:21,400
some people and a lot of people
who play the game, you know,

1871
01:56:21,400 --> 01:56:24,600
they stopped playing the game.
And then after a while, don't be

1872
01:56:24,600 --> 01:56:28,600
playing, no one would be playing
the game but then some guys

1873
01:56:28,600 --> 01:56:35,100
dressed in black would come and
like mess with the game.

1874
01:56:35,100 --> 01:56:36,700
That's what the back of the
game.

1875
01:56:37,100 --> 01:56:45,100
You know, go inside of it, get
some stuff out of there and And

1876
01:56:45,108 --> 01:56:49,300
then like leave and people were
just like, what the, what was

1877
01:56:49,300 --> 01:56:51,800
that all about.
So, you know, rumors of structs

1878
01:56:51,800 --> 01:56:54,100
are spreading, like, all this
game must have something to do

1879
01:56:54,100 --> 01:56:57,100
with the Men in Black, or the
government, they're like, you

1880
01:56:57,100 --> 01:57:03,100
assume, because if I see someone
coming, open up the a game

1881
01:57:03,100 --> 01:57:05,700
cabinet and Fiddle with it, I'm
assuming they're fixing

1882
01:57:05,700 --> 01:57:11,200
something, but okay, but they're
dressed in case someone dressed

1883
01:57:11,200 --> 01:57:14,600
in black.
Black sunglasses.

1884
01:57:14,600 --> 01:57:16,800
I got that black suit on, I
would say.

1885
01:57:17,000 --> 01:57:21,300
That's a man in Black.
If I was young I would have

1886
01:57:21,300 --> 01:57:23,000
thought.
Yes.

1887
01:57:23,700 --> 01:57:30,400
I mean I would I mean I won't be
like yeah yeah yeah.

1888
01:57:31,700 --> 01:57:33,600
Like what are these guys doing
this?

1889
01:57:33,600 --> 01:57:35,800
Talk to him.
Like stranger things style.

1890
01:57:35,900 --> 01:57:42,800
Oh my God.
So, I read this part that says

1891
01:57:42,800 --> 01:57:50,400
there are two documentarians
Todd Muto and John frechette.

1892
01:57:51,100 --> 01:57:54,700
Wait, no is another one dalen,
Rafe.

1893
01:57:55,100 --> 01:57:59,100
So they are, they're looking,
they're doing like a documentary

1894
01:57:59,100 --> 01:58:06,000
on Trying to figure out this
arcade cabinet actually existed.

1895
01:58:06,400 --> 01:58:11,200
And if the room in the rumors
behind it, we're actually true.

1896
01:58:12,300 --> 01:58:16,400
The name, meaning of it, the
paulibus livius.

1897
01:58:16,500 --> 01:58:18,300
Polybius, no.
I do not.

1898
01:58:18,300 --> 01:58:21,700
Is there a meaning behind it?
He's a Greek philosopher from

1899
01:58:21,700 --> 01:58:25,700
2008.
I saw that I saw that he was a

1900
01:58:25,708 --> 01:58:28,300
good puzzle maker.
I didn't know there was

1901
01:58:28,300 --> 01:58:29,600
something else.
Okay.

1902
01:58:29,900 --> 01:58:33,800
Yeah, I saw that I saw So it's a
good name for a video game

1903
01:58:33,800 --> 01:58:35,500
regard.
I really is, you know, whether

1904
01:58:35,500 --> 01:58:39,500
it's real or not like polybius,
it's a, I guess I don't

1905
01:58:39,500 --> 01:58:41,500
understand like the one thing
that I like it, because I guess

1906
01:58:41,500 --> 01:58:44,300
this pops up in loads of gamer
forms and things.

1907
01:58:46,000 --> 01:58:50,500
Like why would like Puzzles make
people have, like seizures?

1908
01:58:51,300 --> 01:58:56,600
I mean, like if there is nothing
flashing it Mikey they never

1909
01:58:56,600 --> 01:58:59,300
talk about what actually happens
in the game.

1910
01:58:59,400 --> 01:59:02,100
No, they really don't.
Is he The people who like all

1911
01:59:02,100 --> 01:59:06,400
this mystery it was like some
people say it was like a

1912
01:59:06,400 --> 01:59:10,700
simulator so like a you know,
simulator or some people got

1913
01:59:10,700 --> 01:59:14,500
sick from playing it.
So this doesn't really say

1914
01:59:14,500 --> 01:59:17,100
headaches migraines.
There's like a newspaper article

1915
01:59:17,100 --> 01:59:21,300
about a heart attack.
Yeah, yeah.

1916
01:59:22,200 --> 01:59:28,400
People will were but yeah, they
were doing searches, you know,

1917
01:59:28,400 --> 01:59:32,000
they got a Kickstarter to see if
this game arcade was really real

1918
01:59:32,000 --> 01:59:35,900
or not I mean there's yeah
there's no real proof of it

1919
01:59:35,900 --> 01:59:39,100
being real right now.
So those are like they're

1920
01:59:39,100 --> 01:59:40,400
searching.
Good.

1921
01:59:42,200 --> 01:59:45,000
Documentary to watch them.
Great, exactly.

1922
01:59:45,300 --> 01:59:50,700
Now, there are games that have
been made based off of this.

1923
01:59:50,900 --> 01:59:53,100
Yes, I have seen some of those.
Okay.

1924
01:59:53,400 --> 01:59:55,600
All right.
Yeah, there's some for the PC.

1925
01:59:56,300 --> 02:00:02,100
Some for PlayStation, The named
Paulette.

1926
02:00:02,200 --> 02:00:03,700
Was it?
Polybius you?

1927
02:00:03,700 --> 02:00:05,800
How did you say?
Yes, I'm saying what you said

1928
02:00:05,800 --> 02:00:06,400
it?
Okay.

1929
02:00:07,300 --> 02:00:14,000
Yes, it's, it's popped up a lot
over the years and it's like, in

1930
02:00:14,900 --> 02:00:17,200
popular culture.
If anyways, watches him soon as

1931
02:00:17,200 --> 02:00:19,500
I could, I could have put this
in my Simpsons episode.

1932
02:00:19,600 --> 02:00:22,900
Oh yeah, that isn't a Simpson.
Yeah.

1933
02:00:23,200 --> 02:00:27,100
Martin arcade and there's an
arcade cabinet next to him and

1934
02:00:27,100 --> 02:00:30,400
it says, polybius on.
It's spelled the same way.

1935
02:00:30,700 --> 02:00:38,000
It's written the same way as as
the one is and I think in Metal

1936
02:00:38,000 --> 02:00:44,600
Gear Solid, there is also a
reference to polybius.

1937
02:00:45,500 --> 02:00:51,100
It's like at the end there's a
as Medicare Solitude there's a

1938
02:00:51,200 --> 02:00:54,200
like, a plans plans of making
project.

1939
02:00:54,200 --> 02:00:58,700
Polybius and if you look at the
blueprints, it's an arcade

1940
02:00:58,700 --> 02:01:02,900
cabinet.
And like just little, if

1941
02:01:02,900 --> 02:01:06,900
sprinkled out throughout
history, like this thing might

1942
02:01:06,900 --> 02:01:12,800
be real, or it's just something
that people like to talk about.

1943
02:01:15,900 --> 02:01:19,000
but yeah that's that was one
that's like it's not really

1944
02:01:19,000 --> 02:01:21,700
creepy but it's just like you
know men in black or coming in

1945
02:01:21,700 --> 02:01:29,400
to check out this arcade cabinet
and It may be used for testing

1946
02:01:30,000 --> 02:01:34,000
and like training soldiers, or
it could just be used for all

1947
02:01:34,008 --> 02:01:36,100
the interesting thing about like
the claims about like the

1948
02:01:36,100 --> 02:01:39,400
headaches and stuff is that like
I mean, do you remember that

1949
02:01:39,400 --> 02:01:44,000
Nintendo had set that sat on a
table?

1950
02:01:44,200 --> 02:01:47,700
Oh yes of course.
I mean that did cause like

1951
02:01:47,700 --> 02:01:51,000
issues with people's eyes and
their heads and stuff, so it's

1952
02:01:51,000 --> 02:01:54,400
not super far off from the realm
of reality.

1953
02:01:54,500 --> 02:01:55,300
No.
Not at all.

1954
02:01:58,900 --> 02:02:04,200
Yeah, I guess there are a few
Creepypastas about this as well.

1955
02:02:05,100 --> 02:02:08,500
I'm not going to read any of
those today because they'll be

1956
02:02:08,500 --> 02:02:15,500
extra long but there's another
video game that's almost like

1957
02:02:15,500 --> 02:02:16,700
this.
Okay.

1958
02:02:17,200 --> 02:02:22,400
It's um, stop me if you've heard
this one, it's called kill

1959
02:02:22,400 --> 02:02:30,300
switch.
It's I mean okay there's an

1960
02:02:30,300 --> 02:02:33,200
actual game called kill switch.
It's on the PlayStation.

1961
02:02:33,200 --> 02:02:36,200
I think we're something like
it's very old 80s.

1962
02:02:36,400 --> 02:02:43,900
Yeah yeah but there is a story
about a game called kill switch

1963
02:02:44,200 --> 02:02:49,600
and that's one I'm going to I'm
going to finish off with today

1964
02:02:49,600 --> 02:02:54,100
because it's extra long.
Okay and I feel like it's a good

1965
02:02:54,100 --> 02:02:59,400
story.
So indulge me, let me get you my

1966
02:02:59,600 --> 02:03:06,300
narrator space.
All right. so, in the spring of

1967
02:03:06,300 --> 02:03:11,500
1989, They're the car.
Veena Corporation, released a

1968
02:03:11,500 --> 02:03:15,200
curious game.
Who's this submit dissemination

1969
02:03:16,500 --> 02:03:22,100
among America's students that
fall was Swift and Furious?

1970
02:03:22,700 --> 02:03:25,600
So its popularity was ultimately
short-lived.

1971
02:03:26,400 --> 02:03:31,500
The game was kill switch on a
surface, it was a variant on a,

1972
02:03:31,500 --> 02:03:36,800
the mystery, or horror survival
gain, the precursor to the mist

1973
02:03:36,800 --> 02:03:38,700
and Silent get Hill.
Franchises.

1974
02:03:39,800 --> 02:03:43,800
The Narrative showed a
complexity for which carbonyl is

1975
02:03:43,800 --> 02:03:46,100
known.
As though, the graphics were

1976
02:03:46,500 --> 02:03:51,100
monochrome, vague gray, white
shapes against the black

1977
02:03:51,100 --> 02:03:56,700
background.
So am IDI versions of checks

1978
02:03:56,700 --> 02:04:03,100
folk songs played throughout
players could choose between two

1979
02:04:03,100 --> 02:04:09,200
avatars and invisible demon
named gassed or a visible human

1980
02:04:09,200 --> 02:04:11,200
woman.
Owen, name Porto.

1981
02:04:12,800 --> 02:04:18,800
L P0, R t0.
Now playing is gas was

1982
02:04:18,800 --> 02:04:22,200
considerably more difficult due
to his, you know, being

1983
02:04:22,200 --> 02:04:26,400
invisible and players, were
highly liable to reset, restart

1984
02:04:26,400 --> 02:04:31,300
the game, as a portal, after the
first level in, which it was

1985
02:04:31,300 --> 02:04:36,100
impossible to gauge jumps or
aim, however, gas was clearly,

1986
02:04:36,100 --> 02:04:40,900
the more powerful character he
had fire Brea's in a coal steam

1987
02:04:40,900 --> 02:04:47,100
attack but as it was above the
skill level of most players to

1988
02:04:47,100 --> 02:04:51,900
keep track of where to fire
breathing poison dispensing

1989
02:04:51,900 --> 02:04:56,200
invisible imp was on their
screen once a fire and steam had

1990
02:04:56,200 --> 02:05:03,200
run out Porto became more or
less default Now, let me stop it

1991
02:05:03,200 --> 02:05:07,200
right here and I'm going to say
that there's another story about

1992
02:05:07,200 --> 02:05:11,700
this kill, switch game.
Now, the kill switch is actually

1993
02:05:12,200 --> 02:05:17,600
you only get one playthrough.
You only get you only get one

1994
02:05:17,600 --> 02:05:22,300
playthrough, if you die during
this playthrough, then the game,

1995
02:05:22,600 --> 02:05:25,200
basically stops and resets
itself.

1996
02:05:25,200 --> 02:05:30,100
It just deletes itself from your
system, So, it was a computer

1997
02:05:30,100 --> 02:05:34,300
game and it just like if you
died or if you got to the end of

1998
02:05:34,300 --> 02:05:36,600
the game then it completely
deleted self.

1999
02:05:40,800 --> 02:05:44,600
Porto's signal earlier singular
ability was seemingly random

2000
02:05:44,600 --> 02:05:47,800
gross, she expanded and
contracted in size, Drew out the

2001
02:05:47,800 --> 02:05:50,600
game.
It Kansas Engineering grad claim

2002
02:05:50,600 --> 02:05:54,100
to have figured out the pattern
involved, but for reasons which

2003
02:05:54,100 --> 02:06:00,800
will become obvious, his work
was lost Portugal awakens in a

2004
02:06:00,800 --> 02:06:07,000
dark and awakens in the dark
with wounds in her elbows

2005
02:06:07,300 --> 02:06:11,600
confused, seeking a way out, she
ascends through the levels of a

2006
02:06:11,608 --> 02:06:15,800
coal mine, in which it is slowly
revealed that she was once an

2007
02:06:15,800 --> 02:06:20,400
employee, investigating is
collapse and beset, on all sides

2008
02:06:21,000 --> 02:06:28,100
by demons similar to gas as well
as this was dead Foreman.

2009
02:06:28,700 --> 02:06:34,600
Cole, golems and demonic
inspectors from the God.

2010
02:06:34,900 --> 02:06:40,500
So, vaak tick.
So badhak Corporation Who's boxy

2011
02:06:40,500 --> 02:06:44,900
bodies were closed and red, the
only color of the game.

2012
02:06:46,100 --> 02:06:47,900
Color in the game.
So everything else was

2013
02:06:47,900 --> 02:06:53,600
monochrome their environment.
So primitive becomes generally

2014
02:06:53,600 --> 02:06:58,800
uncanny as play progresses.
There are no bosses in any real

2015
02:06:58,800 --> 02:07:02,300
sense.
Portal must simply just move

2016
02:07:02,300 --> 02:07:06,100
physically through tunnels to
reach, subsequent levels or

2017
02:07:06,100 --> 02:07:09,200
size, varies.
Wildly through the inner level

2018
02:07:09,200 --> 02:07:14,100
spaces.
So the story that emerges

2019
02:07:14,700 --> 02:07:18,800
through portals discovery of
magnetic pipes, its files.

2020
02:07:19,100 --> 02:07:22,100
Mutated Factory workers who were
once our friends, and

2021
02:07:22,500 --> 02:07:28,300
deciphering and impressively
complex code AS robbed on a

2022
02:07:28,300 --> 02:07:32,300
Serie of iron axes players must
collect this.

2023
02:07:32,300 --> 02:07:36,500
Portion of the game was almost
laughably codeplex and defeated

2024
02:07:36,800 --> 02:07:41,400
many players until portal 881
posted.

2025
02:07:42,000 --> 02:07:47,800
The cipher in the Columbia BBS.
So I guess there was a there's a

2026
02:07:47,800 --> 02:07:50,500
hacker that I got into the
system and like this is how you

2027
02:07:50,500 --> 02:07:55,400
get through it.
Is that the foreman Under

2028
02:07:55,400 --> 02:07:59,500
Pressure to increase coal
production began to falsify

2029
02:07:59,500 --> 02:08:04,900
reports of malfunctions and
worker malfeasance in order to

2030
02:08:05,300 --> 02:08:11,100
excuse low output, which incited
the Silva Tech inspection

2031
02:08:12,600 --> 02:08:17,800
officials were dispatched, one
for each Miner and an

2032
02:08:17,800 --> 02:08:22,300
extraordinary story of torture
unfolds and fuzzy.

2033
02:08:22,400 --> 02:08:25,400
Z & Instinct Graphics of
red-coated man.

2034
02:08:25,400 --> 02:08:29,200
Standing over workers inserting
a small knives in the joints,

2035
02:08:29,400 --> 02:08:33,200
wherever production slowed.
Yeah.

2036
02:08:34,700 --> 02:08:37,200
I mean, it leave.
This is not a very subtle

2037
02:08:37,900 --> 02:08:42,700
critique of Soviet area era in
this Trio tactics.

2038
02:08:42,700 --> 02:08:47,600
And as the town of car, Vena
itself was devastated by the

2039
02:08:47,600 --> 02:08:52,300
departure of the coal industry,
more than one thesis has

2040
02:08:52,500 --> 02:08:58,500
Interpreted kill switch as a
political screed after after

2041
02:08:58,500 --> 02:09:03,800
solving the xcode Proto finds.
And assembles a tape recorder on

2042
02:09:03,800 --> 02:09:08,600
which a male voice tells her
that the fires of the Earth had

2043
02:09:08,600 --> 02:09:15,300
risen up in their defense,
excuse me, God and flowed into

2044
02:09:15,300 --> 02:09:20,100
the hearts of the decrepit, free
Evolution equipment, they use

2045
02:09:20,100 --> 02:09:24,900
and waking them to avenge the H,
it is generally assumed that the

2046
02:09:24,900 --> 02:09:30,000
fires of occurs in demons, like,
gassed coal, fumes, and gassy

2047
02:09:30,000 --> 02:09:32,900
bodies.
Inhabiting the old machines.

2048
02:09:32,900 --> 02:09:36,500
The machines themselves are so
big.

2049
02:09:36,500 --> 02:09:42,800
That the graphics alixe elect
God to only show two or three

2050
02:09:42,800 --> 02:09:47,200
gear teeth or conveyor belt
rather than the entire apparatus

2051
02:09:47,900 --> 02:09:51,600
their machines, drove the
inspectors mad, and they

2052
02:09:51,600 --> 02:09:54,800
disappeared into Do Caverns with
their knives.

2053
02:09:55,300 --> 02:10:00,400
Only to emerge to play portal.
Of course, the workers were

2054
02:10:00,400 --> 02:10:05,000
often crushed and mangled in the
onslaught of machines who were

2055
02:10:05,200 --> 02:10:08,500
neither graceful, nor
discriminating for to herself

2056
02:10:08,500 --> 02:10:13,800
was knocked into a deep Chasm by
a grief-stricken engine in her

2057
02:10:13,800 --> 02:10:20,100
fluctuating size if it is real.
And not imagine it is implied.

2058
02:10:20,100 --> 02:10:22,900
That the result of the poisonous
fumes and Healed here.

2059
02:10:22,900 --> 02:10:31,200
So I guess her size changing was
like, just the fumes in the in

2060
02:10:31,200 --> 02:10:37,200
the chasm.
So what follows is the most

2061
02:10:37,200 --> 02:10:40,600
cryptic and intuitive?
Part of the game, there's no

2062
02:10:40,600 --> 02:10:43,400
logical reason to proceed in the
correct way.

2063
02:10:43,600 --> 02:10:50,600
And again it was the user or
portal 881 who came to rescue,

2064
02:10:50,600 --> 02:10:54,600
but the of the fledging
fledgling Killswitch community

2065
02:10:55,600 --> 02:10:57,900
in the chamber.
Behind the tape, recorder the

2066
02:10:57,900 --> 02:11:00,400
tape recorder that portal has to
get the as a guy's name.

2067
02:11:00,600 --> 02:11:02,200
The guys, you know, recording
on.

2068
02:11:02,200 --> 02:11:08,600
It is a Great foreigners where
coal was once rendered into

2069
02:11:08,600 --> 02:11:12,800
Coke.
There are no clues as to what

2070
02:11:12,800 --> 02:11:16,400
she is attended to do in this
room players, attempted nearly

2071
02:11:16,400 --> 02:11:22,800
everything from emulating
herself to continuing to process

2072
02:11:22,800 --> 02:11:27,800
coal as the machine.
You know, has never risen up but

2073
02:11:27,800 --> 02:11:31,500
as user Proto 81, Hit Upon a
solution.

2074
02:11:32,600 --> 02:11:34,600
And posted it in the Columbia
boards.

2075
02:11:34,800 --> 02:11:41,200
If Porto, ingests overall Coke,
she will find her body under

2076
02:11:41,200 --> 02:11:46,300
control and can't go on to fight
her way out of the coal in the

2077
02:11:46,300 --> 02:11:51,000
final levels of the mine which
are impossible to her, you know,

2078
02:11:51,000 --> 02:11:54,900
in her giant State because you
know, she she changes shapes and

2079
02:11:54,900 --> 02:11:59,500
sizes.
Clutching the tape containing

2080
02:11:59,500 --> 02:12:03,400
this extraordinary story.
However, she crawls through the

2081
02:12:03,400 --> 02:12:05,600
final tunnel to emerge above
ground.

2082
02:12:06,100 --> 02:12:10,400
The screen goes suddenly white
kill switch by Design, deletes

2083
02:12:10,400 --> 02:12:13,200
itself upon player, completion
of the game.

2084
02:12:14,100 --> 02:12:17,300
It is not recoverable by any
means, all trace of it is

2085
02:12:17,300 --> 02:12:19,100
removed from the user's
computer.

2086
02:12:19,700 --> 02:12:24,600
The game cannot be copied for
all intents and purposes.

2087
02:12:24,700 --> 02:12:28,600
It exists only for those playing
it And then ceases to be

2088
02:12:28,700 --> 02:12:32,900
entirely.
One cannot replay it unlocking

2089
02:12:32,900 --> 02:12:35,400
further Secrets or narrative
Pathways.

2090
02:12:35,900 --> 02:12:38,800
One cannot allow a another to
play it.

2091
02:12:38,800 --> 02:12:43,800
And perhaps most importantly, it
is impossible to experience the

2092
02:12:43,800 --> 02:12:47,600
game all the way to the end as
both portal and gas.

2093
02:12:49,300 --> 02:12:53,600
So, predictably player outcry
was, you know, enormous several

2094
02:12:53,600 --> 02:12:57,300
routes to solve the problem
where pursued, with no real

2095
02:12:57,800 --> 02:13:02,700
efficiency, the first And most
common was to Simply, like by

2096
02:13:02,700 --> 02:13:07,700
more copies of the game, but the
Corvina group, they release only

2097
02:13:07,700 --> 02:13:11,100
like five thousand copies and
refuse to press further.

2098
02:13:11,100 --> 02:13:13,700
Her addition.
So they're like, now this is all

2099
02:13:13,700 --> 02:13:19,900
we're making of this game.
Kill switch was designed to be a

2100
02:13:19,900 --> 02:13:23,400
unique, playing experience like
reality.

2101
02:13:23,900 --> 02:13:28,500
It is unrepeatable on
retrievable and in logical.

2102
02:13:29,600 --> 02:13:35,600
One might even say ineffable,
death is final, death is

2103
02:13:35,600 --> 02:13:39,300
complete.
The fate of poor told in her

2104
02:13:39,300 --> 02:13:43,600
beloved guests are as unknowable
as our own.

2105
02:13:44,700 --> 02:13:49,200
It is the desire of the car
being a corporation that this be

2106
02:13:49,200 --> 02:13:54,700
so and we ask our customers to
respect that desire rest assured

2107
02:13:54,700 --> 02:13:59,100
car Veena will continue to
provide the highest quality

2108
02:13:59,100 --> 02:14:02,200
games to West.
And that kill switch is merely

2109
02:14:02,700 --> 02:14:06,300
one among our Many Wonders and
that's a quote for from the

2110
02:14:06,308 --> 02:14:11,800
Corvina Corporation.
So of course, this is not have

2111
02:14:11,800 --> 02:14:15,900
the intended effect.
The world, the word.

2112
02:14:17,500 --> 02:14:22,600
Beloved Pete.
Everyone's interest you know

2113
02:14:22,600 --> 02:14:26,700
when they said portal in her
beloved guests, gasp was

2114
02:14:26,700 --> 02:14:31,400
supposed to be a demon gas is
not presented in any portion of

2115
02:14:31,400 --> 02:14:35,800
portals narrative.
They were playing separately a

2116
02:14:35,800 --> 02:14:41,200
rush to find the remaining
copies of the game ensued with

2117
02:14:41,200 --> 02:14:43,700
the tent of playing as gas and
discovering.

2118
02:14:43,700 --> 02:14:47,900
The meaning of carbine has
cryptic word, the most Wheeler Z

2119
02:14:47,900 --> 02:14:51,200
was a gasp when at some point
become the fumes inhaled by

2120
02:14:51,200 --> 02:14:56,900
portal changing her size and
beginning her Adventure, some

2121
02:14:56,900 --> 02:15:01,200
salt that this was wishful
thinking in that if only gas

2122
02:15:01,300 --> 02:15:05,600
early levels were passable, one
was somehow be able to play as

2123
02:15:05,600 --> 02:15:09,700
both simultaneously.
However by the time by this

2124
02:15:09,700 --> 02:15:13,600
time, no further copies appeared
to be available in retail

2125
02:15:13,600 --> 02:15:18,700
outlets Players who had yet, had
not yet.

2126
02:15:18,700 --> 02:15:22,400
Completed the game attempt to
gas levels frequently but the

2127
02:15:22,400 --> 02:15:28,600
difficulty in actual actual
playing like this - I cannot wer

2128
02:15:28,600 --> 02:15:33,900
say words today.
Playing this big nag, what does

2129
02:15:33,900 --> 02:15:35,300
that mean?
It.

2130
02:15:35,300 --> 02:15:40,700
No in, it can nag.
If he can't do it, I can't do it

2131
02:15:43,800 --> 02:15:48,300
in.
Magnetic I can't I can't type

2132
02:15:48,300 --> 02:15:54,100
format it because that's the
word enigmatic Avatar.

2133
02:15:54,200 --> 02:15:57,300
My God.
Brittany, I am struggling over

2134
02:15:57,300 --> 02:16:05,500
here.
Oh God, and no player has ever

2135
02:16:05,500 --> 02:16:09,000
claimed to have finished a game
as gas one by one tool or

2136
02:16:10,800 --> 02:16:14,100
portals loss.
Unearthly worldcruise them back

2137
02:16:14,100 --> 02:16:16,800
to her.
One by one, they were compelled

2138
02:16:16,800 --> 02:16:22,000
towards the finality of the vast
white screen to find any copy

2139
02:16:22,000 --> 02:16:26,400
usable.
Today is an almost unfathomably

2140
02:16:26,400 --> 02:16:32,299
rare occurrence, he still
shrink-wrap, copy was sold at an

2141
02:16:32,299 --> 02:16:38,100
auction in 2005 for goddamn
seven hundred thousand dollars.

2142
02:16:40,799 --> 02:16:42,799
I'm just going to round it up,
seven hundred thousand dollars

2143
02:16:43,100 --> 02:16:51,799
to somebody in Tokyo.
Because it was Yamamoto it was

2144
02:16:51,799 --> 02:16:56,299
entirely past is probably
possible that your motives has

2145
02:16:56,400 --> 02:16:59,700
the last from Lightman remaining
copy of the game knowing this,

2146
02:16:59,700 --> 02:17:05,200
you know, Moto had intended to
open his play to all enthusiasts

2147
02:17:05,600 --> 02:17:07,900
filming and uploading this
process.

2148
02:17:07,900 --> 02:17:11,900
You know how YouTubers do and
our haunted games.

2149
02:17:12,100 --> 02:17:17,100
However, to date the only film
which had surfaces which had

2150
02:17:17,200 --> 02:17:23,799
Just is in 1 minute and 45
second clip of a Haggard, you

2151
02:17:23,799 --> 02:17:28,200
Modo at his computer.
So Avatar selection screen is

2152
02:17:28,200 --> 02:17:33,799
visible over his right shoulder
and he's seen crying.

2153
02:17:36,100 --> 02:17:37,500
And that is the end of the
story.

2154
02:17:38,299 --> 02:17:40,700
So there's no, there's no real
end of the story apparently.

2155
02:17:40,799 --> 02:17:46,200
So the Sun is up.
There's a story about, you know,

2156
02:17:46,200 --> 02:17:50,000
you can play two players, one is
a demon, the other ones a girl,

2157
02:17:50,600 --> 02:17:55,299
she Hills some vapor and she can
change your shape and size.

2158
02:17:55,299 --> 02:17:58,100
She wakes up in this coal.
Mine, and she has to find a way

2159
02:17:58,100 --> 02:18:00,100
out of there.
And apparently she used to work

2160
02:18:00,100 --> 02:18:05,200
there as well.
The demon gas is what I'm

2161
02:18:05,200 --> 02:18:11,100
assuming, he's supposed to be
some type of representation of

2162
02:18:11,100 --> 02:18:15,000
the coal fumes.
Or you know what I mean?

2163
02:18:15,400 --> 02:18:18,600
Okay.
So, as soon as she inhales it,

2164
02:18:18,600 --> 02:18:23,100
then she he kind of like
controls her body but he can't

2165
02:18:23,100 --> 02:18:27,400
use his powers.
He can only use Whatever to make

2166
02:18:27,400 --> 02:18:33,799
her bigger small, but yeah, it
was just, it's just weird

2167
02:18:34,100 --> 02:18:37,299
because people, like, as soon as
they the, the carbine

2168
02:18:37,299 --> 02:18:40,600
incorporation, they're like,
yeah, her beloved gas, so

2169
02:18:40,600 --> 02:18:42,299
they're like, oh, so they knew
each other.

2170
02:18:42,799 --> 02:18:45,700
So, what's going on with the
story?

2171
02:18:45,700 --> 02:18:48,299
And they wouldn't, you know,
they wouldn't go any further on.

2172
02:18:48,299 --> 02:18:58,299
It is just Very weird game that
may or may not have come out and

2173
02:18:58,299 --> 02:19:00,500
how it exists?
Yes.

2174
02:19:01,799 --> 02:19:05,900
Yes, somebody made it.
If I go onto YouTube right now

2175
02:19:05,900 --> 02:19:08,900
I'll fine.
Oh absolutely version based off

2176
02:19:08,900 --> 02:19:12,900
of the story.
So there are screenshots of this

2177
02:19:12,900 --> 02:19:16,500
game.
And it shows you yet.

2178
02:19:16,500 --> 02:19:18,799
No, there's a game.
There's so many made a fan made

2179
02:19:18,799 --> 02:19:24,100
game of this and it shows you
screenshots of the levels that

2180
02:19:24,100 --> 02:19:28,100
you can take as portal or
gassed.

2181
02:19:28,400 --> 02:19:31,500
And there's some, some of them
are, you know, impassable.

2182
02:19:31,500 --> 02:19:37,200
Some of them or passable, And I
wish I could just send you this

2183
02:19:37,200 --> 02:19:42,200
link.
But as I can't send you pictures

2184
02:19:42,200 --> 02:19:50,200
of this goddamn it.
But anyway, it's it's a, it's

2185
02:19:50,200 --> 02:19:57,300
very, it was very interesting
because I guess it was a it was

2186
02:19:57,300 --> 02:20:00,600
made as a what was it like?
What's that word?

2187
02:20:00,600 --> 02:20:07,300
Like a sleep?
No, no Creepypasta.

2188
02:20:08,300 --> 02:20:12,300
Like the story like the game is
an allegory for like coal mining

2189
02:20:12,300 --> 02:20:15,100
in this, in this country.
Let me check.

2190
02:20:17,200 --> 02:20:23,100
Yeah gotcha and how you know,
coal mining destroyed you know

2191
02:20:23,100 --> 02:20:26,200
Czech Republic.
This town and a Czech Republic.

2192
02:20:26,200 --> 02:20:29,300
In this this car being a
corporation made his game about

2193
02:20:29,300 --> 02:20:32,100
that.
And they wanted to bring late to

2194
02:20:32,100 --> 02:20:37,100
that but yeah, it's it was it's
an interesting listen for

2195
02:20:37,200 --> 02:20:39,900
somebody who actually does
Creepypasta narrations and I

2196
02:20:39,900 --> 02:20:42,600
can't do them really.
Well, I'm sorry, but thank you

2197
02:20:42,600 --> 02:20:45,100
for listening.
It's going to be read that

2198
02:20:45,100 --> 02:20:47,500
story.
It's all good.

2199
02:20:47,900 --> 02:20:50,800
Thanks for all the people who
stay to the very end.

2200
02:20:51,100 --> 02:20:56,000
Thank you so much.
Remembering that wears only

2201
02:20:56,000 --> 02:20:58,900
about a week and a half left
until the thick dense disappear

2202
02:20:58,900 --> 02:21:02,200
and then there's no more a squat
And I just wanted to say thank

2203
02:21:02,200 --> 02:21:04,500
you again to all of our patreon
supporters.

2204
02:21:05,100 --> 02:21:08,300
It's obviously patreon.com slash
one Killers, get caught and I

2205
02:21:08,308 --> 02:21:11,500
just wanted to say thank you to.
We actually have to jamila's who

2206
02:21:11,500 --> 02:21:13,500
follow us and started in
December of twenty.

2207
02:21:13,500 --> 02:21:18,200
Twenty-One Whitley who started
in December, 20 21 Jessica in

2208
02:21:18,200 --> 02:21:22,300
November as well as Gina and
November Maggie who started

2209
02:21:22,300 --> 02:21:26,800
subscribing and October and our
oldest subscriber, who still

2210
02:21:26,800 --> 02:21:30,100
listens to us.
Lola Rose, thank you so much.

2211
02:21:30,600 --> 02:21:33,900
And thanks for being part of
this journey and helping us

2212
02:21:33,900 --> 02:21:39,400
continue to make awesome things.
Yeah, we'll see you next week

2213
02:21:39,500 --> 02:21:43,900
and as a surprise it's a
big-name know that I will be

2214
02:21:43,900 --> 02:21:51,000
covering nice, guys.
Have a good weekend.