The Beast of British Columbia(pt1) & El Sibon

0:30 Hey, everyone. In serial killer country. My name is Brittany. Ransom, my name is Brian Joyner and this is when Killers get caught a podcast of a deep. Dives into the Killer's. We love to learn about every week bride and I discussed to true crime stories. I resonated with us and then I will lead you down the darker path of learning about who a killer was, how they grew up, how they killed and most importantly how they got caught and then Brian ends our podcast, the touch of the Paranormal, a story about Cryptids or the creepier Suds life and thanks so much for listening. I know a lot of you actually messaged me and they said that they really enjoyed glitch and having her on the podcast but they missed Brian and what you bring to the podcasts or so happy to have you back.

1:17 Oh yay. Thank you guys. I appreciate it so much, you know, idea. Now this week a true-crime I tried to find something that was killer related because That's my angle but I just was inundated with stories about this case. And so Brian, did you hear about the preacher from New York who was robbed during his sermon? No, it's the like sort of a joke or something. No, it's not. Miss Bishop Lamar, Miller white head and he was live streaming his Sunday. Sermon is about a week ago at the leaders of Tomorrow International Church in Brooklyn when he asked his congregation, how many of you have lost your faith because you saw somebody else died. Literally seconds later, three bass people armed Ons enter the church and he's like, all right, all right, all right and he gets out on like ground lays on his stomach. This is on live stream, like these clips are out there. One of the people stands over him takes like things off of the pastor's body and they walk out and the pasture and formed the police that that was over 1 million dollars in jewelry that belonged to both Bishop, Bishop L'Amour and his wife, Wife. Wow he's yes yes yes.

2:45 And my PD have been kind of release statement to the press and this is an ongoing investigation. No arrests were at least made by Monday of this week and of course he's like, I want Justice, I want these men arrested, but then like on social media, he was like, this is how the dealt, the devil moves, you know? And he offered a 50 thousand dollar reward for the arrest and capture, these perpetrators buddy, These they're done. Those diamonds are now in Canada. They're being broken down and wish they will be sold in Europe. Like there's nobody is pawning this in Brooklyn. It happened like 11:14 a.m. and the church is located in the Canarsie neighborhood in Brooklyn. Yeah, they even have like, clips from outside of the church showing the guys, like popping up in a car and I guess the, the bishop was really upset because he's like, they ripped my collar off.

3:47 To get to my jewelry, my God. Oh my God. Jesus, I felt the Demonic Force. I felt it pushed The door now. Pause that because that everybody feels. But oh well, that sucks. You going to mean but all across my timeline has been have we? We've been saying Eat the Rich but should we just robbed churches for the poor? Like because obviously he is not giving to the poor. I mean for himself? Yeah. Churches don't they don't. Pay was a taxes or something, right? Do you have to pay taxes? See ya, pretty. Well, so here's the best thing about this, of course, is all over the place.

4:33 So today is the 29th when I'm recording this yesterday. there's an article in the New York Post that says, That apparently there was a lawsuit from one of his members of his congregation stating that he stole 90,000 dollars from that man, last year. And so apparently I around this area in Brooklyn but ship, Lamar Whitehead is known for wearing Gucci suits. Diamond-encrusted chains has loads of luxury vehicles and he has an extensive history of stealing from his congregation. He's been in prison.

5:15 In for identity theft and grand larceny. The woman who filed the lawsuit? Her name is Pauline Anderson and she said that he convinced her to liquidate her life savings and invest 90 thousand dollars in November of 2020, which of course, didn't happen. Nothing in it was invested into nothing. He was like, I will invest this into real estate and then we can buy Renovate a better home for you, mind you in New York City. Hmm, where it's like, three thousand dollars for a studio apartment.

5:59 So buying property in New York cost a lot more than 90 K. And she also apparently, he also agreed to pay her a hundred dollars per month to like help her. Since that savings was her only source of income. She's 56. So I guess she was retired. And that was supposed to be like her, her life money instead, he used that ninety thousand dollars for a down payment towards the 4.4 million dollar home that he bought for himself in Saddle River. New Jersey. That is still like ongoing, but obviously they are pulling apart this man's. And the worst part about this is I'm gonna send you this link and you can see like they show like The church trash it looks horrible.

6:53 Like normally when people are like, these mega church, guys are making all this money. The place looks beautiful. Yes, not this one. I'll know. And I'm like, how are y'all giving money to this shit list? He is a fraud and a fake. I bet you as they continue pulling up, there are more people from his congregation who he just flat-out robbed. I can see that happening. Very soon. And what if he just like had like super religious? But I'm like, listen. This is not a man of God. Y'all you need to find better people to follow because it's this ain't it. Is he's not it. Yeah I'm just I'm just thinking like maybe he just had he's found a rundown church and then he just like, hmm I don't want to do here.

7:39 And just like so that like 4.4 million house that sale didn't go through and that. And so that's how Pauline learned about it. Essentially. He accidentally sent an email to her son. Rashid Anderson about the purchase of the property. I guess. He her son must have like work with the church or something, and, but he eventually used that money for a 4.5 million dollar apartment complex, in Hartford Connecticut. So he's trying to move and leave the ghetto actually. I don't know if Canarsie is that much, if you get her, I just know that what happened here was a little bit ghetto. I feel bad.

8:27 Yeah, absolutely yeah but he got like oh he is like a little mini mansion and so Pauline is seeking 1 million dollars in Damages for his morally. Reprehensible acts and for stealing her entire life savings. Obviously the case is still pending because that was filed in 2020 when everything was a mess and obviously courts are still backed up because while they're handling old cases. New cases are coming up just adding more, so I'm thinking that this is going to be the update. I was like, apparently he has defended his lifestyle very aggressively saying that his public displays of wealth didn't lead to this robbery and like people are like you sure your giant Blinged-out cross didn't make you a Target.

9:22 It's a massive. It's easily. Like the size of the palm of an adult person saying, oh my God, and it's Square in the middle. That's just, that's what they ripped off his neck and I was just like, sir, they stole his Rolex seventy-five thousand dollars. I'm like you supposed to be a man of the people, you will you not given Jesus? This was not giving Jesus. No, he was given to himself. He's a man to himself the like Jesus would have walked in your church. And Roger is to review and through everything on the floor. Like he did with the tax collectors. But that's all I got for you today. I was, oh my God, rolling at the update.

10:03 I'm like, are you kidding? Of course. I knew he was a con man. I just didn't know he was like that level of a con, man. I thought it was like he You know, little bits of money, the natural way that churches make a bajillion dollars, but his churches and the one making the money. It's just him. It's just him and his scheming scamming and stuff. Oh well, that was our pride, I liked it. Okay. So for the story for my story, this week, it's also an update. Okay. So about seven months ago, go, I'm not sure if you remember this, a lot about four men were arrested with conspiracy conspiracy to kidnap resulting in death and kidnapping and the charged with like murder-for-hire basically was this the guys who are trying to kill that Senator.

11:04 No, not this one. Because they didn't actually kidnapper they just planned it out. Yeah the so seven months ago they are indicted on you know on this okay but this happened back in 2020 so 47 year-old Eric Charles moaned and he he's like the main person as but they're like three other guys. They're all two of them were also like around Eric's. Aged 48-47. There's a 31-year old to. So what happened is that Eric hired these guys to kidnap And possibly murder his mistress.

11:58 And her boyfriend. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Well, it's his mistress not. I guess not his ex Ministries. His she's as ex-mistress now. But you know what I mean? She well, It's probably some context we're not going to get into this if on TV. Whoa, oh my God. Okay so Mom, and he would, I guess he lived. They'll guess was a Texas thing and it was all Texas area should say and he would drive to Nashville to visit, I guess a relative And in early February, 20 20, he emailed a woman later who wasn't identified as his mistress. His mistress's name was Holly Williams and she was 33 years old and she had a 36 year old boyfriend. His name was William land way.

13:07 Okay, so he, you know, he started this affair with her why you know, emailing her to see her when he was you know, coming to visit Okay. And So how does he get to kill her and her boyfriend? Yeah. Okay. He's this is the part. So after he visited, blah blah, blah mod, he receives this text message from Lan way, who was Williams boyfriend and he's like, if you, if you don't pay me, I will eat three basically layaway, try to, you know, blackmail Him saying if you don't pay me, I'm going to expose this whole relationship and it's not very good at having an affair if all these people can find out details about I know, right?

14:03 It's really bad. Okay. All right then so bonds like all right, you know what know this ain't gonna happen so he got these three guys. To assist him with dealing with the threats from Mantua and this happened on March 5th 2020. He took out fifteen thousand dollars from his bank account and yeah, serious business. Yeah. And I guess they stalked Miss Holly Williams for a while, eight thousand dollars in cash was Leslie. A deposit into some spear tip security business account, as well as like seven thousand dollars for this, add it to one of the other guys, the the other Hitman his account. So on March 12th mon, he said he allegedly allegedly. Transferred 150,000 dollars into a bank account and which belong to, I'm going to say his name is pelled. That's it.

15:17 That's how his name is bellowed and I'm pretty sure this guy was like the main the main hit man. So he was the ball hit man with these other guys. So after after this money is transferred to his account on the same day, his two henchmen Brockway and carry, they confronted Williams and then way in a parking lot and they shot land way multiple times. And any kidnapped, Holly Williams and they reportedly drove her and laying way to a construction site.

16:01 And wishes It's called Old Hickory Boulevard before they murder their as well. Yeah, so both bodies, they were discard it. And then They just didn't. All right. Well, it well there. Yeah. So, apparently between March 11th and then the right now. 750 thousand dollars was transferred by moaned to pelled Brockway and carry for their crimes. all right, and then I guess they were all.

16:51 They are all arrested. December 10th 2021. And yeah it's I guess Monde was like he was a partner at the at the Mond Automotive Automotive Group in Allston. So he worked at this car please. So very he, you know, he was well known in the area I'm assuming. So that's why is a threats for getting to him? He's like, I kiss going to ruin my business. Can't let these people booing, my business, my car business. I'm gonna have to kill them. It doesn't say went like how they were arrested and you know how people found out about that, they did this? But yeah, like December 10th 2021 please, pick them up. On, you know.

17:50 On these charges. And now, the thing is that this update is that there are still like there's still things coming out like He? He's a he's facing even like more charges have come and have come up. I see He's trying it now now what it is is that he tried to have one of the co-conspirators, one of the, the Hitmen he tried to. He tried to make arrangements from prison, it from prison to hire to hire somebody else to no way to kill one of the co-conspirators.

18:43 Yes, yes. I was like so you just you do you have a learn? Have you? You haven't learned anything. I really just think they can get away with everything. Yeah, I forget who which one is it that he tried to get killed? I don't know, I think it's a No, it doesn't say, it doesn't say which one. It just says co-conspirator and then he just goes over the whole case again, what happened? And blah blah blah.

19:28 But yeah, it's it, it started getting wild after I start as after I read it and I was like what? You try to get somebody else killed at while he's in prison, okay? All right, buddy. Yeah. That's why I got, all right. Well yeah. I guess. Okay. Usually we give our cousin's in Canada props for doing the right thing when it comes to Killers.

20:15 But this week we're going to talk about a serial killer had a particularly lengthy, a horrible criminal history and still somehow managed to get Released a comical amount of times to go on to kill 11. Teens and children that we know of his name was Clifford Olson, Junior, and they called him the Beast of British Columbia this week. There's so much with this man's life that I had to break this up. I told just for you listening, they're like 28, right? And pages of content about him that I did. So I, I cut off this week. At his 40th birthday from the time that he was 17 years old to the time that he was 40. He only spent 1,500 days out of prison. There are a lot of rest that we're gonna have to talk about today, but we always have to start at the beginning and so Clifford Olson.

21:16 Jr. Was born January 1st, 1942 Clifford and Leona Olson. He was their first son and back in the 1940s when babies were born. On the new year. They would usually hand out Silver Spoons or cases of canned milk, but because Clifford was born at 10:00 at night and his mom have been in labor all day. All the baby prizes are already been handed out But he did get his name put in the local paper as a New Year's baby. The family went back to where they lived and Pacific National exhibition grounds in Vancouver, British Columbia, they had a pretty small home, that got filled very quickly within the first three years of his life. He got two brothers, Richard and Dennis and a baby sister Sharon and they were only living off of one income. So it was already pretty tough, but Leona did her best like many families who have lots of kids.

22:06 They all grew up wearing the older kids, hand-me-downs and patching knees and trying to make clothes last Long as possible Clifford, senior worked as a Milkman, the actually was one of the last people to drive a horse drawn cart and deliver milk to people's homes. He yeah. He would have been part of the last men of the air to do, so even though eventually though that gets phased out and he starts doing odd, jobs becomes a construction laborer for a local build site. They were kind of though still kind of just living your typical Suburban life. Even though money's a little tight and that is until World War Two and it kind of changed everything for the family.

22:49 Now, unlike what happened in the United States, which is that America attempted to be on involved in the conflict for as long as possible Canada. Did not do that. They immediately went to Aid Britain in the war against the Axis powers and at first, that was just aid. But eventually they were drawn into the official conflict when they're shipping Avenues were attacked by German. U-boats, so Clifford, senior was a stand-up guy. Any felt this calling to help his country and he signed up, he didn't want to just sit and lay bricks, I while his fellow countrymen were dying, and during his time in World War Two, there were times where he was allowed to come back home and stop him with his children, but pretty much the first like 45 years of all of the kids lives.

23:33 He just wasn't around very often for Clifford jr. His father was kind of a mess. He was this incredible, man. He was a soldier out fighting in the war. And by the time, World War 2 was over clever. It was about five years old and Clifford, senior was no longer as sprightly and excited. One could say he was a shadow of a man, he came back home from the war and he was like, you know what, I just I don't even want to do anything even remotely violent anymore. I wanted to be home. I want to have a home and be happy now very much like in the United States there was a program to give mortgages to Veterans and the same thing, it was actually a much more extensive program than what the u.s. offered because well, Canada wasn't dealing with the anti-black racism.

24:23 At the US was at the time. But the Olson family decided to take up that offer to get it back and they move to a much bigger city named Richmond. And Richmond was booming, because a lot of veterans were taken their version of the GI Bill and moving there. And the place was building houses or more. So bringing in people faster than they could, build houses and Clifford. Senior is like, one able to get a home very early on and a relatively large one, and he's immediately able to get a job. But since a lot of skilled laborers died in World War 2, and he already had a background in construction. so, at least for the family, The the fifth year of Clifford's Life starts out pretty, pretty nice. As for Clifford things, begin to go sour when he starts school in the fall.

25:17 He was a short stocky little boy. And since he'd only really lived with his younger Silas siblings and his mom for so long. He hadn't really been socialized to, like deal with a lot of different people and Richmond. Most of the kids knew each other and had, you know, since the daycare days so Clifford was Feeling outside and a lot of the kids ignored him. And at first Clifford kind of shut down, you know, you come home and he would be upset and his mom would try and figure out what was wrong. Within that first week though. Five-year-old Clifford decided that well, you can't ignore me if I punch you and he began picking fights with other kindergarteners.

26:07 And that was that was the path that he Chosen. And now the kids had a reason not to want to be around him and he started not just fighting kids, his own age but older and he always lost. Oh no. So he became like this kind of joke. Among the kids at school, which only made him want to fight more, and it was pretty common for his mom to patch or repair his clothes, almost daily. And if there was a day, he didn't come home with a black eye or a bruise. It was a friggin miracle. That reputation followed him into elementary school, he didn't get good grades. And his teachers tried to help but Clifford, never really did more than the bare minimum, which was showing up and sitting in the chair. His parents got used to To a lot of letters home every quarter saying he's at risk of failing.

27:00 Not this point. He's in early Elementary School and his brothers come to school too. And the teachers are shocked, they assumed all the Olsen kids were going to be terrible after their experience with Clifford. But the two brothers, Dennis and Richard pop up and they are excellent students and never get in trouble. So it kind of almost makes it worse for Clifford because now, they're, like, why can't you be like your brother? Others, you know how that goes, Nobody Likes here and that's cool. And so it's Clifford Juniors, entering Middle, School Clifford, senior leaves construction and gets a job as a property manager. And this is great. This gives him all this time and more money. And he's like now that we're financially stable, I'm going to invest this time and money into my children, unlike almost every True Crime.

27:51 Dad. We have ever discussed Clifford. Senior wanted to encourage his kids to the way that he had never had. As a child, the family love that the kids loved it. Except for Clifford Junior, who was a total buzzkill? and so, like the thing was, if you showed interest in like anything, Clifford senior was like, all right, let's go do this. So if like one of the boys was like, oh well, I want to, you know, learn about science. He's like bets go to the Science Museum and Clifford bigger went along, but he didn't like it. And if somebody was like, I really like music. He's like, awesome. I'll take you to go. See people play violin or play piano Clifford went along.

28:31 We didn't seem to like it. So one day, when Clifford Juniors about 12, his dad gets tickets to a boxing match and he's just like I'm going to take him Leona is not into this, but Clifford seniors. Like, what if, you know, we can find one activity that will help with his attitude. And so, he kind of like against his wife's wishes, Takes him to this boxing match and he sneaks them in. And from the moment, they arrived Clifford jr. Is into it, he joins in with the crowd, with the jumping and the screaming and the Clapping Clifford seniors, like found it.

29:14 The thing, my kid likes and so just like he did with the other kids, he tastes like days. After this Clifford juniors are talking about and, you know, and then this happened, he's telling everybody about it. So Clifford senior takes them to a boxing gym and there's one of those old school. On with the sawdust floor and big heavy leather bags and was full of ex-soldiers and Old-Timers who just needed to get some air, you know, energy out and he signs his short chubby sign up for lessons. And Clifford jr. Is a natural in the ring Leon has not too excited about it but this was the first time they'd really ever seen their son, happy ever know. And one day, when he goes to pick up Clifford, Junior seniors, just kind of sitting outside in the car and the coach is like, hey, I think he's good enough to enter a competition and Clifford seniors.

30:02 Like, are you just kind of like You know, smoke up my ass. Yeah, you could. You could give me the pay for more lessons but the coaches, like, no, I'm serious. Come inside and look at him, he's in the ring right now. And so he walks in and sees his son, just, you know, duck and dive in throwing punches like, he's bouncing around the ring like lightly and like he's all right. He's like all right. And so the two of them while he's finishing up his fire talking about Your specialized diets training schedules. Maybe one Heyday can be in the Olympics like around this time, boxing was huge across the world. I mean, the u.s. we have Muhammad Ali. Like everybody had their person and like it was a huge thing. Of course so far like all of our stories involving Clifford, thanks shift.

31:00 Clifford Junior just one day. Quits boxing pretty abruptly. See he had a plan. All those kids who'd been whooping him for the last six years, he had an Arya Stark like list and he intended to make all of them pay. So, he systematically starts showing up at these kids homes and knocking them all out. Well, that's legit. You beat my ass in kindergarten pop, knock them out right in their front yards. Hey back. And as he started taking these kids out, one by one all the way up to the older kids, who bullied him and knocking them out to his reputation changes. He's not a loser anymore.

31:47 Now, he's a bully. Hmm. See, as far as Clifford Junior was concerned. His dad wanted him to be the best in the world and Clifford. Just wanted to be the best in the school. He still show up at the gym in like spar with folks, but it was only to stay Sharp. He does make some friends, but most of his friends right now are just people who want to stay in his good graces and not get knocked out. Most were a little bit older and already involved in like the criminal element in town and somewhere around late middle school early high school. As when Clifford discovers that he has a gift, See. All throughout his early childhood he was like aggressively unhappy about rejection and his new friends taught him.

32:34 That listen rejection is in the end of the world. You can you can get past that you just because he saw his friends because you know, he's getting in the girls and things right now and like he's terrified to even talk to a girl. His friends were like, listen, she says, no to you, who cares? And so, he's like, he gets over that mental block of being rejected by everyone. and all of a sudden he can talk to anybody and he starts taking notes from his friends who were doing kind of little cons and he noticed that they were really slick and they never made any mistakes and that He was going to be better than they were and when I bring that up because the thing is when somebody is just too good Brian, I just gave him his to to perfect.

33:23 Do you believe them know exactly what's little? So that's what he noticed. Watching his friends who were doing cons was that they were actually being too good. And so he realized that if he could strategically show a weakness that would make people trust him more like make himself the butt of a joke. Laugh along with it and then that Lord people's defenses and then he could actually come them. Rob them, convince them to give him things his reputation for being a bully, never really left. Like he got to the point with his ability to like talk kind of smooth was that instead of walking up to a kid at school and punching them to steal their money, he would pretty much kind of coerce them into giving it up. And he actually loved that idea that he didn't have to He could get what he wanted without violence, okay. And this goes on until he's about 16 years old. At that point, he's like I feel like I have everything I need to be successful in life and honestly, he's been skipping school, pretty aggressively since he was about 10 years old. So when he just stopped showing up at Cambridge Junior High in 1956, they were like, okay, I'm sure some of his teachers were probably pretty happy to realize. He wasn't coming back.

34:43 However, his parents are like, listen, you gotta go to school but this very good quiet. Kind of morose child didn't exist anymore and his parents are like, well, he's here. He's become This. Charming young man, who says, he doesn't want to go to school anymore, but also says he has a plan. I told his parents, he's like, listen, we all know I'm not going to college. Why should I spend the next two years trying to make a grades for college? I'm not going to, I Is go and start making money now, as parents are like, you know, that does make sense, but you got to get a job. Like now the same day, his parents told him, you got to go get a job. He walked into the old Lansdowne Racetrack and talked them into giving him a job.

35:31 Damn what he was going to do was take bets from the patrons at the racetrack and that involved him kind of walking around and talking to people and of course his gift really He helps, you know, who do you thinks gonna win? And he would kind of nudge them toward the wrong choice, so that the track collected more money. And then he started making his own bets on the side to make money off of their bad bets. And his employer didn't care because they were making money heads over. You know, Fisto, it was a hangover Fest. Yes. And if anybody got mad at Clifford for luring them into a bad investment. Yeah, he wasn't super tall but he was still pretty stock. And he absolutely could knock you out kind of first time in Clifford's life.

36:18 He's got a lot of money and he's feeling pretty great about it. He very quickly decided that he could do better though. So we went back to a lot of his friends from high school. Many of them had also quit school and he's like, listen you guys always have money. What are you doing to make all this money? And they were like, I mean, we we do some things that are pretty bad but we could use some muscle, will pay you to keep us safe as a lookout. And he does At first, but very quickly. He's like I I need to do more and so he keeps the job at the track so that he has a day job that makes sense for his parents. But then at night, he starts going to the bar and listed under the hot gossip and he heads out in the street for what he feels is his real job.

37:01 And in the beginning that was Robin drunks still in their wallets mugging people. Sometimes he was so successful at talking people out of their money. They didn't even report him. Police. Okay. Nice from from muggings. He moves into burglary and the people who were teaching him how to burglarize were actually pretty bad at their job to the point where Clifford improved upon their method and just wasn't getting caught. He was smart, calculated athletic. And unlike many of the people committing these jobs, he wasn't an addict. So he wasn't hindered by the fact that he was under the influence, like they were. So he started doing is he would watch people while they were at the track and he would, you know, take baths and He would pick up the high, Spenders keep an eye on them, especially if they want.

37:48 You got to put down your information and now he knows where they live and then he would hit their house later and he was doing it so well, that the police actually thought that this was a new gang. Or even the mob moving into town even though there were no real patterns to it, the police did come up with a way that was successful. Unfortunately, his methodology is, what got him caught essentially. A lot of people who robbed will go back to an easy spot over and over again and that's how they get caught and Clifford noticed that. So he was like, I'm only going to hit these people once and then I'll move to a different look.

38:29 You know, I'll go to different locations. And so what the police did was they kind of plotted all of his burglaries and like, at this point we're talking about well, over 30. And so they're plotting them out and they go, we're just going to wait, where he hasn't gone yet. And one night cop saw him climbing into a window. Clifford's family is very upset. Clifford senior refuses to speak to him at all, won't visit him in prison. Won't post his bail or contact anybody who could post it. His mom, pretty much related information between dad and son, and despite the fact that Clifford senior was mad at him, he didn't want his kid to go to jail forever.

39:13 Just a little bit right there first. Yeah, it was the first time he'd ever been in trouble. So they spent all their savings and they got them a really good boy. And try and keep them out of prison for a long amount of time. So here's the thing, Clifford's clever Juniors. Lawyer is like, listen, he's underage. She's only 17 and the police are like he's robbed 15 to 30 houses. But the promise they couldn't prove that it was him. Who did all the other ones? Yes, it matched a pattern, but they searched the entire Olson house, and found only cash. There were no items that had belonged to any of the houses that have been hit. And that's because Clifford had a solid set of people.

39:56 He fenced stolen goods to and he would take the items directly from the job to the fence so that he never had the items on him for longer than an hour or so, damn, this smart. Okay, the judges definitely like, I understand what you're saying, but you're not giving me what I need for a conviction here. That's the judges. Like maybe we can do like a little scared-straight situation here, so they sent him to the Haven borstal, correctional center and bernabe to serve, nine months, until he turns 18 Clifford isn't into New Haven. It was everything he hated about school and also he couldn't leave.

40:38 Guards and teachers control, the virtually every moment of the students lives. Anytime he felt like he could relax, he is being watched and the thing is covered smart kid. He could have done what the judge wanted him to do. He might not have been a bad good student but he wasn't. A stupid guy. Thing is clyfford still kind of angry. Despite the fact that like all of the things that bothered him when he was very young, he has absolutely overcome and best it all of it. He still mad. And he's got this sense of teenage rebellion. Plus he really doesn't like when people have more power than him, he feels like they're picking on him and so he spends a lot of those nine months, focusing on Revenge I just have enough despite the fact that Clifford is it a completely different School area, his reputation of being a terrifying, child extends into the facility, he still buff and he verbally lashes out at people, you know, like, he cuts them down just publicly humiliates them, and he's physically stronger than a lot of them.

41:46 And so, very quickly, people learn not to mess with him. And then one night in the dorm, he Witnesses a rape. and for most people that would be a horrifying experience, but Clifford is like That's another way to humiliate and control people. And so he goes, and he talks to the other rapist and he's like, I would like to be a part of this. And the other boys were like, well, you're the oldest and the biggest so sure. And they pretty much give him his choice of victims. Pretty much the most feminine looking younger boys were set aside specifically for him though. He did allow some of his friends in his little rape, click to violate them as well. By the time he left New Haven.

42:33 There wasn't another kid there who was lost like like the other students. The staff hated And the best thing about Clifford is that two months, before he supposed to leave mind you his sentence was only nine months. So, seven months into his sentence. He's like, you know what, I'm tired of being here, I'm just gonna leave. And so, one day, he noticed that one of the trees near the like wall, with the stone wall, around the building had grown a bit, too high and hadn't been pruned properly. And so he straight-up climbs the Three is over the wall and in the woods, follow the road and heads back to Richmond before, people are even aware.

43:18 He's gone. By the time they set off the alarms and the policeman show up, he's a solid distance away. The police, of course, go to the Olson home and they're like, we wouldn't come here, he knows we turn a man. He stops in Richmond long enough, so he can grab cash from the people who owed him some money. And then he goes, and tries to steal a boat. And I say, tries to steal a boat, he kind of Steals it. So he doesn't know how to work about. So when the police get to the dock, he's turned it on and that's about it and he figures out how to make it move at the highest speed and he just goes. He is barely avoiding.

44:03 Many of the obstacles in the river, the police show up in their boats and they chase him and then they fire a warning shot. And he cuts off the motor stands up and puts his hand in the air. They dragged him to shore arrest him again and while there, you know, shackling him the police said that he started laughing and said you spent your whole night chasing a free man my birthday's in a couple week weeks I'll be back on the street anyway turns out that's a bad thing to say to the police because yeah relate that information to the judge and the judge was like, nah, you get two more years. No parole. Don't doesn't he do? You hear his Miranda rights?

44:43 Like, whatever you say can be used against you? I guess, I'd he's street-smart not necessarily other smart but The judge also decided that he can't be trusted to stay at the facility for children. So he's being sent to an adult prison this time and not present is called The Haney, Correctional Facility. I'm going to give you a heads up that this is one of the first of many prisons. This man spends the next 30 Years in, and out of Haney prison opened in 1957, it was based on Rehabilitation the ideas. They were going to push these really positive, social values and behavior, and provide a training program. It closed in 1975, and that's not how it ended Clifford arrives in 1958, and, despite their very Noble and idealistic principles.

45:33 They built this present on. It's still, a pretty depressing place. I think, honestly, all persons are depressing. It was very different from borstal. He wasn't the top dog anymore, and the things that had given him respect among children at the other facility, just didn't exist here. Of course, as soon as he starts at he arrives in Haney, he's picking fights and that did give some Prisoners the idea that they couldn't you know mess with him but it still wasn't anything. Like before he didn't really have a place in the prison hierarchy and people kind of just left him alone. He did rape other inmates but he couldn't control them like he had done. What the younger boys. Also in Haney, the guards were constantly on him probably because they've been told that he escaped from his last facility.

46:21 Haney had a really strict schedule for everybody. That's how prison is like mealtimes, you know, but for Clifford it was actually worse. If he wasn't at work or at eating, he was confined to his cell. He wasn't allowed to like, have like the free time like everybody else had And there were plenty of instances where Clifford would try and fight the guards like physically as they were trying to put him back in his cell after an activity. This of course only makes the guards treat you worse and it's written down in your record Clifford. Just didn't like the fact that people demanded he had to be at a certain place at a certain time and I get that because that's literally prison and why everybody hates it.

47:10 I'm like that's not that's me. You don't get to make the rules anymore. Well, It's good that you've never been in prison. I know a place for you. I can be pissing like what? I gotta be where what time damn. Come on. Hmm, Thank You. So eventually though, he did earn a little bit of respect from the guards, once he stopped fighting them so much and when he does that, they give him a little bit more freedom. There. He was able to start talking to some of the other prisoners and put his charismatic skills to good use. He starts listening when people are talking in groups and he just sits there and Lawrence and then he starts dropping that information to the guards about drugs that were being sold in the prison or things that were being smuggled in and of course it's one of the soon as the guards get this information they crack down on things and they were very happy to erase some of the dark marks on Clifford's record. This is a very dangerous line that he's Crossing. But the prisoners don't find out that he's the reason why things get locked down.

48:21 The things are being removed from the prison that are Contraband. And within a little bit over a year, they release him on good behavior because of the snitching. Since 1959. He's 19 years old now. And as soon as he's free, he goes back to do on exactly the same stuff he was doing before. Main problem is the most of his old contacts are either in prison. Themselves are no longer in the criminal World, his fence who had a bunch of his money. I mean, at this point it's been three years so that guy was long on. He really had nothing and so he goes home and he bags Leona and Clifford for a chance and they're like, fine, you can sleep here.

49:02 But they are really trust him. His brothers and sisters are kind of doing their best in school and not following in their Big Brother's footsteps. Now despite the fact that the judge said no to parole Clifford got purple. So he had some probationary conditions, one of which is that he wasn't allowed to leave British Columbia, he had to report any change of address to the police immediately. And of course, when you're on probation, despite being free, you still feel kind of confined. And coincidentally, the day that he reported moving to New Westminster into one of those crap apartments that rents out beds to people and has as many people. And as possible, pretty much illegal housing. But that's what he moved to the police, showed up that day because there had been burglaries and New Westminster, Very quickly.

49:55 I local pawnshop reporters, the police that some of those missing items had been Pond there. And, of course, the person who had pawned, it was Clifford Olson jr. And within weeks of being released, he is back in jail again, awaiting trial goodness. And there is none of that. Oh, he's just a young boy, he needs another chance. No court appointed attorney could not do anything for him. He's a career criminal at 19, open-and-shut 10 years. Also, they're like you're going to British Columbia Penitentiary, which is maximum security. And while Haney had not been the most Pleasant event positive place, they wanted it to be.

50:39 It was Leaps and Bounds better than British Columbia. Penitentiary BCP was built in 1878. It looks like a giant foreboding Castle which is super interesting because Eastern State Penitentiary is in Philadelphia. Also looks like a giant foreboding Castle. I'm like, wow. Look for jails. At the time, the the county prison in Lancaster is, yes, yes. Looks like a giant for boating. At least the one part they've changed like the one part to make it more modern but the the intake area the front of it looks like a giant castle.

51:20 Like this was very much a thing. We did in the 1800s, early 90s, interesting enough and BCPS history. There have been riots Riots in the 30s that were due to them. Not paying prisoners for their labor and it actually ended up with Canada, completely reforming, prison, labor laws because of it. Now, eventually BCP will get decommissioned in 1980 before our boy Clifford left it, it was one of the most dangerous presence in Canada mainly because of the people who were there, the guards and the inmates are in a constant battle of wills Clifford walks into an environment. That is On edge and Clifford is placed in a cell with serial rapist, Gary, Marco, Gary was known for a lot of sexual aggression, among the other prisoners, which mostly went unchecked.

52:13 And so, the guards assume that Clifford is going to immediately get sexually assaulted by Gary. But something else happens, he becomes his friend and he straight up plays his roommate. Like, you know, I'm the new guy I just want to Learn what this place is like and eventually he gets Gary to confess about the rape and murder of a little girl that the police hadn't been able to attach him to. So of course he immediately Weigel's that information in front of the guards, who put him in the room with the warden and the Warrens like listen, this means nothing jailhouse. Confession means, absolutely nothing. If you can give us some evidence And we can talk about it. Got to be someone, that's it, miscible in court. So, over the next couple of months, Clifford, is just trying to maintain this friendship with Gary but also trying to push him for details.

53:07 And in the end it's not his. His gift to talk that gets the confession. See BCP has a bustling illegal alcohol, ring at the time and Clifford exchanged. A couple favors with people and he got himself some Hooch and he shared it with his roommate. In fact, he gave most of it To Gary after lights out as Clifford didn't really drink that much and he coerces Gary, and to writing down a confession and signing it while he's drunk Gary passes out. And when he wakes up he expects to see Clifford.

53:48 Also hung over but his soul mates not there and so he remembers this confession and rips the cell apart looking For it. He looked, he talks to the other inmates and they're all like, oh, Clifford's in solitary. We don't know why. We just woke up and he's in solitary confinement and they said he's going to be there for a really long time. The next couple of hours, the police show up and pull Gary out of prison. And they also take Clifford out and they're both held at a different location until the court date. They show up and Gary and tends to say oh he made it all up, it was a lie but Clifford gets the chance to speak first at court and he Tells the true story of what happened.

54:29 He's like, listen, we both got really drunk and he admitted everything to me and I told him that it would make him feel better if he wrote it down and that, of course, you know, he had to add a little flavor to it and say, you know, I had to give this to the Warren because I just couldn't sleep in the same room as someone who did such a horrible thing to a little girl. Oh my god, of course. Yes. Gay, of course, tries to discredit Clifford on the stand and all falls flat because Gary Marco is already convicted rapist and Clifford's only Burglar, he'd never heard anybody that they know about the lawyers, try to prove that Clifford's lying, but essentially because Clifford got on the stand and admitted to committing a crime that would technically add more time, do a sentence.

55:11 It made his story more credible, right? Yeah, that drinking like, tidally he admitted to something that it was a crime. Yeah, I'm definitely even if it wasn't that like in real life because I think he's tired, I don't know that. I think the age for alcohol is like, 18 in Canada, but the issue is that I don't think anywhere. You're allowed to just make your own your own Hooch. Bathroom think that violates a bunch of laws to. But either way, this changes Gary, Marcos sentence from 25 years to a full life sentence and he gets transferred to a different prison so that Clifford can go back to British Columbia.

55:52 Very quietly. The warden reduces Clifford sentence. Now, he only has to do two and a half more years. He only spent like, six months in prison at this point, so it's not a bad deal and he's pretty excited about it when he gets to the prison, but then the truth of what happened begins to go around. And of course the other prisoners are like oh you're not trustworthy and they started getting pretty hostile spitting on him as he walks past the cells, pushing him in the line. Her line threatening to kill him. You sided with the police that's Unforgivable. Since Clifford is entrusted by the end mates, he couldn't get close enough to them to get the gossip to give to the guards.

56:35 And without that information, the guards don't really care about him anymore. Pretty much. He realizes that he only has two and a half years left, but they're going to suck really bad. The thing that worry Clifford the most though is that there was always, this strange undercurrent of unhappiness and anger in the prison. And he was worried that when the violence happened, he was going to be on the side of people getting hurt. So, one day, there's a small prison Uprising, and I actually looked up all the prison Uprising says, wasn't considered to be big enough for them to report at. They weren't all that uncommon you know, and made throws something or gets an aggressive with a guard other people join. And answer the guards, rushed to the that special room to grab their right gear, break up the chaos and all goes back to normal.

57:24 But essentially what Clifford does is when the guards rushed to the Gear room, he sort of hides in the shadows and he waits until they're all geared up and before the door can close, he slips through and walks out of the prison. Because the guards all rushed to the area where the trouble was. I guess that this wasn't one of the major riots, but it was big enough that it took them a couple days to figure out where everybody was. They usually when there's a riot though, the leaders of the Rebellion get moved taken a cord injured. Guards, injured inmates, it couldn't be fit in the infirmary. Have to go to local hospitals. Finally, after, like, two or three days, they're just like We're missing somebody.

58:14 We're missing Clifford Olson. And at first, they were kind of confused because they're like, wait, there's no way you just dropped his 10-year sentence down to two, who would risk all that with an asleep Clifford was, in fact, at first, the police are like, are you sure you just didn't lose him, through paperwork. Like maybe he's at another prison and he got moved around when everybody else got moved around. And so they go and check with other facilities and finally, they're like no, he's definitely not here. They start setting up checkpoints and things but Clifford's no longer anywhere near the first night. He did sleep under the Queensboro Bridge in New Westminster who and within a couple days. He's now, front page knows they track down his family, including his siblings, who are away at different schools, has mom. Leona does a TV interview crying, just, you know, please, turn yourself and save yourself for the present time Clifford seniors on TV.

59:14 Like, he knows what he's facing, he might have to serve 10 years. He doesn't give Self up. I hope they get him before. He does something really bad. He's done. Bad enough already, those two interviews. Actually, the last public interviews to the Olson family would ever make about their son covers, obviously didn't see this because he was nowhere. There was a television. He was stealing clothes and backpacks and heading into the woods. He thought the police were going to check the city's first and all of his old friends and his old haunts. But in fact, they were like, no, we're checking everywhere, including the country. Side. He was definitely clever but he didn't realize there would be dogs.

59:54 And one dog in particular was named rentee and Randy. The police dog found him hiding in blackberry bushes which actually have a lot of thorns. So it had to have been pretty painful and Clifford had gotten himself. So stuck in the bushes, they had to physically cut him out of it, full of thorns, and a couple of dog bites because rentee was very excited. They return him back to be CP. Add an additional year to a sentence because of all the good behavior and compliance mattered more to the police than anything else. The guards in the warden actually take the blame for his Escape saying you know, it was a riot. He'd never been a ride before. He was probably just really scared and ran away from the violence. The prisoners are like not only is he friends with cops but now the cops are taking his side.

1:00:44 He might as well just be a cop to him. Uh-huh. So of course there are now rumors that Clifford is getting special treatment and the only way that that ends with people trying to kill him Yep, Clifford's in a bad place. He knows that there's no way he's going to be able to escape like normal. So, one night he takes the little razor out of his out of his shaver and cuts his wrists. And when this does the cell doors open in the morning, the guides are like, wow. Well uh we're gonna send a doctor about an hour and they take him to the hospital and like when I go like listen we don't have anybody on site. Who can help you?

1:01:24 You gotta wait here. I even like thanks the guards, he's like being very nice to them, they end up having to transfer him to a local hospital. And while he's in the hospital, he is of course prospecting. They Stitch him up and leave him alone in the hospital room. He steals another patients, close changes in the bathroom and walks out of the building. Three guards were sent to watch him. I don't know what they were doing. But he walked right by him this time though. Clever. It's like I have a plan. I'm not just going to wander around and hope for the best. I need to leave Canada. I ain't got a care of it as soon as possible to a place where I don't have a record. I America.

1:02:09 So he's heading south and he goes Inland, avoiding major cities. He breaks in a rural properties leaving behind their valuables, but stealing things like canned, food and clothes and blankets and a gun. He didn't want to hurt anybody but he was prepared to if he had to unfortunately. Intelligence gets him in trouble again because he isn't stealing the things that you would normally steal. So, the police are like, that's got to be him. Who else is only stealing survival supplies and heading towards the American Border? The man who just escaped? Yep. So they put out border patrol near New Westminster. And for people who don't know, you can take a train right now from New Westminster to Seattle, it's like two hours and only cost you 40 bucks. It's really not that far, so it's not really a surprise to the police that he's trying to get to America. The problem is, they need to get to him before he is deep within America.

1:03:02 Tea leaves like the woods of of the northern part of the of America and hits the city. They won't be able to track him anymore. He can just change his name and disappear. So clever finally gets to the place where he's going to try and cross the border. It's like a park and there's nobody there and he turns the corner on. There are two teenagers out for a walk. He's exhausted and panicked. And later the teenager told the police that he didn't aim the gun at them, but he started waving it around and screaming at them that they were ruining everything. He makes them swear that they won't tell anyone anything they saw and he takes off running. And of course, the first thing these kids do is go to the police station and tell the police. There's a Madman in the woods screaming. So, of course, the police take down and subscription dark-haired guy, medium-sized, mid-20s messy hair and they're like, oh yeah, that's him.

1:03:57 And so all of border patrol are out and they swarm that park within minutes cliff. Here's this and he lays down on the floor of the form of the forest. It's not funny, I'm sorry. He covers himself with leave and he's just perfectly. Still to the point where he can see the feet and the legs, the police walking by him. And the worst thing is, he doesn't realize that the feet. He seeing are not Royal Canadian Mounted Police. These are Washington state police officers. who have been called out and told that there was a Canadian ex-con who had entered illegally, Okay. Another police dog would be the one who ruined Clifford's Escape.

1:04:47 There you go. Pepper was named tiger. No mines. Uh, yeah. Good boy, tiger. I can only imagine what this looks like their police all over the area. And then tiger the police dog, just kind of walks up to a pile of leaves and begins barking at it. And Clifford looks at the dog's face and just kind of sits up and gives the side And puts his gun down, and he's like, listen, I know I'm a son of a bitch, but I'm not a dog killer and so they take him to Blaine Washington to be processed and then they returned him to British Columbia Penitentiary. now, interestingly enough after the second escape attempt, the prisoners are kind of like, how'd you do that? There are more escapes.

1:05:34 I'm not gonna bore you with all of them just telling you the more interesting ones virtually any time prisoners or guards. Begin to trust Clifford. He destroys that trust. He escaped another time which I said it ascends he started to get that sentence removed again and honestly it look like he was going to stay in prison forever with this process of him, escaping and being put back and escaping and being put back but ultimately what gets him officially Released is the problem with having a prison that's almost 100 years old. It was falling apart. So after Clifford's fourth Escape they had to shut down one of the Wings due to structural damage and this wasn't just like the roof is but they were having roof problems. But also electrical systems that would fail which would leave the prisoners in complete darkness or the doors which is open which we also can't have the plumbing was constantly backing up which was being helped by the fact that the prisoners were sabotaging the plumbing.

1:06:37 And so they decide we're going to close a couple wings. The one and we'll keep only the ones that are in the best shape and the excess prisoners can be. Some can be sent to other facilities or temporary placement, which you usually only get when your time is done or some are offered early release for having a good track record. And despite the fact that Clifford was flighty, he did have an exemplary prison record. So they pull a man in there. Like, listen, we're gonna release you, but you have to go to your parole officer every week and stay out of trouble. Which I think you know where we're going with this any time, he's not at the parole officers, he's out committing crime.

1:07:20 Oh yeah, of course. Like I'm going to do that. All my wages referral officer or when they catch him this time they charged him with assault armed robbery breaking and entering and forgery. Whoa, drunk driving. Oh my God. And in the car that was stolen. He had a bunch of the other stuff he had recently stolen Back to ship back to British Columbia, penitentiary. To one of his original cells, which was a good one. The thing is, the guards actually loved it. When Clifford was back in prison because when Clifford is in prison, we know everything happening inside the walls of the prison. And so, of course, he starts feeding the information about all the inmates.

1:08:02 The problem is the prison is now half the size that it used to be. And it's very small, small enough that people know that he was the one who was there. When certain information was discussed, right? And the death strength start coming in and the warden. And the guards are like this is serious, but instead of putting him in isolation, they offer him early release. You know, he's gonna run away again, right? Very similar to Charles Manson Clifford Olson. Jr. Has no idea. I had exist in the regular world as a regular person. He has at this point completely institutionalized.

1:08:44 But He knows how things work in prison and he knows how to steal, and the police get it in their mind that they can kind of harness his ability to keep him out of present. As long as they do, he does things to keep the police happy as an informant. We don't care if he's doing some petty theft. In fact, he becomes one of the best, informants at the British Columbia Police have. At this time, he shares every detail except for the crimes that he's committed himself. And then sometimes he even drops them information about crimes where he is so that it doesn't look like he's on their payroll, but no charges ever seem to stick and he gets released every time.

1:09:34 So the thing is British Columbia Police at this time, we're more concerned about the charges, being cleared through the information, they got from Clifford than what he was up to. And this transactional relationship actually goes on for a few years, but of course, there were limits So Clifford began to shift from crimes where he had to physically be there to more cons. So instead of burglaries and muggings now, he's working fraud and forgery. There were also these were all crimes more likely to give him money and there's less violence. At this point. He's broken the conditions of his parole hundreds of times, at least from what I calculated. Ultimately, he will have over 90 convictions, a total of seven prison escapes out of that. 25 year period. He spends about four years outside of jail, a little under 1200 days.

1:10:32 I actually had it wrong in the beginning. I said 1500, I gave him the benefit of the doubt, actually twelve hundred days is like 11, something it's not, they don't keep putting them back in prison, they absolutely keep putting them back. The misdemeanors they let slide but you know, once you move on to the big things like fraud and forgery, you gotta go back for a little bit. Yeah, at this point, British Columbia prison is closed, but it's not fully decommission until 1980 but the prison is virtually not being used at all. So they take him to Prince Albert, penitentiary in Saskatchewan and Prince. Albert prison was a medium-security prison. That ended up having to increase its clearance because some of the inmates from BCP had been sent there.

1:11:13 So you got this weird amalgamation of a prison that's like half high-security with like super restrictions and then the other half people just get to do whatever they want all the time. I honestly don't know if there are maximum security prisons at the same place, usually, even if they're on the same, like lat, they're normally their own confined spaces, right? This was together, and that's very weird. This place had loads of Got Drugs, loads of gangs, lots of Contraband and that's very weird for Clifford because he's used, always being on lockdown.

1:11:54 So there was never any time for like gangs. Bonds to be formed at BCP because they were never allowed to be that alone with each other for very long. But since people at Prince, Albert had all this free time. They socialized. Found Mutual reasons to hate each other. Clifford, just the norm, you know, starts contacting the guards, makes the Warren has new best friend offers to give them information for early parole, and he kinds of settles into his social hierarchy. At this prison, the gangs are willing to talk to him. But since he won't declare that, he's a member of any gang. That means they get tired of him pretty quickly and kind of kick them out and kind of put him in a place where he can't do what he's good at because he needs to see the crimes in order to be able to mark. So he can't get in good with the gangs he does. Watching the prisoners and places where the guards don't allow don't always watch.

1:12:47 And when his first month, he gives the warden a list of all the drug carriers in the prison and he goes back to gen pop and the guards rush in and start knocking people to the ground and ripping their clothes apart and throws people. This throws, the whole prison to a rep uproar because the addicts don't have their supply and the gangs make all their money off the attics and everybody shuts down ranks, trying to figure out who the leak is Clifford. Doesn't realize his mistake, until it's too late. In a low-security prison, there are places that guards do not patrol all the time. And those places are very dangerous for people like Clifford great. That's the stool pigeons. There's no way that a prison has this kind of drug operation in a Contraband operation. And there aren't guards who were in on it and those cards gave Clifford's name to the gangs and the Gang. Cornered him one day and we're like, it was you and Clifford was stabbed seven times.

1:13:42 And it wasn't so much that the stabbings weren't meant to kill him. The fecal covered blades. However, Were Meant to the, the infection was meant to kill him and he actually ended up in the hospital for several months. He had multiple serious infections, and then secondary infections, just stocked full of painkillers antibiotics, pretty much. By the time he was healthy enough to go back into the prison population. His parole was up again and the warden was just like, listen, he helped get the drugs out of our prison and And honestly if he goes back they're probably going to kill him this time. Oh yeah definitely. So they said I'm lost again but this time Clifford is 35 years old.

1:14:23 It's by 1975 and he finds himself relying. Very heavily on drugs. He knows he needs to kick the habit but he's really not ready to honestly. He slips up a couple more times, does a couple more bids in prison. Most of his white collar crimes. He never gets a conviction for. But in a pinch, he burglarized has a home Police know it's him. They go pick him up. He does a couple more months. He ends up back at Prince Albert, penitentiary. And he escapes after only having been gone for a few weeks at this point, he knows the prison backward and forward, by the time, the guards realize he isn't in the Mac security side. He's already outside of Saskatchewan. He ends up heading to Richmond.

1:15:08 I'm sorry. He has no friends. No connections and not much money, but he does steal a little bit. He runs a whole little apartment and the new Serie Village Apartments on King George Highway in August of Team 80. At 40 years old, he's never lived by himself ever, he gets odd jobs, very easy to hop on a labor construction site, sometimes he works as a gardener plumber, worked on heating. He would pretty much post on the local community boards that he was a handyman and a church catches his eye. Which is the people's Gospel Church in Surrey and he walks in and he meets a woman named Joan Hale and he begs her to put the ad up on the wall.

1:15:56 Joan was a little bit older than him, but he definitely looked a lot older than she did because time and prison. Clifford. Notice she didn't have a wedding ring. I'm silly flirt a little bit. And John Ford it back and he's like, wait, there's a woman who likes me. And she agrees to put his add up on the little church board and they have a dinner date. And later that night Joan was definitely the one who had experience in Romance Clifford had nothing other than I guess normal teenage heavy petting. Things thing is Joan was recently divorced and even in 1980 recently, divorced wasn't that great of a look. He didn't tell her whole lot about himself he's like you know, I was a little bit in trouble in the past and he did get everything out of Joan though that he could, he be pumped for information about everything in her life for history.

1:17:00 And a lot of people find that flattering And Jones like nobody ever no guy ever wants to know about all the things I'm thinking, but for people like me, I find that level of attention early to be kind of alarming. Because of my own experiences but also because of situations like this Con men. This is what they do. I mean we've talked we talked about this with the, you know, what's his name? Raymond Fernandez, the Lonely, Heart killer, right? And Martha. Like they, they probably full information, they make you feel great. And then they rob, you and is exactly what happened with the Tinder swindler and Tale As Old As Time. Don't give your money to men you just met please don't but Joan finds this flattering and Clifford learns that Joan had divorced her husband because he was an abusive alcoholic who beat her quite a lot.

1:17:58 And she had received a settlement from their divorce and that's what she was really living off of. It was by no means what she had been used to, but it was good enough for her to live off of. I don't really feel like Clifford have feelings for her but I think he knew that if he could convince her to be with him that he could get her. And so he kind of pressures her to get sexual with him and then pressures her to move in with him or more. He move in with her, definitely gaslighting her into thinking, that she's the one who wanted sex. She's the one who was pursuing him, and I'm not saying she didn't enjoy it, Clifford, treated Joan with a level of respect that she was used to, this is very reminiscent of what happened with Gary Ridgway and and Judith and that Judah that come from a very Horrible relationship and Gary Ridgway treat her like gold. And in this way Clifford didn't necessarily treat Joan, like gold, but It was way better than her acts and just a couple of months go by and they're living together, living in sin as both Joan, and my mother would have called it. And what Clifford looked at as a Khan was now something he was starting to get kind of involved in originally, he was just going to rob her and disappear and take all her money and now he's like well she makes me breakfast and lunch and dinner and she really likes me and it's really

1:19:31 nice to have somebody like you so And she's over here on her side, like he's so nice to me and he's really affectionate. And he's like, she's very agreeable and I think the modern guys would call that submissive. This is all so weird because all of Clifford's prior sexual experiences are violent. And he has no concept of intimacy, that isn't him being absolutely horrible. So now as a 40 year old man, he's experiencing a certain gentle kind of intimacy with Joan that he didn't really know what. As possible. And after some time, he's like being nice to her, not because he wants to robber, but for what she could give him the right. Yeah, he's still super selfish and he's absolutely living off of Jones money from her ex-husband and only working here and there whenever he feels like it. But, like I said, because Janet experience such severe abuse. She was pretty much.

1:20:28 Like, this isn't great what I'm getting right now, but it's way better ones like. Where is it? Hell and basically Clifford's, it's on the floor. So hey better, it's honors. Not on, it's not in Hell. 84 now, mind you Clifford starts this relationship. Remember, I told you, he escaped from prison a couple weeks after he had gotten taken back to Prince. Albert, he is now living with this lady in a whole different city, real comfortable at this point. And he's like, I want to explore Not in a good way though. Okay. I want two Double-Double back in crime again and no, it's not good.

1:21:13 No, it's not. He's like I have my old apartment still, I can drop things off there and I can crash there if I've been drinking and he even loves Joe know that he has the other apartment and one day he doesn't show up with the rent payment and the landlord who knows, Joan is like, yo, did Clifford to Clifford just forget the today was rent. A Jones like I thought he was at the apartment and they're like, well where the hell is, he clever, is in jail, because a woman in town, just accused him of rape. And the police have not realized that they have wanted Clifford Olson on their hands. And unfortunately, they think that the woman is not a reliable witness and the case and Clifford's, like has gonna get thrown out.

1:21:58 But in the meantime, he's just sitting there and prison afraid to call Jonah, bail them out, because who wants to explain to your girlfriend at the reason Why you're in prison is because you raped a local prostitute see while he had been enjoying a lot of that gentle intimacy with Joan. He still had real dark thoughts about sex and in his head sex and violence are connected. And there is a high he gets from being violent, and he wants to feel that high. So, the night of the attack, he got high on pills and goes bar hopping, and his victim said that he approached her at a bar. He was very Charming. He flashed her some cash and she thought they were going to have a mutual beneficial evening, that is until they got to the hotel and he put a belt around her neck and began punching her in the back and kidneys and beating the absolute crap out of her.

1:22:49 Despite the fact that he wasn't the biggest guy. He did a number on this woman and then after the fact, he sexually assaulted her and left, her bloody and bruised on the floor of the motel, he later tells the police, this was entirely consensual And he was right. The police do throughout the complaint and they release him from prison after. He had been there for two weeks. Now, the entire time, he's in there. He is just thinking about killing this woman. How dare? She turned me in. She got me in trouble. She almost messed up my life, dude. Yes.

1:23:34 All you. In fact he doesn't even go home. The Joan first, he goes to the streets and start talking to everybody. He knows Drug World. Prostitution world trying to track her down and nobody knows where she is. She disappeared. Thankfully, So he goes to Joan and he tells her a sort of sanitized version of what happened. That's woman, blamed him for something he didn't do and that's why he was in prison and normally Joan would have been pissed, but Joan thought she had been an early menopause and found out while he was gone that she was pregnant. So as soon as he walks in the door, this is everyone's swept up in the news, we're going to have a baby and he doesn't even have to explain in depth. Where he was that you start looking for a new home, they can have room for this baby, they're talking about marriage, something that they'll either of them had really wanted, but now they're like screw it.

1:24:34 Let's do it and they set the date for May of 1981. and that's actually where I'm going to stop because things, take a Very dark turn from this point forward. This was the funnier part of his life with a lot of weirdness, but he began the majority of his crimes, take place between 1980 and 1981. Which means the Year we're about to discuss is pretty extensive and I wanted to give the victims the attention they deserve and not just gloss over who he killed.

1:25:17 So next week is where we're going to discuss the more deadly things and the actual rather ridiculous resolution to all of this Okay. Canada did a thing that made a lot of people angry and regard to Clifford Olson. And we're going to kind of explore how that happened. I think Canada has done a couple of things with serial killers that have made a lot of people upset as well. Like, this isn't like the first to give you, is that Involved paying a serial killer to tell you where the bodies were come.

1:26:01 What? What we'll learn about it next week. Time to move on oh my god of already mad at new and that's why I was like we have to get into how that happened because that's a big part of the story and it's real wild. Oh my God. What do you have for us today? Brian. Okay. Well, moving on, I guess. Okay, so today's tale comes to me from well means where's is a TV show but it came to me from my son. Okay. Oh, interesting.

1:26:42 Yeah, so Jaden has been watching some shows on his tablet. Hmm. Liquor cartoons. Not like anything bad and, you know, he trans he not only does he watchin on his tablet, he watches on the TV as well. And I'm just sick, I'm sitting here watching this show with him one day and was like, yo, this show is really good because it has like a lot of Miss A logical stuff in it. Like a lot of like Legends like yeah, I'm just like this, this is a cool show. What's this show called? And it's, I don't know if you heard this before, but it's called Victor and Valentino and it's on Cartoon Network.

1:27:24 Well, I think it was on carts, and I'm not sure if it's still on Cartoon Network or not. And Victor and Valentino. It's basically done. Give you like the little short synopsis that I got on ID. I am whatever. I am. I am DV. There you go. Imdb. Oh I know but I am too because I have an IMDb page. Yeah, you do. But okay, so this is the series follows two brothers. They're actually I think they're two half-brothers, but I'm not sure that they're two brothers and they're very opposite from each other. And they spend the summer with their grandma in a small town called Monte Macabre, okay? And it's a small mysterious town. Do they actually said, call it Macabre, or they call it McCobb. I think it's like a bright because I'm like, if it's a kid, the kid might say it wrong.

1:28:22 And it's a small mysterious town where Miss in legends of Latin America, folklore, come to life. And I'm like, oh, so I get to let you get the watch the freaking cartoon about like, Latin American myths and stuff like that. That's awesome. It's definitely don't cover La Llorona though, because that would be terrifying for children. Look here. They do. They cover some free stuff too? Yeah, there is also concern and one, the one episode I was watching. So they try to make this corn maze, right? And they try to make a haunted corn maze but it's not scary, of course.

1:29:03 So there one creepy friend, she's like, hey, I know this guy who make this corner, he's extra scary for you for everybody and so they go and find this guy. He's a skeleton type of guy, he wears like this big old like I don't know, like a wheat hat and he's scarecrow sort of, and he basically is a bonus dealer, he steals clothes, and they showed us in the episode of him stealing, everybody's Bloom. Absolutely.

1:29:46 So this is who I am talking about today and his name. Stealer is actually the whistle man, but it's is, his name is actually else upon whistling, man, and cool. Yeah, yeah, I loved it, and I was like, I gotta talk about, I got it, talk about this. So this comes with a creepypasta story attached to it, so I'm going to do that first and then we'll go more into A creepypasta that's about is this like Slenderman, but Latin America. They come up with Slender Man.

1:30:31 First, this is a hotel, so I'm going to say, yes. Hmm. All right, so I'm gonna start with the Creepypasta, Elsa bone, the man who whistles, that's actually what it means. Okay, I like it. When I was a little kid, my mother would tell me about Elsa Bond or the man who whistles in English. The legend of else upon varies from person to person. But this is the version I grew up with and personally Lee the one I find most frightening. So there was once a boy who lived happily with his mother and father, and grandfather and lows, I know it's gonna stumble this llanos.

1:31:16 I'm going to say that a region in Venezuela who else is too loud. Hells. Yeah. Janos giannios most of the Y sound, just like Jay and a why? Somebody correct me please. Anyway it's a region in Venice. Yeah, Janos. Yeah. That sounds good actually won in both Colombia and Venezuela. That's confusing. Well, I guess the same place this tail actually takes place. Like the the Elsa Bond. His Legend takes place in Venezuela and Colombia, so I'm going to say yes, maybe. Yeah, I'm okay, this is it vast tropical grassland plane to the east of the Andes. It's in both, Colombia and Venezuela, I guess it crosses the country line.

1:32:07 Interesting. I love him so much today. They live the simple life of farming. However, the boy is a parents raised was it looked very spoiled. He would not eat certain foods and would cry out until his parents pleased him. One day, the boy asked his father to hunt deer for them to eat as the deer was his favorite. The Falls are decided to please his son and hunted deer for him to eat. Sadly, after hours of searching, he failed to return with anything ever. So hungry upon, seeing that his father had returned empty-handed. He took his father's hunting knife and killed him with it. Oh my God.

1:32:53 At that moment. The mother and the grandfather rust outside, only to find a boy standing over his boss. His father's corpse as a mother cried for her husband, the grandfather took it upon themselves to punish the boy. First, he tied, the boy to a tree and with a whip, he struck his back repeatedly until he bled, then he would squeeze lemons on his back and finally slaves. Yeah. Finally, he gave him a sack filled with his father's remains, and cast him away into the planes, to carry them. As he's has he as he was set, As he as his grandfather, sent the dogs after the child.

1:33:48 But before he ever all your Dad's remains at the dog, obviously, obviously didn't care about him that much. Right? Yeah. But before he unleashed the dogs, as the boy walked away his grandfather, cursed him. Wow. Only I'm gonna try it. I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna do it. Says Sol no se Le sale. A Ha say a su Padre. Maldito is maldito is a towel La Vida. Probably could have found somebody on YouTube and just played that.

1:34:28 Yeah, I know but I wanted to do it. Okay, okay gotta work on your pronunciation sir I really do. I really like the best for Spanish either. I've made some really bad blenders when it comes to Spanish and I Should know better because I took years and years of Spanish. And it basically translates to you should not have done that to your father, you will be damned for the rest of your life. Is Grandfather, yellowed? As he released his grip on the ropes and freed the dogs. As the dogs chased him the boy whistled and a very distinct manner following the that's traditional musical scale, do re me fa so la ti bosola. See do or c, d e, f g.

1:35:19 A b c. Wait. It's so it was Spurs. Do do do do do do do do like really. Yes works. Yeah that's the whispered. That's not scary. That's the whistle. Yeah. Well I mean, any sort of sounds in the wilderness are frightening to be fair. Yeah, like if you hear a whistling in the woods like that, I would be it would be very odd to me as someone who spent years in Porous to hear. Someone singing scales and walking through the woods, I'm like true, our choir member lost This, he whistled until the dogs come often finally caught up to him.

1:36:02 And so the boy was cursed left, wandering the plains bringing death to anyone whom he may happen to cross. Unlike other urban legends of my country Elsa bond does not prefer. Sue is like I cannot talk specific brand of victims. He is regarded as As an omen of death, for anyone who wanders, the planes at night, he would follow his victims first from afar until gradually catching up to them. He is tricky 4 for 4, at Firs. You were here, his whistling coming, very close prompting you to run away and as you hear the whistling Fading Into distance you feel relief and you think that means you're safe but in reality The first is our whistle, the closer.

1:36:57 He is, he will have. It's like, he's like goes who cares. Ha ha ha. He will have an old farming hat. He will be very skinny. But what will set him apart is that he will be carrying a large sack, which clicks and Clacks, as he walks some say that Side to side or the bones of his latest victims, but more likely they are the bones of his father. He is destined to carry them forever. And that is the Creepypasta. Love it.

1:37:39 Sino did he say, where he learned that story from that person? Yeah, it was is a think it was. His his mother. His mother told us is like, why do our parents is this Catholic thing? They tell stories to scare the shit out of us like and it's always real terrible. Hmm. Like obviously I've talked about my, my grandmother telling me about the humanoid Creature in the woods that pretends to look like you and also sometimes looks like animals and mimics people and so if you hear somebody outside that sounds like somebody you think it is it's probably not them.

1:38:22 Yeah. Yeah. I'm like why do parent why are y'all doing this to your children? This is terrible. Just because just because, but yeah like like we mentioned earlier that this does come from like the Venezuelan and Colombian folklore since there's some that we're cool. Yeah, it's like right on the plains of Illustrated planes, there are two other versions of this story. Oh yeah. Like the first one that when I told you it was like one of the first versions. And then the second one is that, I mean, it has the same thing as a boy, I wanted to eat something in his dad.

1:39:09 You know came back empty-handed hunting and then the kid got angry and killed his dad but he killed his dad. And then he brought no one like his parents. His mother in the grandfather, didn't see this. So he just brought his dad's. Oregon's to be cooked and later on his mom found out, that it wasn't an animal and that's when the grandfather tied him to a tree. And the rest of the story is basically the same and the third one Okay, so the boy can read it.

1:39:55 The boy becoming before, becoming to whistle man was a temperamental, young boy who had everything he wanted. And one day, he went hunting in the plains with his father. Well, they were walking a Tristan Twisted tree stepped in their way. The boy asked his father to straighten it out, but the father It. No, it's just a twisted tree, never straightens. You know that after that the boy told his father, if you always knew it, why did you let me grow that? The way I am like a twisted tree. Now, I will never be able to change the way I am and it's your fault. Okay.

1:40:37 Then the boy killed his father brought back. You know, his father's stuff and gave it to his mother to cook. My mother found out is that it was an animal. So she talked her father-in-law and, you know, that story's the same as okay, I know. Alright. And that's how it ends, everything, everything ends, the same with their grandfather or tie them up to a tree and whipped his back. And he has to carry a sack of his father's remains. Okay. So the legend says that he became a Dream Eater told It was long legs who is seen during dry season at the top of the trees playing with dust and it during the raining season seasons.

1:41:34 Like, around the months of May at any time anywhere roaming, he's seen roaming with a thirst for vengeance, hunting drunk. Like his main victims are drunk men. He hits, he hits them with a stick until he kills them sucks. Her belly button sucks, on your belly button to extract the alcohol from their bodies and then he eats the rest of them. Leaving like just bones left and then all while he's whistling his scales. He does it, he does it ascending and he does a descending. So he uses here to the scales going up and down. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that is so weird. I'm sorry, it's so weird.

1:42:32 I can't get past the fact that it's just so weird. Oh goodness. But yeah. Is so if you hear the whistling and is close by that means he's far away. But if you hear far away, that means he's really close to you and you should fucking run. Yeah, I don't know how you move in that situation again. Like you're screwed and you should just like, sit down and cry, sit down, just wait for it to get far away. So he he gets to you. It's about right? It's a feels, yeah. So a Venezuelan poet and writer. His name is got these names. I'm sorry.

1:43:16 His name is Tomas. 0 Del gado gado, gado gado and he was the first one to write the story of the whistle man and he wrote his back in 1966 and he I guess he, yeah, I guess he recorded it in 1967 and the record if broadcasted all over the country on the radio. Yeah. So, and this was in Venezuela. Where is where it's like, the legend became famous. He the muscle.

1:43:57 He's like, no, I've heard this. This guy before, I've heard someone like whistling and die. Yes. You know why? There's there's one weakness of else upon and that is the sound of dogs barking with that. If he if he because you know since that was like his demise was having the dogs chase after him. Yeah, he's scared of dogs, especially dogs barking at him. Okay. Okay, I like that.

1:44:38 So, the ma. So he's like, this is how I survived because there were dogs around a soccer ball barking and he just, you know, I was a bond ran away. These count, I don't know, because they do like a little yet bark. I don't know. But she's trying to survive here. Yeah. So this is, I'm going to give you like, the little poem that he wrote says, one fateful night in and develops with Venezuelan planes and enraged. Father, at least a true tragedy. Father, I've told you not to bring that whore into the family is a different tale already.

1:45:27 This is a different tale already. Whoa. oh, Okay. Talking. Is this Grandpa? I'm pretty sure is Grandpa Grandpa. It's not her fault that they gave birth to a devil. Child, you're right. It's your genes to and obviously since you can curse people, you got the abilities in the family. This is true like father like son, the young man couldn't change contain his rage. And so he hid his father A bit of his own medicine when the boy's grandfather found out what happened.

1:46:13 Oh no. So it was the dad, apparently, this is a different story. He brought somebody home, who he wasn't supposed to decayed did and then the father got upset, and then the young man killed. His dad and his grandfather found out what happened. He punished him. Like, people used to used to punish he cursed him to wander. Without rest for all eternity and handed him over to the dogs so they could finish him off. The story does not end there, the boy revived and he continued to wander the sabana carrying his father's remains in the bag, murdering women izing went, women, Rising men, always whistling his infernal, mentally Melody. When you hear it close by, he's far away, and when you hear it far away, It's close to this day, it continues to happen in the Venezuelan Plains.

1:47:11 So yeah, he attacks drunk men and women eyes others as well. Womanizers. Womanizers, interesting. Yeah. And like, that's basically it was like and on a TV show. He's a skinny skeleton guy, right? And he basically just Stills, the bones like he was still your bones. All your bones he'll whistle and like use magic to take all the bones out of your body. And just put them in his sack.

1:47:55 And like I guess he had like some type of whistle contest at the end you know, because it's a kid show. So at an episode we like make this like whistle contest and it's a win, all the bones back from everybody. But yeah, like this is what happens, he takes bones of womanizers and drunk people and he just puts them in a sack. Hmm. And if you hear him whistling, don't be around to hear him whistling anymore. I don't know. But yeah, I don't like this. It was just a a he's a very interesting person in.

1:48:38 Like, in this folklore, like, it just caught my eyes and like I can show you a picture. Like if you all right, I will show you a picture of the one that the original, the original artist did. The original poet. I should say and save & send and Discord because yeah, That's where I send all my creepy. It's looking at our stream of weird photos using weirdo. Cryptids left and right weirdo.

1:49:25 Thick boys. We're here. The way things saved under you go, okay. To my computer. There you go. Look at this guy. He's a skinny guy running around with shorts on, hairy legs, gaunt face. He has carrying a sack that you can see bone sticking out of the back. Yes, Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1:50:16 All right. All right. Well that's that's who I got for today. Hope you all enjoyed it. That that was a time. Yeah. It's great to be back. Yeah, and listen had so much fun today in a strange way. I know some people don't like funny, True Crime podcast. I try to temper the the seriousness of a little bit of humor here and there but thanks so much for listening. If you're still here I am actually going to put the thick dudes back up on the limited sale for people who are interested because So, the first to both the a Squatch and Mothman are booty-ful Mothman will be back on sale and their stickers, and other fun things. At one Killers.

1:51:24 Get caught dot shop, So that hopefully by the Fall, we will have a new thick did ready for you all. Oh, yes we will. We'll have more believe me. I've been getting questions. Like, when are you going to order another one? Yes, believe me. I got y'all nice. I'll be ready next week with the rest of the ridiculous story of Clifford Olsen. Yes. The weekend. See you.