The hunt for the Grim Sleeper and the Apology Line

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Hey everyone in serial killer
country.

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My name is Brittany Ransom.
And my name is Brian Joyner, and

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this is When Killers Get Caught.
A podcast devotes deep dives

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into the lives of killers we
love to learn about.

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And each week Brian and I will
discuss two true crime stories

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that resonated with us.
And then I will lead you down

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the dark path of learning about
who that killer was, how they

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grew up, how they killed, and
most importantly, how they got

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caught.
Then Brian will slow things down

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and give us a walk through the
creepier side of life, Sometimes

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paranormal, sometimes cryptids,
and sometimes just weird things

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that happen.
Just a teeny tiny reminder that

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This coming episode for this
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through 40 minutes of a
discussion of every conspiracy

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theory around the Kardashian
family.

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So fun.
It actually ended up being a lot

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of fun, even though he was very
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terrible.
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We have a new merch drop, a new
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name is The Ass Watch.
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about that.
It's beautiful.

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You can imagine what it might
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Bosey Doodles, outdid
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It was incredible.
Anything that you could do,

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anything you can do, buy things,
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We're trying to get new
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so much.
Thank you for your support.

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Thank you for some of you who
have been here since the first

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episode.
You have no idea how when I am

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feeling real down, that makes me
feel a lot better.

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Now this week in True Crime, I I
am not a huge fan of.

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I didn't watch the Tinder
swindler, let's put it that way,

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because I was like, yeah, this
goes on.

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I mean, it's the same thing that
happened with Bell Gunness, but

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this one popped on to my radar
this year because this is a

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serial con man who they are
referring to as the man of

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uncountable identities.
Police have referred to him as a

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shapeshifter, and so his real
name, we do have a real name for

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him is Joseph Corey.
But like, even in the newspaper

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article, they're just showing
piles of his driver's license.

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Michael Arthur Weston.
Aaron Schwartz, Jason Levy.

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Like, he just has a million
identities.

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I don't even know how you make
that happen.

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He has dozens of different bank
accounts.

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Like, don't they check you
through a system when you start

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a new bank account?
I think so.

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But then, you know, using a
different Social Security number

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and all this other stuff, maybe
that's is it that.

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Well, that's that's stuff you
can easily like a black market,

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deep web, stuff like that.
You know what I mean?

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Either way.
So Joseph Corey is currently in

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trouble because as he pretended
to be a doctor and he scammed a

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bunch of different companies out
of money.

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He was saying like I have my
private practice and I need to

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raise money for these expensive
machines for my business and he

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has admitted to stealing $3.5
million.

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The federal government thinks
it's a lot closer to 14,000,000

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but apparently 3.5 is all we can
prove right now.

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The other situation is that he
completed the the hospital fraud

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or the medical fraud while he
was already on the run from a

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previous fraud case where he had
been given a nine year sentence.

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So he's doing fraud on top of
fraud?

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Yeah.
So that one was a lot smaller.

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Actually, it was in 2019 was
Before 2 that he got found

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guilty in 2019 for stealing
$370,000 from an international

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hotel chain through somehow
depositing fraudulent checks

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into an account he set up
through them.

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Which is another thing I didn't
know you could do.

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Apparently I'm just too poor to
know about how like

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international banking and things
work.

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I didn't know that you could
deposit a check with a hotel and

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pull that money out like they
were a.

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Bank I didn't.
Know you could do that either.

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Listen, us broke folk, listen.
Don't even know.

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Don't even know.
Regardless, so he got in trouble

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for that in 2019.
And his response?

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To getting a nine year sentence
was to flee and rip off at least

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10 lenders they found so far and
still three and a half million

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dollars.
And so when he got caught for

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that, he then had all the money
shifted into gold coins, had

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those gold coins sent to
different post office boxes

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where he then picked them all up
and then dipped out to Mexico.

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So that was just 20/20.
He had listen, the rest of us

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were in quarantine.
He was living the life.

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And then it took the feds a year
to find him in.

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They found him in Monterrey,
Mexico in 2021.

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And so now he's back in the
States.

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He's been extradited.
He they even found an ID for the

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CIA.
Like that's how many different

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identification cards he had.
Honestly, it reminds me of Sam

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and Dean from.
Superman, only they weren't

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actually making money off of
theirs.

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But like you know they had like
a million different like cop

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like.
They really did.

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Didn't like.
How did you get all this?

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We just glanced over the fraud
in that show.

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My God, it's OK.
That's so funny.

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We just loved them too much.
This is true.

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But yeah, Corey's trying to say
it's not really medical fraud

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because he only made phone calls
pretending to be a doctor.

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To lenders, but not to patients,
I mean.

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There, that's that's just over.
That's the Gray area there.

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Yeah.
Well, he's worried that that

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nine year sentence is going to
balloon up to like 50 because

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they're still, they're still
working on it.

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They they've only put him in
jail for the first crime, not

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for the second one.
And he has been ordered to pay

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restitution to those
millionaires who gave him money.

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So, so far that's 3.5 million.
But I don't think this is done.

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It might continue on, but that's
all I got for you today.

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Look, someone like him.
He has the skills to be an

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actual like CIA, FBI, whatever,
Black Ops type of person.

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Frank, whatever his name is.
Who from?

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Catch me if you can.
Eventually, the feds offered him

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a job.
Yeah, see?

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Like like.
They they can use his skills.

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He has the skills.
Obviously.

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He has to stay off the grid for
at least a year.

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I listen, people.
Take He just needs some

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training.
When people pick a place to

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like, run away to, you got to
choose a spot that doesn't like

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America.
Y'all like.

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And listen, I know it seems like
everybody hates us, but we got

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lots of deals with lots of
people.

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You got to find a country that
hates America and will

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definitely not work with you
when it's time for extradition.

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So it's not Canada and it's not
Mexico because both of them have

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a lot.
We have a lot of money deals

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with the north and the South of
America.

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So you better go further South
or something.

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I don't know.
Find you a private island and

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just fall off the grid entirely.
There you go.

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There you go.
Well, Yep.

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So, like everybody else, I hate
the dentist.

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Is you true?
Yeah, yeah, the dentist.

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I don't like people with my
mouth.

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I don't like people looking at
my teeth and not like I have bad

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teeth.
It's just like, I don't, I don't

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know why you look at my mouth.
It's just weird because people,

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mine just aren't that great.
I mean, I'm not saying mine are

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perfect, but I go to the
dentist.

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Every Was it six months?
So you know, I take care of my

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teeth anyway.
I don't.

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I just brush.
It well, a man in Texas was

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very, very, very upset with his
dentist office and it resulted

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in two people, two dentists,
being shot and killed.

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What?
Yeah.

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So this happened on the 16th,
and I guess this, this man, I

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don't have his name.
Huh.

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It's weird.
We know.

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No, it's just he's he was 40
years old.

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OK, He goes in, I'm guessing he
goes in, he's going in for like

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a a routine checkup or something
like that.

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And he got very upset with just
the clinic.

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Wow.
There's his name.

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Steven Alexander Smith.
Did he say why he was upset?

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It does not say like it does
because my mouth always comes

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out hurt whenever I go to the
dentist.

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No, and it's.
Weird because I've been looking

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at all these different articles.
I'm not sure, but it doesn't say

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why he got like upset, but he
was mad at I guess at the end of

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his appointment and.
It's probably over something.

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This is assurance probably you
need to take her or something

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shit like that.
But he, he started a

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confrontation with somebody at
the at the lobby I guess, and he

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goes out to his car or his
truck, my bad.

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He lets you his pickup truck and
he grabs his handgun and he's

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like, I'm so mad, I'm just going
to go up there and shoot up this

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whole dentistry, so.
He does this, he goes back

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inside, he shoots two other
dentists there and they die.

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And he, he flees the area.
Of course, he goes home.

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And you know, cops go to this
house, of course, because

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there's not a record of the fact
that he was just in the building

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30 seconds ago.
Right.

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So apparently he's he's at his
house with his parents and so

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his parents walk out and he
walks out and he is been charged

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with capital murder and
aggravated assault with a deadly

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weapon and he's on.
He's in custody.

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For a while.
And he's on a bond with

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$3,000,000, so yeah, he
deserves.

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Yeah, I'm like it.
Doesn't say what the hell.

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I mean, listen, I don't like the
dentist either, but.

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Like, that's what I'm saying.
Like, I don't like the dentist,

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but I don't think I'd be mad
enough, even, like, even if they

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fucked up my teeth a little bit.
Like look, I got a I got a

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cavity filled.
The last time I was at the

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dentist, right, And they were
drilling and drilling, I was

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like, are you guys, are you
doing what you're supposed?

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00:12:55,460 --> 00:12:58,060
To like are you?
Sure, you're on the right tooth.

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Like, I was so nervous.
I was like, oh, my fucking like,

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00:13:05,180 --> 00:13:07,780
don't drill into my cheek
because I can't feel shit in my

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00:13:07,780 --> 00:13:09,820
mouth right now.
So if you're drilling into my

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face, I can't tell.
That's how nervous I got.

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It was like take a chunk of
cheek for the lulls.

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Yes, for the lulls of it, yes.
God, poor dentist's office.

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They're just doing their job to
torture everyone.

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It's for your own betterment,
really.

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I do need to get like, I need to
get teeth insurance, which is

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really annoying.
That's not included in regular

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insurance, but.
Yeah.

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No dental and vision.
So yeah, also not included.

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00:13:46,610 --> 00:13:49,930
No.
Yeah, I pay uh this one company

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00:13:50,290 --> 00:13:53,970
like 99 bucks for like 4 years
worth of appointments.

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00:13:54,810 --> 00:13:57,170
For classes, yeah.
I'm not saying I'm on air

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00:13:57,170 --> 00:14:00,010
'cause, you know, we don't do
free sponsorship here, but if.

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00:14:00,010 --> 00:14:01,730
You wanna know?
I can let you know later.

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Like, I'm good.
My, my job actually gives me the

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the vision in the nanto, which
is so nice.

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Awesome.
Yeah,

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00:14:24,290 --> 00:14:31,970
well, in 2008, an article ran in
LA Weekly from Christine Pelsack

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that said the Grim Sleeper
returns he's murdering Angelenos

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00:14:35,490 --> 00:14:39,170
as cops hunt his DNA.
By the time this article ran,

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there were already 10 victims
and the police were rushing to

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find and identify a man who
started killing in 1984 and had

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00:14:47,750 --> 00:14:55,070
just stopped for 16 years.
Today, you're probably going to

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00:14:55,070 --> 00:14:58,110
notice some similarities to the
victimology from Anthony Sowell,

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00:14:58,270 --> 00:15:00,830
which is a theme that's been
coming up more and more often.

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00:15:00,830 --> 00:15:04,870
As I look through some of the
requests from fans, this was

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00:15:04,870 --> 00:15:07,550
another one of the people that
was requested by our listeners.

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00:15:08,950 --> 00:15:12,430
If you have not guessed it yet,
I'm discussing Lonnie Franklin

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00:15:12,430 --> 00:15:15,390
Junior today, also known as The
Grim Sleeper.

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00:15:15,830 --> 00:15:19,550
And truly, the only source that
I could have for this podcast

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00:15:19,550 --> 00:15:23,750
this week is Christine Pelsek.
She wrote the article that named

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00:15:23,750 --> 00:15:25,470
him.
Like myself, she's been

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00:15:25,470 --> 00:15:27,870
fascinated by Serial Killer
since she was a child.

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00:15:28,150 --> 00:15:30,510
And most importantly, she
covered this story from the

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00:15:30,550 --> 00:15:33,550
early 2000s into its conclusion
into 2020.

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00:15:34,310 --> 00:15:40,070
So her book, which is called
Scroll Me Down, I believe it's

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00:15:40,070 --> 00:15:46,180
called Whoa, Whoa, Whoa, The
Lost Women of South Central.

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00:15:48,220 --> 00:15:50,500
It's called The Grim Sleeper,
The Lost Women of South Central

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00:15:51,020 --> 00:15:52,820
by Christine Pelsack.
It's a great book.

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00:15:53,060 --> 00:15:55,700
It goes a lot into the history
of the people, which is what I'm

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00:15:55,700 --> 00:15:57,260
going to focus on a lot today as
well.

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00:15:58,340 --> 00:16:02,460
There are a lot of articles.
One of the things that I've

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00:16:02,460 --> 00:16:08,060
always tried to do with this
podcast is highlight the people

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00:16:08,100 --> 00:16:10,840
who were killed and the effects
of those crimes.

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00:16:10,840 --> 00:16:13,720
And so that's what Christine
did, and I really like that, and

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00:16:13,720 --> 00:16:15,800
that's why she is my main source
for today.

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00:16:17,160 --> 00:16:19,520
Also, before we start, I do want
to let everybody know.

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00:16:19,520 --> 00:16:23,200
All of Lonnie Franklin Junior's
victims, except for one, are

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00:16:23,200 --> 00:16:25,600
black women.
The other is a black man, a

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00:16:25,640 --> 00:16:29,320
demographic of people in the US
historically ignored and harmed

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00:16:29,640 --> 00:16:32,160
by both those outside and within
our community.

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00:16:33,040 --> 00:16:35,560
It's hard to discuss this
without discussing it from a

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00:16:35,560 --> 00:16:41,080
lens of being a black person, so
you're going to probably hear

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00:16:41,080 --> 00:16:45,480
that from us today, but we'll
start where we always do.

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00:16:46,440 --> 00:16:49,360
Lonnie Franklin Junior was born
in Los Angeles, August 30th,

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00:16:49,360 --> 00:16:53,960
1952 to Ruby and Lonnie Senior.
Shortly before Lonnie Junior was

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00:16:53,960 --> 00:16:56,920
born, his parents were in a car
accident and Ruby was thrown

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00:16:56,920 --> 00:16:59,120
from the car and had to have
major surgery.

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00:16:59,440 --> 00:17:02,240
She survived and gave birth to
Lonnie and then his sister

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00:17:02,240 --> 00:17:06,180
Patricia, who was born in 1957.
Lonnie also has an older

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00:17:06,180 --> 00:17:08,740
brother, Otis, from a previous
relationship.

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00:17:09,020 --> 00:17:12,900
When Ruby was a hairdresser in
Texas, he didn't really get to

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00:17:12,900 --> 00:17:16,020
know his older brother.
Otis stayed in Texas for most of

266
00:17:16,020 --> 00:17:17,940
the time and only visited the
family in LA.

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00:17:21,819 --> 00:17:25,099
This is peculiar because Lonnie
was born with the symptoms of

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00:17:25,099 --> 00:17:29,380
head trauma that we have seen
from other serial killers from a

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00:17:29,380 --> 00:17:31,380
very young age.
He was always sick.

270
00:17:31,380 --> 00:17:34,540
He had migraines that left him
blinded and vomiting.

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00:17:34,960 --> 00:17:37,720
These headaches existed all
throughout his childhood and

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00:17:37,720 --> 00:17:43,320
didn't stop until the 90s.
That said, I'm sure you weren't

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00:17:43,320 --> 00:17:45,640
surprised when I tell you that
he did absolutely horribly in

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00:17:45,640 --> 00:17:47,960
school.
He was always sick, could never

275
00:17:47,960 --> 00:17:50,760
pay attention in class.
His mother did his best to help

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00:17:50,760 --> 00:17:53,520
him, but he was almost
functionally illiterate, to the

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00:17:53,520 --> 00:17:56,240
point where Ruby got him a
professional tutor at 10 years

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00:17:56,240 --> 00:17:58,400
old just to try and help him
learn the basics.

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00:17:58,400 --> 00:18:03,160
It didn't really help.
He entered high school doing

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00:18:03,160 --> 00:18:05,160
just as poorly as he'd done in
elementary.

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00:18:05,560 --> 00:18:08,600
He was only really happy when he
transferred to to Dominguez High

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00:18:08,600 --> 00:18:11,600
School in Compton, and he was
allowed to enroll in a work

283
00:18:11,600 --> 00:18:13,800
study program, which when he
could make a little money

284
00:18:13,800 --> 00:18:17,920
working in the afternoons, what
he did in work study was auto

285
00:18:17,920 --> 00:18:20,920
shop repair.
And that was the thing that

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00:18:20,920 --> 00:18:23,400
really connected for him.
He couldn't really read, but he

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00:18:23,400 --> 00:18:26,120
was really good at fixing a car,
and his knowledge of cars was

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00:18:26,120 --> 00:18:28,560
actually how he made friends and
how he even met girls.

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00:18:29,120 --> 00:18:32,920
He learned to drive at 7 years
old from his dad, and by 14 his

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00:18:32,920 --> 00:18:35,080
dad had given him a car.
And you're giving me that look,

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00:18:35,080 --> 00:18:40,560
Brian, But apparently he just
took two understanding cars from

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00:18:40,560 --> 00:18:44,920
a very young age.
Look, I don't know if I told you

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00:18:44,920 --> 00:18:47,440
the story.
Like I when I first got into a,

294
00:18:48,600 --> 00:18:50,280
back when I was like, I don't
know, five years old or

295
00:18:50,280 --> 00:18:54,480
something, I took my parents
car.

296
00:18:55,870 --> 00:19:00,270
Like they left me in the car for
like a minute and I just.

297
00:19:00,390 --> 00:19:02,870
I just knew.
I knew how to shift the gears.

298
00:19:03,070 --> 00:19:06,030
I knew how to get in.
I drove the car like a couple of

299
00:19:06,030 --> 00:19:10,270
feet before they ran and caught
me and stopped the story.

300
00:19:10,310 --> 00:19:13,230
This is great, OK?
So you were in the same position

301
00:19:13,270 --> 00:19:17,030
as Lonnie, he at 7 years old.
He knew how to move the pedals

302
00:19:17,030 --> 00:19:20,510
and now he probably couldn't
see, so that was dangerous.

303
00:19:20,750 --> 00:19:24,870
But by 14, his dad had was
letting him like, use the car

304
00:19:25,530 --> 00:19:26,890
and drive it around the
neighborhood.

305
00:19:27,290 --> 00:19:30,370
And listen, I don't know if you
remember high school Brian, but

306
00:19:30,370 --> 00:19:34,490
having a car means you are that
bitch.

307
00:19:34,810 --> 00:19:39,450
You are the king if you have a
car in high school.

308
00:19:39,450 --> 00:19:43,770
Oh my God, you're.
And he had one in freshman year

309
00:19:44,090 --> 00:19:45,570
come.
On Oh yeah, Lucky.

310
00:19:46,210 --> 00:19:49,770
I think I got my first car when
I was like 1617, so.

311
00:19:49,930 --> 00:19:54,130
So he learned how to use not
just the fact that he had a car

312
00:19:54,130 --> 00:19:55,890
but other skills too, to get
people to like him.

313
00:19:56,170 --> 00:19:57,490
He knew how to make the girls
laugh.

314
00:19:57,770 --> 00:20:00,290
He had his heart set and a girl
named Kate from elementary

315
00:20:00,290 --> 00:20:02,170
school.
The two had met when they were

316
00:20:02,210 --> 00:20:05,890
eight years old and got together
in 8th grade, lost their

317
00:20:05,890 --> 00:20:08,730
virginity together and stayed
together for a year, which is

318
00:20:08,730 --> 00:20:10,330
pretty good for a young
relationship.

319
00:20:11,690 --> 00:20:13,010
In 9th grade though, they broke
up.

320
00:20:13,010 --> 00:20:15,570
He dated A fellow 9th grader
named Shannon until she moved at

321
00:20:15,570 --> 00:20:19,930
the end of the year, and Lonnie
then took the time to spread the

322
00:20:19,930 --> 00:20:22,100
rumor.
That the reason why Shannon had

323
00:20:22,100 --> 00:20:25,420
to move was that he got her
pregnant and that's why her

324
00:20:25,420 --> 00:20:30,980
parents left town.
It was all nice until you said

325
00:20:30,980 --> 00:20:32,740
that guy.
Yeah, he's with the next three

326
00:20:32,740 --> 00:20:35,300
years of his life.
Having fun, fixing cars, flirt

327
00:20:35,300 --> 00:20:38,260
my girls, dating a couple of
them, having a great time.

328
00:20:38,260 --> 00:20:40,620
Being a young guy.
From the outside, it seemed like

329
00:20:40,620 --> 00:20:43,180
he was a good kid.
And that all kind of stopped in

330
00:20:43,180 --> 00:20:45,930
1969.
He got arrested twice for Grand

331
00:20:45,930 --> 00:20:49,010
Theft Auto and then once in 1970
for burglary.

332
00:20:49,250 --> 00:20:53,450
He got expelled from Dominguez
two weeks before graduation for

333
00:20:53,450 --> 00:20:55,490
fighting and actually didn't
finish school.

334
00:20:55,810 --> 00:20:58,450
He worked at a grocery store
packing things in boxes for a

335
00:20:58,450 --> 00:21:01,730
couple months, and his dad was
like, hey you, you should do

336
00:21:01,730 --> 00:21:04,370
something, maybe join the
military.

337
00:21:06,530 --> 00:21:10,090
So in July 26th, 1971, he joined
the US Army and he went to basic

338
00:21:10,090 --> 00:21:14,850
training at Fort Ford in
Monterey Bay, California.

339
00:21:15,490 --> 00:21:18,970
His first appointment was
January 1972 at the 71st Air

340
00:21:18,970 --> 00:21:23,090
Defense Artillery at the Kelly
Barracks in Stuttgart, Germany.

341
00:21:25,930 --> 00:21:30,530
Like many young soldiers who we
have learned about over the last

342
00:21:30,530 --> 00:21:34,810
year and change, what what do
the young soldiers like to do?

343
00:21:34,810 --> 00:21:40,970
Brian I.
Don't know fresh, remember.

344
00:21:42,340 --> 00:21:43,260
What do you like to do,
Brittany?

345
00:21:43,700 --> 00:21:45,860
I like to be prostitutes while
they're in other countries.

346
00:21:45,860 --> 00:21:49,260
Oh.
God and.

347
00:21:49,500 --> 00:21:53,140
All of them.
It's in the past.

348
00:21:53,180 --> 00:21:55,940
It was real prolific.
I wouldn't say modern day.

349
00:21:55,940 --> 00:21:59,940
That's the thing to do now.
People got tender and grinder

350
00:21:59,940 --> 00:22:02,660
and can just meet people and
have a good time for free.

351
00:22:03,060 --> 00:22:07,500
But in old days, people would,
you know, get that night off,

352
00:22:08,260 --> 00:22:13,090
head out to the city, pick up,
you know, listen, it was easier

353
00:22:13,090 --> 00:22:19,330
to pick up a hottie for like
$100 than to talk to somebody.

354
00:22:19,330 --> 00:22:24,370
And it might not work.
Yeah, okay okay.

355
00:22:25,170 --> 00:22:29,090
But regardless, Lonnie got into
prostitution.

356
00:22:29,090 --> 00:22:32,050
He did indeed pick up an STD
like some of our other friends

357
00:22:32,050 --> 00:22:39,640
in the past and the military is
also where things escalated in

358
00:22:39,640 --> 00:22:44,520
regards to diversity.
That escalated happened on April

359
00:22:44,520 --> 00:22:49,640
17th, 1974.
It was 12:30 AM when he and two

360
00:22:49,640 --> 00:22:54,080
other soldiers attacked a 17
year old girl known only in

361
00:22:54,080 --> 00:22:58,040
court records as Ingrid W Ingrid
had just left her boyfriend's

362
00:22:58,040 --> 00:23:00,920
house and was waiting to catch a
train at the Zuffin Hossen train

363
00:23:00,920 --> 00:23:03,400
station at the city to the city
of Asburg.

364
00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:07,320
When they first approached
Ingrid, she wasn't really

365
00:23:07,320 --> 00:23:09,600
scared.
She was like, oh, they need

366
00:23:09,600 --> 00:23:11,760
directions.
So she gave them directions.

367
00:23:12,080 --> 00:23:14,120
But she said one man grabbed her
by the shoulders, dragged her

368
00:23:14,120 --> 00:23:17,120
into the back seat of the car.
That man put a butcher knife to

369
00:23:17,120 --> 00:23:19,080
her throat and told the girl
I'll kill you.

370
00:23:19,680 --> 00:23:25,440
The three soldiers drove her to
an empty field where two of them

371
00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:27,480
took turns raping her at
knifepoint.

372
00:23:27,760 --> 00:23:31,600
It took pictures of her as well.
This attack went on for hours

373
00:23:31,600 --> 00:23:35,100
until dawn.
In between the attacks, she

374
00:23:35,100 --> 00:23:41,100
tried to like, talk to the
driver and humanize herself, you

375
00:23:41,100 --> 00:23:45,740
know, get him to help stop it.
She did convince the guy to take

376
00:23:45,740 --> 00:23:48,540
her phone number, Like she
talked him into thinking like

377
00:23:48,540 --> 00:23:53,300
that she liked him and she gave
him the number and they did drop

378
00:23:53,300 --> 00:23:57,940
her off at home.
Anger went home, showered, fell

379
00:23:57,940 --> 00:24:00,700
asleep for most of the day and
they took a train to the police

380
00:24:00,700 --> 00:24:02,940
station and love Wicksburg to
report them.

381
00:24:03,410 --> 00:24:06,250
The police assumed that she was
a prostitute, but Ingrid

382
00:24:06,250 --> 00:24:08,210
demanded to have her report
taken.

383
00:24:08,530 --> 00:24:12,090
She went home, I'm sure further
traumatized by the police who

384
00:24:12,410 --> 00:24:15,170
didn't want to do their job.
But then the police got another

385
00:24:15,170 --> 00:24:19,930
report from an 18 year old girl
who reported that three African

386
00:24:19,930 --> 00:24:24,410
American men had attempted to
kidnap her an hour before

387
00:24:24,410 --> 00:24:26,190
Ingrid's attack.
Wow.

388
00:24:26,470 --> 00:24:28,870
Wow.
Other situation.

389
00:24:28,910 --> 00:24:31,190
The other girl had been grabbed
while she was buying cigarettes

390
00:24:31,190 --> 00:24:33,590
out of a machine because that's
how they used to sell them.

391
00:24:33,910 --> 00:24:37,830
But a local resident had
actually seen the attack, seen

392
00:24:37,830 --> 00:24:42,270
the grab, and that Lady started
screaming and when they realized

393
00:24:42,270 --> 00:24:44,470
that they had been seen, they
kind of shoved her out of the

394
00:24:44,470 --> 00:24:46,830
car.
It was a Fiat and drove off.

395
00:24:48,910 --> 00:24:53,310
So now they had the 18 year old
girl, the Witness and Ingrid.

396
00:24:53,470 --> 00:24:56,750
And so they actually called
Ingrid back and we're like, can

397
00:24:56,750 --> 00:24:59,190
you tell us about those three
guys again?

398
00:25:00,350 --> 00:25:03,150
Oh, now you want to hear?
OK, and so then the Germany gave

399
00:25:03,150 --> 00:25:07,270
the description to the US Army.
Crazy enough.

400
00:25:07,270 --> 00:25:13,070
The driver of the car calls
Ingrid, and so she, the police

401
00:25:13,110 --> 00:25:15,590
and Ingrid set up a staying
operation.

402
00:25:15,790 --> 00:25:18,030
She's like, I'll go on a date
with you.

403
00:25:18,070 --> 00:25:19,870
Meet me at the train station
where y'all were.

404
00:25:19,870 --> 00:25:21,150
Like where you saw me last
night.

405
00:25:22,310 --> 00:25:26,350
They had it set up so that once
Ingrid saw him and he got close

406
00:25:26,350 --> 00:25:29,390
enough to her, she would drop a
handkerchief on the ground and

407
00:25:29,390 --> 00:25:35,670
then the police would grab him.
The driver actually had a large

408
00:25:35,670 --> 00:25:40,310
knife hidden on him, and it
would seem that he had plans to

409
00:25:40,310 --> 00:25:43,350
continue what his friends had
started the night before.

410
00:25:44,630 --> 00:25:47,590
That driver was Lonnie Franklin
Junior.

411
00:25:49,090 --> 00:25:53,210
He was taken into custody on May
5th, 1974, charged with rape and

412
00:25:53,210 --> 00:25:56,530
kidnapping of Ingrid W and the
attempted kidnapping of the 18

413
00:25:56,530 --> 00:25:59,010
year old who escaped.
Franklin said he hadn't done

414
00:25:59,010 --> 00:26:02,210
anything to Ingrid and he blames
it on the other two guys.

415
00:26:02,370 --> 00:26:04,410
He said he'd just been driving
his friends around who were

416
00:26:04,410 --> 00:26:06,890
drunk, that they tried to pick
up a drunk girl on the street

417
00:26:06,890 --> 00:26:09,290
and help her out.
When she screamed, they let her

418
00:26:09,290 --> 00:26:12,650
go and then they said one hour
later Ingrid was hitchhiking and

419
00:26:12,650 --> 00:26:15,870
that they helped her out.
He said that Ingrid offered

420
00:26:15,870 --> 00:26:18,990
herself to them for the ride
home, but that he couldn't get

421
00:26:18,990 --> 00:26:22,270
an erection and instead the
other two guys had consensual

422
00:26:22,270 --> 00:26:24,910
sex with her.
The other two rapists told an

423
00:26:24,910 --> 00:26:27,750
entirely different story, which
did not help anyone with their

424
00:26:27,750 --> 00:26:30,550
credibility.
Of course, of course.

425
00:26:31,150 --> 00:26:34,870
The only truth of that thing
from Lonnie was that he did have

426
00:26:34,870 --> 00:26:36,750
trouble with his erection.
That's the only reason why he

427
00:26:36,750 --> 00:26:38,990
didn't rape her.
He couldn't do it.

428
00:26:41,170 --> 00:26:44,250
Franklin's mom flew to Germany
to be there for his trial, and

429
00:26:44,250 --> 00:26:46,090
they were that she was there for
three months.

430
00:26:46,810 --> 00:26:50,050
Lonnie was convicted.
So before actually say the

431
00:26:50,050 --> 00:26:53,930
conviction, there was a big
hubbub with Germany and the US

432
00:26:53,930 --> 00:26:58,210
Army over this because the army
has a tendency to go kind of

433
00:26:58,210 --> 00:27:03,530
lenient when stuff like this
happens abroad, You know,

434
00:27:03,530 --> 00:27:04,690
they're like, oh, we'll handle
this.

435
00:27:04,690 --> 00:27:07,530
We'll do it in house.
And Germany was like, Nah, we

436
00:27:07,530 --> 00:27:13,890
don't trust you to give these
three the right punishment and.

437
00:27:13,970 --> 00:27:18,010
So Germany actually said that
they were not going to release

438
00:27:18,010 --> 00:27:21,450
these three men back to the US
Army, and he was convicted on

439
00:27:21,450 --> 00:27:24,930
December 20th, 1974 and
sentenced to three years and

440
00:27:24,930 --> 00:27:28,610
four months in German prison.
His friends were given about 4

441
00:27:28,610 --> 00:27:32,170
1/2 years.
Unfortunately, he got released

442
00:27:32,170 --> 00:27:37,250
from prison early in 1975.
But before they actually sent

443
00:27:37,250 --> 00:27:39,530
him back to the US so that he
could go through trial in the

444
00:27:39,530 --> 00:27:43,650
US, they decided to do a mental
evaluation of him.

445
00:27:44,290 --> 00:27:46,850
He talked to them about his
headaches and sickness.

446
00:27:46,850 --> 00:27:50,090
He had a lot of anxiety and
depression, how he had gotten

447
00:27:50,130 --> 00:28:00,250
gonorrhea from a German
prostitute. the US therapist

448
00:28:00,250 --> 00:28:05,050
that he talked to on base in
Germany was just like He has no

449
00:28:05,050 --> 00:28:07,770
illness horrible enough to stop
him from attending his court

450
00:28:07,770 --> 00:28:09,850
martial in the States.
Send him home.

451
00:28:11,260 --> 00:28:18,100
So during the court martial he
fought hard as a hell to prove

452
00:28:18,380 --> 00:28:22,780
that he didn't rape anybody and
that that should matter to the

453
00:28:22,780 --> 00:28:26,940
court.
And he was successful in doing

454
00:28:26,940 --> 00:28:30,100
that because they gave him a
general discharge on May 5th,

455
00:28:30,100 --> 00:28:32,980
1976.
And the difference between a

456
00:28:33,220 --> 00:28:36,460
dishonorable discharge and a
general discharge is that if you

457
00:28:36,460 --> 00:28:39,640
are dishonorably discharged,
that only are you not allowed to

458
00:28:39,640 --> 00:28:43,000
be in the military ever again.
But you also lose all military

459
00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:45,520
benefits.
They will not help you Afterward

460
00:28:45,520 --> 00:28:48,480
get a job, you do not have their
health insurance.

461
00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:51,440
Afterward you get nothing.
You're done.

462
00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:53,000
So that's what he was fighting
for.

463
00:28:53,280 --> 00:28:58,800
He was fighting to keep the
benefits of being a having been

464
00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:01,400
in the military.
General Discharge just meant you

465
00:29:01,400 --> 00:29:03,440
are never allowed to be in the
military ever again.

466
00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:09,470
Don't talk to us so.
It's me.

467
00:29:09,550 --> 00:29:10,830
Got it.
Yeah, leave us alone.

468
00:29:10,830 --> 00:29:14,390
That's the long and short of it.
I'm sure there's actually some

469
00:29:14,390 --> 00:29:17,110
more nuance I don't understand
because I know nothing about the

470
00:29:17,110 --> 00:29:19,630
military, but that's what I
could at least glean from that.

471
00:29:20,070 --> 00:29:22,670
The other two culprits did
receive dishonorable discharges

472
00:29:22,670 --> 00:29:24,950
because they had actually
sexually assaulted the young

473
00:29:24,950 --> 00:29:28,350
woman.
After the court martial, Lonnie

474
00:29:28,350 --> 00:29:31,870
moved back home to LA and he met
his wife, Sylvia Lino, through

475
00:29:31,870 --> 00:29:34,830
his job at the LA Trade
Technical College in 1977.

476
00:29:35,230 --> 00:29:39,150
Sylvia was 21 and Lonnie was 25.
The relationship progressed

477
00:29:39,150 --> 00:29:41,550
rather quickly.
They got married in 1978.

478
00:29:41,550 --> 00:29:44,990
They had their first child,
Crystal, in December of 1978 and

479
00:29:44,990 --> 00:29:47,950
then son Christopher in August
of 1981.

480
00:29:48,830 --> 00:29:51,190
During this time period, Lonnie
had a lot of different jobs.

481
00:29:51,550 --> 00:29:54,230
He ran a gas station.
He was a security guard, a truck

482
00:29:54,230 --> 00:29:56,030
driver.
He even walked worked for the

483
00:29:56,030 --> 00:29:58,950
Office of Veteran Affairs as a
patient scheduler trying to help

484
00:29:59,030 --> 00:30:02,430
other people in the military.
He ended up working maintenance

485
00:30:02,430 --> 00:30:06,600
for a party company for a bit,
but the life of working odd jobs

486
00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:09,000
meant that there was never any
sability, and now he had a

487
00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:12,000
family to pay for and he needed
those benefits.

488
00:30:12,440 --> 00:30:15,440
So he decided that the most
logical and sensible choice was

489
00:30:15,440 --> 00:30:17,840
to join the LAPD.
But he didn't want to be a cop.

490
00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:21,600
He just wanted the benefits of
working for the cops.

491
00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:25,800
And so in 1981, he was hired as
a garage attendant in the

492
00:30:25,800 --> 00:30:29,040
Central Division office.
Within months, they gave him a

493
00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:32,280
raise to become a mechanical
helper and work on the police

494
00:30:32,280 --> 00:30:34,740
vehicles.
And it seemed like he was going

495
00:30:34,740 --> 00:30:37,860
to get the job that he had been
working towards in, like in high

496
00:30:37,860 --> 00:30:42,460
school.
But he quits in 1982 and he

497
00:30:42,460 --> 00:30:46,580
takes a job.
Yeah, it makes no sense until

498
00:30:46,580 --> 00:30:49,420
you realize that he was trying
to set up something, a con.

499
00:30:50,020 --> 00:30:55,420
So 1982, he quits the job for
the LAPD and takes a job with

500
00:30:55,420 --> 00:30:58,340
the LA Sanitation Department as
a garbage man.

501
00:30:58,500 --> 00:31:02,000
It did pay more and it offered a
lot of overtime.

502
00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:05,560
But the weird thing is, is this
is also when he starts filing

503
00:31:06,040 --> 00:31:13,160
injury claims, A lot of them and
they all centered around his

504
00:31:13,160 --> 00:31:16,520
right arm and eventually he
would quit citing an issue with

505
00:31:16,520 --> 00:31:21,320
his rotator cuff.
And ultimately by the 90s he had

506
00:31:21,320 --> 00:31:25,360
filed so many reports that he
had created enough claims and

507
00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:27,920
and doctors reports and things
to say that he could get

508
00:31:27,920 --> 00:31:30,330
disability benefits.
Oh, wow.

509
00:31:30,930 --> 00:31:34,130
Yep.
So he laid the groundwork by

510
00:31:34,130 --> 00:31:37,010
constantly reporting whenever
anything happened.

511
00:31:38,490 --> 00:31:43,530
And after he got those
disability benefits that gave

512
00:31:43,530 --> 00:31:49,970
him a lot of time and the money
to get in trouble because Sylvia

513
00:31:49,970 --> 00:31:52,890
had enough money to to run the
household and take care of the

514
00:31:52,890 --> 00:31:57,810
kids.
He he made his money running an

515
00:31:57,810 --> 00:32:03,300
illegal car repair service and
then thus started the saga of

516
00:32:03,300 --> 00:32:08,580
Lonnie Franklin Junior cruising
for prostitutes almost every

517
00:32:08,580 --> 00:32:12,060
single night in South Central
LA.

518
00:32:13,500 --> 00:32:19,100
Like, I I don't have an issue
with people engaging with sex

519
00:32:19,100 --> 00:32:21,580
workers by any means.
I know lots of people who do

520
00:32:21,580 --> 00:32:23,940
that job, so I think it's
totally valid.

521
00:32:24,180 --> 00:32:27,020
But I think that there's
something weird when every

522
00:32:27,020 --> 00:32:29,650
single night that's what you're
doing.

523
00:32:29,890 --> 00:32:33,730
And when his wife was working,
he went out and did it, and when

524
00:32:33,730 --> 00:32:37,130
she wasn't working, he would lie
and tell her that he had

525
00:32:37,130 --> 00:32:39,610
somewhere else to go.
He was going to go visit his

526
00:32:39,610 --> 00:32:41,490
friends.
It was always him going out

527
00:32:41,490 --> 00:32:44,250
looking for prostitutes.
Every night.

528
00:32:44,250 --> 00:32:45,370
Yeah.
I think that that's weird.

529
00:32:45,370 --> 00:32:48,610
It's it's definitely a form of a
sex addiction, getting your

530
00:32:48,610 --> 00:32:52,170
serotonin through getting off.
Also, he had to have been

531
00:32:52,170 --> 00:32:55,330
spending an absolute
astronomical amount of money.

532
00:32:55,690 --> 00:33:00,320
Even with the cheapest of of
people who are struggling on the

533
00:33:00,320 --> 00:33:05,120
street, you're that's still a
couple $100 a week Sir.

534
00:33:07,480 --> 00:33:11,000
And I I mean he was also giving
people drugs in exchange for

535
00:33:11,000 --> 00:33:13,520
favors so that's still money he
had to pay.

536
00:33:13,520 --> 00:33:17,880
I mean like I wonder how much
his wife didn't realize she was

537
00:33:17,880 --> 00:33:20,760
supplementing a very serious
habit.

538
00:33:21,200 --> 00:33:23,680
It's not her fault.
But I I would be so offended

539
00:33:24,620 --> 00:33:27,100
decades later to find out that
all the money that I gave you to

540
00:33:27,100 --> 00:33:31,540
help you with your business, you
were spending on harming women

541
00:33:31,540 --> 00:33:33,060
on the street.
Cuz boy.

542
00:33:33,100 --> 00:33:35,900
Coincidentally, around the same
time that those disability

543
00:33:35,900 --> 00:33:43,260
claims the first murder
happened, 1985, Deborah Ronette

544
00:33:43,260 --> 00:33:46,820
Jackson was 29 years old.
She was a really happy lady and

545
00:33:46,820 --> 00:33:48,940
she was super like, bright and
bubbly.

546
00:33:48,940 --> 00:33:50,500
She did have a bit of a run in
with drugs.

547
00:33:50,780 --> 00:33:53,340
She had gone to rehab in South
Central and was trying to

548
00:33:53,340 --> 00:33:56,470
rebuild her life.
She got into the party scene

549
00:33:56,470 --> 00:33:59,470
when she was younger, and like
so many others, she came out of

550
00:33:59,470 --> 00:34:02,390
that with a drug dependency that
had taken her children from her

551
00:34:02,390 --> 00:34:04,030
and left her with virtually
nothing.

552
00:34:04,550 --> 00:34:07,550
After rehab, she got a job as a
cocktail waitress and was making

553
00:34:07,550 --> 00:34:10,030
decent money.
Unfortunately, Deborah's

554
00:34:10,030 --> 00:34:13,070
roommate, Beatrice Mason, was
missing a paycheck and she was

555
00:34:13,070 --> 00:34:15,230
certain that Deborah had stolen
it to buy coke.

556
00:34:15,949 --> 00:34:19,489
The two fought the entire
weekend of August 2nd to the 4th

557
00:34:19,489 --> 00:34:23,370
in 1985 over the missing money.
And when there was no solution,

558
00:34:23,570 --> 00:34:26,570
Beatrice just told Deborah she
had to leave.

559
00:34:27,290 --> 00:34:29,730
But they were friends, so she
dropped her off at another

560
00:34:29,730 --> 00:34:34,250
person's house on August 5th.
That was Monday morning.

561
00:34:34,969 --> 00:34:37,770
As the day progressed, Beatrice
still was mad.

562
00:34:38,050 --> 00:34:40,610
She stayed mad.
And instead of picking up

563
00:34:40,610 --> 00:34:44,010
Deborah from the friend's house
that night, when Deborah called

564
00:34:44,010 --> 00:34:48,010
her at around 7:00 PM, Beatrice
was just like, let's just

565
00:34:48,010 --> 00:34:50,489
separate.
We can't live together.

566
00:34:51,130 --> 00:34:52,409
She's like, I'll bring your
stuff.

567
00:34:52,690 --> 00:34:54,570
I'll, she's like, I'll bag up
all your stuff.

568
00:34:54,610 --> 00:34:59,690
I'll leave it with the neighbor.
The first person to notice that

569
00:34:59,690 --> 00:35:02,370
Deborah was missing was her
daughter Anyada.

570
00:35:02,810 --> 00:35:07,410
And that was because after
Deborah went to rehab, she

571
00:35:07,410 --> 00:35:10,370
called her children every single
day.

572
00:35:11,900 --> 00:35:17,620
By Friday, August 9th, 1985, the
kids were in a real, like, upset

573
00:35:17,980 --> 00:35:21,340
the children's foster mother.
The thing was, the foster mom

574
00:35:21,340 --> 00:35:22,940
was totally OK with Deborah
visiting.

575
00:35:22,940 --> 00:35:26,460
It was actually a very, like,
positive situation.

576
00:35:26,700 --> 00:35:29,020
They were aware that Deborah was
trying to get her life on track,

577
00:35:29,020 --> 00:35:31,860
but there was a lot of stuff she
had to do to fulfill those

578
00:35:31,860 --> 00:35:33,940
requirements and get the kids
back full time.

579
00:35:34,340 --> 00:35:36,820
But she did get to visit them at
the foster mom's house.

580
00:35:36,820 --> 00:35:39,020
But by the 9th, though, Foster
mom was worried.

581
00:35:39,780 --> 00:35:41,540
Beatrice hadn't heard anything
either.

582
00:35:41,540 --> 00:35:46,380
Everything just seemed off.
Deborah's body was found on

583
00:35:46,380 --> 00:35:50,140
August 10th, lying against a
Redwood fence, poorly hidden

584
00:35:50,420 --> 00:35:52,740
beneath an old carpet at Martin
Luther King Blvd.

585
00:35:52,740 --> 00:35:54,700
And San Pedro St. in South
Central.

586
00:35:55,060 --> 00:35:58,060
She was still wearing a purple
sweater and blue jeans, but the

587
00:35:58,060 --> 00:36:02,340
shirt had been pulled up over
her breasts and her pants were,

588
00:36:02,340 --> 00:36:05,460
like, poorly put on.
She didn't have any underwear on

589
00:36:05,460 --> 00:36:09,180
at all, which we'll find out was
part of her killer signature.

590
00:36:10,270 --> 00:36:14,390
However, she was covered in
magnets, maggots signifying to

591
00:36:14,390 --> 00:36:17,950
the police that she had been
there for a couple days at

592
00:36:17,950 --> 00:36:19,550
least.
Right.

593
00:36:19,790 --> 00:36:22,190
Yeah.
Now, unfortunately for Deborah,

594
00:36:22,190 --> 00:36:26,710
there was another killer in LA
in 1985, and he wasn't targeting

595
00:36:26,710 --> 00:36:28,710
poor women.
He was targeting the middle and

596
00:36:28,710 --> 00:36:32,350
upper class, had already killed
12 people, raped 15 women and

597
00:36:32,350 --> 00:36:35,230
children and they were calling
him the Night Stalker.

598
00:36:36,550 --> 00:36:39,520
Why?
This is like the last story,

599
00:36:39,640 --> 00:36:41,600
like two people attacking at the
same time.

600
00:36:42,760 --> 00:36:46,680
There's like 4 serial killers in
South Central over the course of

601
00:36:46,680 --> 00:36:48,920
the time where Lonnie Franklin
Jr. is active.

602
00:36:49,200 --> 00:36:52,200
It is wild.
Like here's the thing,

603
00:36:52,200 --> 00:36:56,120
California has the most serial
killers by number and they have

604
00:36:56,120 --> 00:37:00,480
a huge population.
But America's had about 3600

605
00:37:01,000 --> 00:37:04,360
serial killers total in our
entire history. 1600 of them

606
00:37:04,360 --> 00:37:10,820
have come from California.
Wow, the Seventies 80s and 90s

607
00:37:11,740 --> 00:37:15,140
were insane.
Wow, I know, I know.

608
00:37:15,140 --> 00:37:16,340
The 70s.
Were badly damned.

609
00:37:16,340 --> 00:37:21,620
He did not stop.
But yes, so unfortunately for

610
00:37:21,620 --> 00:37:24,620
Deborah, the low income former
drug addict from South South

611
00:37:24,620 --> 00:37:28,260
Central was lost in the flurry
of news reports showing the

612
00:37:28,260 --> 00:37:30,980
composite sketch and
psychological profile of the

613
00:37:30,980 --> 00:37:34,070
Night Stalker.
I imagine Deborah's children fed

614
00:37:34,070 --> 00:37:36,470
a lot, like a lot of families
who lost loved ones around the

615
00:37:36,470 --> 00:37:38,830
same time that Gabby Petito
disappeared last year.

616
00:37:39,470 --> 00:37:41,070
Don't the people we love matter
too?

617
00:37:41,870 --> 00:37:44,710
It's kind of sad to realize that
absolutely nothing has changed.

618
00:37:46,710 --> 00:37:50,830
The LAP 77th Division, which is
the area that covers this area

619
00:37:50,830 --> 00:37:53,390
of South Central, was
understaffed, overworked, and

620
00:37:53,390 --> 00:37:57,270
they averaged about 130 murders
a year for a staff of only 8

621
00:37:57,550 --> 00:38:01,150
homicide detectives.
Dyer was the 58th unidentified

622
00:38:01,150 --> 00:38:04,870
woman to be found in 1985.
She'd been shot three times in

623
00:38:04,870 --> 00:38:07,230
the chest with a 25 caliber
pistol.

624
00:38:07,990 --> 00:38:10,750
They found alcohol and traces of
cocaine in her system.

625
00:38:11,110 --> 00:38:13,150
Because of the decomp, they
couldn't tell if she had been

626
00:38:13,150 --> 00:38:19,670
sexually assaulted.
But spoilers.

627
00:38:20,670 --> 00:38:22,990
He sexually assaulted all of his
victims.

628
00:38:25,630 --> 00:38:28,190
They learned from friends and
fellow employees that Deborah

629
00:38:28,190 --> 00:38:30,790
have found an apartment and she
had actually scheduled to go

630
00:38:30,790 --> 00:38:34,030
visit it.
The last time she was seen alive

631
00:38:34,030 --> 00:38:37,670
was at work on August 7th when
she picked up her paycheck.

632
00:38:37,950 --> 00:38:41,310
So the assumption there is that
somewhere between August 7th and

633
00:38:41,310 --> 00:38:45,390
9th was when she was killed.
That paycheck was not found on

634
00:38:45,390 --> 00:38:46,550
her.
She may have actually put down

635
00:38:46,550 --> 00:38:48,870
the down payment on that new
place, we're not sure.

636
00:38:50,330 --> 00:38:52,850
Unfortunately for Beatrice, the
police fixated on the fight the

637
00:38:52,850 --> 00:38:55,210
two of them had and her before
disappearance.

638
00:38:55,450 --> 00:38:58,570
They looked at her as a suspect.
At first, Beatrice failed the

639
00:38:58,570 --> 00:39:01,690
polygraph because she was so
angry with the police and.

640
00:39:02,370 --> 00:39:04,130
Like, why?
How, Jerry, you blame me?

641
00:39:04,130 --> 00:39:05,530
Like, really?
I mean, we had a fight.

642
00:39:05,530 --> 00:39:07,170
There's not enough to kill her
over, right?

643
00:39:07,170 --> 00:39:08,850
I told her to leave.
I didn't say I was good.

644
00:39:09,010 --> 00:39:12,250
Shoot her in the chest.
Regardless, though, Beatrice

645
00:39:12,250 --> 00:39:18,870
provided her shoes and a DNA
sample and also her fingerprints

646
00:39:18,870 --> 00:39:20,990
to prove that she had no
connection.

647
00:39:23,550 --> 00:39:25,030
There wasn't much they had to go
on.

648
00:39:25,790 --> 00:39:29,710
The case went cold, her family
buried her and the most police

649
00:39:29,710 --> 00:39:33,830
could do was monitor crimes for
a 25 caliber pistol and hope it

650
00:39:33,830 --> 00:39:35,710
will lead to finding the killer.
That's.

651
00:39:36,230 --> 00:39:41,930
Just wait.
Now in the midst of all these

652
00:39:41,930 --> 00:39:44,810
murders, we also have another
serial killer that ultimately

653
00:39:44,810 --> 00:39:46,730
they called the South Side
Slayer.

654
00:39:47,050 --> 00:39:49,170
Now the South Side Slayer
stabbed and strangled his

655
00:39:49,170 --> 00:39:54,170
victims.
But that is not one person.

656
00:39:54,450 --> 00:39:59,130
Two separate people have been
arrested for those crimes, and

657
00:39:59,130 --> 00:40:02,330
there may have been other serial
killers who were working at the

658
00:40:02,330 --> 00:40:05,970
same time who they put under the
umbrella of the South Side

659
00:40:05,970 --> 00:40:09,890
Slayer.
Oh my God, this is terrible.

660
00:40:09,970 --> 00:40:13,400
Yeah.
Well, it's terrible for the

661
00:40:13,400 --> 00:40:19,200
families who are hoping to get
some kind of help when this.

662
00:40:19,200 --> 00:40:23,640
I mean, they think there were
like 6 serial killers working in

663
00:40:23,640 --> 00:40:29,800
LA at the same time, But
regardless, in the middle of

664
00:40:29,800 --> 00:40:32,760
them researching and trying to
find the South side player, they

665
00:40:32,760 --> 00:40:35,040
get a hit on a crime similar to
Deborah's.

666
00:40:35,320 --> 00:40:37,840
Her name was Henrietta, right?
People called her Cody.

667
00:40:38,370 --> 00:40:40,530
When the 34 year old went
missing, she had also been

668
00:40:40,530 --> 00:40:42,970
struggling with drugs.
Her stepfather had kicked her

669
00:40:42,970 --> 00:40:45,690
out the week prior, August 12th,
1986.

670
00:40:46,570 --> 00:40:51,730
She stayed with friends of her
sister or friends and her sister

671
00:40:51,730 --> 00:40:55,330
or a random motel.
Her younger sister would wait

672
00:40:55,410 --> 00:40:58,850
until their stepdad went to
sleep and then sneak her in at

673
00:40:58,850 --> 00:41:01,650
night and then sneak her out in
the morning.

674
00:41:03,010 --> 00:41:05,730
Henrietta had been a really
wonderful mom to five kids, and

675
00:41:05,730 --> 00:41:08,760
she was a hard worker.
Until there was a fire that took

676
00:41:08,760 --> 00:41:11,400
out her home and all of her
belongings in the early 80s.

677
00:41:11,800 --> 00:41:14,680
Depression hit her really hard
and she turned her drugs to

678
00:41:14,680 --> 00:41:17,600
cope.
The 80s, of course, were the era

679
00:41:17,600 --> 00:41:22,640
of crack cocaine in the black
community, and it very quickly

680
00:41:22,640 --> 00:41:33,320
robbed her of her entire life.
Stop it, Siri, no one told you.

681
00:41:34,040 --> 00:41:36,400
Soon as I saw the little box pop
up, I knew what it was doing.

682
00:41:37,190 --> 00:41:42,070
No Siri.
Her family didn't want to let

683
00:41:42,070 --> 00:41:45,310
her stay there because if you
have any experience with people

684
00:41:45,310 --> 00:41:47,950
who are in the midst of a direct
dependency, they steal.

685
00:41:48,430 --> 00:41:53,030
And like so many people who
watch someone fade with an

686
00:41:53,030 --> 00:41:56,910
addiction, it's very much
hopelessness as you watch the

687
00:41:56,910 --> 00:41:59,710
person you love become
impossible to reach.

688
00:42:01,790 --> 00:42:05,270
Henrietta's body was found just
before noon on August 12th of

689
00:42:05,270 --> 00:42:07,890
1986.
Her body was hidden under an old

690
00:42:07,890 --> 00:42:10,770
mattress and blanket on West
Vernon Ave. where a lot of

691
00:42:10,770 --> 00:42:13,490
homeless people stayed.
Just like Deborah, she'd been

692
00:42:13,490 --> 00:42:16,770
shot in the chest at close range
with a 25 caliber pistol.

693
00:42:17,090 --> 00:42:20,170
So close that there was gunshot
residue within the wounds.

694
00:42:21,290 --> 00:42:24,250
Just like Deborah, they found
cocaine in her system, but they

695
00:42:24,250 --> 00:42:26,530
also found morphine and codeine
as well.

696
00:42:27,370 --> 00:42:31,370
If people don't know, that's a
very typical drink that people

697
00:42:31,370 --> 00:42:34,290
make.
If you listen to rap music from

698
00:42:34,290 --> 00:42:37,280
the old days, they do call it
the lean.

699
00:42:37,440 --> 00:42:42,440
Lean syrup.
It's a mixture of codeine and

700
00:42:42,440 --> 00:42:46,520
morphine and a drink.
I do remember that song sipping

701
00:42:46,520 --> 00:42:47,360
that syrup.
Yep.

702
00:42:49,240 --> 00:42:50,480
As a child, I didn't know what
that meant.

703
00:42:52,920 --> 00:42:54,160
Love.
They're drinking Maple syrup.

704
00:42:54,320 --> 00:42:55,960
I was like, why are they
drinking the syrup?

705
00:42:56,000 --> 00:42:59,080
I don't understand.
Those Maple syrup.

706
00:42:59,920 --> 00:43:03,280
Unlike Deborah, though, it
appears if and Henrietta had an

707
00:43:03,280 --> 00:43:07,890
opportunity to fight back.
Her attacker beat the crap out

708
00:43:07,890 --> 00:43:09,570
of her.
There was blood all over her

709
00:43:09,570 --> 00:43:13,690
mouth, nose, cheeks.
There was even blood in her ear.

710
00:43:14,290 --> 00:43:17,330
Also, the killer had shoved a
part of a man's long sleeve

711
00:43:17,330 --> 00:43:20,890
shirt in her throat, like in her
mouth to try and gag her.

712
00:43:21,730 --> 00:43:25,450
Her white polo shirt was pulled
up above her chest, Her shorts

713
00:43:25,450 --> 00:43:28,170
were inject.
Her shoes, underwear and her

714
00:43:28,170 --> 00:43:33,030
identification were all gone.
At first, it didn't seem like a

715
00:43:33,030 --> 00:43:36,550
lot was going to happen.
But on August 29th, the Lapd's

716
00:43:36,550 --> 00:43:39,910
Scientific Investigation
Division connected the bullets

717
00:43:39,910 --> 00:43:43,110
from Henrietta's chest to the
same that killed Deborah.

718
00:43:43,910 --> 00:43:48,230
This wasn't a speculation
anymore, and as far as people

719
00:43:48,230 --> 00:43:51,550
don't know, the the way that
they connect bullets is that the

720
00:43:51,550 --> 00:43:55,990
barrel of every gun is
distinctive and different, and

721
00:43:55,990 --> 00:43:59,630
so as the bullet leaves its case
and comes.

722
00:44:00,060 --> 00:44:05,260
Out of the gun, there are
striations that like cuts that

723
00:44:05,260 --> 00:44:09,100
go into the bullet that are
unique to the barrel of the gun,

724
00:44:09,460 --> 00:44:12,980
and they compare the bullets
from each victim and if they

725
00:44:12,980 --> 00:44:16,820
have identical striations,
that's how they know that these

726
00:44:16,820 --> 00:44:18,900
bullets were all fired from the
same gun.

727
00:44:21,140 --> 00:44:24,180
This would be the only thing
that links these killings

728
00:44:24,180 --> 00:44:29,440
together.
For a moment, the police think

729
00:44:29,440 --> 00:44:31,800
they have The killer turns out
to be a bad lead from an

730
00:44:31,800 --> 00:44:34,360
informant.
The guy's name was Dennis

731
00:44:34,360 --> 00:44:38,920
Pinkney, and he was a bad guy.
He was overheard by the

732
00:44:38,920 --> 00:44:42,480
informant bragging about
shooting a woman who didn't give

733
00:44:42,480 --> 00:44:45,520
him a blowjob.
And then apparently he attacked

734
00:44:45,520 --> 00:44:47,200
her.
He shot her and shoved her

735
00:44:47,200 --> 00:44:50,080
panties in her mouth like he
said that in public.

736
00:44:51,240 --> 00:44:54,280
And so the informant was like,
that's your guy.

737
00:44:54,560 --> 00:44:57,400
I was at the hotel and I heard
him talking about it.

738
00:44:58,180 --> 00:45:00,460
So the LA County District
Attorney charges Pinckney with

739
00:45:00,460 --> 00:45:03,860
the murder of Henrietta, but
while he's in LA County Jail,

740
00:45:03,860 --> 00:45:08,420
another woman gets killed.
Pinckney was a scumbag who did

741
00:45:08,420 --> 00:45:11,340
kill a woman, but he wasn't the
one they were looking for.

742
00:45:11,340 --> 00:45:13,620
And now we have a third murder
to look into.

743
00:45:15,100 --> 00:45:20,820
This one was different though.
A 911 dispatch got a call about

744
00:45:20,820 --> 00:45:25,620
a man dropping a woman's body on
January 10th, 1987, just after

745
00:45:25,620 --> 00:45:31,140
midnight, the caller said.
It was on 1346 E 56th St. in an

746
00:45:31,140 --> 00:45:32,980
alley.
The guy was in a blue and white

747
00:45:32,980 --> 00:45:35,580
Dodge van.
He even had the license plate

748
00:45:35,580 --> 00:45:37,940
number.
The caller told them that the

749
00:45:37,940 --> 00:45:40,660
man had dropped a woman's body
out of his vehicle, throwing a

750
00:45:40,780 --> 00:45:45,180
gas tank on top of her, and when
911 asked who he was, the guy

751
00:45:45,180 --> 00:45:47,940
laughed and said I'm staying
anonymous, I know too many

752
00:45:47,940 --> 00:45:53,860
people and he hung up.
Yes, as you should.

753
00:45:55,440 --> 00:45:58,200
When the police arrive about 20
minutes later, they find Barbara

754
00:45:58,200 --> 00:46:01,680
Ware, half covered in black
plastic bags and cardboard

755
00:46:01,680 --> 00:46:04,160
boxes.
The gas tank was used to kind of

756
00:46:04,160 --> 00:46:06,040
weigh down all the crap covering
her.

757
00:46:06,280 --> 00:46:08,800
She's wearing Gray jeans and a
long sleeve white cardigan with

758
00:46:08,800 --> 00:46:13,360
a black halter top underneath,
just like Henrietta and Barbara.

759
00:46:13,640 --> 00:46:16,960
Blood on her face nose.
Her right eye was swollen shut.

760
00:46:17,240 --> 00:46:19,320
She still had hair curlers in
her hair.

761
00:46:20,320 --> 00:46:21,640
Well, he looks for Barbara's
identity.

762
00:46:21,640 --> 00:46:23,760
The police tried to track down
the van through the license

763
00:46:23,760 --> 00:46:25,950
plate number.
It belonged to a church, and it

764
00:46:25,950 --> 00:46:28,110
was used to pick up and take
home patrons.

765
00:46:28,470 --> 00:46:31,110
That night, the night that
Barbara was found, the church

766
00:46:31,110 --> 00:46:35,550
was actually having a lockin.
And so the driver was there with

767
00:46:35,550 --> 00:46:39,910
all the people in the church.
By the following morning.

768
00:46:39,910 --> 00:46:41,790
They knew her name, Barbara
Bethuneware.

769
00:46:42,030 --> 00:46:43,750
She had just turned 23 years
old.

770
00:46:44,670 --> 00:46:48,110
Barbara had a hard life.
Her mom died when she was 12.

771
00:46:48,350 --> 00:46:50,750
She'd never handled it well.
And when she and her brother

772
00:46:50,750 --> 00:46:52,870
moved in with their very strict
Catholic dad.

773
00:46:53,290 --> 00:46:56,730
Things didn't go well either.
Billy Senior tried to control

774
00:46:56,730 --> 00:46:58,610
Barbara.
She rebelled, got into fights,

775
00:46:58,610 --> 00:47:01,610
got expelled.
Honestly, she really needed

776
00:47:01,610 --> 00:47:04,290
therapy, but it was the 70s.
And who was doing that?

777
00:47:05,690 --> 00:47:08,210
Her dad was known to try and
beat her with a belt to subdue

778
00:47:08,210 --> 00:47:11,410
her, but that doesn't work.
They ended up sending her to her

779
00:47:11,410 --> 00:47:14,650
grandparents in Texas, but
that's where she got pregnant at

780
00:47:14,650 --> 00:47:17,210
16.
And then she decided she was

781
00:47:17,210 --> 00:47:20,530
moving back to LA.
In 1981, after her daughter was

782
00:47:20,530 --> 00:47:24,050
born, she started using.
Got arrested for theft and

783
00:47:24,050 --> 00:47:27,410
solicitation in 82 when she was
just 18 years old.

784
00:47:27,850 --> 00:47:33,610
By 1985, Barbara actually took a
handful of pills, turned on the

785
00:47:33,610 --> 00:47:37,850
gas stove in her house, and
ended up hospitalized in the

786
00:47:37,850 --> 00:47:41,890
hospital.
Barbara realized that if she

787
00:47:41,890 --> 00:47:44,650
didn't work harder on quitting
drugs, she was going to lose her

788
00:47:44,650 --> 00:47:46,450
daughter.
And so she actually really

789
00:47:46,450 --> 00:47:48,130
worked hard for the next six
months.

790
00:47:48,640 --> 00:47:50,960
But by 1986, she was using
again.

791
00:47:50,960 --> 00:47:57,000
And then in 1987, she was gone.
Barbara's stepfather, who might

792
00:47:57,000 --> 00:48:00,640
have not been the best parent,
but he absolutely cared about

793
00:48:00,640 --> 00:48:03,120
the fact that she was gone.
He took to the streets.

794
00:48:03,320 --> 00:48:09,040
He started talking to people,
drug dealers, drug doers, and

795
00:48:09,120 --> 00:48:11,680
talking to people and trying to
figure out like, was this a bad

796
00:48:11,680 --> 00:48:14,360
drug deal?
Does she owe somebody money like

797
00:48:14,360 --> 00:48:15,480
this?
Wouldn't be the first time that

798
00:48:15,480 --> 00:48:18,410
that happened.
He ended up paying off people to

799
00:48:18,410 --> 00:48:22,250
get people to talk to him, but
he did learn that Barbara wasn't

800
00:48:22,250 --> 00:48:25,250
clean, but she wasn't out of
control like she was before.

801
00:48:27,370 --> 00:48:32,450
On the day of Barbara's funeral,
the LAPD Science Investigation

802
00:48:32,450 --> 00:48:35,530
Division did determine that she
was shot with the same gun that

803
00:48:35,530 --> 00:48:39,480
killed Henrietta and Deborah.
Now I know before that I said

804
00:48:39,480 --> 00:48:42,400
that Dennis Pinckney could not
have killed Barbara because he

805
00:48:42,400 --> 00:48:45,880
was in prison, but that did not
stop the LAPD from trying to

806
00:48:45,880 --> 00:48:47,400
take him to court for Henrietta
Wright.

807
00:48:48,120 --> 00:48:49,600
Are you serious?
He absolutely did.

808
00:48:51,200 --> 00:48:56,000
They had that preliminary
hearing March 29th, 1987, and

809
00:48:56,000 --> 00:48:59,000
just after the preliminary
hearing, another body was found.

810
00:49:01,030 --> 00:49:02,950
So this was me too, right?
I did this one too.

811
00:49:02,950 --> 00:49:04,870
Right, right.
I'm sure Dennis is like

812
00:49:04,870 --> 00:49:08,350
wallowing out at this point.
On April 16th, 1987, two

813
00:49:08,350 --> 00:49:11,710
employees at the Chase
Appliances on Southwestern Ave.

814
00:49:11,710 --> 00:49:14,670
cut across the parking lot
behind their job and saw a white

815
00:49:14,670 --> 00:49:17,750
T-shirt watered up on the ground
about 15 feet from a dumpster.

816
00:49:17,910 --> 00:49:20,070
One of the men picked up the
shirt, he noticed it had blood

817
00:49:20,070 --> 00:49:23,350
on it, immediately dropped it,
and then kind of leaned the look

818
00:49:23,350 --> 00:49:25,590
in the dumpster and saw Bernita
sparks.

819
00:49:25,910 --> 00:49:28,190
She had been tossed head first
in the dumpster and her blue

820
00:49:28,190 --> 00:49:29,910
Levi's with a black button up
shirt.

821
00:49:30,370 --> 00:49:32,210
There was blood in her face,
nose and mouth.

822
00:49:32,610 --> 00:49:35,490
Her killer had very hastily
redressed her without her

823
00:49:35,490 --> 00:49:38,850
underwear, and of course there
was gunshot residue all over

824
00:49:38,850 --> 00:49:42,450
that shirt.
Bernita had last been seen at

825
00:49:42,450 --> 00:49:46,050
10:30 the night before.
She said goodnight to her mother

826
00:49:46,050 --> 00:49:49,650
and she told her she told her
mom, Eva and Aunt Eunice that

827
00:49:49,650 --> 00:49:51,010
she was going to the liquor
store.

828
00:49:51,930 --> 00:49:55,570
When Eunice woke up that morning
on the 16th, the door was still

829
00:49:55,570 --> 00:49:58,330
unlocked.
The family didn't know who would

830
00:49:58,330 --> 00:50:02,920
want to harm Bernita.
And she was murdered just days

831
00:50:03,200 --> 00:50:05,720
before she was set to start
working at the 92nd Street

832
00:50:05,720 --> 00:50:07,600
Elementary School as a lunch
monitor.

833
00:50:09,240 --> 00:50:12,000
She was 26, and she didn't
really match the other victims.

834
00:50:12,000 --> 00:50:15,840
In term of addiction, she might
have done a little bit here and

835
00:50:15,840 --> 00:50:19,240
there, but she wasn't an addict.
She had been arrested twice in

836
00:50:19,240 --> 00:50:23,440
1983, once for evidence
destruction and the other for

837
00:50:23,440 --> 00:50:25,080
possession of a controlled
substance.

838
00:50:27,710 --> 00:50:30,390
But that was just, you know,
having a little bit of drugs on.

839
00:50:30,390 --> 00:50:36,590
Yet the police actually went
door to door knocking to see if

840
00:50:36,590 --> 00:50:40,310
anyone had seen Marnita.
A woman named Rosa Harris, who

841
00:50:40,310 --> 00:50:43,310
lived in an apartment complex
that faced the alley where they

842
00:50:43,310 --> 00:50:47,950
found her, told the police that
she heard someone screaming in

843
00:50:47,950 --> 00:50:50,390
that morning.
And she said she saw a man with

844
00:50:50,390 --> 00:50:53,830
a Jerry curl, a yellow shirt and
light pants leaving the alley.

845
00:50:55,590 --> 00:50:57,510
The police were definitely sure
they were dealing with the same

846
00:50:57,510 --> 00:51:00,350
guy, but it was almost entirely
too much for them to handle

847
00:51:00,350 --> 00:51:04,430
because they were dealing with
the South Side Slayer and these

848
00:51:04,470 --> 00:51:10,510
these crimes are all coming in
at the same time and the state

849
00:51:10,550 --> 00:51:15,590
is threatening to, so this isn't
necessarily the right thing.

850
00:51:15,590 --> 00:51:19,030
But they have been given money
for a South Side Slayer task

851
00:51:19,030 --> 00:51:22,350
force and so some of that money
was being used.

852
00:51:22,920 --> 00:51:25,840
Around the rest of the precinct
because they were so underfunded

853
00:51:26,120 --> 00:51:28,440
and so they're worried that
they're going to lose that

854
00:51:28,440 --> 00:51:31,160
funding because they already
don't have enough funding.

855
00:51:32,040 --> 00:51:34,800
Right.
Well, yeah.

856
00:51:35,160 --> 00:51:37,720
Yeah, that's that's a shitty
area to be in.

857
00:51:37,800 --> 00:51:40,120
Right.
Yeah, yeah.

858
00:51:41,480 --> 00:51:46,800
Now, July 6th, 1987, the police
informant lets them know that

859
00:51:46,800 --> 00:51:52,570
she lied about Pinckney.
Again, he did absolutely shoot

860
00:51:52,570 --> 00:51:57,050
another person, but she actually
told the police that she thinks

861
00:51:57,050 --> 00:52:00,330
it was her boyfriend, Jimmy
Lewis who had killed Henrietta

862
00:52:00,650 --> 00:52:03,890
because and she said she lied
because Jimmy said he was going

863
00:52:03,890 --> 00:52:07,130
to kill her and her children, so
she just told them somebody

864
00:52:07,130 --> 00:52:11,210
else's name.
Now Lewis did on a 25, but it

865
00:52:11,210 --> 00:52:15,090
had been confiscated during a
previous arrest by the Highway

866
00:52:15,090 --> 00:52:17,710
Patrol.
So the LAPD requested that gun.

867
00:52:17,710 --> 00:52:21,430
They tested it on July 14th.
It didn't match, of course.

868
00:52:21,790 --> 00:52:24,950
July 13th, Ping Me's case
finally gets dismissed against

869
00:52:24,950 --> 00:52:26,790
him.
Now we're back to the drawing

870
00:52:26,790 --> 00:52:28,550
board.
We got no suspects and we got

871
00:52:28,550 --> 00:52:40,830
nothing until four months pass.
Mary Lowe is our next victim and

872
00:52:40,830 --> 00:52:43,750
she was 26 years old on October
29th, 1987.

873
00:52:44,380 --> 00:52:46,900
She had been easily using for
the last decade.

874
00:52:47,300 --> 00:52:49,740
She had a really strange,
tumultuous relationship with a

875
00:52:49,740 --> 00:52:52,700
man named Gino King.
For the majority of that time,

876
00:52:53,100 --> 00:52:55,460
the two were on again, off
again, with Mary kind of showing

877
00:52:55,460 --> 00:52:58,220
up every couple weeks, and she'd
stay with him for a few nights

878
00:52:58,220 --> 00:53:01,460
or weeks to be off again.
Gino believed that she was

879
00:53:01,460 --> 00:53:03,540
turning tricks, but he never
really questioned it.

880
00:53:04,140 --> 00:53:07,740
She did a stint in Civil Brand
Institute, a women's prison in

881
00:53:07,740 --> 00:53:10,330
LA.
And sometime between her time

882
00:53:10,330 --> 00:53:13,090
and Sybil in 1987, she got into
crack.

883
00:53:13,090 --> 00:53:17,570
And that was really the end of
this young woman who just wanted

884
00:53:17,570 --> 00:53:21,810
to have fun.
On October 29th, Gino and Mary

885
00:53:21,810 --> 00:53:26,090
had gotten into a fight, and so
she asked to go to her mom's

886
00:53:26,090 --> 00:53:28,210
house.
Gino took her to her mom's

887
00:53:28,210 --> 00:53:29,290
house.
Her name was Betty.

888
00:53:29,290 --> 00:53:31,650
And everyone there was like,
listen, you don't look good.

889
00:53:31,850 --> 00:53:34,730
You should stay off the streets.
Go stay at Gino's house.

890
00:53:34,730 --> 00:53:36,130
Like he wants to take care of
you.

891
00:53:39,240 --> 00:53:42,080
Mary wasn't having that, and she
actually said to her parents,

892
00:53:42,600 --> 00:53:44,680
I'm going to live and die on
these streets.

893
00:53:45,320 --> 00:53:47,840
And two days later they found
her.

894
00:53:49,240 --> 00:53:51,840
We do know that she was out on
Halloween celebrating a friend's

895
00:53:51,840 --> 00:53:54,560
birthday at the Love Trap Bar on
Western Ave.

896
00:53:54,880 --> 00:53:58,920
She called Gino at about 11:45
PM to pick her up, but Gino was

897
00:53:58,920 --> 00:54:02,040
heading to Austin, TX to see his
father, who was dying in the

898
00:54:02,040 --> 00:54:05,560
hospital, and so a booty call
really wasn't on his mind that

899
00:54:05,560 --> 00:54:08,190
night.
The birthday girl, Diane

900
00:54:08,190 --> 00:54:11,630
Robinson, saw Mary at 1:15
talking to two black men from

901
00:54:11,630 --> 00:54:15,030
the club.
At 10:00 AM on November 1st, a

902
00:54:15,030 --> 00:54:18,110
father and son were walking
through an alley and they called

903
00:54:18,110 --> 00:54:20,070
it in.
Just like the other victims.

904
00:54:20,070 --> 00:54:21,550
Her clothes were pulled up and
down.

905
00:54:21,550 --> 00:54:24,750
She'd been shot at close range
of the 25, had cocaine and

906
00:54:24,750 --> 00:54:28,110
alcohol in her system.
The police followed a bunch of

907
00:54:28,110 --> 00:54:30,270
false leads and even
investigated the owner of the

908
00:54:30,270 --> 00:54:32,270
bar.
Every person they looked into

909
00:54:32,350 --> 00:54:35,070
either had a rock solid alibi or
didn't have the weapon they were

910
00:54:35,070 --> 00:54:38,690
looking for.
The LAPD ends up cutting the

911
00:54:38,690 --> 00:54:43,450
funding to the South Side Slayer
case to make space for Pope John

912
00:54:43,450 --> 00:54:46,410
Paul the Second visiting Los
Angeles.

913
00:54:49,010 --> 00:54:50,450
You know how I feel about stuff
like that.

914
00:54:51,370 --> 00:54:54,770
I just think, wow, you don't
know how many active serial

915
00:54:54,770 --> 00:54:57,250
killers you have in this city
right now, but we're going to

916
00:54:57,250 --> 00:55:01,970
cut the funding to find them.
It's for the Pope to visit and.

917
00:55:02,130 --> 00:55:05,010
Send all the cops to protect the
Pope.

918
00:55:06,880 --> 00:55:10,440
I mean.
Listen the the cops at that

919
00:55:10,440 --> 00:55:14,960
precinct of their boss, and it
wasn't that great because

920
00:55:14,960 --> 00:55:18,120
Margaret Prescott and the Black
Coalition fighting black serial

921
00:55:18,120 --> 00:55:22,280
murders was not happy with it
and was quoted as saying is this

922
00:55:22,280 --> 00:55:25,000
was another community in which
these murders had happened.

923
00:55:25,200 --> 00:55:28,120
You wouldn't have the
lackadaisical attitude that you

924
00:55:28,120 --> 00:55:31,520
see on the part of the police.
We are not convinced they've

925
00:55:31,520 --> 00:55:35,240
covered everything.
You ain't wrong.

926
00:55:35,400 --> 00:55:36,680
You ain't wrong.
Right.

927
00:55:36,680 --> 00:55:40,080
I was like, go ahead, Margaret,
you ain't wrong.

928
00:55:40,120 --> 00:55:43,520
Oh God.
On top of the South Central

929
00:55:43,520 --> 00:55:46,240
Slayer, there's an unparalleled
gang violence happening in the

930
00:55:46,280 --> 00:55:48,520
area too.
I don't know if you know this,

931
00:55:48,520 --> 00:55:51,720
listeners, but in the 1980s,
this was the time of the LA gang

932
00:55:51,720 --> 00:55:57,040
wars, with which amounted to
about 70,000 gang members as

933
00:55:57,040 --> 00:55:59,400
well as young kids who wanted to
be in the gangs.

934
00:55:59,400 --> 00:56:03,220
They called them wannabes.
All fighting simultaneously in

935
00:56:03,220 --> 00:56:06,460
LA.
Of those people, about 25,000 of

936
00:56:06,460 --> 00:56:09,060
them were young black men split
between the Crips and the

937
00:56:09,060 --> 00:56:11,100
Bloods.
The police were absolutely

938
00:56:11,100 --> 00:56:14,940
overwhelmed by fights, robbery,
shootings, random murders, Dr.

939
00:56:14,940 --> 00:56:18,220
Bys, you have that to contend
with.

940
00:56:18,740 --> 00:56:22,620
On top of the serial murders,
which we've now been undefunded,

941
00:56:24,300 --> 00:56:28,550
and this one's still going on.
It hasn't stopped yet, thank

942
00:56:28,670 --> 00:56:30,030
God.
So wait.

943
00:56:30,470 --> 00:56:32,710
So wait, wait, wait.
So wait.

944
00:56:32,950 --> 00:56:35,750
Hold on.
So the Pope he visits for like,

945
00:56:35,750 --> 00:56:36,990
what, a day or so?
Right.

946
00:56:36,990 --> 00:56:39,150
Like I think when he was in
Philly, he was here for a week,

947
00:56:40,150 --> 00:56:42,070
okay.
So after he leaves, does the

948
00:56:42,070 --> 00:56:44,910
funding go back to?
Them or they don't get the

949
00:56:44,910 --> 00:56:46,030
funding.
Of course not.

950
00:56:46,470 --> 00:56:48,510
They don't get the funding back.
Okay Okay.

951
00:56:48,550 --> 00:56:50,630
They use the money that they
probably would have given them

952
00:56:50,630 --> 00:56:54,130
for the rest of the year.
To fund all of the people who

953
00:56:54,130 --> 00:56:58,570
probably had to the overtime to
stay and keep watch over him and

954
00:56:58,570 --> 00:57:01,610
control the mass amount of
people who wanted to see him

955
00:57:01,610 --> 00:57:03,170
while he's in his little Pope
bubble.

956
00:57:04,170 --> 00:57:08,690
Yeah, yeah, that's not cool, OK?
I was just, I was just like they

957
00:57:08,690 --> 00:57:10,090
get the funding back, right?
No.

958
00:57:10,090 --> 00:57:11,810
OK.
No, it doesn't happen, OK.

959
00:57:12,010 --> 00:57:14,690
Never goes that way.
In the middle of that are these

960
00:57:14,690 --> 00:57:18,090
sporadic yet very violent
murders, all related to a 25

961
00:57:18,090 --> 00:57:20,850
caliber pistol.
Unfortunately for Lucretia

962
00:57:20,850 --> 00:57:23,770
Jefferson, this was a huge
murder that took place the same

963
00:57:23,770 --> 00:57:25,050
night.
There was another huge murder

964
00:57:25,050 --> 00:57:27,730
that took place the same night
that she was kidnapped and

965
00:57:27,730 --> 00:57:33,730
killed on January 30th, 1988.
In fact, the gang crime that

966
00:57:33,730 --> 00:57:37,410
happened that night was so big
that there was virtually no

967
00:57:37,410 --> 00:57:40,130
mention of Lucretia in the media
at all.

968
00:57:40,730 --> 00:57:44,090
What we do know about her and
the murder that happened to her

969
00:57:44,290 --> 00:57:49,250
is partially because of
Christine Pelsack.

970
00:57:50,300 --> 00:57:56,220
Who did The Who, who, who sought
out all of these family members

971
00:57:56,220 --> 00:57:58,940
to learn about these people
because there there's virtually

972
00:57:58,940 --> 00:58:04,460
no mention of Lacretia.
But what we do know about her is

973
00:58:04,540 --> 00:58:07,300
through her friends and family
who spoke to Christine, was that

974
00:58:07,300 --> 00:58:08,980
Lacretia was known for being in
the drugs.

975
00:58:09,780 --> 00:58:12,340
They called her LA Cretia
because she was a really big

976
00:58:12,340 --> 00:58:14,900
partier and she would spend all
her weekends at the Players

977
00:58:14,900 --> 00:58:17,420
Choice or the Total Experience
clubs.

978
00:58:18,280 --> 00:58:20,680
Her family wanted more and
better for her, and she would

979
00:58:20,720 --> 00:58:23,680
always tell her mom.
Wanda, you can't tell me what to

980
00:58:23,680 --> 00:58:25,480
do.
Oh my God.

981
00:58:26,080 --> 00:58:28,000
From a very young age, she was
super outgoing.

982
00:58:28,000 --> 00:58:30,080
She loves singing, dancing,
roller skating.

983
00:58:30,440 --> 00:58:32,440
She had dreams.
We all do.

984
00:58:33,160 --> 00:58:36,200
She spent most of her life with
her dad, James, in Kansas and

985
00:58:36,200 --> 00:58:39,800
moved back to LA.
And when she moved back to LA in

986
00:58:39,800 --> 00:58:42,200
the 80s, she got caught in the
crack of epidemic.

987
00:58:43,440 --> 00:58:46,360
The night before she died, she
stopped by her mom's house with

988
00:58:46,360 --> 00:58:48,500
a strange man.
And then went to her friend's

989
00:58:48,500 --> 00:58:51,140
house on Florence Blvd.
And then stopped by another

990
00:58:51,140 --> 00:58:54,060
friend's house, Jody, at 9:30
PM.

991
00:58:54,540 --> 00:58:58,020
Now Jody's apartment building
was a popular spot for people to

992
00:58:58,020 --> 00:58:59,860
score.
Apparently a lot of drug dealers

993
00:58:59,860 --> 00:59:04,580
live there.
Krisha left at 11:30 PM and an

994
00:59:04,580 --> 00:59:09,940
hour later Jody heard her
outside yelling at some guy.

995
00:59:09,940 --> 00:59:13,420
She was sitting in the passenger
seat of a white 4 door Mercedes

996
00:59:13,580 --> 00:59:16,340
that had racing stripes on the
side and there was a black man

997
00:59:16,340 --> 00:59:20,500
in the driver's seat.
So Jody was like, come back

998
00:59:20,500 --> 00:59:24,740
inside and Lucretia actually
listened.

999
00:59:25,900 --> 00:59:27,700
Yay.
She came back inside very

1000
00:59:27,780 --> 00:59:31,340
obviously high.
She told her friend.

1001
00:59:31,340 --> 00:59:33,580
She told Jody that the guy had
threatened her with a knife and

1002
00:59:33,580 --> 00:59:34,700
that's why she was yelling at
him.

1003
00:59:36,940 --> 00:59:39,420
The two of them just kind of
hung out, fell asleep on the

1004
00:59:39,420 --> 00:59:43,260
couch, just talking and you
know, to the to the morning and

1005
00:59:43,260 --> 00:59:45,500
when Jody's daughter's alarm
woke them both up.

1006
00:59:47,750 --> 00:59:51,670
Lacretia left her friend's house
and they found her in alley four

1007
00:59:51,670 --> 00:59:57,150
year 4 hours later just 4 miles
away from Jody's house.

1008
00:59:57,150 --> 00:59:59,670
The two people who discovered
the body called 911.

1009
01:00:00,030 --> 01:00:02,990
She was wearing a maroon dress.
Her underwear was gone.

1010
01:00:03,830 --> 01:00:05,670
There was no physical trauma
here.

1011
01:00:06,190 --> 01:00:09,990
He might have ambushed her.
However, her I D was gone.

1012
01:00:09,990 --> 01:00:12,550
There was a crack pipe in the
coat of her pocket, like the

1013
01:00:12,870 --> 01:00:14,880
pocket coat.
I wrote.

1014
01:00:14,960 --> 01:00:17,000
I wrote the code of her pocket
and my notes.

1015
01:00:18,080 --> 01:00:21,120
That, that is.
In her coat pocket.

1016
01:00:21,760 --> 01:00:24,400
The police assumed that she had
Od'd and somebody had just

1017
01:00:24,400 --> 01:00:27,160
dumped her.
And so they kind of sent her to

1018
01:00:27,160 --> 01:00:30,240
the LA County Medical Examiner's
Office to just have them do a

1019
01:00:30,240 --> 01:00:32,480
once over, you know, bag and
tag.

1020
01:00:33,240 --> 01:00:37,760
But the problem was, Dr. Susan
Selzer pulled her clothes off

1021
01:00:37,760 --> 01:00:40,920
and realized that there were 225
caliber slugs in her chest.

1022
01:00:41,390 --> 01:01:12,880
And called the police back.
She started staying out late,

1023
01:01:13,160 --> 01:00:44,350
not coming home.
Like, I think you need to see

1024
01:00:44,350 --> 01:00:48,950
that just like everybody else,
she had been drinking and doing

1025
01:00:48,950 --> 01:00:59,000
cocaine when she died.
So our next victim was Alicia

1026
01:00:59,000 --> 01:01:02,520
Alexander, also referred to as
Monique.

1027
01:01:03,880 --> 01:01:06,320
Monique's decline wasn't as
rabid as the other women we've

1028
01:01:06,320 --> 01:01:09,320
discussed so far.
In 12th grade she became really

1029
01:01:09,320 --> 01:01:15,930
unhappy and dropped out of.
Sometimes her parents said she'd

1030
01:01:15,930 --> 01:01:18,130
just get up and leave in the
middle of the night.

1031
01:01:18,810 --> 01:01:21,770
On July 5th, 1988, she got
arrested for possession of a

1032
01:01:21,770 --> 01:01:25,490
controlled substance, and she
started eating a man about 10

1033
01:01:25,490 --> 01:01:28,490
years older than her the night
she went missing.

1034
01:01:28,490 --> 01:01:32,690
Her parents assumed this was
just Monique being Monique, but

1035
01:01:33,130 --> 01:01:35,530
she usually wasn't gone for more
than a day or two.

1036
01:01:36,010 --> 01:01:38,810
Her boyfriend, Louis hadn't seen
her since Friday, September 2nd.

1037
01:01:39,470 --> 01:01:41,030
And her mother, Mary, was
worried.

1038
01:01:41,070 --> 01:01:44,510
And then Lewis showed up at the
house to pick her up for a date.

1039
01:01:45,070 --> 01:01:48,230
And then everyone kind of
realized nobody knew where she

1040
01:01:48,230 --> 01:01:50,830
was.
Lewis actually asked the

1041
01:01:50,830 --> 01:01:52,750
question that nobody was ready
to hear.

1042
01:01:52,750 --> 01:01:56,430
But perhaps because he was a
little bit older and he saw

1043
01:01:56,430 --> 01:01:59,990
Manique for who she really was,
he was just like, have you

1044
01:01:59,990 --> 01:02:05,630
checked the Morgues?
That's a bad sign already.

1045
01:02:06,620 --> 01:02:09,460
I mean, I think the reality was
that her boyfriend knew that she

1046
01:02:09,460 --> 01:02:12,980
was doing drugs and her parents,
Our parents always have the most

1047
01:02:12,980 --> 01:02:35,740
idealistic vision of us.
LAPD was on the scene.

1048
01:02:16,860 --> 01:02:21,940
Well, a lot of them do.
Not everybody, but September

1049
01:02:21,940 --> 01:02:26,820
11th 1988 there were four boys
between the ages of seven and 13

1050
01:02:27,060 --> 01:02:30,860
who are walking a dog through an
alley and saw the very rotten

1051
01:02:30,900 --> 01:02:37,380
corpse that ended up being.
And pretty quickly.

1052
01:02:37,380 --> 01:02:39,220
And they were able to tell that
she'd been dead for several

1053
01:02:39,220 --> 01:02:40,860
days.
She was nude.

1054
01:02:41,180 --> 01:02:44,860
Her shirt was twisted around her
neck, her ID was gone, and there

1055
01:02:44,860 --> 01:02:47,900
were small caliber bullet holes
in under her left breast.

1056
01:02:48,220 --> 01:02:52,620
She was so decomposed that she
was actually labeled Jane Doe 59

1057
01:02:52,900 --> 01:02:56,820
until 1 lone fingerprint was
connected to her arrest near her

1058
01:02:56,820 --> 01:02:59,620
18th birthday.
She tested positive for cocaine

1059
01:02:59,620 --> 01:03:02,020
and alcohol.
It was just the same as every

1060
01:03:02,020 --> 01:03:04,260
other murder and they were no
closer to solving it.

1061
01:03:05,220 --> 01:03:07,340
The police realized that the
position of the bullets the

1062
01:03:07,340 --> 01:03:10,140
killer showed that the killer
was always to the left of the

1063
01:03:10,140 --> 01:03:14,020
victims and he didn't stray out
of a very small kill zone.

1064
01:03:14,700 --> 01:03:17,820
We're talking about like one or
two mile radius.

1065
01:03:20,300 --> 01:03:23,100
Monique's death gave them
another eyewitness who had seen

1066
01:03:23,100 --> 01:03:27,300
Monique get into a Ford Pinto or
Chevrolet Vega that had a loud

1067
01:03:27,300 --> 01:03:32,020
muffler and tinted windows at
about 11:00 PM on September 6th,

1068
01:03:32,500 --> 01:03:34,420
the corner of 59th and Normandy
Ave.

1069
01:03:35,630 --> 01:03:37,870
They look for the car, but
nothing came from that.

1070
01:03:40,110 --> 01:03:44,270
Now let's phase over to Lonnie
and what he's been doing other

1071
01:03:44,270 --> 01:03:46,590
than what we know is killing
these poor women.

1072
01:03:47,510 --> 01:03:49,270
Lonnie is building the perfect
persona.

1073
01:03:49,950 --> 01:03:54,670
He is a loving, doting father
who always helps his neighbors.

1074
01:03:54,670 --> 01:03:59,070
He's giving to the needy, fixing
the elderly people's cars in the

1075
01:03:59,070 --> 01:04:01,150
neighborhood whenever they need
it.

1076
01:04:02,260 --> 01:04:04,820
Never seen smoking any kind of
drugs.

1077
01:04:04,820 --> 01:04:06,860
Of course not.
No, not in public.

1078
01:04:07,580 --> 01:04:10,540
He even was telling people that
he was a teetotaler and we

1079
01:04:10,540 --> 01:04:12,740
hadn't heard that term in a
while, right?

1080
01:04:13,660 --> 01:04:16,860
No.
Not that's that's like the old,

1081
01:04:16,860 --> 01:04:20,700
like early 1900s phrases.
But essentially that's the

1082
01:04:20,700 --> 01:04:22,780
equivalent of what we might call
straight edge today.

1083
01:04:23,720 --> 01:04:26,960
He had presented himself as his
loving husband and no one would

1084
01:04:27,000 --> 01:04:30,160
ever even doubt that he took
care of his wife Sylvia.

1085
01:04:30,440 --> 01:04:34,720
He's a pillar of the community.
Well, the truth was, Lonnie had

1086
01:04:34,720 --> 01:04:37,080
developed a serious taste for
prostitutes.

1087
01:04:37,280 --> 01:04:42,160
He had at least four separate
serious girlfriends during the

1088
01:04:42,160 --> 01:04:46,200
years He was committing all
these murders now because they

1089
01:04:46,200 --> 01:04:48,440
weren't enough to really pull
his appetite.

1090
01:04:49,180 --> 01:04:52,580
He saw prostitutes often, and
apparently bragged about it to

1091
01:04:52,580 --> 01:04:55,700
most of his friends.
He also kept photos of these

1092
01:04:55,700 --> 01:04:59,340
conquests, and he referred to
them by their breast size and

1093
01:04:59,340 --> 01:05:03,820
shape, like droopy titties, or
by a body part in general, like

1094
01:05:03,900 --> 01:05:08,260
big legs.
He kept all these photos in

1095
01:05:08,260 --> 01:05:11,420
which he had removed the not.
Either he hadn't photographed

1096
01:05:11,420 --> 01:05:16,180
the woman's head or cut them off
in a camper on their property or

1097
01:05:16,180 --> 01:05:19,410
in his garage.
He also kept a bag of bras and

1098
01:05:19,450 --> 01:05:22,290
underwear that he told his
friends that he bought for his

1099
01:05:22,290 --> 01:05:27,010
girlfriends, but I think those
were trophies of his.

1100
01:05:27,210 --> 01:05:28,490
Victim.
Yeah, sounds like.

1101
01:05:30,250 --> 01:05:33,690
It he even referred to the women
he was sleeping with as his

1102
01:05:33,690 --> 01:05:37,650
trophies and he would stop by
his friends homes with them,

1103
01:05:37,650 --> 01:05:41,290
like in the car with him.
He was bold.

1104
01:05:41,720 --> 01:05:44,720
And he gained more confidence.
He started telling women he was

1105
01:05:44,720 --> 01:05:47,880
a pornographer.
He convinced them to pose for

1106
01:05:47,880 --> 01:05:52,640
his collection.
He was also known for showing

1107
01:05:52,640 --> 01:05:57,320
off a 25 caliber pistol that he
kept in his front pocket at all

1108
01:05:57,360 --> 01:05:57,800
times.
No.

1109
01:05:59,840 --> 01:06:01,240
No.
I'm sorry.

1110
01:06:02,400 --> 01:06:05,680
No, no.
In the news now did they say

1111
01:06:06,160 --> 01:06:11,070
about the gun in the news?
No, interestingly enough, they

1112
01:06:11,070 --> 01:06:13,910
were worried because if you
remember when we watched the

1113
01:06:13,910 --> 01:06:18,790
Night Stalker case, when they
gave too many details that one

1114
01:06:18,790 --> 01:06:21,910
mayor gave the details of his
shoes, he wore different shoes

1115
01:06:21,910 --> 01:06:24,910
from that point.
So the police were actually the

1116
01:06:24,910 --> 01:06:28,070
police who were working this
case were worried that if they

1117
01:06:28,070 --> 01:06:32,830
released too many details about
him, he would change up his MO.

1118
01:06:33,860 --> 01:06:38,260
This caused a lot of just
friction between the families of

1119
01:06:38,260 --> 01:06:46,180
the victims and the homicide
detectives, and the chief of

1120
01:06:46,220 --> 01:06:49,140
LAPD actually were at odds about
this.

1121
01:06:49,580 --> 01:06:51,780
They were like, people need to
know about this.

1122
01:06:51,980 --> 01:06:54,500
We need to release details.
That's what the chief wanted.

1123
01:06:54,700 --> 01:06:57,460
But the homicide detectives were
like, no, he's gonna change it

1124
01:06:57,460 --> 01:06:59,620
up and then we're gonna lose him
entirely.

1125
01:06:59,780 --> 01:07:02,100
Yeah, sorry.
All over again.

1126
01:07:02,180 --> 01:07:03,580
Yeah, yeah, I get that.
OK.

1127
01:07:04,260 --> 01:07:06,310
Just just wondering.
I do remember.

1128
01:07:06,310 --> 01:07:07,750
I really understand.
Yeah, I remember the Night

1129
01:07:07,750 --> 01:07:09,390
Stalker.
And I'm like, yeah, everyone the

1130
01:07:09,390 --> 01:07:10,190
mayor.
They're fucking.

1131
01:07:11,190 --> 01:07:15,670
It's such a it's such a 5050
like you don't know because that

1132
01:07:15,670 --> 01:07:18,590
bear, everyone was really mad at
her because they were like we

1133
01:07:18,590 --> 01:07:22,270
had his feet print in these
specific, very distinctive

1134
01:07:22,270 --> 01:07:25,810
shoes.
At like 14 locations.

1135
01:07:34,730 --> 01:07:27,970
Thanks a lot.
And you mentioned those very

1136
01:07:27,970 --> 01:07:31,970
specific shoes of which there
were only like 100 sold in Los

1137
01:07:31,970 --> 01:07:34,210
Angeles and now he's wearing
new.

1138
01:07:35,890 --> 01:07:39,530
Piece of shit.
Yeah, because, I mean, if you

1139
01:07:39,530 --> 01:07:42,210
remember, the Night Stalker was
using multiple methods to kill

1140
01:07:42,210 --> 01:07:43,890
people.
He really didn't have a

1141
01:07:43,890 --> 01:07:47,330
signature, proper method.
Yeah, He didn't have a signature

1142
01:07:47,330 --> 01:07:52,760
in terms of methodology.
So the only thing they had in

1143
01:07:52,760 --> 01:07:58,400
the beginning was the shoes and
the fact that he just got caught

1144
01:07:58,400 --> 01:08:00,520
a couple times and didn't seem
to care.

1145
01:08:00,920 --> 01:08:04,000
But regardless, now talking
about Lonnie.

1146
01:08:04,280 --> 01:08:07,400
Somebody who cruises for sex on
pretty much a daily basis is

1147
01:08:07,400 --> 01:08:10,440
bound to get arrested.
And Lonnie really wasn't a

1148
01:08:10,440 --> 01:08:13,160
stranger to police.
In fact, he managed to keep a

1149
01:08:13,160 --> 01:08:17,960
lot of these arrests away from
his wife and he got arrested for

1150
01:08:17,960 --> 01:08:20,310
Grand Theft.
Burglary, carrying a loaded

1151
01:08:20,310 --> 01:08:25,590
firearm, possession of burglary
tools, and he managed to keep

1152
01:08:25,710 --> 01:08:29,550
all of that away from his wife
for several years.

1153
01:08:29,790 --> 01:08:31,990
Eventually he can't.
He gets in big trouble.

1154
01:08:32,310 --> 01:08:35,270
But for a couple years he's just
doing stuff and.

1155
01:08:35,950 --> 01:08:38,310
His wife has no idea.
Nope.

1156
01:08:38,990 --> 01:08:40,470
Now here's the crazy thing about
this.

1157
01:08:40,750 --> 01:08:44,109
Despite all of this, though, the
police never suspected a John of

1158
01:08:44,109 --> 01:08:47,430
being the killer.
Because most of the victims were

1159
01:08:47,430 --> 01:08:48,830
not.
Sex workers.

1160
01:08:49,130 --> 01:08:52,850
There were maybe one or two who
did a little bit of, you know,

1161
01:08:53,170 --> 01:08:56,810
work to get drugs, but the
majority of the victims weren't

1162
01:08:56,810 --> 01:08:59,689
sex workers, so they didn't
assume it was applying.

1163
01:09:01,330 --> 01:09:05,890
Lonnie went unchecked and
unafraid until November 20th,

1164
01:09:05,890 --> 01:09:09,689
1988, when he tried to kill
Anita Washington.

1165
01:09:11,810 --> 01:09:15,529
Now Anita Washington was about
to have a really terrible

1166
01:09:15,529 --> 01:09:18,560
weekend.
On Saturday, November 19th,

1167
01:09:18,560 --> 01:09:21,240
1988, a 4.5 magnitude earthquake
hit.

1168
01:09:21,240 --> 01:09:23,399
The area.
She had just gotten back into

1169
01:09:23,399 --> 01:09:27,520
town from Louisiana, had gone to
work where she did cleaning,

1170
01:09:27,520 --> 01:09:29,479
shopping and chores for elderly
people.

1171
01:09:29,680 --> 01:09:32,200
She had two kids and she had
secured a babysitter.

1172
01:09:32,399 --> 01:09:35,240
So she was like, I'm not gonna
little little earthquake ruin my

1173
01:09:35,240 --> 01:09:38,800
night.
Her plan was to go to her

1174
01:09:38,800 --> 01:09:42,080
friend's house for a party and
then go to go to her friend's

1175
01:09:42,080 --> 01:09:44,640
house and then the three of them
would leave and go to a party.

1176
01:09:44,640 --> 01:09:49,000
It was in front of her husband.
So as Anitra is walking, she's

1177
01:09:49,200 --> 01:09:51,120
only lives a couple of blocks
away from her friends.

1178
01:09:51,439 --> 01:09:55,560
This man in an orange Ford Pinto
with a racing stripe on the hood

1179
01:09:55,560 --> 01:09:58,240
pulls up on her.
And at first she's just like,

1180
01:09:58,320 --> 01:10:01,840
oh, look at this weirdo, He's
got glasses, he's giving off big

1181
01:10:01,840 --> 01:10:05,680
dork vibes.
And so he, like, yelled at her

1182
01:10:05,680 --> 01:10:07,200
and she ignored him and she kept
walking.

1183
01:10:07,200 --> 01:10:10,120
And then he pulled up alongside
of her and she was just like,

1184
01:10:10,120 --> 01:10:12,920
listen, don't holler at me from
a car.

1185
01:10:13,040 --> 01:10:16,160
You have to get out and talk to
me now, usually.

1186
01:10:17,140 --> 01:10:19,220
For people who've lived in a big
city, because I lived in Philly

1187
01:10:19,220 --> 01:10:22,420
for a big chunk of my life, that
usually stops them.

1188
01:10:22,540 --> 01:10:26,180
They just ride on.
But not in this case.

1189
01:10:27,380 --> 01:10:29,300
Surprisingly, he got out of the
car.

1190
01:10:29,620 --> 01:10:31,860
He offered her a ride to her
friend's house, and she was

1191
01:10:31,860 --> 01:10:34,660
like, no, that's OK, I'm good.
It's only a couple blocks away.

1192
01:10:35,420 --> 01:10:37,980
And what Lonnie Franklin Jr.
says next, I think completely

1193
01:10:37,980 --> 01:10:40,300
explains his entire relationship
with black women.

1194
01:10:40,580 --> 01:10:44,540
And if I'm honest, if you want
to make me mad, this is one of

1195
01:10:44,540 --> 01:10:48,440
the things that triggers me.
When black men say it and I

1196
01:10:48,520 --> 01:10:51,680
instantly get pissed off, here's
the exact quote.

1197
01:10:51,920 --> 01:10:53,640
That's what's wrong with you
black women.

1198
01:10:53,920 --> 01:10:56,880
People can't be nice to you.
Exactly.

1199
01:10:56,960 --> 01:11:01,160
Exactly.
Oh, it makes me so mad.

1200
01:11:03,270 --> 01:11:06,510
Because it's a statement that
harnesses all of the stereotypes

1201
01:11:06,510 --> 01:11:08,430
of black women in it, towards
us, with it.

1202
01:11:08,630 --> 01:11:11,430
Because if you get mad now
you're an angry black woman.

1203
01:11:11,510 --> 01:11:13,670
Because we're not allowed
righteous indignation, right?

1204
01:11:13,790 --> 01:11:16,830
So what ends up happening is
that you soften and you let this

1205
01:11:16,910 --> 01:11:20,390
asshole run his game, or you
give him your number and hands

1206
01:11:20,390 --> 01:11:23,990
down, you always regret it.
But the guy gets what he wanted

1207
01:11:23,990 --> 01:11:27,790
by reminding you of how much the
world hates you by going.

1208
01:11:27,950 --> 01:11:32,030
At least I'm interested in you.
Nobody else likes girls like

1209
01:11:32,030 --> 01:11:33,910
you.
She actually laughed.

1210
01:11:34,070 --> 01:11:36,550
She softened.
She was just like, wow, that

1211
01:11:36,550 --> 01:11:38,470
took some courage to say that to
my face.

1212
01:11:39,310 --> 01:11:42,910
Yeah, we're punched in the face.
She kind of took pity on the

1213
01:11:42,910 --> 01:11:43,630
guy.
She's a lot.

1214
01:11:43,630 --> 01:11:46,230
Taller than him?
He's short.

1215
01:11:46,590 --> 01:11:49,150
She was like, he tried to get at
her and she was like, it's only

1216
01:11:49,150 --> 01:11:50,630
a couple blocks.
What's the worst that could

1217
01:11:50,630 --> 01:11:53,310
happen?
Which is the same thing that

1218
01:11:53,310 --> 01:11:57,990
women always say what second
happen someone could try to

1219
01:11:57,990 --> 01:11:58,790
kill.
You that's.

1220
01:12:01,250 --> 01:12:05,650
Exactly.
Well as Anitra.

1221
01:12:05,650 --> 01:12:07,090
Got in the car.
She did notice.

1222
01:12:07,130 --> 01:12:10,770
A lug nut wrench on the floor
and the fact that his dashboard

1223
01:12:10,770 --> 01:12:12,970
was cracked.
She kind of ignored it and she

1224
01:12:12,970 --> 01:12:15,330
told him where she was going.
Almost immediately he went the

1225
01:12:15,330 --> 01:12:17,730
wrong direction.
He told her he had to get

1226
01:12:17,730 --> 01:12:19,970
something from his uncle's house
in only a couple minutes.

1227
01:12:20,450 --> 01:12:23,690
He did stop at a house on 81st
Street, but she said when he

1228
01:12:23,690 --> 01:12:26,330
came back he was different.
He called her by the wrong name

1229
01:12:26,850 --> 01:12:28,650
and she told him That's not my
name.

1230
01:12:28,960 --> 01:12:31,000
He reached into the.
Driver's side door and shot her

1231
01:12:31,000 --> 01:12:34,920
point blank in the chest.
She actually grabbed.

1232
01:12:34,920 --> 01:12:36,440
The handle and was
contemplating.

1233
01:12:36,480 --> 01:12:38,960
Rolling out into the street.
But he was like, I will shoot

1234
01:12:38,960 --> 01:12:42,160
you again.
He kept calling her the wrong

1235
01:12:42,160 --> 01:12:42,960
name.
He kept calling her.

1236
01:12:42,960 --> 01:12:45,920
Brenda, she's She begged him to
take her to the hospital.

1237
01:12:46,160 --> 01:12:49,080
He was like, no, I can't do
that, she told him.

1238
01:12:49,360 --> 01:12:56,240
If I die, I'm gonna haunt you.
I just love the yo and each her

1239
01:12:56,240 --> 01:13:00,210
is dope.
Sometime during the drive, she.

1240
01:13:00,210 --> 01:13:02,730
Started to black out.
And when she woke up, he was on

1241
01:13:02,730 --> 01:13:04,650
top of her, pulling her skirt
up.

1242
01:13:04,970 --> 01:13:07,130
She was losing so much blood,
though, that she couldn't stay

1243
01:13:07,130 --> 01:13:10,370
awake during the attack.
She remembers seeing the flash

1244
01:13:10,370 --> 01:13:13,330
of a Polaroid camera.
She remembers hearing the engine

1245
01:13:13,330 --> 01:13:17,010
start, and she remembers him
pushing her out onto the street

1246
01:13:17,330 --> 01:13:19,770
and driving away.
She was actually afraid to move

1247
01:13:19,770 --> 01:13:22,210
at first, because she wasn't
sure that he was done.

1248
01:13:23,970 --> 01:13:26,290
Like now it's.
Dark.

1249
01:13:26,690 --> 01:13:29,210
She's very weak.
She She's aware.

1250
01:13:29,210 --> 01:13:32,570
Of where is she lives and the
fact that nobody's gonna open

1251
01:13:32,570 --> 01:13:34,850
the door for a gunshot victim in
South Central.

1252
01:13:35,130 --> 01:13:38,730
So bleeding to death, she walks
the three blocks to her friend

1253
01:13:38,730 --> 01:13:42,250
Linda's house and just starts
yelling like help me open the

1254
01:13:42,250 --> 01:13:46,210
door and collapses on the porch.
Now Linda and her husband had

1255
01:13:46,210 --> 01:13:49,370
left and gone to the party
without her because they assumed

1256
01:13:49,370 --> 01:13:50,890
she must have been doing
something else.

1257
01:13:51,130 --> 01:13:55,410
And we didn't have cell phones
back then, so they didn't really

1258
01:13:55,410 --> 01:13:56,530
have a way to.
Connect with her.

1259
01:13:58,300 --> 01:14:02,260
So by the time I need to got to
the house, Linda and husband are

1260
01:14:02,260 --> 01:14:04,820
already gone.
When they get home at about 2:00

1261
01:14:04,940 --> 01:14:08,860
AM on November 20th, they find
Anitra in the field position

1262
01:14:09,020 --> 01:14:13,620
bleeding Linda.
I think her husband at first

1263
01:14:13,620 --> 01:14:15,900
just thought like this was a
random crime.

1264
01:14:16,140 --> 01:14:18,700
And Linda noticed that her
friend's underwear had been

1265
01:14:18,740 --> 01:14:21,260
ripped and we're like hanging
off of her leg.

1266
01:14:21,740 --> 01:14:24,820
And Linda called the ambulance
and gave them the heads up that

1267
01:14:24,820 --> 01:14:28,890
this looked like a sex crime.
And nature was rushed to the

1268
01:14:28,890 --> 01:14:30,610
harbor.
UCLA Medical Center in.

1269
01:14:30,610 --> 01:14:33,330
Torrance, about 11 miles away.
She had to be put in a

1270
01:14:33,330 --> 01:14:36,050
compression jacket because her
pressure was so low.

1271
01:14:36,730 --> 01:14:40,850
She lost 20% of her blood volume
and was absolutely going into

1272
01:14:40,850 --> 01:14:45,210
like multi system shot, yeah.
It took.

1273
01:14:45,210 --> 01:14:47,170
Four days for the surgeons to
actually.

1274
01:14:47,170 --> 01:14:52,610
Stabilize her enough to do the
surgery to remove the the bullet

1275
01:14:52,610 --> 01:14:56,570
from her chest.
It had very narrowly missed her

1276
01:14:56,570 --> 01:14:59,930
heart.
Once the LAPD.

1277
01:14:59,930 --> 01:15:01,650
Got the slug they tested?
Of course.

1278
01:15:01,650 --> 01:15:03,090
It's.
A match to Barbara Ware and

1279
01:15:03,090 --> 01:15:05,770
Deborah Jackson had Rihanna
Wright and Bernita Sparks and

1280
01:15:05,770 --> 01:15:09,330
Mary Lowe and Monique Alexander
and Lacretia Jefferson.

1281
01:15:09,610 --> 01:15:12,410
This was the chance, however,
that the LAPD had been looking

1282
01:15:12,410 --> 01:15:14,410
for.
She needed to survive so they

1283
01:15:14,410 --> 01:15:18,610
could talk to her, right?
Yes, save her life.

1284
01:15:20,170 --> 01:15:21,450
They absolutely did when she
came.

1285
01:15:22,690 --> 01:15:25,690
She gave them a very good
description of his face, his

1286
01:15:25,690 --> 01:15:27,730
car.
She told them exactly where they

1287
01:15:27,730 --> 01:15:30,290
stopped for him because he said
he had to pick up money on 81st

1288
01:15:30,290 --> 01:15:32,530
St.
She remembered everything, even

1289
01:15:32,530 --> 01:15:36,130
the books that he had in his car
that she saw when he dragged her

1290
01:15:36,130 --> 01:15:38,210
into the back.
She said that there were

1291
01:15:38,210 --> 01:15:41,130
different kinds of mechanics,
tools that were in the back,

1292
01:15:41,290 --> 01:15:44,530
like the hatchback now.
Anita was released on December

1293
01:15:44,530 --> 01:15:49,050
7th and she immediately took the
police to the store where she

1294
01:15:49,050 --> 01:15:53,510
had been walking by when.
They met and then showed them

1295
01:15:53,510 --> 01:15:55,870
where they stopped.
The police eventually got a

1296
01:15:55,910 --> 01:16:00,430
warrant for that house on 81st
St. on February 15th, 1989, But

1297
01:16:00,430 --> 01:16:03,630
that owner had a different 25
caliber weapon and it wasn't the

1298
01:16:03,630 --> 01:16:08,110
right one.
It was such a good lead, went

1299
01:16:08,110 --> 01:16:14,470
nowhere and the police didn't
really have time to focus on it

1300
01:16:14,470 --> 01:16:16,590
too much because the South Side
Slayer was.

1301
01:16:17,050 --> 01:16:20,930
Back to killing people again at
the rate of about one woman a

1302
01:16:20,930 --> 01:16:23,930
month, but they had the
description and everything.

1303
01:16:24,410 --> 01:16:26,170
They.
Did and they put that up, but

1304
01:16:26,170 --> 01:16:29,890
nobody came.
Now the Slayer would be named in

1305
01:16:29,890 --> 01:16:32,650
19. 93 as.
Michael Hughes and Since death

1306
01:16:32,650 --> 01:16:35,210
for the murders of Yvonne
Coleman, 15.

1307
01:16:35,210 --> 01:16:38,210
Vernon Wolmes, 36, Both of them
killed in 1986.

1308
01:16:38,370 --> 01:16:42,960
Harriet McKinley. 30 killed in
87 Teresa Ballard, 26, Brenda

1309
01:16:42,960 --> 01:16:47,680
Bradley, 38 both in 1992, and
then Terry Miles, 33 and Jamil

1310
01:16:47,680 --> 01:16:51,520
Harrington both in 1993.
It is believed that the actual

1311
01:16:51,520 --> 01:16:55,320
Slayer, Michael Hughes, was
responsible for more murders at

1312
01:16:55,320 --> 01:16:58,000
the same time as the Grim
Sleeper, but these seven were

1313
01:16:58,000 --> 01:17:00,040
enough to get him the death
penalty and keep him off the

1314
01:17:00,040 --> 01:17:02,440
street for life.
According to the LAPD, they

1315
01:17:02,440 --> 01:17:06,040
believe that no less than six
killers were active between 1980

1316
01:17:06,040 --> 01:17:08,840
and 1999.
And that's not a counting.

1317
01:17:09,240 --> 01:17:13,600
For the rest of LA or the rest
of California, what the fuck?

1318
01:17:13,920 --> 01:17:16,560
Yes, South Central, what the?
Fuck.

1319
01:17:16,560 --> 01:17:19,400
Was going on.
Now the attack on.

1320
01:17:19,400 --> 01:17:21,320
Anitra was the.
Last of the 25.

1321
01:17:21,320 --> 01:17:24,120
Caliber murders.
And they really wondered why.

1322
01:17:24,400 --> 01:17:26,680
Maybe he was scared because he
left a witness.

1323
01:17:27,040 --> 01:17:30,080
Maybe all the pictures of his
face papered all over town had

1324
01:17:30,080 --> 01:17:33,200
him shook.
But by spring of 1989, it was

1325
01:17:33,200 --> 01:17:37,690
now officially a cold case.
And the South Side Slayer task.

1326
01:17:37,690 --> 01:17:42,530
Force was.
Officially disbanded. 1990 hit.

1327
01:17:42,530 --> 01:17:45,610
South Central and.
It didn't get a lot better

1328
01:17:46,050 --> 01:17:46,730
crack.
Was still.

1329
01:17:47,290 --> 01:17:48,890
The gang wars are still a
problem.

1330
01:17:49,170 --> 01:17:51,890
And then they had to contend
with the LA riots after Rodney

1331
01:17:51,890 --> 01:17:55,570
King was brutalized by the
police on March 3rd, 1991 and

1332
01:17:55,570 --> 01:17:58,850
the murder of Latasha Harlins
after a Korean store owner shot

1333
01:17:58,850 --> 01:18:03,850
a 15 year old in the back of her
head only over $1.79 orange

1334
01:18:03,850 --> 01:18:06,560
juice.
Those were the 2.

1335
01:18:07,040 --> 01:18:10,400
Clinching.
Acts that caused the riots which

1336
01:18:10,400 --> 01:18:13,440
went from night April 29th to
May 4th.

1337
01:18:15,240 --> 01:18:17,120
This was a major aspect.
Of my life.

1338
01:18:17,320 --> 01:18:22,200
I remember sitting at home
watching this on TV with my

1339
01:18:22,200 --> 01:18:26,120
family.
Then right after that LA had to

1340
01:18:26,120 --> 01:18:29,320
contend with OJ Simpson.
I also remember.

1341
01:18:29,320 --> 01:18:31,680
Watching that, Remember that
vaguely.

1342
01:18:32,840 --> 01:18:39,090
The entire June 13th. 1994.
The That was when.

1343
01:18:39,090 --> 01:18:41,570
Nicole Brown was murdered along
with that guy.

1344
01:18:41,570 --> 01:18:46,170
I can't remember his name, but
Nicole Brown is.

1345
01:18:46,170 --> 01:18:47,330
The one who?
Cared.

1346
01:18:47,330 --> 01:18:50,290
About to be fair.
And I think it was something

1347
01:18:50,330 --> 01:18:52,650
right.
I gotta look.

1348
01:18:52,650 --> 01:18:54,770
It up you, you say?
Ron, my brain just.

1349
01:18:54,770 --> 01:18:56,450
Goes Swanson.
And that's not his name.

1350
01:18:57,610 --> 01:19:02,850
No, not Ron Swanson.
Let's see Nicole Brown.

1351
01:19:04,070 --> 01:19:11,430
And Ronald Gold, there you go.
Yeah, well, the LAPD.

1352
01:19:11,430 --> 01:19:12,790
Didn't do really.
Well, with that.

1353
01:19:12,790 --> 01:19:16,390
Whole situation because how of
how they handled it and some say

1354
01:19:16,390 --> 01:19:21,590
botched the OJ arrest in trial
1999 came out.

1355
01:19:21,590 --> 01:19:22,950
Swinging with.
A huge.

1356
01:19:22,950 --> 01:19:26,750
Corruption scandal in the LAPD
known as the Rampart scandal

1357
01:19:26,950 --> 01:19:30,150
around the Rampart police
station and it was all about a

1358
01:19:30,150 --> 01:19:35,530
super corrupt anti gang unit.
That all started when officer.

1359
01:19:35,530 --> 01:19:38,210
Rafael Perez got.
Busted for stealing cocaine that

1360
01:19:38,210 --> 01:19:41,970
was in evidence.
And he told on Everybody the

1361
01:19:41,970 --> 01:19:45,090
whole department was making
false arrests, tamper with

1362
01:19:45,090 --> 01:19:48,410
evidence, writing bad police
reports and using suspects,

1363
01:19:48,610 --> 01:19:51,610
planting evidence on civilians.
I'm going down.

1364
01:19:51,610 --> 01:19:55,330
Y'all going down with me.
Major media nightmare for the

1365
01:19:55,330 --> 01:19:57,090
LAPD They.
Just did.

1366
01:19:57,090 --> 01:19:59,450
They had a bad 90s?
Yeah, that was bad.

1367
01:20:01,280 --> 01:20:03,560
Listen, the 80s was full of
serial killer.

1368
01:20:04,400 --> 01:20:06,760
I mean the 80s and then the 90s,
yeah.

1369
01:20:06,760 --> 01:20:10,440
And the 90s, Yeah, because.
It didn't stop well, and so the

1370
01:20:10,440 --> 01:20:14,880
police well, DNA, DNA evidence.
Got better?

1371
01:20:15,280 --> 01:20:22,280
Over that decade and the police
began resubmitting DNA from old

1372
01:20:22,280 --> 01:20:29,990
cases to attempt to 1.
Remove the absolute multitude of

1373
01:20:30,110 --> 01:20:34,430
cold case files that they have
and immediately, though this

1374
01:20:34,430 --> 01:20:37,230
doesn't give them any leads.
On the 20. 5 caliber murders Now

1375
01:20:37,310 --> 01:20:38,710
what's our boy Lonnie doing at
this time?

1376
01:20:39,110 --> 01:20:41,830
Well, he went back in hiding,
focused on his illegal car

1377
01:20:41,830 --> 01:20:46,550
business, which actually got him
into big trouble with the LAPD.

1378
01:20:47,190 --> 01:20:50,910
In 1993 he was stealing auto
parts and selling them and using

1379
01:20:50,910 --> 01:20:54,550
them to fix cars and on February
25th 1993 they caught him.

1380
01:20:54,860 --> 01:20:58,260
With his son working on a stolen
car, a search of the property

1381
01:20:58,260 --> 01:21:01,580
showed five more stolen cars and
Lonnie got charged with six

1382
01:21:01,580 --> 01:21:05,460
counts of Grand Theft Auto.
He pled guilty to all six

1383
01:21:05,460 --> 01:21:06,380
counts.
And his.

1384
01:21:06,380 --> 01:21:09,180
Lawyers tried a hard to be like
this is his first defense.

1385
01:21:10,300 --> 01:21:13,100
He'll never do it again.
But the judge?

1386
01:21:13,100 --> 01:21:17,380
Had access to the police,
reports Brittany.

1387
01:21:18,060 --> 01:21:21,300
Yeah, as they had him.
In custody?

1388
01:21:22,060 --> 01:21:24,650
Oh yeah, so.
They couldn't have.

1389
01:21:24,650 --> 01:21:27,570
Been like, yo, I've seen this
face somewhere.

1390
01:21:28,250 --> 01:21:31,210
There's a sketch.
I know I've seen a sketch of

1391
01:21:31,210 --> 01:21:34,410
this face somewhere many like a
few years ago.

1392
01:21:35,010 --> 01:21:37,530
Like, yeah, it would have been
about four years before.

1393
01:21:37,650 --> 01:21:39,410
Yeah, they would have.
Had that composite out.

1394
01:21:40,210 --> 01:21:44,690
This is not like they don't just
like member, like, whatever.

1395
01:21:44,730 --> 01:21:47,490
I gotta be real for you.
Like a lot of these.

1396
01:21:47,490 --> 01:21:50,330
Dudes, when they get arrested,
they do like the scary face.

1397
01:21:51,180 --> 01:21:52,980
You look all me.
Oh, wow.

1398
01:21:53,300 --> 01:21:57,460
And they do kind of look.
Similar, it's just it's the the

1399
01:21:57,460 --> 01:21:58,740
mean.
Face the mean.

1400
01:21:58,740 --> 01:22:00,660
I killed somebody Thing.
I know, but damn.

1401
01:22:00,660 --> 01:22:02,820
Come on.
These like, OK, whatever, OK,

1402
01:22:02,820 --> 01:22:03,740
whatever.
I don't know.

1403
01:22:03,860 --> 01:22:07,020
Whatever, That's OK.
I understand the position.

1404
01:22:08,940 --> 01:22:12,620
Regardless though, the judge was
like you actually are connected

1405
01:22:12,620 --> 01:22:14,580
to like almost thirty stolen
cars.

1406
01:22:15,010 --> 01:22:17,570
And you've been stealing cars
since high school and there was

1407
01:22:17,570 --> 01:22:21,090
that gun possession charge and
receiving stolen property in 84

1408
01:22:21,330 --> 01:22:25,010
and the burglary tools of 89 and
assault with a deadly weapon in

1409
01:22:25,010 --> 01:22:27,690
1991 when you were fighting with
a prostitute.

1410
01:22:27,930 --> 01:22:30,530
You are not innocent by any
stretch of the means.

1411
01:22:31,410 --> 01:22:34,930
They gave him a year in county
because apparently stealing cars

1412
01:22:34,930 --> 01:22:38,330
is not that big of a fans.
Somehow he got out.

1413
01:22:38,330 --> 01:22:40,130
He got out within.
Four months because.

1414
01:22:40,250 --> 01:22:43,810
LA County prisons are overrun
with people who've done much

1415
01:22:43,810 --> 01:22:47,170
worse.
And he somehow managed to not go

1416
01:22:47,170 --> 01:22:49,570
back to prison.
Despite continuing to get

1417
01:22:49,570 --> 01:22:52,530
arrested for Grand Theft Auto
robbery and more assault with a

1418
01:22:52,530 --> 01:22:55,810
deadly weapon, he did pretty
much.

1419
01:22:55,970 --> 01:23:00,130
Everything.
That you can do except violate

1420
01:23:00,130 --> 01:23:03,850
his parole and had the one
stipulation for his parole was

1421
01:23:04,050 --> 01:23:07,970
you may not own or use a firearm
for the next three years.

1422
01:23:12,270 --> 01:23:14,990
So he didn't.
He just did everything else.

1423
01:23:14,990 --> 01:23:18,630
That you could possibly do.
I'm just really over the fact.

1424
01:23:18,630 --> 01:23:24,110
So he got, he got the, the the
gun with the assault with a

1425
01:23:24,110 --> 01:23:26,430
deadly weapon charge.
Was that a gun charge?

1426
01:23:26,430 --> 01:23:27,990
Right.
Nope.

1427
01:23:28,070 --> 01:23:29,990
No.
Fucking no.

1428
01:23:29,990 --> 01:23:31,830
That charge was because he got
in.

1429
01:23:32,150 --> 01:23:35,570
He got in a fight.
With a woman in the car and he

1430
01:23:35,730 --> 01:23:38,490
actually, like, tried to push
her out of the vehicle while it

1431
01:23:38,490 --> 01:23:41,730
was moving, they considered the
deadly weapon the car.

1432
01:23:42,930 --> 01:23:43,730
OK.
OK.

1433
01:23:43,770 --> 01:23:44,770
Yeah.
I heard.

1434
01:23:46,410 --> 01:23:49,330
I've heard that before, OK.
I guess, yeah, They were like,

1435
01:23:49,330 --> 01:23:51,050
you nearly killed her with the
car.

1436
01:23:51,050 --> 01:23:55,010
By not making sure she wasn't
still attached to it when you

1437
01:23:55,010 --> 01:23:57,610
pushed her out of it, but he got
and that was just because they

1438
01:23:57,610 --> 01:24:00,060
got into a fight.
But you got the the, the

1439
01:24:00,100 --> 01:24:02,900
freaking what the the gun charge
something what the gun charge

1440
01:24:02,900 --> 01:24:06,420
you said that was that was way
back though and it might not.

1441
01:24:06,420 --> 01:24:09,700
Have been the right.
Oh come on, he's just killing

1442
01:24:09,740 --> 01:24:16,140
me.
Well then, in 2000, he.

1443
01:24:16,140 --> 01:24:19,220
Started killing again.
The next victim wouldn't be

1444
01:24:19,220 --> 01:24:23,580
found until 2002.
Her name was Princess.

1445
01:24:23,820 --> 01:24:25,460
Breath of meow breath.
Of you.

1446
01:24:29,300 --> 01:24:31,100
Princess's.
Story was like the one that

1447
01:24:31,100 --> 01:24:34,540
literally.
Made me tear up when I was

1448
01:24:34,540 --> 01:24:37,660
writing it.
She's only 15 years old before

1449
01:24:37,660 --> 01:24:40,740
she met him, and she had a
really awful life.

1450
01:24:40,740 --> 01:24:43,940
She was abandoned by her mother
as a toddler, abused by her

1451
01:24:43,940 --> 01:24:46,940
father after that.
Removed from his care on October

1452
01:24:46,940 --> 01:24:51,700
14th when she was two years old.
1882 she was, apparently.

1453
01:24:51,700 --> 01:24:55,580
Accidentally also exposed to.
Cocaine by her father and

1454
01:24:55,700 --> 01:24:58,730
girlfriend.
And she was covered in cigarette

1455
01:24:58,730 --> 01:25:01,890
burns and marks from being hit
with a Switcher belt.

1456
01:25:15,930 --> 01:25:19,610
To the smart family and their
children and everything was

1457
01:25:19,610 --> 01:25:03,690
beautiful until 1990.
She was moved into a foster

1458
01:25:03,690 --> 01:25:06,850
family in 1990.
Her foster family said that she

1459
01:25:06,850 --> 01:25:11,290
would wake up just screaming.
She was three years old with

1460
01:25:11,290 --> 01:25:14,650
PTSD.
Eventually the things got better

1461
01:25:15,090 --> 01:25:24,490
and she.
When Dolores Smart died from

1462
01:25:24,690 --> 01:25:26,880
cancer.
And I can really say that I

1463
01:25:26,880 --> 01:25:28,680
understand how Princess would
feel here.

1464
01:25:28,680 --> 01:25:32,760
It's one thing to lose a mom,
but when that mom chooses you

1465
01:25:33,480 --> 01:25:35,880
and she dies, it feels
completely different.

1466
01:25:35,920 --> 01:25:41,160
Like, yeah, I believe.
I bet Princess never recovered

1467
01:25:41,160 --> 01:25:44,960
from this loss.
She got angry and insular.

1468
01:25:45,240 --> 01:25:48,720
Her other family didn't really
understand why she couldn't cope

1469
01:25:50,400 --> 01:25:52,120
her foster.
Father David.

1470
01:25:52,900 --> 01:25:57,180
Was also in poor health.
Congenitive, heart failure and

1471
01:25:57,180 --> 01:26:01,820
had three heart attacks, and he
had determined that he couldn't

1472
01:26:01,820 --> 01:26:04,620
take care of any of the foster
kids anymore.

1473
01:25:54,540 --> 01:26:14,500
He was going.
Who had moved out and she

1474
01:26:14,500 --> 01:26:05,900
attempted to help.
There were three of them,

1475
01:26:05,940 --> 01:26:10,420
Princess, and two other girls.
David did have an oldest child.

1476
01:26:16,020 --> 01:26:18,380
But Samara.
Was a full time college student

1477
01:26:18,460 --> 01:26:21,910
with three kids of her own.
So it was just too much for her

1478
01:26:21,910 --> 01:26:23,270
to now take care.
Of 6.

1479
01:26:25,310 --> 01:26:28,030
The two younger girls were.
Taken to another family.

1480
01:26:28,390 --> 01:26:31,790
And in 1988, Princess was back
in the foster Christian student

1481
01:26:31,830 --> 01:26:35,790
at 12 years old.
From that point forward.

1482
01:26:35,790 --> 01:26:39,270
She ran away from every foster.
Home she was placed in and she

1483
01:26:39,270 --> 01:26:43,230
was reported missing to the
Hawthorne Police on December

1484
01:26:43,230 --> 01:26:45,350
21st, 2001.
By her.

1485
01:26:45,350 --> 01:26:49,300
Foster mother Ronnie Smith.
She ended up working for a pimp

1486
01:26:49,340 --> 01:26:52,820
in Hawthorne and never went back
to any foster family again.

1487
01:26:54,860 --> 01:26:57,060
When the call came in.
Just after midnight on March

1488
01:26:57,060 --> 01:27:00,500
9th, 2:00. 1002 Nobody was
really thinking about the 25

1489
01:27:00,500 --> 01:27:05,340
caliber killer There was a naked
female body in.

1490
01:27:05,340 --> 01:27:08,820
An alley.
Behind the S Van Ness building,

1491
01:27:09,220 --> 01:27:11,780
Sorry.
Behind S Van Ness Blvd.

1492
01:27:12,020 --> 01:27:16,100
In Inglewood.
Medical Examiner Dr. Rafi

1493
01:27:16,100 --> 01:27:19,610
Jaborian.
Said that it had.

1494
01:27:22,650 --> 01:27:24,730
Was able.
To discover what happened three

1495
01:27:24,730 --> 01:27:26,010
days later on.
March 12th.

1496
01:27:26,250 --> 01:27:29,130
Her eyes were full and shut from
being hit in the face.

1497
01:27:29,370 --> 01:27:31,730
There was a ligature mark on the
back of her neck.

1498
01:27:32,170 --> 01:27:35,530
They could tell that she had
been sodomized from the blood in

1499
01:27:35,570 --> 01:27:38,930
and around the cavity.
She had been asphyxiated.

1500
01:27:39,410 --> 01:27:43,370
They named her Jane Go, 15, the
15th of the year, and it was

1501
01:27:43,370 --> 01:27:47,070
only March, God.
They made a sketch of her face.

1502
01:27:47,430 --> 01:27:50,550
They took a rape kit.
And her sketch was actually

1503
01:27:50,550 --> 01:27:53,190
handed out at a LAPD press
conference.

1504
01:27:53,630 --> 01:27:56,990
But nobody called for Princess.
But the forensics?

1505
01:27:56,990 --> 01:28:00,070
Team decided to keep.
They tested the rape kit and

1506
01:28:00,070 --> 01:28:05,430
they found a pancreatic enzyme
found in human saliva that

1507
01:28:05,510 --> 01:28:07,750
saliva was.
Swabbed on.

1508
01:28:07,750 --> 01:28:11,190
Her genitals, her right knee,
right ankle, left nipple, right

1509
01:28:11,190 --> 01:28:13,870
nipple and they processed the
samples.

1510
01:28:14,230 --> 01:28:17,230
Uploaded them to local, state
and federal DNA data.

1511
01:28:17,230 --> 01:28:20,950
Banks of Felons Princess
wouldn't be identified for

1512
01:28:20,950 --> 01:28:24,590
another. 5.
The next.

1513
01:28:24,590 --> 01:28:26,790
Victim was Valerie Louise
Mccorby on.

1514
01:28:26,790 --> 01:28:31,510
July 11th, 2003 A school
crossing guard arrived.

1515
01:28:31,550 --> 01:28:35,230
At.
Her spot at 6:35 AM and a man

1516
01:28:35,230 --> 01:28:37,270
pulled up beside her and was
like, you need to call the

1517
01:28:37,270 --> 01:28:39,590
police.
There's a dead body over there

1518
01:28:39,870 --> 01:28:42,790
and pointed to an alley.
And then drove off.

1519
01:28:43,310 --> 01:28:45,630
She didn't get a good look.
At the guy before he pulled

1520
01:28:45,630 --> 01:28:48,190
away.
But it was a light colored miss

1521
01:28:48,190 --> 01:28:50,870
size car.
I've always wondered and the

1522
01:28:50,870 --> 01:28:54,110
police never said this, but I
wonder if that was him.

1523
01:28:54,830 --> 01:28:58,510
It sounds like it probably could
have been like if there's

1524
01:28:58,510 --> 01:29:00,190
nothing in the official.
Records that they.

1525
01:29:00,190 --> 01:29:03,030
Think it was him who talked to
the crossing guard.

1526
01:29:03,310 --> 01:29:08,510
But like a lot of times, serial
killers get, they get ballsy and

1527
01:29:08,510 --> 01:29:10,810
they they want.
Should be they.

1528
01:29:10,810 --> 01:29:13,370
Want people to find the person?
So it could be on.

1529
01:29:13,370 --> 01:29:15,690
The news and they can feel like,
yeah, I did that.

1530
01:29:18,730 --> 01:29:20,810
Regardless, though, Valerie's
clothes were pulled up.

1531
01:29:21,050 --> 01:29:24,330
Down underwear was gone.
The.

1532
01:29:24,330 --> 01:29:26,570
Police realized.
That she had a road rash and a

1533
01:29:26,570 --> 01:29:29,850
bruise on her shoulder, meaning
that she was probably alive when

1534
01:29:29,850 --> 01:29:33,650
she was dumped from the car.
Just like Princess, she had been

1535
01:29:33,650 --> 01:29:34,770
strangled.
A.

1536
01:29:34,770 --> 01:29:38,090
Toxicology report revealed drugs
and alcohol in her system.

1537
01:29:38,530 --> 01:29:43,530
They swapped her for DNA.
Valerie was a drug addict.

1538
01:29:43,770 --> 01:29:44,850
Who lived on the street?
Where?

1539
01:29:44,850 --> 01:29:47,370
She died.
She'd been arrested six times in

1540
01:29:47,370 --> 01:29:49,090
the past.
She was connected to a pimp

1541
01:29:49,090 --> 01:29:51,250
named Nobles.
Nobles.

1542
01:29:51,250 --> 01:29:53,570
Got her pregnant.
And that actually ended up being

1543
01:29:53,570 --> 01:29:56,330
the thing that made Valerie want
to have a better life.

1544
01:29:57,250 --> 01:29:59,930
Her first child, Symphony, was
put up for adoption because she

1545
01:29:59,930 --> 01:30:02,890
was born with drugs in her
system, and her second child,

1546
01:30:03,170 --> 01:30:06,370
Matthew, was born October 29,
second 1989.

1547
01:30:06,900 --> 01:30:09,140
She tried her hardest to stay
clean.

1548
01:30:17,420 --> 01:30:18,940
And I think the interesting
thing is when.

1549
01:30:09,460 --> 01:30:12,820
She started working at a
facility to help other addicts.

1550
01:30:13,380 --> 01:30:20,100
So you know, but it just didn't.
She was clean, she.

1551
01:30:20,100 --> 01:30:24,660
Cut all of her ties with Nobles
and originally when Valerie went

1552
01:30:24,660 --> 01:30:31,180
missing, nobles daughter assumed
that her dad had killed Valerie.

1553
01:30:32,700 --> 01:30:34,900
Yeah, she was a teenager.
And was just like.

1554
01:30:35,210 --> 01:30:37,890
I.
Think my dad did it and believed

1555
01:30:37,890 --> 01:30:40,970
it for the next seven years
until was discovered that

1556
01:30:41,610 --> 01:30:46,730
Valerie was connected to the
Grim Sleeper now in late 2000.

1557
01:30:46,730 --> 01:30:49,290
1A Sex Crimes.
Detective named David Lampkin

1558
01:30:49,570 --> 01:30:52,170
pushed the LAPD to open up a
cold case unit.

1559
01:30:52,490 --> 01:30:55,330
Because of the improvements of
DNA evidence, they got

1560
01:30:55,410 --> 01:30:58,730
everything retested and that's
when the unit noticed that a lot

1561
01:30:58,770 --> 01:31:02,410
of evidence in these old cases
had just been thrown out.

1562
01:31:03,760 --> 01:31:06,760
And like, they're like, this is
gonna absolutely ruin how many

1563
01:31:06,760 --> 01:31:11,480
cases we can really solve but in
2000.

1564
01:31:12,160 --> 01:31:16,200
They got a hit related to a
woman named Paula Vance, and

1565
01:31:16,200 --> 01:31:18,840
that was the DNA of a man named.
Chester Turner.

1566
01:31:20,480 --> 01:31:22,800
And they were able to connect.
Chester Turner.

1567
01:31:23,120 --> 01:31:27,540
To 10 other murders.
That they had assumed was the

1568
01:31:27,540 --> 01:31:30,980
South Side Slayer.
They had now found a second

1569
01:31:31,260 --> 01:31:35,620
serial killer in South Central.
This was a major success and so

1570
01:31:35,620 --> 01:31:38,020
they started looking at other
cases and went well.

1571
01:31:38,020 --> 01:31:41,180
Who else can we look into?
The cool key students was like,

1572
01:31:41,180 --> 01:31:43,300
what about the 25 caliber
killings.

1573
01:31:44,340 --> 01:31:46,060
So they retested the bullets
they were.

1574
01:31:46,060 --> 01:31:49,500
Like, good.
All of these go to the same gun.

1575
01:31:50,270 --> 01:31:53,030
Unfortunately, they could only
submit three sets of DNA

1576
01:31:53,030 --> 01:31:56,630
evidence from the seven murders
before Mary Lowe, Bernita Sparks

1577
01:31:56,630 --> 01:32:00,470
and Barbara, where Deborah
Jackson and Monique were too

1578
01:32:00,470 --> 01:32:04,430
decomposed for a good sample and
Henrietta Wright's case file had

1579
01:32:04,430 --> 01:32:10,590
just been destroyed.
No clue why, just that it had

1580
01:32:10,590 --> 01:32:13,230
been.
Ten months later, December 9th,

1581
01:32:13,230 --> 01:32:18,110
2004, they get a match linking
Mary Lowe to Valerie.

1582
01:32:18,680 --> 01:32:23,640
Luis Mccorvey killed on July
11th, 2003 and now we're back in

1583
01:32:23,640 --> 01:32:25,400
business.
OK, we could connect.

1584
01:32:26,360 --> 01:32:28,240
Well, The thing is a lot of
those early murders.

1585
01:32:28,240 --> 01:32:32,200
Were connected via the.
And now we had a DNA connection

1586
01:32:32,240 --> 01:32:35,600
from the current murders to the
old ones that are all connected

1587
01:32:35,600 --> 01:32:36,920
via bullets.
Nice.

1588
01:32:36,960 --> 01:32:43,680
OK, they only have one problem.
This guy's DNA is not.

1589
01:32:43,680 --> 01:32:45,960
In the system.
What?

1590
01:32:46,840 --> 01:32:52,200
Somehow, magically, he.
Never done anything that meant

1591
01:32:52,200 --> 01:32:55,920
that he would get swab.
Swab, yeah.

1592
01:32:58,840 --> 01:33:01,560
Because you don't normally swab
DNA for somebody who steals.

1593
01:33:01,560 --> 01:33:03,760
A car or something random like
that.

1594
01:33:04,480 --> 01:33:09,880
I mean, OK, I guess.
Well, here's the thing in the

1595
01:33:09,880 --> 01:33:13,320
past now.
For felonies, they do swab

1596
01:33:13,320 --> 01:33:15,560
people, but that'll come.
Into play in the.

1597
01:33:16,510 --> 01:33:18,910
So since the evidence, they
realized that the killer's last

1598
01:33:18,910 --> 01:33:21,550
target had definitely been a
need for Washington before

1599
01:33:21,550 --> 01:33:23,590
Valerie McCormick.
Of course there are 1,000,000

1600
01:33:23,590 --> 01:33:25,470
questions as this guy gone to
jail.

1601
01:33:25,510 --> 01:33:28,590
The answer is yes, Serial
killers don't normally just stop

1602
01:33:29,430 --> 01:33:31,670
over the next two years.
They did look over the suspects

1603
01:33:31,670 --> 01:33:33,670
that they had in the past.
Donald Bertine.

1604
01:33:34,470 --> 01:33:37,190
He had been in prison since
1990, so it couldn't be him

1605
01:33:37,190 --> 01:33:40,430
killing.
Now they looked at Dennis

1606
01:33:40,430 --> 01:33:43,940
Pinckney, Jimmy Lewis.
They also tried to connect him

1607
01:33:43,940 --> 01:33:47,380
to the former LA County
Sheriff's Deputy Ricky Ross, who

1608
01:33:47,380 --> 01:33:50,180
also had a bunch of murders
under his belt.

1609
01:33:50,380 --> 01:33:54,340
But no, Ross had died June 2nd,
2003, five weeks before Valerie

1610
01:33:54,340 --> 01:33:57,620
was murdered.
Lewis wasn't in prison and

1611
01:33:57,620 --> 01:33:59,340
didn't have any DNA in the
database.

1612
01:33:59,660 --> 01:34:02,340
They actually followed him and
like stole a napkin out of his

1613
01:34:02,340 --> 01:34:05,100
trash can and test and but
ultimately on one of the

1614
01:34:05,100 --> 01:34:08,460
detectives knocked on his door.
He was just like this again.

1615
01:34:09,380 --> 01:34:12,300
Because remember I mentioned
that pinckney.

1616
01:34:12,700 --> 01:34:15,540
Was the informant.
And then she switched her story

1617
01:34:15,540 --> 01:34:20,260
and said it was Louis.
He was like, here, take my DNA.

1618
01:34:21,260 --> 01:34:24,900
He's ruled out as a suspect.
Handy had died in July of 1990,

1619
01:34:24,900 --> 01:34:28,700
so it couldn't be him now.
The cool case team was just

1620
01:34:28,740 --> 01:34:30,260
going to.
Continue working every angle.

1621
01:34:31,260 --> 01:34:32,540
And then the killer struck
again.

1622
01:34:33,100 --> 01:34:37,140
Her name was Janicea Peters, aka
Nicia, and she started life as

1623
01:34:37,180 --> 01:34:40,410
just a weird little kid.
Who would do things like cover

1624
01:34:40,410 --> 01:34:44,010
herself and Vaseline and crawl
around the room and warrant

1625
01:34:44,010 --> 01:34:47,690
people?
OK or.

1626
01:34:48,010 --> 01:34:49,930
She would.
Take off all the labels to all

1627
01:34:49,930 --> 01:34:53,250
the canned goods and leave them
for her mom.

1628
01:34:53,730 --> 01:34:54,730
And.
Just cackle.

1629
01:34:54,730 --> 01:34:57,050
Not that kind of kid.
Damn it this evil.

1630
01:34:59,370 --> 01:35:01,050
And she got.
She got into dance.

1631
01:35:01,050 --> 01:35:02,730
She.
Started a dance troupe with her

1632
01:35:02,730 --> 01:35:05,890
sisters.
Adult lessons proved to be sad

1633
01:35:05,890 --> 01:35:08,290
for her because three of her
friends were killed by drug

1634
01:35:08,290 --> 01:35:11,610
violence and teens.
She got pregnant at 19 and her.

1635
01:35:11,610 --> 01:35:14,690
Family was super.
Her mom and sister were there

1636
01:35:14,690 --> 01:35:17,170
when she gave birth.
Her sister even caught the cord.

1637
01:35:18,250 --> 01:35:21,090
Life is hard, but it's at least
bearable when you have someone

1638
01:35:21,090 --> 01:35:23,890
there with you.
Lucy was a good mom.

1639
01:35:24,170 --> 01:35:25,050
She ended up.
Going to the.

1640
01:35:25,090 --> 01:35:27,890
Inglewood Adult School.
When her son Justin was a year

1641
01:35:27,890 --> 01:35:31,850
old, she enrolled in classes at
Southwest College in LA College.

1642
01:35:32,280 --> 01:35:34,800
She wanted to be a computer
programmer or maybe a teacher.

1643
01:35:35,000 --> 01:35:38,760
Her mom, Laverne.
It was in college, though.

1644
01:35:38,760 --> 01:35:41,840
When she picked up a Coke.
Addiction and started getting a

1645
01:35:41,840 --> 01:35:45,160
rest of her solicitation.
She was in and out of jail from

1646
01:35:45,160 --> 01:35:49,000
not point forward her family
had.

1647
01:35:49,000 --> 01:35:52,120
To kind of separate themselves.
From her and it was late

1648
01:35:52,120 --> 01:35:56,760
December when Lisia called her
mom.

1649
01:35:57,080 --> 01:35:58,200
Excited.
She was like I.

1650
01:35:58,200 --> 01:36:01,120
Found a place.
Laverne and Necia had a

1651
01:36:01,120 --> 01:36:06,040
conversation about how she
wasn't going to return Justin to

1652
01:36:06,080 --> 01:36:10,280
Necia until she was really clean
and back on track.

1653
01:36:11,800 --> 01:36:14,280
Before Necia hung up.
She said to her mom.

1654
01:36:14,400 --> 01:36:18,160
Tell Justin I love him.
She was found on January 1st,

1655
01:36:18,160 --> 01:36:21,800
2:00. 1007 at 9:00.
AM by a homeless man who was

1656
01:36:21,800 --> 01:36:25,000
collecting recyclables.
Her body was inside of a black

1657
01:36:25,000 --> 01:36:27,640
trash pad covered in recycling
stuff.

1658
01:36:28,150 --> 01:36:30,950
That bag was under an old
Christmas tree and cardboard

1659
01:36:30,950 --> 01:36:38,590
boxes inside of a dumpster.
When the police got there, they

1660
01:36:38,590 --> 01:36:43,150
noticed the reason the homeless
man was like, I couldn't.

1661
01:36:33,670 --> 01:36:35,830
The killer had met for Anicia
not to be.

1662
01:36:43,150 --> 01:36:46,350
Get the bag open.
And they realized the reason why

1663
01:36:46,350 --> 01:36:48,470
was that it had been zip tied
shut.

1664
01:36:50,870 --> 01:36:53,230
She was taken to the county
corner immediately.

1665
01:36:53,830 --> 01:36:57,800
She had been shot in the back.
They determined that as soon as

1666
01:36:57,800 --> 01:36:58,640
the bullet.
Hit her.

1667
01:36:58,640 --> 01:37:00,040
She would have.
Been paralyzed.

1668
01:37:00,520 --> 01:37:02,520
Her left eye showed a partial
hemorrhage.

1669
01:37:03,040 --> 01:37:05,840
They couldn't figure out whether
her cause of death was the the

1670
01:37:05,840 --> 01:37:09,160
bullet or asphyxiation, but the
person that obviously tried to

1671
01:37:09,160 --> 01:37:12,880
strangle her necia had last
been.

1672
01:37:12,880 --> 01:37:16,440
Seen alive on New Year's Eve.
A couple of druggies and working

1673
01:37:16,440 --> 01:37:19,760
girls were all hanging.
Behind the Fairlane Motel until

1674
01:37:19,760 --> 01:37:22,680
midnight, another one of the
working women told the police

1675
01:37:22,680 --> 01:37:24,800
they saw her.
The area at 1:00 AM.

1676
01:37:26,920 --> 01:37:30,520
The police were definitely.
Right, the 20. 5 Caliber Killer

1677
01:37:30,520 --> 01:37:32,120
was back at it.
Again and.

1678
01:37:32,160 --> 01:37:38,320
Getting confident again now on.
April 27th, 2007, Cold case.

1679
01:37:38,320 --> 01:37:41,080
Detective Cliff Shepard got a
fax with another DNA hit.

1680
01:37:41,600 --> 01:37:45,400
Saliva found on the zip tie
matched Princess and Valerie and

1681
01:37:45,400 --> 01:37:48,560
now we have a confirmed 10
murders.

1682
01:37:49,800 --> 01:37:51,640
So they formed a task.
Force, they called.

1683
01:37:51,640 --> 01:37:53,200
It the 800.
Task Force.

1684
01:37:53,650 --> 01:37:57,130
Because of the number on their
office door, it was composed of

1685
01:37:57,130 --> 01:37:59,010
seven veteran police.
Officers who had.

1686
01:37:59,010 --> 01:38:03,330
A combined 100 years of
experience, Detective Coulter

1687
01:38:03,450 --> 01:38:05,130
Kill Coin.
Fallon and Shepherd.

1688
01:38:05,410 --> 01:38:08,850
Were all within five years of
retirement, and so they said

1689
01:38:08,850 --> 01:38:10,850
that was the deadline before.
We have.

1690
01:38:10,850 --> 01:38:13,010
To retire, we have to find this
guy.

1691
01:38:15,930 --> 01:38:17,690
Lonnie Franklin Jr.
Now back to. he did get.

1692
01:38:17,690 --> 01:38:21,170
Arrested again in 2003 for car
left and car theft and receiving

1693
01:38:21,170 --> 01:38:31,540
stolen property.
Sorry, April 2nd 2003 He was put

1694
01:38:31,540 --> 01:38:36,180
in jail for two. 170 days, but
again released for only 40% of

1695
01:38:36,180 --> 01:38:41,420
his sentence.
Him was that he kept going to

1696
01:38:41,420 --> 01:38:38,460
jail for 3-4 months at a time.
So the police went wrong.

1697
01:38:38,460 --> 01:38:45,220
Part of the reason why they did.
He kept a low profile from this

1698
01:38:45,220 --> 01:38:48,380
point forward.
The 800 tasks were spent.

1699
01:38:48,380 --> 01:38:51,860
Most of two. 1007 trying to
figure out the profile of the

1700
01:38:51,900 --> 01:38:54,300
killer.
Was this about a hatred of black

1701
01:38:54,300 --> 01:38:56,860
women, probably linked to a
mother?

1702
01:38:56,860 --> 01:39:00,540
Hatred like Ed Kemper?
A scorned lover like Bundy?

1703
01:39:00,700 --> 01:39:06,780
Sex addiction like Gary Ridgway?
I say possibly the gap.

1704
01:39:06,900 --> 01:39:08,860
In the kills was confusing for
them, but.

1705
01:39:08,860 --> 01:39:11,220
For one thing they were certain
about was he was gaining

1706
01:39:11,220 --> 01:39:13,220
confidence and he was definitely
going to do it again.

1707
01:39:13,970 --> 01:39:17,050
The task force pulled every
murder even closely resembling

1708
01:39:17,050 --> 01:39:20,290
it, even ones that had already
been.

1709
01:39:20,290 --> 01:39:25,850
Solved which was pulling. 150
cases over the last 20-3 years.

1710
01:39:26,250 --> 01:39:28,330
They looked for.
The anonymous tipster who had

1711
01:39:28,330 --> 01:39:30,850
called in of the different
tipsters who had called into

1712
01:39:30,850 --> 01:39:32,810
other bodies.
They even talked to the old

1713
01:39:32,810 --> 01:39:37,010
police informant, Shelley Brown.
Again, by spring of 2008 the

1714
01:39:37,010 --> 01:39:40,370
task force had run down a lot of
leads and they were really

1715
01:39:40,370 --> 01:39:42,410
struggling not to lose hope
themselves.

1716
01:39:43,830 --> 01:39:46,350
And then California approved.
A Very.

1717
01:39:46,350 --> 01:39:49,350
New and controversial forensic
tool.

1718
01:39:51,990 --> 01:39:55,950
What do you think that is right,
New and controversial?

1719
01:39:56,950 --> 01:39:58,390
It's the thing that I don't
like.

1720
01:39:58,710 --> 01:40:03,790
Is it?
It's that.

1721
01:40:03,790 --> 01:40:05,510
Thing.
Is that the is that thing?

1722
01:40:07,510 --> 01:40:10,470
Familial DNA testing.
Yes, that thing.

1723
01:40:10,470 --> 01:40:14,580
The thing with the 23 andme in
2008, this was very

1724
01:40:14,580 --> 01:40:16,020
controversial.
Because people like.

1725
01:40:16,020 --> 01:40:19,260
Me feel like we didn't give
permission for our DNA to enter

1726
01:40:19,260 --> 01:40:21,900
a federal database, but the
Governor of California at the

1727
01:40:21,900 --> 01:40:24,260
time, Jerry Browns did.
The benefit of doing this and

1728
01:40:24,260 --> 01:40:27,620
potentially catching murderers
outweighed the ethical quandary.

1729
01:40:27,980 --> 01:40:30,500
And if you aren't well versed
listeners as far as the volume

1730
01:40:30,500 --> 01:40:32,620
of serial killers.
I said this before, but I have

1731
01:40:32,620 --> 01:40:35,420
the exact number now.
California beats out every other

1732
01:40:35,420 --> 01:40:39,980
state with 1628 serial killers
to compare.

1733
01:40:40,250 --> 01:40:45,050
The entire United States has
3204 serial pillows.

1734
01:40:45,770 --> 01:40:50,370
They were desperate.
So about half, half of them

1735
01:40:50,370 --> 01:40:52,130
have.
Taken place in California.

1736
01:40:54,170 --> 01:40:56,890
Now with the familial DNA being
allowed to check get checked.

1737
01:40:56,890 --> 01:40:59,650
In 2008, they decided that you
didn't get a free run of

1738
01:40:59,650 --> 01:41:02,810
everybody's DNA and the way to
make people happy was to say

1739
01:41:02,810 --> 01:41:04,730
that this case had to be
submitted to the state.

1740
01:41:05,100 --> 01:41:07,900
And you had to prove that you
had done absolutely everything

1741
01:41:07,900 --> 01:41:11,460
else you could do in your power
to find this killer before we

1742
01:41:11,460 --> 01:41:15,620
allowed you access to this DNA
database that at the time had

1743
01:41:15,620 --> 01:41:16,940
only about a million people in
it.

1744
01:41:18,220 --> 01:41:19,660
That way they could tell the
other.

1745
01:41:19,660 --> 01:41:22,860
Organizations concern with.
Civilian privacy that you know

1746
01:41:22,860 --> 01:41:25,460
every time Dick and Harry isn't
about to get access to all these

1747
01:41:25,460 --> 01:41:28,640
people.
Now Coulter shepherd and kill

1748
01:41:28,640 --> 01:41:30,000
coin.
Had to actually fly to.

1749
01:41:30,000 --> 01:41:33,160
Sacramento and meet with the
Bureau Chief of the California

1750
01:41:33,160 --> 01:41:36,280
Department of Justice, Jill
Spriggs to plead their case.

1751
01:41:36,680 --> 01:41:39,680
The major point being that this
killer had destroyed lives for

1752
01:41:39,680 --> 01:41:42,440
over 20 years.
He's actively killing again and

1753
01:41:42,440 --> 01:41:45,760
they had done everything else
other than just wait for him to

1754
01:41:45,760 --> 01:41:49,000
do it again.
They did get approved, but the

1755
01:41:49,000 --> 01:41:50,200
next delay?
Was the fact.

1756
01:41:50,200 --> 01:41:55,360
That they need to prepare a
special software to figure out

1757
01:41:55,480 --> 01:41:58,860
how to do it.
The Texas Rd. stands to.

1758
01:41:58,860 --> 01:42:03,660
Look at in the meantime.
Christine Pelisek pretty much

1759
01:42:03,740 --> 01:42:06,820
harassed Detective Shepherd
until he told her that there had

1760
01:42:06,820 --> 01:42:10,540
been a third, a tenth murder.
She ended up meeting with Kilcoy

1761
01:42:10,620 --> 01:42:13,340
and told him she intended to
write an entire article about

1762
01:42:13,340 --> 01:42:17,060
Janisia Peters and the secret
task force, and then she started

1763
01:42:17,060 --> 01:42:18,420
tracking on the victim's
families.

1764
01:42:18,980 --> 01:42:22,940
That article was the one where
she named him The Grim Sleeper

1765
01:42:23,140 --> 01:42:25,620
and ultimately morphed into the
book.

1766
01:42:26,140 --> 01:42:28,700
That I use as a main resource.
And actually after.

1767
01:42:28,700 --> 01:42:30,740
He died.
She was also the person to

1768
01:42:30,740 --> 01:42:34,340
report on that as well.
Like Prestige just was the

1769
01:42:34,340 --> 01:42:37,820
person who followed this case
from 2000.

1770
01:42:38,260 --> 01:42:40,060
So it's completion.
I haven't.

1771
01:42:40,340 --> 01:42:46,580
I have a I'm iffy about
reporters, like sometimes, and

1772
01:42:46,580 --> 01:42:49,060
rules seem to be doing pretty
good, yeah.

1773
01:42:49,060 --> 01:42:52,100
I mean, you know, sometimes they
have, sometimes they, they are

1774
01:42:52,100 --> 01:42:57,280
just in the fucking way.
That's true, but like I said.

1775
01:42:57,320 --> 01:42:59,080
I'm in the beginning.
Christine is the.

1776
01:42:59,080 --> 01:43:02,040
One who named him the Grim
Sleeper and the name hit a nerve

1777
01:43:02,080 --> 01:43:05,800
in LA and across America, and
it's stuck once that article

1778
01:43:05,800 --> 01:43:07,240
exploded.
And people.

1779
01:43:07,240 --> 01:43:08,760
Knew that.
Christine was working with the

1780
01:43:08,800 --> 01:43:11,920
LAPD.
They started contacting her and

1781
01:43:11,920 --> 01:43:16,160
they were like, I am sure that
my coworker or my husband is the

1782
01:43:16,160 --> 01:43:19,160
Grim Sleeper.
And so Christine was like, get a

1783
01:43:19,160 --> 01:43:23,640
DNA sample, I'll pass it along.
So she did that.

1784
01:43:24,050 --> 01:43:26,330
And so they were like.
We don't have anything else we

1785
01:43:26,330 --> 01:43:28,730
can do right now, so we might as
well test these people.

1786
01:43:31,730 --> 01:43:34,410
Psychics and mediums called her
two then.

1787
01:43:34,410 --> 01:43:38,050
Christine got a weird letter
that had eight photos of a black

1788
01:43:38,050 --> 01:43:40,250
man having sex with different
black women.

1789
01:43:41,450 --> 01:43:43,410
She passed this weird letter
along to.

1790
01:43:43,410 --> 01:43:47,370
The task force.
I personally think that Lonnie.

1791
01:43:47,450 --> 01:43:48,170
That was him.
He.

1792
01:43:48,170 --> 01:43:50,330
Contacted her.
He was like, Oh yeah, you could

1793
01:43:50,330 --> 01:43:52,890
give me a name.
Here's a photo of some of the

1794
01:43:52,890 --> 01:43:58,490
stuff that I did.
God now, December 2nd. 2008 The

1795
01:43:58,490 --> 01:44:01,810
familia DNA.
Tool came back blank with a grim

1796
01:44:01,810 --> 01:44:05,410
sleeper.
They waited for so long and.

1797
01:44:05,410 --> 01:44:08,130
It failed.
So Christine focused next on

1798
01:44:08,130 --> 01:44:11,530
telling a Nitra.
Originally, Anitra was less than

1799
01:44:11,530 --> 01:44:15,010
willing to talk to anybody
because she had been ignored for

1800
01:44:15,010 --> 01:44:19,130
over a decade.
She's a very like.

1801
01:44:21,670 --> 01:44:24,310
Blunt.
To the point, kind of woman.

1802
01:44:24,870 --> 01:44:30,550
And Christine earned her trust
by just coming and being around

1803
01:44:30,550 --> 01:44:32,030
her and seeing her in the.
Community.

1804
01:44:33,070 --> 01:44:35,070
Christine also learned a lot
about the meeting.

1805
01:44:35,070 --> 01:44:37,550
From Anitra.
Like Anitra was pretty sure that

1806
01:44:37,550 --> 01:44:39,750
the man who had raped and shot
her.

1807
01:44:40,010 --> 01:44:42,290
Stalked her for years after the
attack.

1808
01:44:42,970 --> 01:44:45,970
She said that she would be
taking a bus and she would see

1809
01:44:45,970 --> 01:44:49,970
this one guy just watching her.
She got phone calls in the

1810
01:44:49,970 --> 01:44:53,530
middle of the night, like he was
keeping track of her.

1811
01:44:53,690 --> 01:44:56,130
One day he even.
Walked up to her and was like,

1812
01:44:56,130 --> 01:44:57,650
do you know me?
Oh no.

1813
01:44:57,650 --> 01:45:01,170
And in each and Anitra was like,
am I supposed to?

1814
01:45:02,930 --> 01:45:05,050
After that, he stopped.
Following her but it.

1815
01:45:05,050 --> 01:45:08,250
Occurred to her later.
Holy crap, that's him.

1816
01:45:10,580 --> 01:45:12,780
The task force.
Manages to get the state to put

1817
01:45:12,780 --> 01:45:16,620
up A5. $100,000 reward in
February of 2009.

1818
01:45:17,660 --> 01:45:20,460
They just wanted the world to.
Pay attention.

1819
01:45:20,460 --> 01:45:23,500
To this serial killer they
released all the composite

1820
01:45:23,500 --> 01:45:27,340
sketches again, one from
beginning and then one showing

1821
01:45:27,340 --> 01:45:32,580
like a five year age and a 10
year age kill coin actually.

1822
01:45:32,580 --> 01:45:35,620
Released the 9/1.
One call reporting Barbara

1823
01:45:35,620 --> 01:45:39,350
Ware's body dump to the media.
The police chief asked for

1824
01:45:39,350 --> 01:45:43,430
public help and solving the only
still outstanding serial

1825
01:45:43,430 --> 01:45:47,870
murderer working in the city
currently that actually did

1826
01:45:47,870 --> 01:45:50,870
backfire on Phil Coin.
They didn't know that Barbara

1827
01:45:50,870 --> 01:45:54,790
Ware had any relatives and her
stepmother was still alive.

1828
01:45:54,990 --> 01:45:59,070
And she was real mad to turn on
the news and see her daughter's

1829
01:45:59,070 --> 01:46:06,310
picture and hear that 911 call.
Suddenly they had 100 new tips

1830
01:46:06,310 --> 01:46:08,360
though.
Many were bad leads, or just

1831
01:46:08,360 --> 01:46:21,400
dead ends.
Force They were only given one

1832
01:46:21,400 --> 01:46:25,600
police vehicle was just Dennis
Kilcoyne, Cliff Shepherd.

1833
01:46:09,600 --> 01:46:13,760
By 2010, the task force was down
to four people, just the old

1834
01:46:13,760 --> 01:46:15,280
timers.
The other three had been

1835
01:46:15,280 --> 01:46:18,800
reassigned.
All overtime hours were cut on

1836
01:46:18,840 --> 01:46:27,240
the.
Fallon and Paul Coulter.

1837
01:46:27,680 --> 01:46:31,800
And then in March of 2010, Jill
Spriggs called them and went.

1838
01:46:32,560 --> 01:46:33,760
Why don't you?
Try it again.

1839
01:46:34,080 --> 01:46:38,410
The database is bigger now.
So they tried one more.

1840
01:46:38,410 --> 01:46:41,970
Time The second familial.
Search request was submitted on

1841
01:46:41,970 --> 01:46:46,770
March 31st, 2010.
On June 30th, Dennis.

1842
01:46:46,770 --> 01:46:49,290
Kilcoyne got a.
Call from Scriggs about

1843
01:46:49,290 --> 01:46:51,490
canceling a breakfast that they
had planned.

1844
01:46:52,050 --> 01:46:54,370
She usually had to come into
town once a month to do a

1845
01:46:54,370 --> 01:46:58,010
meeting with law enforcement,
and so the following day she

1846
01:46:58,010 --> 01:47:01,380
would have brunch with them.
The call was actually kind of

1847
01:47:01,380 --> 01:47:02,660
cute.
Spriggs was like.

1848
01:47:02,820 --> 01:47:04,300
Don't.
You want to know why I have to

1849
01:47:04,300 --> 01:47:07,780
cancel breakfast and kill Coin?
And kill Coin was like, you're

1850
01:47:07,780 --> 01:47:11,580
in charge of 13 evidence labs.
You're busy and she was like,

1851
01:47:11,580 --> 01:47:13,780
you need to sit down.
And he was, she's like, are you

1852
01:47:13,780 --> 01:47:15,020
sitting down?
And he's like, no.

1853
01:47:15,020 --> 01:47:18,940
And she's like, you need to and
she's like, I have to go to LA.

1854
01:47:18,980 --> 01:47:20,820
For something related to.
The Grim Sleeper.

1855
01:47:21,340 --> 01:47:24,260
And I can't say why she's like,
but I need you to pick me up

1856
01:47:24,260 --> 01:47:26,260
from the airport and call a
meeting.

1857
01:47:27,830 --> 01:47:30,070
The following day at.
That meeting, Springs.

1858
01:47:30,070 --> 01:47:32,110
Got right to the.
Point There were five close

1859
01:47:32,110 --> 01:47:37,070
matches and one perfect match.
That perfect match was 28 year

1860
01:47:37,070 --> 01:47:42,390
old Christopher John Franklin,
the son of Lonnie Franklin Jr.

1861
01:47:43,470 --> 01:47:46,150
He had been swapped the.
Summer of 2009.

1862
01:47:46,190 --> 01:47:51,110
After pleading guilty to a
felony weapons charge, there

1863
01:47:51,110 --> 01:47:53,550
were only two.
Possibilities for a.

1864
01:47:53,550 --> 01:47:56,750
Relative of Christopher and
uncle in Riverside.

1865
01:47:57,160 --> 01:47:59,200
And Lonnie Franklin Jr. his
father.

1866
01:48:00,440 --> 01:48:01,920
They looked at everything they
could about.

1867
01:48:01,920 --> 01:48:05,680
Lonnie They went undercover.
Starting July 2nd, 2010, trying

1868
01:48:05,680 --> 01:48:08,520
to grab any item that he could
possibly leave behind that

1869
01:48:08,520 --> 01:48:11,160
showed DNA on it.
They watched him go out and try

1870
01:48:11,160 --> 01:48:13,520
and pick up prostitutes.
They watched him meet a

1871
01:48:13,520 --> 01:48:15,360
girlfriend, stay the night at
her house.

1872
01:48:15,680 --> 01:48:18,080
And then on July 5th they got a
great opportunity.

1873
01:48:18,440 --> 01:48:21,840
They saw that Lonnie and Sony's
daughter like he picked Lonnie,

1874
01:48:21,840 --> 01:48:24,560
picked up Sony's daughter and a
bunch of other little girls and

1875
01:48:24,560 --> 01:48:28,380
went to a pizza parlor.
And the cops actually went into

1876
01:48:28,380 --> 01:48:34,460
the restaurant and said we need
to have one of your employees

1877
01:48:34,460 --> 01:48:38,900
step down and then we're gonna
insert an officer to pretend to

1878
01:48:38,900 --> 01:48:40,860
be an employee.
I'll step down.

1879
01:48:40,940 --> 01:48:42,500
I need a break.
Let's go.

1880
01:48:45,460 --> 01:48:48,900
So the the cop went in the back,
put on the, put on the uniform

1881
01:48:49,340 --> 01:48:53,560
and that allowed them to take.
All of the garbage that he

1882
01:48:53,560 --> 01:48:57,160
physically saw Lonnie eat from
like half of a piece of

1883
01:48:57,160 --> 01:49:00,280
chocolate cake.
All of his stuff was put in a

1884
01:49:00,280 --> 01:49:03,600
separate bag from the rest of
the table and take it in for

1885
01:49:03,600 --> 01:49:05,560
testing.
It took Why?

1886
01:49:05,720 --> 01:49:08,320
They said it would take one day
to create a DNA profile for

1887
01:49:08,320 --> 01:49:10,360
Lonnie.
That was a lie.

1888
01:49:10,560 --> 01:49:13,800
It was a holiday weekend, so it
didn't come until July 7th.

1889
01:49:14,080 --> 01:49:20,400
It was the 4th of July weekend,
but at 6:40. 5:00 AM, Kill Coin.

1890
01:49:20,400 --> 01:49:24,300
Got a text?
That just said, positive results

1891
01:49:26,060 --> 01:49:28,700
that allowed them to bring.
In Lonnie and get a warrant to.

1892
01:49:28,700 --> 01:49:31,420
Such his house.
I'm gonna spare you the annoying

1893
01:49:31,420 --> 01:49:34,060
details of the transcripts of
his investigation.

1894
01:49:34,180 --> 01:49:37,500
Interrogation.
He lied the whole time, of

1895
01:49:37,500 --> 01:49:40,060
course.
Swore up and down.

1896
01:49:40,060 --> 01:49:43,300
He never saw any of these.
Women, even when they told him

1897
01:49:43,300 --> 01:49:45,740
that they saw him cruising for
prostitutes and they had been

1898
01:49:45,740 --> 01:49:47,940
watching him for like a week, he
was like, I don't know what

1899
01:49:47,940 --> 01:49:51,100
you're talking about.
We think you, we think I'm not

1900
01:49:51,100 --> 01:49:54,580
cheating on my wife.
OK Sir, we sell.

1901
01:49:54,580 --> 01:49:56,900
They were like, we have your
DNA.

1902
01:49:57,060 --> 01:49:59,660
Your.
DNA is connected to like 5

1903
01:49:59,740 --> 01:50:01,980
murders.
He was like, I don't know what

1904
01:50:01,980 --> 01:50:03,940
you're talking about.
He was like pointing at the

1905
01:50:03,940 --> 01:50:07,740
pictures of the victims laughing
like haha, what do you mean?

1906
01:50:08,740 --> 01:50:13,020
That's just terrible while this
super frustrating interview is

1907
01:50:13,020 --> 01:50:15,820
going on.
They go to the house, they find

1908
01:50:15,860 --> 01:50:21,150
1000 photos, several 100.
Hours of videos of him having

1909
01:50:21,150 --> 01:50:24,230
sex with other women hand in the
garage.

1910
01:50:24,230 --> 01:50:26,270
The camper.
The police ended up releasing.

1911
01:50:26,350 --> 01:50:31,230
180 pictures of like women's
faces just to be like, hey, if

1912
01:50:31,230 --> 01:50:32,590
this is you, can you let us
know?

1913
01:50:32,710 --> 01:50:36,430
You're like alive because we
don't know where 108 these

1914
01:50:36,430 --> 01:50:39,190
hundred. 80 people.
Are we've tried to find them?

1915
01:50:41,500 --> 01:50:43,340
Simply the grim.
They're like, listen, the.

1916
01:50:43,340 --> 01:50:45,380
Grim Sleeper had your.
Picture in his house and we

1917
01:50:45,380 --> 01:50:48,220
don't know why, but please
contact us if you know any of

1918
01:50:48,220 --> 01:50:52,540
these women are he was
officially charged in two. 10

1919
01:50:52,540 --> 01:50:56,380
But there was a.
Very long road to trial at one

1920
01:50:56,380 --> 01:50:58,220
point in 2011.
They did.

1921
01:50:58,780 --> 01:51:01,820
Find 5 more people from those
pictures.

1922
01:51:02,060 --> 01:51:05,620
And a.
Man who they believed may have

1923
01:51:05,620 --> 01:51:07,620
known one of the victims, which
is why he was murdered.

1924
01:51:09,330 --> 01:51:13,770
The trial was pushed.
Off until February 16th. 2016 Oh

1925
01:51:13,810 --> 01:51:17,890
my God, this is partially
because of pretrial.

1926
01:51:17,890 --> 01:51:22,290
Discovery and having to sift
through hundreds of hours of

1927
01:51:22,290 --> 01:51:25,770
video 1000.
Many of the young women on the

1928
01:51:25,770 --> 01:51:28,690
tapes were underage at the time.
There was a decision about

1929
01:51:29,370 --> 01:51:32,490
should they pursue these as
child pornography charges if the

1930
01:51:32,490 --> 01:51:36,210
statue of limitations covered
the potential rape charges.

1931
01:51:38,160 --> 01:51:40,560
Just like with Richard.
Ramirez they chose.

1932
01:51:40,560 --> 01:51:42,920
To focus on the murders because
they thought that would be an

1933
01:51:43,120 --> 01:51:46,760
easier conviction and it would
take longer to put him in prison

1934
01:51:46,960 --> 01:51:49,760
to bring in more charges against
him.

1935
01:51:49,800 --> 01:51:53,480
Yeah, yeah, I get.
That Lonnie brought in a.

1936
01:51:54,440 --> 01:51:57,240
Powerhouse of.
A law team led by a man named

1937
01:51:57,240 --> 01:52:02,200
Seymour Amster, who wasted time
by demanding that things be

1938
01:52:02,200 --> 01:52:05,280
tested and retested to his
liking.

1939
01:52:06,480 --> 01:52:10,800
Also, Amster was waiting until
the last possible moment.

1940
01:52:10,800 --> 01:52:13,760
To send.
Over their discovery in a timely

1941
01:52:13,760 --> 01:52:18,000
manner and waiting until the
last possible moment to return

1942
01:52:18,000 --> 01:52:21,680
the review on the discovery from
the prosecution, it was

1943
01:52:21,680 --> 01:52:25,280
clusterfuck at trial things a
little more.

1944
01:52:25,280 --> 01:52:27,960
Subdued the defense.
Led with photos of all the

1945
01:52:27,960 --> 01:52:31,440
victims and all the horrible
things that he did, what was

1946
01:52:31,440 --> 01:52:34,480
actually the most damning was
that interrogation.

1947
01:52:35,150 --> 01:52:37,350
He had been making jokes, those
jokes.

1948
01:52:37,350 --> 01:52:38,990
As the.
Detectives showed the victims

1949
01:52:39,310 --> 01:52:41,270
and trying to show like, this is
crazy.

1950
01:52:41,270 --> 01:52:44,830
What are you talking about?
But in the courtroom, that video

1951
01:52:44,830 --> 01:52:46,830
made it seem like he just didn't
care.

1952
01:52:46,830 --> 01:52:51,070
Yeah, that's what it sounded
like all the way to the end.

1953
01:52:51,070 --> 01:52:52,990
He never.
Took responsibility.

1954
01:52:53,230 --> 01:52:56,230
Closing arguments were May 2nd.
The jury deliberated from May

1955
01:52:56,230 --> 01:52:59,630
4th to May 5th and came back
conviction on all counts.

1956
01:52:59,910 --> 01:53:03,070
He was sentenced on May 12th.
And it was there that they

1957
01:53:03,070 --> 01:53:06,150
showcased the six other people
that they had connected to him.

1958
01:53:06,870 --> 01:53:10,830
That was Sharon Alicia Disbeck,
January 15th, 1984, believed to

1959
01:53:10,830 --> 01:53:15,910
be his first victim, Thomas
Sylvester Steels.

1960
01:53:15,950 --> 01:53:17,190
That was the man that they think
was.

1961
01:53:17,190 --> 01:53:22,830
Connected to the other victims
August 14th 1986 he died and as

1962
01:53:22,830 --> 01:53:28,190
Elizabeth Warren, August 15th
1988, she was not originally

1963
01:53:28,190 --> 01:53:29,550
considered a grim sleeper
victim.

1964
01:53:30,830 --> 01:53:34,950
But her death matched his Emma
was the same for Georgia May

1965
01:53:34,950 --> 01:53:39,870
Thomas. 28th 2000 Ayella
Marshall.

1966
01:53:40,190 --> 01:53:43,550
Her remains.
Were never found but her school

1967
01:53:43,550 --> 01:53:46,190
ID card.
Was.

1968
01:53:46,190 --> 01:53:48,630
Found in.
His garage.

1969
01:53:48,950 --> 01:53:51,270
And that was where he kept his
trophies.

1970
01:53:51,710 --> 01:53:56,310
Ayella was 18, Relenia Morris.
She was also never found.

1971
01:53:56,890 --> 01:54:00,050
Her driver's license and several
explicit photos were found in

1972
01:54:00,050 --> 01:54:06,770
his garage and Anita Washington.
To Lonnie at his sentencing,

1973
01:54:07,330 --> 01:54:10,170
finally getting the moment to
speak her peace and get some

1974
01:54:10,170 --> 01:54:14,130
closure on this man who raped
her, tried to kill her and

1975
01:54:14,130 --> 01:54:17,810
scalped her.
And then on June?

1976
01:54:17,810 --> 01:54:20,930
Six 2016 Lonnie.
Franklin Jr. was sentenced to

1977
01:54:20,930 --> 01:54:25,450
death and then the Superior
Court affirmed it on August 10.

1978
01:54:26,750 --> 01:54:28,350
Lonnie will be executed for the
murders.

1979
01:54:28,350 --> 01:54:30,830
Of Deborah Jackson.
Henrietta Wright, Barbara Ware,

1980
01:54:30,830 --> 01:54:34,510
Bernita Sparks, Mary Lowe,
Lacretia Jefferson, Alicia

1981
01:54:34,510 --> 01:54:38,550
Alexander, Princess Barthomio,
Valerie Mccorvey, and Janisha

1982
01:54:38,550 --> 01:54:44,830
Peters.
Unfortunately, he never saw.

1983
01:54:45,070 --> 01:54:48,590
His execution date on March
28th, 20.

1984
01:54:49,510 --> 01:54:52,470
Lonnie was found dead in his
cell at 67 years old.

1985
01:54:52,980 --> 01:54:55,340
Natural causes, OK, I was about
to say.

1986
01:54:55,380 --> 01:54:59,660
God 10 or Brittany.
He didn't deserve to die

1987
01:54:59,660 --> 01:55:00,740
peacefully.
He did.

1988
01:55:00,900 --> 01:55:05,060
But, but in the words of.
Barbara Where stepmother Diana?

1989
01:55:05,820 --> 01:55:08,340
Diane I won't.
Say I'm.

1990
01:55:08,340 --> 01:55:10,260
Pleased he died.
But at the.

1991
01:55:10,300 --> 01:55:12,900
End there was justice for all
the bad things he did in his

1992
01:55:12,900 --> 01:55:21,070
life.
We can now be at peace, I guess.

1993
01:55:21,070 --> 01:55:23,590
That was frustrating.
I know, a tough one.

1994
01:55:26,830 --> 01:55:32,670
So imagine.
Imagine if Ramirez was around

1995
01:55:32,670 --> 01:55:38,070
for as long as this guy was.
He never got called.

1996
01:55:38,950 --> 01:55:41,830
Well, there is a belief I.
Don't know if you remember.

1997
01:55:41,830 --> 01:55:46,270
This from the documentary but
his first.

1998
01:55:46,270 --> 01:55:50,340
Murder was a child.
At a hotel that he was staying

1999
01:55:50,340 --> 01:55:55,380
at right like a big chunk of.
Time before.

2000
01:55:55,380 --> 01:55:59,580
He started killing people in the
suburbs, and because of how

2001
01:55:59,580 --> 01:56:04,180
frequent his attacks were, a lot
of people don't believe that he

2002
01:56:04,180 --> 01:56:06,060
just stopped between those two
times.

2003
01:56:07,140 --> 01:56:11,980
Also, if you remember, he
taunted the police in another

2004
01:56:11,980 --> 01:56:15,380
city.
Yeah, remember.

2005
01:56:16,020 --> 01:56:18,710
I think that was like.
Of a city that was further north

2006
01:56:18,710 --> 01:56:21,350
of LA.
And he was just like, hey, you

2007
01:56:21,350 --> 01:56:22,870
should look into those old
ladies.

2008
01:56:23,550 --> 01:56:25,790
And he pretty much told those
police officers that he had

2009
01:56:25,790 --> 01:56:29,110
killed in their region.
So it's believable?

2010
01:56:29,910 --> 01:56:31,590
Yeah, So it's believable that
he.

2011
01:56:31,630 --> 01:56:35,190
Absolutely.
Probably continued killing it

2012
01:56:35,190 --> 01:56:36,110
was.
Only.

2013
01:56:36,150 --> 01:56:38,630
And I hate to say it this way,
but it was only when he started

2014
01:56:38,630 --> 01:56:41,670
killing wealthy people from the
middle class or upper class that

2015
01:56:41,670 --> 01:56:43,470
people gave a shit about who he
was.

2016
01:56:43,470 --> 01:56:46,930
Taken out, I mean.
Remember the Cecil Hotel

2017
01:56:46,930 --> 01:56:48,530
documentary?
Yeah, he was.

2018
01:56:48,610 --> 01:56:53,330
They said that he would just
show up covered in blood.

2019
01:56:53,610 --> 01:56:55,210
Take.
Off his clothes in the back.

2020
01:56:55,210 --> 01:56:58,890
Alley and walk upstairs covered
in blood, just in his underwear,

2021
01:56:59,490 --> 01:57:02,650
like he was obviously doing
something during that time.

2022
01:57:02,690 --> 01:57:07,530
Yeah, we just don't know what.
I'm just like, but what?

2023
01:57:07,530 --> 01:57:12,290
If it What if it had, like just
spanned until like, the 2000s?

2024
01:57:13,630 --> 01:57:17,150
She's.
Like, Oh my God.

2025
01:57:17,990 --> 01:57:22,910
That's why like, after use, like
at after all this time and I'm

2026
01:57:22,910 --> 01:57:25,830
thinking about like Lonnie and
just all this stuff and it was

2027
01:57:25,830 --> 01:57:30,150
like, wow, so this just kept
going and going and going.

2028
01:57:39,910 --> 01:57:33,110
If I have to cover.
Like if Ramirez had not been

2029
01:57:33,110 --> 01:57:36,590
called when he did, like when he
was called like this were just

2030
01:57:36,590 --> 01:57:38,350
good.
There's another one that's been

2031
01:57:38,350 --> 01:57:44,380
requested, but I don't.
The very, very, very long

2032
01:57:44,380 --> 01:57:47,020
history of the Golden State
killer he was in.

2033
01:57:47,060 --> 01:57:50,580
He was another one who familial
DNA was necessary.

2034
01:57:50,940 --> 01:57:54,300
That might be a.
Two or three-part, Yeah.

2035
01:57:54,620 --> 01:57:56,420
He has a long.
History of being.

2036
01:57:56,420 --> 01:58:03,460
A burglar, then a rapist, then a
killer. 3 different ages of

2037
01:58:03,460 --> 01:58:08,900
crime terrorizing LA.
I am done for today.

2038
01:58:08,900 --> 01:58:10,340
I know this.
One went long.

2039
01:58:12,430 --> 01:58:14,470
It is.
One of our yeah I think it is

2040
01:58:14,470 --> 01:58:16,510
going to be one of our the
longest one now.

2041
01:58:17,350 --> 01:58:19,630
Yeah, sorry you all.
It's just.

2042
01:58:20,350 --> 01:58:23,390
I get in a vibe and I can't
stop.

2043
01:58:23,950 --> 01:58:29,510
I need an editor.
Me.

2044
01:58:29,510 --> 01:58:42,240
I think I edit myself too much.
OK, Brittany, what if, What if?

2045
01:58:42,920 --> 01:58:49,080
Lonnie was ending in the New
York area, Okay, and there was a

2046
01:58:49,080 --> 01:58:59,800
service that I don't know, say
cater to criminals and people

2047
01:58:59,880 --> 01:59:04,960
who had done wrong in their
lives and just cater to them so

2048
01:59:04,960 --> 01:59:08,320
they can just, you know, get off
of their chest what they had

2049
01:59:08,320 --> 01:59:15,780
done.
Now this one, it's a request,

2050
01:59:16,860 --> 01:59:18,260
OK?
It's from Tara.

2051
01:59:19,940 --> 01:59:22,180
She requested for for.
Folks who don't.

2052
01:59:22,180 --> 01:59:26,820
Know that's the wife.
Yeah, so it's it's it's, you

2053
01:59:26,820 --> 01:59:29,180
know, when your wife asks you to
cover?

2054
01:59:29,260 --> 01:59:34,460
Something you do it because
you're being nice to her and

2055
01:59:34,460 --> 01:59:36,660
she's like.
She's been asking for for me to

2056
01:59:36,660 --> 01:59:41,000
do something like this is not
like under my wheelhouse because

2057
01:59:41,080 --> 01:59:43,440
I talk about paranormal and and
other stuff.

2058
01:59:43,440 --> 01:59:45,280
She's like, but you talk about
interesting things too.

2059
01:59:45,280 --> 01:59:49,240
I'm like, yeah, but yeah, I
mean, you have been getting a

2060
01:59:49,240 --> 01:59:51,880
little away.
From the cryptic world lately.

2061
01:59:52,360 --> 01:59:56,160
I mean last week was you just
talking about weird stuff in in

2062
01:59:56,600 --> 02:00:01,320
the SO.
I mean their space, OK?

2063
02:00:01,360 --> 02:00:02,840
And listen the people who like
you.

2064
02:00:02,840 --> 02:00:05,710
Just like hearing you.
And apparently looking at your

2065
02:00:05,710 --> 02:00:08,630
face which they did not realize
you were attractive person until

2066
02:00:08,630 --> 02:00:12,110
recently because there have
people have been lusting.

2067
02:00:12,110 --> 02:00:15,950
After you on the.
Discord, you didn't see that?

2068
02:00:16,230 --> 02:00:18,230
Oh my goodness, I.
Thought it was.

2069
02:00:18,710 --> 02:00:22,390
I was like, you got a fan
anyway?

2070
02:00:26,510 --> 02:00:28,390
I'm watching him just blush
right now.

2071
02:00:28,390 --> 02:00:30,760
Y'all.
Anyway.

2072
02:00:37,200 --> 02:00:42,280
Today, today I'll be talking
about.

2073
02:00:43,840 --> 02:00:46,480
Tell me you've heard about this.
The apology.

2074
02:00:51,120 --> 02:00:53,760
Silence.
Your silence speaks magnitudes.

2075
02:00:53,760 --> 02:00:56,440
I'm listening.
Have you heard of the apology

2076
02:00:56,440 --> 02:00:59,340
line before?
You've not Wow.

2077
02:00:59,980 --> 02:01:01,860
Okay.
I don't know what that is at

2078
02:01:02,100 --> 02:01:03,060
all.
Okay.

2079
02:01:03,300 --> 02:01:07,620
So the apology line.
Is Okay.

2080
02:01:07,620 --> 02:01:12,780
So it started out in the 80s and
it is.

2081
02:01:12,940 --> 02:01:18,980
It was basically a line that you
would call.

2082
02:01:18,980 --> 02:01:22,940
From the pay phone.
And say if you were a criminal.

2083
02:01:23,620 --> 02:01:26,300
Or.
You had done something wrong, or

2084
02:01:26,300 --> 02:01:29,020
you had something that you
needed to get off your chest or

2085
02:01:29,020 --> 02:01:32,180
you like, whatever.
What?

2086
02:01:32,260 --> 02:01:34,100
There was this.
I'm not this.

2087
02:01:34,100 --> 02:01:36,220
Is the thing.
When was this?

2088
02:01:36,900 --> 02:01:39,500
Well, OK, so the the.
Actual line started.

2089
02:01:39,500 --> 02:01:45,660
In the 1980s and here let.
Me read this.

2090
02:01:47,060 --> 02:01:50,340
Read the flyer for you.
OK, hold on SEC.

2091
02:01:50,540 --> 02:01:52,740
Let me pull it up.
Let me pull it up.

2092
02:01:56,110 --> 02:01:57,790
Does it say attention at the
top?

2093
02:01:57,830 --> 02:02:00,110
Yes it does.
It's a yellow piece of paper.

2094
02:02:00,110 --> 02:02:02,390
It's a yellow flyer.
OK, I'm watching.

2095
02:02:03,430 --> 02:02:08,150
OK, you're reading OK, it says.
Attention amateurs.

2096
02:02:08,950 --> 02:02:11,110
Criminals.
Blue collar, white collar.

2097
02:02:11,510 --> 02:02:15,510
You have wrong people.
It is to people that you must

2098
02:02:15,510 --> 02:02:18,870
apologize.
Not to the state, not to God.

2099
02:02:19,270 --> 02:02:21,190
Get your misdeeds off your
chest.

2100
02:02:21,610 --> 02:02:23,250
And there's a number for you to
call.

2101
02:02:23,250 --> 02:02:25,130
It says call apology and then
the phone number.

2102
02:02:25,690 --> 02:02:27,250
It probably doesn't work
anymore.

2103
02:02:27,690 --> 02:02:29,770
Actually is.
There, I'm pretty sure it.

2104
02:02:30,090 --> 02:02:33,090
It does.
I think it not.

2105
02:02:33,250 --> 02:02:35,170
If it's not this one, there's
another one.

2106
02:02:35,170 --> 02:02:37,850
It's the same thing, and we'll
get into that later.

2107
02:02:38,010 --> 02:02:44,810
But so I'm gonna keep reading.
The idea of apology is to

2108
02:02:44,810 --> 02:02:47,770
provide a way for people to
apologize for your wrongs

2109
02:02:47,770 --> 02:02:49,930
against people without
jeopardizing themselves.

2110
02:02:50,460 --> 02:02:54,340
Apology will automatically tape
record your anonymous phone

2111
02:02:54,340 --> 02:02:56,860
call.
Do not identify yourself and

2112
02:02:56,860 --> 02:02:59,620
call from a pay phone to prevent
tracing.

2113
02:02:59,900 --> 02:03:03,340
Describe in detail what you have
done and how you feel about it.

2114
02:03:03,820 --> 02:03:07,660
When enough statements have been
collected, they will be played

2115
02:03:07,820 --> 02:03:11,220
to the public at a time and
place to be advertised.

2116
02:03:12,460 --> 02:03:16,700
Apology is a private experiment.
Its sole purpose is to provide a

2117
02:03:16,900 --> 02:03:22,990
new Ave. of communication.
It is not associated with any in

2118
02:03:22,990 --> 02:03:28,190
any way with any police,
government religious or other

2119
02:03:28,190 --> 02:03:31,950
organization.
So and there's a number and has

2120
02:03:31,950 --> 02:03:33,670
like it's oldfashioned of
course.

2121
02:03:33,670 --> 02:03:36,550
So this from 1980s has a little
number tabs you can pull off and

2122
02:03:36,550 --> 02:03:38,310
take and take it with you and
you can call.

2123
02:03:40,300 --> 02:03:44,820
If you, I mean and that guy.
Was his name Jose Ferreira?

2124
02:03:44,820 --> 02:03:48,660
He should have called this one.
He called the news station and

2125
02:03:48,660 --> 02:03:53,780
cried about how he killed a girl
and this was all.

2126
02:03:53,780 --> 02:03:55,860
Set up in New York.
So yeah.

2127
02:03:56,580 --> 02:03:59,100
OK, so this is only local.
Yeah, this is a different city,

2128
02:03:59,100 --> 02:04:00,580
but.
I remember that cases guys just

2129
02:04:00,580 --> 02:04:04,420
like just called the radio,
called the TV station and

2130
02:04:04,420 --> 02:04:07,100
sobbing about how he had
murdered a girl like 30 years

2131
02:04:07,100 --> 02:04:09,440
before.
And then it had like Gil, it was

2132
02:04:09,440 --> 02:04:13,280
the guilt was eating away at him
and they arrested him.

2133
02:04:14,360 --> 02:04:16,280
God, so I'm.
Like see he should have called

2134
02:04:16,280 --> 02:04:18,240
this number if he didn't want.
To get caught.

2135
02:04:18,240 --> 02:04:19,960
But he probably wanted to get
caught.

2136
02:04:19,960 --> 02:04:21,960
Yeah, we'll see.
Yeah, it should be in every

2137
02:04:21,960 --> 02:04:24,440
state.
Honest, honestly, it should be

2138
02:04:24,440 --> 02:04:25,640
there again.
I don't know.

2139
02:04:25,640 --> 02:04:27,280
Like, wouldn't it be full of
like you?

2140
02:04:27,280 --> 02:04:30,520
Imagine how many kids call the
number and are like I hit my

2141
02:04:30,520 --> 02:04:36,160
sister, I'm sorry and hang up.
Hey, sometimes, actually.

2142
02:04:36,700 --> 02:04:39,260
Hooking it.
Too, But there were some kids

2143
02:04:39,260 --> 02:04:43,740
that called the apology line.
Actually I can imagine like one

2144
02:04:43,740 --> 02:04:45,260
of your.
Kids calling you talk about

2145
02:04:45,260 --> 02:04:49,140
something they did to the other.
10 she took.

2146
02:04:49,140 --> 02:04:53,500
My teddy bear.
I'm so sorry.

2147
02:04:49,820 --> 02:04:54,580
So I smacked.
I didn't mean to.

2148
02:04:54,660 --> 02:04:56,020
I mean it.
She started crying.

2149
02:04:56,020 --> 02:04:59,820
So sorry.
I didn't really care until my

2150
02:04:59,820 --> 02:05:02,900
sister cried.
Yeah, same thing.

2151
02:05:02,900 --> 02:05:04,180
Then all of a sudden.
I was like.

2152
02:05:04,460 --> 02:05:06,420
Ah, shouldn't.
And I fucked up.

2153
02:05:06,420 --> 02:05:08,260
Got it.
But.

2154
02:05:08,260 --> 02:05:11,500
Yeah, this is my attempt to do
something a little different.

2155
02:05:11,500 --> 02:05:15,380
It's it's not true crime, but
it's also not paranormal.

2156
02:05:15,380 --> 02:05:17,980
It's just, you know, something's
interesting and it does.

2157
02:05:18,020 --> 02:05:21,500
It does have to do crimes and
stuff, but you know, this feels

2158
02:05:21,500 --> 02:05:25,940
very relevant to you know.
But it's not a tip line.

2159
02:05:25,940 --> 02:05:29,660
This is you releasing.
Do you just lay?

2160
02:05:29,660 --> 02:05:31,540
Yourself off your.
It's like a confessional,

2161
02:05:31,540 --> 02:05:35,800
basically, yeah.
Yeah, I know.

2162
02:05:35,800 --> 02:05:40,360
Right, so.
Before we get to the meet of

2163
02:05:40,640 --> 02:05:44,200
this topic, we had to start off
with the person who actually

2164
02:05:44,200 --> 02:05:49,720
created this apology line.
Is is a man named Allen Bridge.

2165
02:05:50,880 --> 02:05:55,680
So there wasn't much about his
childhood that he he did grew up

2166
02:05:55,680 --> 02:06:01,520
he he was born in Fall Church of
Virginia, February 14th, 1945.

2167
02:06:03,510 --> 02:06:07,310
And he went to the University of
Chicago and he got a degree and

2168
02:06:07,310 --> 02:06:13,230
Fine Arts like and he moves to
Washington, DC after he

2169
02:06:13,230 --> 02:06:20,030
graduates, he gets his degree
And he, of course he was an

2170
02:06:20,030 --> 02:06:23,350
artist.
So he did large scale paintings

2171
02:06:23,350 --> 02:06:27,870
and stuff like that.
And he had some of his art

2172
02:06:28,670 --> 02:06:32,710
exhibited at like, different
galleries and you know.

2173
02:06:36,410 --> 02:06:43,290
He did this from 1970 to. 1977
and in 1977, he eventually moves

2174
02:06:43,290 --> 02:06:48,170
to New York City.
He works as a sculptor,

2175
02:06:48,170 --> 02:06:52,410
Carpenter.
You know, he also had a little

2176
02:06:52,410 --> 02:06:56,890
bit of a criminal past himself.
He shoplifted.

2177
02:06:57,750 --> 02:07:01,350
It's just that was, yeah, that
was like his thing.

2178
02:07:01,350 --> 02:07:06,230
He would shoplift and I think
where'd I get the quote from The

2179
02:07:06,230 --> 02:07:12,950
wire and he got interviewed by
the wire Wired say and Oh yeah,

2180
02:07:12,950 --> 02:07:14,630
yeah, yeah, yeah.
And.

2181
02:07:14,990 --> 02:07:16,270
He was talking about how you
said.

2182
02:07:16,270 --> 02:07:18,470
The wire and my brain went to
the TV.

2183
02:07:18,470 --> 02:07:23,280
Show for a second My bad wire.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

2184
02:07:23,280 --> 02:07:24,320
The.
The.

2185
02:07:24,320 --> 02:07:26,160
Journalist site, that.
Covers kind of everything.

2186
02:07:26,440 --> 02:07:28,840
It used to be just technology,
but now they do everything.

2187
02:07:28,880 --> 02:07:32,440
Yeah, yeah.
But yeah, he got it.

2188
02:07:32,560 --> 02:07:34,760
He interviewed with them.
He talked about how he used to

2189
02:07:34,760 --> 02:07:41,040
shoplift and how just like, it
just seemed like it was

2190
02:07:42,320 --> 02:07:45,560
juvenile.
And like, he just felt really

2191
02:07:45,560 --> 02:07:47,680
guilty about doing it at that
time.

2192
02:07:48,320 --> 02:07:54,030
Yeah, and.
Like, I read this thing on

2193
02:07:54,070 --> 02:07:56,590
Wikipedia.
He made this art thing, like, so

2194
02:07:56,630 --> 02:07:58,790
it was like he made this type of
sculpture, right?

2195
02:07:59,150 --> 02:08:02,990
And it was called Crime Time.
It was like a freaking wheel.

2196
02:08:02,990 --> 02:08:05,470
If you look on Wikipedia, it
explains what it does.

2197
02:08:05,470 --> 02:08:08,270
It has crime or you.
Like you got away with a crime

2198
02:08:08,270 --> 02:08:11,750
or you didn't get away with a
crime, blah blah, you spin the

2199
02:08:11,750 --> 02:08:14,420
wheel.
You if it falls on you got away

2200
02:08:14,420 --> 02:08:17,180
to crime, then you get a fucking
marble or something.

2201
02:08:17,460 --> 02:08:20,420
Then if you don't get away to
crime, then you get locked into

2202
02:08:20,420 --> 02:08:24,060
this thing for like a minute.
And it was just like an art

2203
02:08:24,060 --> 02:08:27,660
project that he did, which is,
you know, yeah, it's really

2204
02:08:27,660 --> 02:08:29,580
interesting.
I read it like when I read it, I

2205
02:08:29,580 --> 02:08:30,460
was like, oh, that's pretty
cool.

2206
02:08:30,500 --> 02:08:34,100
That's pretty cool.
So.

2207
02:08:35,340 --> 02:08:39,740
We get to 1980.
Right, 1980, he has his idea.

2208
02:08:40,410 --> 02:08:43,890
For a social experiment, slash
our project, our experiment.

2209
02:08:45,570 --> 02:08:49,410
It's sort of a hotline for
people to apologize for things

2210
02:08:49,410 --> 02:08:52,730
they've done in their lives.
No judgment, no police.

2211
02:08:54,370 --> 02:08:59,490
And like I read from the flyer
earlier that was you guys can

2212
02:08:59,490 --> 02:09:01,050
look it up if you.
Want if you look.

2213
02:09:01,050 --> 02:09:04,130
At it.
It's it's something I think the

2214
02:09:04,210 --> 02:09:06,330
I'm I'm pretty sure the number
still works or that there's a

2215
02:09:06,330 --> 02:09:07,690
different number, but I'll get
it.

2216
02:09:07,690 --> 02:09:14,660
Like I said anyway.
So after he sets it up, after he

2217
02:09:14,660 --> 02:09:17,900
sets, like he goes around, you
know, New York City, he sets all

2218
02:09:17,900 --> 02:09:23,380
these Flyers around around the
city and the calls start rolling

2219
02:09:23,380 --> 02:09:28,380
in.
So he has, the way he has it set

2220
02:09:28,380 --> 02:09:32,780
up is that in his apartment it's
connected to an answering

2221
02:09:32,780 --> 02:09:36,580
machine.
So this is in his own personal

2222
02:09:36,580 --> 02:09:39,430
part of it.
And it's just the answer machine

2223
02:09:39,430 --> 02:09:43,310
just sitting there and it just
goes, you know, just he goes

2224
02:09:43,310 --> 02:09:48,990
away, he comes back there,
messages, and he just takes the

2225
02:09:48,990 --> 02:09:50,470
tape out.
He listens to him.

2226
02:09:52,510 --> 02:09:54,390
As you decide.
Which ones are good enough to go

2227
02:09:54,390 --> 02:09:55,110
on TV?
I.

2228
02:09:55,110 --> 02:09:57,590
Don't think he.
I don't think he.

2229
02:09:57,590 --> 02:10:00,630
Discriminated against.
I think he just played all of

2230
02:10:00,630 --> 02:10:02,590
them.
I mean, you want the juicy one,

2231
02:10:02,870 --> 02:10:05,070
like the guy who?
Does people of New York doesn't

2232
02:10:05,070 --> 02:10:06,890
pick the like?
Plain people.

2233
02:10:07,130 --> 02:10:08,810
He picks people who say
something crazy.

2234
02:10:11,530 --> 02:10:16,730
OK, true, true.
But his word like he was

2235
02:10:16,730 --> 02:10:19,330
basically just it was for
everybody.

2236
02:10:19,330 --> 02:10:23,770
So he didn't care whatever, he
just played it all.

2237
02:10:25,490 --> 02:10:30,530
And this range from a caller who
had witnessed a.

2238
02:10:32,200 --> 02:10:36,080
A I guess a robbery in a
bathroom and who did not report

2239
02:10:36,080 --> 02:10:37,280
it or didn't do anything about
it.

2240
02:10:37,280 --> 02:10:45,040
He just, he just let it happen
all the way up to murderers,

2241
02:10:45,040 --> 02:10:51,040
child molesters, people who have
just done terrible things.

2242
02:10:52,680 --> 02:10:57,520
So if you are inclined there,
look, so there's a podcast,

2243
02:10:57,520 --> 02:11:00,400
right?
It's it's called the apology

2244
02:11:00,400 --> 02:11:03,820
line.
It's all of somebody turn this

2245
02:11:03,940 --> 02:11:05,340
into.
So we wait.

2246
02:11:05,660 --> 02:11:09,620
Did somebody just research this,
or have they become the new

2247
02:11:09,620 --> 02:11:12,100
apology line?
It's the new apology line.

2248
02:11:12,180 --> 02:11:15,340
But guess what?
It's ran by his widow.

2249
02:11:15,340 --> 02:11:18,940
Oh, OK, so they're.
Still doing it?

2250
02:11:20,060 --> 02:11:19,340
Yeah, basically.
They never.

2251
02:11:22,060 --> 02:11:23,060
OK.
OK.

2252
02:11:23,460 --> 02:11:25,380
Yeah.
I'm not mad at that.

2253
02:11:25,380 --> 02:11:27,220
This is it's.
Weird I.

2254
02:11:27,220 --> 02:11:30,840
Don't know if I would.
Roll it in.

2255
02:11:33,440 --> 02:11:35,560
You don't think that if you?
Had something that was like

2256
02:11:35,560 --> 02:11:38,200
weighing.
Down on your chest that you like

2257
02:11:38,200 --> 02:11:41,240
you like something that you
really felt bad about.

2258
02:11:41,440 --> 02:11:45,600
That you you wouldn't call in,
you wouldn't like, want someone

2259
02:11:45,600 --> 02:11:49,320
to talk to you about that
besides.

2260
02:11:49,400 --> 02:11:50,280
Besides.
Like a priest.

2261
02:11:52,560 --> 02:11:57,240
Besides, like a priest or
somebody I have never done.

2262
02:11:57,240 --> 02:12:01,270
Anything that bad?
Neither have I, so we're good.

2263
02:12:03,230 --> 02:12:07,070
But yeah, the apology.
This is also why.

2264
02:12:07,070 --> 02:12:08,750
People have therapy.
This is true.

2265
02:12:09,270 --> 02:12:13,950
This is true.
Yeah, it's hosted by his widow.

2266
02:12:13,950 --> 02:12:18,830
Her name is Marissa Bridge.
So in the first episode, I

2267
02:12:18,830 --> 02:12:24,950
listed it like the first episode
because good research, yeah.

2268
02:12:27,350 --> 02:12:28,870
She.
Talks about, you know she just

2269
02:12:29,150 --> 02:12:31,790
it's like the the bare bones is
like she talks about how how

2270
02:12:31,790 --> 02:12:37,910
they met you know things about
Allen and stuff like that and

2271
02:12:37,990 --> 02:12:43,950
sprinkles in between like this
this episode there are recording

2272
02:12:43,950 --> 02:12:47,390
the recordings of the of the
phone calls the old one.

2273
02:12:47,390 --> 02:12:49,310
Yeah, yeah, yeah, They're all
like.

2274
02:12:49,830 --> 02:12:52,230
And.
Like some, it's a little hard to

2275
02:12:52,230 --> 02:12:54,470
listen to some of them because
of.

2276
02:12:54,950 --> 02:12:56,470
How?
Like, the quality is just a

2277
02:12:56,470 --> 02:13:03,350
little shitty, but there's one.
And.

2278
02:13:03,350 --> 02:13:08,070
It's at the like close to the
end of the episode where you

2279
02:13:08,070 --> 02:13:11,630
know so, so this is what he
would.

2280
02:13:11,630 --> 02:13:16,190
Do okay he would.
Like have like a dinner.

2281
02:13:16,190 --> 02:13:17,430
Party or something like that,
you know.

2282
02:13:17,430 --> 02:13:19,670
You'd be hanging out with his
friends and stuff at at his

2283
02:13:19,670 --> 02:13:24,640
apartment and he'd be like.
So let's see what apology has

2284
02:13:24,640 --> 02:13:26,000
today.
And just pop out.

2285
02:13:26,320 --> 02:13:29,800
Like pop in a tape just for
everybody, all his friends to

2286
02:13:29,800 --> 02:13:32,040
listen to.
Oh, I don't like.

2287
02:13:34,440 --> 02:13:39,760
It.
So there's this one tape that he

2288
02:13:39,760 --> 02:13:44,040
played.
For people start OK, I killed

2289
02:13:44,040 --> 02:13:46,400
my.
Baby brother when I was 14 years

2290
02:13:46,520 --> 02:13:49,000
old.
Like in the middle of a party.

2291
02:13:49,080 --> 02:13:51,750
Look look.
I.

2292
02:13:51,750 --> 02:13:53,590
Can read some of the quotes and
stuff.

2293
02:13:54,230 --> 02:13:56,710
I don't really.
I could not find any transcripts

2294
02:13:56,710 --> 02:13:59,830
from these phone calls and I
don't think I can play any of

2295
02:13:59,830 --> 02:14:01,430
them on here because I don't own
them.

2296
02:14:01,430 --> 02:14:07,150
So yeah, yeah, I didn't think
so, but it feels like that would

2297
02:14:07,150 --> 02:14:08,910
be smart.
Considering the widow.

2298
02:14:08,910 --> 02:14:11,270
Is still in control of all this
stuff true that we not.

2299
02:14:11,510 --> 02:14:13,270
So yeah, yeah.
How about we not do that?

2300
02:14:16,630 --> 02:14:19,590
But there's.
One there, there's one at the

2301
02:14:19,750 --> 02:14:21,030
at.
It's not the very end but it's

2302
02:14:21,030 --> 02:14:23,590
you know by posted end of the
episode.

2303
02:14:24,030 --> 02:14:30,070
Let me see if I can pull it up.
It's.

2304
02:14:30,470 --> 02:14:33,590
It's in 1981.
And is when he gets his phone

2305
02:14:33,590 --> 02:14:40,390
call or just this, this blah,
this message.

2306
02:14:40,590 --> 02:14:43,150
On the apology line.
Is it?

2307
02:14:43,940 --> 02:14:45,860
No, actually, he's ready.
Whatever.

2308
02:14:48,140 --> 02:14:52,220
He gets his phone call and it's
basically a death threat towards

2309
02:14:52,220 --> 02:14:56,940
him, yeah.
God.

2310
02:14:57,180 --> 02:15:01,100
If I had saved it.
My thing is, what if people

2311
02:15:01,140 --> 02:15:02,580
heard it and they?
Knew who it.

2312
02:15:02,940 --> 02:15:07,020
Was.
Like how many people ended up

2313
02:15:07,020 --> 02:15:10,220
getting.
So beat up.

2314
02:15:10,820 --> 02:15:12,530
Because.
Somebody was like I.

2315
02:15:12,570 --> 02:15:14,330
Really have to just get this off
of my trust.

2316
02:15:14,610 --> 02:15:17,930
I've been sleeping with my
friend's wife for three years

2317
02:15:18,090 --> 02:15:22,730
and I think the baby is mine.
And then that guy heard the call

2318
02:15:22,930 --> 02:15:25,330
and knew it was his friend.
And then be.

2319
02:15:25,330 --> 02:15:28,610
His friend's.
Ass I.

2320
02:15:28,770 --> 02:15:30,130
Mean.
That could because I mean some.

2321
02:15:30,130 --> 02:15:32,850
People's voices are.
This is true.

2322
02:15:33,330 --> 02:15:35,010
Like you can probably tell.
Well, I don't.

2323
02:15:35,010 --> 02:15:37,330
Know I have my I have a
telephone voice and then I have

2324
02:15:37,330 --> 02:15:42,010
this voice so.
Listen, if I was ever gonna call

2325
02:15:42,010 --> 02:15:43,250
any one.
Of those places I.

2326
02:15:43,250 --> 02:15:46,930
Would have to have like a voice
changer that was just like, I

2327
02:15:47,730 --> 02:15:50,970
don't know, I wanna play like it
would have to be like.

2328
02:15:50,970 --> 02:15:52,570
I'd have to have like the.
Saw voice.

2329
02:15:52,570 --> 02:15:55,810
Or something jigsaw be here.
Oh my God, yeah, I'd have to use

2330
02:15:55,810 --> 02:15:57,170
like.
One of those like voice changer.

2331
02:15:57,170 --> 02:15:59,330
Machines turn the, you know,
jigsaw.

2332
02:15:59,970 --> 02:16:04,610
I just wouldn't put myself in a
position to get rocked like.

2333
02:16:08,630 --> 02:16:11,030
Saying, I also don't sleep with
my best friend's cousins.

2334
02:16:11,030 --> 02:16:15,430
Uncle's dad.
So, OK, you know, so all.

2335
02:16:15,470 --> 02:16:16,750
Right.
You got the story, yeah.

2336
02:16:16,790 --> 02:16:18,190
So.
It's it's like so.

2337
02:16:18,190 --> 02:16:21,950
There's one caller, he.
Calls, and he sounds pretty

2338
02:16:21,950 --> 02:16:27,150
freaking manic, OK?
And he goes on about.

2339
02:16:27,150 --> 02:16:31,070
You know how he.
Would mug people in how at first

2340
02:16:31,070 --> 02:16:34,389
he started feeling guilty about
it, but then, like now that he's

2341
02:16:34,389 --> 02:16:37,870
called this apology line, he's
starting to, like, reconsider.

2342
02:16:38,190 --> 02:16:41,389
Feeling guilty about it because
he's getting off his chest now,

2343
02:16:41,549 --> 02:16:43,910
you know what I mean?
Like a confessional type of

2344
02:16:43,910 --> 02:16:49,030
thing.
So the quotes it.

2345
02:16:49,549 --> 02:16:52,389
He quotes it says The
opportunity you've given me to

2346
02:16:52,389 --> 02:16:55,709
apologize and tell these people
that I'm sorry, it's it's

2347
02:16:55,709 --> 02:16:59,350
fantastic.
And I could go out tonight and

2348
02:16:59,350 --> 02:17:06,709
start mugging again is and.
Like.

2349
02:17:07,150 --> 02:17:09,340
And like.
Close to the end of this phone

2350
02:17:09,340 --> 02:17:12,820
call, because this phone call
was pretty fucking long.

2351
02:17:13,100 --> 02:17:16,139
It was like I think 7 minutes is
what they said on the episode

2352
02:17:18,059 --> 02:17:20,700
and.
Towards the end of the.

2353
02:17:20,740 --> 02:17:27,860
The phone call, he goes.
This is to whoever is writing

2354
02:17:27,860 --> 02:17:33,059
this thing.
I will find out who you are and

2355
02:17:33,059 --> 02:17:37,809
he's like he's saying it and.
In not an angry way, but he's

2356
02:17:37,809 --> 02:17:38,690
saying it in.
Like a really.

2357
02:17:38,690 --> 02:17:42,250
Really manic way, like he's
like, he's happy, He's happily

2358
02:17:42,250 --> 02:17:47,090
saying this to this person, yes.
He's like.

2359
02:17:47,090 --> 02:17:52,410
I will find you.
And believe me, I will kill you

2360
02:17:53,250 --> 02:17:57,730
like I'm going to kill you.
And it's it's going to be okay,

2361
02:17:57,730 --> 02:17:59,610
right?
Because then I'll just apologize

2362
02:17:59,850 --> 02:18:03,570
and then it'll be all right.
So as long as someone accepts my

2363
02:18:03,570 --> 02:18:12,090
apology then it would be OK.
I.

2364
02:18:12,090 --> 02:18:14,250
Heard this?
When I heard it.

2365
02:18:14,809 --> 02:18:22,370
I was like, Oh my God.
This is terrible.

2366
02:18:22,730 --> 02:18:26,490
Oh my.
God, yeah.

2367
02:18:30,320 --> 02:18:32,799
I'm pretty like it says that he
has he's.

2368
02:18:32,799 --> 02:18:36,639
Gotten other that that stress
but that was like that's the one

2369
02:18:36,920 --> 02:18:41,240
that I I don't want to hear any
other ones that's like how they

2370
02:18:41,240 --> 02:18:46,680
go because that's that was bad
that gave me chills when I first

2371
02:18:46,680 --> 02:18:47,400
heard.
It and I was like.

2372
02:18:49,080 --> 02:18:54,240
Yeah, that's rough.
There's a, There's a.

2373
02:18:54,240 --> 02:18:56,559
Person who called, I guess it
was a prankster or somebody

2374
02:18:56,559 --> 02:19:00,200
called is like.
So it's like they did a poem

2375
02:19:00,200 --> 02:19:01,320
type of.
Thing and it.

2376
02:19:01,320 --> 02:19:05,639
Goes you've raved and raved.
That I'm.

2377
02:19:05,639 --> 02:19:10,200
Depraved the son of Sam in a
frying pan.

2378
02:19:10,520 --> 02:19:17,240
But can you guess who I have?
So.

2379
02:19:18,920 --> 02:19:21,200
Apparently one of his.
Callers may have.

2380
02:19:21,480 --> 02:19:26,080
Been like Son of Sam, oh.
Interesting.

2381
02:19:28,629 --> 02:19:32,309
That is a speculation that had
happened.

2382
02:19:26,080 --> 02:19:35,350
Yeah, yeah.
Definitely intriguing.

2383
02:19:36,110 --> 02:19:42,790
Alright, but yeah, like after a
while a.

2384
02:19:42,790 --> 02:19:45,590
Lot of these calls stopped
sounding like they're trying to

2385
02:19:45,590 --> 02:19:48,870
apologize and they are starting
to sound more like they were

2386
02:19:49,390 --> 02:19:54,030
bragging about what they did and
you know how.

2387
02:19:56,180 --> 02:20:00,140
Serial killers or murderers, you
know, you know, you know, they

2388
02:20:00,140 --> 02:20:02,180
just want.
Yeah, that's exactly what I was

2389
02:20:02,180 --> 02:20:03,260
thinking about.
Yeah, it's.

2390
02:20:03,260 --> 02:20:05,540
Just like they want, they want
people.

2391
02:20:05,540 --> 02:20:10,780
To know what they did and a lot
of his.

2392
02:20:10,780 --> 02:20:12,660
Friends started to drift away
because.

2393
02:20:13,100 --> 02:20:15,300
Like, like I said, he will play
these tapes for them and then

2394
02:20:15,420 --> 02:20:18,540
they just, like, be worried
about and like, are you OK,

2395
02:20:18,540 --> 02:20:20,250
dude?
Like you're listening to these

2396
02:20:20,250 --> 02:20:24,330
tapes like every day, and these
the stories that these people

2397
02:20:24,330 --> 02:20:26,250
are telling you.
Like, imagine.

2398
02:20:27,330 --> 02:20:31,970
Imagine, Brittany.
Imagine.

2399
02:20:31,970 --> 02:20:34,170
Like when we were recording at
your apartment and.

2400
02:20:34,170 --> 02:20:37,690
I just be coming over with
these.

2401
02:20:37,850 --> 02:20:42,770
This whole thing of voicemails
of people is leaving these

2402
02:20:42,770 --> 02:20:45,930
confessions to me and we just be
listening to them.

2403
02:20:47,170 --> 02:20:53,660
I wouldn't.
Ah, no thank you, Sir.

2404
02:20:54,940 --> 02:20:57,860
What you feel like wouldn't?
You be like a little concerned?

2405
02:20:57,860 --> 02:21:00,660
About you like my mental state,
like, right?

2406
02:21:01,540 --> 02:21:05,180
I would be concerned for you,
concerned for me.

2407
02:21:07,460 --> 02:21:09,700
I'd be like why?
Why is this going on?

2408
02:21:09,700 --> 02:21:12,900
Like, it's a cool thing, but you
know what?

2409
02:21:12,900 --> 02:21:14,940
Like it's well, it's
interesting.

2410
02:21:15,510 --> 02:21:18,230
I think all of this stuff is a
little consuming for us.

2411
02:21:18,310 --> 02:21:22,430
Do you find yourself spending a
lot?

2412
02:21:22,670 --> 02:21:26,270
Of time on what we do, of
course.

2413
02:21:29,150 --> 02:21:32,030
And so, like, there's at one
point when, like, you know, I

2414
02:21:32,030 --> 02:21:28,350
got sick in January.
Yeah, me.

2415
02:21:33,790 --> 02:21:39,870
I got.
Cat died.

2416
02:21:40,430 --> 02:21:42,230
Like there's a bunch of stuff
happened.

2417
02:21:42,230 --> 02:21:45,370
And I was just like, I can only
do the podcast right now.

2418
02:21:45,810 --> 02:21:48,290
And I kind of, like dropped off
on TikTok, and I've been trying

2419
02:21:48,290 --> 02:21:51,450
to get back into doing that.
But this is a very overwhelming,

2420
02:21:51,450 --> 02:21:53,050
like all of this stuff is
overwhelmed.

2421
02:21:53,290 --> 02:21:55,930
Yeah, it didn't occur to me
that.

2422
02:21:55,930 --> 02:21:59,530
Like, on average now I'm reading
like multiple books a week for

2423
02:21:59,530 --> 02:22:02,210
this.
I'm always researching and

2424
02:22:02,210 --> 02:22:05,050
writing stuff and it's it's
pretty much my entire life.

2425
02:22:05,530 --> 02:22:09,890
Yeah, yeah.
And and.

2426
02:22:12,930 --> 02:22:16,970
I guess like on one hand you
feel like, like people tell me

2427
02:22:16,970 --> 02:22:20,650
that they like go to sleep
listening to podcasts or

2428
02:22:20,650 --> 02:22:23,210
listening to Tick Tocks or the
YouTube channel.

2429
02:22:30,770 --> 02:22:34,090
You know that we have for it and
things of that nature but other

2430
02:22:34,090 --> 02:22:37,930
times it's just it's really
stressful and so I don't I

2431
02:22:37,970 --> 02:22:24,850
absolutely.
And so that's such a high

2432
02:22:24,850 --> 02:22:27,530
compliment because I do that to
other creators stuff, right?

2433
02:22:27,770 --> 02:22:29,970
Yeah, same.
And people like the.

2434
02:22:38,770 --> 02:22:43,160
Identify with him getting
overwhelmed by that like he it's

2435
02:22:44,680 --> 02:22:47,120
it's so.
Much show that like recently I

2436
02:22:47,120 --> 02:22:51,320
was talking to somebody online
and he was like, oh, he wanted

2437
02:22:51,320 --> 02:22:53,920
to like know more about the job.
And I was just like, I don't

2438
02:22:53,920 --> 02:22:57,320
want to talk about the job, no,
the.

2439
02:22:57,320 --> 02:22:59,760
Job is enough.
For me that I talk about it

2440
02:22:59,760 --> 02:23:02,440
while I'm doing it.
I don't want to sit here and

2441
02:23:02,440 --> 02:23:05,000
talk to crime with you in my
free time.

2442
02:23:05,000 --> 02:23:09,530
Can we talk about anything else
please, like and I didn't

2443
02:23:09,530 --> 02:23:12,610
realize that that happened until
that moment for me, that I have

2444
02:23:12,610 --> 02:23:18,530
created a very strong line in
the sand of through crime life.

2445
02:23:19,330 --> 02:23:23,130
Rest of life in order for me to
be OK with this.

2446
02:23:23,250 --> 02:23:26,010
And for my mental health to be
great, so you can, so you could

2447
02:23:26,010 --> 02:23:30,410
say, saying absolutely.
So I think maybe his issue was

2448
02:23:30,410 --> 02:23:32,370
that he.
Did not create that line in the

2449
02:23:32,370 --> 02:23:34,290
sand.
He did not, because this was his

2450
02:23:34,290 --> 02:23:37,420
entire fucking life.
And that's unfortunate, because

2451
02:23:37,420 --> 02:23:39,340
he started to do.
Something good and he was

2452
02:23:39,340 --> 02:23:43,380
intrigued by by what people
would say and what they would do

2453
02:23:43,380 --> 02:23:48,420
but it.
It was just like it.

2454
02:23:48,420 --> 02:23:49,700
Just started taking.
Over his life.

2455
02:23:50,820 --> 02:23:55,660
So it's a lot.
After a.

2456
02:23:58,940 --> 02:24:01,740
I think it went on for.
About 15 years.

2457
02:24:04,100 --> 02:24:08,660
Yeah, the his this line that the
phone number that's on the on

2458
02:24:08,660 --> 02:24:10,700
the flyer, it stayed up for
about 15 years.

2459
02:24:19,180 --> 02:24:17,780
Right.
It was active until he died.

2460
02:24:20,260 --> 02:24:24,900
You did say that he passed away
and not his widow runs things or

2461
02:24:24,900 --> 02:24:28,480
runs a.
It's probably not as intent.

2462
02:24:31,720 --> 02:24:29,600
It's all about the apology line.
It's the podcast.

2463
02:24:29,600 --> 02:24:31,320
It's all about this, this
apology.

2464
02:24:35,240 --> 02:24:38,080
He passed and.
OK, I had.

2465
02:24:38,080 --> 02:24:41,520
A year?
Hold on a second, he passed in.

2466
02:24:41,800 --> 02:24:45,640
1995.
So yeah, it stopped like

2467
02:24:46,240 --> 02:24:51,680
basically when he died and but
they had a consistent amount of

2468
02:24:51,680 --> 02:24:55,440
people doing it for that long,
people calling in.

2469
02:24:56,590 --> 02:24:58,790
Oh yeah.
Oh, absolutely.

2470
02:24:58,950 --> 02:25:03,590
Like, oh wow, there there are
people calling in like basically

2471
02:25:03,590 --> 02:25:07,870
every fucking day.
That's that's intriguing to me.

2472
02:25:09,270 --> 02:25:15,190
So there.
OK, there's this type of.

2473
02:25:15,390 --> 02:25:16,030
I don't know.
I'm going.

2474
02:25:16,030 --> 02:25:18,390
To say it's a.
Conspiracy type of thing, but it

2475
02:25:18,390 --> 02:25:21,150
was kind of a conspiracy type of
thing when this was going on.

2476
02:25:22,270 --> 02:25:24,670
So he had this caller.
I guess they would.

2477
02:25:25,550 --> 02:25:31,310
Called regularly, maybe 00, they
created a friendship of.

2478
02:25:31,710 --> 02:25:38,590
Soar and his name was Richie.
And apparently Richie was a some

2479
02:25:38,590 --> 02:25:41,710
type of serial killer who
wouldn't go after gay men, and

2480
02:25:42,990 --> 02:25:46,630
that was a thing people did.
Yeah, gotcha.

2481
02:25:46,910 --> 02:25:49,230
And, you know, learn about the
clubs.

2482
02:25:49,230 --> 02:25:57,240
And stuff and then murder them.
But.

2483
02:25:59,560 --> 02:26:01,440
What I.
Got from this article.

2484
02:26:01,440 --> 02:26:07,240
That I was reading.
Is that Richie ended up being a

2485
02:26:07,240 --> 02:26:11,800
fake?
A fraud like.

2486
02:26:11,840 --> 02:26:13,400
OK, that makes.
Sense you just want the.

2487
02:26:13,400 --> 02:26:15,880
Attention, yeah, like is there,
were like.

2488
02:26:16,670 --> 02:26:19,270
I know he, like, he got a lot of
pranksters calling in, you know?

2489
02:26:29,910 --> 02:26:20,990
Side note, still creepy.
Of course, you know you got a

2490
02:26:20,990 --> 02:26:23,950
lot of people calling in, like
being silly and shit.

2491
02:26:24,790 --> 02:26:27,110
But this one?
But he thought this was real.

2492
02:26:27,110 --> 02:26:28,510
But this was just somebody's
fantasy.

2493
02:26:31,390 --> 02:26:32,870
Absolutely.
Absolutely.

2494
02:26:33,510 --> 02:26:37,070
And there.
Were there were a couple calls

2495
02:26:37,070 --> 02:26:41,350
from child runaways as well?
Is that, you know, they're

2496
02:26:41,350 --> 02:26:44,190
calling in like a pause, just
get their stuff off their chest.

2497
02:26:45,430 --> 02:26:48,670
Yeah, I'm sure they felt sad.
I mean, just not sad but, you

2498
02:26:48,750 --> 02:26:51,750
know, guilty.
Yeah, yeah, it was.

2499
02:26:52,630 --> 02:26:56,110
Pretty bad.
But so I was going, I was going

2500
02:26:56,110 --> 02:26:57,830
to go into his murder.
Not his murder.

2501
02:26:58,430 --> 02:27:00,510
His death.
Because he didn't get murdered,

2502
02:27:00,510 --> 02:27:02,430
obviously.
He kind of he did get murdered.

2503
02:27:05,070 --> 02:27:08,030
OK, so.
He was killed.

2504
02:27:09,110 --> 02:27:13,750
When he was scuba diving and he
got.

2505
02:27:14,790 --> 02:27:15,350
It was.
A.

2506
02:27:20,510 --> 02:27:15,790
It was a hit.
Hit and.

2507
02:27:20,910 --> 02:27:26,830
And run Jet Ski operator.
So someone was someone was

2508
02:27:26,830 --> 02:27:33,470
riding, riding a jet ski and as
they ran over him when he was

2509
02:27:33,470 --> 02:27:37,190
scuba diving or I guess yeah
and.

2510
02:27:40,690 --> 02:27:42,970
I That's just a terrible way to
go.

2511
02:27:43,210 --> 02:27:45,770
First of all, wow.
Yeah, that's wow.

2512
02:27:47,250 --> 02:27:55,170
So I got for you on that one.
Wonder how often that happens in

2513
02:27:55,170 --> 02:27:57,130
the world.
God, I have no idea.

2514
02:27:57,130 --> 02:27:58,650
But I don't want it to happen
anymore.

2515
02:28:00,490 --> 02:28:04,930
But yeah, he he got so there was
like a.

2516
02:28:05,990 --> 02:28:09,950
A thing going on after this
happened and they'd asked his,

2517
02:28:09,950 --> 02:28:13,870
you know, his widows and like,
So what if this, this jet ski

2518
02:28:13,870 --> 02:28:19,750
person had like called the
apology line And you know what?

2519
02:28:19,750 --> 02:28:23,150
I mean what they called.
After they hit, you know,

2520
02:28:23,150 --> 02:28:26,670
murdered him and they, you know,
had said, you know, I ran over

2521
02:28:26,670 --> 02:28:30,030
this person with my jet ski and
I ran away, didn't stay at the

2522
02:28:30,030 --> 02:28:34,530
scene and.
And I feel terrible about it and

2523
02:28:34,530 --> 02:28:36,250
I'm pretty sure they died
because of it.

2524
02:28:37,930 --> 02:28:41,850
And and you know what?
If she would have, what?

2525
02:28:41,850 --> 02:28:44,050
If she heard.
That and she got that, you know,

2526
02:28:44,050 --> 02:28:45,490
that call.
She heard that call.

2527
02:28:45,730 --> 02:28:49,810
Like, would she be able to
forgive this person because they

2528
02:28:49,810 --> 02:28:53,370
called in.
What did she?

2529
02:28:53,610 --> 02:29:00,610
Say I think I do hold on,
Probably not.

2530
02:29:04,020 --> 02:29:09,820
I don't think she.
Said that she she would.

2531
02:29:10,980 --> 02:29:13,820
She would not for.
She would forgive them, the

2532
02:29:13,820 --> 02:29:17,980
person because, you know, that's
the apology line they've

2533
02:29:18,380 --> 02:29:27,580
forgiven.
That's another thing.

2534
02:29:31,550 --> 02:29:35,630
I have a I have a very small.
List of things of of people who

2535
02:29:35,630 --> 02:29:40,790
have done something bad enough
to me that I actually really

2536
02:29:40,790 --> 02:29:43,230
want.
Like deeply want their apology

2537
02:29:43,230 --> 02:29:47,430
for it.
And the problem is I don't know

2538
02:29:47,430 --> 02:29:50,710
if it's enough.
Like I don't know if an apology

2539
02:29:50,750 --> 02:29:54,430
would.
Even matter at that point.

2540
02:29:54,710 --> 02:30:00,930
Something that big it's.
Yeah, it's so.

2541
02:30:01,370 --> 02:30:05,170
I do have a quote from her from
from this this this interview

2542
02:30:05,330 --> 02:30:08,530
that she you know where this
question that someone gave her

2543
02:30:08,930 --> 02:30:14,890
and she says that the person
knew it was an accident and that

2544
02:30:14,890 --> 02:30:18,690
it wasn't his fault.
He could have.

2545
02:30:18,730 --> 02:30:22,410
He couldn't have predicted A
scuba diver were surfaced at the

2546
02:30:22,410 --> 02:30:24,050
that moment right in front of
him.

2547
02:30:24,560 --> 02:30:27,640
Maybe the person was really
young and gave into the impulse

2548
02:30:27,640 --> 02:30:30,040
to run away rather than stay
face things.

2549
02:30:30,520 --> 02:30:33,040
I'm sure whoever they are, they
are sorry.

2550
02:30:33,320 --> 02:30:36,880
So that's what she says about
that.

2551
02:30:40,400 --> 02:30:46,720
But the like I said, the apology
line, it's still up and running.

2552
02:30:48,520 --> 02:30:50,560
I I do believe it's a different
number, but it's still a New

2553
02:30:50,560 --> 02:30:52,640
York number, New York area, New
York's.

2554
02:30:52,960 --> 02:30:55,480
Saturday City area code, the
215.

2555
02:30:55,680 --> 02:31:00,600
Whatever area code.
If you want to give them a call,

2556
02:31:00,600 --> 02:31:04,920
look them up.
If you have something you get

2557
02:31:04,920 --> 02:31:10,200
off your chest.
Maybe we'll hear you one day on

2558
02:31:10,200 --> 02:31:15,480
their podcast because there are
quite a few episodes and they do

2559
02:31:15,480 --> 02:31:17,800
have a YouTube video the.
YouTube channel too with.

2560
02:31:18,120 --> 02:31:21,870
The the podcast on it.
And they they give the number

2561
02:31:21,870 --> 02:31:27,470
out on there just in case people
want to call and and you know,

2562
02:31:28,550 --> 02:31:33,590
get their confess to whatever
they need to confess to if you

2563
02:31:33,590 --> 02:31:37,030
don't want to go to a
confessional to talk to a

2564
02:31:37,030 --> 02:31:43,150
priest.
But.

2565
02:31:43,910 --> 02:31:46,870
You know I did I I.
Did find it's like really

2566
02:31:46,870 --> 02:31:52,130
interesting to look into just.
Because of, like, So it started

2567
02:31:52,130 --> 02:31:56,170
off as like, I'm not even sure
if he thought he'd get a lot of

2568
02:31:56,170 --> 02:32:02,490
calls in the beginning, but then
it just freaking exploded.

2569
02:32:02,530 --> 02:32:05,010
Apparently a lot of people in
New York had a lot of stuff to

2570
02:32:05,010 --> 02:32:07,130
get off the chest at this in the
80s.

2571
02:32:07,810 --> 02:32:16,410
I wonder why?
Because 80s, eighty and it's

2572
02:32:16,410 --> 02:32:18,290
just like.
God.

2573
02:32:19,160 --> 02:32:20,840
Like I met Okay.
So it is going wrong.

2574
02:32:20,840 --> 02:32:23,000
It's going on today, but you
know what I mean.

2575
02:32:23,080 --> 02:32:29,040
Just like.
What if there was a serial

2576
02:32:29,040 --> 02:32:30,040
killer out?
There today.

2577
02:32:30,040 --> 02:32:32,920
And they're just like, you know
what, this is starting to weigh

2578
02:32:32,920 --> 02:32:36,320
down on me and I just need to
talk to somebody about this

2579
02:32:37,280 --> 02:32:44,360
without repercussions.
And this is that was a way.

2580
02:32:44,520 --> 02:32:46,760
This is a way.
You know, it's funny.

2581
02:32:47,600 --> 02:32:51,640
He did get calls from the cops
to like hand over some of like I

2582
02:32:51,680 --> 02:32:57,800
think one of the tapes because
of a I think it was a Ritchie

2583
02:32:57,800 --> 02:32:59,440
thing.
I'm pretty sure it was a Ritchie

2584
02:32:59,440 --> 02:33:02,960
thing because he said it sounded
like the cop said it sounded

2585
02:33:02,960 --> 02:33:07,400
like some person who was going
around and doing it like it was

2586
02:33:07,400 --> 02:33:10,240
sounded like something that was
actually happening in in the

2587
02:33:10,560 --> 02:33:16,160
vicinity, in the area.
So you know he what?

2588
02:33:16,530 --> 02:33:23,210
What Alan did was that he went
on a radio station and and he

2589
02:33:23,210 --> 02:33:25,690
played this tape.
He's like, so he he told the cop

2590
02:33:25,690 --> 02:33:28,330
he's like, I can't give you the
tape but here's what I'm going

2591
02:33:28,330 --> 02:33:30,650
to do.
I want to play this on the radio

2592
02:33:31,410 --> 02:33:36,770
and if you want to hear it again
just listen to the radio.

2593
02:33:39,650 --> 02:33:44,490
So that's that's that's what he
did and.

2594
02:33:47,520 --> 02:33:49,840
Like and like he he's, he
played.

2595
02:33:49,840 --> 02:33:52,160
This for a lot of people, and he
is, he wrote.

2596
02:33:52,160 --> 02:34:00,000
He wrote his own fan magazine
about all the about all the

2597
02:34:00,000 --> 02:34:03,880
calls that he received, and I'm
pretty sure he transcribed him

2598
02:34:03,920 --> 02:34:09,680
on to this magazine, which I
cannot find for the life of me.

2599
02:34:11,650 --> 02:34:14,370
Way out of print the.
Probably magazines are exactly

2600
02:34:14,410 --> 02:34:15,410
making the notes to.
Money.

2601
02:34:15,850 --> 02:34:18,410
Look here, I'm gonna, I'm gonna
go on.

2602
02:34:18,410 --> 02:34:23,010
Archive.org and then check it
out and check and see if it's on

2603
02:34:23,010 --> 02:34:25,210
there.
That might be the place to find

2604
02:34:25,250 --> 02:34:27,490
it, because they're like there's
another book written about it

2605
02:34:27,490 --> 02:34:29,650
and something about the.
Apollo it's titled something

2606
02:34:29,650 --> 02:34:30,730
Apology.
I don't know.

2607
02:34:30,850 --> 02:34:35,330
Apology line.
But well, when I.

2608
02:34:35,330 --> 02:34:37,770
Just googled it.
When you first brought it up, it

2609
02:34:37,770 --> 02:34:41,330
said the apology project.
That might be it.

2610
02:34:42,410 --> 02:34:44,370
Yeah, I guess that's.
What they referred to it as.

2611
02:34:44,370 --> 02:34:46,370
In the beginning, like a
project?

2612
02:34:46,810 --> 02:34:51,410
Yeah, yeah, it was our project.
Interesting.

2613
02:34:54,730 --> 02:34:58,490
But yeah.
That's what I got.

2614
02:34:58,690 --> 02:34:59,490
Any.
Thoughts.

2615
02:35:00,210 --> 02:35:04,010
How would you feel about?
Well, you said you wouldn't do

2616
02:35:04,010 --> 02:35:05,530
it.
You wouldn't call.

2617
02:35:05,730 --> 02:35:08,450
You don't have anything to
confess that's that bad.

2618
02:35:10,480 --> 02:35:12,640
What if the things that keep?
Me, the things that keep.

2619
02:35:12,640 --> 02:35:17,240
Me up are things that I didn't
say.

2620
02:35:17,800 --> 02:35:19,760
To the people who are no longer
here.

2621
02:35:21,800 --> 02:35:23,440
Sorry to bring.
You down, I mean.

2622
02:35:23,480 --> 02:35:26,000
But like I mean that could be
so.

2623
02:35:26,040 --> 02:35:27,800
That.
Like saying that out loud

2624
02:35:27,800 --> 02:35:33,680
doesn't help me and it doesn't
help the person who I didn't.

2625
02:35:33,680 --> 02:35:37,560
Apologize to before they died,
you know, I mean, like.

2626
02:35:38,960 --> 02:35:43,360
My list of regrets is.
Weird, no?

2627
02:35:44,120 --> 02:35:44,040
I get it, yeah.
I get.

2628
02:35:45,520 --> 02:35:48,120
And most of the time, I tell
people how I feel about them.

2629
02:35:48,960 --> 02:35:51,520
Almost all of the time this.
Is true.

2630
02:35:53,440 --> 02:35:56,520
So.
Well, that's just it was a

2631
02:35:56,640 --> 02:35:59,920
conscious decision I made in
learning about like,

2632
02:35:59,920 --> 02:36:06,040
communication and stuff as as a
woman and deciding that I wanted

2633
02:36:06,640 --> 02:36:09,910
to present myself in a certain
way.

2634
02:36:12,030 --> 02:36:14,510
It's weird because.
People meet me and they

2635
02:36:14,510 --> 02:36:17,150
instantly feel close to me
because I am so open to them

2636
02:36:17,150 --> 02:36:19,670
about a lot of things.
But they're things that I don't

2637
02:36:19,670 --> 02:36:22,830
consider to be like secrets.
Like I I'll mention like

2638
02:36:22,830 --> 02:36:26,390
randomly that I was like adopted
by other family members and

2639
02:36:26,670 --> 02:36:28,950
they're like you told me about
your adoption and I'm.

2640
02:36:28,950 --> 02:36:37,640
Like, I don't care. 34 It's not
that exciting as the story goes,

2641
02:36:39,240 --> 02:36:45,760
but they feel like I've they
feel like I have really like

2642
02:36:45,800 --> 02:36:47,600
Expressed.
Myself deeply.

2643
02:36:48,000 --> 02:36:51,440
And it's it's weird, bizarre
stuff.

2644
02:36:51,440 --> 02:36:54,280
That people close to me know
that probably wouldn't trip

2645
02:36:54,280 --> 02:36:57,480
other people up, but has me
like, oh, this sucks.

2646
02:36:59,080 --> 02:37:01,520
So I don't know.
I just can't.

2647
02:37:01,600 --> 02:37:03,000
I don't know.
I don't think I've done anything

2648
02:37:03,000 --> 02:37:04,480
bad enough to even need to be on
there.

2649
02:37:04,720 --> 02:37:08,320
Yeah, I don't know.
I.

2650
02:37:08,320 --> 02:37:13,080
Do feel like it's a good.
Like something that needs to be

2651
02:37:13,080 --> 02:37:18,280
around, even if like the cops.
Are involved with.

2652
02:37:18,280 --> 02:37:21,480
It, but it's like and people
don't feel like comfortable

2653
02:37:21,480 --> 02:37:26,120
going somewhere else, like talk
to a therapist or something like

2654
02:37:26,120 --> 02:37:26,920
that.
It's like.

2655
02:37:27,980 --> 02:37:31,900
You know, a lot of people don't
have people.

2656
02:37:31,980 --> 02:37:34,860
Yeah, exactly.
And I remember years.

2657
02:37:34,860 --> 02:37:39,820
Ago when the The Free Hugs
project happened in New York, a

2658
02:37:39,820 --> 02:37:42,220
friend of mine.
Was was working there for a

2659
02:37:42,220 --> 02:37:46,060
while and actually said that it
was overwhelming for her.

2660
02:37:46,060 --> 02:37:51,100
How many people like would give
her a hug and just saw?

2661
02:37:51,460 --> 02:37:55,660
She said there are so many
people who are touch starved and

2662
02:37:55,660 --> 02:37:58,820
would say like this is the first
time that I've like touched

2663
02:37:58,820 --> 02:38:01,260
another human being in.
Months.

2664
02:38:01,260 --> 02:38:06,700
God like.
We are a strangely.

2665
02:38:06,700 --> 02:38:09,500
Separate culture.
It's part of our culture to be

2666
02:38:09,500 --> 02:38:16,180
like isolated.
Almost like other cultures.

2667
02:38:16,220 --> 02:38:19,380
Like believe in like having
multi generational houses and

2668
02:38:19,380 --> 02:38:21,860
things of that nature.
I would say that your family's

2669
02:38:22,060 --> 02:38:23,940
probably a little bit better.
You could visit the

2670
02:38:23,940 --> 02:38:27,800
grandparents, like weekly.
Yeah, things of that nature, but

2671
02:38:27,800 --> 02:38:28,640
A.
Lot of people don't.

2672
02:38:28,640 --> 02:38:31,040
I mean, I don't.
I just have me and my friends.

2673
02:38:31,480 --> 02:38:35,840
I mean, my closest living
relative is 40 minutes away.

2674
02:38:35,840 --> 02:38:38,640
But we don't.
Really talk that much.

2675
02:38:38,680 --> 02:38:43,920
I should call them more.
A lot of people are.

2676
02:38:43,920 --> 02:38:46,120
Like that in this country and
like we believe that like as

2677
02:38:46,120 --> 02:38:48,760
soon as you turn 18, you move
out and then you're grown up and

2678
02:38:48,760 --> 02:38:51,640
you're by yourself.
And like other countries don't

2679
02:38:51,640 --> 02:38:54,680
do that.
They stay together forever.

2680
02:38:54,760 --> 02:38:57,680
Yeah, yeah.
Then they bring their.

2681
02:38:57,680 --> 02:39:01,440
Parents into their house and
then the kids.

2682
02:39:01,440 --> 02:39:04,320
Grow up with their grandparents
and so you maybe you don't feel

2683
02:39:04,320 --> 02:39:07,840
as alone or you don't need
something like that in another

2684
02:39:07,840 --> 02:39:11,160
place because you have that
that.

2685
02:39:11,200 --> 02:39:15,720
Support in your life.
That's very it's.

2686
02:39:17,280 --> 02:39:21,880
Very nicely said, I like it
anyway.

2687
02:39:22,250 --> 02:39:24,770
Thanks a bunch for being.
And yeah, thank you guys for

2688
02:39:24,770 --> 02:39:28,490
listening this week.
Stupidity for extra long episode

2689
02:39:28,490 --> 02:39:35,050
because I don't know.
When to stop?

2690
02:39:35,050 --> 02:39:37,690
It's all good.
Have a good weekend.

2691
02:39:37,890 --> 02:39:40,050
Bye, bye.