Fred and Rosemary West: The Worst Kind of Love & Spectrophilia

0:30 Everyone is your killer country. My name is Brittany. Ran the bunny is range winner and this is one Killers, get caught the podcast of us, deep Dives, get to true. If you're new here with those a Class III part podcast, where we discuss true crime stories that resonated with us this week, then will lead you down the path of a well-known or lesser known killer and discuss their childhood lives methodology and, of course how they got caught, then Brian will finish things off with a paranormal palate, cleanser And before we start this week, just want to let everybody know. We still have a patreon and we now have well over 20 bonus episodes of conspiracy crip. That is totally something you get. There's also access to monthly amas if you want to talk to us. We do.

1:11 We'll do a phone call with you Brian and I will figure it out. What works best for you. We actually give discount codes to our merch through patreon. So those are all possible things. If you just want to take a look at our merge WW1 coach, It caught dot shop is where you can find it. Yeah, you know what I've been actually thinking about adding like something else to the patron. Maybe like a I was to maybe like a movie night or something, we could do that. Like that could be a lot of fun because I have that shudder account and like, I watch it like you cuz I haven't I made my own because your other one broke dude, working on my app. Yeah, really it's no so works for me but yeah, it can be back home. So I can cancel mine and not have to beat Paying double a month.

1:57 I got you. I got you. Oh yeah, yeah cuz I the shutter half. I'm like, you know what? We can freaking watch movies. Scary movies. Like I've been watching so many movies, I'm sure I love it. There's a one I really watched called we go on. That was incredible. I was expecting it to be like, kind of making fun of the Supernatural. And what I got was somebody who was really like facing like death in a different way. And then Experiencing what it was like to be haunted in a totally different way that movies don't normally do. That would be one. I would totally watch again with anybody. I'll check it out, but we'll figure it out. We'll see if we add to the patriarch. Yeah, now this week in True Crime I decide to find something that was a little more light and fun because this week's Killers couple is pretty intense.

2:54 So I have a question for you. Brian, how far would you go for mayonnaise? Like 20 feet to my fridge. It's like I don't know maybe 10 feet and that's about it. Maybe maybe. Do you think you would murder somebody over me? Fuck no. I mean I don't know how this happened in 2020 but the man in trouble just got sentenced to life in prison so I'll explain it all to you. So Christopher Earl Bakr who is now 29 years old? Use his truck to run over Caleb Solberg outside of the cafe in a small town of pigs got Des Moines on December 17th. 20/20. Originally, he drove away and then he came back and hit him two more times so that you have been out drinking at this bar with another person who earlier in the night and the City of Moorhead.

3:58 But things were a little weird when Earl Bakker. Took mayo and spread it over his friends food, which made Solberg really upset and they got into a fight. So, I'm guessing because I have friends in my life who are Mayo haters. Yeah. And so this is right. Okay, so it's just if someone kind of, I don't know like as a joke or something put mayo on your sandwich and made you so angry. You swung on them and yeah, I'd probably would be upset and I'd be like, you know, you gotta buy me in your sandwich because I'm Not eating this shit well, so they get into that fight at the bar. And then, solberg's, like screw you, I'm leaving. So he starts walking to the cafe and Urlacher the one who started everything by the way, calls, solberg's, half, brother Craig and it's just like, you better deal with your brother. I'm gonna set his house on fire and I'm going to shoot him. So they go to another, he went to another like Barb called Dave's old home and they got into like that's the cafe / like Lounge, please.

5:11 And that's when I guess he kind of like coax them outside for another fight and then got in his car and just random over, huh? Well actually before that happened, he hit his car. Into Craig priors. That was the brother-in-law who had come to help. So the brother and not brother-in-law, right? So he hit the brother's car and then, you know, invited the two of them for a fight, then he hit Solberg and sober came out. Like, what the hell? You just hurt my brother? Or I'm he just hit his car but still that's real, a grub.

5:51 Yeah, and now that Solberg was outside. He hit him with the truck but that didn't kill him. It was the other two hits he might have survived, had he not come back and hit him again and he just said that he had backed over him, make sure. And so at that point, he would have just been arrested for attempted murder. But the essentially, the judge was like, the rather than just leave you went down the street. Turnaround came back that are multiple times to make sure you've completed the job. Yeah, yeah, so he was convicted after a bench trial in December of 2021 and he was sentenced to life in prison as of February 3rd. All because of a prank that you started and you couldn't let it go.

6:45 No. Oh my God. That's terrible. Wild. I was like Mayo. I have lots of people in my life who hate condiments. I'm just like if someone is so just spreading me over my first of all, I'd gag like that and then and then I killed Bobby to see which, like, or meet you. a food ever, you have God. Also folks, hoping for a visual podcast episode, I'm having a bad week because a pet is dying and I am not in a place to get pretty today.

7:26 So it's only audio this week. But what's your story? Okay, goddamnit. Brittany. What you don't think that Mayo? Murders are funny. Actually know I might make a tick tock and call it the mail. Merge. My God. No, it's funny. It's nothing. Anyway. So okay I couldn't pick this week so I have like two different stories. Okay no you can't do that. I got two different. Okay well they're both from Pennsylvania and love we Pennsylvania news and they're both they both involve animals. Okay, so the first one I'm just going to it's going to be quick.

8:08 So it maybe I just do the one because I like it. Let's see, let's see. So some some woman in Pennsylvania, she found some type of mystery animal, this is in Pittsburgh and I guess what happened was Is that you know goodness gracious. Sorry, she found his like this animal like wandering around or something like that. And like she'd. So she brings him and you know, blah blah blah. Washes up and and, you know, take care of it and she's like, she calls an animal shelter in the, you know, and people are just like in the people are coming to come, you know, pick it up here like What kind of animal is this? And she's like, I think it's a dog. I saw this one.

9:04 Did you? Nobody knows? It is right? Yeah. It's, it's, it looks like it has kind of like the face of a dog but like that body. It just looks like, I don't know. Maybe it's a shave dog or something. I don't know. The new story was that someone found the animal and nobody would have knows what it is. Yeah, nobody knows what it is. It's a mystery animal. That's funny. Yeah, it like like, it looks like it might be of the caninus genus, but it doesn't look like a dog. It doesn't look like a dog. Like, did you see the picture of it? I'm passing.

9:45 Okay, it looks it kind of looks like a coyote a little bit. And like, it's weird because I guess when she said, when she found, it was like, oh, whimpering and stuff. Look all sad and blah, blah, blah. I'm like, you know, I forget who, which animal it is like, which canine it is. I think it's coyotes. They eat like they like to trick people. Okay. If we, I didn't know that is they they like the trick. I think it's coyotes. I like to trick people in so they can like get closer to them and then it rip out their throats and it's like they attack their small dogs, if they have dogs around the attack those and it's just I forget I think I think it was Sarah's dad who told me that I think it was I talked to him about it and yeah it was and I mean that sounds like it just sounds like ten pretending you're injured so that animal thinks you're weak and then When do you usually come sounds?

10:53 It sounds pretty smart, actually. We did just spend two weeks talking about Bundy, pretending to be injured to get people to come over and help him. Mmm. Is it true? Oh, so I just read that it is escaped escaped. What is Kate from the rescues, facility? Wow, I don't know. It's an industry. Like the mysterious mystery animal whose out elaborate escape from Pennsylvania rescue facility. Wow, I didn't realize it's happening. Yeah. Yeah, it happened. The news. I got was from Pittsburgh, I think. it's A good little guy. Yes, he'll be free baby.

11:38 So these are you could like a DNA from him but like they could write. That was what I remember they couldn't. There was no DNA match for something. We knew what it was. Yeah and you know I guess they go to check on him one day and he said gone. Because because they were kindly calling is like a Cryptid now, is like the new Krypton. That's wonderful. You should be so happy. That's your thing. I know. That's why I was talk. I want to talk about it because I was like yo what if we have our new little coyote Cryptid? Now listen this is now our New Jersey Devil, Dog.

12:19 Awesome. I love it. Only this one doesn't People it just wants to be left alone. Yeah, like every other animal I'm assuming we're Cryptid. But yeah. Okay. Well that's what I got. I like that. I like this one that I could just, I like that one. I'll stick with this one but but oh, also, I guess news alert if you're in Danville, there might be like a couple of monkeys like loose in the area that may have like, herpes. I think it's herpes too. Oh no, ya don't touch the monkeys and Danville and I was just up there. The other day and I heard about this the other day I was like I was just up there because there's a car at there's a, I guess, a truck accident and they were holding the monkeys and it just went off the road and yeah. Monkeys were killed and then some monkeys got away so there yeah he's in the woods in the north so just be careful. Yep.

13:22 I think they might freeze to death. Yeah, yeah that's true. That's what they're thinking too. Well, okay, so here's the thing. I had planned out killer couples a little while ago, and I completely forgot when February started, so that's why we're starting in the second week of February. That Godless. this week's episode is about one of the worst Duo's we've ever discussed and they were from the UK, they raped tortured and killed at least 12 young women over the course of 20 years in gloucestershire England, Well, to be fair, Fred started in 1967 but his wife didn't start until 1973 outside of the Moors murders.

14:23 They're probably the most infamous couple in UK history, and I talked about the wife of this Duo. When I talked about the Moors murders with Myra hindley, Hinckley, because Rosemary was and Myra were in the same hospital and according to a documentary in 2020, apparently, the two had a relationship. They Seen as like prison royalty and now they actively hate each other and have the relationships over. That's according to the documentary. But for the weak of stomach, I totally understand if this is too much for anyone listening because this is very similar to the Moors murders episode.

15:07 It strange that those two women would end up in the same prison because they did the same thing to young people. But we're going to start with the older of our killers and really the one who started things Fred West, so, Frederic Walter, Stephen West was born, September 29th, 19, 18, 19, 41, and Hereford should perish of much Markle, which is for my non-uk this year. It's about two and a half hours, west of London, because most of us in the states, don't know anything other than like that. At the time, much Mark will only had about 700 people living in it.

15:48 And that was about two years. Before I was born this time periods, really important because it does anybody. Remember what happened in 1939. No, I suck with dates. That's okay. World War Two, which greatly affected? All of England. Starting 1939 and went to 1945. So he was born in the middle of this conflict. In fact, the most exciting thing that happened before the world learned of Fred West. In a much Markle, was a landslide that happened in 1575 Very small town. It's a beautiful. Apparently, a beautiful place to go to these like huge giant Green Pastures, core Fields, Orchards full, apples, and pear trees. Hops fields for making beer, nice place to go live. If you weren't there when, Fred West was there, Now, his parents Walter Steven and Daisy Hannah met in 1939. Just before the great second war started, Walter left school at 11 to work on his family's Farm, which have been doing for decades.

16:57 He was recently widowed and just attending a fair, the Marco fair to raise his spirits. When he met Daisy, she was 16 and he was 25. They had a nice day at the fair board for a bit and then got married, January 27th, 1942 you got pregnant pretty fast but she lost the Maybe filing 1840. Fred was our second child and the first to live to term and both of them were very excited. This baby was like they're shining Joy. Daisy was known to like not let him sleep in his crib and she would bring as she called him, Freddy back into their bed to sleep with the parents. Now, quite jogging lie, even with how bad things were financially during and after World War Two and the UK Walter Daisy went on to have six more children, five survived.

17:47 So, it'd be a total of fried John Daisy, Douglas Kitty and okay. Now, when the farm when they were still running the farm, they were keeping animals. But eventually they had to sell all of that just to survive. Because there were a lot of just For everything was more expensive during award kind of like what we're going through right now in the US. One of the biggest issues and piecing together, friends, history, is that once he got caught, he began telling people in astonishing detail that he had been abused and assaulted and harm and his family was like, no, no, that didn't happen.

18:30 And it looked like he went real into detail about some real horrible stuff so I'll start by telling you the truth is we know II then I'll let you in on the world from Friends Eyes. One thing we know is that the family was super close. Dad was strict. Mom was very overprotective to the tune of like nobody can keep till they're 21. That kind of thing which is weird because she got married and dated when she was 16 but whatever, you know, I guess it's like a I don't don't follow in my footsteps kind of thing I guess. Now. In 1946, the family moved into pretty much there forever, come called, more Court Cottage on more cart Farm.

19:13 The farm was owned by Walters boss, Frank Brooks and Walters job was milking the animals that down time helping with the Harvest in the fall, even though it was called the cottage. It was just a regular house and it wasn't a really big one because they were a family of eight with only three bedrooms. There was no indoor plumbing, the family went in a bucket and that bucket was dumped in a sewage pit, every morning. They took baths in a big tin Basin. Once a week rats were constant issue and frequently. Mom, Daisy would grab Dad shotgun and shoot them when she saw them in the fields. This was something the children kind of remembered almost fondly. Mom shooting the racks friends easily, his mother's favorite.

19:57 As I said, he was a rainbow baby, he was Untouchable if he got in the fight with his siblings. She took a side, even in front of her husband, Daisy. Favorite fried, and because of his constant spoiling, Fred was really introverted shy, and well, kind of boring which didn't help him in school. He was also the dirty kid. You know what kid, I'm talking about that kid at school, who's always kind of dirty. And you wonder Is he being taken care of? Yeah, and I know the kid. Well, here's the thing. Daisy bought him. The nicest clothes out of all the other kids, but he always came home soiled and I'm sure she was just like, what are you doing? It's cool.

20:39 Well, I'll tell you Fred was a terrible student, and he got bad scores all the time. So people made fun of him for being stupid, they made fun of him for being dirty. His school believed in spanking kids. So at 8 years old, when he would get bad grades, he would get caned, then he would go home and tell his mom. And in the beginning, Daisy would go down to the school and she would get into arguments with the teachers about his scores and the punishment. And so it became a thing where like Daisy would show up in these like big like flower dresses and she would, like, yell at the teachers and that did not at all help. The bullying, they kids saw him as like a mama's boy, they made fun of him for that.

21:26 So one of the reasons why he was getting real dirty is because he's getting into a lot of fights. And then on top of that Daisy, kind of well she stopped going out of the school. In fact, she kind of Began to resent the fact that Fred just wasn't very bright. Now, outside of school, the kids were expected to work on the farm. After school every weekend, this was how they kind of earned their pocket. Change household. Chores did not get the many, many different times. A year is a different thing. Summer was picking Fruit, Harvest was the Harvest but also rabbit hunting season because apparently the rabbits were outrageous in the entire town. So this became like a town thing and pretty much they all went out killed a bunch of rabbits and then they shared the meat across the community.

22:12 Winter allowed for more fun, for the kids sledding playing in the snow spring. Of course was planting time. Fred really only had his siblings for friends and the cottage was actually kind of on the edge of town, so he wasn't like around a lot of kids that, like, you know, played outside like they used to do, they were sort of isolated from the rest of the village. Now, here's where the two stories, just forked in dramatic ways, Fred says that his doting, mother was his first sexual experience, incest was common in the west home. Fred said the same thing that Happened when he was a kid as what he did in his own home.

22:54 He said that Daisy took the boys and Walter took the girls. This, of course, is not been corroborated by anyone in the family, but a lot of people in town thought that Daisy was really close to her son. Fred also told the police when he got caught later on in his 40s that his dad was very into bestiality. Wow. Damn. now, outside of that Freud said that his Experiences were sex, were very typical of the time. It happened in the fields around more Cottage, she called them, the fumbling sex games, which involve this is so wild because I've never heard of this in my life. Just a heads up. You know, we talk about sex as a roll in the hay. These kids were actually doing rolling and we're diving into the hay pile and touching anything and everything. My God, it was that he never he He said, he never bothered to learn the age or the identity of the girls who were in The hey vial with him.

23:54 But that it was excited. This isn't so fun and all Hayes like doesn't is Hast Not Crash. Yeah, he's not fun to play it. That's how I feel, but maybe not here. Either way. Couple years later, Fred decides he's going to leave school. He didn't even take his final exams. In the UK. They have like, Primary School, Secondary School University. Secondary doesn't quite line up with, like, high school for us, but generally, it's kind of where you make a decision. Am I gonna go to college? Am I gonna go to trade school? And then, if you're going to go to trade school, you could go to a special school that helps you. that we used to have that in the u.s. now we don't Which allowed kids to learn trades and stuff.

24:42 And then if you thought you were heading towards more of a university experience, you would go to official Secondary School versus trade school, regardless. He didn't even really finish primary school, he didn't even take his final exams at the end of what we would call, like Middle School, just like his dad for. I could barely write or read. The only thing he was exceptionally good at was Art and he could draw these like Photo realistic things. Just by looking at them, he had actually taken a woodshop glass on a whim right before he left school, and he learned that he was really good at it. He makes tools and benches and take them to his mom for her approval. And she thought they were nice, but Once he quit school, his mom was like, you didn't learn how to make anything out of that French and where poor baby did job.

25:29 Fred. Yeah, it sucks. Yeah, I gotta tell ya, British school system way cooler than ours. I believe it honestly, every country is way better than us. So much very true. I think it's so smart that they like start narrowing the kids interests as they get older because for us they just it's the whole time. It's like a broad liberal arts. Program, and then it's just like, all right, make your mind.

26:11 Now you're 18. And I'm like, well, if you'd been giving me time to look into this stuff, I could have learned. Maybe I don't with me, I want to be a doctor, but I don't really want to be a doctor because, you know, I got to take some extra science classes and I'm like, wow, this sucks but regardless either way for us to go to work, so he joined his dad on the more Court farm with their landlord, this pretty crappy work, And they pretty much gave Fred the crappiest jobs that nobody wants to. It was perfect for the grown-ups who were like, huh, we don't want to clean the Stalls for the horses. You do that? France at the highlight of his day at Bridges Farm, which is one of the other firms that he worked at with the men. Was that a lot of young local girls walked by and he would just stand there and watch them on a job school. Oh God.

27:02 Yeah, that 1957 was probably 16. His younger brother John 15, quit school joined them on the farm working which is the same year where Walter was trying to fix a chapter and it fell on him, it actually permanently ruptured, one of dad's lungs And he probably would have died had his sons, not been there and picked it up enough, and we're talking like maybe a few inches for him to get out from under it. Walter is now severely limited in what he can do. He still working but he also spends a lot of time at home just resting. He's not as strict with the boys. So they now spend their weekends in the nearby town of ledbury, which hasn't movie theater and coffee shops. There was this place called the ledbury youth club and wasn't much to look at.

27:55 It was really rundown have busted windows, kids played loud music and they constantly got reported. But the thing was, they weren't even doing drugs. They were just drinking coffee and soda and playing pool. We receive them know they were inside of a building. Oh, it was an old building but It was kind of run-down but like as far as places where teenagers hang out, they weren't getting into trouble. So it's better than nothing. True, true, well at 16. Well, going to the club, Brett starts dressing better, he would shave and he would comb his hair and wear clean clothes and he became like one of the better looking young boys at the club which should have helped him with the whole girl thing buddy. Did Because he was very rude and very crude. He would just go up to a girl grabbed her by the arm and dragged her over to the Shadows.

28:52 He didn't care if she liked him or if she had a boyfriend. In fact he liked it better when she had a boyfriend because he wanted this dealer. Which, of course, started fights, and John would step in and defend his brother. Now during this time, you know, for its work in and he's making a man's wage. So the little he gave a little bit to his family, but he starts saving up for a motorcycle. His mother hated the idea, so she made him promise, if you have a crash at all, you have to sell it. He agrees and on his 17th birthday, he gets his motorcycle. He used it to show off immediately he park it outside the club and walk in on November 28, 1968 while riding home. What do you think happens?

29:42 He had a crash you. Damn right. He collided with a girl who was on a bicycle and was heading home. The road was completely dark and there were a lot of potholes so maybe it wasn't his fault. They both went flying off their vehicles. A day laborer from Bridges, Farm actually left to go home and found both the teens lying in the dark, the girl had scrapes and he was able to kind of like, wake her up and be like, hey you. All right. Friday is bleeding profusely out cold. They have to get an ambulance, the ambulance, assesses him, and they go. We can't handle him at the local small hospital. They need to go.

30:22 They just sent him to Hereford. So, one of Fred's Friends shows up in the morning and Moorpark Cottage was like his work boots and his like broken helmet and gives them to his family and they're like, yeah, he's in the big city Hospital. Oh my God, Jay Z goes to the hospital in tiers and actually Walter goes over to the girl's family to apologize for a friend. As I think Walter was like, this was probably your fault. Let me go say something to their parents. Now if I was unconscious for week, he describe this experience. As coming back from the dead on top of hitting his head. He was covered in bruises and cuts broken bones.

31:05 He told people for the rest of his life, there was a metal plate in his head, one of his arms, never healed properly, his nose at gotten broken and one of his legs. He the mental a metal brace. That even after the metal cast came off, he walked with a limp. Now while he's recovering, we're talking here like months. He's got to stay in the house. House. And it's driving him crazy. Having Daisy. Just don't over him the entire time. So as soon as he is safe to get out, He's like, I got to leave. I got my boy. That would be what he needs. That's right.

31:46 Or his future wife. Catherine Brenna Bernadette Estella Brandon was from cos Scotland and 16 in 1960 when I was also a bit of a bad girl and she was often in trouble with the law she could get arrested since she was 11 years old. And in 1960, she moved to live with her family in England because her family in Scotland, hoped that maybe a change of scenery would help. Ah, Fred seeing her out about tried to woo her with allies about how bad boy, how bad of a boy. He was, but truly, what bonded this couple was that she found friends. Crude sexual interest to be a sign of affection.

32:29 She hadn't had a lot of affection for life. That's just, that's just sounds weird what I mean? Right? So what normally turn the other girls off like him? Make him like nasty little sex jokes. Yeah, she wasn't bothered by that. She was like wow he likes me. Oh, how so Charming? Oh my God. But you started having sex things, got real intense. So the point where she tattooed Fred's name on her, after months of her family in England, being like, can you not? They were like, you know what, go back to Scotland, Run a So she had to move back home. Get your head together, right.

33:15 During this time, Fred started showing interest in the younger, girls in the city and then one night when he was at the club, He was on the outdoor, like step, scaffolding thing, he grabbed the wrong girl, because she turned around and popped him, he lost his balance and fell 20 feet to the ground, am sustaining his second major head injury and under two years. How are you not dead buddy or at least in the hospital? Well, he came out of this coma and just 24 hours but he came out of it angry and irritable and he would lash out very quickly and for the first time people were like just he have some kind of yes yes he does. Fried also like after this just started doing some outright illegal stuff and he went to court for stealing in April 1961 for stealing a gold watch strap and to cigarette cases with another boy, then in June.

34:14 Of 61 now. Mind you I'm going to say this rhino left, like Christmas like before. Like we're Before Christmas in 60. Okay. Hmm. They pull cried in front of the court. This time for a much worse reason, having sex with a 13 year old girl and have been going on for about six months. Oh my God. Wait she left him, wait a second. So she laughed and he started having sex with the 13th as well. See this mathy math and as soon as she left, oh God. Well, the other issue now, this, this trial goes absolutely crazy. First, the issue is that the girl is Fred sister katiewest. Mmm, that's younger.

35:04 Sister. Also Fred yelled at the Constable during his trial, and he was completely nonchalant about it. And, in fact, Fred's mom super upset because it's a sister police. The school social workers, get involved. And when they interview Fred, he's like, I've been doing this for years and then He legit goes, doesn't ever go to do this? You didn't seem to care at all as they arrest him for carnal, knowledge of a child. No sir, not. Everybody does this a small tiny minority does and we don't we don't accept that.

35:46 Well, we have the issue that now he has this charge against him because the when they first poem in front of court, it's just, you know, figuring things out asking questions this time though. They're like, oh, so they charged him with carnal knowledge of a child. He's going to get fined bare minimum but he's probably going to be worse and then days, he's like, you can't stay with us anymore. And this is the moment where Frank felt like his family abandoned him, because nobody else would talk to him, Kitty ended up having an abortion, they set an official trial for November of 1961. Fried quit the farm and goes to work in construction, got caught and find for stealing their, he was getting into constant trouble with women in town. Another girl, claimed that Fred raped her, but she wished to be nameless, November 1961, just after he turns, 20 years old, his trial begins Katie refuses to testify against him, but strangely enough Daisy agrees to be his defense Witness She discussed with the defense attorney, the multiple head injuries, and the port of fleas.

36:58 And with no evidence from Kitty a second, he moves into his aunt and uncle's house at. There's so many people in this story named Daisy. I'm just letting you know, roses mom is named. Daisy Fred's mom's name, Daisy, his aunt and uncle live a Daisy Cottage, currently Daisy, real popular name, and the 60s. Everybody's everybody? And everything is Daisy. Got it. Everybody was Daisy. After about a year of him, kind of being, I guess. Like What do you call that? I do. I want to see isolated but ousted from his family, maybe invite him back to more Court, cottage summer of 1962 and that same summer.

37:38 His old girlfriend, run a custo on those back to town. They ran into each other at her job at a cafe and Library Brenna had gone back to her old life of crime. And while she was gone, she got him convicted of attempted burglary at 16 and served 17 months in the prison kid prison. Regardless she was real. Least in May of 1962 which was when she had an affair with an Asian man, who was a bus driver got pregnant. And when she realized he wasn't going to stay with her, she came back to England. Fred win her back but he didn't really want her mixed-race baby. So he was like why you let me abortive abort this baby? So we can save money and they actually brought like another kid who got freaked out and like told the police and the police arrive before he could do anything.

38:27 Okay, great. And my opinion before he could probably murder her accidentally. Instead, they got married, they pretty much waited long enough for Fred to turn 21, which was the age of majority in the UK and they got married in secret. Number 17, 1962, Brenna wore blue. Her hair was bleached white. Fred wore a suit jacket that was too big for them. And their only guest was younger brother, John to be there with us. Same day, Daisy found out because John can't keep a secret. She wasn't really excited about it but Walter was like he's grown leave him alone. And and so she's like fine!

39:09 Y'all two can stay at the cottage for a few nights after the wedding. It was still super packed though so they can't. They packed up their stuff after a couple nights moved into a small flat in the city of coke bridge. And I hope by now with all of us watching International TV, we know that a flat is an apartment. This marriage, not so good. Fred was the same as they were when he, when they were teens, he wanted sex at random times. It was super rough. Bang, bang, bang. He's done. Run at old friends and even though they were married, it felt like she was being raped when she was like when she was a teen prostitute in Scotland and homeless.

39:51 Yeah, Fred enjoyed making her cry. He would like pinched her really hard to hear her scream. He wanted to tie her up but she was like, absolutely not. Years later, he bragged about saying that he was the one who got her working as a prostitute again. And that she would leave a girl in his bed for him. While she was out working and that he made lots and lots of money being her pain. Which is really weird because apparently he likes that she did it. But he got jealous and angry that she was sitting with other men and Punisher Yeah, it's no surprise. He was abusive. Yeah, he hit her at the slightest annoyance. Now March 22nd 1963.

40:35 Mark Rena has her baby girl. No one knew about this other than Fred. So people were very surprised to see this baby with very obvious Asian features. Rhino was worried about the West family. So she told them that she miscarried and I've had been Asian child in the hospital and need of a home and they adopted her, and they named her sure me. Carol Mary Mary was run as mostly just like that, but in a daze. Yeah huh, just like that. Huh. Yeah. We just started a new baby. Thank the letter to Daisy, was probably Fred's idea because he was embarrassed that she had given birth to another man's child. Bride did not like this baby that you Actually separated after they she gave birth.

41:21 But by Christmas 63, they were back together. Visiting more Court Cottage. Fred was bragging about how much money he was making. He wore silk shirt talked, to himself up that he was pretty much a drug dealer and a pimp. The reality was that they had moved to Glasgow Scotland to try and make the relationship work and Fred worked for mr. Whippy ice cream and he drove an ice cream truck in the good weather and then he'd sell cigarettes and drinks and chips when it got cold. So that is what he was doing. He was not a big-time pimp or drug dealer like he pretend he's a scream Hint. It was an ice cream.

42:07 Regardless, they go back to Glasgow after Christmas and in 1964 Runner gets pregnant and has another baby. This baby was named Anna Marie. Fried was obsessed with this child, who looked exactly like him and he treated Charmaine like she was garbage. The family ended up moving to McClellan Street and you're kidding Park and Fred was said to have a lot of tryst with women in Glasgow, and many years later, he straight-up told people. I don't know how many of my kids are in Scotland. Damn, right. I learned about this and decided, since he was being awful, she could be terrible to. So, she started dating another guy Fred caught her with this guy, his name was John McLaughlin, and even though he punched her, Like, when he pulled her away from John, this did not stop. And in fact, John tattooed her name on his wrist took a tattoo gun crossed Fred's name out and wrote his own. Now, Fred internalized, this rage. And I think this is really interesting. So, remember that accident where he ran directly into a girl, he was a child, right, well, 1965.

43:22 He runs a strain to a three-year-old. In his van, his work van apparently, at the time, accidents with kids, in Vans were very high. I think you remember that, like, in the 90s in the States because of SUVs and how high they were people kept rolling over their kids. So that's why they put all those cameras on there or the sounds that when you were close to something with you didn't eat. So I guess they're making the comparison. Like what happened here in the states in the 90s that was happening in the 60s. Like people can't see because these buffers are so high, it was an accident. It gets cleared by the police, but the locals are like you kill the kid. So they move back to March Markle.

44:04 And back in with his parents. Now, there are 11 adults and five kids in the house because some of his siblings had got married and had kids to God. They were like Fred had no money so Brenda actually traveled back to Scotland for work well Fred tried to get a job in England. Their relationship just got worse back in Scotland, Run it and John get closer. And at one point when I came back, too much Marco and tried to take her kids back with her for friends. Wouldn't know Fred wouldn't allow it, he even punched McLaughlin, but like, sorry fraction like this was a fight that happened in front of the house, right? Friday is holding onto Charmaine like Like vice grip in his arm, McLaughlin punches him, but he still won't let go and he straight up tells Rena. If you come back here, I'm gonna kill you sometimes, while in much Marco, he meets a girl named Anna McDowell and pretty much, I'm gonna be really honest. He used Anna for sex and to watch his kids for Anna. She thought she was alone.

45:09 She wrote her family, these like long letters and interestingly enough after Franklin. Scott, he said that Anna was his first and only love but he sure didn't treat her very well. Like pretty like they lived in. Okay? This is really so the UK word for this is a caravan or Caravan town. It's kind of the equivalent of like an RV town or like a Yeah, I would say more like RV camp versus a trailer park because the cars things can move regardless okay kind of like a trailer parks last RV camp regardless though that's where friends living in this Caravan community. And in a 16 and pretty much trying to take care of Fred's two kids, it's not the best situation in 1966 run a comes back for her children.

46:01 She had asked people to come with her but everybody was busy. She picked up her kids from Anna, went to a different Caravan Park to get away from him, and Well, this is the moment when Runner realized that one of her friends, Anna, it was dating her husband. Yeah. When she went to Fred's place and saw Anna staying there, Like I said in a 16-0 run us a little older but I guess they knew each other regardless Rena gets kind of angry and she steals some of Anna's things in spite and left and went back to Scotland where the police rested her and November of my 30 1966 and she was convicted November 29th, 1966, and give him probation because she pretty much like, bagged the court, please, don't leave my children with Fred. I don't know what he's gonna do to them. And pretty much, he's effectively homeless. So, they agree to allow her to not to essentially, like, hold her sentence.

47:08 She just gets probation, honestly. She only stole a couple of things like why you don't put this lady in jail, spring of 1967 Ana's pregnant. She's super happy. She tells her mom. We're going to get married. We moved into a nice house. All lies. Anna was last seen alive. July of 1967. She went missing from a Caribbean Camp called the Timberlands where they've been living bread denied, killing her until the day he died. Well, he did. However, meant was that he dismembered her and buried her and thank her post field and temporally near the village of much more coal remains. Yep. He says she just died and he chopped her up because it was easier to bury a body was chopped up that doesn't that sir that Is how the kids say.

47:55 Sus her remains were found on June 7th 1994. This is well, after the West, get caught and people start naming dumpsites. She was eight months pregnant when she died. Rena unaware of this lose back to England and to a different Caravan cap at the end of 1967 and somehow frag weasels his way back into her life and they start with a live together all through 1968, it worked because Fred was a day laborer and it was real hard work. I mean, pretty much that you're a day laborer or you're just showing up at a construction site in there.

48:38 Like, do this, do this, do this. He would be at work all day. He come home sleep, wake up, go to work. So he there was no time to be cruel to run out. Though, sometimes he would leave for work early and he would spend time and got cancer and just sit and like drink coffee at a cafe but you know, that's not the worst thing that could happen. Except for the fact that the cafe is where he met 15 year-old Mary Baskerville. Who went missing January 6 of 1968, lasting waiting at a bus stop on Bristol, Road, at 7:15 p.m. this was a major case, Scotland Yard was called in Scotland, Yard, big-time police for American Sissy a or anybody not really understand the UK.

49:25 But I mean, Scotland yard's a big deal. The problem was It's January and January is a time of bad weather. It pretty much proved to be a major deterrent in their search for her. Even though the police recognize that Fred was there and he was tied to raping a teen girl, they had no evidence linking the two of them other than he talk to her sometimes at the cafe. Her body has never been found, but it is assumed that bread was killed her something to do with it. Definitely few weeks later on February 6th, 1968 Daisy, West dies at 44 years old, after a surgery, the family at attends the funeral and afterward. Fred spirals you start stealing gets arrested for taking a blank check out of a house.

50:17 He was working on and buying a record player with the like the check. He's fine, he's let go from oldacre's Mill for stealing money, he worked emptying septic tanks and then it's a liver delivery driver for a bakery and at this bakery shop is where he would meet his future wife & Co killer rose West. Let's talk about Rose now. now Rose West was born Rosemary Pauline let's on November 29th, 1953 and Northam Devon England into a home full of just struggle Her Father, William also bill, that's and Daisy Gwendolyn. Let's both have mental health issues. Her father was schizophrenic, but he's hit it. And her mother was clinically depressed. In fact, while Rose was inside of her, she was given electroshock therapy and I had to look into this because it sounds real dangerous to me.

51:17 Yeah, but apparently this is considered the safer way to treat a pregnant woman with serious depression. Action. Since many medications have side effects that can harm a fetus. Like I was looking at like Johns Hopkins, like articles on this, apparently there's been a lot of research into it and there is a low chance that it'll hurt the child, like point four percent less than 1%. Regardless though, rose look, weird kid. And even when she was a baby, she did some weird stuff that made her family. Look at her kind of, I like, even when she was little and I like a stroller pram, she would rock back and forth, really aggressively, and it would slowly move across the room. They learn that.

52:02 This was a tech of hers, that she maintained as she grew up. She was a total like hate to use this word, but are head, like, she just had her heads in the clouds. Her neighbor said that sometimes she would walk down to like, The fence in front of the house and she would just be staring at the sky just had like completely and her own world. In fact, her siblings started calling her, do 0z because of this, and she would like sway in a way that meat, like, it was weird. She like fried, not a good student, mostly failing marks from the beginning of school. She was a moody Broody. And again, she just daydreaming, instead of doing a class work. She was number five of seven children and they were very poor.

52:51 But worse than being poor was that Bill. Let's was a whole monster. He was cruel. He gave up meetings for the simplest of stuff, and they were brutal to the point where Daisy would step in and he'd be Daisy and stack God. It wasn't uncommon for Daisy to just be seen walking around town with a black eye. And in fact, one day there was a fight that was so bad that the neighbors heard The neighbors heard it first and then saw as Bill dragged her down, the steps by her hair and like slapped her outside. No, in fact, they called the police on that one. Now, when Daisy wouldn't let him hit the children. She was like, no, give them a different punishment. He would just have them go out into the garden and day and he would just be like just dig dig until I'm not mad anymore. And then if he didn't like how they were digging, he'd have them.

53:44 The redo it. So, now what days was that is, let's say so filling that hole and it dig that back up. Yeah, pretty much. I'm like, that's the kind of stuff that they give like, prisoners. Now what Daisy didn't know was that bill was sexually abusing all of the daughters. At some point Rose realize that she can manipulate her father by using his deviance. To her Advantage, this allowed her to avoid the more horrible beatings and since she seemed more receptive to his advances, he began to prefer her to the other girls gross. Yeah. On top of bills constant beatings. He's a total Tyrant to make it.

54:26 Absolute obedience and no. Another do the children have to do their chores perfectly be perfectly behaved. They spent their time in the let's house. Just sitting in absolute silence watching for bills loose change. And despite their best. He find a reason to smack somebody into a wall or throwing down the steps. Daisy, definitely believe that bill got joy from hurting them. Now, it's believed that some of these tantrums were be related to his unmedicated schizophrenia, because he had never told anyone in his new family, about his illness gaze. He didn't even learn about it until he died. But on top of his mental illness, he was hiding and generally just being a terrible person.

55:08 He couldn't keep a job and that pissed him off and a couple just kept getting pregnant. And I'm like, here's the problem though. Bill, you can't be mad. Mad. You are actively participating in making your life harder. Yeah, he really hurt. Either way, the family moves, and Roses 13 and to the bishop cleave area. And she went to the Cleves school, she also went to the Rose Demerol school. People made fun of her for being stupid, but, and Bishop Cleve Rose. Became the bully. In fact, people are just like, roses not want to be fucked with her bully, extended to home and her younger siblings.

55:50 When Daisy took a job for extra money, Rose was the one who stayed. But the younger kids forcing them, to do her, chores and stealing things for her around town, Rose hit puberty. And she becomes wildly promiscuous. She also became an abuser herself touching her little brothers in their beds at night and she would also walk around them naked. Eventually, she didn't find this to be particularly satisfying, so instead she began seeking out Partners around age, bill is like new because of course, he views his 13 year old daughter. Like it's his girlfriend and he forbids her to go on dates. So Bruce just decides, she's gonna hide it from him and easiest way to do that is to date older. Men who had cars and apartments they wouldn't be C, of course, in some of these situations Rose ended up getting raped because she was just throwing herself at random older.

56:40 Guys. So when Rose was 14, Mary bash, John went missing. And despite everybody in town telling young girls, please be safe. Rose. Continue seeking out older. Man house. Finally, in 1969, daisies, tired of the abuse. She takes rose out of the home to one of roses older sisters. But Rose decides to move back in with Bill. She was 15 years old to say that Fred was an expert at grooming young girl. That's an understatement when he saw a rose at Cheltenham bus station, she was originally disgusted by him.

57:24 She thought he was homeless. He had hair. He had washed sideburns and all the way down to his shoulders Cuts all over him. He was just dirty and he had a country accent. Rose was not interested in this 27 year. Abu. He came back day after day, sat with her at the bus stop, talk to her showed her affection Brave. Little trinkets told her she was pretty When she when he asked her out, she told him now but she did say you could walk me home from the bus stop. When he figured out where she worked because he was a bakery delivery driver and she worked at a local Bread Bakery. He paid a woman to deliver a gift to Rose saying that the man outside gave this to you and she came outside and there was Fred and she agreed to go on a date with him that night when they met at a pub your house, he gave her a lace dress and a herc Oops.

58:19 What she was. Like this is way too much peace. Like regardless of what happens with us you can keep that. That is too much. What the hell? Yeah, he probably stole it. But Fred was the nicest person that Rose had really a nice to her and he was really happy to learn that rose out of her Jack when he may grow sex juice, she laughs and poured it back. That was not forget that. He's still married to run. Now he told Rose, he's been abandoned by his prostitute wife which made him sympathetic to Rose. Rose visited the Caravan to meet his children. Charmaine Hannah Murray.

59:01 Fred had found the perfect woman. Someone who loves sex and enjoyed taking care of kids in the past actually whenever he didn't have a girlfriend and watch his kids, he ended up taking the kids to Gloucester services and saying I can't raise children alone but he always came back and pick them up. Rose told her mother, she found a job cleaning a local widow's house and so that her mom didn't get suspicious Fred would pay her a couple Shillings every week. And then Brandon Lee, she brings him home. Her dad immediately knows what's going on here. He's like this, this is the guy who's paying hers or boyfriend.

59:45 He's like you can't see this old guy, he's 15, like 12 years older than you and Telling Rose. No had never really worked before. Mmm, Fred wasn't gonna let go because he finally found someone willing to let him do. Sadistic sex stuff with and Rose was like, I don't mind as long as you show me. Attention God. It's believed that Fred got her into escorting, her family found out about it in the summer of 1969. They put her in a home for troubled, teens, and she was only allowed to see her family or go to work. As soon as she earned enough, like capital in the house to have a weekend at home. She went directly to Fred's Caravan. They were and while she was there, they were sending these letters back and forth.

1:00:33 And this is kind of the moment where we realize that Rose is kind of spearheading their relationship and it's Pates. We're dad finds out, they are still together. He goes to Fred's job, begins screaming at him. Saying, I'm gonna cut you up into little pieces. If you don't leave my daughter alone, which is real ironic because friend had already done that to somebody else. Now, France having trouble paying off his fines he gets arrested again, but this time they put him in prison. And on November 28, 69 they take the kids, social services takes to kid again. However, the next day was roses 16th birthday and the house couldn't hold her after 16.

1:01:18 So her dad was pretty much like listen, if you ever see Fred. Again, I'm going to disown you. If you find a good job and dumped him, you can come to our house that caused a fight. That was big enough. That the cops were called and Social Services were called the police calmed it down and build thought that they had talked some sense into a rose. In fact, what Rose did was, she was like, fine, I'll stay here and then right before his 30-day lockup was over, she walked downstairs. With all of her stuff packed up. They go back to being together. Now that's November, right? So they stay together for like a month over Christmas time.

1:02:00 But Bill decides, he's going to call the police in January 1970 and tell them that his daughter is in danger. I don't know if the place didn't take this very seriously. But in February 21st. They bring in Rose and they're just like, are you in danger? Holy crap. You're pregnant. Because I think they were like not taking it very seriously. I mean this girl been seeing this guy at this point now for like years and that's why they were just like I will get to it when we get to it, you know. But they're like you're pregnant and you're underage, who's the dad? And she's like not telling Social Services tries to talk to her.

1:02:51 They actually pick her up and they hold her like a foster home for a couple weeks. They release her on March 6. And they're like go back to your family. She agreed, she get an abortion that did not happen. Rose went back to Fred's and bill was like you know what I'm done with this. Screw you Rose This started to happy. Family Rose, Fred Charmaine Annamarie and mystery baby. Oh my God, they moved to a new Caravan Community. That's closer to Fred's job as a day laborer. He'd gone back to working.

1:03:31 Rose didn't ask anyone for help but she was finding it very hard to handle two kids and be very bad name. Fred and said, said the girl's back to the Foster family run, it came back to town, meeting Fred's a 16 year old pregnant, girlfriend. However, when she talked to her as Rama thought that Rose seemed to be safe for her kids to be around by Wiki for that impression. I think at this point Rose just kind of came off as kind of a little touched. Okay. Yes, yes, she just seemed kind of simple and not like malicious. She would go on to be much worse, but at this moment, she's not doing anything really bad.

1:04:18 So in June of 1970, they move into a small house and Gloucester on Midland Road Bridge. Regular job didn't pay the bills. So he went back to a life of crime and October 17th 1970. Having West was born, And right after that for, I got busted for fraud. When he made a false order for tires, his 30-day sent had actually been a suspended sentence. So this time he was going back to jail to finish his six months. A 17 year old rules spent Christmas and New Year's alone with three children. Which is when she started beating them to keep them in line. Annamarie actually remembers being like five or six years old and Charmaine telling her are real.

1:05:04 Mommy's going to come back for us. But Anna Marie had had such a crazy life. She barely remembered who ran a was I mean these were pretty bad stuff. Like she got mad that they weren't like getting done eating fast enough. She grab the bowl and hit them with it. Like breaking a glass bowl over, a child's head and Charmaine was apparently a very strong little girl who told Anna, no matter what. Don't cry. Crying means Rose me. It's okay. Yeah, that's on March, 29th, 1971. Rose. Six remains of the hospital because of a strange puncture wound on her leg.

1:05:44 She said it was an accident. And since the small town didn't have a Social Services because member they move, no one reported it. But that was probably the first time that Rose had gone too far. Rosa Fred wrote letters back and forth over the six-month period. And they talked about, they talk to each other. Like, they were married Rose complained a lot about Charmaine, and those letters just before frog was to be released from prison Rose killed, Charmaine this happened between June 15th, and she brought two girls to visit him. And when he was released on June 24th, 1971, One day, Anna Marie, went to school and Charmaine didn't go with her. And then she was just gone, their neighbors even came to visit because they had a daughter. The same age and Rose just said, she's gone to live with her mother and bloody good brains.

1:06:37 Rose stored her body in the pool seller of their home. And when Fred got out of jail, he buried her at the back door of the building. She also wasn't found until 1994. Her remains were missing patella fingers, wrist, bones toes and ankle bones, which you're going to. This is consistent. All of the bodies that were going to talk about fairly soon. Or all missing these parts and they never found them and Fred never explained why he kept them. We're okay. Yeah. Now right, I came back to see her children in August of 1971 and she stopped at Fred's, parents house to ask, where he would be It's believed that run a confronted right at the house, on Midland was like where Charmaine.

1:07:23 So he agreed to take her to her, foster parents house, but instead strangled, her to death in his car, her remains were found dismembered a mile from Fred childhood home, and because of the tubing found with the remains, they think that she was tied up and potentially was assaulted before her death. No one even looked for Rena or reported him missing because people in Scotland just assumed that she had moved back in with Fred, And people in England assumed that she had gone back to Scotland. After the summer of murder. Fred and Rose were kind of bonded together, but I promised he would keep her secret. And she said, she would keep his but the stress and guilt kind of ate at Rose one day, she picked up Heather, and went back to her dad, and was just like, I need somewhere to stay at her, dad's, like you made your choice.

1:08:16 I wash my hands of you. And Fred actually showed up at the house to pick her up and Rose Point at him and said, you don't know him, there's nothing he wouldn't do even more. Murder. Yeah, I'm pretty sure he wouldn't murder. I'm pretty sure. I know that part. Her parents turn their heads and front of her home. She had been honest with that didn't matter her parents were like she's being dramatic. Rose looked at this as Bill and Daisy failing her again. Now, with Rena gone and a partner in crime, Frank and Mary Rose, and they did January 29th 1972, just the register's office and no one came Judge. John to be a witness to his brothers, second wedding. A few months later, the family and a now pregnant rules moved to Cromwell Street.

1:09:04 They stay there for a pretty long time, it was rented from the Town Council until Friday was able to buy it for that seven thousand Pounds, which is a little under 10,000 dollars which is not a lot for a three-bedroom home, but I'm going to tell you So I got three bedroom, three story home. In today's money that would have been a hundred two thousand pounds and 138 thousand dollars which to be fair is a steal. Yeah, I three-story house for only 138 thousand dollars, it's incredible. Yeah, that sounds Wonder UK folks. Is your real estate doing better than the us? Because we are dying over here.

1:09:45 Now to pay for the house, you actually converted the top two floors into like, what we would call it the rooming house. And he added a kitchen and a wash been on the first floor, so that he and his family didn't have to share with the strangers upstairs. With June of 72 comes the birth of May June. West on June first rose. Begins escorting again, right? Afterward to help pay for the house. Apparently on top of sex work Rose will also bed. Many of the people who rented from them. She was pretty much insatiable and friend was cool with it as long as he could watch. In fact, she had a room that they called roses room on the second floor and he drilled holes in the other room to watch her. While she had sex with customer.

1:10:38 and, The other Factor that's we're here. It's really interesting. This was good for Rose because she was actually getting the sex she wanted because even though Fred was into some real gross stuff, Rose said that he refused cunnilingus and he was creeped out by her period. And she thought that was odd because he was not creeped out by feces. Regardless, this is how that you have remained happily married, both of them banging everybody, they couldn't lock. Is stir-fried getting his jollies watching through that people also he was real into the fact that her clients were Jamaican and Indian which is wild because he didn't like his first wife some x-rays child.

1:11:24 Strangely racist. Yes and weird. Yes, regardless. No I told you he's definitely racist since Rose is bring in the big bucks. She was controlling all the money and Fred even gave her all of his money to make sure things were P, September of 1972, Annamarie. West, 8 years old, This is pretty rough. There's no way to explain this and not tell you that this is probably one of the worst explanations. And the reason why we have such a good explanation of this is because Anna Maria still alive. She said that Rosen, Fred let her is the seller, stripped her bound and gagged her Fred raped her afterward Rose, followed her to the bathroom and laughed in her and told her, I'm sorry, everybody that's to ever grow. It's a father's job, don't worry and don't say anything to anybody.

1:12:15 This goes on for the next. Five years, when she's 13, they force her to work as a prostitute out of the home. She lost she had the line to the client. She's 16. Rosewood actually, wait in the room during the appointments. This one on until Anna was 16, and we're away from home. So may was also sexually assaulted. She has written about her Time in the West home. And she also the house of hers, she mentions that she was raped by her. Uncle, John 5, Yeah, that brother and then later on by Friday she got older may also left the house at 16.

1:12:57 All of the West girls are raped by their parents. So was the older brother Stephen that started when he was 13 years old. The only children who seem to be absolved in this or three kids that Rose had out of wedlock with clients and I don't know if Fred just wasn't interested in them because they weren't his daughters. One of the girls her name was Tara actually feels that way. She's talked about that in the press and said that the reason why I wasn't sexually. So for this because Fred only wanted to rape his kids, Which is so fucking weird fucking wild, right is and the worst part about this, is the children were removed from their care until their youngest one of the youngest girls will be, he's was 13 and she told someone she was being raped for reference. Louise was born in 1978, which means the West children lived like this until 1991.

1:14:01 And I don't think they were removed until 92, so, and it wouldn't be 90. It wasn't. Until 1994 when the family was fingered for the 12 murders. But we're going to talk about those 12 murders because right about now the west of only killed four people. So back in our timeline, October of 1972, the family hired, Caroline always is, Caroline is referred to as the one who survived. Now she lived in the house for a couple nights and the promise was that, they would take her back to her parents house on Tuesday, so she could be with her family. Rose told her that she worked as a masseuse in a room in the upstairs and apparently fraud her fried told her he was a real good abortionist and that, you know, just in case you ever need my services which Caroline thought was very odd. Caroline said that the weirdness with them started with Fred talking about sex and non-stop, kind of, as a way to see if she was into things.

1:15:03 The thing is, what worked on Rose did not work on Carolina. In fact, she was just like listen at the end of the month I'm leaving. And you already paid me for the first part of the month, you know, for this for the month. So when the time you paid me for is over, I'm going. What happened next was that the couple decided they were going to abduct her on the highway leaving at home, but in actuality what happened? Was that on December 6, 1972? They put on the Waterworks, they apologize. We're so sorry. We made you feel uncomfortable. Will even take you back home to your parents. Carolyn thought? This was sincere. She packed up her stuff, but in their car, Immediately as they drove away, Rose started like touching her.

1:15:48 When Caroline tried to get away for a knocked her out. They bound and gagged her took her into the cellar. But you repeatedly assaulted her and be her when she was screened, she was almost strangled to death. So she realized she needed to be compliant. Then she tried to scream when neither of them were there, but Fred was in the house and one of the kids was there and fried told her that if she didn't shut up, he would let some of his black friends have their way with her and bury her with the 100 other young girls under the streets of Gloucester. I just love the Casual racism. It just got thrown in there.

1:16:29 Yeah, Roger you even have any black friends. I doubt it. I doubt it. This is terrible that went on for days. And then they calmly asked her. Well, you couldn't well, Caroline sees us as her Escape Plan and she's like, no, absolutely totally. She goes. Upstairs, starts cleaning the house, vacuuming and stuff. And then she and Rose go to a laundromat to wash the clothes. She takes off running and does the stop it. So she gets home. Told her mom, mom reports to the police Rosa Fred. Go to court for this is thought the salt on January. 1973 with Caroline was too scared to face them again and without the testimony the defense Twisted, the story until it seems like she and asked for and she wanted this couple to her, it couldn't hold the West for the assault charge and so they were able to plead down to indecent assault and causing actual bodily harm was a 50-pound fine with no jail time. Caroline heard the news.

1:17:38 She tried to kill herself. She's doing a lot better now. She also wrote about this experience as a way to kind of release it from her system. Just three months after that trial. They are back at it again. This time having learn from the mistake. Don't let the girl go killer their victim was Linda. Go a 19 year old woman who actually she had been visiting one of the men who rented a room upstairs and had a couple of down with a couple of those guys. This was a sign for Fred that Linda might be a, you know, game for their sexual perversions. They offer her a job as a nanny. She told her family, she she was moving into a flat in the city and her parents didn't like it at all.

1:18:21 But on April 19th, just two weeks before her 20th birthday and his mom came home. She all of Linda's stuff gone. And a letter being like, listen, I'll be back around to see you soon or parents assume she just needed some space but she never came home. Now, Linda was okay with it from Stones, which was what they had. Proposed in reality, they tortured her until she died and buried her under their home, in the inspection pit, in the garage behind the house. Despite there being more than enough room to bury this body, he cut her into pieces which is not a lot of people to believe that he got a little thrill from chopping people up.

1:19:06 It sounds like it. When does Mom began looking for her? The West said, oh, she did watch her kids for a little bit, but she hit one of them and we fired her. Charlie and Cooper was the next victim November 10th 1973. She went to the movies with her friends and she was last seen getting on a bus at 9. We don't know a lot about Carol, but it's safe to say they more than likely tortured. Her just like they did the others. She was dismembered buried in the cellar when Carol was reported missing. The westward even suspects. They were never seen with her. sometime between December of 1973 and January of 1974, the killed Lucy Parkington Lucy was actually, a really affluent girl, who was the cousin of an English novelist?

1:19:56 She just finished, her secondary education, she was enrolled in Exeter University, she had been traveling home to her family in Cheltenham. While at home she went to see a friend of December 27th. And she was last seen fleeing to catch a bus home. She was reported missing right away but there was no connection to the West. So, while the world was searching for her, she was being tortured for probably weeks. in fact, Fred accidentally cut himself while dismembering her, which is why they had a almost picture of what kind of knife would have been used for it, so that when her remains were found two decades later, they were able to compare And it was the same knife used to chop a balla bodies, April of 74, brings her next victim, 21 year old Teresa sick and Thaller a well-off educated lady from Switzerland.

1:20:53 Teresa was a bit rebellious and instead of going to secondary school she told her parents. She was gonna go to secretarial school and then she was attending me what, which college of further education in London just before Easter and 74. She decided to hitchhike to Ireland when she failed to return. Holmes before classes. She was reported missing on April 26, 1974. In November of 1974, they kidnap, surely Hubbard, Shirley was 15. She worked at a grocery store and wish Worcester Remember 14th. Yes, we're only laughing because this is one of the ones that I looked up and still struggle to sing.

1:21:35 It's Worcester. On November 14th, she left her job to head home. She was never heard from again. Her remains were found until 20 years later. And what they did find in 94, was that Shirley was a marked sign of an increase in the couple's. Torture, her head was covered in like duct tape, and they had inserted plastic tubes into her nose to breathe. They were now doing like, forced BDSM. Now things slow down as far as the insults go in April of 1975, the next murder was kind of important because Juanita Mott ended their string of stranger pickups and this seems kind of stupid because they were moving from this person doesn't know us to this person knows us but the people who often needed a room in the west house where usually people on the Run running from home estranged from family and that made them good victim because nobody was looking for them.

1:22:36 And now they didn't have to risk going out on the highway or the bus stops to pick someone up because their victims were staying at their house. Juanita was the daughter of an American Service family which I'm assuming is military. She was a rebellious teen had dropped out of school at 15 run away from home. She lived with another run away, but left on April 11th 1975. And she said, she'd be back the next day when she didn't come back, her friend actually contacted her parents, and they filed a missing persons report. She stopped by the West to write a room and took her to the cellar where she being tied up without her consent. They actually found on her remains. It's a mess of very complicated knots all over her and she had been gagged She was the last to be buried under the cellar.

1:23:25 After this Brad we cemented the entire Cellar, turned it into a basement bedroom, for one of the children. And the to stop killing altar 76 and 77 row Center business. Seen clients running pretty much a tiny brothel out of one of the upstairs bedrooms according to Rose her father Bill even showed up to be a client as did the Gloucester Police, which of course, they have denied. Mmm-hmm Rose, gave birth to a mixed-race daughter Tara at the end of 1977. The rest of the kids kept the house clean and were assaulted by their parents as part of their daily lives.

1:24:07 I think during this time, the reason why they didn't have any kills was that Fred was revamping the upstairs rooms, Because right after the remodeling was done, they went back to murder. Shirley Robinson was their next victim in April of 1978. She was a prostitute and teen runaway who need a place to stay, she agreed to work in roses little brothel to live there what she did for months. And when the West approached her for sex, she didn't say, no. And she got pregnant. We aren't really sure why they decided suddenly kill her. Maybe they got tired of the fact that Shirley consented Some people think it was because Rose was jealous that front lecture. As usual fried dismembered her.

1:24:57 And since the basement was paved over now she was buried in their backyard. Their daughter. Louise. Born November 1978 and Rose's. Father also dies 17 may have 79 for a long infection. Next victim was Allison Jean Chambers. She was a young girl. She was working at the you training scheme for City solicitors and was in a home for troubled. Girls, Ryan for you. A solicitor's kind of like a lawyer but this one worked for the city. I'll send was last seen on August 1979, she'd been doing well at the home but it wasn't uncommon for girls to run away so they didn't really look for her. They just told her parents.

1:25:44 The West had actually offered her Freedom, one of Alison's friends would tell the police, that the West kind of offer them the chance to be a part of a family. And then after a few weeks, things would get creepy for I would become overly sexual. He talked about his Kinks to see if you were into it. Allison's friend, was like, I can see the writing on the walls here, they're going to ask me to have sex to stay with them. I'm Gonna Leave. Okay, I'm gonna head out. Yeah, well Allison didn't leave. And she became my mother. She would later. Be found in their backyard. R8 years pass. Rose gives birth to three more times, to more racial children.

1:26:28 And one final one to Fred making the total of kids in this house, Heather Anne made you the Stephen Tara, Barry, Louise Rosemary and Luciana. Yes, you did named one of her daughter's after herself. Like I said before, fried did not rape the children who are not his biological kids. And the thing is, even though it was happening to all of them, they were in survival mode and they didn't speak up because they were scared that they would be next friends, oldest child, and half daughter to wrote stepdaughter to Rose, Annamarie. Got it worse in 1979, she got pregnant, it was ectopic. So it had to be terminated. That would have most definitely been from Fred. As she was only 15.

1:27:14 Also, it was like, who's his dad? She would not answer. And in fact after that, she moved out and December of 1979. It was like the first boyfriend, she could find. Her parents didn't seem to care. They still had Heather, and makes him the last. And Stephen who was being sexually assaulted by Rose. They Rose continue to beat them. Pretty much becoming her. Father, it would be 31 hospital visits over the next eight years. Heather. Had never really been a willing participant, some of the kids.

1:27:55 They've, I like ice cream for candies a little ones to be quiet, but she would fight fry. And he actually called her a lesbian because she fought him when he tried to rape her. They beat her to try and break her. She never made it easy for him. It's gonna be touched by any more raped motherfucker. It was this fighting spirit that probably out of troubles. Bright originally admitted to killing his daughter. But later blamed it on rose that your neighbors. Do remember Rose? And Heather having a pretty horrible fight. Heather. It actually told a friend about her father's abuse and the girl I told her parents but those parents were friends with the west and didn't believe it.

1:28:40 Some people think she was killed because she told which means she knows she broke the family loyalty others because she fought back. But either way in June of 1987, she was dismembered and put in the backyard and then Fred built a patio on top of it. And told the other kids Heather ran away with a lesbian lover. But then eventually they told the kids One time Fred was like making a joke and he was like, listen behave or you'll end up under the patio like Heather. After that, they stop killing as far as we know, as I mentioned Louisa, be the child to bring attention to their family and 1991 92. It started in May of 91 ladies was 13. Fred asked her to bring something to him on the first floor and he attacked her.

1:29:26 Well, Rose wasn't home. Her siblings for her scream, they found her on the floor, sobbing, he had raped her sodomized her and almost strangled her to death. When she told her mom roses just like you were asking for it and over the next few weeks it happened three More times, I'm Rose even witnessed one of the attacks. So August Louise told a friend, what happened and on August 4th that friend's mom told the police anonymously. Their police did a routine search and I found like well over 100 's like stacks of porn. They found tapes of what went on in roses room. They tried spread with rape and sodomy of a minor Rose was charged with assisting, an abuse of a minor all five. Younger children were taken into custody. The detective on this case, Hazel Savage new friend from his early years of fever.

1:30:20 The first thing Hazel's realized was that Rena and Charmaine West weren't just gone from Fred's life but they weren't anywhere in any English records. When Anna Marie learns, that her dad was denying all the charges she sought out Hazel and Hazel did it took down this interview about all of the abuse that Hannah Marie had been enduring since she was 8 years old? Hazel also became suspicious about Heather when she went through, all the family videos and didn't see anything for Heather past, 1987 weird interest, which right?

1:31:00 Unfortunately the rape case falls apart when Anna Marie and Louise don't want to testify even though they had already given us one test statements to the police. Because it's It's really terrible. You know what I mean? To make someone who went through horrible things. Now, we count them again in front of a room full of people. But the West get acquitted in June of 1993. Annamarie, bags, detective, Savage to keep looking for Rena and Charmaine The County however did not hand the kids back. Sorry not it's not County but you know it's equivalent. So the West were only allowed supervised visits with the children.

1:31:44 Now as we look into Rena and Charmaine and Heather it's apparent that they are dead but they need proof. Several of the younger children had reported the phrase, you'll end up like Heather under the porch that threat and they were able to use that to get a warrant to check the backyard. And when the police arrived on February 24th with the warrant Rose was kind of flipping an arrogant. So she read it and then they said she went pale as the police dug up the backyard and questioned her. She was like I can't fucking remember. It's a boy. Bloody long time ago. Who do you think? I am a computer?

1:32:24 Their son, Stephen called fried and Fred was like, I'll be home from my job and Stroud, as soon as I can, when he got there, three hours later, he was spouting this bizarre story about Heather who was involved with the drug cartels and the patio thing was just a joke. The police did not take this seriously. And when they didn't take it, seriously fried actually showed up and reported the police who were in his yard. Saying that they were harassing him because of the prior year case. Yeah, he was like, y'all are just harassing me because you couldn't get me on the right place from last year. S you because someone says something about a body in your backyard sir. Yeah.

1:33:08 Day one of digging, they haven't found feather but the police are allowed to ask about the entire backyard. They leave an armed guard at the site and go home. The following morning, Fred tells Steven look after your mom and sell the house, I've done something really bad. I want you to go to the papers and make as much money as you can. Stephen totally doesn't understand this. When the police arrived to dig again price, just like listen, I kill my daughter. Let's get this over with, he told the police. They had a fight, he strangled her in a fit of rage. It was totally an accident manslaughter. He's like I cut her up so it'd be easier to barrier, then he asked for an attorney. At this point on there would go on to be hours of bizarre testimony from that it is still on video and it is super weird. But him talking about stuff like the sound it made when he cut up different parts of Heather's body. But they were like, alright, if you did it show us where the body is.

1:34:11 So he goes back home, he points it out on February 25th. I don't know what Frank invest. I wonder if he thought that if He confessed they would stop like what the police were like, no, well she okay, just go backwards a little bit. So like with him, like first confessing to say, oh yeah, I strangled her in like a fit of rage and then talking about cutting up her body, how it sound it. I'm like that's not very inconsistent. Yeah, like sure that sounds like you enjoyed it. Yeah, there's also hours of him talking about his dad and bestiality and stuff and these tapes like he was just Going after that day of testimony on the 25th, the 26th, they continue the Dig. It took really long because it was very rainy in the UK that year and they weren't really digging, they were sifting through mud.

1:35:11 At 1 p.m. on February 26th, Ted recant, his testimony. he's like Heather's in Bahrain working for a drug cartel at 4:00 p.m., they find a femur, it was nowhere where friend had told them And Fred said that only had there was in the backyard, so they brought the bone to a pathologist or not night and night went to the dig site and he was able to recover a full set of remains which now means they have three femurs. For night is that quoted as saying either, this woman had three legs or we're looking at more than one body fried.

1:35:52 It mr. Shirley Robinson describes her in detail. Their like, is there anyone else he says? Yeah. Both Fred Andros are charged with killing their daughter. They found three bodies so far, March 4th through his attorney, Fred sends a note to the superintendent. That says, I friend requests, authorized my solicitor, how we robbed in to advise superintendent Bennett that I wished. You admit a further nine killings. Especially Charmaine ran out, Linda go and others to be identified, Brad, Wes and upon questioning. He told them where everyone was buried. The police found all six in the basement. The following week and the knife, he used to chop them up with two now.

1:36:34 Fred tried to say his wife had nothing to do with it but they were leaning on Rose because she was tied to assaults of two children of the 70s. They refused her bail. Move her to a Maximum Security. Prison began interrogating, her about Fred's murder on April 25th. She's charged with Linda goes murder on. May 6th both Fred Andros are charged with five counts of murder. Then June thirtieth, nineteen ninety-four. Fred is charged with 12 murders and growth 9. Both denied bail over and over Fred tries to like touch his wife. At the Sentencing or not, segment of the charges. And every time he reaches for her, she pulls away from her Fred's deeply depressed. They actually kept him on suicide, watch for 11 months. And that suicide watch was someone checking in on him every 15 minutes, 24 hours a day.

1:37:26 They finally relax the suicide watch. Never did. Nope, January 1st. 1995 Fred West hangs himself in a cell with blankets. He stole from the laundry room as soon. The night note was next to a drawing of a gravestone in his cell at said, and loving memory, Fred West Rose West. Rest in peace were no Shadow Falls in perfect peace. He waits for Rose his wife. Now with Fred the only witness to her murder is dead. Rose points, not guilty. Her trial starts October, 3rd, 1995, and it doesn't go too well for her the prosecutor Brian Levinson lays in her. He describes her as an active partner in the sadism and depraved acts on Cromwell Street.

1:38:09 He points out that Fred was in jail when Charmaine died. Meaning, you're the only one who could have done it. And then that the two had learned not to set let their sex slaves, live after Caroline Islands, I like this Brian guy, he's smart. He spells it like you too, and good, he brought out everybody who had contact with grows her mother sister borders at the house, victims, relatives, all surviving rape victims. Some of the girls were unnamed in court documents but they were really important because these girls testified that Rose was the aggressor during rapes. Now Rosemary's lawyer, tries to get Caroline's tested, they told it like thrown out because she had told her story for 20,000 pounds. But Caroline was like listen I want to I want Justice for the girls who didn't make it.

1:38:55 I feel like it was my fault. I didn't do enough. Defense is like you don't have any real evidence on Rose and friend was a killer before he even met Rose. Against her lawyers, wishes Rose testifies. In her defense, she cried on stand, talking about how she had been raped and abused in a child. And she married a man who was deviant violent and controlling. She straight up lied on stand when she was shown pictures of the victims. She said that Fred and her were living Separate Lives which didn't match. The testimony of all of the hundreds of borders who had lived there over 20 years, who were like they were real. Tight knit family they slept in the same bedroom Mmm, defense also brought out a lot of women who've been attacked and assaulted by a man who looks a lot like Frank last between 1966 and 1975. That was proof to try to prove to the court that Fred had worked alone.

1:39:52 After seven weeks, both sides closed their arguments on November 21st, and 22nd, the jury came back. Unanimous guilty on all charges, Rose has given life in prison with no parole to this day. She says that she is innocent. Fred was ultimately cremated for of his kids attended his funeral, the service was 5 minutes long, the Reverend quoted Psalms and was like, yeah, let's not forget the victims here and then dipped was like, I gotta do this make. So I guess we're going to do it. Yeah. Like it's part of my job. I guess. I have like it's part of my job. I have to do this or whatever.

1:40:33 No music, no nothing good. They nzb eventually, they spread his ashes at Barry Island, which is a place. I used to go as a kid before. Youngest was children were given new identities. They do not seek out any public recognition Annamarie. West had her mother and sister cremated, and buried in the same grave. Detective Hazel Savage received loads of commendations for her work and she continued to do her job for many more years. John West friend's brother put on trial for his crimes against Anna. He hung himself in November of 1996 coward. Just like his brothers, say it's funny. How they can do this stuff and then like, they don't like face their fucking consequences.

1:41:16 So stupid. Nope. I've always said that anybody who's willing to her child is a coward? House on Cromwell Street demolished. They made that decision in 96 at first, they bricked it up but ultimately they destroyed it to deter souvenir Hunters of course because Very West died of a drug overdose in 2020. He struggled with drugs and abuse, he suffered from his parents. Stephen actually got in trouble for dating a 14 year old in the early 2000s, and he actually tried to kill himself after that. He seems to be on the straight and narrow now, Rosa's kids originally made in her but when they asked about the murders Rose told her I was never a parent then and could never be now.

1:42:06 Only person who visited her, who visits her now is Anna. Strangely, roses tried multiple times to appeal, every appeal has been rejected, the most recent statement, she released in 2001, saying that she has stopped appealing And like I said, these days, apparently she fell in love with Myra hindley but now that your enemies she is very much alive. Only about 68 years old. Oh she has a loan. She has a long time left. which is, you know, for once we get some I like it. I like it.

1:42:49 I like the ending well like they he got off easy my fucking hanging himself but you know whatever there's some type of Justice serve here, which I like story of pretty much the worst couples in our American couples. They pretty much were doing it for money and just murdering strangers. Yeah, I'm sure there's probably a couple like, the West But yeah, we have a chill around the same time, with the Moors murders and friend, Rosemary West, very intriguing. But that just like we kind of had our call, it the serial killer Shuffle America. They kind of had this weird thing with doctors and Married couples.

1:43:44 This is interesting. It is interesting. And you wonder why it's intriguing? Yeah. Well, what we have coming from, Paranormal World, Ryan? Okay. Well like you mentioned earlier. We are only well when you guys listen to this we're only a couple days away from Valentine's Day. Yeah. You Valentine's Day. It's fun. I like to buy presents for people. I mean and they buy presents for me. See. Okay.

1:44:25 Yeah okay. That's nice. No, I thought you know what better to talk about. Then, you know, doing weird stuff with ghost. Did you ever look at the Fright Club? One of the episodes they definitely have what looks like, you know, they use that camera. That makes the bodies look like how you looked on a Kinect? The Xbox Kinect. Yeah, okay. Yeah, right. Well, the Ghost Hunters were using the camera like that and they definitely see who bodies in a bed on top of each other.

1:45:10 And they were like are we watching? Ghosts is a really good episode. Look here this is like, if there is that we're talking about, are we talking about people having sex with, we're talking about About well I don't, I wouldn't. Yes. Yes we are. We're talking about the living and girls in getting it all. Oh. Okay. Not. Just go see scattered. No, I think about looking just like there. Oh yes, last year I kind of touched on this subject.

1:46:04 There's like a story about I guess minister or something. He was at a rectory and like he had this ghostly woman passed through him and it felt like orgasmic to him. But like this time, I'm going, I'm going, we're going, we're going, we're getting into it, okay? So sex with goes or more commonly known as spectral philia, which is also known, as sexual attraction to ghosts. Or oh, I didn't know that was a thing. Yeah, yeah, or arousal from images and mirrors.

1:46:48 Oh yeah, so like like I don't know song, but with I guess spectral, Philip Spector. Ophelia to looking like Bloody Mary looking kind of fine today or Candyman, What The Hook do? Bloody Mary. Bloody Mary Beetlejuice. Spectral feel like it's is classified as both being a fetish and a phenomenon that happens. That's peculiar. We don't consider the The one where people are attracted to serial killers to be a fetish, but it should be some type of fetish.

1:47:39 No, it's not. I mean, and not a good fetish but like a bad fetish like, um, or we can shaming them. Yes, thanks, chanting, hybristophilia. Sorry y'all. Yeah. Sorry. I don't I don't agree with you anyway. It's apparently, it's a form of some type of paraphilia. Okay. So as I was doing research for this, I stumbled across a lot of the articles with celebrities who have claimed to have sex with ghosts. What there are a lot of apparently girl, I was celebrities that like have had sex with goats. I am so invested in this man.

1:48:28 Okay, awesome. Because I got I got listen to it. And is, here we go. Okay, so I ate, like, I have to, like, I do have to, like, say this that the spectral philia, or like, having sex with girls is not the same as like a succubus or Incubus. As you know, those are deemed, they are demons and they are here to steal your soul for your life. Essence, that they extract from your make you give birth to a date. There you go. We talking about ghosts here today. Okay? So did you know so okay before I even get to his list, a lot of these people that actually have sex with girls, they all described it as the same not or not everybody because sometimes it's not consensual and it's It's it's an unpleasant feeling for them, like just being touched and just like Daedalus. Like I don't like this, I don't like this, but For other people is who actually like give into this they're like, yeah, I just felt like a body on top of mine it just like, oh, I felt the pressure of another body on me and then just the feeling of it happening and it just felt wonderful and I was just like, I was reading this.

1:50:00 I was like, what the fuck am I missing out by not it? Why not going after ghost now? But are we dating goes in at the like I feel like I feel like the picture of the one character, you know, the butterfly? He's just like are we in a relationship? Oh my God. So the first celebrity that I have, who really surprised me. Like just like seeing her name pop up as freaking Kesha.

1:50:43 What? No way. Tasha says that she was intimate with a ghost. And is that maybe her song supernatural? Was about said relation with a ghost. When did the nasty? Yeah, she said she enjoyed it. It's a song about it. I never even, that's not even God. I don't know but it's in my of course in my playlist because I have all of Kesha's songs.

1:51:25 I don't know why. I don't know this song. / natural. I think it's like in one of our newer. Oh, it's from the will know. It's, it looks like from the warrior, really? I also like 2,000 talking like 2012? Yeah, 2012 2011, I guess I just skipped over that one on the album and listen to the dance songs. I like better. I listen to all of her songs. I'd love about, I love her, but like, sometimes don't start now and she just like certain songs better. So you listen to those like 20 times, that's me. I find the ones that are like really, really liked a lot and listen to that one a lot. Not. I do I just love. I don't know.

1:52:06 I just I just hold back until it's okay. Girl. Kesha Kesha had? Yes actually goes. Um, guess who has had sex with a ghost? Lucy, Liu interesting. Yeah apparently Back in 1999. So she tells tight what US Weekly my bad that she was, she just like lay down on the couch for a nap and then she just felt this presence on top of her and she go straight. I'm just saying you didn't consent. He just showed up and see what she says. It was.

1:52:49 It was sheer Bliss. If I felt everything, I Climax, and he floated away. All right, so I guess she wasn't like too too upset about it. Um, Bobby Brown Around says he has. Was he on drugs when he did this? He because he has a history. He does have a history, The Sounds thing. Um, yeah. He says that He slept with a ghost in one of his houses, he said, okay, this is a quote from his office mansion in Georgia. It was a really, this was a really, really spooky place. But yes, one time I woke up and yet a ghost, I was being mounted bike ghost.

1:53:50 I would like, oh no, I guess he told her to me. Is this is real life, folks. I'll take your word for it. Like, I don't know why they're telling people about this because it's weird and people probably find it interesting.

1:54:33 So, Anna Nicole Smith? Listen, I know people don't like her but she was my girl. She is like, the ultimate, like I loved her. Yeah, you should really nice. I don't like her showing keep her a bad rap. And here's the thing. If Anna had been around in 2022, folks would have been telling her that she had got the bag. She was the queen people would have, they would not have cleared her the way they did in the 90s. Now, this is. Yeah, and I think that's a messed up all in a day, was be a stripper and me A nice old man, what's up? Yeah, I do.

1:55:18 I mean I didn't I didn't like her show so it's okay. Thank you. But yeah, she said that she, you know, had a thing for goes to And this is a quote, I'm reading. It says she said, well she says it goes for call my leg in have intercourse with me an apartment a long time ago. In Texas. I used to think it was before she was, you know, fancy Anna. Yeah. I used to think it was my boyfriend. Then one day I woke up and found out it wasn't she? Apparently just happened multiple times. Times to her.

1:56:01 And she, there was just this one time that she actually found out that it like, she looked up into the, it did it wasn't her boyfriend at all? She said she was freaked out about it, but then it but then I was like, well, you know what? He's never hurt me, and he just gave you some amazing sex. So, right? It's always amazing. I would go. I want someone on your list who tells us that The ghost, did it? And it was subpar. That is more realistic Riya. Oh God, I don't have any um mr.

1:56:43 Mr. Dan Aykroyd. Now, now I know, whoever has seen who ever seen Ghostbusters know about that scene about him having that dream about having sex with a ghost or they ghosts giving him a blow job or whatever mean, here's something else. A Danny Aykroyd is really into the Paranormal. Is this ghost stuff? He I mean, Well, he was doing a documentary on the Men in Black and then it got shut down after he saw couple. Um, so if anybody might be like a like a tuning, you know, tuning rod for the Paranormal. I totally think it's it. Yeah, he's probably reading about this stuff looking at it, and stuff is just attracted to him.

1:57:28 I'm surprised I haven't found a ghost yet then damn, but maybe they found you. you just don't have the B gift. Yeah, I mean just not interested me it's okay. I get it and I always cup of tea um, as well as you know that if I die before you I'm definitely going to show up and like dab, oh my God, dance in your bedroom as a ghost. Please don't if I die and stuff, just starts falling down. It's because I tripped. I'm not even trying to scare you. I'm in your room and I fell. Over will be blaming you for everything.

1:58:15 Are you fucking my shit? But yeah he says letter O God o my mirror yeah and I'll be like I wasn't looking just came to say hi. So yeah, apparently he didn't he didn't have sex with a ghost but he did get covered up but he goes so you know. I don't know. I'm one of those people who have something like six down. Like you know if someone sits on the bed I'm like, oh no, so I don't know if I would allow it get to get to the sex place.

1:59:01 I probably hop out of bed and walk away. Yeah, mmm. The second to go sit down on the bed. And I see the pressure I'm out. I'm just, like, not experience. I would want, I'm just like, oh, well. Something's happening awesome. That's I mean. Hi, would you like to watch some animated? A ghost. Hello Ghost. I am a, we hopefully you like what I'm watching? Apparently, do you know Koko?

1:59:43 I used to use while you fool. Oh, yeah. Okay. So apparently there's, there's a ghost that I guess she has a ghost stalker because it's followed her from place to place. And from Albuquerque to Arizona, Yeah. And like she's like, during the day when you think goes, you think of it being dark and foggy, Misty outside of every time I saw or felt anything, it was in the daytime, and there was no fog out there. So she's like this goes, just follow me all around. And I mean, Never mind, never mind. No, it's okay.

2:00:32 And she's like I was I was watching TV like one night and I was sitting on the couch at it was in the morning and I was wearing a nightie and I felt my dress move up my leg. I look down and got freaked out, I pushed it down. Watch TV, felt it again and I could see it being pulled up. And then I felt a guy breathe In my ear. I'm leaving. That's no, that's what. That's a story that they did. Not fucking they were not into it. No, thank you. You're welcome. Oh my God.

2:01:16 Okay. So have you heard about this some woman? Married a ghost. David here. Have you heard about this? I mean, I heard a Lady Mary train station. So nothing surprises me anymore. I've heard about that, too. I was just like, okay, so it might have popped up in one of my list of weird things. People have married kind of situations and I didn't look to it. Okay, so here's the name, someone she knows no, maybe, okay, Hey. So This Woman's name, her name is Amanda. Amanda Teague.

2:02:06 And this happened? I guess 2016. She married a 300 year old pirate ghosts. His they marry her. I believe that he married her. She thinks they're together, but they're not, but he's My my love is for the sea. Exactly. That's how I see that. Like she had the ceremony but that goes even thinks he's single. Yeah. Um, so his name was Jack Teague.

2:02:48 Um, She took his last name, is she took his last name? Um, so apparently she worked as a Jack Sparrow impersonator and I ruined. So so as I was as I was, you know, looking up like this named Jack Tegan stuff, a lot of stuff popped up from like Pirates of the Caribbean. So I went and dug him with deep into it was like apparently that's Jack's name. Jack Sparrow's Nest so he's the inspiration for the character so or that the character is an inspiration for this ghost. That she had married so I'm not sure like as I was reading this I was like, is so did she just marry Like Her Imagination or something like that?

2:03:45 Or is this actually like a real ghost? But who who's the? Who's to say, who's to say Bernie? I'm telling, you know, pirate is getting married. I know. I know. No Pirates. Get a fucking very carefully. That's my only situation. No Pirates, getting married. They're like, listen. We can smash, but that's it. I gotta be out in the sea. I gotta, I gotta find some other booty treasure in booty. Anyway, um, I know was a good point.

2:04:26 I thought so, apparently, she said that the relationship started back in 2015 and she was lying on her back. Bed at home and she sends the presence of him on top of her and she said, it happened, like it continued to over the six months. And she's like, she started growing feelings for him and then I guess the two of them just made plans to, you know, get hitched.

2:05:07 But you give me right now. I'm just shaking my head. She said that their chemistry was incredible and Jack, Jack is the best sex I've ever had silence since its You by. This is true, very true. Now, their marriage, actually didn't last. So apparently, let me just say this first. Apparently, this was like the firstly person marriage. Okay, so the first time the courts allow this to happen but yeah. Basically I guess the the found some loopholes and apparently it wasn't. So it's not legal in the UK or Ireland, to marry deceased person, but they are lawyers to like, get a loophole. Some some fucking how they sailed into international waters?

2:06:08 That's how. Wow. Yes, they they they not only is he a pirate but they got married on a boat Brittany. At least. But yeah, she says, she's the first person in UK and Ireland him legally, marry a ghost. Yeah, but yea, like I said, like, like I hinted to that they didn't last long at all. Well, I think, let me see. I goddamn, I don't have the date and one day they got divorced, okay. After that, she find a real person to date.

2:06:52 I don't think so. I don't think so he could have initiated the divorce. I don't know, maybe he did. He's like the pirate life's for me British. Oh my God, as I was reading this so apparently There was supposed to be a new dating app that popped up about you to candida goes. I think so it was supposed to be something like shiver Me. Tenders of her. Something, I think that's probably a joke.

2:07:33 I don't think that's. That's true. But I mean, there's no way to make it. Now, you can make an app, but like No One's Gonna pay for that. I think, you know, will be great if someone me like a video game about dating girls is that neither thing dating goes simulator, that should be a thing if it's not a thing. I mean, you're probably right. We've got dream daddy dungeon daddy. I know there's monster like you date a monster. I think there was a ghost. You know what, I have see. I have seen it. I mean, Monster prom and Monster High School are very sexual and well Monster High School's more sexual than monster prob no, it's monster prom and summer camp. The summer camp is less sexy but your goal is to seduce a monster in those games.

2:08:28 In a group setting? Yeah, I'm pretty sure. I've seen this, I've seen this somewhere a ghost dating Sim. Oh, But yeah, yeah. But in the same they would create a personalities. Yeah, that's true. But yeah, I don't know, like the spectral feel that it pops up like In a lot of places with a lot of places on like, T be like like I said Ghostbusters earlier, or apparently, in Star Trek, the Next Generation, there was a type of ghost sex thing or traction. And we can't forget the 1990s movie. Ghost with who's that?

2:09:24 Who's that? Patrick Swayze? Oh right, right? Yes. But that was different because will be Goldberg's character. The medium allowed herself to be what's the word, conduit, you letter? Yeah. So technically Demi Moore Sex and will be Goldberg felt like her lover who hmm? It's very peculiar and I thought it was peculiar when I watched it as a child and I still think it's weird now but we'll be going with a great job in that movie. I've only seen it once and I was as a kid. Why did we watch it as a child?

2:10:07 I have no fucking idea. I think my parents had it on and it's just like The sexy. It's the whole it's weird. I don't like it. Just get you a pottery wheel and you're good to go. No bueno. Sexy girls. Yeah, I think who's it. There's a, there's a ghost adventures and travel channel. They travel channel. They have it's like a show titled, ghostly lovers or some shit like that. At and they talk about later. Yes.

2:10:49 I would have to look into this. I don't remember exact begum's ever talking about that. I never one time, they went to a brothel and all the dudes kept getting touched, see that's all it takes. And they were like Do they think we're their customers? We think you're going to pay them. So, yes, you can bring some some fucking money. So I remember that happening and that does happen sometimes when you go into certain locations. Yeah. If this is a show where they talk about like stuff like this, I'd be interested in watching it. Yeah. I think it I think it was just like a like a one-off show or something like that. But yeah.

2:11:34 They were just Episode of it. And yeah, they were talking about it, look it up. It's called ghostly lovers. I saw like a YouTube trailer for it. So it was okay, we're really time I told you about going to the going to the when I ghost hunt in the yeah for the prison and then some I guess one of the prisoners really like women and he like touching them. Yeah yeah and stuff like that. Happen. Yeah, watch out there because maybe one day you just get like, a ghostly touch somewhere, it's not appropriate, maybe if you're alone.

2:12:25 To happen presents with visit YouTube. Just yeah, just hope don't summon it okay. Because that's a demon. Yeah, no, don't send me things just, you know, Wistfully think about? Yes. Because ghosts need love too apparently. Oh, got it. They really don't there. Jerry, they've lived their life. They're good. Yeah, that's that's right. Gods of this week. Well, that's an interesting ending for today's episode. Happy Valentine's Day. Yeah. Our second victim will be coming soon. Yes.

2:13:07 And you can always support us on patreon where I said, we have over 20 exclusive only for the Patrons conspiracy Crypt episodes where we talk about a lot of weird stuff, some straight, some funny stuff, some very odd stuff. We go into everything we really do. We touch everything. Yeah, we might be trying. We might be creating a Movie night feature. We will just want to hang with us and watch it from. Yeah it'll be cool. Just to get people to like hang out and watch. But yeah, I hope you have a great weekend. Yep. You too. Bye bye.