The Covid Episode: Robert Durst and The Roanoke Colony

0:30 Hey, everybody. It's your color country. My name is Brittany. Ransom money is Brian Joiner, and welcome to a special covid episode when Killers get caught. So, if you are new here, this is not at all how we normally do things, but I got covid. And I have been asleep for like 10 days. It's been a long, a long covid, and We're going to split this up into me doing a slightly smaller session because I cannot talk for very long. And Brian has taken up the mantle today to do a slightly longer session. But in general, when Killers, get caught is normally a three segments podcast.

1:19 Meant to give you a little light snack, as we discussed a True Crime Story that resonated with us in the world, this week, then I would normally do a longer Deep dive. Into a Killers childhood life methodology and how they got caught and Brian finishes us off with a paranormal palate cleanser today. You're going to get just a small nugget of True Crime discussion about something. That is pretty big that happened in the world and then a much bigger and session. So I hope you'll stay. And listen, Brian works really hard to kind of pick up the slack here for me because I've been sick for a while now.

1:59 And before we get into the episode just another reminder, thank you so much to all the people who purchase things from one Killers, get caught dot shop, it's so awesome. You guys should be getting your stuff soon and I'm really excited to see it. I've sent out, thank you messages obviously. I haven't been able to do it since I've been under the weather but there's so many fun things. Yeah, you'll get some from me. He instead of Brittany. So And now, our beanies there was, will not be on Spotify or YouTube this week because I cannot be on camera, I look awful, but a lot of people have been really into our fictive Mothman merch, and it's so exciting. It's one of my favorites, actually, and our mug, and the knees.

2:50 So, again, thank you so much for supporting us and if you are interested in any marriage, it's when Killers get caught dot shop, so my inspiration for this week was our this week in True Crime segment because if you're listening to this right now, A certain suspected serial killer is dead and his name is Robert Durst a very wealthy heir to a New York City. Conglomerate. I don't even know what that had to describe it other than like this is big, big money.

3:30 And he I mean, he's been in trouble since the 80s and a lot of people believe that he should have been put in prison for a very long time but he was able to avoid it. I'm going to try and give you a little bit of a short snapshot of who he was his born in 1943, he kind of carved out for himself a reputation. Of being attached to less than Savory characters, which isn't all that uncommon in New York, big, money, 40s, 50s 60s. I mean, we're talking about the era when the mafia was a really big deal. I mean, it was still a thing in 1982, His Wife disappeared and then in 2000, his friend. Susan Berman.

4:19 Who was his Alibi for Kathleen's disappearance? Died. And then a year later when he was in Texas for some bizarre reason, he said he accidentally killed his next door neighbor and then dismember the body. How do you accidentally do the head? He said, he accidentally shot him and then rather than tell people he proceeded to dismember the body. Oh. Okay. Into more of those details in a little bit so he got acquitted of that murder. And then in 2015, HBO the documentary called the Jinx, the life, and death of Robert Durst.

5:01 And in that documentary he admitted to killing everybody. Okay? I don't know if he thought that like there was a time period that have passed or something, all right. Yeah but then he went to jail for Susan Berman's murder and then literally October. Yeah, they got him for Kathleen but we're gonna we're not we're not there yet. So early life. Like I said, April 12 1943, New York City Bernice and Seymour Durst. His grandfather was from Austria and 19 and came here in 1902. The guy had nothing and like real. Like honestly his grandfather is the actual, like American Dream came here with nothing pulled himself up by his bootstraps. He actually did that by 1915.

5:54 The grandfather had saved up enough. if money to buy a property, And so then in 1927, he created the Durst organization Incorporated and that became this massive existed Mega real estate company. That is just got a lot of money. I wouldn't try and explain the the breadth of this they're worth 8.1 billion dollars. Billion billion dollars. Yeah. So Robert's father Seymour carried on the business after his dad died in 1950.

6:37 Their mom fell from a roof of her home and die and that was the first like tragedy and Roberts life. Now newspaper says that she was on medication that she was taking for asthma and she got disoriented and fell off the roof but obviously there's lots of suspicions there. Was it suicide or was it murder? You don't know. He graduated from Scarsdale High School moved to Pennsylvania, just down the road and went to Lehigh University. Hey yeah, business and economics and so with that degree, 1965 he heads West to go become a doctor at UCLA, he meets his friend, Susan, Berman. She's the daughter of a Las Vegas mobster and that would begin his connection to unsavory characters. He drops out of UCLA.

7:39 Would you say that was going to say? Like I don't know how people can get connected with these kinds of people but somehow they find friends in real life. I think when you are dealing with, like high volumes of Unnie. It's an inevitable crossover. Whether your money is legit or not. They are also moving High quantities of money, true. And then there becomes probably comment like you go to clubs together. Things like that they're becomes conversations of, well, I have a lot of money, a new blood money, can we work together and make more money? Yeah, you know because the thing is if somebody who is well a perfect example would be the art World in a least, the US, I don't know about globally, but I know in the US the fine art community is a way that people who are doing unsavory things absolutely launder money. They take money that they have gotten through legal means they decide that a particular artist is the new, you know, Muse the on G do and they buy this kids like they might buy. This person's art for like five million dollars, ten million dollars, crazy amounts of money.

8:50 And really what they're doing is now it's a legal, it's legally in the system, that's a legal purchase. And then it gets swapped between people sometimes between the same people back and forth. Hmm. Interesting. It's all sorts of sorted horrible thing. That's why honestly, I believe there's so much crime in the art industry to. It's not just because these Pieces cost so much money. I think it's because there's so many people involved in it. Who are on the criminal side because there's so much art being stolen. All over the world all the time but that's another day. I'm a big fan of heist so I know too much about this anyway, remember I told you he was studying to be a doctor and UCLA drops out in 1969, kind of right before he was going to be done. But he went back to New York, he met, who he would Mary Kathleen, McCormick, she was a dental hygienist 1971, they move in, get married in 73.

9:56 Seems happy. Everything's doing great except for the fact that Durst is possessive and abusive. And then she just disappears in 82. He's questioned police. Do their best, and it's just gone. 1990 he officially gets a divorce moves in with a new girlfriend. That becomes a second wife. He keeps working for a family business, totally. Just He becomes kind of a jerk to his family and he his siblings don't want to talk to him anymore. So he spends most of the 90s just kind of like Around America. They're not quite sure what he's doing. Is it legal?

10:44 Probably not. And he kind of reappears in 95 when his dad dies in 2000. Westchester County, New York, district attorney bring up Kathleen's disappearance ago and they intended to interview. A bunch of different people who were a part of it and obviously, Susan Berman was his alibi. Susan, same here. Susan's found shot dead in her home in LA. While this is going on, Robert Durst is in Texas. Pretending to be a mute woman.

11:36 Trying to hide. The jet. He's like trying to be like an old lady. the only problem is, he gets himself back in the spotlight because He's the his neighbor like literally crossed the hall from him and apartment complex is shot and then chopped up and dumped in a fat and a nearby Bay near Galveston. And he's obviously the number one suspect because he's as weirdo across the hall from him. So it takes like a while to find him and bring him in and 2003.

12:18 He testifies that the to, he shot him when the two were struggling for control over a gun. And I distinctly, remember this case, because I remember being in high school and I remember my teacher, telling me that Texas was just different And he said that these two old guys had fought over gun. One of them had gotten shot. The other guy, had this headed, chopped him up and that was this case. He gets acquitted though. He said he was in a panic. I don't buy that but okay.

12:58 Well after he's he go, he goes to jail for like a much smaller offense, you know, nothing important, he gets released and he sells his whole stake in the family business, which is a pretty big deal. But then again, like I said, his family really wasn't vibing with him at that point. Our he got like some petty crimes. I mean, one of my favorite ones was that, let's see, 2014. He was in a drugstore in CVS and he peed on a rack of candy. Another time he was in Pennsylvania at a Wegmans and he stole a sandwich when there was thirty-seven thousand dollars in his car in cash. Why, why don't you just use the money, okay? Okay, so either way, so, you know, since your crime is what it is director, Andrew jarecki was just like this is a good story.

14:01 This guy, why? Old. So he directs and co-writes the Jinx, the life, and death of Robert Durst, six parts, loads of interviews with everybody who ever knew him. And of course he doesn't interview in that one where he says I killed them all. I wrote it down. It was like the exact quote. It was wild students told, like total nut? He seems like it. He looks like it. Yeah, yeah, I feel it. Yeah, ha ha.

14:43 He looks like someone who did not associate with his family at all. He's like the grumpy old Miser. Well with that. With some of the evidence that shown in the Jinx, and the fact that he did early says, like all of them, kill them all. The authorities are like, alright, we are looking back at this again. March 14th 2015, right before the last episode because it was like a six-week airing right before the last episode was released. He gets arrested in New Orleans for killing Berman. They also charged him with possessing a firearm because he doesn't have a license to do that and then we see I'm not. He also got hit with a wrongful death lawsuit, by his first wife's family, who to this day are like, They never let up about finding him remember 2016.

15:47 He appears in Los Angeles Court to defend themselves against killing Kathy Berman and he says, like I want to say here. Now, I am not guilty. They have a bunch of hearings It gets postponed all the way to April of 2018. 30. And finally in 2017, they officially declare Kathleen Durst at. Her family ramps, it up into high gear. They file even filing a lawsuit against his second wife. Deborah, they fell another lawsuit requiring like documents that Frederick's. Had to be released like, all sorts of stuff.

16:28 In fact, they make a movie about her on Lifetime called The Lost wife of Robert Durst that comes out, November 2017. And that's we, there's a book called The Deadly Secret. The strange disappearance of Kathie Durst. 2002. Wild enough Katharine. McPhee place, his wife. so, all of this just ramps up to the fact that Gosh, sorry. I have like so many things over. Now, you're good. So, he gets convicted of Kathy and she go to prison. and they so he's in prison and and L.a. now but New York is like, we're gonna push this. So really nothing happens in regards to him. He's in jail.

17:28 Hmm. And then he gets arrested for cat for his Kathleen, Durst death. And they bring them over New York and like the pictures are insane here. Like he's wearing a mask in a wheelchair. He's 77 years old at this point. Like, New York did not care. They wanted this man. He was looking rough. Yeah, yeah, back to got covid. Right after he was convicted of Kathleen's death. On October. look at over twenty, second, twenty Twenty-One and He pretty much had a bad time from that point on a lot of health issues, but eventually they got him for everything, the LA trial in March of 2024 pathy. Berman and then owner, Kathy Berman, sorry, Cathy is Durst for Berman and like I said, Kathleen's family. Finally got some sort of I did.

18:51 Yeah, exact over 19. 20 21. He finally. Finally, I went down for feeling his first wife, but he got covid right after and he was just pretty much struggling non-stop after that he's hospitalized. He was sentenced to life in prison for killing his wife. And according to his attorney chip Louis, he was being transported to a hospital to undergo testing. When he went into cardiac arrest. On January. 10th was like 22. He's like yesterday. Oh God.

19:33 He died yesterday. 70 years old. So he didn't get, I guess you didn't say he was in prison that long, but there was some level of Justice, you know. I'm not a wild. Yeah, it's a while. I get a whole lobster, there's even more weird stuff like all the petty crimes that he was doing even though he had all this. Yeah. I just love, I just love that. I'm like, really, he was in a Wegmans like you just. Yeah, like you just did all this stuff for what just for fun or something. And the thing was he was wanted at that point. So he did not give a fuck.

20:13 Yeah, like fuck it. That was in like, I'm in 2001. I would have been like, just going in high school. Yeah. And like when I say, I mean, it was Lehigh. Valley was a Bethlehem Wegmans. Oh damn. Okay. Like real the app work away and like, what a weird situation but you know, I guess everybody gets their final, uh, Just Desserts. Yeah, and yeah so I'm happy that her family got some semblance of Justice, you know, and the end and I listen as someone who has covid right now, I know he wasn't having a good time.

21:05 We at least got his last couple of months were tough. They put him on a ventilator a couple of times oof, so, I know he was feeling bad. At least we could say that. that's all I got for you short, very truncated, look into Robert durst's life and death. Okay, very good, very good. Okay. What is on the is it paranormal is a Cryptid. What we do today?

21:49 It's neither. Oh, you guys are getting a history lesson today, sorry. Okay. Well actually it's a little. Okay, it's strange. It's a strange story. That's why as y la like paranoid people. They talk about it a lot like everybody talks about a lot. So, hmm. Consider, if you will, you are a man, you're a settlor from England in charge of one of the first attempt at settlements. In the Americas. You leave your settlement to go back to England for supplies, but circumstances didn't allow for you to return about three years later when you return, your family and friends are missing the colonies desert it.

22:36 And the only sign of a clue is Is etched into a nearby tree reading Crow. Oh, yeah, cr0, this is one of the biggest unsolved. Things this yet and full word Croatoan is written on a wooden stake in front of the colony. You never hear from your family again, and disappearance of your Colony will be one of America's oldest Unsolved Mysteries. This is the Lost Colony of Roanoke. So yeah, this I guess it is going to be like a history lesson for you guys, but it's like, it's a mystery.

23:24 It's like one of the biggest mysteries, like no one knows, what the hell happened here. I mean, they're from what I understand, people don't even know what color. Well, we get into that. Yeah. So Croatoan is actually one of the islands that At where that's it was by Roanoke Island. So yeah. Yeah, they were. This is like in history books. The Lost column? Yeah, yeah. So I'm sorry. I feel bad for dude, here. Illegitimate like was gone for a while.

24:06 Brittany. We're going to get into his his struggle because all right. This would be an struggle that you get back to his people. All right. Let's do it. History of the Lost Colony of Roanoke. Okay, so this man, his name was John White, of course. But before we get into John White's story well the whitest white name you could ever get before going to John White's, Roanoke story. Had to begin with the very first Roanoke colony.

24:48 That was attempted. So this is Hope. Yes. So it's the same Colony, but it's there was like a first attempt at making this colony and then later on, like, I think a year or so later, a second attempt was made to re-establish it ouchies. Yeah, yeah let me know in the pilgrims. Yeah, so it's just the second attempt wasn't even supposed to be at Roanoke Island is supposed to be along the Chesapeake Bay. That's a nice area. Yeah, because I'll get into that horse. Yeah, but yeah, the Second Step.

25:36 Wasn't he supposed to be Roanoke Island and circumstances made them end up at Roanoke Island? Which I will talk about that too. Which is fucking insane. Okay, so this whole thing this whole like I guess establishing like a colony in the Americas was part of Sir Walter Raley's attempt to make the first like English settlement in the North. Erica. I mean he was successful. Do we have a Raleigh North Carolina? Right. Yeah. So either way, I know there's City down there named after that dude. Like there's there's a place.

26:18 Oh goodness, I'm helping jump ahead but there's a place called well that was supposed to be named the City of Raleigh that John White was supposed to establish on his way to on his way back to the Americas. But I didn't. Well, he wasn't able to circumstances, do not allow them to do that. Well, um, failure. This is like this this whole thing I want to tell you right now is just to leave it to the good part, okay. So this all begins in 1853 where does idea is just, you know, established, you know, John, I'm not John Walter Reilly, he's like, okay, this is what we're going to do.

27:02 But the Colony of Roanoke wasn't officially found it until like 1585. So and 1584 two ships and make their way to Rhode Island, which is located inside the Outer Banks. So if you're like from Virginia and Virginia area, Outer Banks, just like a group of islands. It's like this that's a string of Border Islands. I'm not sure there for vacation. Yes, yes. When they arise are greeted by the indigenous, people of the, you know, the island and, you know, those are all friendly, yukking it up and whatnot. So these two ships were there to scout out the area for colonies to build, of course.

27:59 And they spent about a month there and returned to England then. So this, yeah, this soda two ships that were just sent there. They were just like a scouting. On a scouting Mission. Just yeah, just to get information about the area. So these people and take their land, I don't think that was there. That was their plan as of right now. I mean yeah. So who's in charge of this? Of course, Sir Walter Reilly. He wasn't night it until he returned. So like during this Exodus scouting Mission, he was just you know Walter Reilly and then he was knighted when they returned back to England.

28:52 Good Deeds of finding stuff for finding stuff. Yeah, you know, he goes to the Queen, Elizabeth the First and he's all like, you know, I got this this bomb a spot for us like the planner Our first like a feet in this cutting his country, right? And she's like, I bet. So what happens is they heat, Riley. He plan on making like a settlement like a colony. And like the outer banks are somewhere by the Outer Banks, like one of the islands inside the Outer Banks, because of, I guess, a strategic strategic type of military thing And I'm not trying to get too into it because I don't really understand it. But apparently, we're Roanoke Island is inside the outer side to Outer Banks.

29:44 It's it's like there's easy passage to like the sea and then I guess if like Spanish ships were to like sale by the outer banks by Roanoke Island, they'd be able to like Ambush them from inside the Outer Banks. So Sir Walter Reilly is like, I want this area we're going to have to re like we had to set up something here so we can like if Spanish or is the Spanish are trying to like make your way to England will be able to spot them from like this area right here. So, Yeah, and they decide to name this area Virginia because the queen was a virgin apparently, but so was, I was like what I'm all about. Yeah, when I wrote this, when I wrote this down, I was like You, but I'm still people are still skeptical. I'm sorry.

31:01 Anyway, boom. Roasted anyway. So if we have seven, okay, go ahead like the Virgin Queen. Yes, yes. I'm trying to remember why though. But why was she the Virgin Queen? I don't know that. It looks really true that it just make, did you? Oh oh oh oh she never got married. Oh, so she became Queen and she never took a husband. Well, listen, nobody was asking about what was going on in the Queen of England. But as far as the people were concerned, since she never formally got married, she was a virgin forever. Okay?

31:52 Okay, whatever. They say, whatever. Whatever, I'm not here to judge, I did not Samuel judge. I, you know what? Oh god. Mmm. Okay. Anyway. So Fleet of seven ships makes her way from England in 1585, So they had enough Provisions to last at least a year. So the ships were loaded with about 600 men, not sure how it is now, but the Waters of the Outer Banks, we're pretty bad. So choppy is yeah.

32:40 Okay. So it's still terrible. Even what's up? I feel like most of the Atlantic Ocean. Like, I don't know, anywhere, really? It's California. Have like nice gentle beaches because I've never known any my life. Ya know what Jerry that will wear South Carolina, Virginia. What are called?

33:22 Yeah, it's still fun. But like you you feel the pull when you're in the water it like it's pulling you down oh you're not down but like pulling you down stream. Yeah is definitely trying to get you home. So as soon as the flagship its name the tiger, it's about sort of tiger is about to pass through. You know that the Outer Banks hits the Shoal And for anyway, doesn't know what a show is. It's like a submerged see Bank in shallow water. So they hit like this. This and it's a sandbank not to see make my bad this typo. It's a sandbank. So as soon as it hits like this, they hit like the shell. Yeah.

34:08 Of the continent. Yeah. Yes. And the whole of the ship is ruptured and this is the flagship that is hit. So, all those are Provisions, are on his flagship. Most of the provisions are ruined. They're spoiled thanks to the seawater. So yeah, so they couldn't save all the revisions at all. Like they like most of their stuff was gone in. The flagship was almost destroyed. They had like the flagship had to sit there for repairs for a while this but so what their food gone?

34:55 This of course, wasn't going to be enough for For about 600 men to live off for about a year. So yeah, that's the it's it was a lot of people. So they reduced their numbers to about 100 men. And this one, these 100 men would stay behind and they would be governed by certain not sir. A man named Ralph Lee Ralph Lane, God, can't talk and they were only supposed to say they were only supposed to, like, be waiting there for like, a couple months because there was supposed to be a Supply ship, that was supposed to come like a couple months later. Yeah, we'll get into that later.

35:50 Okay. Yeah. So yeah, there's there's, there's supposed to be Supply ship. So they get to Roanoke Island and they begin building this colony And they, you know, they got the judges in his people's permission to like build his colony in this area. I believe. I'm not going to say it right, but it's cecal 10. Just like, oh, tens, SEC otan. Yeah.

36:38 Yeah, I know, they're Algonquin. But yes, yes they are. So yeah, they got their approval. So this is like that was like the main colony of the rain I guess tribe on Roanoke. So Of course, they ran out of supplies and they had to rely on the psycho attends. Generosity bless your heart, that you don't do, you have to know all the other villages in that area. I there's only like one other one, but that's about it, okay? Cuz there's a couple of other indigenous tribes in that area that are not yet. Know, Chesapeake, is also another one. I mean, We saw the name.

37:27 There's a couple other than our real intense. He had early 45. I saw it. I was like, I'm not reading those it because I'm not gonna be able to pronounce those a quagga stock. Probably looks like, what the hell? But you know, they didn't have much to spare to these these colonists either because they had their own people to feed. So I'm like, we know what it's like on the East Coast.

38:08 These people. Don't. Yeah, exactly. So, a lot of the English men that came, you know, with this. The ships and they heard Tales of like gold and copper and area. So so that so they're there to, you know, do some exploring. They were also you know, doing research on the indigenous tribes as well. This was until something strange started to happen. Now stop me if you've heard this one before, okay? Okay every time the English word visit a village, a lot of the editions people started getting sick and dying just falling dead.

39:04 Yeah, at this time, the people of the village, didn't know of air borne illnesses. Mrs. So they thought they knew of their own illnesses. Just yeah. When you travel now exactly prepared, be ready to get very sick. Yeah. They didn't they didn't know I guess English don't assist. So they thought the English were basically killing him from like a distance with like some type of magic. Yeah. This, of course.

39:46 I mean, it's close its close. They were close. Yes, of course. It was from a distance. Yeah. If it was some type of, I mean, the same thing that we're killing the English too. Yeah. And we're talking about, you know, like the Trail of Tears giving people swap off think like smallpox blankets no no they didn't have them. Like the English didn't have the medicine to take care of themselves so they were also dying from these days. Yeah, it's not like they weren't doing it on purpose. Not this time, not this time. No, they definitely realize how to weaponize European illnesses against indigenous people but at this point in history this is just pure old ignorance.

40:33 Yep. And not. Using that, when you have two different ecosystems, interacting the British, you're gonna take on illnesses, they've never had before, and so we're second to try it. You know. But no. Absolutely. I would have been like nah. Nah, nah. Y'all can't come around here. No more. So this of course was the spread of an epidemic brought on by like we said, the English It was either it was either smallpox or the flu that was reading. Yeah, yeah. So here's a mr.

41:16 Parker Okay, so One of the one of the leaders, his name was when Gana, when Gina, when the Gana, lagina, whatever. So he gets really sick, right? And as people, they, of course, they can't treat him because they don't know what the hell this is. So, you know, he asked to English to pray for him. Lady, come and pray for him and he recovers Yay. Yeah, yeah, right. So he goes he's like he goes like your parent, your prayers.

41:59 They healed me. How about you English? Men, go to the other tribes and other people like the other Villages around here. That are affected with this illness and go praise are as well this of course did not work. It actually kind of like exacerbated his situation causing the illness has spread even more killing weapon. They created a super spreader. Thank you, super spreader event unintentionally.

42:40 Hmm, yes, he did. I also the Harvest wasn't faring very well. I want to say, due to the epidemic that was going on right there, which meant very little food to be like to share. so at this time, When im going to say when Jenna and that's his name, that's his name for now, when Jenna whatever and in Lane, they weren't really seeing eye to eye at this point. Both were like kind of suspicious of the others. And like, just, I was so I got two sources from this one from Wikipedia.

43:30 The other one will from a YouTuber I will I will look his name up, I forget what it is, but I read I do. look at it and so, two different conflicting things, but it kind of like It's kind of like a common theme in it. So it seems like at this time when Jenna, he was like he was tired of like the English and stuff like that. He was like all right, you know what, we don't have enough food for you guys. We try to take care of our own people. Like we had this illness that's going on, everybody's dying. Like we got to take care of our own right now. and, so I guess at this time Lane was like okay well I'm going to go look for other Provisions you know, other Elsewhere. So that would be before they attacked the colony. Because I remember that yesterday. Yes, yes, this is before gay.

44:33 Like I remember that part. That was, we're just gonna steal it now part of History. Yeah. So I guess when gent when Gina he sorry excuse me he's you know, he's tired. So When Lena is gone, he's like making his fans of just like, you know. So what we're going to do is what I move Inland off this island to another tribe and like live with them for winter because like, we don't have enough supplies for our people and we're just going to leave these English people to do whatever the hell they're going to do and fuck them for the winter for right now. They can like they can start for all I care. Yes. and for people who don't under like understand cuz Algonquin territories stretched.

45:33 Halfway like down the east coast of the Americas all the way up into Canada. This was a major targets, but it's like a nation with smaller, little tribes. Yes. And so, I wouldn't have been that crazy for them to reach out to another Ally, essentially. I mean, this was essentially, A sort of mini, like, I'm gonna call it military because of what the conversation is a modern times, but it's like, oh, shoot. Yeah. It was like a cooperate, a Cooperative like connective nation of multiple tribes. And so, it wouldn't have been that crazy for them to go to a neighboring tribe and be like, listen, we had a terrible, you know, Harvest Help us.

46:23 Yes, please. Yeah. like honestly awesome history with the Algonquin Nation, but Yeah. So, I mean, this isn't that like crazy with the, I mean, I guess this this stat. Let's goes all the way up to Eastern Canada, and then towards western Canada and it's at every. Yeah. I mean, because essentially people were showing up and I mean, there need to be a united front. So they were, I guess allies would be a better way, these were, oh yeah, definitely tribes. and there's like a bunch of Nations that are like ankle back and Yeah, there's a lot there's a lot and a whole lot of stuff happened.

47:11 During the Seven Years War, we won't get her back. Yeah. Yeah, that's later in history. But yeah, yeah, hmm. Okay, so, so they're planning on moving Inland. So. Okay. I guess on Lanes trip again. He He either context like a neighboring like tribe and he warns them of, you know, Lanes going to be like visiting your area, bubble blah, he might be a little hostile. And, you know, he warns then, you know, before before this, he warns Lane of the same thing, but of the tribe.

47:58 So that's one again from Wikipedia and it's like, so was he trying to like Set Lanes, thing Lanes party up for failure and then people are going to like, you know, get people killed and stuff like that. So he went to worry about my coming back. It could have been a military area of the British. Yeah. Yeah. And and I can totally see that. Um, but either way either if it was like a setup from again or just like something that's just laying suspicion.

48:45 Lynn gets back, right? Oh first first we're gonna, he actually changed his name, he changed his name, it's a The premise happen. Dairy go penicillin. Yeah that's the name I know. Yeah. Okay so you change the names of famous shopping which means one who watches so he's like it's basically like a message to like I'm watching. Like I'm very very observant that's okay. Like I said, so like get a figure like I said, the Algonquin Nation at this point stretches. Pull over jigna you know the South Carolina is all the way up to well into Eastern Canada, right? So they are no strangers to trading making deals setting up protections and things of that nature, amongst tribes and stuff.

49:39 So I don't think the initial contact with the English was bad but from everything that I've learned through, like, the history that my family's told me about these situations. Whenever there were any interactions with the British even when they tried to have like normal business arrangements with them, it always breaks down and real fast. Yep, it sure did. Um, could I just didn't know the way that things? Yeah. And unfortunately, like a lot of times, like, I mean, the same thing that happened with like Pocahontas, like sometimes, I would happen with the British was like, they would just be like, We're done here and just take stuff. Yeah.

50:26 So that's why there was lots of fighting. Yeah so either way lane gets back from this Expedition and you know, he finds out that premise oppan. He's like he they're going to move Inland so you know. He's like okay by supremacist extensible with the amount of hurricanes in that area that break through the area. Yeah, well yes, terrible. So moving Inland might also just be a smart decision because the weather is bad. Absolutely. So once they move Inland Lane starts his plotting on How to get rid of?

51:19 I guess this gets some, I don't know if it was supplies that he actually liked. Was his main thing or just like to Stage, you know, I mean like to get rid of these, the indigenous, right right there. So on a day that kind of soften and like, his his people, they move Inland, I guess there's like a meeting Lanes. Moved there later on that night. And I was like, the next morning. I think it's the next morning and at this afternoon to meet the during a meeting laying gives a signal to his people that are like hiding in the bushes.

52:01 And that's this is when the massacre begins. Basically they got everybody they could everybody. Yeah. They that was the big attack. Yeah yeah the X-ray. Yeah. Yeah you know I think it was 86. Yes because yeah. That was like a tribe decimating attack. Yeah, it's just so sucky doesn't like they were leaving the area you wanted. Anyway.

52:42 Yeah. Emma sobbing. I guess he's shot and he runs away. He's chased down by, you know, the English man, and they bring his decapitated head back and they stick it on a Pike in front of the colony on Roanoke Island. So, there's that. so, this happened in beginning of June, like the very like, I think the first of June, actually, A week later. They could have waited a week. They could have waited like just a week later before they did anything stupid like that a week later Sir. Francis Drake is on his way back to England and he had supplies for this Roanoke colony.

53:39 So, like like he or he was bringing supplies these famous people. Like y'all could do could not have done this. But nevertheless, whatever it happened. So Sir Francis Drake was planning was that, you know, he was going to leave a ship and and enough Provisions for this Colony for about like four months. But I believe a hurricane or a big storm happened whenever they arrived. So the ship that he was going to leave. We've got swept out into the sea so it was weird timing.

54:24 Yeah. Like this story is full of convenient, inconvenient things. Like to call it karma buddy. Like the timing of everything. Like what this whole roll, nothing like the capitated old boy. Yeah. You know, so I really got whole lot of your feelings for you and literally murdered an entire tribe. So maybe that's why you can't get back. Listen, I like to believe in Cosmic retribution. Brittany Unfortunately, they do get back. Um, nah.

55:04 So as this ship is swept off Lane is desperate. So he goes to Drake and he's like, can you like take us back to England? Please because like, We have, we've had, you know, our fall out with the people here and there's no supplies. We don't we wouldn't have a way back, like the ship that you wanted to leave. Us is gone. So we'd be straining here for like after like after our Provisions were four months, like went up in smoke. We'd be left to the elements and the people here, because I'm pretty sure that people that is just people. There would have Killed them if they had stayed. They would have been dead.

55:52 So Drake's like, all right. Yeah, you guys can our boats, so they take them back. To England, I guess, except for three men who were just like left behind. They didn't evacuate in time and they were never heard from again. So like I said, remember, this was just all the setup for what's going to happen next. So even though this first expedition was kind of, well, I was going to say kind of value, but it was like it was definitely like a complete failure here.

56:37 What is it? Walter Reilly Sir Walter Reilly he's perfect. He's persuaded again to to return to Virginia or the outer banks by unknown a man named John White. Plus some other people as well, but not on Roanoke Island up, because it obviously wasn't safe anymore. Her force him to be living there. So the first settlement was definitely like aimed more towards Merrill. Terry Outpost sort of like a fort basically, but the second colonies element, whatever you wanna call it.

57:27 Column looks a colony because they're colonists. It included. It included more families and there are no military at all. At least, not an organized military. So about 115. People are like, you know, let's go, let's go. Let's let's try this again. This included one of this included, John White's pregnant daughter and her husband. So, she was like she was about to give birth.

58:08 And 1587 because we shifts leave England and they make their way to Virginia. So, The hold on a sec. Sorry, I'm still here. I'm still here. Okay, I'm still here too. I know Annalise break. No. You're good. You're good. You're good. I'm just making sure my saying because my back's up against sometimes anyway so the flagship that they were also. It's like I said three ships. Not this one.

58:51 Yeah it's one big shot. They were not. So this is where it gets weird. Okay this is this is where things start to No, this is the this is just weird. This is just weird part. So, it'll Flagship anchors at Croatoan Island right. Now, this is a little, like, not that far away from Roanoke Island. It's like I said, part of the Outer Banks. and, Whitehead planned on whenever they had like made land and like at Chesapeake Bay that he was going to take about like 40 men to go.

59:46 Search for the, The Colony of Roanoke. So why was he going to go there? So before I think it was, it was I got to hear. I got to hear written down, hold on 1586 15 in 1586. This was after like the whole colony was like abandoned and like Lanes blames so like June. 86 that horrible murder. All the indigenous people moment. Hmm.

1:00:26 And then he leaves yes and no coming back in the same year but probably towards the end of the year when it's the worst time to be traveling. Okay, so what happened after Lane has left, there were other fleets that had Going past the Outer Banks and Roanoke Island to get to England. And one of the fleet's they you know they checked out the The Colony and they said it was a bad and blah blah blah. And they decided to to leave 15 men there.

1:01:11 Because they did not want to leave the settlement. The Colony abandoned, didn't want to leave it. Empty door unoccupied at all. So 1586 15 men are left on this island. I guess they had Provisions therefore whenever they knew John White was coming, I guess. So John way is told about these 15 men so he's like, all right, I'm going to check on like we can we could check on them after we establish our base camp and Chesapeake Bay. And then I'll give a good a search party to get these 15 guys off this island and they'll come join us.

1:01:55 Okay. So Like I said, they're there their original destination is set as the Chesapeake Bay because one it's less dangerous. The waters are a lot deeper in Chesapeake Bay than they are on the Outer Banks and it was just like an easier. I guess an easier way for like ships to, to get in and out of the sea. I'm sorry. Something in micro know. It's a frog in my throat. Hmm. And and lamb was more fertile are too because in Outer Banks is just like it was just hard to grow stuff.

1:02:40 So, Instead of getting to Chesapeake Bay as ahead plan is there was so John, John White was the captain of his ship, right? But there was also a I guess a pilot. I'm not sure what you would call a navigator I guess ownership who was way more experience. And then John White at selling and stuff like that. So the whole crew respected this guy or a John White his name was Sam Mel Fernand Ferdinand Fernandez my bad his name was Sam male Fernandez and he was so he was part of the original Roanoke. Colony.

1:03:40 Well, he's part of the regional like sailing team to get to the Roanoke colony. So he for some reason change plans. Like this guy who wasn't in charge of like setting up the colony nothing he just changed, everybody's plans for some fucking reason. So When they anchor at Croatoan Island, Fernandez is like, you know, how about y'all? Just get off the boat now.

1:04:21 And you see that Island right there? That I think that's Roanoke Island. Yeah. How about we just dumped you right there and and we call it a day. Okay, cool, cool. Okay, and everybody like agreed to it for some fucking reason, I don't know. Why? Like that was like it was just so weird. Weird. Yo y'all had a plan to go to Chesapeake Bay which was further up but for some reason you let this man talk you into like not going to where you're supposed to go. So anyway it was just like it was very confusing to me.

1:05:01 Why? Like John White was just like I don't want to say the word but he's like basically like cocked into like he can he can fuck off the boat and just staying wherever they dropped him off at. Yeah. so, the next morning after they dropped off on Roanoke Island white and his colonist. They find. Oh, Colony or old for that. Was that, you know, I was on Roanoke Island when they get there. They see that the fort was dismantled. There were abandoned house is empty, like they're just empty and there was no sign of the 15 men that were left there.

1:05:52 They only found bones and it seemed like it was from one of the men that was left there. So, John White, kind of like speculated that the decisions people of the area probably killed them. So yeah, a couple days later though. One of the calmest, his name is George Howell. He was killed by the indigenous peoples are as well. He was like, It was just like straight up murder like they shot them and they bludgeoned his head with a wooden Club. Good job.

1:06:40 This was obviously them telling the English that they were not welcome there at all anymore. Yeah, you just Mark the entire like second time tribe. You don't get to come back wrong with you people. Okay, so we're going to go back in time like a little bit like a couple years and with the original scouting mission. The English brought back two men from the neighboring Islands. One from Roanoke and has one from Croatoan. The one from Roanoke, his name was Juan cheese. And the other, the one from Croatoan was montillo. So they were brought back with Lanes party, I guess and they wrote back with Lanes party to Roanoke when laying went to Roanoke from, you know, what I mean? You know what I mean?

1:07:46 From England? So, One cheese. He hated the English. He was like, how dare you all take me from my land. Like, what gives you the right? So understandably, like, obviously, like I resonate with that very much and amancio on the other hand, he was like, you know what, white man, you okay with me? So, they both want cheese on montillo.

1:08:27 They both return to the islands, when, you know, Lane brings her back. So when John White gets there, you know, there's these two guys are still around. So, John White, he goes and contacts the Croatoan people and he's like, hey do y'all have any like Information about, you know, what happened to these 15 guys or whatnot and montego's. All right, look listen, I got some got some good news and I got some bad news for you buddy. Bad news is yeah.

1:09:11 Um, see those guys they were attacked they were attacked by some people. And guess who was leading. These people want cheese on cheese, was leaving these people to attack of the 15-minute that were left on the island. So what I read was that two other men, two of the 15 men were definitely killed the other men, like they escaped on the boat and then they were just never heard from again. I don't know. And so that was bad news.

1:09:56 Good news is, I just saved a ton of money on modeling my home and both insurance. So there's that after a while they're just like okay well we know that we're not wanting here so we should stay away from Everybody. That's not Van Tol. And his people got it. Good. So, it went for a month for a month. Brittany for a month. Okay. Hey, it's just lift for a month.

1:10:38 This dude. Fernandez, he's just anchored outside. Outer Banks? He's just sitting there. He didn't go anywhere, he's just there. And like he could have took it or take it. I don't know why. But this is like this part frustrated, me, as I was reading it, I was like, so you just left them there on Roanoke Island for what reason and do you just stayed there for what reason? You could have taken them to, like, Chesapeake Bay. It's not that like, and I'm pretty sure. It's, I don't know how it's not that far by boat. Okay, pretty. Even so it doesn't, it doesn't say, I mean it's probably somewhere in these notes somewhere, but like, I don't know.

1:11:29 So, either way, once she's, I mean, I want she's got I'm think I'm getting my name is mixed up now. Munchies for his. They're both just people. Fernandez is like after months sitting here, all right? How about we just go home now and just leave these guys. so, On the island of Roanoke supplies. You know, we're getting low John which daughter. She just had a baby. It was a girl, they named her Virginia. And people were worried about, you know, running out of supplies.

1:12:18 So they persuade jauntily, what Fernandez do you ink to go to England to get, you know, more people to help them and get more supplies? John was reluctant. Of course, because he doesn't want to be like known as a deserter. Whenever you gets back to England or he doesn't want to like and he just like he doesn't lose his family. Like what happened? What what happened to his family? If he's not there? They're like his daughter. Just had a daughter against a granddaughter to worry about now. But, you know, reluctantly he goes with Fernandez back to England.

1:13:02 He this would probably this would this would definitely be the last time he would see his family friends also like, can you remember, who you imagine that boat ride back with Fernandez? Like John Wayne just looking at Fernando's like, so you just left us there that Island for my apparently boy must have been spooked by something like a, bro, you couldn't just like taking this Chesapeake Bay wasn't that far away, buddy. Like what would you think? And you just sent her for a month to what the hell? Anyway, so what happens? Next is a series of very unfortunate events. So by the time that John White gets back to England, I guess what happens, it's the Spanish Armada, AR it's attacking, it's a tagging England or its plan to attack England. And then like I guess a year or so later a little bit later they start attacking either way before they attack Queen Elizabeth the first.

1:14:17 She prohibits all able Shape. Oh, Abel ships from leaving England at this time in case they were needed for war. It's 1857 at a time. Okay, 1857 is when he gets back to England. I mean if it's 1587 I don't know why I keep saying God 1587. Okay, so a man named Richard Greenville. So this guy Richard Greenville. He was. Do you remember when I said that, Ralph Lanes? Colony was waiting like it was supposed to be waiting for two months into a supply ship was supposed to come. Okay, so this guy Greenville.

1:15:10 He was supposed to be leading that supply, that that Supply run. I believe that. Something happened to greenville's like ship, so they got like, like blown off course or something, so they lost Provisions that way or it's something something along those lines that he wasn't able to make it to the Colony. So that's why they had to rely on the dishes, people of the area generosity. So Ville.

1:15:54 He's given permission to leave for the Caribbeans the Caribbean, Caribbeans, Caribbean to Caribbean, whatever to attack, you know, Spanish. So John was also give her permission to you know, tag along with them. But when they're about to leave, The winds were too harsh so they were stuck in Port. so they're stuck there, and by the time that the winds, like have finally calmed down there, ready to go again, Greenville, got new orders, To stay and fight.

1:16:38 So John was stuck again. Yeah, but Greenville did have two smaller ships that were not I guess they weren't combat-ready or the content they weren't for combat over battling. So he's like, all right here John, you can take these two ships, get the heavy supplies to, you know, your Island, your colony. He's like, yes. All right. And so the two ships leave when supplies So what happens next?

1:17:20 I think it's like the stupidity on the the captains of the two ships. So first the captains of the ships are like hey let's go caption some more Spanish ships so we can make like more of a profit on this run. So this is what they do and jobs like, okay, can we just like you'll make it quick? I got people to save here, you know what I mean? Time for this. All right. Oh my God. Yes, exactly what they were doing. Like let's do the sciquest real quick.

1:18:00 Not the main quest? No, no, no, listen. There's like a timer on this Mission and I got to get back home. It's already been like a year. Yeah. Um, so a couple weeks later after they go and they do all their stuff that you ships are attacked by supposedly Pirates. Two dozen of the crew were killed and supplies for Roanoke, loot It, Go on course, of course. So they had to turn back to England. So August rolls around.

1:18:47 The Spanish Armada is defeated. I had tell you during the time of pirate must have been wild. Yo, I wish like just wild. I wish I was a pirate. That's all I can think about is. I'm like bro, the time of pirates had to have been absolutely insane. Then it must have been the greatest time ever. You think the greatest Pirates? Yes, for the Pirates but like not enough people get low. Loot and left. Look, I would have been a pirate. I don't care about the oh God.

1:19:34 I'm just I just think about that. Like in hindsight and go like just wild man. You couldn't just. I mean they're still pirates in certain parts of the world but like yeah. Not you really couldn't just cross the ocean Chillin. No. Susie a Jolly Roger. Yeah. I'm for done for son. Oh God. That something like you're just Day, I can only imagine them. They're like, you know, we should, this is good, we finally got it. We're doing it and Then all of a sudden you see pirate ship when you're like well shit. Yep basically that is what happened? So Like I said, the Spanish Armada is defeated, this is August, but ships are still banned from leaving because they were, they were used to going to be used to focus, only a counter-attack against the Spanish. And this is now in 1589.

1:20:51 John White doesn't get to try another Supply, run until 1590. So this is three years. This man has been trying to get back to the xylem. Yeah, baby. His granddaughter is just there. He doesn't know what's going on. Is people like this? Like this is obviously, obviously before cell phones or Internet shit like that. He doesn't know. He doesn't know what's going on there. Like and he like it. Can you imagine? Oh my God, could you imagine? Like he must have been stressing out the whole fucking time? God bless it. I don't like him because he decapitated my duke but not John.

1:21:33 Why John Waite didn't do it? It was like slate. That was my instinct. Yeah, sins of the father. Okay, okay okay no I'm being completely. Listen. Hey, yeah. Okay, so it's 1590 John gets to like he gets permission to head back with snow Supply ships and he arrives, August 12. And the anchor at Krakatoa Croatoan Island.

1:22:17 So nothing, nothing notable happens on this. First day, August 15th, the crew they spot, plumes of smoke, coming from Roanoke Island, the next morning more smoke this time. It's coming from the other end of Croatoan Island. They don't like they do they they search scroll to I Croatoan Island because that's the closest Island right there. They're right there so they searched the area. They don't find anything August 17th there's another fire on Roanoke Island so check that out. So this time they do go to check it out but before they get through know, Oh Kyle and I guess it gets dark and they didn't want to chance it because they they knew what was going to happen.

1:23:18 If they they popped in their late at night they would have got attacked So they just anchor ships off of Roanoke Island. And they sing English songs and hopes that the colonists on land. Can hear them, obviously 80s. They get to Roanoke Island. They finally like they land on Roanoke Island. And August 18th was also, John wife's John White's granddaughters, third birthday.

1:23:59 So, she was three years old. Yeah, but she already been yep. Yep, yep. Yep. Probably, Yep. They're fresh tracks in the sand but no one comes to greet them. They spot a nearby tree that has the letters cro written on them. They set they want to get to the Colony and they find the word Croatoan written on a post. Like I said in the beginning of the episode and you know John thinks okay. So they must have you know they must be on Croatoan Island since then we just came from.

1:24:44 Yeah yeah hmm we didn't see a whole bunch of people there. They did not see anybody there. and um, The reason why he's lost this though was because, I guess, before he left, he liked the whole Colony, they had made like a plan to like, leave a message if they ever left the area before John got back. Right, right. And I guess Croatoan was like, their, their message to them saying that, this is where we went not, this is who attacked us.

1:25:26 Um, so, But upon further inspection of the you know the colony you could tell that had been looted valuables were gone, Boats were gone, nothing was there even I guess, John had some chest that he had buried when he was there on island and they had been drugged up, Dave and dug up and loot it. it's And that's basically like it's like I'm not sure, it doesn't say that. He went to Croatoan or he likes and I think I he tried to. I mean, they investigated and stuff, I remember. Yeah.

1:26:28 Yeah. Nothing like they. Nothing. Nothing came up after that. Nothing ever happened. Yeah. And the main reason was because of one of the ships that, I guess what the anchor cable snapped. Because like, that, that night when they went back to the ship's, they're like, okay. We're going to check for watching William Island the next day but I mean I wouldn't I wouldn't. I mean I definitely would. Okay. So there's I know some of the hypotheses about this. Hmm. And at this point, Foul Hatton was a thing.

1:27:13 You would you would know? so, I mean, there were other situations happening like Wrecking the ship very. Well, could have been a sabotage. Yeah. I mean, at this point, we're talking about Kyle Hatton, the the pot and tribe is Pocahontas. This tribe John Smith, all that's happening. So and the situation where people don't really understand about, like, what happened there, like, Disney movie is so like, wiped the realness, like, when I say that, like comment, like, and I said, that, like conversations between indigenous folks and colonizers break down fast, it broke down real fast.

1:28:02 It went, where, like John Smith's crew were like, kidnapping, women, if they didn't give up like tobacco Fields. Yeah, yeah. It went real hostile real fast. So I mean, I completely unintentional Vibe, like they could have thought that that new ship was reinforcements. Hmm. Or it could have just been, you know, that the thing broke the the it's that I forget what you call the part of that ship that broke there's something anchor cable. So, I mean, I can't stop, you know.

1:28:43 Yeah, that's it. It can't land. They can't, they can't like land anywhere. Like one of the, one of them was cut. So, you know, sabotage, I mean, if you're already in fights with, Other people, you know what I mean? And they had that like by, I like the late 1500s. They were already kidnapping. How hatton's and taking them. There was true. So they could have seen any Englishmen as it's okay. And immediately well you know what? Stop you and your stupid boats. Dang, no anchor. Bye, see you later.

1:29:25 Yeah. So, I mean, there's yeah, yeah, no. Yeah. it was as when I always heard of and I thought that that had some legs I'm like II. Think the real hostile not that far from there. So, very true, very true to is that like, is this when we talk, we learn about colonization and like American history in the u.s. they talk about it and like these little stages but like once like one crew started showing up other clearly like other groups of people started showing up. Yeah. The the East Coast was just inundated with people all up and down the coast by, you know, obviously the pilgrims are the first ones but I mean like into the future and the 1600s. Hmm.

1:30:16 A lot of drama, a lot of fighting. That summation of tribes estimation to colonizers. Sickness, all sorts of terrible stuff happening up and down, Simon. Yeah. Yeah. Terrible. But did he ever get to do like a proper investigation so that time he had to leave because the boat was screwed. Yeah. So he had to leave but they had made plans to come back the next year. After the one ship. Spent the winter in the Caribbean Caribbean Caribbean. I don't know why I keep saying correct. Caribbean, Caribbean movie Pirates of the Caribbean, and we've been running ever since that a Disney movie. Yeah, I know the Caribbean, so they're going to return back in the spring of 1591.

1:31:15 But unfortunately, this plan did not go very well because the ship that They were planning on taking to the Caribbean was blown off course and it forced him to stop for Supply somewhere. And then the wind when they when they wanted to land at the places he wanted to get supplies from the winds, we're fucking bad. And so the ship was just forced to go back to England. Um, after that, John White wasn't able to like get back to Roanoke ever. So after that, nothing like there were investigations, of course, other investigations, besides white, trying to get back there to look for his Kong.

1:32:13 Has his Colony Sir Walter Reilly Was I guess so he was supposed to. He basically wants to wipe his hands clean of this whole thing but he wanted to keep his claim on Virginia. So What he did was, he didn't want to pronounce any of the colonists, like legally dead at this time. So, so he can like, I guess, what is it? He could pass on this land to his son. Or no, not him.

1:33:05 Not him, not at nighttime. No. So I'm sorry, I'm skipping ahead. So I guess he just wanted to keep his claim on Virginia. Basically. So, What remember a John White's, his daughter? Her husband. I don't know how to pronounce his name, but his last name is dare so they I guess there's a petition that goes around that's like yo we need to we need to make it like Make this like public that he's like legally dead, so that his son John there is another like, there are so many jobs in this story.

1:33:50 I don't understand. Why was everyone like, he had his fucking John and one of my least favorite things when you're trying to cover stories about old step, is that if a kid died, they would just rename the kit like the new kid. Yeah. So or like, was like, oh, and Susan died. So then like, Like, and maybe she was like 14. So they would name the new baby Susan. And so, you just have all these names, like, all these names are the same. It's very frustrating when you're trying to like, tell a story and everyone has the same name. That's why sometimes when I plug some of the older stories, I'll use some people's first names and some people's last names trying like delineate or I'll be like Junior.

1:34:35 So that's obviously the son of this person because everybody in the family line. Same fucking name, but apparently he had a son, an England named John Deere and he was supposed to inherit. I guess what is his name? Anna and I he's and Ice there so that he had a state that is someone supposed to inherit. So, this happened and 1590. Seven. So Riley was, I guess.

1:35:18 He said, he said he when he was on like a voyage in 1595, he said, he wanted to go stop by in search for his column the colonists as well. But Later on he he admitted that this was like a lie because he was just like he wanted to cover up that he was actually searching for El Dorado instead of searching for his people. But you said he's so past the Outer Banks but you know the weather just stopped him from Landing or anchoring. Hitting isn't Landing.

1:36:06 I don't know what it's like when I say these terms, I'm thinking of like planes but I think it's they work on for boats to. I'm not sure I'm not a sport doc, I'm sure one of those one of those things don't think it matters that much people understand what's happening. Yeah. So yeah. Sorry, it was just I I have a question for you. So one of the theories that I always heard was that those people kind of Of what's the word like assimilated into local tribes? Yes unlikely but I think that's like the nice you know one so that's the advisor Theory and that's I guess part of when John Smith was in the area over he lied like a mofo.

1:37:04 I can't trust Anything John Smith said like he told so many like, I mean, he created the Mythos that like Pocahontas like stepped in the way of and she protected me and I was like, brush. She was 12. And it was like a total. It was like a religious like event. Yeah, he thought like he oh my god. Do they didn't even like the name. Pocahontas didn't even appear in any writings. From what was going on in Chesapeake, during that time until he wrote his book, like 10 years later. Hmm.

1:37:45 Yeah he was a not a great guy so I don't know if I trust the the integration aspect of it came from one of his books. Well, he's a liar. Yeah, I'm not sure but I still got to add it. But yeah, so I guess once he was He had heard claim that there were, I guess indigenous people that were dressed in. There are men and I guess you're just people dressing European style clothing from another tribe. And they I guess they looked kind of European, but they weren't European.

1:38:37 They were more indigenous. Well, they're closed. We stood up that long. I don't know anybody was seen them. They would have been paler than the app because I also, I hope anybody listening knows this. But originally indigenous Americans were a lot more darker skin due to a lot of rape and kidnappings. A lot of people like, so in the original at pictures of indigenous, people, they aren't fair skin. They don't look like me. Yeah. So like I feel like a Sadler would have stuck out.

1:39:17 You know what I mean? Even if they weren't wearing like old clothes at the, you know, English clothes because they were pale-faced. Yeah. Yeah. There are they could have just. Yeah. It could have been just babies. Like there were no. Never mind. Now doesn't make any sense. I don't know, but, you know, if there will be enough time. Exactly. It's yeah, this was at this was like 1607 and this is like 10 but maybe, I don't know, like 10 years later, so maybe I mean if they would have been allowed to become a part of other tribes, they would have been very lucky. It's like if they were captured by other tribes and just force it integrate with them.

1:40:02 Still would have been lucky. Yeah. Fuck you then try and do it on their own and area that doesn't necessarily have the best ground for certain crops and stuff. They were trying to push Yeah. So I like the other one, too. That like, they just like got a ship and they tried to, like, leave. That's a good. Like, wait a second, how? How big is a ship they built one? They try to build this shit. They tried to build. Yeah, I mean you could it's I mean it's not nowadays is not that mean it's probably was hard back then with his I mean, it's not on a ship that could cross.

1:40:44 The Atlantic like a it sounds impossible with 100 people? Yeah, I'm not, I don't know. I don't know. There's also like a spin and maybe a Spanish attacked and had happened there. But who knows? Apparently there's another tree. It's a Cora tree. It has the word core written on it. That's another, I guess conspiracy of the yeah. Yeah, yeah. And well, like what does Cora mean? I don't know, maybe just misspelled, Croatoan or Crower these this Velcro Oh no, no, no, I like this one. As a story is a local legend about a witch named Cora from a book from 1989.

1:41:49 Okay, never mind. That's made of. Yeah, nothing, nothing. So no one really knows. Okay. This person might have been I'm saying that they left Croatoan to settle with the Quarry. Another Another tribe. Okay. No, no no. Of course, the Dare Stones.

1:42:31 Yes. What? Those are considered things? Yes, yes, everything is surrounding. This is interesting. Like the only, I've like I've seen Croatoan like so many times I think, I first time I saw it was like in Supernatural the show. I was gonna say, I'm pretty sure it's was it. Supernatural. It's a Batman thing. Supernatural now.

1:43:16 But it was, I think it was like a demon plot point in the 90s and Crow. Tell me the most wonderful. Yeah. It was a spawn Batman. And of course thing, Roanoke is one of my favorite, one of the few seasons of American Horror Story that I actually really. Like, I, I did not like that. That's where we differ. I know. We say, okay, so I love those shows where they retell the story of a haunting and I love that they've recreated that. Yeah, I mean okay, so that makes 25, it did get a little long after they left the house and then they came back and there was the reunions that's when he got a little long. But um, Unfortunately, that's just how that show is there. It always hits a point for me, where it's like, wow, this feels like a great ending still going and sometimes after the first great ending, there's another great ending but not always but yeah, a lot of people don't like that one but I kind of love it because it does have the historical connection just a little bit.

1:44:31 Yeah, I just I do like it because Lady Gaga is very hot. That one you got. That was she's in Roanoke is just like she plays I guess some type of which that's there. I mean yeah you there was definitely because there was a whole which aspect of it. Yeah yeah so she was the witch oh yeah okay the one with running through the woods got it. Yeah yeah I listened she barely looks like herself in that. And she barely looks like her. She doesn't, she doesn't, she doesn't hear, right?

1:45:15 I didn't realize it was hurt. But anyway, no, it'll be okay. But that is what I got for today. This is my longest to be the one who talks for like an hour and a half. I'm so glad it was like like, We did it when you were to into your section because this would have been like a three hour episode, right? Holy crap. You're right. If I had done, oh yeah, I was working on a real juicy one that for next time. For y'all who are listening. It's one that people have begged me to talk about for so long, a particular serial killer, who I am not a fan of mouth so you have that to look forward to if you're still listening.

1:46:06 Yes, thanks so much for putting up with our special. Joel covid. Quarantine episode. Yes, thank you guys for listening as always and goodnight he