Episode 27: Richard Speck & The Townhouse Massacre

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Hey, everybody.
In serial killer country.

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My name is Brittany.
Ransom, my name is Brian Joyner,

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and this is when Killers get
caught, a podcast devoted to

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deep dives, into the lives and
psyche.

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So, the Killer's we love to
learn about about each week.

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Brian, I find a True Crime Story
that resonated with us and then

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I discuss one, well-known or
lesser known killer and go into

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their childhood lives,
methodology.

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And most importantly how they
got caught and then we'll get a

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little spooky and learn
something about the Cryptids or

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the supernatural.
And before we start, we just

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want to let everybody know that
our patreon is live.

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Yes.
Okay.

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can have I guess what?
Like a monthly private chat with

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us.
And speaking of March March is

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absolutely available online
Killers, get caught.com, just

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So if you've wanted to support
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And we have a patron goal of 500
patrons.

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And I've agreed to allow Brian
to make me stay at the Lizzie

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Borden house and participate in
a ghost time.

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It's gonna be fun.
If we get 500 patrons, it's

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going to be fine.
I don't know.

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You know what?
When I was editing a last week's

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episode and you mentioned
blankets and in the beginning

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and then I was like oh yeah you
get blankets, do it?

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Like I did.
I just hear you say get blankets

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and emerge stop.
I was like, oh my God, not just

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do that.
That's all right.

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I'm sorry.
You can't get blankets.

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I keep saying, I want to buy a
blanket.

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Also, some pillows.
So yeah, there's because I want

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to put them in the back of my
videos so that's it has like the

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logo right there.
Next to me.

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Look once we get we're Gonna get
fitted sheets and then regular

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sheet has to make you have when
Killers.

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Get caught bed.
Yes.

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Oh my God, wouldn't want that.
You know what, though they would

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want it.
If it had like every single like

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picture of a serial killer or
something, they'll be awesome.

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But what it will say, if I am
working on a very secret secret

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thing that's probably going to
be like a year for us to create

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my God, but it's very cool and I
have somebody doing the art

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slowly for it.
So okay.

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But yeah.
That's just your little

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reminders of ways you can
support us.

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And this week in True Crime, I
have a weird story and this

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person has a person who did this
crime has not been caught, but

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it's weird.
I'm down for weird stories.

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So the headline says, body of
missing Oklahoma team or it

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says, actually read it because
it's a horrible headline, but

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body of Oklahoma team missing,
since 2018 is found dead.

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Decomposed in a basement.
Homeowner says he had no idea.

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That's a little sauce right
there, my guy.

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Yeah, absolutely.
Well, the woman's name was

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Margarita.
They called her Maggie Sandoval.

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She was 19 years old when she
vanished in 2018.

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I guess it's near Oklahoma
University and they're trying to

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figure out like who did this in
general.

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But it's a whole lot of weird
stuff.

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So her family realized she was
missing when she stopped calling

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her mom, which is, you know,
pretty normal when you're in

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college and for three years,
nobody knew anything.

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And then they got an anonymous
tip.

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To search a house in Norman
Oklahoma, for a dead body in the

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basement, they found a large
black box and according to the

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police report, the body was
wrapped in numerous layers of

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thick plastic, pretty much 20 to
30 layers of plastic Norma's,

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police detectives Sean, Judy
wrote that officer saw a liquid

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leaking from the box, as well as
insects escaping.

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And then when they got closer
and smelled, the odor of

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decomposition, Opposition.
They called in the crime scene

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investigators.
They've since identified that

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this is Maggie and they're
trying to figure out the cause

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of death right now.
What's interesting is that like

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the homeowner is like I have no
idea.

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He liked when they came to his
door with the search warrant.

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He was like, I don't know about
a body but sure, come on in.

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Yeah.
Now she's been missing since

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2018 and the current homeowner
moved in in 2019, but he allowed

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one of his friends to like,
store the stuff from his

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apartment in his basement.
This all just seems Very weird.

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And that friend was someone
related to Maggie Sandoval?

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Oh, like related related or like
they were like friends with her.

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So it does the friend who stored
the items is a relative of

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Sandoval who had been living at
an address where she had been

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receiving her social security
payments, because she had a

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disability, Her sister says that
they had actually wanted to

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legally take over like her
caretaking and so there's a lot

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of like layers to this like was
she killed for Social Security

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payments?
Yeah.

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But people knew she was like Dad
immediately, there's just so

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many unanswered questions.
Like first first thing that's

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weird, not on this call.
And in the homeowner doesn't

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know, so that it's not on his
caller.

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Must have been the person who
did this Ray, So goodness and

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then.
Okay.

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And then for the homeowner yet,
this black box in your basement,

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you don't question.
He'd never go down into the

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basement and all exactly as you
have like your washer and dryer

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up on the second floor which is
side note.

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My ideal living situation that
my washer and dryers on the same

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floor as my bedroom.
Because who wants to walk down

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two flights of steps to wash
your clothes but like so did he

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never go in the basement?
Is that the situation?

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Because I feel like if you
checked it out at all, it had a

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weird smell.
And another thing that was

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interesting to me, Is what's the
weather like in Oklahoma that

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she still decomposing three
years later, was she at some

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point Frozen?
And then it started to thaw

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because after three years, there
should not be insects and

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leakage happening, I mean, but
did the plastic slow down.

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I just want thinking that's what
I'm thinking the the layers of

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plastic may have slowed it down
and then after a while, it just

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started leaking out.
We have a search warrant was May

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14th, they've just discovered
her identity.

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Recently after going to have to
do lots of things.

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But yeah, so that's that's like
it's so interesting to me.

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That's why I want to go to the
Body Farm.

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God I just want to know all the
different things that can happen

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and how it affects you.
It's just I don't know.

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That's it's, it's very
interesting that story and it's

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very weird.
And also one of the things

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that's interesting to me is that
whenever I About like someone

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died in their apartment and
people didn't know people like

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how didn't people know the smell
and I like always work out the

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story that like literally oh
yeah four doors down somebody

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died and we didn't know.
Yeah like and all it just

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smelled weird.
Like I don't know how to explain

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it and then when I've been
Googling like this, the the

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bacteria that happens when you
begin to decompose or like once

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you really get into the gross
bits of decomposition, they're

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talking about hundreds of
different, smells hundreds of

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different, Bacterias like and
they all give off different

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smells at different times and
like because we didn't get the

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gross gross.
It just smelled like weird.

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It's not weird.
Smell it smells extra sweet.

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But in a way that was really
sweet.

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Yeah.
But in a gross way and so people

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reported it to the apartment
complex and I went to work and

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then when I guess during the day
they like opened, everybody's

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apartment to see where the smell
was coming from, and eventually

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they got to his Yeah, discovered
it.

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But yeah, so, I'm like there's
so many questions, because I'm

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like, what was what there had to
have been some scent, but what

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was the set?
Yeah.

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And this relative that store
their stuff in this home, they

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just worried contacted at all.
Well, one of Maggie's relative.

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Exactly.
So then whoever the homeowner is

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he is, somehow involved in this
circle connected, and then.

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Yeah.
And then the sister said that

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because she had a mental
illness, other members of the

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family, wanted to become her
primary caretakers to get her,

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Social Security payment.
Some like it's a massive family

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cover-up.
Hmm.

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Of people trying to like, it's
gonna sound something like that.

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Yeah, I mean, I have it a couple
times and I lived in

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Philadelphia, they found like
elderly, people, like locked in

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like other family members
basements and they were just

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like collecting their Social
Security checks.

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Yeah.
It happened a few times.

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When I lived in Philly.
Wow, I was like, we got to look

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out for our elders.
People are fucking depraved,

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apparently.
Now, you got also look Gout for

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your family members who are
disabled to because definitely

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shh.
But anyway, that was my story

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for the week.
What you got for me?

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God, starting off with a friggin
bang and the, the person I talk

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about it doesn't get any better.
Well this week.

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All right.
Really?

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This headline to you says
Brighton cat.

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Killer is Steve both quit.
Quit quit.

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He's 54.
He is jailed for five years for

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killing Nine, Cats and maiming.
Seven War.

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Where did this happen?
Every nine months, animal

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cruelty campaign.
This happened in East Sussex.

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Okay?
You said bright and I was like

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Island, only bright 90's in the
UK.

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Yeah.
Yeah.

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Why was he just marking cats?
I'm not sure, but then he better

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hope the internet doesn't get a
hold of him.

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Goodness gracious, but it's says
actual real Navy.

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Gunner.
Dubbed, the Brighton cat killer

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has been jailed for 25 years
after being found guilty for

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killing.
I catch him eating 7, and this

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has happened over what to say.
That's actually a total of 15.

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It cats.
He attacked.

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Yeah, succeeded in murdering
nine of them, you know, 16?

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Yeah.
And seven just survived.

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His attack.
Yeah, and this happened for nine

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months.
Oh wow.

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To a month.
Yeah, so it says he approached

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animals that work, you know,
Passover coaster house, you

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know, outdoor cats after is
Neighbors pets.

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Well, closer, their house.
I'm not sure his house, but, you

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know, he would just appreciate
he just be walking around like

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this cat lives there.
I know you live there, so I'm

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gonna kill you by that would be
like, you know, I can't stand

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you.
I don't know if it was this is

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way worse than that lady.
Who likes stole a cat when they

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Ubers and that's what I thought
of like.

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When I saw this story and I was
like, another cat story.

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Lovely.
Wow.

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People are just, I don't know
why you so mean to cats cats are

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well, awesome.
Okay.

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It says, his Killing Spree,
brought fear to pet owners

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across the seaside resort, who
was too scared to let their cats

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out between October 2018 in
June, She was 19.

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He's got the you're not supposed
to let your kids out because

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they like destroy local birds
the cats.

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Yeah.
Like if you can keep them

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inside, I mean that makes sense.
So, I mean more than likely when

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the everyone was afraid to take,
let their cats out the bird

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population, flourish, any
suspect, it probably

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skyrocketing, he's probably
helping out in his own stupid

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way but yeah, he was caught
after an owner of One killed cat

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set up a CCTV overlooking
Alleyway outside his house and

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call him attacking his final
victim.

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Good job.
Yeah.

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But yeah, did he have anything
to say about this when he got

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caught?
I mean, there's probably a

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video, there's a video of him
being questioned about it.

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00:12:30,500 --> 00:12:34,500
I've watched it, I just want to
know, like, did he say anything?

229
00:12:34,500 --> 00:12:36,200
I'm pretty sure he has something
to say about it.

230
00:12:36,200 --> 00:12:38,400
I was he just like y'all can
leave me alone.

231
00:12:39,600 --> 00:12:41,200
Hey, leave me alone.
Let me kill these cats.

232
00:12:41,200 --> 00:12:44,000
Yeah.
Oh my God.

233
00:12:45,100 --> 00:12:49,000
But yeah, there's I mean there's
just I like to Justice the

234
00:12:49,000 --> 00:12:53,100
Justice True Crime Story is I
find they're really nice because

235
00:12:53,600 --> 00:12:57,800
they're Justice for the the cat
population and their owners so

236
00:12:58,600 --> 00:13:01,500
well.
I mean all this is people are

237
00:13:01,500 --> 00:13:02,900
set.
That's sad.

238
00:13:02,900 --> 00:13:16,300
Yeah yeah bummer When Killers
get caught is sponsored by the

239
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magic class Boutique.
Now, why does that name sound so

240
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familiar?
Well, it's because as a business

241
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that's right.

242
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243
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This is a jewelry company, that

244
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245
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Reading from cute little sushis
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246
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247
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248
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249
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250
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251
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252
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253
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254
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257
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And make sure you tell Brittany
that I sent you. - speaking of

258
00:14:41,200 --> 00:14:43,100
bombers.
Oh yeah, we heading into another

259
00:14:43,100 --> 00:14:46,500
Massacre.
This is one of the the first

260
00:14:46,500 --> 00:14:50,200
random just killing massacres in
the US.

261
00:14:53,000 --> 00:14:56,000
And I was reminded of this
killer because I covered one of

262
00:14:56,000 --> 00:14:59,900
his victims in my women who
survived series on Tick Tock,

263
00:15:01,600 --> 00:15:06,100
and well, if I say the crime of
the century, do you know what

264
00:15:06,100 --> 00:15:08,900
I'm talking about?
Probably not, or the townhouse

265
00:15:08,900 --> 00:15:14,000
Massacre, definitely not
happened in Chicago, July 13th,

266
00:15:14,100 --> 00:15:18,600
into July 14th, 1966, this man
killed eight, nursing students.

267
00:15:19,200 --> 00:15:22,400
His name is Richard Speck I know
that name.

268
00:15:22,400 --> 00:15:24,900
Mhm.
Interested me for a couple

269
00:15:24,900 --> 00:15:26,800
reasons.
Well, first thing is that I find

270
00:15:26,800 --> 00:15:31,400
it interesting that this might
be one of the first instances of

271
00:15:31,800 --> 00:15:35,400
I was too drunk and high to
remember murdering eight people

272
00:15:37,000 --> 00:15:43,800
and then he somehow managed to
avoid the death penalty, but

273
00:15:43,900 --> 00:15:48,700
after he died a video where he
and other inmates were pretty

274
00:15:48,700 --> 00:15:56,200
much having a drug-fueled orgy.
Was mailed to the press and he

275
00:15:56,200 --> 00:15:58,600
was very famously.
Quoted in that video, that was

276
00:15:58,600 --> 00:16:01,800
shown to politicians saying.
If they knew how much fun I was

277
00:16:01,800 --> 00:16:04,300
having in here, they would cut
me loose.

278
00:16:05,000 --> 00:16:11,100
Hmm, so that like sort of
reignited, the conversation on

279
00:16:11,100 --> 00:16:15,100
capital punishment and the 90s
when that video was released.

280
00:16:15,300 --> 00:16:17,200
Well, there you can still see
clips of it?

281
00:16:17,200 --> 00:16:20,800
You you can they don't show the
the sex, right?

282
00:16:20,800 --> 00:16:25,800
Of course.
Yeah, well yeah, that's this guy

283
00:16:25,800 --> 00:16:32,200
is weird and it's just us a lot.
You're going to sympathize with

284
00:16:32,200 --> 00:16:36,000
him in some ways and then in
other ways not so much.

285
00:16:36,500 --> 00:16:39,500
Okay?
But we'll start with the humble

286
00:16:39,500 --> 00:16:43,100
beginnings of Richard.
Benjamin spec born on December

287
00:16:43,100 --> 00:16:47,100
6, 1941 he was the seventh of
eight children born in the small

288
00:16:47,100 --> 00:16:50,300
town of Kirkwood Illinois
shortly after he was born his

289
00:16:50,300 --> 00:16:52,400
father Benjamin And moved them
to Monmouth.

290
00:16:52,400 --> 00:16:55,900
So that Dad could work in a
warehouse, Dad wasn't really

291
00:16:55,900 --> 00:16:58,400
highly educated, and he did a
lot of hard labor jobs to

292
00:16:58,400 --> 00:17:02,000
support his family.
Richard and his younger sister.

293
00:17:02,000 --> 00:17:05,700
Carolyn were significantly
younger than the four older

294
00:17:05,700 --> 00:17:07,300
sisters.
And two older brothers.

295
00:17:10,000 --> 00:17:12,500
Because of that, Richard
definitely was very close to his

296
00:17:12,500 --> 00:17:15,099
dad.
But Dad worked like really long

297
00:17:15,099 --> 00:17:16,800
hours because he was the sole
Breadwinner.

298
00:17:16,800 --> 00:17:21,800
And so pretty much, he had his
hyper-religious mother, Mary

299
00:17:21,800 --> 00:17:25,599
Margaret and his sister.
Caroline was really his only

300
00:17:25,599 --> 00:17:28,700
like friend when he was growing
up and the both of them

301
00:17:28,700 --> 00:17:31,000
definitely had one hell of a
time dealing with their moms

302
00:17:31,000 --> 00:17:33,600
religious Obsession.
Look, if you're a kid who grew

303
00:17:33,600 --> 00:17:36,100
up near any sort of
fundamentalism, they should

304
00:17:36,100 --> 00:17:39,600
sound pretty familiar, you know,
the punishment for acting out.

305
00:17:40,000 --> 00:17:43,100
At all doing childish.
Things is damnation in Hell

306
00:17:43,100 --> 00:17:48,900
Fire.
And on top of that, Mary was

307
00:17:49,000 --> 00:17:53,000
what's called a teetotaler which
was a mid 19th century, movement

308
00:17:53,000 --> 00:17:55,500
of people who abstained from
alcohol.

309
00:17:58,300 --> 00:18:02,700
So, and it's like, it's not
enough for you to abstain.

310
00:18:03,200 --> 00:18:06,300
You got to be a little bit
overbearing to like, you gotta,

311
00:18:06,300 --> 00:18:09,400
you gotta push your beliefs on
people, too.

312
00:18:09,400 --> 00:18:11,500
Huh.
Mary was definitely a little bit

313
00:18:11,500 --> 00:18:14,000
jealous of the relationship
between Richard and Benjamin

314
00:18:14,300 --> 00:18:17,500
because she had raised all the
other children exclusively.

315
00:18:17,500 --> 00:18:20,600
Hmm.
And so here's the little boy and

316
00:18:20,600 --> 00:18:24,400
like, they, like, you have
children.

317
00:18:25,000 --> 00:18:27,700
So do you have a A child.
That's more like you.

318
00:18:29,200 --> 00:18:33,200
I mean they're both equal parts
me but Cassandra.

319
00:18:33,200 --> 00:18:36,400
I'd say she acts more like me
because like well, that's funny

320
00:18:36,400 --> 00:18:38,200
because all I hear when we're on
live stream.

321
00:18:38,200 --> 00:18:40,300
Is that girl screaming her head
off?

322
00:18:40,500 --> 00:18:42,500
Okay, I'm pretty sure I was like
them.

323
00:18:42,600 --> 00:18:44,900
Well, I just went like the thing
here.

324
00:18:44,900 --> 00:18:47,600
Was that Benjamin was a very
quiet calm guy.

325
00:18:47,900 --> 00:18:51,400
And so was Richard.
And so I think that that sort of

326
00:18:51,400 --> 00:18:53,700
energy was something that they
both kind of I've done.

327
00:18:56,700 --> 00:19:01,200
So Mary Margaret, like I said,
she's a good standard, she's

328
00:19:01,200 --> 00:19:04,000
hyper-religious and then she
starts kind of suffering from

329
00:19:04,000 --> 00:19:06,800
empty nest syndrome.
As all of the older children are

330
00:19:06,800 --> 00:19:10,700
moving out getting married.
She like, like when I say

331
00:19:10,700 --> 00:19:13,000
struggling, I mean, like
sobbing.

332
00:19:13,400 --> 00:19:17,500
When she had to send Richard and
Carolyn to school, like, big bad

333
00:19:17,500 --> 00:19:21,600
arm, In school, Richard was
polite, but he struggled with

334
00:19:21,600 --> 00:19:25,200
reading and paying attention and
they realized that he needed

335
00:19:25,200 --> 00:19:28,800
glasses, but he hated them and
he wouldn't wear them unless his

336
00:19:28,800 --> 00:19:32,300
dad told him to, and he hated it
because he didn't like when

337
00:19:32,300 --> 00:19:35,800
people looked at him, he
actually disliked any attention

338
00:19:35,800 --> 00:19:38,100
of any form.
He wouldn't read him publicly.

339
00:19:38,100 --> 00:19:40,100
If he was, he wouldn't read
publicly in class if he was

340
00:19:40,100 --> 00:19:45,100
called on.
This was something that the

341
00:19:45,108 --> 00:19:49,600
school was trying to work on
with him and then when he was

342
00:19:49,600 --> 00:19:54,500
six in 1947, Benjamin died from
a heart attack.

343
00:19:54,500 --> 00:19:56,800
Oh no.
And this is really hard on

344
00:19:56,800 --> 00:19:58,600
Richard, I believe it.
Like I said, they had that

345
00:19:58,600 --> 00:20:02,300
really calm quiet Bond and all,
you know, fix your old.

346
00:20:02,300 --> 00:20:04,600
Richard wanted was to grow up
and be like his dad.

347
00:20:05,400 --> 00:20:07,700
You know, I've spoken about the
loss of my mother and the way

348
00:20:07,700 --> 00:20:10,600
that I walked around like pretty
aimless for the next like two

349
00:20:10,600 --> 00:20:14,800
years after she died the same.
Hang up in here to richer, but

350
00:20:14,800 --> 00:20:17,900
he was only six.
He couldn't understand how his,

351
00:20:17,900 --> 00:20:21,600
like, Mom and his sisters and
even his teachers, like move on.

352
00:20:22,000 --> 00:20:24,600
And for the next three years, he
refused to do any of his

353
00:20:24,600 --> 00:20:26,900
schoolwork, even the stuff.
He knew, how to do.

354
00:20:27,600 --> 00:20:31,100
He wears glasses, he stopped
being like this polite kid who

355
00:20:31,108 --> 00:20:33,700
was a little bit troubled, and
he became just sort of a

356
00:20:33,700 --> 00:20:37,700
problem.
Hmm, his family was just like,

357
00:20:38,000 --> 00:20:42,700
I'll get over this grief is like
that, you know, but then when

358
00:20:42,700 --> 00:20:45,600
Richard, Was nine.
His mom was traveling home from

359
00:20:45,600 --> 00:20:48,900
Chicago.
And she met a man on the train.

360
00:20:48,900 --> 00:20:52,200
Oh, and his name was Carl.
Sandburg, Carl was this

361
00:20:52,200 --> 00:20:54,700
traveling salesman and he was he
like extreme opposite of

362
00:20:54,700 --> 00:20:57,200
Benjamin's back.
He was a smooth talker.

363
00:20:57,200 --> 00:21:02,000
He was a drunkard, he smoked.
And this 100% went against

364
00:21:02,700 --> 00:21:07,700
Mary's religious morals, but he
didn't matter cause she was just

365
00:21:07,700 --> 00:21:11,700
oh, my god, of course button.
What's that called dick-notized

366
00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:14,500
listening?
She invited him to meet her

367
00:21:14,500 --> 00:21:18,200
family, like from that meeting
on the train.

368
00:21:18,200 --> 00:21:22,900
She said, come meet my kids, you
know, mmm and Carl spun this

369
00:21:22,900 --> 00:21:25,300
yarn that he was going to be a
man who could help her raise her

370
00:21:25,300 --> 00:21:28,100
children.
Richard didn't approve, it all.

371
00:21:28,800 --> 00:21:32,600
He was openly hostile to this
man like but not in like a way

372
00:21:32,600 --> 00:21:34,200
of like you know like fighting
him or anything.

373
00:21:34,200 --> 00:21:36,900
But like just in the way that
like when kids don't like you,

374
00:21:36,900 --> 00:21:38,200
they just be blank face.
Yeah.

375
00:21:38,200 --> 00:21:43,000
They let you know they don't
think so man.

376
00:21:43,200 --> 00:21:48,700
I got more involved with Carl
and this is only a couple weeks

377
00:21:49,100 --> 00:21:52,400
and so like his older sister
Sarah was kind of like the

378
00:21:52,400 --> 00:21:55,700
surrogate mom and like, Sarah,
loved her younger siblings bird.

379
00:21:55,700 --> 00:21:58,900
Richard saw her is like, just an
extension of mom, so he didn't

380
00:21:58,900 --> 00:22:04,600
really.
So mind you after just a couple

381
00:22:04,600 --> 00:22:09,100
weeks of knowing this man, it's
May 1950.

382
00:22:09,100 --> 00:22:12,900
She takes the whole family on a
train ride and doesn't tell any

383
00:22:12,900 --> 00:22:16,200
of the children where they're
going and they show up at a

384
00:22:16,200 --> 00:22:18,600
church fuck.
As she gets, married to Carl.

385
00:22:18,600 --> 00:22:20,600
I'm fucking knew it.
Come on.

386
00:22:20,600 --> 00:22:24,900
Richard.
As disgusted as if and then he

387
00:22:24,900 --> 00:22:28,900
was extra upset because Carl
also signed the papers to adopt

388
00:22:28,900 --> 00:22:30,200
him.
Oh, come on.

389
00:22:30,300 --> 00:22:34,700
And Like, he was unhappy to the
point where any time someone

390
00:22:34,700 --> 00:22:38,200
called him, Richard Lindberg, he
was like, no, that's not my

391
00:22:38,208 --> 00:22:41,000
name.
Let me ask you.

392
00:22:43,100 --> 00:22:46,300
Is there like a thing where kids
can say, I don't want to be

393
00:22:46,300 --> 00:22:48,400
adopted by you.
I don't think so.

394
00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:50,700
When you're so little, you don't
get to make that choice.

395
00:22:50,700 --> 00:22:52,400
He was only nine years old.
Yeah.

396
00:22:52,400 --> 00:22:55,400
But I'm like I honestly don't
like you sir.

397
00:22:55,500 --> 00:22:57,600
Please don't you know what you
if you want.

398
00:22:57,700 --> 00:23:01,300
It happens all the time though.
My god, I've got personal

399
00:23:01,700 --> 00:23:05,400
stories of friendships where
people like just meet someone

400
00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:08,500
and move to another state.
I'm just like you just upgraded

401
00:23:08,500 --> 00:23:11,000
your whole family for somebody.
You just met what is wrong with

402
00:23:11,000 --> 00:23:15,200
you?
But regardless this was the

403
00:23:15,200 --> 00:23:19,100
first time that I think, Richard
very much begin to resent his

404
00:23:19,100 --> 00:23:24,100
mother and the fact that she
blindsided him with this

405
00:23:24,100 --> 00:23:27,700
marriage and she didn't seem to
care about how it affected, his

406
00:23:27,700 --> 00:23:32,400
feelings at all.
Because like he was so upset,

407
00:23:32,400 --> 00:23:37,500
they allowed Richard and Carolyn
to go back to Illinois.

408
00:23:37,800 --> 00:23:40,900
Well, Mom stayed in Texas with
Carl.

409
00:23:40,900 --> 00:23:44,200
That's where Carl lived.
So so he could finish out the

410
00:23:44,200 --> 00:23:46,200
school year because it was May
so you'll have like another

411
00:23:46,200 --> 00:23:51,900
month and they stayed with Sarah
and they were like, well, you

412
00:23:51,900 --> 00:23:54,600
know, maybe once he's got some
distance from the situation, you

413
00:23:54,608 --> 00:23:58,800
know, it'll be fine but like he
just sunk into a deep depression

414
00:23:58,800 --> 00:24:01,500
that nobody could pull him out
of like he'd been kind of

415
00:24:01,500 --> 00:24:05,100
failing at school before, but
now he was barely attending and

416
00:24:05,100 --> 00:24:07,300
when he did show up, he didn't
talk to anybody who was there.

417
00:24:07,600 --> 00:24:10,500
If a teacher spoke to him, it
was like, you didn't say words

418
00:24:10,500 --> 00:24:11,400
to him.
Oh, wow.

419
00:24:11,400 --> 00:24:13,700
But the school was Like, we know
he's moving.

420
00:24:13,700 --> 00:24:16,500
So like whatever was going to
pass him and like her hands, the

421
00:24:16,500 --> 00:24:20,400
situation.
So then everybody moved to the

422
00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:23,700
world town of Santo Texas, which
is about 60 miles away from Fort

423
00:24:23,700 --> 00:24:28,700
Worth Texas, and Mary kind of
got the shock of her life.

424
00:24:29,100 --> 00:24:32,800
When she walked into a house
full of empty, whiskey bottles

425
00:24:32,800 --> 00:24:39,500
in every room ashtrays the whole
house stank like old tobacco.

426
00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:42,100
Oh, so you didn't know this
before your marriage.

427
00:24:42,300 --> 00:24:45,700
The man.
Oh man, you know that and the

428
00:24:45,708 --> 00:24:49,300
thing is Carl made a lot more
money than Benjamin ever did.

429
00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:52,700
But it didn't matter because he
spent everything that he didn't

430
00:24:52,700 --> 00:24:55,200
give to marry for the
housekeeping on booze and

431
00:24:55,200 --> 00:24:58,300
tobacco.
And then when she got there, the

432
00:24:58,300 --> 00:25:02,800
town was talking about Carl's
25-year criminal history.

433
00:25:02,900 --> 00:25:08,400
Excuse me, look for jury drunk,
diving, drunk, driving.

434
00:25:08,800 --> 00:25:12,300
And you just married him after a
couple weeks, she's she's

435
00:25:12,300 --> 00:25:18,300
devastated because you know she
made a commitment to move back

436
00:25:18,300 --> 00:25:19,300
home.
It's okay.

437
00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:25,900
Well Carl wasn't okay, Dad to
Carolyn, he would like bring her

438
00:25:25,900 --> 00:25:28,400
a little like gifts and stuff
when he came back from his trips

439
00:25:28,900 --> 00:25:32,200
and he definitely kind of loved
Mary at least in the beginning,

440
00:25:32,600 --> 00:25:36,200
but he was a complete and total
piece of garbage to Richard.

441
00:25:36,500 --> 00:25:40,500
He was spiteful because the
little boy had liked him and so

442
00:25:40,500 --> 00:25:43,900
he would take any chance that he
could to verbally, like, cut him

443
00:25:43,900 --> 00:25:44,700
down.
Well, sir.

444
00:25:44,700 --> 00:25:46,800
There's a reason why I don't
like you, your asshole.

445
00:25:47,100 --> 00:25:49,800
Well and see when Richard
wouldn't respond, then Carl

446
00:25:49,800 --> 00:25:52,700
would launch into These insults
that did what they were supposed

447
00:25:52,700 --> 00:25:55,000
to, which was undermined the
like team sees.

448
00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:59,300
Tiny bit of confidence is child
had and so like, Richard been

449
00:25:59,300 --> 00:26:03,600
angry and sad and just full of
Despair for so long.

450
00:26:04,200 --> 00:26:08,700
And Carl became the face of this
monster for him.

451
00:26:09,100 --> 00:26:12,200
Carl was the reason why he was
embarrassed so easily he had

452
00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:13,600
trouble.
He was awkward.

453
00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:15,600
Carl was the problem and by
extension.

454
00:26:15,600 --> 00:26:18,800
So it was Mary and Richard kind
of put up with it.

455
00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:21,400
One day until Carl made a
comment about About his father

456
00:26:22,100 --> 00:26:26,300
and Richard swung on his stepdad
and Carl kind of just knocked

457
00:26:26,300 --> 00:26:28,100
him to the floor and laughed in
his face.

458
00:26:28,300 --> 00:26:32,600
So then Richard went and grabbed
a hammer from The Tackle Box and

459
00:26:32,600 --> 00:26:36,600
tried to attack him and Carl
slapped it away, and the hammer

460
00:26:36,800 --> 00:26:39,100
hit Richard.
And he like dropped.

461
00:26:39,100 --> 00:26:41,900
Oh, and Carl.
Can't panic because he was just

462
00:26:41,900 --> 00:26:44,400
like, there's no way anyone's
going to believe me that this

463
00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:47,700
was an accident because everyone
knows that I can't stand this

464
00:26:47,700 --> 00:26:51,200
kid.
They're going to I tried to kill

465
00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:52,600
him.
Yeah, you got motive, sir.

466
00:26:52,600 --> 00:26:55,800
I'm sorry, but and he had tried
to kill him.

467
00:26:55,800 --> 00:26:58,300
But what he did do was give
Richard A traumatic brain injury

468
00:26:58,300 --> 00:27:01,000
at the age of 10 years old and
there goes, yep.

469
00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:03,800
Always isn't it.
Well, first you said religious

470
00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:05,500
mom and then you said bring
injury.

471
00:27:05,500 --> 00:27:08,200
So I was like goddamn.
Here we go, here we go.

472
00:27:08,900 --> 00:27:15,000
Carl solution was to move and
they would move a lot in 1951.

473
00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:18,100
They moved to Dallas and the
movie with the family moved 10

474
00:27:18,100 --> 00:27:23,300
more times over the next 12
years from Chua, crappier home

475
00:27:23,300 --> 00:27:25,900
every time.
Hmm.

476
00:27:25,900 --> 00:27:29,200
Like worse than worst poverty,
as they kept going.

477
00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:33,300
And what's worse here, is that
even after the fact that like

478
00:27:33,500 --> 00:27:37,300
you, like conch to this kid in
the brain, he couldn't stop

479
00:27:37,300 --> 00:27:41,200
being awful to him.
And his mother didn't know about

480
00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:44,300
the brain injury by the way,
Richard told her, that he'd been

481
00:27:44,300 --> 00:27:47,800
playing on the tire swing near
the pond and he'd like, fall on

482
00:27:47,800 --> 00:27:50,000
and his, his his face.
Hmm.

483
00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:52,200
I would have been like, no, this
dude hit me.

484
00:27:52,200 --> 00:27:59,100
I don't like him.
Why did you not know about it?

485
00:27:59,800 --> 00:28:05,500
Well, if he had this like anger
and happening before after the

486
00:28:05,500 --> 00:28:08,700
injury, he really struggled with
keeping his emotions in check

487
00:28:08,700 --> 00:28:12,100
and he start like flying, Into
these very violent rages.

488
00:28:13,600 --> 00:28:19,900
In 1952 his brother, Robert was
hit and killed by a drunk driver

489
00:28:19,900 --> 00:28:25,100
in 1950, that was Richards.
It was that not the senior

490
00:28:25,100 --> 00:28:33,800
brother, but the one in the
middle and, He kind of blame

491
00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:38,000
himself because he was like if
we never left you know Monmouth

492
00:28:38,200 --> 00:28:40,500
then we would have all been
together and this wouldn't have

493
00:28:40,508 --> 00:28:44,600
happened, you know, and about 12
years old, he started drinking.

494
00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:49,800
Strangely enough as much as he
hated Carl and blamed Carl for

495
00:28:49,800 --> 00:28:51,400
all of the bad things in his
life.

496
00:28:51,800 --> 00:28:56,400
He also mirrored some of the
worst traits of a stepfather

497
00:28:56,400 --> 00:29:00,000
took on his bad habits and that
was the drinking and he also

498
00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:03,200
began taking the random drugs
that car left around the house

499
00:29:03,200 --> 00:29:06,300
as well.
What the hell?

500
00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:08,800
What the hell?
Yeah.

501
00:29:08,800 --> 00:29:12,600
He struggled through school.
He repeated the eighth grade and

502
00:29:12,600 --> 00:29:15,500
then he failed ninth grade and
he was just like, yeah I'm good

503
00:29:16,300 --> 00:29:18,400
and quit just before his 16th
birthday.

504
00:29:19,700 --> 00:29:21,600
Like I said, this isn't
surprising that he quit school

505
00:29:21,600 --> 00:29:24,400
because he barely spoke when he
was there and he was usually

506
00:29:24,400 --> 00:29:29,400
drunk or high when he showed up,
he got arrested the for the

507
00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:32,700
first time in 1955 when he
passed out at a construction

508
00:29:32,700 --> 00:29:36,800
site.
That's because he was wasted

509
00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:39,400
after that.
He got arrested for pretty much

510
00:29:39,400 --> 00:29:43,400
every low-level crime, plausible
that have trespassing,

511
00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:47,700
pickpocketing drunken disorderly
possession, the cops got so used

512
00:29:47,700 --> 00:29:50,400
to seeing him that sometimes, if
like a crime happened they would

513
00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:52,300
just stop by his house and be
like.

514
00:29:52,300 --> 00:29:53,500
So you know, anything about
this?

515
00:29:53,900 --> 00:29:57,800
And for some reason he didn't
lie, So he would tell them if he

516
00:29:57,800 --> 00:30:03,600
did something wrong.
I mean honest criminals by his

517
00:30:03,600 --> 00:30:06,200
late teens, he was still living
with Carl and Mary but like it

518
00:30:06,200 --> 00:30:09,600
was barely, he spent most of his
days and nights out in the

519
00:30:09,600 --> 00:30:13,300
street looking to score.
Get a little brief moment of

520
00:30:13,300 --> 00:30:16,300
relief from his depression.
If he had friends, he didn't

521
00:30:16,300 --> 00:30:21,600
really talk about him.
He was a, as he chose the

522
00:30:21,600 --> 00:30:25,900
tattoo, he was on the road to
hell and he got the infamous

523
00:30:25,900 --> 00:30:27,200
tattoo.
Ooh, that would get him caught

524
00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:29,600
eventually it says born and
raised hell on his arm.

525
00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:32,500
Oh nice.
His family was like, he's going

526
00:30:32,500 --> 00:30:33,700
to die.
They're going to knock on the

527
00:30:33,700 --> 00:30:36,100
door, and we're going to have to
go identify his body.

528
00:30:39,700 --> 00:30:41,500
Interestingly enough, what
happens?

529
00:30:41,500 --> 00:30:44,000
Next kind of change that
trajectory a little bit.

530
00:30:44,400 --> 00:30:47,300
So Carl started spending more
and more time away from home.

531
00:30:48,300 --> 00:30:52,700
He was tired of how Mary and
Caroline were always like

532
00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:58,600
worried about Richard.
And he was getting worried about

533
00:30:58,600 --> 00:31:01,800
Richard because the little boy
that he bullied and abused was

534
00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:05,700
now grown ass man and he was
like, if he wants to fight me, I

535
00:31:05,708 --> 00:31:09,400
might not be able to win.
I'm sorry.

536
00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:13,000
It's just like yeah yeah.
Consequences were you freaking

537
00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:15,600
actions dude?
Well you know people abused

538
00:31:15,600 --> 00:31:17,500
children are cowards.
Yes it's true.

539
00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:21,700
Karl used work as a means to lie
about where he was going.

540
00:31:21,700 --> 00:31:24,600
But really what he was doing was
he would go to these other

541
00:31:24,600 --> 00:31:27,500
cities and he would like find a
girl there and He would like,

542
00:31:27,500 --> 00:31:32,100
just, you know, stay at her
house and whore his way across

543
00:31:32,100 --> 00:31:35,500
the country, while trying to
sell insurance and crap.

544
00:31:35,500 --> 00:31:40,500
And drinking, he said, being
gone for weeks, then months.

545
00:31:40,700 --> 00:31:43,300
Then finally, he met a lady in
California, and moved in with

546
00:31:43,300 --> 00:31:47,400
her and her children.
And as Carl started, leaving

547
00:31:47,400 --> 00:31:50,400
more Richard started staying
home.

548
00:31:51,500 --> 00:31:55,800
And when the postcard came
saying that Carl was never

549
00:31:55,800 --> 00:32:00,600
coming back, Richard kind of
went back to normal, he quit

550
00:32:00,600 --> 00:32:03,500
drinking and doing drugs.
He got a job to help his mom and

551
00:32:03,500 --> 00:32:08,900
sister out at the 7Up Factory,
and he pretty much told them,

552
00:32:08,900 --> 00:32:10,500
I'll do whatever you want me to
do.

553
00:32:10,900 --> 00:32:13,500
It's a really crappy but it was
consistent money way, more

554
00:32:13,500 --> 00:32:17,200
consistent than him like
stealing he did begin to like

555
00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:22,500
work his way up to less awful
jobs and Funny, because he was

556
00:32:22,600 --> 00:32:24,800
making less money than Carl had
made.

557
00:32:24,800 --> 00:32:27,100
But he was giving his mother
more money because he wasn't

558
00:32:27,100 --> 00:32:29,100
drinking away every paycheck,
right, right.

559
00:32:29,200 --> 00:32:32,500
They finally had like a nice
clean Home Free from bottles and

560
00:32:32,500 --> 00:32:36,800
the stink of tobacco.
Well, Carolyn had a boyfriend

561
00:32:36,800 --> 00:32:40,900
that she was confident enough to
introduce to the rest of the

562
00:32:40,900 --> 00:32:44,200
family.
Richard was like, this is great,

563
00:32:44,200 --> 00:32:47,900
because he found Caroline's,
need to be like, nice to him

564
00:32:47,900 --> 00:32:51,100
overbearing hate like he's like,
I get it, you're my sister.

565
00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:54,800
Stir but like stop please.
No, how no kisses.

566
00:32:57,700 --> 00:33:01,700
He was very repressed.
He spent all his free time.

567
00:33:01,700 --> 00:33:05,700
Working.
One of the things that happened

568
00:33:05,700 --> 00:33:08,600
here was that he was like the
man of the house but he didn't

569
00:33:08,600 --> 00:33:13,200
have any power in the home even
though this was all of his money

570
00:33:13,200 --> 00:33:17,600
and energy being used to keep
the household running and this

571
00:33:17,600 --> 00:33:21,000
would be the first time that he
got violent with a woman.

572
00:33:21,500 --> 00:33:24,700
One night, he was trying to talk
to his mom about something and

573
00:33:24,700 --> 00:33:29,900
she dismissed his opinion and he
beat the crap out of her, two

574
00:33:29,900 --> 00:33:33,600
broken eyes and a broken cheek.
He was 19.

575
00:33:33,700 --> 00:33:37,100
My God that like I said, the
first time he was violent

576
00:33:37,100 --> 00:33:40,200
towards women and it wouldn't be
the last time he started

577
00:33:40,200 --> 00:33:42,800
drinking again because he used
to get these horrible headaches.

578
00:33:43,800 --> 00:33:46,600
Obviously from the hammer he
took to the head as a

579
00:33:46,700 --> 00:33:51,200
ten-year-old, you know, he never
got checked out because no one I

580
00:33:51,208 --> 00:33:55,900
knew about it, Carolyn and Mary
would smell the whiskey when he

581
00:33:55,900 --> 00:33:59,800
came in the door and just avoid
him for the rest of the night.

582
00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:02,500
Because they were like, he's
gonna hurt his sister.

583
00:34:02,500 --> 00:34:06,400
Next, probably the violence
against Mary was seeing kind of

584
00:34:06,400 --> 00:34:10,199
differently by both women.
Mary felt she deserved it

585
00:34:11,500 --> 00:34:14,500
because she married Carl and
Carl had been abusive.

586
00:34:15,100 --> 00:34:18,100
However, Carolyn was blindsided
by this violence, and she was

587
00:34:18,100 --> 00:34:20,400
very confused.
She always saw the best in her

588
00:34:20,400 --> 00:34:24,900
brother.
And so with this like confusion

589
00:34:24,900 --> 00:34:28,400
in her way, she viewed him, she
started like focusing on her

590
00:34:28,400 --> 00:34:33,699
relationship with her boyfriend
who she invited to be at the

591
00:34:33,707 --> 00:34:39,300
house more often.
After that, that person became

592
00:34:39,300 --> 00:34:42,600
her husband, they got married,
and he moved into the household.

593
00:34:42,600 --> 00:34:48,600
Her husband tentatively accepted
Richard as the sort of weirdo of

594
00:34:48,600 --> 00:34:53,699
the family, but this was another
male income in the house, so

595
00:34:53,699 --> 00:34:56,300
everybody was kind of living
comfortably now, mmm.

596
00:34:57,400 --> 00:35:01,600
Nice, nice.
Now, Richard was very like

597
00:35:01,600 --> 00:35:03,700
introverted.
He didn't really enjoy doing

598
00:35:03,700 --> 00:35:07,100
pretty much anything social he
specially didn't want to do

599
00:35:07,100 --> 00:35:09,800
things with his family, but
there was one thing he liked.

600
00:35:10,700 --> 00:35:13,900
The Texas state fair.
It's one of the biggest in the

601
00:35:13,900 --> 00:35:16,700
country and supposed to be one
of the best like state fairs to

602
00:35:16,700 --> 00:35:20,800
visit and in 1961 he was there
and he met a girl.

603
00:35:21,300 --> 00:35:25,100
Her name was surely an app
Malone, she was 15 and he was

604
00:35:25,100 --> 00:35:27,900
22.
She assumed that he was younger

605
00:35:27,900 --> 00:35:31,200
because he kind of Acts a little
bit younger and they were both

606
00:35:31,200 --> 00:35:36,400
there like with their parents.
Women and sexuality were a sore

607
00:35:36,400 --> 00:35:39,700
subject for Richard, his whole
life religion had told him that

608
00:35:39,700 --> 00:35:42,700
sex and sexuality.
Body were wrong and so like, he

609
00:35:42,700 --> 00:35:47,400
viewed like his mom and his
sister as like pure and perfect.

610
00:35:47,400 --> 00:35:50,900
And so he pushed down like the
feelings of Desire that he has

611
00:35:50,900 --> 00:35:54,000
for years.
And so when he first meets,

612
00:35:54,000 --> 00:35:57,600
surely he definitely views her
in the same way like she's just

613
00:35:57,600 --> 00:36:02,800
like beautiful virginal girl and
like that day.

614
00:36:03,100 --> 00:36:06,200
Like they spent the day
together, they held hands.

615
00:36:06,400 --> 00:36:11,200
And both the families thought
that this was really cute, that

616
00:36:11,200 --> 00:36:14,300
his family, never mind their
goodbyes at dusk.

617
00:36:14,300 --> 00:36:17,000
They learn that they both lived
in Dallas and I like, oh, we'll

618
00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:21,400
meet up in Dallas.
Back in Dallas, things moved a

619
00:36:21,408 --> 00:36:23,500
little quickly.
Richard didn't know what a

620
00:36:23,500 --> 00:36:27,300
relationship was supposed to
look like having only seen his

621
00:36:27,300 --> 00:36:30,200
stuck father or lecherous Carl,
hmm.

622
00:36:30,700 --> 00:36:33,600
So he was like, I like to go
drinking.

623
00:36:33,600 --> 00:36:37,800
You want to go drinking with me?
Yes, let's go.

624
00:36:38,300 --> 00:36:40,200
He will win.
You think that wasted day

625
00:36:40,200 --> 00:36:45,200
drinking and they ended up on a
construction site, having sex

626
00:36:45,800 --> 00:36:47,900
and they both seem to really
enjoy this.

627
00:36:47,900 --> 00:36:50,700
So they Added doing it all the
time.

628
00:36:50,900 --> 00:36:53,900
Okay.
I mean moderations a good thing

629
00:36:53,900 --> 00:36:54,800
too.
Nope.

630
00:36:54,900 --> 00:36:58,100
Richard was that not a lot of
his repressed Sexual Energy from

631
00:36:58,100 --> 00:37:01,300
his entire childhood.
Shirley was like, we are

632
00:37:01,300 --> 00:37:05,700
obviously in love and Richard
was like, yeah, well seal of

633
00:37:05,700 --> 00:37:08,200
same, all right.
Same thing works for me.

634
00:37:08,900 --> 00:37:11,300
So, like it was interesting.
Cause remember, I told you that

635
00:37:11,300 --> 00:37:13,000
he used women is like, perfect
and pure.

636
00:37:13,000 --> 00:37:14,800
Uh-huh.
So he was just like, well, you

637
00:37:14,800 --> 00:37:16,800
know, I bet you she wouldn't do
this stuff.

638
00:37:16,800 --> 00:37:19,200
If we hadn't drank all day,
like, that's I thought I've been

639
00:37:19,200 --> 00:37:24,300
corrupting her so he was just
like, it's fine outside of the

640
00:37:24,308 --> 00:37:26,800
fact that like she gets wasted
and we have sex.

641
00:37:27,100 --> 00:37:28,800
It's still perfect.
Beautiful virginal.

642
00:37:28,800 --> 00:37:31,500
Surely well, maybe you sucking
so wasted.

643
00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:41,100
Maybe well he was happy, nothing
mattered, Young Love and then

644
00:37:41,100 --> 00:37:45,900
they were pregnant.
Yay weeks later.

645
00:37:46,100 --> 00:37:50,700
Oh, lovely.
So they were supposed to go out

646
00:37:50,700 --> 00:37:53,000
on a date and he was like, yo,
you want to go to the bar?

647
00:37:53,000 --> 00:37:56,100
And she's like, I can't, why are
you not high?

648
00:37:56,100 --> 00:37:59,600
So she's like, hey, can we go
talk and there?

649
00:37:59,600 --> 00:38:02,500
She told him she was pregnant,
both of their family was like,

650
00:38:02,500 --> 00:38:04,600
oh yeah.
Y'all got to get married, of

651
00:38:04,600 --> 00:38:05,100
course.
Yeah.

652
00:38:05,300 --> 00:38:09,500
So and they organized it so that
like, it was very fast so that

653
00:38:09,500 --> 00:38:13,100
she was not showing Shirley's
family, definitely expected him

654
00:38:13,100 --> 00:38:15,200
to To do the right thing and he
absolutely married her.

655
00:38:15,500 --> 00:38:17,400
She moved into the house with
his mom and his sister.

656
00:38:17,400 --> 00:38:20,600
And her husband Mary began
teaching her.

657
00:38:20,600 --> 00:38:23,800
All the wifely thing she would
do to be a good Homemaker.

658
00:38:24,300 --> 00:38:26,100
It wasn't the worst situation
imaginable.

659
00:38:28,900 --> 00:38:37,700
I hear a but coming first, see
these thoughts popped in for him

660
00:38:37,700 --> 00:38:40,400
when he met surely.
She was that beautiful perfect

661
00:38:40,400 --> 00:38:44,200
virgin now she's not she's
pregnant, she's a whore.

662
00:38:44,900 --> 00:38:49,000
You did it to her.
Well, I gets worse one night,

663
00:38:49,000 --> 00:38:53,700
she declined him because she was
tired and he held her down and

664
00:38:53,700 --> 00:38:57,000
he physically beat her and
sexually assaulted her.

665
00:38:57,100 --> 00:39:00,900
Mmm.
In fact, she refused to have sex

666
00:39:00,900 --> 00:39:03,900
with him from that point forward
and he it pretty much was a

667
00:39:03,908 --> 00:39:07,400
daily occurrence that he would
beat the crap out of her and

668
00:39:07,600 --> 00:39:11,000
rape her and Shirley was in a
terrible position.

669
00:39:11,000 --> 00:39:13,400
She's pregnant.
She's married to this monster.

670
00:39:13,600 --> 00:39:16,600
She doesn't have a job and she
doesn't think she can go home

671
00:39:16,900 --> 00:39:18,600
her.
Only friends were Carolyn and

672
00:39:18,600 --> 00:39:21,400
Mary who were also both afraid
of him.

673
00:39:21,400 --> 00:39:23,700
Yeah.
Even more.

674
00:39:23,700 --> 00:39:31,100
So after seeing what he done to
her, Wasn't the sister's husband

675
00:39:31,100 --> 00:39:35,100
was still in the he was, and I
wonder about that.

676
00:39:36,600 --> 00:39:38,900
It's a rough situation because
there's definitely a time period

677
00:39:38,900 --> 00:39:43,200
in the past where it was like,
maybe he beats his wife.

678
00:39:44,900 --> 00:39:50,400
I'm not a business to business.
Hmm so I wonder if it was like

679
00:39:50,400 --> 00:39:53,100
that for them.
Yeah but everybody in the house

680
00:39:53,100 --> 00:39:55,000
is afraid of him though.
The webinar.

681
00:39:55,000 --> 00:39:56,700
Yeah.
So he hasn't do anything when

682
00:39:56,700 --> 00:39:59,400
the other man's around, of
course.

683
00:39:59,400 --> 00:40:00,600
Not.
Okay.

684
00:40:01,200 --> 00:40:02,600
Well Richard stop taking extra
shifts.

685
00:40:02,600 --> 00:40:04,500
He started drinking the
headaches again.

686
00:40:05,000 --> 00:40:07,700
He was violent to pretty much
ends our to everyone in the

687
00:40:07,707 --> 00:40:10,300
house when the Boos stopped
helping with the headaches, he

688
00:40:10,300 --> 00:40:12,800
turned a pills.
He started poly abusing drugs

689
00:40:12,800 --> 00:40:14,400
trying to find a way to
self-medicate.

690
00:40:14,500 --> 00:40:18,400
It still abusing his wife pretty
much every day, eventually

691
00:40:18,400 --> 00:40:22,000
started going back out onto the
street and like not coming home,

692
00:40:23,600 --> 00:40:26,300
which did make the women in the
household feel safer.

693
00:40:26,300 --> 00:40:28,200
But financially, they were like
fuck.

694
00:40:28,300 --> 00:40:29,300
Yeah.
You struggling.

695
00:40:29,300 --> 00:40:32,100
Again.
Carolyn's has the most like

696
00:40:32,100 --> 00:40:34,900
listen, I can't pay for two
wives and a mother-in-law and

697
00:40:34,900 --> 00:40:38,700
me.
Cop started seeing Richard down

698
00:40:38,700 --> 00:40:41,800
at the precinct again.
And when the heat from the

699
00:40:41,808 --> 00:40:44,600
Dallas PD was too much, he would
hop on a train to a new town and

700
00:40:44,600 --> 00:40:49,100
start fights there.
Why just don't fight because

701
00:40:49,400 --> 00:40:51,300
vitamin feel better.
Oh my God.

702
00:40:51,400 --> 00:40:55,200
Surely kind of held onto the
foolish notion that, you know,

703
00:40:55,200 --> 00:40:59,500
he's gonna get clean, and he's
gonna get better for the baby

704
00:41:00,200 --> 00:41:05,900
and She really gave birth to
Robbie Lynn's back on, July 5th.

705
00:41:05,900 --> 00:41:08,900
1962.
And she was definitely alone

706
00:41:08,900 --> 00:41:12,900
when it happened, and that's
because he was in prison.

707
00:41:13,100 --> 00:41:16,300
In, McKinney Texas, for putting
a man in the hospital during a

708
00:41:16,300 --> 00:41:20,300
bar fight, when he came back to
Dallas, Shirley and his daughter

709
00:41:20,300 --> 00:41:24,800
were gone, He tried to very much
like insult and berate the

710
00:41:24,800 --> 00:41:27,900
information of his mom and
sister but they were like, no

711
00:41:27,900 --> 00:41:28,800
thanks.
Hmm.

712
00:41:29,800 --> 00:41:32,800
He was miserable not just
because surely the horror

713
00:41:32,800 --> 00:41:36,900
thought poorly of him but
because his mom and sister who,

714
00:41:36,900 --> 00:41:40,300
you know, are definitely still
virginal Angels were mad at him.

715
00:41:42,600 --> 00:41:45,000
Okay, so he quits drinking.
He's like, I'm going to prove to

716
00:41:45,000 --> 00:41:46,900
my mom and my sister.
I'm a good man.

717
00:41:47,100 --> 00:41:50,800
He got his job back.
But he started drinking again,

718
00:41:50,800 --> 00:41:54,400
and now, it was, like, starting
fights at work and like he knew

719
00:41:54,400 --> 00:41:56,900
he was going to get fired and
then he did something kind of

720
00:41:56,900 --> 00:41:59,900
stupid.
So the employee checks would all

721
00:41:59,900 --> 00:42:02,400
get like, put together at the
end of the week and this one

722
00:42:02,400 --> 00:42:04,600
spot.
And so, Richard grabbed his

723
00:42:04,600 --> 00:42:06,700
check, and another man's, check
course, he did.

724
00:42:06,800 --> 00:42:09,300
And he forged his coworker
signature and cashed it.

725
00:42:09,500 --> 00:42:11,400
And then he like got real
paranoid.

726
00:42:11,400 --> 00:42:13,500
He was like, they're going to
show up at my door.

727
00:42:13,700 --> 00:42:18,400
I'm gonna get arrested.
Oh my God. and so then he was

728
00:42:18,400 --> 00:42:23,400
like, when the police didn't
show up unlike Sunday, he like

729
00:42:23,400 --> 00:42:28,100
broke into a grocery store and
Because he didn't realize that

730
00:42:28,100 --> 00:42:31,900
like they empty the money out.
Yeah which is what every

731
00:42:31,900 --> 00:42:33,900
business does and you always do
that because you never want to

732
00:42:33,900 --> 00:42:35,900
have like a pile of cash on
saying no sir.

733
00:42:38,900 --> 00:42:41,800
He was only able to steal three
dollars that was left in the

734
00:42:41,800 --> 00:42:44,700
till.
He also stole some beer after

735
00:42:44,700 --> 00:42:49,400
realizing what a terrible Vivi
was, and then he went to work

736
00:42:49,700 --> 00:42:54,100
and he was promptly fired on the
spot because they were like,

737
00:42:54,900 --> 00:42:56,700
you're the only person who would
do this.

738
00:42:56,800 --> 00:43:00,400
And so he assumed the police
already knew everything.

739
00:43:00,600 --> 00:43:06,200
So, he told them, he admitted to
the fraud and the burglary, even

740
00:43:06,200 --> 00:43:08,500
though they didn't know anything
about it.

741
00:43:08,900 --> 00:43:10,500
Thanks for the info.
Yep.

742
00:43:10,500 --> 00:43:12,100
He just assumed they are.
They knew that's why they were

743
00:43:12,100 --> 00:43:15,400
there at his job.
And so he admitted to fraud and

744
00:43:15,400 --> 00:43:18,500
burglary charges and he was
gonna go to jail for a total of

745
00:43:18,500 --> 00:43:23,400
forty seven dollars which in our
money we're talking about 300

746
00:43:23,400 --> 00:43:25,400
bucks.
So come on.

747
00:43:25,400 --> 00:43:31,000
No that's not, no, he's playing
prison at Huntsville.

748
00:43:32,200 --> 00:43:37,300
Given a 60-month sense.
Yeah. 12:18 year and a half.

749
00:43:37,700 --> 00:43:39,500
Sorry Batman.
My part.

750
00:43:43,200 --> 00:43:46,800
He honestly was mostly left
alone in the prison because he

751
00:43:46,800 --> 00:43:50,800
was emotionally unstable and
they were just like, we're just

752
00:43:50,800 --> 00:43:55,100
gonna leave this weirdo alone,
he made it through that I did

753
00:43:55,100 --> 00:43:57,300
right 60 months.
Yeah I was wrong, 60 months in

754
00:43:57,300 --> 00:44:01,800
prison unharmed but covered in
jail has tattoos when he came

755
00:44:01,800 --> 00:44:04,300
back home.
A lot had changed Carolyn and

756
00:44:04,300 --> 00:44:06,400
her husband had moved out
because they were expecting a

757
00:44:06,400 --> 00:44:09,600
baby.
So Mary was like, sure you can

758
00:44:09,600 --> 00:44:14,200
come back but she was like
smothering him and He hated it.

759
00:44:14,300 --> 00:44:18,900
Also, now without Caroline's
husband, to stop Richard, he was

760
00:44:18,900 --> 00:44:23,300
able to like help his mom, bro
information about Shirley

761
00:44:24,900 --> 00:44:28,500
Shirley originally struggled,
but she had gotten contributions

762
00:44:28,500 --> 00:44:33,800
from her church, from Carolyn
and Mary, and her own mother,

763
00:44:33,800 --> 00:44:36,300
had helped her.
And, you know, she kind of

764
00:44:36,300 --> 00:44:37,500
bounced back.
She was doing.

765
00:44:37,500 --> 00:44:39,000
All right.
She had a baby, she met this

766
00:44:39,000 --> 00:44:42,000
guy, his name.
All Richard knew was that his

767
00:44:42,000 --> 00:44:42,800
name was mr.
Price.

768
00:44:43,000 --> 00:44:45,700
Ice and they were kind of taking
it slow until mr.

769
00:44:45,700 --> 00:44:50,200
Price realize that, that she was
like popo like he was like, oh,

770
00:44:50,200 --> 00:44:51,800
this is really bad.
She shouldn't be living this

771
00:44:51,800 --> 00:44:53,300
way.
And so he kind of like

772
00:44:53,300 --> 00:44:56,000
fast-track their relationship
and so he was going to like

773
00:44:56,500 --> 00:44:58,900
marry her, but she was still
married.

774
00:45:03,200 --> 00:45:06,500
Richard took this information,
okay?

775
00:45:06,500 --> 00:45:10,900
First one thing it did was it,
solidified in his mind Shirley

776
00:45:10,900 --> 00:45:13,800
is definitely a whore.
Like all women are whores and

777
00:45:13,800 --> 00:45:16,600
this is totally her fault.
Not mine because all women are

778
00:45:16,600 --> 00:45:18,300
whores.
Yeah, of course, not my fault.

779
00:45:18,300 --> 00:45:23,800
I didn't do anything here.
So, January 9th, 1965 a week

780
00:45:24,100 --> 00:45:26,900
after being released because he
was actually released after only

781
00:45:26,900 --> 00:45:30,500
doing 12 months parole.
He got wasted.

782
00:45:30,500 --> 00:45:34,300
He spent the last of his money
on on booze and attack a random

783
00:45:34,300 --> 00:45:36,600
woman on the street.
Oh my God, he got caught a few

784
00:45:36,600 --> 00:45:39,200
blocks away and was convicted of
aggravated assault and put in

785
00:45:39,200 --> 00:45:43,700
prison again for 16 more months
back to Huntsville.

786
00:45:44,800 --> 00:45:49,900
But what happened is that He
ended up getting let out early

787
00:45:49,900 --> 00:45:52,000
because we supposed to be
concurrent sentences.

788
00:45:52,300 --> 00:45:54,700
So he got released 10 months
early because of a clerical

789
00:45:54,700 --> 00:45:58,100
error, the system was like, oh,
he's just back in for a parole

790
00:45:58,100 --> 00:46:00,900
violation.
Not a parole violation and 60,

791
00:46:00,900 --> 00:46:03,200
more months.
So he reached out to his mom.

792
00:46:03,200 --> 00:46:05,700
Again, he got a job at a
Meatpacking plant.

793
00:46:06,000 --> 00:46:08,500
Now, he was an ex-con twice
over, so he didn't have a whole

794
00:46:08,500 --> 00:46:11,900
lot of choices for work.
He worked there for three months

795
00:46:12,200 --> 00:46:13,800
dry.
He was a delivery driver.

796
00:46:13,800 --> 00:46:19,200
He got in six accidents and
somehow Didn't fire him until he

797
00:46:19,200 --> 00:46:20,600
just didn't show up enough
times.

798
00:46:20,600 --> 00:46:23,000
Are you serious?
I mean that, that tracks.

799
00:46:25,000 --> 00:46:27,700
He very like he got.
He made a friend with a lady who

800
00:46:27,700 --> 00:46:29,300
owned a bar and her name is
Jenny.

801
00:46:29,300 --> 00:46:31,600
It was called Jimmy's Lounge.
Ginny was cool.

802
00:46:31,600 --> 00:46:36,500
She's 29 years old, X pro
wrestler, who like it be

803
00:46:36,500 --> 00:46:39,400
feeling.
And so he started spending all

804
00:46:39,400 --> 00:46:41,400
his time here, but like, it
wasn't just to drink.

805
00:46:41,400 --> 00:46:44,200
It was also like to flirt with
Jenny, I mean, who am I like

806
00:46:44,200 --> 00:46:49,200
this busy?
Body Mary was like, where's he

807
00:46:49,200 --> 00:46:51,400
going?
So like one day, she like

808
00:46:51,400 --> 00:46:54,200
followed him when he left the
house and saw him.

809
00:46:54,200 --> 00:46:56,800
Go to James Barr and she's like,
ah crap.

810
00:46:56,800 --> 00:46:59,900
He's drinking again.
So she went inside to look and

811
00:46:59,900 --> 00:47:01,300
there.
She saw him like sitting at the

812
00:47:01,300 --> 00:47:06,500
bar, like, just talking, mmm to
Jenny and like, it raptured by

813
00:47:06,500 --> 00:47:11,000
Jenny and like, and she's like,
oh, he likes a lady.

814
00:47:11,200 --> 00:47:14,900
So like she, when he came home,
she like started trying to like

815
00:47:15,500 --> 00:47:17,300
get information.
So is there?

816
00:47:17,300 --> 00:47:20,000
A new woman in your life.
What's going on?

817
00:47:20,900 --> 00:47:24,700
And she really wanted him to
like she really wanted to

818
00:47:24,700 --> 00:47:27,200
encourage him with this
relationship because Mary only

819
00:47:27,200 --> 00:47:30,600
had a part-time job and Richard
didn't have any money and she

820
00:47:30,600 --> 00:47:34,500
wanted him out.
So she kind of manipulated him

821
00:47:34,500 --> 00:47:38,000
into thinking that he should be
a father figure to Jenny's

822
00:47:38,000 --> 00:47:42,200
children because he very much
was like upset about the whole.

823
00:47:42,200 --> 00:47:46,300
I can't see my kid thing.
So what's really happening was

824
00:47:46,300 --> 00:47:49,000
that he would watch Jenny's kids
and then he would spend the

825
00:47:49,008 --> 00:47:53,200
night with Jimmy.
She got a free babysitter and he

826
00:47:53,200 --> 00:47:57,100
had his lust sated and his mom
wasn't bothering him, but he's

827
00:47:57,100 --> 00:47:57,900
nice.
Okay.

828
00:47:57,900 --> 00:48:00,700
When win-win of course, Richard
can't just take joy, this nice

829
00:48:00,700 --> 00:48:03,100
arrangement.
He started kind of getting

830
00:48:03,100 --> 00:48:05,100
bothered by the fact that the
seem a little transactional for

831
00:48:05,100 --> 00:48:07,700
him.
So he started sneaking down to

832
00:48:07,700 --> 00:48:09,700
the bar while she was working at
night.

833
00:48:11,900 --> 00:48:15,300
And he found out.
Okay, so this mmm, this is one

834
00:48:15,300 --> 00:48:19,400
thing that really irks me.
January of, nineteen fifty-five,

835
00:48:19,400 --> 00:48:24,500
surely Falls for divorce.
Mary's, the one who told him.

836
00:48:28,200 --> 00:48:32,500
Even though Richard is separated
for years and living with

837
00:48:32,500 --> 00:48:36,600
another woman.
Hmm, he is enraged why?

838
00:48:38,900 --> 00:48:44,600
Cuz You got another lady,
doesn't matter who cares that

839
00:48:44,600 --> 00:48:50,100
night he was downstairs and he
like saw a customer like give

840
00:48:50,100 --> 00:48:54,100
money to Jenny and like hold her
hand too long and he freaked out

841
00:48:54,300 --> 00:48:56,900
starts beatin the crap out of
this guy.

842
00:48:58,100 --> 00:49:02,800
He ended up being the man until
Jenny and some of the customers

843
00:49:02,800 --> 00:49:07,800
friends like through him outside
And then she ran over to the pay

844
00:49:07,800 --> 00:49:11,700
phone to call 911 and then he
like pulled out his knife and

845
00:49:11,700 --> 00:49:14,700
nearly attacked her because he
thought it was one of the men

846
00:49:14,700 --> 00:49:18,300
like she was shocked.
She's like, this is the guy who

847
00:49:18,400 --> 00:49:21,600
I, yeah, leave around my
children, exactly.

848
00:49:21,800 --> 00:49:26,400
So she never spoke to him again.
Because it was a stabbing.

849
00:49:26,400 --> 00:49:29,400
The police took him in for
questioning and for the first

850
00:49:29,400 --> 00:49:34,800
time in this criminal record,
someone was like, maybe maybe he

851
00:49:34,800 --> 00:49:40,200
has some mental problems.
Because the way the cops up that

852
00:49:40,200 --> 00:49:42,400
it was that his previous crimes
had all been a means for him to

853
00:49:42,400 --> 00:49:44,500
get drugs or alcohol.
But this was kind of the first

854
00:49:44,500 --> 00:49:47,700
crime of passion for him, and
the cops kind of took pity on

855
00:49:47,700 --> 00:49:49,400
him.
When they realized that he'd

856
00:49:49,400 --> 00:49:51,500
attacked, the man who'd been
flirting with his girlfriend.

857
00:49:51,700 --> 00:49:54,300
And I like this and he was just
defending his honor and the

858
00:49:54,300 --> 00:49:55,900
fight got a little bit out of
hand.

859
00:49:56,000 --> 00:49:58,500
I'm pretty sure you pulled a
knife out and like it ain't get

860
00:49:58,500 --> 00:50:00,000
out of here.
It just started out of hand.

861
00:50:00,600 --> 00:50:02,300
Well, yeah, because the other
guy wasn't aware that it was

862
00:50:02,300 --> 00:50:03,300
gonna be a fight.
Exactly.

863
00:50:03,300 --> 00:50:05,800
He's just paying for his
alcohol.

864
00:50:09,300 --> 00:50:11,900
The local police actually
running on a push for jail time

865
00:50:11,900 --> 00:50:14,400
but because of his previous
arrests they just couldn't

866
00:50:14,400 --> 00:50:15,800
ignore it.
Mary.

867
00:50:15,800 --> 00:50:18,300
Mary realized if he went back to
court he was going to serve for

868
00:50:18,300 --> 00:50:21,800
a really long time.
So she got like a warrior for

869
00:50:21,800 --> 00:50:26,300
him and the lawyer argued
everything down to a misdemeanor

870
00:50:26,300 --> 00:50:27,900
of creating a public
disturbance.

871
00:50:28,200 --> 00:50:31,900
He took a plea deal and agreed
to pay $10, which he couldn't

872
00:50:31,900 --> 00:50:33,700
pay because he was broke.
So they put him in jail for

873
00:50:33,700 --> 00:50:36,200
three days, okay?
He did his time, he went back to

874
00:50:36,200 --> 00:50:40,200
Mary's house but He was pretty
convinced that Mary didn't want

875
00:50:40,200 --> 00:50:42,500
him there, and he knew he
couldn't go to Jimmy's house

876
00:50:42,800 --> 00:50:46,500
because he was like, she might
be my ass, and she's big enough

877
00:50:46,500 --> 00:50:48,100
to do.
I'm pretty sure she would.

878
00:50:48,600 --> 00:50:51,900
Hmm, he started working like,
odd jobs, to make money and move

879
00:50:51,900 --> 00:50:54,400
out.
You still drinking Polly abusing

880
00:50:54,400 --> 00:50:56,600
any drugs.
Could get his hand on after

881
00:50:56,600 --> 00:50:57,900
about two months.
He see it, but a little bit of

882
00:50:57,908 --> 00:50:59,700
money and he bought a car from a
guy.

883
00:50:59,700 --> 00:51:02,500
He met at a bar.
His plan was to drive somewhere

884
00:51:02,500 --> 00:51:05,400
and start a new life because in
his mind Dallas was just a whole

885
00:51:05,400 --> 00:51:09,100
lot of bad memories.
The car was a crappy investment.

886
00:51:09,100 --> 00:51:12,100
So he was like, I'm going to
break into a shop and still 70

887
00:51:12,100 --> 00:51:14,600
cartons of cigarettes out of
back and he starts selling my

888
00:51:14,607 --> 00:51:18,000
the back of his car.
He realized that everybody who

889
00:51:18,000 --> 00:51:22,800
bought those cigarettes from him
was a witness so he abandons the

890
00:51:22,800 --> 00:51:27,600
car and grabs the cash a warrant
out for his arrest the next day

891
00:51:27,900 --> 00:51:30,100
because he had been in the car
and it still had all of the

892
00:51:30,100 --> 00:51:34,400
papers in it and so they went
and they talked to the owner and

893
00:51:34,400 --> 00:51:36,600
the older was like oh yeah I
still do this guy Richard.

894
00:51:37,000 --> 00:51:39,700
And so he hadn't abandoned
house, he showed up at his mom's

895
00:51:39,700 --> 00:51:41,200
house.
And she was like, you need to

896
00:51:41,200 --> 00:51:46,200
get the hell out of here.
My neighbors already say they're

897
00:51:46,200 --> 00:51:48,500
looking for you.
When she's like if you get

898
00:51:48,500 --> 00:51:50,200
caught, you're going to jail for
a long time.

899
00:51:50,200 --> 00:51:53,900
This would be his 42nd arrest.
Oh, my God, in Dallas.

900
00:51:54,300 --> 00:51:57,600
So Caroline shows up in her
husband's car drives into a bus

901
00:51:57,600 --> 00:52:00,800
station, and buys them, a ticket
to Chicago to avoid, going to

902
00:52:00,800 --> 00:52:05,000
jail.
I mean, hey, he's family.

903
00:52:06,800 --> 00:52:09,900
So he goes to Chicago.
His older sister, Martha picks

904
00:52:09,900 --> 00:52:12,200
him up.
Martha was a lot older than him,

905
00:52:12,200 --> 00:52:14,500
so they barely had any of a
relationship because she was

906
00:52:14,500 --> 00:52:17,900
already moved out of the house.
By the time, he was like, born.

907
00:52:19,400 --> 00:52:22,200
I'm she had a husband and his
name was Jean Thornton and Jean

908
00:52:22,200 --> 00:52:26,400
didn't really like Richard, but
he was like, I'm a grin and bear

909
00:52:26,400 --> 00:52:30,200
this, this is my like wife's
younger brother, he's a bum, but

910
00:52:30,200 --> 00:52:34,300
whatever.
So Jean very much was like,

911
00:52:34,300 --> 00:52:36,700
yeah, you know what, you should
move back to Monmouth.

912
00:52:36,700 --> 00:52:42,500
Didn't you love Mom meth?
And like within days they would

913
00:52:42,500 --> 00:52:46,100
have mom lost her.
Mom is freaking like, yeah, I

914
00:52:46,100 --> 00:52:48,100
know you just came here but
guess what?

915
00:52:48,700 --> 00:52:50,400
There's a better.
Please, listen, his last

916
00:52:50,400 --> 00:52:53,700
surviving, brother Howard, the
oldest picks him up and gives

917
00:52:53,700 --> 00:52:57,200
him a job and while richer was
still drinking, a lot of his

918
00:52:57,200 --> 00:53:01,600
paycheck, he did better there.
Howard tried to, like, What is

919
00:53:01,600 --> 00:53:03,700
baby brother?
But the two had very different

920
00:53:03,700 --> 00:53:07,200
Lifestyles like how it was just
like a straight-laced kind of

921
00:53:07,200 --> 00:53:12,400
dude, and Richard was a druggie.
So when Richard moved out to a

922
00:53:12,408 --> 00:53:17,500
hotel on March 25th that year,
he was pretty happy about it.

923
00:53:19,500 --> 00:53:22,100
He ended up getting into a bar
fight shortly after moving into

924
00:53:22,100 --> 00:53:24,200
the hotel, spent a couple days
in jail.

925
00:53:24,400 --> 00:53:27,000
His job didn't fire him, but
they were like if you miss one

926
00:53:27,000 --> 00:53:30,100
more day we're going to kick you
out like before when he had

927
00:53:30,100 --> 00:53:32,800
gotten reprimanded at work, he
started becoming abusive to his

928
00:53:32,800 --> 00:53:35,900
co-workers.
And while he was a really good

929
00:53:35,900 --> 00:53:38,700
worker, he really brought the
morale down.

930
00:53:40,900 --> 00:53:43,700
Part of his sour mood is that
because he hadn't had sex since

931
00:53:43,700 --> 00:53:45,900
January.
Well, that's your own fault,

932
00:53:45,900 --> 00:53:47,800
sir.
And so he was kind of jonesing

933
00:53:47,800 --> 00:53:52,100
for a fix and then his mother is
a genius, send him a letter

934
00:53:52,100 --> 00:53:55,800
saying that the divorce had been
granted because he'd missed all

935
00:53:55,800 --> 00:54:03,100
the court dates.
So so wait, okay, so she filed

936
00:54:03,100 --> 00:54:04,800
for divorce and he got into the
fight and January.

937
00:54:04,800 --> 00:54:08,200
Yeah, three months later after
he know what was going on the

938
00:54:08,200 --> 00:54:10,700
court system, he was avoiding
the court system, so he

939
00:54:10,700 --> 00:54:12,900
definitely wasn't going to show
up to court always in.

940
00:54:15,500 --> 00:54:21,000
So he went right back on his
bullshit, drinking drugs and now

941
00:54:21,000 --> 00:54:23,600
he picked up a new crime that he
really liked rape.

942
00:54:24,900 --> 00:54:26,800
His first cry.
His first victim was Virgil

943
00:54:26,800 --> 00:54:28,700
Harris.
She's in her 60s.

944
00:54:28,700 --> 00:54:31,500
She lived in one of the homes
that Richard liked to hang out

945
00:54:31,500 --> 00:54:34,300
him when they were being built.
When he was a teenager, I can

946
00:54:34,300 --> 00:54:36,300
you get high and, like, Squat
and those houses.

947
00:54:36,800 --> 00:54:39,700
So, he's familiar with the area
and he noticed, she lived alone.

948
00:54:40,200 --> 00:54:42,700
He very much.
Watched waited, and plan this

949
00:54:42,700 --> 00:54:46,300
attack against her April 3rd.
He breaks into her house, ties

950
00:54:46,300 --> 00:54:51,000
her up blindfolds, her assaults
her, Rob's her, and then says,

951
00:54:51,000 --> 00:54:53,600
thank you and good night on the
way out.

952
00:54:56,000 --> 00:54:59,100
But Richards, rage still wasn't
stated though, because she was

953
00:54:59,100 --> 00:55:03,300
like older, he kind of held her
in this Dame esteem as his

954
00:55:03,300 --> 00:55:08,600
mother and therefore he could
not you her, like he viewed the

955
00:55:08,600 --> 00:55:11,400
young Horrors that he wanted to
punish.

956
00:55:12,400 --> 00:55:14,800
Oh, so you're gonna punish her
now well.

957
00:55:14,800 --> 00:55:19,600
So week later, he's out drinking
and a female bartender makes a

958
00:55:19,607 --> 00:55:21,900
joke about him and he gets real
upset.

959
00:55:22,300 --> 00:55:28,700
And so near this bar was Was
like a little farm type area and

960
00:55:28,700 --> 00:55:32,000
he had been one of the day
laborers who had helped build up

961
00:55:32,000 --> 00:55:34,700
part of this farm.
Specifically, a pig pen has

962
00:55:34,700 --> 00:55:37,800
something that he had done.
So he kind of want, you know,

963
00:55:37,800 --> 00:55:40,300
storms out and they standing
near the pig pen and the

964
00:55:40,300 --> 00:55:42,700
bartender.
Mary, Kay Pierce comes out and

965
00:55:42,707 --> 00:55:47,400
apologizes to him and he punches
her in the stomach with such

966
00:55:47,400 --> 00:55:50,000
force that he ruptured her
liver.

967
00:55:52,000 --> 00:55:56,900
He dragged her deeper into the
pig pad and he was going to rape

968
00:55:56,900 --> 00:56:01,000
her but she fought back and she
managed to like, unsettle the

969
00:56:01,008 --> 00:56:03,900
pigs to the point where they
were making noises and he got

970
00:56:03,900 --> 00:56:07,400
kind of spooked.
And he left her to die in the

971
00:56:07,400 --> 00:56:10,600
pig pen, which happened shortly
after look here, these these

972
00:56:10,700 --> 00:56:13,800
these these women bartenders
don't mess with them.

973
00:56:14,000 --> 00:56:17,100
The fuck you?
Well, I mean she was just like,

974
00:56:17,100 --> 00:56:19,400
yeah, hey, you know, I'm sorry.
And yeah, she came out to

975
00:56:19,400 --> 00:56:24,800
apologize.
You're a nice guy and like but

976
00:56:24,800 --> 00:56:28,100
like he you know, that rage,
that issue that he had with a

977
00:56:28,100 --> 00:56:30,900
rage.
It was because at that moment

978
00:56:30,900 --> 00:56:33,300
she was a stand-in for who he
was really mad at.

979
00:56:34,200 --> 00:56:37,000
He was still mad at surely.
Okay, well that's still your

980
00:56:37,000 --> 00:56:40,200
fault and this is him doing what
he wanted to do to Shirley to

981
00:56:40,200 --> 00:56:42,800
somebody else.
So that was his circuit for his

982
00:56:42,800 --> 00:56:45,000
anger.
The police were immediately

983
00:56:45,000 --> 00:56:47,600
suspicious of him.
They were like, well, he knows

984
00:56:47,600 --> 00:56:49,300
that area, he helped build that
place.

985
00:56:49,300 --> 00:56:53,200
He was at the bar.
His boss was like, hey, if you

986
00:56:53,200 --> 00:56:56,800
come in, you know, I can give
you more work and the cops

987
00:56:56,800 --> 00:56:59,600
picked him up this time.
Richard lied.

988
00:57:00,100 --> 00:57:01,500
He told them.
Yeah, I've been there.

989
00:57:01,500 --> 00:57:04,300
He's like, yeah, I worked on
this site, but I don't know

990
00:57:04,300 --> 00:57:06,600
about a murder.
The police knew that the

991
00:57:06,600 --> 00:57:08,300
timeline he given them for,
where he was.

992
00:57:08,300 --> 00:57:10,500
That night was weird, but all
they have is circumstantial

993
00:57:10,500 --> 00:57:12,400
evidence.
They decided they were going to

994
00:57:12,408 --> 00:57:14,700
stop by.
They were like, you know, don't

995
00:57:14,700 --> 00:57:19,100
go anywhere.
So when they decide to stop by

996
00:57:19,100 --> 00:57:23,800
his hotel on April 18th, he is
not there, of course but he

997
00:57:23,800 --> 00:57:25,300
don't.
Listen, he taking all his

998
00:57:25,300 --> 00:57:27,500
clothes and left.
He told the hotel clerk, he was

999
00:57:27,500 --> 00:57:31,300
getting gone to the to wash his
clothes and his hotel room.

1000
00:57:31,300 --> 00:57:33,600
He had left all the stuff that
he had stolen from Virgil's

1001
00:57:33,600 --> 00:57:37,400
House, along with other
burglaries, but the police found

1002
00:57:37,400 --> 00:57:40,300
no evidence of Mary's murder
there.

1003
00:57:40,800 --> 00:57:43,500
They looked for him but he had
jumped on a freight train and

1004
00:57:43,500 --> 00:57:46,900
went back to Chicago, you should
have been marked his doorstep

1005
00:57:46,900 --> 00:57:52,000
and he was like there were drug
dealers and they Want me to sell

1006
00:57:52,000 --> 00:57:55,600
the drugs.
He's like, so I had to leave.

1007
00:57:55,600 --> 00:57:57,900
I don't want to sell drugs,
Martha.

1008
00:57:58,300 --> 00:58:02,000
And like if Martha had been
somebody who knew anything about

1009
00:58:02,000 --> 00:58:04,900
the real world and wasn't as
straitlaced as she was.

1010
00:58:05,100 --> 00:58:08,600
She would have known that.
That made no sense, not at all.

1011
00:58:08,700 --> 00:58:11,200
So, I'm gonna Force you in this
selling drugs.

1012
00:58:11,700 --> 00:58:14,300
Well actually know that that's a
thing, but it worked out because

1013
00:58:14,300 --> 00:58:17,700
Jean was working nights, so the
to didn't have to see each other

1014
00:58:17,900 --> 00:58:23,000
and so Gene was less angry.
Problem was, Richard had

1015
00:58:23,000 --> 00:58:26,900
discovered the things that made
him stop being so, angry,

1016
00:58:27,400 --> 00:58:31,800
killing, somebody and raping.
Somebody, my God, the rape thing

1017
00:58:31,800 --> 00:58:33,800
worked for him because he
struggled with seeing women as

1018
00:58:33,800 --> 00:58:37,900
anything other than pure virgins
and if you consented to sex with

1019
00:58:37,900 --> 00:58:43,000
him, it messed up his fantasy.
If he took it from them, it was

1020
00:58:43,000 --> 00:58:46,000
his choice, not theirs.
And he found a certain peace

1021
00:58:46,000 --> 00:58:50,400
with mixing violence and sex and
the power that he got over

1022
00:58:50,400 --> 00:58:51,000
women.
Mmmmm.

1023
00:58:52,100 --> 00:58:55,700
So Jean be in the smart one.
Here was like, yeah, well, you

1024
00:58:55,707 --> 00:58:57,500
know, you're kind of a piece of
crap.

1025
00:58:57,500 --> 00:59:01,500
I doubt that you could handle
joining the Navy and so Richard

1026
00:59:01,500 --> 00:59:02,800
was like, I couldn't join the
Navy.

1027
00:59:03,000 --> 00:59:06,000
Are you talking about?
I like jeans, very manipulative.

1028
00:59:07,200 --> 00:59:11,200
And if Richard took the bait,
signed up strangely, though in

1029
00:59:11,200 --> 00:59:13,400
the beginning, being the Navy
was really good for him and he

1030
00:59:13,408 --> 00:59:18,600
stay out of trouble.
It was almost like having a set

1031
00:59:18,600 --> 00:59:20,700
place to be at every time really
worked for him.

1032
00:59:21,200 --> 00:59:24,200
And then one day, he missed a
shift.

1033
00:59:24,200 --> 00:59:27,600
It was May 3rd where there were
still in 1966?

1034
00:59:27,600 --> 00:59:30,600
Oh my goodness, he missed his
shift and his commanding

1035
00:59:30,600 --> 00:59:32,000
officer, some people look for
him.

1036
00:59:32,300 --> 00:59:36,100
They found him curled up in a
ball in like pain and he had

1037
00:59:36,100 --> 00:59:39,000
like a like hot to the touch
fever and they were like,

1038
00:59:39,000 --> 00:59:42,200
there's no doctor on board but
like this is obviously some kind

1039
00:59:42,200 --> 00:59:46,300
of infection.
So they Helicoptered him to the

1040
00:59:46,700 --> 00:59:49,900
it's Keweenaw, peninsula in
Michigan to st.

1041
00:59:49,900 --> 00:59:55,700
Joseph's hospital because his
appendix was very big and it did

1042
00:59:55,700 --> 00:59:58,000
not burst a goodness because
that's a real long time every

1043
00:59:58,000 --> 01:00:00,800
time but he did have an
emergency appendectomy and he

1044
01:00:00,800 --> 01:00:04,800
woke up free from Pain and very
high on drugs.

1045
01:00:04,900 --> 01:00:10,400
Uh-oh.
May 20th a week after being

1046
01:00:10,400 --> 01:00:12,900
released from the hospital.
They put them back on the ship.

1047
01:00:14,600 --> 01:00:17,700
He started drinking again.
His Superior officers were like

1048
01:00:17,900 --> 01:00:22,800
he's really not fit to be a
seaman originally they let it

1049
01:00:22,800 --> 01:00:24,100
all slide but they were like,
listen.

1050
01:00:24,100 --> 01:00:27,900
If you can keep it together, you
can drink and he was, he was

1051
01:00:27,900 --> 01:00:31,100
sloppy.
Hmm, I know you're laughing

1052
01:00:31,100 --> 01:00:33,800
because of the word season
because you are a child Ryan.

1053
01:00:34,200 --> 01:00:37,400
That's what you call this C
soldiers.

1054
01:00:38,900 --> 01:00:41,600
Anyway, haha, that's even
anyway.

1055
01:00:41,900 --> 01:00:48,200
I'm sorry.
Well, he managed to get together

1056
01:00:48,200 --> 01:00:51,700
until about June 14.
When he confronted an officer

1057
01:00:51,700 --> 01:00:54,400
while he was drunk and they were
like, nah, you're done.

1058
01:00:54,600 --> 01:00:57,600
They set him back to Shore and
he was fired without pay for his

1059
01:00:57,600 --> 01:01:01,200
time on the boat.
Oh yeah, that sucks.

1060
01:01:02,100 --> 01:01:04,800
He went back to Chicago but he's
like I can't really face Gene

1061
01:01:04,800 --> 01:01:07,700
and Martha so he finds like a
cheap rooming house.

1062
01:01:07,900 --> 01:01:11,500
To live in East Chicago on 99th
Street and South Ewing Avenue.

1063
01:01:11,600 --> 01:01:15,700
He really only had one friend in
the world in his mind and her

1064
01:01:15,700 --> 01:01:17,700
name was Judy.
Okay.

1065
01:01:17,700 --> 01:01:21,900
So it's like aneema.
She was a nursing aide who he'd

1066
01:01:21,900 --> 01:01:25,300
met when he was recovering in
the hospital and she really was

1067
01:01:25,300 --> 01:01:28,600
like just a friend to him.
There was no it was confusing to

1068
01:01:28,600 --> 01:01:31,200
him because he only viewed women
as Saints or slots.

1069
01:01:31,800 --> 01:01:34,300
So here's this person in the
middle who's just treating him

1070
01:01:34,300 --> 01:01:36,800
like a regular person and just
being regular.

1071
01:01:36,800 --> 01:01:41,700
Nice to him.
So he called her and she was

1072
01:01:41,700 --> 01:01:44,600
just like, listen, come to
Michigan.

1073
01:01:45,200 --> 01:01:48,800
You know, I'll, we can hang out
and he took a training matter

1074
01:01:48,800 --> 01:01:51,800
and Haughton, she took him to
the Douglas house which was a

1075
01:01:51,800 --> 01:01:55,800
local hostile, they had lunch
and they did he can talk about

1076
01:01:55,800 --> 01:01:58,500
getting fired from the Navy and
she and talk about the messy

1077
01:01:58,500 --> 01:02:01,100
divorce that she was a part of
and they kind of spent the

1078
01:02:01,100 --> 01:02:05,000
afternoon laughing and when it
was time for her to leave she

1079
01:02:05,000 --> 01:02:08,900
gave him an envelope with $80.
Which is about six hundred and

1080
01:02:08,900 --> 01:02:11,000
seventy dollars today.
So it's not a little bit of

1081
01:02:11,000 --> 01:02:15,300
money like I said he was really
confused because she didn't want

1082
01:02:15,300 --> 01:02:17,900
to have sex with him.
Therefore she wasn't a whore but

1083
01:02:17,900 --> 01:02:22,000
she wasn't fulfilling the role
of being like the virgin mother

1084
01:02:22,000 --> 01:02:24,300
either.
The next day, he went back to

1085
01:02:24,300 --> 01:02:27,000
Chicago with more money than he
pretty much ever seen.

1086
01:02:27,000 --> 01:02:30,800
Any time.
He went back to G and Martha and

1087
01:02:30,800 --> 01:02:34,300
they very much weren't happy.
And like Gene was just like, you

1088
01:02:34,300 --> 01:02:37,500
got to work like you can't be
here and not work, Buddy.

1089
01:02:37,900 --> 01:02:44,300
So Jean was like, you know what,
we gon go to the union hall for

1090
01:02:44,600 --> 01:02:50,600
Navy men as and I'm you and he's
like, you going to keep looking

1091
01:02:50,700 --> 01:02:57,200
to see if you can get on another
boat problem was nobody wanted

1092
01:02:57,200 --> 01:03:00,100
to hire him because they knew he
was a drunkard who like to start

1093
01:03:00,100 --> 01:03:02,800
fights.
He managed to somehow get

1094
01:03:02,800 --> 01:03:06,700
invited to work on the SS flying
spray which was a cargo ship

1095
01:03:06,700 --> 01:03:07,700
that was headed to South
Vietnam.

1096
01:03:07,800 --> 01:03:11,100
At Nam, but when he arrived
there, someone else with more

1097
01:03:11,100 --> 01:03:15,000
seniority was given his job.
And so he was really upset about

1098
01:03:15,000 --> 01:03:19,200
that because he had taken a cab
and spent a lot of money, it was

1099
01:03:19,200 --> 01:03:22,100
a 30 minute ride to get to the
port.

1100
01:03:22,100 --> 01:03:23,800
Okay.
And so he wasted a lot of that

1101
01:03:23,800 --> 01:03:29,000
money that Judy gave him to go
there, and he spent pretty much

1102
01:03:29,000 --> 01:03:31,800
all weekend complaining, and
drinking and yelling.

1103
01:03:32,200 --> 01:03:34,800
And then on Monday morning,
Martha and Gene drove him into

1104
01:03:34,800 --> 01:03:37,900
the city with his suitcase and
was like, you got to go Oh,

1105
01:03:37,900 --> 01:03:39,800
somewhere, but she can't be
here.

1106
01:03:39,900 --> 01:03:42,100
Removing, sorry.
I don't come back to our house

1107
01:03:42,300 --> 01:03:44,400
and pretty much Martha was just
like, you are too old to keep

1108
01:03:44,400 --> 01:03:47,500
relying on me.
And like, trying to help you is

1109
01:03:47,500 --> 01:03:51,700
ruining my marriage.
The next day he went back to n.

1110
01:03:51,700 --> 01:03:54,100
Mu hiring Hall.
He got an assignment for the SS

1111
01:03:54,100 --> 01:03:58,100
Sinclair on great, Great Lakes,
which was an oil tanker when he

1112
01:03:58,100 --> 01:04:00,500
arrives the Sinclair.
Same thing happened.

1113
01:04:00,800 --> 01:04:03,600
He'd even have enough money to
rent a room here so he slept on

1114
01:04:03,600 --> 01:04:09,300
a construction site.
Wednesday July 13th, he tries

1115
01:04:09,300 --> 01:04:13,300
again at the hiring Hall.
He's really angry.

1116
01:04:13,300 --> 01:04:16,500
He's getting the runaround
Martha and Gene had come to like

1117
01:04:16,500 --> 01:04:21,700
give him a ride and they talked
with him at about 9:00 a.m. they

1118
01:04:21,700 --> 01:04:24,100
were parked on East 100 Street
which was near the loo

1119
01:04:24,100 --> 01:04:26,800
elementary elementary school and
across from a nursing

1120
01:04:27,200 --> 01:04:29,900
townhouses.
After about an hour and a half

1121
01:04:29,900 --> 01:04:31,800
of waiting for work, he got
tired and left.

1122
01:04:32,000 --> 01:04:35,700
He took his last $25 and walked
to the shipyard and which was

1123
01:04:35,700 --> 01:04:37,600
another rooming house that had a
Tavern.

1124
01:04:37,600 --> 01:04:40,700
There, he spent the rest of the
day drinking, and two different

1125
01:04:40,700 --> 01:04:45,000
taverns, he met a lady, who was
her name is Ella, Mae Hooper,

1126
01:04:45,100 --> 01:04:48,200
she's 53 and convince her to
come back with him to his hotel

1127
01:04:48,200 --> 01:04:51,400
room where he raped her at
knifepoint.

1128
01:04:52,900 --> 01:04:55,200
And stole her 22 caliber.
Rome pistol.

1129
01:04:55,400 --> 01:04:57,900
Oh, which had a gun.
She'd have a gun.

1130
01:05:00,200 --> 01:05:03,100
Okay.
Okay.

1131
01:05:03,800 --> 01:05:07,000
He brought a gun to a Shear.
Only got one life like she

1132
01:05:07,000 --> 01:05:09,400
brought a gun to what she
thought was a casual sexual

1133
01:05:09,400 --> 01:05:12,000
encounter.
Yes, but unfortunately and it

1134
01:05:12,000 --> 01:05:18,400
was not Then he took himself out
to dinner at case, pilothouse

1135
01:05:18,400 --> 01:05:22,600
returned to the shipyard Tavern,
at about 10:20, p.m. went

1136
01:05:22,600 --> 01:05:25,800
upstairs, and came back down.
Dressed in all black, carrying a

1137
01:05:25,800 --> 01:05:32,100
switchblade and L is handgun.
He hadn't made that much money.

1138
01:05:34,100 --> 01:05:41,100
From stealing from Ella.
But his plan was he had seen the

1139
01:05:41,100 --> 01:05:45,400
nurses coming and going this up
to this week while he was at the

1140
01:05:46,000 --> 01:05:50,400
union hall and his plan was that
he was going to show up there

1141
01:05:50,400 --> 01:05:54,200
and he was going to rob one of
the houses specifically the

1142
01:05:54,200 --> 01:05:59,900
house on 23:19 East 100 Street
at about 11:00 p.m.

1143
01:06:00,200 --> 01:06:03,800
July 30th 1966.
He walked to the door and he

1144
01:06:03,800 --> 01:06:06,800
banged on it four times a Woman
by the name.

1145
01:06:06,900 --> 01:06:09,000
I'm of corazon, I'm Mauro, open
the door.

1146
01:06:09,400 --> 01:06:11,900
And he pretty much by the time,
she opened the door, he had his

1147
01:06:11,900 --> 01:06:14,500
gun out, and he was just like,
hey, where are your companions?

1148
01:06:15,800 --> 01:06:19,200
He then woke up another.
Five residents of the house, and

1149
01:06:19,200 --> 01:06:20,800
he was just like, I'm not going
to hurt you.

1150
01:06:21,100 --> 01:06:23,100
I see enough money to get to New
Orleans.

1151
01:06:25,000 --> 01:06:29,000
She will the women need a Josh
mall and Patricia matusik?

1152
01:06:29,000 --> 01:06:32,100
Offered to go get their purses
right away and he was like you

1153
01:06:32,107 --> 01:06:34,700
can do it one by one.
The other people who were there

1154
01:06:34,700 --> 01:06:38,800
were Pamela welcoming and Melita
gargola And Valentina pacion.

1155
01:06:39,400 --> 01:06:42,400
They had been yanked out of bed
and like physically like picked

1156
01:06:42,400 --> 01:06:44,900
up by him, so they were freaked
out.

1157
01:06:44,900 --> 01:06:47,800
Yeah, the other two women were
like, we'll go get our purses

1158
01:06:47,800 --> 01:06:51,100
because he hadn't touched them,
but like the ones who had been

1159
01:06:51,100 --> 01:06:52,600
like physical.
Like, one of the girls have been

1160
01:06:52,600 --> 01:06:54,800
physically yanked out of her,
like, bunk bed.

1161
01:06:56,100 --> 01:06:59,000
He was like, listen, I'll let
you go one of the roommates

1162
01:06:59,000 --> 01:07:02,600
Gloria Davy bust through the
door drunk.

1163
01:07:02,800 --> 01:07:05,300
She thinks that she's gonna get
in trouble from her roommates.

1164
01:07:05,700 --> 01:07:11,900
And she walks into Robert are
robbery and he grabs her.

1165
01:07:11,900 --> 01:07:15,600
Throws her on a ground ties.
All of them up and he's like,

1166
01:07:15,600 --> 01:07:17,900
listen, this is not, I'm not
going to do anything.

1167
01:07:17,900 --> 01:07:21,100
Like I just don't want you to
run and call the cops as soon as

1168
01:07:21,100 --> 01:07:25,500
I leave lies.
Well, what happened here was

1169
01:07:25,500 --> 01:07:27,800
that something kinda took over
him?

1170
01:07:28,000 --> 01:07:30,000
He standing over this group of
beautiful women.

1171
01:07:30,000 --> 01:07:33,300
These are women who have never
given him the time of day and

1172
01:07:33,300 --> 01:07:36,500
he's just like, I have complete
power over them.

1173
01:07:37,300 --> 01:07:42,000
So he untied Pamela enough that
she could like walk and he was

1174
01:07:42,000 --> 01:07:44,400
just like, listen, I just want
to talk to you alone and he

1175
01:07:44,400 --> 01:07:46,000
pulled her into like another
room.

1176
01:07:46,300 --> 01:07:49,900
So then Suzanne Farris and
Marianne Jordan arrived home and

1177
01:07:49,900 --> 01:07:52,900
they kind of like walked
upstairs and then they walked by

1178
01:07:54,200 --> 01:07:57,900
And they see Richard standing
over there roommate with a knife

1179
01:07:58,400 --> 01:08:00,100
and the both of them try and run
away.

1180
01:08:00,500 --> 01:08:03,500
He closes that door and chases
the other two of those women

1181
01:08:03,500 --> 01:08:09,700
down And no point yet, had he
hit anybody or hurt anybody?

1182
01:08:09,900 --> 01:08:13,400
But Marianne was trying to fight
and he was like, oh cool.

1183
01:08:13,400 --> 01:08:15,900
Now I can hurt you.
What?

1184
01:08:16,399 --> 01:08:17,700
That was?
That was it.

1185
01:08:17,700 --> 01:08:22,700
He stabbed her death and while
he was still holding Suzanne

1186
01:08:22,700 --> 01:08:27,700
down and then he chokes Suzanne
left them in a room.

1187
01:08:28,200 --> 01:08:32,200
Went back to the bedroom where
he left, Pamela tied up and she

1188
01:08:32,200 --> 01:08:34,800
was terrified and she didn't
fight back at all.

1189
01:08:35,399 --> 01:08:38,700
And he Just was kind of
disgusted by the fact that she

1190
01:08:38,700 --> 01:08:41,600
didn't fight back and he just
very quickly stopped her.

1191
01:08:42,100 --> 01:08:43,300
Well, yeah, you got all the
power.

1192
01:08:43,300 --> 01:08:45,000
I can't do anything against you
right now.

1193
01:08:45,000 --> 01:08:47,500
I've got me tied up.
What do you he was?

1194
01:08:47,500 --> 01:08:49,500
He was getting off on this role
of them fighting.

1195
01:08:49,700 --> 01:08:52,200
I'm sorry, sir, but you're not
getting what you want.

1196
01:08:52,399 --> 01:08:56,300
Well, this went on for the rest
of the night, he would kill one.

1197
01:08:56,700 --> 01:08:59,500
He would go to the bathroom.
Clean everything up.

1198
01:09:00,500 --> 01:09:02,500
Then he would go back into the
bedroom where he had them all.

1199
01:09:02,500 --> 01:09:08,300
Tied up, grab another one.
And he knew that there were

1200
01:09:08,300 --> 01:09:11,100
eight women who lived there, but
what he wasn't aware of was that

1201
01:09:11,100 --> 01:09:16,899
he had nine women in the room.
Because horrid coraz��n core.

1202
01:09:16,899 --> 01:09:19,300
I didn't live there, she was
just visiting, that's right.

1203
01:09:19,300 --> 01:09:24,000
And so while he was gone at one
point Cora begins slowly sliding

1204
01:09:24,000 --> 01:09:27,800
under the bed.
And Hiding.

1205
01:09:28,000 --> 01:09:29,600
Hmm.
And some of the other girls

1206
01:09:29,600 --> 01:09:31,800
tried to do that too.
But they didn't quite get all

1207
01:09:31,800 --> 01:09:34,399
the way under the bed and he
ended up pulling cooking them.

1208
01:09:34,399 --> 01:09:41,899
Yeah finally though he was just
like my last one and he was he

1209
01:09:41,899 --> 01:09:43,100
felt like he was alone in the
house.

1210
01:09:43,100 --> 01:09:47,600
So he picked up Gloria and he
was going to his people.

1211
01:09:47,600 --> 01:09:54,300
He raped her before he killed
her and this is like from korres

1212
01:09:54,300 --> 01:09:58,600
testimony which was that she
watched it happen and she she

1213
01:09:59,000 --> 01:10:03,700
saw Gloria go to another place.
She pretty much at that point

1214
01:10:03,700 --> 01:10:06,000
had completely disassociated
from the night.

1215
01:10:07,600 --> 01:10:10,900
And Cora was afraid that if she
even breathed, he would know

1216
01:10:10,900 --> 01:10:16,600
where she was under the beds and
dragged her out to Richard was

1217
01:10:16,600 --> 01:10:20,300
exhausted at this point, it had
been hours of it's not exactly

1218
01:10:20,300 --> 01:10:22,000
easy to stab.
Someone to death, it is

1219
01:10:22,400 --> 01:10:25,300
physically demanding, true true.
He dragged her out of the room

1220
01:10:25,300 --> 01:10:28,200
by her feet into the hallway.
She was still alive at this

1221
01:10:28,200 --> 01:10:31,700
point and then he was like ah
here's a random piece of a

1222
01:10:31,700 --> 01:10:34,700
sheet.
And he grabbed, it wrapped

1223
01:10:34,700 --> 01:10:39,000
around her neck and he choked
her so hard that it like cut

1224
01:10:39,000 --> 01:10:42,600
into her neck.
For Richard, this was the best

1225
01:10:42,600 --> 01:10:44,800
night of his life and he's like,
whoo.

1226
01:10:44,900 --> 01:10:46,700
I could I'd all this control
over women.

1227
01:10:47,000 --> 01:10:49,700
He washed himself up kind of
ants that they're there.

1228
01:10:49,700 --> 01:10:51,200
A bodies.
Hey bedrooms.

1229
01:10:51,200 --> 01:10:53,200
I got this or you know eight
beds.

1230
01:10:53,200 --> 01:10:57,500
Yeah, he didn't remember that
Cora had been the one to even

1231
01:10:57,500 --> 01:10:58,900
let him it.
Oh goodness.

1232
01:10:59,000 --> 01:11:05,000
Okay, she waited and climbed out
of a window in the room after he

1233
01:11:05,000 --> 01:11:10,600
dragged her out of the house.
She was sitting on like a ledge

1234
01:11:10,700 --> 01:11:15,000
and Near like the first floor,
roof sobbing.

1235
01:11:15,100 --> 01:11:17,800
And one of the girls across the
street woke up and saw her that

1236
01:11:17,800 --> 01:11:21,500
girl was Judy diketon.
And Judy was just like a lot of

1237
01:11:21,500 --> 01:11:24,500
those girls over there are
pretty dramatic, but Cora is not

1238
01:11:24,500 --> 01:11:27,900
dramatic and she's like, she's
not sitting on her roof.

1239
01:11:27,900 --> 01:11:32,100
Crying over a breakup.
So Judy wrapped herself and like

1240
01:11:32,100 --> 01:11:35,700
her robe and like ran across the
street and as she got closer she

1241
01:11:35,700 --> 01:11:38,200
could hear Cora just saying over
and over.

1242
01:11:38,200 --> 01:11:40,800
She's like they're all dead.
Oh my God.

1243
01:11:41,000 --> 01:11:44,900
Are all dead Judy made it to the
first flight of steps and she

1244
01:11:44,900 --> 01:11:48,300
saw Gloria on the couch, naked
and choke so hard.

1245
01:11:48,600 --> 01:11:52,200
That her head looked partially,
severed, and she ran back across

1246
01:11:52,200 --> 01:11:53,800
the street.
And she talked to her house

1247
01:11:53,800 --> 01:11:55,400
mother and mrs.
Bison.

1248
01:11:56,800 --> 01:11:59,200
That whole house of women walked
with mrs.

1249
01:11:59,200 --> 01:12:01,600
Mason because mrs.
Bison was, like, I need to see

1250
01:12:01,600 --> 01:12:04,900
this for myself.
Like she went inside the house

1251
01:12:04,900 --> 01:12:09,900
alone and then came right back
outside threw up on the front

1252
01:12:09,900 --> 01:12:12,000
lawn.
And called the hospital where

1253
01:12:12,000 --> 01:12:14,600
they all worked and was just
like all of my girls have been

1254
01:12:14,600 --> 01:12:16,900
killed.
And the receptionist was like,

1255
01:12:17,000 --> 01:12:20,300
excuse me.
And she said, you seemed to send

1256
01:12:20,300 --> 01:12:25,400
somebody while mrs.
Bison is throwing up on the

1257
01:12:25,600 --> 01:12:32,100
lawn, the girls like wave down.
The police Corazon is Falling

1258
01:12:32,100 --> 01:12:35,700
apart on the front lawn.
Actually she had jumped down to

1259
01:12:35,700 --> 01:12:37,800
try and stop mrs.
Bison from going in.

1260
01:12:38,000 --> 01:12:41,200
She's like, no, no, no, it's
really bad in there and buy some

1261
01:12:41,200 --> 01:12:44,100
is like nah I got this.
No, you don't want traumatize.

1262
01:12:44,100 --> 01:12:47,800
Obviously, you did not get it.
First officer who arrived, his

1263
01:12:47,800 --> 01:12:53,100
name is Daniel Kelly.
And he like, doesn't know what

1264
01:12:53,100 --> 01:12:56,300
to do here.
Everybody is like, screaming and

1265
01:12:56,300 --> 01:13:04,000
crying.
He saw the first murder. and he

1266
01:13:05,100 --> 01:13:10,300
was like, okay, I gotta I gotta
walk around the rest of the

1267
01:13:10,300 --> 01:13:15,900
house and after he confirmed
that nobody else was there like

1268
01:13:15,900 --> 01:13:19,400
the killer was gone.
He radioed for assistance over

1269
01:13:19,400 --> 01:13:21,400
the radio?
All the cops heard.

1270
01:13:21,900 --> 01:13:25,900
They're all dead.
Oh God, give me the sergeant and

1271
01:13:25,900 --> 01:13:28,700
then he said I dated her sister.
I've never seen anything like

1272
01:13:28,700 --> 01:13:29,500
this.
Wow.

1273
01:13:29,500 --> 01:13:35,600
So he knew one of the victims.
A local reporter overheard.

1274
01:13:35,600 --> 01:13:39,300
This address on a radio and
rushed over, of course, Daniel

1275
01:13:39,300 --> 01:13:43,700
Kelly is like one almost shot
him because he's like, why are

1276
01:13:43,700 --> 01:13:48,400
you rushing at me, bro?
And Joe Cummings is the reporter

1277
01:13:48,400 --> 01:13:52,900
and he walks up the steps, like
he can tell just looking at the

1278
01:13:53,000 --> 01:13:57,900
police officer like some bad
happened here and like Dale's,

1279
01:13:57,900 --> 01:14:00,100
just like you really don't want
to go in there and he's like,

1280
01:14:00,100 --> 01:14:03,000
no, no, it's just a murder.
I've seen a lot of murders and

1281
01:14:03,200 --> 01:14:05,300
Like he walked on the first
floor and he was like, oh yeah,

1282
01:14:05,300 --> 01:14:07,500
this is bad.
You know, but like this cat

1283
01:14:07,500 --> 01:14:09,600
like, okay, something's can't
get any worse.

1284
01:14:09,900 --> 01:14:12,000
Well, then he walked around the
rest of the house and then he

1285
01:14:12,000 --> 01:14:14,100
came out and also vomited on the
front lawn.

1286
01:14:14,700 --> 01:14:17,300
Oh, he got worse in this Earth.
Yeah, fuck out of here.

1287
01:14:18,200 --> 01:14:21,100
In fact, when the other officers
came up, they saw the reporter

1288
01:14:21,100 --> 01:14:24,200
like freaking like, you know,
that and they were like, I look

1289
01:14:24,200 --> 01:14:27,400
at this guy until they saw what
happened?

1290
01:14:27,900 --> 01:14:31,200
Everybody's havin, a few fast.
Everybody was like this game be

1291
01:14:31,200 --> 01:14:33,000
that bad.
What are you talking about?

1292
01:14:33,200 --> 01:14:34,900
Out.
And then they saw it happen.

1293
01:14:35,200 --> 01:14:38,200
A doctor actually came from the
hospital where they all worked,

1294
01:14:38,300 --> 01:14:41,000
and gave Cora a Saturday of.
Because she was having a

1295
01:14:41,000 --> 01:14:44,300
full-blown breakdown.
Like I said, she was just there,

1296
01:14:44,300 --> 01:14:48,500
visiting Frank, flannagan the
commander of Chicago's homicide

1297
01:14:48,500 --> 01:14:53,800
unit came and was just like,
Joe, you can't say anything.

1298
01:14:54,100 --> 01:14:57,100
He's like, I don't want anybody
to know about how they were

1299
01:14:57,100 --> 01:15:00,000
killed or the rapes.
He's like this is going to bring

1300
01:15:00,000 --> 01:15:02,600
out a lot of weirdos in Chicago.
He's like an people are going to

1301
01:15:02,600 --> 01:15:03,900
try and take credit.
It's going to mess up our

1302
01:15:03,900 --> 01:15:07,200
investigation.
Joe crede core was taken to the

1303
01:15:07,208 --> 01:15:10,200
hospital for observation and
like it was really sucky because

1304
01:15:10,200 --> 01:15:13,300
the cops didn't want to like
re-traumatize her but they also

1305
01:15:13,300 --> 01:15:16,300
need to know like bare minimum
what the guy looked like.

1306
01:15:16,300 --> 01:15:18,500
Yeah.
So she did give like a

1307
01:15:18,600 --> 01:15:21,500
description barely before she
was fully sedated.

1308
01:15:21,700 --> 01:15:24,800
And the cops took that and went
looking for him, he had bitten

1309
01:15:24,800 --> 01:15:29,400
by a gas station and had dropped
off like his stuff randomly and

1310
01:15:29,400 --> 01:15:31,600
the gas station attendant was
like oh yeah I remember him.

1311
01:15:31,600 --> 01:15:33,000
He was you know hate like a
weird stuff.

1312
01:15:33,100 --> 01:15:36,100
Thunder.
All the attendant was like, oh,

1313
01:15:36,200 --> 01:15:40,300
he was complaining about being
at the hiring Hall and how they

1314
01:15:40,300 --> 01:15:44,100
kept giving him the runaround.
Oh, you don't say so, the cops

1315
01:15:44,100 --> 01:15:46,900
were like, oh perfect if he's in
the Navy.

1316
01:15:47,500 --> 01:15:49,400
They we got everything.
We have this guy.

1317
01:15:49,400 --> 01:15:52,600
Yes.
So the Navy was just like a

1318
01:15:52,600 --> 01:15:56,000
first like the main that guy
didn't know who he was, but they

1319
01:15:56,000 --> 01:15:58,700
were just like, oh no, we got
this fingerprints.

1320
01:15:58,700 --> 01:16:03,400
Photograph, everything matches.
Exactly what Cora said, they Him

1321
01:16:03,400 --> 01:16:06,400
within the first two hours of
finding out about the internet.

1322
01:16:06,500 --> 01:16:09,800
Nice, very nice.
Their next deal was that we have

1323
01:16:09,800 --> 01:16:11,900
to find him before he kills
anybody else because we've never

1324
01:16:11,900 --> 01:16:14,800
seen anything like this.
We've not had a crime where

1325
01:16:14,800 --> 01:16:18,600
people murdered an entire house
of people before, we don't know

1326
01:16:18,600 --> 01:16:23,300
what the next step is here.
Richard headed back to the end,

1327
01:16:23,300 --> 01:16:25,400
took a shower and went to bed
after murdering all those

1328
01:16:25,400 --> 01:16:27,000
people.
He went drinking with his

1329
01:16:27,000 --> 01:16:29,500
buddies that morning unaware
that Chicago was looking for

1330
01:16:29,500 --> 01:16:30,900
him.
He's just having a great old

1331
01:16:30,900 --> 01:16:31,800
time.
Yeah.

1332
01:16:31,800 --> 01:16:33,200
He met some of his old
classmates.

1333
01:16:33,200 --> 01:16:37,800
He was like, Hey, Wanna Party at
some point during the day, they

1334
01:16:37,800 --> 01:16:40,600
did hear that there had been a
Survivor to this attack in East

1335
01:16:40,600 --> 01:16:46,300
Chicago.
Richard got back to the n and he

1336
01:16:46,300 --> 01:16:50,500
had a call from Gene, and Gene
was just like, hey, there's a

1337
01:16:50,500 --> 01:16:55,300
job down for you.
The union, I love Jean, I love

1338
01:16:55,300 --> 01:16:58,600
you.
Richard was like, what?

1339
01:16:58,600 --> 01:17:00,400
Good luck.
I can get out of Chicago while

1340
01:17:00,400 --> 01:17:03,100
we're looking for me, but then,
as he sat down, like, thing

1341
01:17:03,100 --> 01:17:05,100
about this information, he was
just like, wait a second.

1342
01:17:05,100 --> 01:17:08,300
The union doesn't call you.
You have to go down there and

1343
01:17:08,308 --> 01:17:12,300
get the job.
So Jamie was like, he's like I

1344
01:17:12,300 --> 01:17:14,500
don't think my brother-in-law's
been down there doing me any

1345
01:17:14,500 --> 01:17:18,300
favors, so he called the union,
all himself and the staff, who

1346
01:17:18,300 --> 01:17:21,300
was normally pretty rude to him
were like, oh yeah, we do.

1347
01:17:21,400 --> 01:17:23,400
I have a job for you.
Mr. Speck.

1348
01:17:23,500 --> 01:17:27,600
Come on down, I love it.
I love it so much.

1349
01:17:28,400 --> 01:17:32,000
The problem was they told him
that there was a job on the the

1350
01:17:32,000 --> 01:17:35,300
Sinclair Great Lakes and it was
like I guess the guy forgot that

1351
01:17:35,300 --> 01:17:37,300
was the same job they'd offered
him three days ago.

1352
01:17:37,400 --> 01:17:40,400
Hmm.
Because he was like, okay so he

1353
01:17:40,400 --> 01:17:42,400
definitely remembered that one
because he spent all his money

1354
01:17:42,400 --> 01:17:44,900
on a cab.
So he knew they were in on it

1355
01:17:44,900 --> 01:17:46,900
and he knew he needed to leave
that damn it.

1356
01:17:48,700 --> 01:17:50,600
So he ended up running away.
He went to the other side of

1357
01:17:50,600 --> 01:17:53,700
town.
He hired a prostitute who saw

1358
01:17:53,700 --> 01:17:56,200
his gun and told the hotel
workers.

1359
01:17:56,200 --> 01:17:58,900
He had a gun and the hotel
called the cops.

1360
01:17:59,300 --> 01:18:03,000
And I looked at his IDs and his
paperwork, but since things went

1361
01:18:03,000 --> 01:18:06,200
so slow back then every Precinct
didn't have his picture yet,

1362
01:18:06,200 --> 01:18:07,100
right?
Right.

1363
01:18:07,700 --> 01:18:10,800
And so the cops let him go
Chicago.

1364
01:18:10,800 --> 01:18:13,500
P.d., however, were chasing down
his path that he had been

1365
01:18:13,500 --> 01:18:16,000
through.
They did find the shipyard in

1366
01:18:16,000 --> 01:18:18,400
and confirmed his i.d.
They found his schoolmates.

1367
01:18:18,600 --> 01:18:22,200
They talk to them, Richard then
met up with a couple, like he

1368
01:18:22,200 --> 01:18:24,400
like, ended up like hanging out
with a bunch of hobos.

1369
01:18:24,800 --> 01:18:27,200
And he was like, hey are you
guys leaving like what's a good

1370
01:18:27,200 --> 01:18:29,000
train?
Hop on again in town.

1371
01:18:29,300 --> 01:18:37,400
The hobos were like this guy's
weird is terrible, right?

1372
01:18:37,400 --> 01:18:39,900
We'll listen.
I'm not gonna make an assessment

1373
01:18:39,900 --> 01:18:41,600
on hobos.
Are not bad people.

1374
01:18:41,600 --> 01:18:44,300
Yeah, me either.
No, no, definitely not, but you

1375
01:18:44,300 --> 01:18:48,000
just like random as people enter
like you're fucking weird.

1376
01:18:48,700 --> 01:18:49,900
Don't know if I could you do
this.

1377
01:18:51,000 --> 01:18:54,100
Well, so he went to a liquor
store on his way, back to the

1378
01:18:54,100 --> 01:18:56,400
little hostile.
He was staying at, and that is

1379
01:18:56,400 --> 01:18:59,800
what he saw his Pace on every
single newspaper.

1380
01:18:59,800 --> 01:19:03,900
Mmm, one of the hobos called the
cops and the cops were like, who

1381
01:19:03,900 --> 01:19:08,500
is this drunk man?
Talking to me, Richard Chuck,

1382
01:19:08,500 --> 01:19:11,700
this little bottle of wine smash
the bottle on the cot that he

1383
01:19:11,700 --> 01:19:14,800
was sleeping on, and then cut
his wrist, all the way up to his

1384
01:19:14,800 --> 01:19:18,300
elbow and waited for death.
The cops didn't company

1385
01:19:18,300 --> 01:19:21,900
ambulance did and in the ER, as
they were saving his life.

1386
01:19:21,900 --> 01:19:24,500
One of the doctors was like,
this is the guy they're looking

1387
01:19:24,500 --> 01:19:26,100
for.
You need to call the police.

1388
01:19:27,000 --> 01:19:30,400
They recognize the Born To Raise
Hell Tattoo that Cora had

1389
01:19:30,400 --> 01:19:34,400
mentioned seeing things went
quickly.

1390
01:19:34,400 --> 01:19:38,500
At this point, they had 133
pages of testimony from core

1391
01:19:38,500 --> 01:19:41,700
about that night clothing, with
blood on it fingerprints.

1392
01:19:43,600 --> 01:19:48,300
Somehow Richard Speck got the
best public defender who ever

1393
01:19:48,300 --> 01:19:51,100
existed in the history of Public
Defenders.

1394
01:19:52,500 --> 01:19:58,700
This is terrible.
This guy got so much of the

1395
01:19:58,700 --> 01:20:01,600
evidence excluded.
He was like little that pistol,

1396
01:20:01,600 --> 01:20:04,800
you got illegal, search and
seizure because the prostitute

1397
01:20:04,800 --> 01:20:06,800
told you about it, and you
didn't have a right to go into

1398
01:20:06,800 --> 01:20:09,600
his hotel room.
Also, she's a prostitute and

1399
01:20:09,600 --> 01:20:12,300
reliable witness that Bloody
t-shirt, that could have been a

1400
01:20:12,300 --> 01:20:14,600
planted.
Every witness you had every

1401
01:20:14,600 --> 01:20:17,400
witness they had.
After the crime happened, was a

1402
01:20:17,400 --> 01:20:19,100
drunkard.
And therefore he argued that

1403
01:20:19,100 --> 01:20:21,700
they were unreliable, their
testimony was unreliable

1404
01:20:21,900 --> 01:20:24,300
prostitutes.
Are not unreliable Witnesses.

1405
01:20:24,600 --> 01:20:30,100
Listen, he Even tried to push to
get eight different trials and

1406
01:20:30,100 --> 01:20:32,400
he said, there's no way I can
get he can get a fair trial in

1407
01:20:32,400 --> 01:20:35,500
Chicago because you put his face
on every newspaper.

1408
01:20:35,700 --> 01:20:38,600
So now everybody who lives in
here is part of the jury pool

1409
01:20:38,600 --> 01:20:41,400
and they're going to be tainted,
everyone's real fucking Rex

1410
01:20:41,400 --> 01:20:43,700
thing.
Well, here's the thing judge

1411
01:20:43,700 --> 01:20:47,300
passion did agree to most of the
stuff except the motion to

1412
01:20:47,300 --> 01:20:49,000
separate the trials.
Okay, cool.

1413
01:20:49,100 --> 01:20:51,100
Now he was like he killed them
all in the same night.

1414
01:20:51,100 --> 01:20:55,100
It's all the same trial because
what, what?

1415
01:20:55,300 --> 01:21:01,400
His Lawyer Jerry was going to do
was kind of create like a

1416
01:21:01,400 --> 01:21:09,900
mistrial situation.
He tried to find an expert like

1417
01:21:09,900 --> 01:21:12,000
Jerry.
So I get e, his name was Gerald,

1418
01:21:12,000 --> 01:21:15,200
Getty call him Jerry because
that's much just made me get

1419
01:21:15,200 --> 01:21:15,800
her.
Yeah.

1420
01:21:15,800 --> 01:21:18,100
But Gerald get he tried to find
an expert.

1421
01:21:18,100 --> 01:21:20,700
Who would say that?
Richard was clinically insane.

1422
01:21:21,400 --> 01:21:24,300
He was having trouble.
He did get a brain scan and saw

1423
01:21:24,300 --> 01:21:28,200
his brain injury was pretty
severe and affected the part of

1424
01:21:28,200 --> 01:21:33,600
his brain related to emotional
control and it had continued to

1425
01:21:33,600 --> 01:21:36,200
not form properly after the
injury.

1426
01:21:36,300 --> 01:21:37,200
Jury.
Right?

1427
01:21:38,100 --> 01:21:40,700
But that wasn't enough for what
he was trying to do.

1428
01:21:41,200 --> 01:21:43,100
There was a psychiatrist.
He spent a lot of time with him

1429
01:21:43,100 --> 01:21:45,900
and his name was dr.
Zipporah in and the porn

1430
01:21:46,000 --> 01:21:48,700
diagnosed him with anxiety
depression OCD.

1431
01:21:48,900 --> 01:21:51,500
The problem is, those are all
things that come from you coming

1432
01:21:51,500 --> 01:21:56,100
down off of drugs, all things
that happen to people those

1433
01:21:56,100 --> 01:21:58,900
supporting was the first one is
zero in, on Richards, Madonna

1434
01:21:58,900 --> 01:22:01,900
whore complex though and how
this dominated the way he

1435
01:22:01,900 --> 01:22:04,200
interacted with women and was a
big major thing.

1436
01:22:06,100 --> 01:22:11,100
It was, it took six weeks.
Even outside of Chicago, they

1437
01:22:11,100 --> 01:22:16,000
filtered through 600 jurors to
find a jury that made both

1438
01:22:16,000 --> 01:22:18,800
sides.
Happy interestingly enough, even

1439
01:22:18,800 --> 01:22:22,800
those the porins supported
Richard the lawyer discovered

1440
01:22:22,800 --> 01:22:24,700
that support him was going to
write a book about him.

1441
01:22:24,700 --> 01:22:28,600
A book that I actually read for
this podcast and therefore the

1442
01:22:28,600 --> 01:22:31,300
both the defense and the
prosecution were like we don't

1443
01:22:31,300 --> 01:22:35,500
trust this Doctor.
They're like what?

1444
01:22:35,500 --> 01:22:38,800
If he does something to make the
trial go, whatever way he wants

1445
01:22:38,800 --> 01:22:41,200
for his book, right?
So none of them wanted him to

1446
01:22:41,200 --> 01:22:45,900
testify and so he did trial
started, April, 3rd, 1967,

1447
01:22:46,100 --> 01:22:50,100
drove, Getty ripped.
The prosecution to shreds from

1448
01:22:50,100 --> 01:22:53,700
the jump, he argued that the
fingerprints were compromised

1449
01:22:53,700 --> 01:22:57,300
because officer Kelly had
allowed Joe Cummings to just

1450
01:22:57,300 --> 01:23:00,000
Waltz through the house, which
is true.

1451
01:23:00,000 --> 01:23:01,800
He should have been allowed to
walk through an active crime

1452
01:23:01,800 --> 01:23:03,200
scene.
Porter, come on.

1453
01:23:03,600 --> 01:23:07,200
The prosecution's case was
falling apart and then our girl

1454
01:23:07,200 --> 01:23:09,700
Cora showed up.
I'm going to say once you look

1455
01:23:09,700 --> 01:23:11,700
like a boss and I'm going to
give you this moment to show you

1456
01:23:11,700 --> 01:23:15,000
a picture of her because she
looked like a g.

1457
01:23:18,200 --> 01:23:21,800
Like she showed up with a whole
Entourage, she had quietly like

1458
01:23:21,800 --> 01:23:25,100
arrived in the city.
And everybody who was going to

1459
01:23:25,108 --> 01:23:27,500
testify are part of that trial
was all sequestered at this

1460
01:23:27,500 --> 01:23:31,800
Ramada, Inn They're all one
spot.

1461
01:23:32,000 --> 01:23:35,500
Yep.
Let me see if I can find some

1462
01:23:35,500 --> 01:23:39,900
good pictures of her.
So, I love this one picture.

1463
01:23:39,900 --> 01:23:42,500
She showed up with Lisa glasses
on and I was like, she looks

1464
01:23:42,500 --> 01:23:43,800
like she's ready to fuck shit
up.

1465
01:23:47,300 --> 01:23:49,200
And love to see it.
You little fishies their

1466
01:23:49,200 --> 01:23:51,500
bodyguards like walking into the
trial.

1467
01:23:51,900 --> 01:23:54,400
Yeah.
And she's a tiny little Filipino

1468
01:23:54,400 --> 01:23:55,900
lady.
She does.

1469
01:23:57,100 --> 01:24:01,300
She looks like she is ready to
tell some serious business who

1470
01:24:01,300 --> 01:24:03,300
is.
She is the mob boss and they are

1471
01:24:03,300 --> 01:24:04,800
her bodyguards.
I love it.

1472
01:24:04,800 --> 01:24:08,000
Okay.
And the thing was she was poised

1473
01:24:08,100 --> 01:24:10,500
confident and control the entire
time.

1474
01:24:10,500 --> 01:24:13,800
She was talking, she got on the
stand and explained everything

1475
01:24:13,800 --> 01:24:16,900
in detail the newspaper articles
about.

1476
01:24:17,000 --> 01:24:21,200
By this were, like, the room was
silent the entire time and all

1477
01:24:21,200 --> 01:24:25,800
you could hear were the cry,
like, the parents of the victims

1478
01:24:25,800 --> 01:24:27,900
crying.
Because this was the first time

1479
01:24:27,900 --> 01:24:31,500
that they had heard everything
in this kind of detail, like

1480
01:24:31,500 --> 01:24:34,000
they might have known like, oh,
your daughter was stabbed, or

1481
01:24:34,000 --> 01:24:38,500
your daughter was choked, but
like Korra gave some very

1482
01:24:38,500 --> 01:24:43,600
intense testimony and then the
best part I said she's a G8 like

1483
01:24:44,000 --> 01:24:44,800
what?
A cool lady.

1484
01:24:45,100 --> 01:24:48,000
She ended her testimony and they
were Like well, do you see the

1485
01:24:48,000 --> 01:24:52,000
man who did this in this room?
She left the witness box walked

1486
01:24:52,000 --> 01:24:54,500
over to his table, pointed him
in the face.

1487
01:24:54,500 --> 01:24:57,200
And said, this is the man who
murdered my friends.

1488
01:24:59,600 --> 01:25:05,400
Mic drop, no fear love it on
April, 15th.

1489
01:25:05,800 --> 01:25:08,600
After 49 minutes of
deliberation, the jury came back

1490
01:25:08,600 --> 01:25:10,700
with a guilty verdict for all
eat murders.

1491
01:25:11,200 --> 01:25:15,300
He was sentenced to death.
But his lawyer, did some lawyer

1492
01:25:15,300 --> 01:25:19,000
ring and managed to get a stay
of execution while the Supreme

1493
01:25:19,000 --> 01:25:22,700
Court of Illinois.
Look at the case, On November

1494
01:25:22,700 --> 01:25:27,500
22nd 1968, the Supreme Court,
the lower court ratified that

1495
01:25:27,500 --> 01:25:31,900
sentence 1971.
However, he was able to find

1496
01:25:31,900 --> 01:25:38,600
evidence that the prosecution
had excluded over 200 jurors,

1497
01:25:38,900 --> 01:25:41,400
because they were anti-capital
punishment.

1498
01:25:41,600 --> 01:25:44,500
And so, they looked at his trial
again, and he was given a new

1499
01:25:44,500 --> 01:25:49,300
sentence on November 21st, 1972.
He was resentenced to 400 years

1500
01:25:49,300 --> 01:25:55,300
in prison.
So death right life with Richard

1501
01:25:55,300 --> 01:25:58,600
would request parole hearings
every time he was eligible.

1502
01:25:58,900 --> 01:26:05,300
1976, 77-81, 84 87, 1990, pretty
much until the parole board

1503
01:26:05,300 --> 01:26:08,700
realized that he was bored and
that's the only reason why he

1504
01:26:08,700 --> 01:26:11,700
was doing it.
We do get a hobby, he's gonna be

1505
01:26:11,708 --> 01:26:15,200
in prison for a long time and he
had no options and prison.

1506
01:26:15,200 --> 01:26:16,500
He pretty much ignored the
rules.

1507
01:26:16,700 --> 01:26:19,900
There's a horrible story.
They call him the Birdman, okay,

1508
01:26:20,000 --> 01:26:22,700
because there, Bird that like
flew into his cell and like had

1509
01:26:22,700 --> 01:26:25,300
a broken wing and he kind of
kept it as a patent nurse it

1510
01:26:25,300 --> 01:26:29,300
back to health.
And so at some point the warden

1511
01:26:29,300 --> 01:26:31,400
came down and was like, you
can't have a pet in prison, bro,

1512
01:26:31,400 --> 01:26:34,900
you're in prison.
And so he took the bird and he

1513
01:26:34,900 --> 01:26:39,400
threw it into a fan, o killing
it and spreading blood all over

1514
01:26:39,400 --> 01:26:41,100
his cell.
He was like, well, if nobody can

1515
01:26:41,100 --> 01:26:43,200
have a pet, like, if I could
have a pet, nobody can have it.

1516
01:26:43,200 --> 01:26:49,300
He's like, fuck this bird, wow.
Yeah, again very unhinged.

1517
01:26:49,300 --> 01:26:52,700
And everybody knew it.
And that was very dramatic and

1518
01:26:52,700 --> 01:26:54,900
Uncle for sure.
I was going to ask you if this

1519
01:26:54,900 --> 01:26:57,000
was.
I don't forget who the Birdman

1520
01:26:57,000 --> 01:26:58,900
of Alcatraz is.
No, that's where they got there

1521
01:26:58,900 --> 01:27:00,400
were like oh you're just like
the bird man.

1522
01:27:00,400 --> 01:27:03,100
Yeah, that's where they got the
name from like people knew about

1523
01:27:03,100 --> 01:27:06,200
that.
But no, no, the warden was like,

1524
01:27:06,200 --> 01:27:08,300
you can't have birds and he was
like, well, let me kill this

1525
01:27:08,300 --> 01:27:13,500
bird in front of you.
He got drugs.

1526
01:27:13,500 --> 01:27:15,700
He got moonshine.
Smuggled in when the guards

1527
01:27:15,700 --> 01:27:18,800
challenged him and were like
stop.

1528
01:27:18,800 --> 01:27:23,800
He was just like what you gonna
do another hundred years I mean

1529
01:27:24,600 --> 01:27:27,200
actually sorry add another
thousand years is the direct

1530
01:27:27,200 --> 01:27:30,400
quote.
Oh my God, he only ever did one

1531
01:27:30,400 --> 01:27:34,800
interview in prison, it was for
the Chicago Tribune and he

1532
01:27:34,800 --> 01:27:38,000
admitted that he did Kill the
woman, he felt nothing about it

1533
01:27:38,000 --> 01:27:39,400
and he barely remember the
night.

1534
01:27:41,200 --> 01:27:44,500
He died the day before his 50th
birthday 1991.

1535
01:27:45,400 --> 01:27:48,000
A lifetime of drug abuse had
destroyed his heart, and he just

1536
01:27:48,000 --> 01:27:51,500
had a massive heart attack
scientist took his brain and

1537
01:27:51,500 --> 01:27:53,200
they were like, oh, we go.
And look at them.

1538
01:27:54,500 --> 01:27:56,500
They discovered that they were
major abnormalities in his

1539
01:27:56,500 --> 01:27:59,600
hippocampus, which controls your
memory, and the amygdala, which

1540
01:27:59,600 --> 01:28:03,500
controls your strong emotions,
the hippocampus and amygdala

1541
01:28:03,500 --> 01:28:06,600
were fused together, which is
not what's supposed to happen.

1542
01:28:08,400 --> 01:28:12,900
So, it turns out that like, He
probably didn't remember a lot.

1543
01:28:13,200 --> 01:28:17,000
Hmm interesting.
If the part of his brain that is

1544
01:28:17,000 --> 01:28:19,700
responsible for memory is
completely malformed.

1545
01:28:19,700 --> 01:28:22,100
Yeah.
They took a bunch of tissue

1546
01:28:22,100 --> 01:28:25,200
slides and they mailed them to
Boston and someone stole them

1547
01:28:26,000 --> 01:28:27,200
and they have no idea where they
are.

1548
01:28:27,500 --> 01:28:30,900
Oh, they assumed it was for
someone's probable, personal and

1549
01:28:31,200 --> 01:28:34,100
creepy collection was once a
someone is creepy Museum.

1550
01:28:34,600 --> 01:28:36,900
The rest of his body was not
claimed by his family.

1551
01:28:37,800 --> 01:28:40,300
They finally managed to contact
Coral.

1552
01:28:40,800 --> 01:28:47,600
You know Carolyn and Carolyn was
like fine we don't want to I

1553
01:28:47,600 --> 01:28:50,500
don't want to bury him because
he'll have like some creepy

1554
01:28:50,500 --> 01:28:54,500
Monument to his name.
So she was like let's just

1555
01:28:54,500 --> 01:28:56,200
cremate him.
Throw his ashes, in the wind

1556
01:28:56,200 --> 01:28:59,400
will be fine.
He kind of figured out the

1557
01:28:59,400 --> 01:29:00,900
spotlight.
People forgot about what

1558
01:29:00,900 --> 01:29:07,900
happened and then in 1986 a
video gets set to Chicago

1559
01:29:07,900 --> 01:29:11,700
newspaper.
And it Richard Speck is there

1560
01:29:11,700 --> 01:29:14,300
one.
He has boobs, which they think

1561
01:29:14,400 --> 01:29:17,000
he got from getting hormones
smuggled in.

1562
01:29:17,500 --> 01:29:22,100
He is performing sex acts on
other prisoners.

1563
01:29:22,400 --> 01:29:27,800
Snorting cocaine having sex on
camera bragging you know, as I

1564
01:29:27,800 --> 01:29:29,600
said in the beginning, if they
knew, how much fun I was having,

1565
01:29:29,600 --> 01:29:33,400
they turn me loose, Illinois.
Lawmakers, are embarrassed

1566
01:29:33,500 --> 01:29:36,700
angry.
This was released right after a

1567
01:29:36,700 --> 01:29:38,400
scandal.
That happened in Illinois with

1568
01:29:38,400 --> 01:29:42,600
guards sexually, assaulting
women prisoners and so they're

1569
01:29:42,600 --> 01:29:46,000
just looking at like, the people
of Illinois are like, what are

1570
01:29:46,000 --> 01:29:49,300
you all doing?
Like, not your job.

1571
01:29:50,700 --> 01:29:53,900
And the one person that they had
wanted to kill here.

1572
01:29:53,900 --> 01:29:59,300
He is immortalized mocking.
Them for letting him live.

1573
01:30:00,500 --> 01:30:02,600
Okay, did he have boobs when he
died?

1574
01:30:03,100 --> 01:30:04,000
He might have.
Yeah.

1575
01:30:05,300 --> 01:30:10,000
Okay, one, quote lives kind of,
on from that Soul interview that

1576
01:30:10,000 --> 01:30:11,700
he did.
When he first went to prison,

1577
01:30:12,000 --> 01:30:14,500
they asked why he did it, you
know?

1578
01:30:14,500 --> 01:30:18,400
And he very nonchalantly said,
it just wasn't there night.

1579
01:30:19,700 --> 01:30:24,400
Fucking strangers, people's
fucking God, but I do want to

1580
01:30:24,400 --> 01:30:27,600
end on something.
Nice, talking about our lovely

1581
01:30:27,600 --> 01:30:32,000
Survivor Corazon Amora Atienza,
she moved on with her life.

1582
01:30:33,900 --> 01:30:37,200
Originally, she moved back to
the Philippines for a little

1583
01:30:37,200 --> 01:30:39,100
bit.
She got married in 1969.

1584
01:30:40,700 --> 01:30:44,000
She moved back to the US settled
in Washington DC where she

1585
01:30:44,000 --> 01:30:46,600
worked at Georgetown University
Hospital as a critical care

1586
01:30:46,600 --> 01:30:50,500
nurse and then the Veterans
Medical Her until she retired at

1587
01:30:50,500 --> 01:30:55,000
68 years old, she became
lifelong friends with the police

1588
01:30:55,000 --> 01:30:58,400
and the bodyguards, and the
prosecutor prosecutors who

1589
01:30:58,400 --> 01:31:01,500
watched over her leading up to
the trial and afterward.

1590
01:31:01,600 --> 01:31:03,800
People very much tried to
protect her from the

1591
01:31:03,800 --> 01:31:08,500
obsessiveness of the fandoms and
the creepiness there.

1592
01:31:08,500 --> 01:31:10,900
Unfortunately, it wasn't the
best for all the other families.

1593
01:31:11,200 --> 01:31:14,700
Some of the families of the
other victims were harassed, not

1594
01:31:14,700 --> 01:31:17,200
in the States, but in the
Philippines, in Manila.

1595
01:31:17,200 --> 01:31:23,800
No, and I was really upset.
To a lot of people Corazon is 78

1596
01:31:23,800 --> 01:31:26,300
years old.
She spends her days.

1597
01:31:26,300 --> 01:31:29,100
These right now, take care of
her grandchildren.

1598
01:31:29,500 --> 01:31:33,200
She has a daughter named Abigail
who is a nurse as well.

1599
01:31:33,400 --> 01:31:38,500
And her son, is an accountant,
he's my Ace, her last interview

1600
01:31:38,500 --> 01:31:43,500
response was in 2016.
The 50-year anniversary of the

1601
01:31:43,500 --> 01:31:45,900
crime?
She didn't do any direct.

1602
01:31:45,900 --> 01:31:48,500
She doesn't do any direct
talking to the Press.

1603
01:31:50,800 --> 01:31:54,600
The former assistant attorney
William Martin spoke to the

1604
01:31:54,600 --> 01:31:58,600
Press on her behalf and said,
she's happy, the case still

1605
01:31:58,600 --> 01:32:02,900
changed everybody at touched.
They still exchange emails.

1606
01:32:03,400 --> 01:32:06,400
He says that Korra still have
nightmares about her attack and

1607
01:32:06,400 --> 01:32:09,500
she does Harbor some survivor's
guilt still but she looks at it

1608
01:32:09,508 --> 01:32:13,100
as if someone somewhere maybe
God was looking out for her that

1609
01:32:13,100 --> 01:32:16,900
night.
And yeah, love to see it.

1610
01:32:16,900 --> 01:32:19,600
Okay, that's a good.
I like the ending.

1611
01:32:19,800 --> 01:32:21,600
That's nice.
Yeah, decided we would add it

1612
01:32:21,600 --> 01:32:24,100
on, you know, because like I
said, I we talk a lot about a

1613
01:32:24,108 --> 01:32:27,100
lot of people who die and not
that often, about people who

1614
01:32:27,100 --> 01:32:29,500
survived like pretty horrible
things.

1615
01:32:29,500 --> 01:32:32,700
So I did run a whole series.
I'm going to add more to it of

1616
01:32:32,700 --> 01:32:35,000
of women who survived, I do
remember watching that video.

1617
01:32:35,000 --> 01:32:40,600
Now, we're those glasses on
looking like a genius, The first

1618
01:32:40,600 --> 01:32:43,300
letter name I was like oh I
remember that was it means that

1619
01:32:43,300 --> 01:32:45,100
the prosecutors.
They coached her very well

1620
01:32:45,300 --> 01:32:46,900
because you can't show any
weakness.

1621
01:32:46,900 --> 01:32:49,800
You can't cry on the stand.
They use that against you.

1622
01:32:49,800 --> 01:32:52,200
Right?
And Jimmy were like cold as ice

1623
01:32:52,200 --> 01:32:55,600
Cora.
She was almost even even in the

1624
01:32:55,600 --> 01:32:58,800
interview that I saw the Chicago
Tribune with Martin with a

1625
01:32:58,800 --> 01:33:01,100
William Martin.
He talked about that moment

1626
01:33:01,100 --> 01:33:05,100
where she got off the witness
box and got in his face and I

1627
01:33:05,100 --> 01:33:07,000
was like he was like, that was
that was Brave.

1628
01:33:07,000 --> 01:33:16,400
He was like, that was awesome.
Something happened in, Ted

1629
01:33:16,400 --> 01:33:18,200
Bundy's case.
Ted Bundy was like, are you

1630
01:33:18,200 --> 01:33:19,400
sure?
It's me.

1631
01:33:19,400 --> 01:33:21,800
And she was like, I'm absolutely
sure it was you.

1632
01:33:24,100 --> 01:33:27,100
Yeah, he's like, how do you know
it was me.

1633
01:33:27,100 --> 01:33:31,700
Who attempted to murder you.
I saw your noxious, fucking

1634
01:33:31,700 --> 01:33:38,000
fascia dipshit.
But anyway, what do you have for

1635
01:33:38,000 --> 01:33:38,500
us?
I'm sorry.

1636
01:33:38,500 --> 01:33:39,800
This one went a little long
today.

1637
01:33:40,400 --> 01:33:42,400
But no, it was a great story.
I love it.

1638
01:33:42,700 --> 01:33:51,400
I'm okay with it being.
Well, well today let me give you

1639
01:33:51,407 --> 01:33:54,200
a little story time, first?
Okay, it's a little personal

1640
01:33:54,200 --> 01:33:55,500
story time.
Actually, is something that

1641
01:33:55,500 --> 01:34:00,600
happened to me.
Now, I like to think of myself

1642
01:34:00,600 --> 01:34:05,300
as like sort of sensitive, okay?
Like a sensitive not you know

1643
01:34:05,300 --> 01:34:07,500
what I mean?
Like someone who's, this is

1644
01:34:07,500 --> 01:34:09,700
actually the have you had
experiences.

1645
01:34:10,000 --> 01:34:12,200
I've had why have we never
discussed this?

1646
01:34:12,300 --> 01:34:15,800
I've had experiences, I've had a
couple of experiences, it was

1647
01:34:15,800 --> 01:34:17,600
some point.
We got to do a, we're gonna

1648
01:34:17,600 --> 01:34:20,600
record this conversation and
make it like a bonus for the

1649
01:34:20,600 --> 01:34:26,300
patreon.
Yeah, and like it kind of runs

1650
01:34:26,300 --> 01:34:27,500
in the family too.
Okay.

1651
01:34:27,500 --> 01:34:31,500
Yeah.
Like with my mom, she can meet

1652
01:34:31,500 --> 01:34:32,500
her.
We had this thing.

1653
01:34:32,500 --> 01:34:35,700
Like we have prophetic Rings.
Oh, I don't like that.

1654
01:34:35,700 --> 01:34:37,000
Yeah, it's kind of shitty, my
sister.

1655
01:34:37,000 --> 01:34:39,100
And I have had.
We've had shared dreams multiple

1656
01:34:39,100 --> 01:34:40,300
time, huh.
Nice.

1657
01:34:40,300 --> 01:34:44,400
Yeah, it's my family that runs
down the indigenous side the

1658
01:34:44,400 --> 01:34:47,200
indigenous women.
I think that's yeah this is for

1659
01:34:47,200 --> 01:34:50,200
us like she can tell when
someone's gonna lie she has

1660
01:34:50,200 --> 01:34:52,900
dreams of people being pregnant
and like someone who's trying to

1661
01:34:52,900 --> 01:34:56,800
hide it and she's like as well.
I just wanted to say yes I want

1662
01:34:56,800 --> 01:34:58,900
your mom to never have a dream
about me.

1663
01:35:01,300 --> 01:35:04,800
I need her to keep that energy
away from me, but that evil on

1664
01:35:04,808 --> 01:35:05,500
me?
Ricky Bobby.

1665
01:35:06,600 --> 01:35:08,900
It didn't happen.
If she calls you one night and

1666
01:35:08,900 --> 01:35:13,400
says No, I dream about your
podcast co-host.

1667
01:35:13,800 --> 01:35:16,000
Just be like Schneider and Mom
know you did.

1668
01:35:16,400 --> 01:35:18,800
Don't worry about it.
Don't worry about it.

1669
01:35:18,808 --> 01:35:22,100
Keep that evil to yourself.
Um, well like that.

1670
01:35:22,500 --> 01:35:30,500
But I've had at least a couple.
The last one I had was with a

1671
01:35:30,500 --> 01:35:33,500
friend of mine.
I use quotations around friend

1672
01:35:33,600 --> 01:35:35,900
and he's somebody you don't
like, no.

1673
01:35:35,900 --> 01:35:43,400
It's someone that How do you say
this Friends with Benefits?

1674
01:35:43,400 --> 01:35:47,300
Oh okay.
So this was like years ago.

1675
01:35:50,400 --> 01:35:54,200
We work together so, well,
that's a terrible Choice.

1676
01:35:54,200 --> 01:35:57,700
Yeah yeah.
Whatever you work with is such

1677
01:35:57,700 --> 01:36:04,300
an awful Choice sir.
Anyway so one night I had this

1678
01:36:04,300 --> 01:36:10,400
dream about her with my other
friend that I worked with oh no

1679
01:36:10,500 --> 01:36:15,000
and and she's like the
ancestors, let you know.

1680
01:36:15,000 --> 01:36:16,900
Yeah.
And then and then getting done

1681
01:36:16,900 --> 01:36:21,300
dirty but still dang.
It's funny because I wake up the

1682
01:36:21,300 --> 01:36:22,900
next morning.
I'm like, damn, that was a

1683
01:36:22,900 --> 01:36:25,200
shitty as dreamily.
I feel real bad.

1684
01:36:25,300 --> 01:36:30,000
I felt bad like really inside,
like just terrible.

1685
01:36:30,300 --> 01:36:33,700
We're rest of the day and she's
like, I hadn't seen a message me

1686
01:36:33,700 --> 01:36:35,400
like later.
And I said, I have something to

1687
01:36:35,400 --> 01:36:37,800
tell you, I'm like, you slept
with this such and such and

1688
01:36:37,800 --> 01:36:40,500
she's like, how do you know I'm
like, because I had a fucking

1689
01:36:40,500 --> 01:36:43,800
dream about it.
I, I know he's things.

1690
01:36:44,100 --> 01:36:46,100
And then she's like, I don't
believe you'd only whatever.

1691
01:36:46,500 --> 01:36:48,700
Anyway, you gotta believe me,
girl, I know I know.

1692
01:36:48,900 --> 01:36:56,100
No, I renew.
But um, I-i've had I'd see I'd

1693
01:36:56,100 --> 01:36:58,300
say like a couple experiences
when I was a child as well.

1694
01:36:58,700 --> 01:37:03,400
The one I'm going to talk about
is I'm going to say, it's kind

1695
01:37:03,400 --> 01:37:05,500
of like a sleep paralysis type
of thing.

1696
01:37:06,600 --> 01:37:11,600
So um, you know, we were in our
attic.

1697
01:37:12,700 --> 01:37:15,500
Me and my brother shared room.
Oh you're adequate.

1698
01:37:15,500 --> 01:37:17,800
Your room has an attic.
Yeah, but is awesome attic.

1699
01:37:17,900 --> 01:37:22,800
Okay, it was very spacious.
It's a big help, that's good

1700
01:37:22,800 --> 01:37:25,700
because I think Those little
tiny little swoosh the little

1701
01:37:25,700 --> 01:37:27,100
closer.
No, yeah.

1702
01:37:27,100 --> 01:37:32,400
That's what I have my house now.
But no, you feel like a whole

1703
01:37:32,400 --> 01:37:33,700
bunk bed.
Yeah.

1704
01:37:34,000 --> 01:37:35,700
Room enough for all my space for
activities.

1705
01:37:35,700 --> 01:37:37,200
Yeah.
Someone's face reactivities.

1706
01:37:37,200 --> 01:37:41,800
Oh my god.
Um, In Overlook my parents room.

1707
01:37:41,800 --> 01:37:43,300
So there's a little door to
overlook their room.

1708
01:37:46,700 --> 01:37:53,200
One night laying in the top bunk
and for some reason like I wake

1709
01:37:53,200 --> 01:37:56,000
up and I roll like the covers
over my head.

1710
01:37:58,500 --> 01:38:02,100
The light turns on.
There's like you don't hear

1711
01:38:02,100 --> 01:38:05,300
anybody walking.
You, like just turns on Yvonne

1712
01:38:05,300 --> 01:38:06,700
situations.
I was like a light at the bottom

1713
01:38:06,700 --> 01:38:08,300
of the steps like you flip it
on.

1714
01:38:08,300 --> 01:38:10,400
Yeah, upstairs.
Yeah, I got exactly that's how

1715
01:38:10,400 --> 01:38:12,800
it is in my parents house, but
no, we walked upstairs.

1716
01:38:13,000 --> 01:38:17,000
There's nobody walking at all.
So, it was, like, laying there,

1717
01:38:17,100 --> 01:38:20,600
like, looking up in my, you
know, my eyes were open.

1718
01:38:20,900 --> 01:38:22,500
I was not moving.
I was like, I don't want to move

1719
01:38:22,500 --> 01:38:25,200
because I know there's something
like they just it, I just felt

1720
01:38:25,200 --> 01:38:30,700
like there was something around
me and Arrested.

1721
01:38:30,700 --> 01:38:38,500
It was there's nobody walking
around right and I just happen

1722
01:38:38,500 --> 01:38:40,500
to realize that I have 50
million things.

1723
01:38:40,500 --> 01:38:42,500
Oh my God, my phone, and I'm
deleting them all.

1724
01:38:42,500 --> 01:38:47,300
And all of a sudden they're just
like this black figure.

1725
01:38:47,300 --> 01:38:54,900
No, I think that just crosses
like it just waves across my

1726
01:38:54,900 --> 01:38:57,400
face.
I don't want to need the blanket

1727
01:38:57,400 --> 01:39:03,100
and I can see it and Zane,
nothing like turns off.

1728
01:39:05,200 --> 01:39:09,600
And that's it.
Are we talking about Shadow

1729
01:39:09,600 --> 01:39:10,700
People today?
Oh my God.

1730
01:39:10,700 --> 01:39:12,000
Yeah, we're talking about
Shadows people today.

1731
01:39:12,400 --> 01:39:16,600
I have positives and negative
experiences with us.

1732
01:39:16,700 --> 01:39:21,100
Mmm.
Yeah this is um, I don't know.

1733
01:39:21,500 --> 01:39:24,500
I think well, the interesting
thing is that I've heard people

1734
01:39:24,500 --> 01:39:29,300
like the lady who I watch on
Dead Files, she talks about

1735
01:39:29,300 --> 01:39:31,300
Shadow People in a different
way.

1736
01:39:31,700 --> 01:39:36,800
She talks about them being like
Ancient and inhuman.

1737
01:39:36,900 --> 01:39:39,400
Yeah, that hasn't been my
experience.

1738
01:39:39,400 --> 01:39:42,100
They're the ones I've
experienced seem like people

1739
01:39:42,400 --> 01:39:45,100
there, there I can.
So that's okay.

1740
01:39:45,100 --> 01:39:47,600
Please explain more because I'd
be like, what is she talking

1741
01:39:47,600 --> 01:39:48,900
about?
Yeah.

1742
01:39:49,200 --> 01:39:52,600
Now shaped like a people and
they just kind of some some of

1743
01:39:52,600 --> 01:39:56,200
them are some of them are not,
so shadow people can be

1744
01:39:56,200 --> 01:39:58,400
associated with of course sleep
paralysis.

1745
01:40:00,400 --> 01:40:03,200
Before we get into too deep into
sleep paralysis.

1746
01:40:04,100 --> 01:40:07,300
Get a little history of these
shadow things.

1747
01:40:08,400 --> 01:40:13,300
So the earliest depiction of a
shadow being would have to be

1748
01:40:13,300 --> 01:40:25,200
from a short story from 1887
titled Lahore or The Outsider it

1749
01:40:25,200 --> 01:40:31,800
was written by a French author.
Guided guy did 1 plus r naught

1750
01:40:32,000 --> 01:40:35,700
okay so that's French.
Yes, I did not.

1751
01:40:35,700 --> 01:40:44,900
Take for instance, I made a
video and I called the man, Gary

1752
01:40:44,900 --> 01:40:47,800
plauche.
His name is definitely push a

1753
01:40:47,900 --> 01:40:52,700
push but I don't know why my
brain just didn't he's from

1754
01:40:53,400 --> 01:40:57,200
Louisiana France.
Whatever occasion.

1755
01:40:57,500 --> 01:41:01,000
Yeah.
Oh well we make these mistakes

1756
01:41:01,000 --> 01:41:02,200
whatevs.
Yeah.

1757
01:41:02,600 --> 01:41:07,100
So in the story he tells Tells
the tale of an aristocrat.

1758
01:41:07,500 --> 01:41:12,300
Who's driven to Madness, the
character complains of being

1759
01:41:12,300 --> 01:41:17,100
afraid to sleep, where he has
dreams, there's a shadowy

1760
01:41:17,100 --> 01:41:22,300
presence.
See anyone his chest and it's

1761
01:41:22,300 --> 01:41:26,700
using its it has its the shadow
has its mouth pressed against

1762
01:41:26,700 --> 01:41:32,500
his and it's literally, he can
feel his soul leaving his body

1763
01:41:32,900 --> 01:41:34,700
in these dreams.
It's okay.

1764
01:41:36,200 --> 01:41:39,200
And that sounds pretty scary.
Yeah.

1765
01:41:39,400 --> 01:41:41,400
Now, I don't know much about
sleep paralysis.

1766
01:41:42,300 --> 01:41:45,800
Might have had sleep paralysis
that night but who knows?

1767
01:41:45,900 --> 01:41:50,100
Um, but I know that people who
deal with it, kind of have,

1768
01:41:50,100 --> 01:41:55,000
like, similar descriptions like
a pressure on her chest and they

1769
01:41:55,000 --> 01:41:57,600
can barely breathe, or they
great, right?

1770
01:41:57,600 --> 01:42:03,300
Yeah, stuff like that.
No, the actual word shadow

1771
01:42:03,300 --> 01:42:05,400
people were person or Shadow
being whatever.

1772
01:42:05,800 --> 01:42:11,900
First came up in a radio drama
from 1953 titled, the creatures

1773
01:42:12,100 --> 01:42:15,400
in the shadows.
I wish you to have read with

1774
01:42:15,407 --> 01:42:17,300
dramas wol.
I mean, this is kind of a radio

1775
01:42:17,300 --> 01:42:19,000
drama.
This is a bit podcasts are kind

1776
01:42:19,000 --> 01:42:20,900
of.
I mean, there are podcast that

1777
01:42:20,900 --> 01:42:22,500
people do as radio drama.
Yeah.

1778
01:42:22,500 --> 01:42:25,000
You know, I do love those and
you kind of tried to do that

1779
01:42:25,000 --> 01:42:27,600
with your YouTube channel, as
which we could totally do

1780
01:42:27,600 --> 01:42:30,000
something like that as a third
podcast.

1781
01:42:30,000 --> 01:42:34,600
But before we go, Third, we need
to make the first one

1782
01:42:34,600 --> 01:42:38,700
financially soluble.
Okay, we got a million ideas but

1783
01:42:38,700 --> 01:42:40,600
we need that patreon money
coming in.

1784
01:42:40,600 --> 01:42:47,800
Okay.
Oh my God, but you know what?

1785
01:42:47,800 --> 01:42:50,500
What are these means?
Like you said, some people say

1786
01:42:50,500 --> 01:42:53,500
they're like inhuman or you
think of them as human.

1787
01:42:53,800 --> 01:42:56,200
Some people think of them as
demons or right?

1788
01:42:56,200 --> 01:42:59,900
Yeah, I've heard that or ghosts
or, you know, just figments of

1789
01:42:59,900 --> 01:43:01,700
our and sleep.
Battled Minds.

1790
01:43:02,400 --> 01:43:06,100
Yeah, but what if you don't be
sleep, when he's here, that's

1791
01:43:06,100 --> 01:43:09,000
message.
Well, I'll tell you what, they

1792
01:43:09,000 --> 01:43:11,300
aren't there.
Actual Shadows.

1793
01:43:13,700 --> 01:43:16,300
There have been accounts of
these shadow entities,

1794
01:43:16,300 --> 01:43:18,600
interacting with objects in
ghosts.

1795
01:43:18,600 --> 01:43:22,800
Like have you ever heard of a
shadow touching a person or a

1796
01:43:22,800 --> 01:43:27,100
shadow moving an object?
No, because when I hear things

1797
01:43:27,100 --> 01:43:30,500
moving, that is a poltergeist
and we'll talk.

1798
01:43:30,500 --> 01:43:33,000
We'll L won't deal with that.
No, let me tell you two little

1799
01:43:33,000 --> 01:43:38,300
Tails, okay?
So, or one account and 11 year

1800
01:43:38,300 --> 01:43:42,700
old girl, she's potsie.
This is that night, she's in

1801
01:43:42,700 --> 01:43:46,300
bed, she spots a six-foot-tall
outline of a person standing in

1802
01:43:46,300 --> 01:43:48,900
her room facing her TV away from
her.

1803
01:43:49,200 --> 01:43:52,200
So, just imagine, yeah, that
sounds exactly like Poltergeist

1804
01:43:52,200 --> 01:43:58,200
fam.
So in the TV turns on by itself,

1805
01:43:58,800 --> 01:44:04,600
well like that but continue now
after TV turn on this outline of

1806
01:44:04,600 --> 01:44:10,300
the person shadowy person it
turns around to face her and

1807
01:44:10,300 --> 01:44:13,000
after you know a few seconds of
them just staring each other

1808
01:44:13,000 --> 01:44:14,700
down.
It just disappears.

1809
01:44:15,600 --> 01:44:20,200
Yeah I've heard lots of that
they just kind of like sobayed.

1810
01:44:20,200 --> 01:44:22,900
Yeah almost like so you're going
to turn my TV on?

1811
01:44:23,500 --> 01:44:27,000
And then leaves out rude.
Like, like, my dad is things

1812
01:44:27,000 --> 01:44:30,700
just kicked in.
I'm like, I had to like I don't

1813
01:44:30,700 --> 01:44:32,900
like call myself down.
I was like, you're wasting my

1814
01:44:32,900 --> 01:44:34,200
freaking lecture.
So you robbed.

1815
01:44:34,500 --> 01:44:36,400
My field is gonna be this one
out.

1816
01:44:36,400 --> 01:44:39,400
Thanks a lot.
You wasted our electricity,

1817
01:44:39,400 --> 01:44:46,700
ghosts booze.
Another account is when they

1818
01:44:46,700 --> 01:44:52,300
were actually being touched by
something, So guys sleeping on

1819
01:44:52,300 --> 01:44:57,000
the side and his bed you know
night time when suddenly he

1820
01:44:57,000 --> 01:45:01,300
feels someone sit down right
behind his back and then he

1821
01:45:01,308 --> 01:45:05,200
starts to feel someone poking
him in his back.

1822
01:45:08,300 --> 01:45:10,400
He opens his eyes and he looks
up.

1823
01:45:10,400 --> 01:45:14,100
And he sees three shadow people
looking good.

1824
01:45:14,200 --> 01:45:16,800
We don't like around his room,
that's too many.

1825
01:45:16,900 --> 01:45:20,600
Now he did not look around and
he did not turn around to see if

1826
01:45:20,600 --> 01:45:23,300
anybody was behind him to.
Yeah, so he was too scared to

1827
01:45:23,300 --> 01:45:28,300
move around.
I feel you, so, Either way after

1828
01:45:28,300 --> 01:45:30,400
he's done looking at them, they
disappear as well.

1829
01:45:31,100 --> 01:45:35,400
Hmm.
Yeah, so now we can go and sleep

1830
01:45:35,400 --> 01:45:38,900
paralysis.
Well, it's okay.

1831
01:45:38,900 --> 01:45:40,400
We'll talk.
What will ask questions about

1832
01:45:40,400 --> 01:45:41,800
when it happens when it doesn't
happen?

1833
01:45:41,800 --> 01:45:43,000
When you're sleep?
Okay.

1834
01:45:44,500 --> 01:45:46,900
I don't think I have the answers
just there right now.

1835
01:45:48,200 --> 01:45:51,400
Hmm.
Now, there's a common theme

1836
01:45:51,400 --> 01:45:54,900
with.
Well I've seen in this book

1837
01:45:54,900 --> 01:45:57,800
actually.
I forgot to mention my source

1838
01:45:58,000 --> 01:46:05,200
this book I bought is cold
Darkness walks.

1839
01:46:05,400 --> 01:46:10,300
Okay hold on.
There's a subtable to it.

1840
01:46:12,800 --> 01:46:17,200
It's called Darkness walks.
I think it's about my candles

1841
01:46:17,200 --> 01:46:22,700
acting up.
Okay, I get it anyway.

1842
01:46:23,100 --> 01:46:26,000
I'll tell you I'll after I'm
done, I'll tell you the whole

1843
01:46:26,000 --> 01:46:29,800
table.
But you know what?

1844
01:46:29,900 --> 01:46:35,800
With the with the accounts I've
read in this book, sleep

1845
01:46:35,800 --> 01:46:38,500
paralysis has been like the
common denominator, most of

1846
01:46:38,500 --> 01:46:42,300
them, or like them being, like,
it happening at night or them,

1847
01:46:42,600 --> 01:46:48,400
or this happening, after a
person wakes up, and not, I

1848
01:46:48,400 --> 01:46:53,100
don't know if you know this, but
like, The sleep paralysis it's,

1849
01:46:53,700 --> 01:46:55,700
you know, traumatic for my
understanding.

1850
01:46:55,700 --> 01:46:57,800
Yes.
But it happens during REM sleep

1851
01:46:57,800 --> 01:47:02,700
to write what it is is that you
are in a deep sleep and your

1852
01:47:02,700 --> 01:47:06,200
brains like, haha, I'm awake.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1853
01:47:06,200 --> 01:47:10,000
And during REM sleep, there's
this chemical or these hormones

1854
01:47:10,200 --> 01:47:14,200
that are released that are
supposed to stop you, from

1855
01:47:14,200 --> 01:47:18,200
thrashing around, and actually
acting out your dreams while

1856
01:47:18,200 --> 01:47:19,900
you're asleep.
I wish they did.

1857
01:47:22,000 --> 01:47:25,000
I wake up all scratched up.
I didn't hurt myself.

1858
01:47:26,600 --> 01:47:31,500
Me sometimes this happens and
then the person wakes up during

1859
01:47:31,500 --> 01:47:34,900
REM sleep and they can't move
their body because they're still

1860
01:47:34,900 --> 01:47:37,600
paralyzed.
But there still are awake

1861
01:47:37,600 --> 01:47:38,900
tactic.
But yeah.

1862
01:47:38,900 --> 01:47:40,000
But they're dreaming.
Yeah.

1863
01:47:40,000 --> 01:47:42,600
And your body is fully conked
out.

1864
01:47:42,700 --> 01:47:48,000
Yeah.
So that's that's basically what

1865
01:47:48,000 --> 01:47:55,600
that is.
Rosa, those who were unaware of

1866
01:47:55,800 --> 01:47:58,900
this phenomenon of sleep
paralysis is, it's basically

1867
01:47:59,000 --> 01:48:04,800
like, what we just mentioned
your sleep, you wake up, you're

1868
01:48:04,800 --> 01:48:09,300
fully aware, but you can't move
your body, you can't talk, you

1869
01:48:09,300 --> 01:48:12,500
gonna move your, basically, your
eyes and your brains, like, for

1870
01:48:12,500 --> 01:48:15,800
a lot of people, they see a lot
of really disturbing visual.

1871
01:48:15,800 --> 01:48:19,400
Yes.
That's hallucinations are very

1872
01:48:19,400 --> 01:48:24,900
common, obviously, Has know.
Why do we know why the

1873
01:48:24,900 --> 01:48:27,000
hallucinations are?
Is it just your brain being

1874
01:48:27,000 --> 01:48:30,200
really, really active?
Yeah, I think that's just like

1875
01:48:30,600 --> 01:48:32,700
that.
And just still being like that,

1876
01:48:32,700 --> 01:48:36,300
that dream state.
Maybe you're seeing your dream.

1877
01:48:36,400 --> 01:48:39,300
Yeah, in real life.
Yeah basically.

1878
01:48:40,700 --> 01:48:43,100
And like, yeah, who stations
just don't go from visible

1879
01:48:43,400 --> 01:48:45,800
visual.
They can, you know it's also

1880
01:48:45,800 --> 01:48:48,400
like the pressure, the pressure
you feel that's a hallucination

1881
01:48:48,400 --> 01:48:51,300
to because there's nothing like
really pushing pushing Down on

1882
01:48:51,300 --> 01:48:57,200
your chest when you're
paralyzed, but that's host

1883
01:48:57,200 --> 01:48:59,400
nation as well.
So yeah.

1884
01:49:04,300 --> 01:49:07,800
In the book.
I've never had sleep paralysis.

1885
01:49:07,800 --> 01:49:12,000
I know, I don't think I have
either but then I didn't I when

1886
01:49:12,000 --> 01:49:16,400
I'm thinking about that, tell
that story I told you, I'm like,

1887
01:49:16,400 --> 01:49:22,400
maybe I was maybe that was that
and I just I don't know, I don't

1888
01:49:22,400 --> 01:49:25,400
know my body just reacted to me
during my cover of my head and

1889
01:49:25,400 --> 01:49:28,800
then it did me just not being
able to move or something.

1890
01:49:28,800 --> 01:49:30,600
Because right after.
Right after that happened, I

1891
01:49:30,600 --> 01:49:34,000
just went back to sleep.
So, yeah, I didn't talk to

1892
01:49:34,000 --> 01:49:37,600
anybody about that.
Where was your brother dead

1893
01:49:37,600 --> 01:49:41,700
below you?
Yeah, so I had no bunk bed.

1894
01:49:41,700 --> 01:49:43,200
I was on top.
My brother's below me and my

1895
01:49:43,200 --> 01:49:47,000
other brother was in the other
bed, like a single.

1896
01:49:47,500 --> 01:49:49,500
Yeah.
So where were they just sleep?

1897
01:49:49,500 --> 01:49:55,200
Yeah, yeah.
Tara, I know it's horrible right

1898
01:49:55,200 --> 01:49:56,600
there.
I'm pretty sure the house is

1899
01:49:56,600 --> 01:50:05,500
just haunted but stories but in
this book there are different

1900
01:50:05,800 --> 01:50:09,700
religious takes of shadow people
or Shadow beings as well.

1901
01:50:13,100 --> 01:50:16,000
No these.
These beings could very well be

1902
01:50:17,300 --> 01:50:20,600
real or it could be your dreams
or, you know, whatever.

1903
01:50:20,700 --> 01:50:23,100
Okay.
Um, but Overworld different

1904
01:50:23,100 --> 01:50:28,900
religions.
For instance, the Jinn is an

1905
01:50:28,900 --> 01:50:31,700
entity from Middle Eastern folk,
lord.

1906
01:50:32,000 --> 01:50:36,500
They're believed to have been to
be invisible creatures, but they

1907
01:50:37,200 --> 01:50:40,800
wide array of bilities.
They can like shape-shift, they

1908
01:50:40,800 --> 01:50:49,000
can, you know, I'm not sure but
the Gent like and Western

1909
01:50:49,000 --> 01:50:54,100
Society, lot of the Jinn or
Genies Cheney but they're not as

1910
01:50:54,100 --> 01:51:00,600
positive as like, you know,
Prince Ali like it that I mean,

1911
01:51:00,600 --> 01:51:02,000
it's kind of a trickster
situation.

1912
01:51:02,000 --> 01:51:04,900
It's that whole idea of like you
know you make a wish but like

1913
01:51:04,900 --> 01:51:05,900
are you going to get what you
want?

1914
01:51:05,900 --> 01:51:16,600
Exactly.
But Jim are not actually what

1915
01:51:16,600 --> 01:51:19,800
I'm trying to say, evil know,
just like fairies their

1916
01:51:19,800 --> 01:51:20,600
trickster.
Yeah.

1917
01:51:22,400 --> 01:51:25,800
Well these are the gym talking
about that or not, evil or

1918
01:51:25,800 --> 01:51:30,400
actually like in the book.
It says they're Muslim Jim.

1919
01:51:30,800 --> 01:51:33,400
Jim gent that are from Muslims.
OK?

1920
01:51:33,400 --> 01:51:37,900
If I miss.
So those are supposed to be the

1921
01:51:37,900 --> 01:51:42,200
good gin.
Non-muslim Jin are ones that are

1922
01:51:42,400 --> 01:51:46,400
the evil ones, the more.
So what did the good ones?

1923
01:51:46,400 --> 01:51:48,100
Do they do the same things as
the other one.

1924
01:51:48,100 --> 01:51:50,000
Yeah.
Basically that's the people yeah

1925
01:51:50,000 --> 01:51:51,200
yeah.
Wow.

1926
01:51:52,100 --> 01:51:56,700
And apparently the good ones can
actually pass as being human.

1927
01:51:57,000 --> 01:52:00,900
Hmm and they can even marry and
have kids, that's right.

1928
01:52:00,900 --> 01:52:04,100
Yeah.
So you can be living with a gin

1929
01:52:04,200 --> 01:52:08,100
if I mean, I'm not entirely
upset with that concept.

1930
01:52:09,700 --> 01:52:13,800
Jeannie husband.
This is a whole new, that's

1931
01:52:13,800 --> 01:52:20,300
really genie.
That's how the new Aladdin was

1932
01:52:20,500 --> 01:52:22,500
at.
The end Will Smith is with that.

1933
01:52:22,600 --> 01:52:24,300
He hopes on what the hell,
right?

1934
01:52:24,300 --> 01:52:25,900
He did like that lady.
I'm yeah.

1935
01:52:27,000 --> 01:52:32,300
Exactly.
Now, the evil Jim.

1936
01:52:32,300 --> 01:52:35,800
There are thought to be a pit
Warriors for the devil.

1937
01:52:35,900 --> 01:52:39,400
Okay.
At least the money Jin appear as

1938
01:52:39,400 --> 01:52:46,600
dark figures and stalk mortal
souls and apparently a Jen is

1939
01:52:46,600 --> 01:52:50,800
attached to everyone.
I don't like that.

1940
01:52:51,500 --> 01:52:58,500
So, Our own personal Jen or
demon Jen, you know, for us

1941
01:52:58,700 --> 01:53:04,500
among non-muslims.
I don't get a good one because

1942
01:53:04,500 --> 01:53:10,200
I'm not Muslim basically sorry.
She's really I can't do that.

1943
01:53:10,200 --> 01:53:11,900
I don't like really any
religions.

1944
01:53:14,200 --> 01:53:17,300
So This is the funny part for
me.

1945
01:53:17,300 --> 01:53:23,300
It's like our own personal gym.
So when we die, and if you're

1946
01:53:23,300 --> 01:53:30,100
buried, your gin will sit on
your grave in curse, you until

1947
01:53:30,100 --> 01:53:36,100
the end of time.
What I do to you, what I do,

1948
01:53:36,100 --> 01:53:38,500
sir, that's what I was.
I was so bad.

1949
01:53:38,500 --> 01:53:39,800
I was like, what did I do to
you?

1950
01:53:39,800 --> 01:53:43,600
Why are you so mad at me?
Yeah, like I could just imagine

1951
01:53:43,600 --> 01:53:45,600
like my gym because I'm gonna be
cremated.

1952
01:53:45,600 --> 01:53:50,100
So Imagine my gym as I'm going
into like Crematory, it just

1953
01:53:50,100 --> 01:53:52,600
shaking his fists in Anger, they
kick her.

1954
01:53:53,600 --> 01:53:58,900
Now what happens is, whatever
mantle you get put on by either

1955
01:53:58,900 --> 01:54:02,700
Cassandra or jaehun.
They're going to be standing

1956
01:54:02,700 --> 01:54:06,500
right next to the mantle like
just shaking stink.

1957
01:54:06,500 --> 01:54:11,300
I think I'm iron and the worst
thing is one of like your kids

1958
01:54:11,300 --> 01:54:13,800
further down the line, we'll
have like a baby and the baby.

1959
01:54:13,800 --> 01:54:15,800
I'll toddle through and be like,
look at that big weirdo.

1960
01:54:16,700 --> 01:54:21,600
Yes, because you know, it's
always the babies that as can

1961
01:54:21,600 --> 01:54:24,700
see things.
Oh my God.

1962
01:54:25,700 --> 01:54:28,800
Another religion.
Almost a religion, but it's

1963
01:54:28,800 --> 01:54:33,400
additional people know, all too
well of Shadow beings.

1964
01:54:35,200 --> 01:54:38,400
He's apparently, there are two
different kinds.

1965
01:54:40,400 --> 01:54:42,600
There are some that are, you
know, more aggressive to people.

1966
01:54:43,100 --> 01:54:46,000
They're described as being
larger than average and average

1967
01:54:46,000 --> 01:54:49,500
person and their parents can be
monstrous in nature.

1968
01:54:49,500 --> 01:54:53,000
So maybe whatever.
Whoever you who you were talking

1969
01:54:53,000 --> 01:54:53,800
about earlier.
Earlier.

1970
01:54:55,800 --> 01:54:58,300
When they were talking about
shaver people and they said that

1971
01:54:58,400 --> 01:55:00,500
they looked like, oh, yeah,
yeah, yeah.

1972
01:55:00,500 --> 01:55:03,600
Her name is Amy.
And she does a TV show or she's

1973
01:55:03,600 --> 01:55:07,100
a medium and she talks about
like, the the ancient connection

1974
01:55:07,200 --> 01:55:10,700
like ancient being?
Yeah, actually, there's a great

1975
01:55:10,700 --> 01:55:13,200
there was a great episode where,
like, if people were like, yeah,

1976
01:55:13,200 --> 01:55:15,400
I keep seeing this creature
outside of our house.

1977
01:55:15,400 --> 01:55:21,800
It's like two stories high and
like, Amy was like, leave this

1978
01:55:21,800 --> 01:55:25,500
thing is older than this gland
and it's attached.

1979
01:55:26,200 --> 01:55:30,500
So, move somewhere else.
I love those ones when she says

1980
01:55:30,500 --> 01:55:32,100
stuff like that.
I think it's great.

1981
01:55:32,200 --> 01:55:34,000
Why you still there?
She's like, you need to move,

1982
01:55:34,000 --> 01:55:36,300
like you not.
Well, there's nobody who can

1983
01:55:36,300 --> 01:55:39,200
make this thick creature leave,
because it is older than

1984
01:55:39,200 --> 01:55:42,900
existence, you your house is
it's not your house, it's not

1985
01:55:42,900 --> 01:55:48,600
your house re-fry, can you
imagine you look out your window

1986
01:55:48,600 --> 01:55:53,600
on the second floor and there's
a gigantic just face looking

1987
01:55:53,700 --> 01:55:58,900
Shadows thing.
No, looking back at you bra.

1988
01:55:59,200 --> 01:56:01,600
I'd go back to sleep.
New house.

1989
01:56:03,800 --> 01:56:05,600
Go find a new house in the
morning.

1990
01:56:06,100 --> 01:56:08,500
Like, you're not waking me up or
like, can you help us?

1991
01:56:08,500 --> 01:56:13,900
And she's like, knowing I know I
can, this is out of my depth, oh

1992
01:56:13,900 --> 01:56:15,100
my God.
But yeah.

1993
01:56:15,100 --> 01:56:18,000
Or as that one guy from taxa,
it's above my head above.

1994
01:56:18,000 --> 01:56:19,800
My pay grade.
It's beyond me.

1995
01:56:20,000 --> 01:56:22,600
It's beyond me now.
Yes, it's beyond me now.

1996
01:56:22,600 --> 01:56:28,700
Honey, oh my God.
Yeah, so, you know these these

1997
01:56:28,700 --> 01:56:38,400
can be monstrous in nature.
And these beings are actually

1998
01:56:39,000 --> 01:56:42,600
products of what was once
described as I guess.

1999
01:56:42,600 --> 01:56:47,900
Bad Medicine, okay?
Or bad Magic.

2000
01:56:49,800 --> 01:56:52,100
Say it makes sense.
Actually.

2001
01:56:52,100 --> 01:56:57,200
So yeah medicine people who have
perverted from you know, what

2002
01:56:57,200 --> 01:56:59,300
they're actually supposed to use
your powers forever.

2003
01:56:59,300 --> 01:57:02,500
If they were originally using
your powers for like, usually in

2004
01:57:02,500 --> 01:57:05,400
for like helping people, healing
and stuff like that, and they

2005
01:57:05,400 --> 01:57:09,300
turn it to using their powers to
attack people instead.

2006
01:57:09,300 --> 01:57:14,700
And, you know, they they these
creatures or he's beings start

2007
01:57:14,700 --> 01:57:18,000
to appear.
Hmm.

2008
01:57:18,400 --> 01:57:21,200
Yeah.
So these beings, they actually

2009
01:57:21,200 --> 01:57:26,400
attack you physically and
mentally so not to me best.

2010
01:57:26,400 --> 01:57:29,700
But yeah, definitely.
On the other hand, they said,

2011
01:57:30,100 --> 01:57:36,100
Shadow beings.
Can be a good present in there.

2012
01:57:36,100 --> 01:57:37,600
Actually.
Tolerable is I guess like

2013
01:57:37,600 --> 01:57:40,500
Spirits like ghostly?
I think?

2014
01:57:40,500 --> 01:57:44,800
Yeah and I have a, I have a
friend whose house I stay at

2015
01:57:44,800 --> 01:57:48,000
sometimes and I just be somebody
like walking back and forth on

2016
01:57:48,000 --> 01:57:50,800
the porch.
Doesn't seem to be bothersome at

2017
01:57:50,800 --> 01:57:53,100
all.
He just seems to be restless.

2018
01:57:54,200 --> 01:57:56,300
I think he but I mean, I don't
know.

2019
01:57:56,700 --> 01:57:58,600
It just seems to be a shape that
every once in a while.

2020
01:57:58,600 --> 01:58:01,900
You just see it moving around in
here like all right, buddy, hope

2021
01:58:01,900 --> 01:58:03,100
your ass.
Life is cool.

2022
01:58:03,400 --> 01:58:10,300
Like my goodness I'd know I
wouldn't really look that bad

2023
01:58:10,300 --> 01:58:11,800
though.
Like what's wrong with that?

2024
01:58:11,800 --> 01:58:13,900
I mean I guess if you're not
bothering me that.

2025
01:58:13,900 --> 01:58:14,600
Okay.
Yeah.

2026
01:58:14,600 --> 01:58:17,200
Like what's the problem?
If it doesn't hurt you or scare

2027
01:58:17,200 --> 01:58:20,400
you it was true.
It was no problem but fell

2028
01:58:20,400 --> 01:58:21,200
asleep.
When goodness.

2029
01:58:21,300 --> 01:58:23,900
Okay.
Anyways, and I do spirits, you

2030
01:58:23,907 --> 01:58:26,700
know, these Shadows Spirits are
actually there to like guide

2031
01:58:26,700 --> 01:58:30,100
people are, you know, they might
give you advice, you know,

2032
01:58:30,500 --> 01:58:33,600
unspeaking advice but you know,
They're the guide you in the

2033
01:58:33,600 --> 01:58:38,500
right direction.
Last, I'm going to finish this

2034
01:58:38,500 --> 01:58:44,900
off with one of the I guess most
shared experiences Shadow

2035
01:58:44,900 --> 01:58:45,800
People.
Okay?

2036
01:58:45,900 --> 01:58:49,200
And that's the Hat man.
Have you heard of that me?

2037
01:58:49,400 --> 01:58:54,500
I think I've heard of people all
seeing a spirit with a hat.

2038
01:58:55,300 --> 01:59:01,200
Okay, this is he's described as
a tall shadowy figure.

2039
01:59:02,600 --> 01:59:05,900
Male stocking the corners of
people's rooms or, you know,

2040
01:59:05,900 --> 01:59:10,000
wherever all while wearing a
hat, it could be like a wide

2041
01:59:10,000 --> 01:59:15,700
brim, you know, had or I think
I've saw her a fedora as well.

2042
01:59:16,000 --> 01:59:19,400
Oh, no.
What do you call those people

2043
01:59:19,400 --> 01:59:21,000
who just wear fedoras, what are
you gonna?

2044
01:59:21,300 --> 01:59:24,100
I forget the term.
It wasn't very positive, it's

2045
01:59:24,100 --> 01:59:25,600
not a positive one, so I'm not
going to use it.

2046
01:59:25,600 --> 01:59:28,300
So used to him, it was a thing.
We made fun of people for a long

2047
01:59:28,300 --> 01:59:29,200
time ago.
Yeah.

2048
01:59:29,300 --> 01:59:35,900
Those Fedora wearing Males who
well actually, every Milady

2049
01:59:36,200 --> 01:59:56,000
milady.
M'lady.

2050
02:00:11,800 --> 02:00:15,400
So they actually might be
spirits of people who weren't so

2051
02:00:15,400 --> 02:00:20,900
good in their lives and passed
on pretty horribly as well.

2052
02:00:21,600 --> 02:00:25,500
So, maybe he's milady's.
They were just Well, I mean,

2053
02:00:25,500 --> 02:00:29,700
it's belief that like, most
people who stay have a reason to

2054
02:00:29,700 --> 02:00:31,600
fear the afterlife.
Yeah.

2055
02:00:31,800 --> 02:00:34,300
They're afraid of what comes
after.

2056
02:00:35,000 --> 02:00:38,100
Did I am?
I am I going to be okay?

2057
02:00:39,800 --> 02:00:46,200
No one knows, no nose.
But there are also a regular

2058
02:00:46,200 --> 02:00:51,100
citing during sleep paralysis.
So, they might be a ghost.

2059
02:00:51,100 --> 02:00:55,000
They might just be your sleep
paralysis demon coming too.

2060
02:00:56,800 --> 02:00:58,700
Sit on your chest and you know
what I mean?

2061
02:00:59,000 --> 02:01:06,300
Hmm some ufologist think that
these can you say that word

2062
02:01:06,300 --> 02:01:07,200
again?
Followed you.

2063
02:01:07,400 --> 02:01:13,600
Oh we talking about aliens You
always perverting my, my ghost

2064
02:01:13,600 --> 02:01:16,200
stories with alien talk, I can't
help me.

2065
02:01:16,200 --> 02:01:17,900
There's aliens is everything.
Okay?

2066
02:01:17,900 --> 02:01:23,700
I just want to enjoy goes.
Well, this is just a short

2067
02:01:23,700 --> 02:01:26,800
little blurry.
So you've nice and safe ghosts.

2068
02:01:26,900 --> 02:01:31,700
This they might be an alien
species like this.

2069
02:01:32,000 --> 02:01:34,400
Did you kill lucky?
Now I see why people keep

2070
02:01:34,400 --> 02:01:39,200
comparing us to Shane and Ryan
because I do not share your same

2071
02:01:39,200 --> 02:01:44,800
feelings about helium's In these
are awesome.

2072
02:01:44,800 --> 02:01:47,700
Okay.
I don't believe that they're

2073
02:01:47,700 --> 02:01:49,000
like little green people.
Okay.

2074
02:01:49,000 --> 02:01:52,700
No, neither why.
I mean there didn't have to be,

2075
02:01:53,400 --> 02:01:55,800
there might be some little green
aliens.

2076
02:01:55,800 --> 02:01:57,800
But, you know, they don't have
to be looked like the big-headed

2077
02:01:57,800 --> 02:02:00,200
ones that everybody thinks they
look like, they're not going,

2078
02:02:00,200 --> 02:02:01,400
we're not going to aliens right
now.

2079
02:02:01,400 --> 02:02:04,500
I'm just saying so you follows,
you think that this hat, man,

2080
02:02:04,700 --> 02:02:08,700
might be an alien species and
he's here to observe and collect

2081
02:02:08,700 --> 02:02:12,900
data from us, never know.
Just standing in your is like

2082
02:02:12,900 --> 02:02:14,100
the Men in Black.
Okay?

2083
02:02:14,100 --> 02:02:22,000
Just and your Ryan.
It's a ghost with a hat.

2084
02:02:22,500 --> 02:02:33,500
Sitting in the corner, taking
note, these are Mama's video, we

2085
02:02:33,500 --> 02:02:38,300
should have video because we're
like a good like 10 seconds.

2086
02:02:38,300 --> 02:02:43,500
My reaction was silence.
It was ridiculous silence.

2087
02:02:43,700 --> 02:02:45,300
It was a funny, the face you
made.

2088
02:02:47,400 --> 02:02:48,900
You never know.
It could be that.

2089
02:02:49,700 --> 02:02:52,800
I'm pretty sure it's not that
you know, 18, that's the

2090
02:02:52,800 --> 02:02:54,800
annoyance of the argument.
You never know.

2091
02:02:54,800 --> 02:02:57,100
It could be.
We want to think a lot of things

2092
02:02:57,100 --> 02:03:00,200
are aliens, but we're really
just ghost.

2093
02:03:03,500 --> 02:03:06,600
I haven't, I wanted to like read
one of these accounts from the

2094
02:03:07,300 --> 02:03:08,600
this book.
Okay.

2095
02:03:09,500 --> 02:03:10,700
This is a short one is real
short one.

2096
02:03:12,800 --> 02:03:15,900
And oh the book is titled
Darkness.

2097
02:03:15,900 --> 02:03:18,100
Walks the Shadow People Among
Us.

2098
02:03:18,300 --> 02:03:21,500
Hmm, I'll give it all to her
later.

2099
02:03:21,900 --> 02:03:24,200
I'll probably I'll put in the
show notes but that's the title

2100
02:03:24,200 --> 02:03:29,200
of the book.
So this is a tail and this is

2101
02:03:29,300 --> 02:03:33,100
its title stalked, by shadows.
And it's like I said, real

2102
02:03:33,100 --> 02:03:37,300
short.
So, although Sarah Kelly has

2103
02:03:37,300 --> 02:03:40,400
never seen the Hat Man.
Her mother and grandmother

2104
02:03:40,900 --> 02:03:44,700
weren't so lucky.
And this is a, my mother, my

2105
02:03:44,700 --> 02:03:48,600
mom, and my grandma have always
told me about this spirit, that

2106
02:03:48,600 --> 02:03:51,000
was following them wherever they
moves.

2107
02:03:51,700 --> 02:03:55,500
She said, in the beginning, they
were both here.

2108
02:03:55,600 --> 02:03:59,900
Heavy breathing.
Beneath my mom's bed when she

2109
02:03:59,900 --> 02:04:04,300
was little, then one night, the
monster came.

2110
02:04:04,600 --> 02:04:10,400
Out from under the bed, a tall
man, a long coat with no face

2111
02:04:10,700 --> 02:04:13,800
and black holes for eyes,
wearing some sort of hat.

2112
02:04:15,000 --> 02:04:19,000
Luckily, I've never experienced
that but it still gives me

2113
02:04:19,000 --> 02:04:21,000
chills.
Huh.

2114
02:04:23,900 --> 02:04:26,800
I don't think I, oh my God.
Could you imagine?

2115
02:04:27,000 --> 02:04:30,800
No, don't imagine because I
still have like that.

2116
02:04:30,800 --> 02:04:33,500
Minor experience where like you
lay your feet off the edge of

2117
02:04:33,500 --> 02:04:34,900
the bed and you're like a
better.

2118
02:04:34,900 --> 02:04:39,300
Not the one other touch my feet?
Nope, I was like, you know what?

2119
02:04:39,300 --> 02:04:43,000
Assaulted me, we're someone was
like if you have your hands

2120
02:04:43,000 --> 02:04:47,600
laying off the bed, the demons
going to like eat it.

2121
02:04:48,000 --> 02:04:51,500
Eat your hand and then in the
next panel they have their, but

2122
02:04:51,500 --> 02:04:55,100
hanging off the bed.
I was going to say, if you get

2123
02:04:55,100 --> 02:04:57,700
your hand off the bed team is
gonna hold you here.

2124
02:04:58,300 --> 02:05:00,900
Is that to say, please hold my
hand.

2125
02:05:13,100 --> 02:05:17,300
Oh my God.
But yeah, that's what I wanted

2126
02:05:17,300 --> 02:05:19,800
to do something a little out of
been trying to like find more

2127
02:05:19,800 --> 02:05:22,600
spooky things that cover because
I've been doing because the

2128
02:05:22,600 --> 02:05:25,000
Cryptids like Is it?
I wanted to get back to the

2129
02:05:25,000 --> 02:05:28,400
freaking black-eyed children,
where people listening, and it

2130
02:05:28,400 --> 02:05:31,300
is getting freaked out because
of the little black eye

2131
02:05:31,300 --> 02:05:37,500
children, coming to their doors.
But yeah, that's in the

2132
02:05:37,500 --> 02:05:40,200
black-eyed children, think?
One work on me because I don't

2133
02:05:40,200 --> 02:05:44,500
open the door for nobody.
Except if I know you're coming

2134
02:05:44,500 --> 02:05:46,100
over.
That's right.

2135
02:05:46,100 --> 02:05:48,500
Don't show up unannounced.
Please don't and I won't you

2136
02:05:48,508 --> 02:05:51,100
can't show show up.
Unannounced have keys.

2137
02:05:51,500 --> 02:05:54,800
So they know they can get in
because they have a key.

2138
02:05:54,800 --> 02:05:56,500
Hmm.
But stranger knocking on the

2139
02:05:56,500 --> 02:05:57,300
door.
Like listen.

2140
02:05:57,300 --> 02:06:03,500
The other day, a lady from
Comcast stop by and I like, I

2141
02:06:03,500 --> 02:06:08,500
slid, the had the door slide
lock on house like black lady.

2142
02:06:08,500 --> 02:06:10,600
And I was like, okay now open
the door and she was just like

2143
02:06:10,600 --> 02:06:14,500
high and I was like six you own
your own like box and I was like

2144
02:06:14,500 --> 02:06:18,300
I do and she's like, oh okay.
Because for people who don't own

2145
02:06:18,300 --> 02:06:20,100
them, I guess they're switching
to these other ones.

2146
02:06:20,100 --> 02:06:23,000
And then people who move here in
the future don't have to pay

2147
02:06:23,000 --> 02:06:27,700
for, like, a box from Comcast.
Comcast.

2148
02:06:27,700 --> 02:06:29,700
Yeah.
But I was just like, why are you

2149
02:06:29,700 --> 02:06:31,800
here?
She was very nice, though.

2150
02:06:32,300 --> 02:06:33,500
Have very cute.
Hair.

2151
02:06:33,900 --> 02:06:38,500
But I was just like, I am not
expecting visitors.

2152
02:06:39,300 --> 02:06:42,100
No, I have that.
No, soliciting sign on my door,

2153
02:06:42,500 --> 02:06:43,700
really?
Yes.

2154
02:06:44,100 --> 02:06:47,100
Yeah, because oh my god.
Look story time for another day

2155
02:06:47,400 --> 02:06:54,800
but After freaking, um, um, um,
it's vacuum sellers or I forget

2156
02:06:54,900 --> 02:06:57,700
go door to door vacuum people
that want to be a thing when we

2157
02:06:57,700 --> 02:07:02,300
were younger, that's still a
thing and they don't leave when

2158
02:07:02,300 --> 02:07:04,100
you say, no, thank you, I'm not
interested.

2159
02:07:04,100 --> 02:07:06,200
Well let me show you this.
They try to keep talking

2160
02:07:06,200 --> 02:07:09,400
yourself like make a mess on
your carpet and then vacuum it

2161
02:07:09,400 --> 02:07:11,800
up so that you can throw good.
It works bra.

2162
02:07:12,100 --> 02:07:16,800
Yo, we he was do was there for
like I want to say like, two

2163
02:07:16,800 --> 02:07:18,600
hours trying to talk is into
this stupid ass.

2164
02:07:18,700 --> 02:07:22,100
As vacuum so, see, that's just
like when you go on a trip and

2165
02:07:22,100 --> 02:07:24,200
they try and like they, like,
will give you all these things.

2166
02:07:24,200 --> 02:07:26,000
If you come talk, listen to our
timeshare.

2167
02:07:26,000 --> 02:07:28,300
Yeah, you can't do that.
That's not know.

2168
02:07:28,500 --> 02:07:31,900
So after that, I got to know
soliciting sign that says, no,

2169
02:07:31,900 --> 02:07:35,800
soliciting don't really
doorbell, don't make it weird.

2170
02:07:36,500 --> 02:07:38,500
We're now open door for you.
No thank you.

2171
02:07:41,000 --> 02:07:46,100
But yeah.
That's where I got like and it's

2172
02:07:46,100 --> 02:07:48,700
funny because they came and they
came to the door and then they

2173
02:07:48,700 --> 02:07:51,200
were like, oh well, we're
offering like a heat, the free

2174
02:07:51,200 --> 02:07:52,500
house cleaning or something like
that.

2175
02:07:52,500 --> 02:07:57,300
What will clean your wherever
your most walked about part of

2176
02:07:57,300 --> 02:08:00,100
your houses?
And we're like, oh, also my want

2177
02:08:00,100 --> 02:08:01,600
to clean the stairs today.
Let's go.

2178
02:08:01,900 --> 02:08:06,700
So, That's not how it turned
out.

2179
02:08:06,700 --> 02:08:11,300
So, anyway, thank you guys for
listening to this week.

2180
02:08:11,300 --> 02:08:15,500
Yeah, we had a good time.
As usual as usual can always

2181
02:08:15,500 --> 02:08:17,700
find us on all our social is
what you're all linked on when

2182
02:08:17,700 --> 02:08:21,300
Killers get caught.com.
Yes, check it out.

2183
02:08:21,400 --> 02:08:24,800
Please also links to our patreon
other ways to support us.

2184
02:08:24,800 --> 02:08:26,400
And thank you so much for
listening.

2185
02:08:26,500 --> 02:08:28,000
Yes.
Bye-bye,