Episode 11: Phoolan Devi, The Bandit Queen & America’s Favorite Demonologists Part 1

0:20 Everybody and serial killer country. My name is Brittany. Ransom, and my name is Brian winner. And this is when Killers got caught, a podcast devoted to deep dives, into the lives, and psyches of the Killer's. We love. To learn about each week. We'll discuss something new and interesting in the serial killer world and then we'll discuss one. Well-known or lesser known killer go deep into their childhood lives methodology. And most importantly how they got caught. And then because most of your killer fans, love a little spook, Brian will lead us down the road of the Paranormal, and to something that he found to be particularly creepy this week. But before we get into that, now, we were supposed to watch the Mormon murder documentary this week on Netflix, but we You watch two episodes. Two out of three is not bad.

1:02 We watched an episode and a half. Okay, well I watched two episodes. I did not watch the other half of the episode because there's a man on this documentary who has, I would a soft pillowy voice? And I go to sleep every time he starts talking, I'm sure like I'm sure there's something wrong with his throat. It has to be something like he just has a really soft delicate. It's really nice. Voice is not bad. No, it's just if I'm already tired and he starts talking. I'm like, that sounds good. Then I'm out. It's like Wilson the marketplace. Liar or you oh my God. So because when I watch it during the daytime I was like oh this is super interesting. So we're going to try and finish it by next week and then we can give you our opinion on the fact that The Mormon religion is a trap. It is a real true.

1:49 I already told you this. I didn't even know. It was it called until about a month ago and still you were like, it is definitely a cult Brittany. I'm like, no, this is just like spicy Christianity, you really know. It's more like, okay, it's Mormonism. Is kind of like Scientology, yes. Which I do not like I totally pulled it up while we were on the phone and it was like, was visited by an alien who gave Mm. He's okay. First of all, he's an angel whose name is Moroni. Sorry. Visited by an Angel who we need. We wait, no. It was an angel is always elevator, hold on. Alright, that's, that's what caused all the bombings that someone insinuated that it was actually not an angel was a white salamander and that made people really upset and then like four people got blown up.

2:37 So, when it was first, I think three people got blown up and then there was a potential for a fourth bomb to go. There was another one I was going to go. Go off. But the third one you gotta watch the second one because it explains everything basis for the bombs. All right then. Did you know? You just gotta look, you gotta watch it. I will, I will just not in the MIT like not late night, can't do it. Okay, I'll fall right asleep. So instead, I guess the topical thing, we're going to discuss this week is the Kendrick Johnson case that has been reopened. Yes. And for people who don't know, Kendrick Johnson was a teenager who was found dead inside of a vertically rolled up. Matt in the gymnasium of his high school in Valdosta Georgia, in 2013.

3:28 A preliminary investigation autopsy concluded. That it was an accidental death and people said that he had crawled into the mat to seek, I guess the the a lot of the boys like to hide their stuff there and because of going to their lockers, yeah, a lot of kids like to put their shoes or backpacks and stuff into these, because this was his second Gym, not the main gym where they did like gym class and stuff. Yeah, and they would store their stuff there because it was closer to their class. Asses than their actual lockers exactly. Also I guess the boys also shared shoes sometimes so they would like share like an expensive pair of shoes and they would drop the basketball shoes off at the gym and then put their regular shoes back on and go back to class. Yeah, I didn't know anything.

4:14 Listen shoes are like 500 of these. The Fancy Shoes are like five hundred dollars. So I understand like I guess like I didn't have any friends so I didn't have friends this year. She's right. But regardless. After this happened, it was a big thing. A lot of people were like, how is this possible? I used the same kind of math that they use at my job. We use it. When we do gymnastics class with the kids, right? And we're trying to figure out like how like 170-pound 17 year old boy fit in that with no one being able to see him and he was there for days which also, you know, I mean the parents bought a wrongful death suit against Against 38, different people who worked at the school and the the community for a hundred million dollars.

5:07 They originally said, like this is definitely murder and y'all are pushing it under the rug. Yeah, I believe there is. There are two students at the school who have family members who work for the feds and there was a belief that perhaps those boys had something to do with this and I gotta cover it up and that was covered up because they have Both parents in higher level law enforcement but regardless it's being looked into again because I mean we thought we heard the last of it in 2016 when the Department of Justice said we're not looking into this as accidental death. Yeah, they said was an accident. We're not looking into this. I'm uses eight years ago.

5:49 Do you remember? I don't remember how long ago, it was like a few years ago, so there's this black woman. She was at a flight or friend's party sleepover, and, you know, everybody's drinking and stuff in Chicago. I think it was, I think so she wandered off while she was drunk and she ended up in a freezer somehow locked inside of it. No, no, not that one. Oh, that one was weird. They were shoes that like a hotel party and she went off with somebody who we don't know who they are based. On the cameras and then like her mom called the police. They were like, oh, she hasn't been missing long enough and days later, they were able to discover that she was on a floor where they were doing construction in a freezer and I'm like, this is so suspicious and worse is that I think has happened in Chicago a couple years ago.

6:41 Definitely in the past decade, this is another one of those weird. The one I'm talking about it. I think happened either in Florida or Texas. Okay? She was out of like a friend's party, you know, she's a co-worker of his friend and she goes over to this, like birthday party or something like that. And I forget the name. Oh, I forget her name. I apologize. But, you know, she spends the night because, you know, they've been drinking and stuff. Right. Next morning, everybody now's finds her out dead and alone, alone, other condo, or whatever was it cold? Or she was just that she was dead. Oh wow, yeah. So you haven't heard that one. No, I don't remember that one.

7:24 Oh goodness. And they said that was probably excellent it because she probably fell off the balcony from the it beep. Really obvious. If she had fallen off of the balcony. Yeah absolutely. They had sustained several broken bones. I am lit. Look at your mark. I think she didn't there weren't a lot and that's what made it like, very confused. Yeah. And I got to look it up and see who the heck this my goodness. Well yeah, apparently. The, the, the newer County Sheriff says that the death initially ruled an accident should be investigated again. This is me, his parents have never given up.

8:04 I wouldn't of course, who would the yeah, I mean, they Accidental like positional asphyxia is, yeah, a horrible way to go. Yeah. And I just, I guess I don't even understand. Like, the way I like, how were they storing their shoes inside of the bats? That doesn't even make any logical sense to me? It's like that I would have hidden them behind the mats. You know what I mean? Hmm. And an autopsy conducted by an external pathologist. That his family ordered said that. He did also experience some blunt force trauma to his head, which is another thing that they believe was Made it more suspicious like that.

9:01 Somebody hit him and then somehow he ended up upside down and the thing I mean, that could be a thing. I mean that's like one. I mean, someone could have just, you know, kill them outright and then just stuff them in there because, but apparently, this is an uphill battle for this Sheriff because apparently his office has received 17 boxes of written and electronic evidence from the federal probe 1717. So he is a lot of stuff to go through. Interviewing over 100 people, tens of Of emails and text messages between the young people reviewing, hundreds of hours of surveillance videos from the high school.

9:49 All this between January, 10th to the 11th. 2013, he has a lot. His name is Paul. Yeah, a lot of times when there is pressure on a police department to get an answer, I worry that they are just picking the first answer the easiest answer instead of you know, it's not like TV. Yeah and TV. It's like we can spend all this time focusing on this one case. I mean here, it's June 2013.

10:30 Mmm, the whole world is aware of what happened here. And the pressure is on them to figure out what happened. Figure it out quickly and close this case. So that everybody in the world is not looking at Valdosta Georgia and shaking their head at us. That's funny. Okay, so I did find the name of the woman and so it was too as an 18-0 guy happen. Wow. And guess what it was in Georgia. Oh wow yeah so Tim Le horse for it. Yeah that sounds familiar. Okay yes she was attending a friend's Adult sleepover birthday party or something like that and they found her dead in the backyard. I will admit.

11:13 So we used to have what we called, adult sleepovers in college, and it was also because we have been drinking well and here, but here's what we would do, right? Okay. So it was our, our major plan, we would go and we would pregame at like a restaurant that had like a good deal on booth and we'll come back and we would do our our makeup and that was a whole ordeal and I would do. Everybody else's may come from and then we go back out and then we'd come back and we'd end up like laying on somebody's floor and somebody's house, you just talking it like to have that morning. So I mean this is not that crazy when she went to she went to like a little you know little girls slumber party. Yeah.

11:56 She's looking down side is that she died. Yeah, she was only by person there to okay well I got feelings about that. Isn't that weird that like we're expected to be okay about that entering into an environment where there's nobody like you. It's it's weird it's definitely it does feel a little uncomfortable not gonna lie because I feel like in any other situation like if you put like just one random Caucasian person in a room with no one liked them, they would feel very uncomfortable and real-world everything. Dave, Chappelle I have seen a vision that I just don't remember that one, but it is when his kids They put one, you know, how he made a joke of saying how they always put this one, black guy, and his house of all these, like, six different, wow.

12:45 Yeah, I know you're talking about. Yeah. Yeah. And you put one white guy in this house with some bunch of white people. Let's see how that works out. It didn't work out really well. I do remember that. It's just like, I mean, to be honest really Yeah, but like any time, I'm I'm out with my friends or, you know, hanging out with people. I just subconsciously, I just look around. I have to look around and make sure like is there. Another person that looks like me? Oh, absolutely. Is there somebody here? Who hit my back somewhere?

13:26 Like it's just like a it's a thing. I mean, what's also understands you know, we talked about a lot of crimes where women are the victims. Yeah. People are just look. Yeah. You should do this thing or you should do that thing and I'm like, do you understand the like unconscious level of checking that I do all the time, like in the last podcast? I mentioned to you that I if I get off the elevator with somebody on my floors, I wait. or there was one night, I dropped off like my trash at the trash chute and there was another guy who like walked in after me and after he like like he asked me like some really awkward questions and I was just like I'm taken and he was just like he kept asking questions and I was like nope that's it.

14:20 We're done here. And then like my brain went, you know what I should do right now, I'm going to step into the The stairwell. Hmm and so I instead of going directly to my because you doing my instead of going directly to my door, which is right there. Yeah, I dipped over to the little hallway over there. Am I turned and went into the stairwell and I waited and I was like, how long do I have to wait here, to make sure that he is moved on because the last thing I want is for him to know where I live. Yeah, that shit. It's we already live on the same floor. I don't want him to know exactly what room I live in what apartment I live in. And so that's what's, so that's things that people don't recognize when they're a part of the dominant group.

15:07 Like, how much stuff you do to make sure you were in a good place, right? Yeah. Yeah. Just subconscious stuff. You grow up. You learn to do. Yeah, this is true. Yeah. Like, it's very dark outside right now. I don't even songs over though, that's true, but I don't walk outside in the dark. This is yeah, we a burning look. Okay, I'ma be honest again, when I'm walking from your apartment, to my car, your little nervous, just a little bit on some of those side streets, and I'm just like, let me where my keys at. Let me find those real quick, but as we're to my fingers, what? You need? One of my your life. Yes.

15:51 Not right. Not not lying. Listen, I wish sure Sheriff, poked all the good feelings in the world. Good Vibes to you, sir. You got a long investigation front of him and the thing is, No One's Gonna Be Happy. Depending on the outcome of this. Yeah. Because if he finds out, it was murder, then a whole nation will be enraged. If he does this whole huge investigation and he finds it was an accidental death. A whole nation of people will be upset with him. I mean, it'll be the same outcome of the finance and accidental death though, so yeah. But is that they'll just have more closure and just I mean it'll be still answers as to why.

16:36 But other than that it's not much you can do about it. Yeah. Okay. When Killers get caught is sponsored by the magic class Boutique. Now, why does that name sound so familiar? Well, it's because as a business ran by our very own Britney, that's right into the magic class. Boutique is not only a black-owned business. It's a woman-owned is well, this is a jewelry company and I make some pretty awesome earrings. Reading from cute little sushis 2spooky mermaid skeletons.

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18:18 So in our quest to continue looking for more International people, as I mentioned in our trailer that we recorded, I have a huge Master list of every serial killer who has ever been caught since roughly like 1900 across the entire world and they're organized by country. And then there's a whole subset of America because we have so many, but generally the rest of them are organized by country. So it's just like, You know what? I haven't looked at India ever. So, I started like typing in names, and when I typed in This Woman's name, I came across a book called The Bandit queen of India. And Indian woman's amazing journey from peasant to International Legend, awesome title, right? And when you see a title like that, you gotta buy it, no matter what the story is about, you gotta buy it, can ignore it. And, you know, I expected to find a woman who was a hero, but actually, she was kind of an antihero, the Peugeot. And I'm not exactly bothered by the fact that she killed over 20 men.

19:28 You will find out why as we journey into this tonight, okay? Unlike my usual subject of serial killers, this woman phoolan, Devi, qualifies more as like a spree, killer / Revenge killer, and this is a woman who went from being born a peasant. Went to becoming a bandit to a victim to a killer to an activist and politician. I'm here for the Bandit - oh yeah, I'm very excited to tell her story because I'm not sure that shoe. Many people know about her and just what a life that's a real Arc right there.

20:08 But like I do with every week, I talked about the beginnings of these call them Infamous people you go not all amazing but Infamous so philosophy was born August 10th 1963 in a small village called gorica para and uttar Pradesh which is we would look at it like States so different states in India. She Is the fourth child of parents Debbie, DIN and Moolah. She was born into the mall and cast, the molinar traditional, Boatman and fishermen tribes, and communities, and north, and east, and Northeast India as well as Pakistan for folks.

20:55 Who don't know. India has operated in a social stratification system called a caste system. Since about 1500 BC, it is one of the world's oldest forms of social stratification and is based on people's work and their Duty upper and lower castes specifically in the area that I'm talking about today. Lived in segregated colonies, where they didn't even share, water resources, and like many social systems. Like this, it offers privileges to the upper caste and sanctions and repression of the lower caste by the more privileged groups. Despite being criticized globally. And also, within India for being an unjust system, it's remained virtually unchanged trapping people into this fixed social order where they can almost never escape and the cast that flan was born into the Malin cast.

21:56 It's so low and down in the totem pole that the only people like below her. I referred to as the Untouchables. So they are seen as like kind of the scum of the earth. Yeah, so she was not the lowest but pretty far down there. She was close. As a member of that lower caste. She was very very poor, her family had one asset, a one acre Farm where the large old me. Neem tree on it. It's a specific type of tree only grown in India, called neem, and her father's plan was to harvest the wood from that tree to be able to pay for a dowry for his several daughters to marry off really, isn't that like revver tree. It's not so much that people need lumber. Okay.

22:46 And they're all broke. He had actually inherited 15 Acres from his parents when they died but his brothers Pretty much stole it from him, one of fool ins cousins, his name was Maya, didn't was a very well-connected man and aided in that land thievery. Her uncle had been doing everything the slowly take the land away from the family. So when foulon was 10, she had had enough. Of course, she demanded that her father fight for the land. As it was the only thing that the family had, but her dad didn't have much in the way of like socio, political capital, and he was honestly weary after a years, long fight with his family over. This property, her uncle had taken it over, just through pure dishonesty and it had left salons family and like, more poverty than other people in their community. So full-on decides she's had enough and she confronts her cousin might him.

23:52 So she begins publicly calling him a thief and attacking him when she sees him, then she can fizzes convinces, her sister and some other girls from town to do. Sit in at the tree, the neem tree on their property and this is like it lasted for a significant period of time early. She's 10 years already 10 years old and she wouldn't leave when, even some of the Elders of the community tried to drag like the girls home. It only ended because Maya didn't showed up and he hit her with a brick well knocking her unconscious dude come on.

24:36 Yeah, this is a weird blood Feud that's going to continue on for quite some time, my God. So, after that event, I might in kind of stops for a little bit at least publicly foulon, still hates his guts and refers to him as the thief, whatever she can in public, which is not a good thing to be, just yelling at someone in the streets, even now after a thief. I mean yes. But they're safe though. Yes, my Aiden was a thief, but well, so for about a year he kind of keeps his mouth, shut, nothing publicly is happening, but on the back end, He is finding a way to rid himself of fool on every single girl. Oh, now she's 11.

25:22 There's an 11 year old girl. Oh my God, he finds a more well-off man. Who'd agree to take her as his bride, her family accepted as was the custom at the time. And this worked out for my attend because this this new husband didn't live, very close to her family. The only problem is that he was in his 30s and foulon was 11. His I'm was putting lull and in her autobiography, she calls him. A man of very bad character, which I feel like she was being very kind. Yes, was in this description. I mean, a 30 year-old Mary, an eleven-year-old, yes. Yeah.

26:04 Putting mistreated her from the beginning. Sexually assaulting her and beating her from the start. And this is pretty rough because she's away from home like, well, over an hour, like it's not, it's this wasn't a, she could just walk home situation, she was hours away from home in a very rural area. She was isolated and but she did try and run away from her husband several times. And every time she was returned back to him, he would be her more savagely. Finally, she was returned to her family because her husband was like, she's too young for wifely duties. No shit. Why did you marry her in the first place? Yes, you have words to say you, but I'm trying to your feelings about this. But three years later at 14, they return her to her husband, it's 1977 she kicked up a huge fuss this time, she protested and her husband brought her back to her family's home. The problem was 1977 rural India. A wife leaving her husband in this manner is considered very taboo and her community marked her. as a social outcast, almost immediately So she's already one of these people of a lower caste, she has someone with some political clout, very angry with her.

27:34 And now she's being deemed like unfit woman and a social outcast. Like she's just getting dug further into the hammered further into the ground horse, okay? Okay. Now fully back home. Foulon is back on. I can only say back on her bullshit, Buckle her uncle hating because she is back to bothering her cousin about the fact that you stole 14 acres from us, she will not let it go. She accuses him of stealing the land, she tries to take him to court on her own at 14 years old. Wow. And she loses the case in 1979 when she's 16 with a case, lasted, two years ago she was listen, full-on was just like as a child, a force to be reckoned with nice. So then might and comes up with a new plan. He calls some of his police buddies and he, accuses foulon of stealing things from his house. She gets put in jail for 3 days where she is beaten and raped by guards in the prison.

28:56 It was at this time in her life that she developed a bit of a hatred towards men, understandable specifically man who Abused Women and also a serious distrust of the justice system. Absolutely. Understandable, when she was released from prison, her family and Community shunned her for being a thief, even though she never stole anything. And for time in her life, she just felt really helpless. So before I get into, what I can only refer to as the banded era of fool, ons life, I have to give you some backstory here in India. They have a different name for gangs, they call them the dacoit and there's a long storied history about why they even exist in India, but they are a part of organized and sometimes disorganized crime in several areas of India, with some being, very traditional gangs, you know, they have protection schemes. Yes, they are just going around.

29:56 Causing a ruckus. We have some other very Robin Hood. Ask, you know, Rob the rich to give to the poor. Yeah. Like some of the Robin Hood ones would Target wealthy people and then pay the medical bills or weddings of poor people. That's awesome. I love that other two quite, we're like the Mob of the 20s, they targeted businesses, offered protection, that sort of thing. So the most comic kind of decoy actually kidnapped wealthy people and the demanded Ransom money from Wealthy relatives. I mean, they give them back though, right? If they got their money, okay. Well, I mean, those are kind of Robin, Hood SQ, edgy Robin Hood. There you go.

30:40 There's a bit of a dispute here and some of the tax. So and rulon's book, she says that she was kidnapped by a dacoit gang but in a different biography I looked at they posed it as full-on walked away from her life with her family. Family, because there was nothing there for her anymore. But either way she's 18, it's 1979 and now she's with this gang, the leader, his name is Babu kjar. Expresses a desire to rape her but she has been offered protection by Rick Vikram Milad. The second in command who is of the same cast as her Babu was of a higher caste. Which is why he felt like he had the ability to just do whatever he wanted, right? I'm like I'm Les you know this I want to do this to you and it may arise like just letting you know like yeah you know I'm doing that later whether you want to do it. Oh my God I'm doing it.

31:35 Well aha one night he comes to try and rape her and Vikram kills him and assumes the position of being the new leader of the Gang. Fool on is like, this is awesome. Like, you really have my back. Thanks. Yep. And she's like, you know what? I have no problem becoming your second wife, okay? So like, listen, I'm good. Like this is, I'm you gotta figure though like Vikram is probably the only man in her life who hasn't harmed or like, seriously neglected her right. That's true. I mean, he was honest with his, his word, he did protect her. Hey, so listen, I got you back honey.

32:15 So It's not that crazy, that she would become emotionally attached to the only man who's really put up with really fought for her. Yeah. So to take that a step further fool on tells him about her ex-husband and he's like what? So he brings the whole gang to the village. Where her ex-husband lives? Oh, they wreck the village. Full-on walks into her prior home stabs her ex-husband in the chest and then drags his body out in front of all the other villagers leaving him for dead.

32:59 On the side of the road, as a warning, to older men to leave young girls alone. Yes. Okay. I'm down with that. Also during this time Vikram teaches her, how to use a rifle and she participated in some normal gang activities across utter Pradesh and madhya Pradesh. Things like robbing higher. Caste Villages kidnapping upper caste landowners for ransom train robberies. Oh, okay, all sorts of fun gang activity. So wait, are they the Robin Hood type of gang or I think they're kind of regular. Okay there's the gang.

33:41 Got it after every crime, foulon finds a Durga Temple. That's one of an Indian goddess has Hindu goddess Durga and she thanks the goddess for her protection. Things. This was great. She's like this is the best, like, two years in my life. Of course, things can't really go well for our heroine of the story. So to upper caste gang members named Shriram, and Lala ROM decide to come back to the gang. They were two brothers who belong to the, the core cast. The, the core are mostly small landowners. So essentially these two were brothers.

34:23 Born into Lynn on our wealth. Why you join a gang? When you already have money is very confusing to me. You probably want to piss off their dad, maybe I don't know. Well, when they rejoin the gang, they're like, where's Babu? And everyone's like he died. He did and they are outraged but not that Babu was killed that. He was killed by a man of a lower caste well y'all can do any better because you weren't here. So why don't You care? And they're upset that someone of a lower caste is in charge of the gang and therefore in charge of them. You don't have to come back, you just go.

35:03 It was just tense and it was even more tense because Shriram kept making sexual advances towards foulon and vikram's like, yo, that's my wife. Apologize to her. Yeah, no, no no, no, no. So thing about this particular gang, that who I am is a part of is that it was comprised of many different people of different castes and so they would go to like different villages to Rob them. And so, when the gang robbed a Malin Village, the ROM brothers would make fun of and mock like the Malin people that's the same cast that was Vikram and full on our part of and that really upset like members of the gang who were also part of that cast and they started Leave. You're like, I can't get any respect in life and now, I'm not even getting respect in my gang.

35:54 Whoo, yeah, so with that Gap in like gang members, Shriram gets a dozen, the course to join. And navigating has more higher cast members than lower cast members. Vikram, trying to be a good leader is like, hey, why don't we just split into two groups and y'all can do your upper caste stuff and you can lead them and I will lead the group of like Malin members. Hmm. So there's no in in gang fighting, we can all be happy right, right? Nope. Sriram's like nah. And one night, he actually just outright tries to kill both foulon and Vikram while they're sleeping Vikram. Manages to escape that day, but they did kill him several days later.

36:44 No, they kidnap flan and take her to a village. It's called Abba my Village, which is for people of that cast, The Core cast and they lock her up and proceeded to beat and Angry / for several weeks. They would, they also like tried to humiliate her like they would make her strip and then walk through the city like getting water for them or like getting food for them and things after about three weeks of this, she manages to escape with two of the other Mullan gang members from vikram's gang.

37:29 And another lower caste villager who helped her out. Okay, flan heads out and and begins finding other Malin and creating her own gang with a man by the name of Maan Singh. He was a member of vikram's older gang and they begin a series of violent robberies and north and Central, India, only targeting the wealthy. They do not Target any lower caste Villages here sir. There are the Bad Robin Hood's. Well, so here's the thing Indian officials will say, says say this is a mess. if but many other sources say that fool on shared her wealth from these attacks with lower caste villages, And that one makes more sense to me.

38:16 Yeah. Because later on when there is a multi-year Manhunt for fool on nobody can find her. Oh and I know damn. Well, somebody knew where she was but because she had put them on for so long. They were like nah, you're good, you're good. We got you. You can hide out in the back room. Nice, she protects us know whatever. Yep. No one ever turned around, when that man had happened, I will explain to you why, that man happens in a little bit, okay? But So this goes on for 17 months of her attacking these very wealthy tribe. These very wealthy like Villages stealing the stuff. Like doing her Robin Hood thing.

39:04 And after about 17 months, she has this whole gang of lower caste people around her and they decide they're going to return to but my She is looking for the wrong Brothers on February 14th. 1981 Foolin and her gang show up dressed like police officers. The the cores in the village are actually preparing for a wedding. And if you know anything about Indian weddings, they are massive community events that are very lavish and very beautiful. So, the entire Community is a part of this, they're all out. Getting ready for this wedding. They basically shut down the whole town for that Rahul on does not care.

39:49 Okay, she wanted two things. She requested all of the money and valuables in the city and she said bring me Shriram and follow rum. Now details of what happened. Next are a little bit fuzzy. Some say that because she couldn't find the wrong Brothers, she became enraged. Others say that while she was looking through the city, she recognized several of the the core who had participated in her apes and had murdered her husband. Hmm, what we do know is that one in Sue's on February 14th is the largest Massacre by an outlaw in all of Indian history.

40:31 The gang searches, the entire town at gunpoint and when they cannot find the ram, the ROM Brothers, they line up everything core man in the village and shoot him. Many of whom had nothing to do with her prior assault. Of course. At the end of the day, though, 22 men or not. Later fool on would say she actually never raised her weapon that day because she was saving her bullets for the ROM Brothers make sense. And the killings were actually done by her gang essentially as a means to kind of uphold her on her. Regardless, the police launched a massive Manhunt after these Saint Valentine Massacre, they do refer to it as a Valentine Massacre. Only the Indian Saint Valentine Massacre, okay? Also, it's also known as the BMI Massacre. And remember how I said, magically none of the lower caste villagers, never knew anything about fool ons, we're about right?

41:29 Of course, that's why I think she must have made all of those people believe in her based on the fact that she supported them financially. Because no cops ever found her. In fact, the chief minister of uttar Pradesh, his name was VP Singh actually resigned in the wake of the by Massacre. And this is the point in history, when the people of India, begin to call phoolan Devi. The Bandit Queen. I love it so much. They start making dolls that look like her. Oh my god. Oh, what would? And the dolls are dressed as a Hindu goddess Durga. And they're being sold all over uttar Pradesh.

42:12 Oh my God. And the Indian media is pretty much like yeah, this chick is awesome. If you honestly, if you go look at pictures of her right now. Yeah, they're really cool photos of her in this. Like she's got like the the whole bullet belt across her chest carrying a rifle. She looks like a freedom fighter. I love it so much. This media frenzy captures the attention of the Prime Minister who requests the help of as many police as he can to find her. We're talking thousands of police have come to our Pradesh to find her. They request the help of several different rival gangs. Who want to kill her to try and find her. And the reason why there was this political push here is because foulon had upset the social order of India. She was from one of the lowest castes and she had threatened, higher caste people, humiliated them. And even if she was just a small town, girl, with a really tiny gang beside her given, she was giving the lower caste people hope that she, that they could rise up and she was a threat to the upper caste how dare she?

43:26 Hmm. It's interesting because when you look at other other materials upper caste people write about her as if she is. This ruthless villain who murdered a man on his wedding day. But for millions of The Untouchables in India fool on, is this badass gun-slinging bandana, where an outlaw who was a goddess among humans, hmm. I love it. I love it so much. So by 1983 this man hunts been going on for two years. Mmm the police cannot find her the rival. Gangs cannot find her the Bandit king and queen is elusive but for flan She is exhausted, imagine running around, she's 30 years old, but she feels much older than her time. Many of the people who have been riding with her throughout this process.

44:30 Now, roughly almost four years. There are a lot of them are dead or they're just exhausted. So, she reaches out to a gandhian. Peace activist. Who reached who reached out on her behalf to the government and they negotiate a surrender, she agrees, she'll surrender February 1983. But I have some conditions, of course, first she says, I don't trust any police or politician in uttar Pradesh. So I'm going to surrender myself to the madhya Pradesh police, which is nearby State.

45:12 Then she says, I will only lay down my guns and front of a picture of Mahatma Gandhi and goddess. Durga dr. Police there you go. Then she tells them you can have my surrender. If death penalty is off the table, none of my gang members will be jailed for longer than eight years. I want the plot of land that my uncle stole return to my family, who owned that? Oh my God, I think wait, so it's 1983 and she was born in Oh God, 1963.

45:55 No, she's actually. So it's 20. She's 20 years old 20. It's been like, okay, okay, I mean like Grudge, 10 years. It's been 10 years. Oh my God. When she's 20 years old been 10 years and she's like I want the plot of land that my uncle stole from my family returned right now and you can have me go right ahead and then she says my brother needs job. So get him a job in the government needs to provide for his family. I love it. Oh my god, this is my issue. And she actually hated it and she threatens like armor self in public if they didn't remove it.

46:48 Oh damn. They ended up giving her a settlement over it but like I feel like we should do a modern movie about her. Definitely. Oh my God, not like a Bollywood, like know any dancing and singing in this film know you miss needs to be like a real hardcore tail. Oh yeah. Oh my God. I'd love to see that. Absolutely like, what it Create love. Just listen. But either way, considering the government hasn't caught her, they're like fine, whatever will give you what you ask for it. So finally, after 10 years and many bodies and her, humiliating wealthy people and just love is stealing from the rich and giving to the poor. She manages to get the whole 15 Eggers, her father's desires.

47:33 Thank you, turn to him. Good job. Good job. So the the gandhian, peace activists, let's a police chief know where she is. He arrives at their hiding place which is in the Trumbull Ravines, he meets her and the Gang mates. And they walk to the city of Bend. There is a crowd of roughly 10,000 people, and 300 unarmed police officers, and the chief minister of madhya Pradesh. His name is Arjun Singh. And they all watch her as she puts down her guns in front of two gigantic, portraits of Gandhi and the goddess, Durga. And then they all surrender themselves. And this is where a real big circus starts. Oh no, come on for longest charged with a total of 48 crimes, 30 of them are dacoity which is just straight banditry thing.

48:36 She did, while she was lead, the gang, you said three of them 30 charge. Okay, she also gets charged with kidnapping and the wheels of Justice seem to be working but they grind to a halt. Now, that fool on is in prison. The former the Our gang members and all of her other enemies, begin filing cases against her requesting trial, after trial that keep her original case from being ever handled. It was, it was like, they found a weird loophole where they could keep her in the system as long as another Rich, the core popped up and charged her with something ridiculous. Hate them now, and the problem is, even though her family had gotten their land back, they didn't really have money for proper legal representation, and the prime minister.

49:22 Really Indira Gandhi had been assassinated shortly after her capture. So the whole government was going through a new process of new people being in power and things of that nature and this continues. Now mind you she was she surrounded herself in 1983, this goes on for 11 years. With her being in a legal. I don't know what would you call it Purgatory on. Yeah. And then in 1994 a new prime minister gets elected who is also of a lower caste and he just goes this is absolutely ridiculous that y'all are still doing this and he actually just outright pardons her.

50:08 Yes he said screw it. Yes you did nothing wrong, fantastic full-on. I love this. Look like Wait, this is a murder story. It is because I love her so much. She did Kill like 27 or so 22 people. Yeah. But he's our man right? Yes. Okay, I mean I mean what I love this so much. Okay, so it's it's 94 and she's free but jail has been very hard. I mean, now she's 31 and what she finds that as she's been released back into Indian Society, she still very much a beloved figure among the masses. It's almost a little bit of a like the reason why I like when she says she called herself an international Legend, there was a lot of Legend and and all about her at this point and she thinks about it for those next two years and then she decides. Well, what I'm going to do with all of this social Alive somehow earned over the last 10 years is I'm going to run for Parliament. And she runs on the platform of speaking for The Untouchables, and for women, there you go.

51:29 Yes, because women have very little political representation. Actually, and she wins and that 1996 election. And after she was elected, she gets interviewed by a western journalist who talks to her about, like, you know, the fact that she was sexually assaulted and this is what she said, it's a direct quote, you can call it rape in your fancy language. Do you have any idea what it's like to live in a village in India? What you call rape? That kind of thing happens to poor women in The Villages everyday. It is assumed that the daughters of the poor are for the use of the rich. They Zoom that we're their property in The Villages. The poor have no, toilets. So we must go to the fields and the moment we arrived, the rich Laius there.

52:13 We can't got the grass or tend to our crops without being accosted by them. We are the property of the rich. They wouldn't let us live in peace. You will never understand what kind of humiliation that is if they wanted to rape us molest us and our families objected, then they drape us in front of our families. That was the life that she was born into. Yeah, and unfortunately, in certain rural areas of India, even today. That is stuff that happens, obviously, not all that, a huge section of India is very tech-savvy. I mean, they people have very Advanced degrees, huge science, but it's a country where you have huge cities with technological leaps and advancements and then you have rural.

53:08 Cities that are very very small. Whee whee whee whee whee whee out in the middle of nowhere. Right? Right. Where there's very little protection. Like there isn't even a police department in some of these small villages, so it becomes the will of the people. I remember, I believe I remember a couple years ago reading a story about a woman who was sexually assaulted and she'd be headed the man who raped her and she walked into the town like the Of town holding his head and being like, here you go. This is my honor and she like threw his head in the middle of town. She did get apprehended but I still applaud her right. Absolutely. I mean, hey, she got arrested for murder but I'm like, I mean really.

53:54 She defended herself. Exactly should have stayed out of my Hut. Is that a pun? No, I'm just saying you should stay down. Okay. I was about to say, Hung up on making around here other thing, I don't make puns, that's you, but like full-on had a very solid social justice philosophy. Actually, she believed in Gandhi Buddha, Jesus Durga, and a man, by the name of Bob Mayo, ambedkar embed car. He was an Indian politician who campaigned for social reform, and he also campaigned against discrimination of The Untouchables as well. She lost her seat.

54:37 Parliament in 98 and I got it right back a year later. Nice. She actually she lived in a modest home and she did get married again. Strangely enough. She did meet somebody whose ideals lined up with hers and supported her in her political career. Okay. No, I hate the way you're speaking because it sounds like you're talking the past tense. Like she's not around anymore because she isn't and we're getting into that point now. Uh-huh. Flan was never unaware that she had many, many enemies. She had a dog at home. She had guards who accompanied her whenever she left her house, she wore a bulletproof vest any time she left home, and she carried an end, an Enfield rifle, and a bandolier full of ammo on her at all times, but unfortunately, you can't hide forever. And she not only had the core enemies still from the bomb. I Massacre.

55:37 Her. But she had gained new enemies as a politician because of her political views. That lower caste Indian citizens deserved rights too. On July 26th 2001. At the age of 37, Three, masked. Gunmen attacked full on outside of her Bungalow and Delhi India. She was hit nine times in the head chest shoulders, and right arm, her personal security guard, did his best returning, fire taking several shots, to the chest and arm as well. He did a good job though because the gunman actually abandoned their car. So he must have shot something on it to make it stop, right? And they got on auto rickshaw and kept going. They had a plan, they had a like, they had a plan, a, and they had a plan B for if the car got destroyed in the process. The police later, recovered Webley & Scott pistol, several improvised like homemade firearms in their car, several revolvers 9, empty rounds and 15 live rounds which proves that the shots came from the car.

56:47 Are you okay? They were hiding within the car to shoot her. She was rushed to the rum manohar, lohia hospital but she was pronounced Dead on Arrival. And the prime suspect was a man by the name of Sher Singh Rana and he did eventually surrender himself to the police. He claimed that this was revenge for the my Massacre and was sentenced to life in prison, August of 2014 which also lets you another cuz member this happened in 2001. Yeah it took 13 years to get him to trial. Oh my God. It was a violent death.

57:31 For a woman whose life was full of violence. Yeah, it almost seems kind of balanced but still very wrong. Now, I'm sad. Yeah, she just she lived in a really ruthless time that called for lawlessness. Yeah. She single-handedly, gave the middle finger to one of the oldest stratification, systems in existence, by herself suffering. Repeatedly in the process, I, it's kind of interesting, like, I was, as I was writing this. I was just thinking about that line from Pulp Fiction that Sam Jackson says, you know, I will strike down upon thee with great Vengeance and Furious anger. Those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers, like flan de Vie. Was that righteous anger and and sometimes Vengeance she really was.

58:19 Oh my God. No, and I think she just improved, she just proved that. Sometimes that is the only way to get things done. Oh my God, I can't pretend to Then I can't even like fathom growing up in a place where a stray dog had more rights than a woman but damn it, if she didn't give it her best shot, the majority of this was researched, what this is based off of the Bandit queen of India and Indian woman's amazing journey from peasant to International legend by phoolan Devi. She marie-therese CUNY and Paul room, Bali and interestingly enough she didn't ever learn how to read which is why she need people to help her write her autobiography but still impressive.

59:13 That's a big Stone, beautiful lengthy but I need his book. Yeah, I was like this is it easy thing to pick up from the library but I'm gonna get me a copy myself to have. Definitely. Yeah like I said because she didn't agree with the movie about her life that came out in the 90s. I don't think I'll be watching that one, right? Yeah, this is just less than anybody from Hollywood. If you are listening, this is the story. I know we have a lot of California listeners so this is the story if you are looking to get your first. Script accepted. This is the one do it again. Bonus.

59:55 The whole cast would have to be from India. So we get inclusivity. Let's please. Oh my God, there's got to be an Indian director. Who wants to make this their first major film? I just, can I just say how much I love? I mean, I said it a few times already what you're telling the story. I fucking love this story. Ended, like I wish you were still alive. We like, hey, let's go. Visit India. No. Oh my God I love. Oh, oh, Brittany. He gave me a gift today. I'd like I said as soon as like as soon as I saw that title, the book I was like, oh remember when I texted you and I just like, I found my person for this week.

1:00:36 I know who I'm talking about and like thing is I only read like The cursory little bubble on the book. Like what I read, I was like, oh this is great cuz I there was nothing where I was like this is wonderful. Awful. Yeah, I love that. Thank you. Thank you very much. Yeah, as a guy, I feel better for knowing about phoolan Devi. Okay. Now I do want to say now that I like I did love that story immensely. Oh my fucking God, I love this story so much. I'm not going to backtrack anything. I said, by the way, I just want to say that to any of the men that are listening. I'm like, I'm not sorry, but if you assault a woman and you expect no consequences to happen to you, Or like you expect me like no repercussions from your actions and you know what, the only downside is that I couldn't find out what happened to the ROM Brothers.

1:01:40 Yeah. Where did y'all go? Because foulon was looking for you. She was ready. She had a bullet with your name on it and she had two boys. By the way, to boys are here, your name is on it as looking. I was like, where did where these two guys go. They just disappeared into the history books but yeah, like like I a bird. 84. What would you say? What would, what would you call this? Like like treating, like treat women? Like they're people. Oh, yeah. Not like they're less than you. Like if you're a man, they were male, whatever. What's the interesting thing is that, we look at a place like India or like rural India, where these things happen or even, you know, 30 years ago, what happened to phoolan Devi?

1:02:26 Like and we, of course, I'm sure there were people who listen to us and they will go well, it's what we live. So, we're so Much better than that. No, the fuck. You're not known. The fuck were not. We're not, we're not. We're count to like, 10 to women. Have been sexually assaulted in America. Women are children. That's how Frampton it is. It's just not. Nobody like I guess it's like it's a thing that's hidden. Yeah, a lot of it is. Yeah. And also it's a thing that's shameful for the person that it happens to you. We're still not in a place where people can be honest about their sexual assaults. Exactly. And it's like, if you bring it up in a court. Oh yeah, you don't remember all this stuff you're obviously lying know. Is it's because I was drugged, okay? Or this other situations.

1:03:13 Like there's been situations that I've been involved in where it was, it could have been that. And no one wants to discuss it. There's trauma related to. Well I'll just be honest because that's kind of where we are. And this is the environment that we've created. I had a friend who I knew from college and I had an apartment in Philadelphia, this was years later and he was a lawyer and he would get drunk sometimes and I had an extra bedroom in my apartment and sometimes my other roommate would be there. One of the girls had moved out and so I had a guy roommate and it was just me and some Times, he wouldn't be there. But either way I would let him use the extra room multiple times. This happened loads of times and then one night, you know, brought a man, he's drunk, let him sleep on that leftover mattress that had been there from our old roommate.

1:04:02 And I looked up and he was standing in my doorway and he was butt naked. Oh no. And he kept trying to climb into my bed with me. And when I was like, whoa! He was just like no, come on, come on. And like I have a very vivid memory of Of me kicking him in the junk in the middle of the dark. And then I also remember saying to him one of us is going to die tonight. If you keep going this route And he stopped and he thought about it and he left, he slammed my door and which I immediately locked it he went back to the other room I guess and got dressed and then he went downstairs and he because I was like a like a walkway down to get to the door, to the apartment slam that door too. And then I ran downstairs and I like lock that door and I put the slide lock on it and I texted some of our mutual friends and I was like he crossed a line, we're not friends anymore, don't talk to me about him, you know. Weird sort of kind of hilarious situation that happened. I got invited to a party that he was going to be at and it was, you know, mutual friends and I just said it's, so I'm so going to be there and my friend was like, yeah. And I was like, yeah, I won't be coming. And she's like, what happened between you two? And I just like he crossed the line, he violated a barrier for me and I just don't want to be around him ever again right now. A lot of people will say, Hey, you know, why didn't you? That was an attempted assault.

1:05:26 And I'm like, What's anybody going to do? Nothing bat nothing actually happened. That's another barrier. We have in the states. No one was going to take that seriously. It was just, you know. Yeah, I'm drunk guy trying to climb in my bed, but here's where his intention was real because he went to that party and my friend being the nosy person that she is, was just like what happened between you and Brittany. And he was just like, oh, what did she say that? I like tried to rape her something and Everyone at the party was like, no, but did you obviously you fucking did. So he very much outed himself to my friend group in that regard and then everybody stop talking to him too. But that let me know that that was the intention. Because in my head, you know, you think about that as somebody who's through a situation like oh maybe he didn't, you know, mean that maybe he was just drunk or whatever. Nah, he knew what he was doing.

1:06:27 Yeah, the whole time. Maybe even before then, maybe that there was a slow plan to slowly work his way up to two what he did. You know what I mean? And so that's But everybody, I know has a story like this so we can't look at any other culture and point fingers and say, they are worse than us everybody. I know has a story like this. Yeah. I'm not saying I'm not saying that India's words there anywhere. No. I'm just saying to the people listening. Please don't. Oh, yeah. No. I'm saying every man in the world or any every, like, every woman in the world, has a story like this. Yeah. So many people of all genders of all. All ages working in education, we do a fair amount of training on child sexual assault and it is very rampant when it with an American society.

1:07:23 I believe the current number is 25 percent of all children before the ages of 18 will be assaulted and that's the lowest. It's been in like 50 years, it used to be worse. It gives me no hope. hope almost no hope for the so this is, this is the world that we live in and we have to make Yeah. And best choices and do the best for ourselves that we can. But in please, this is why I can't feel bad for anybody who's been a victim of any of these sort of things.

1:08:03 If you've watched The Tick-Tock, and you've heard me say that I empathize with Aileen wuornos, that's why? Absolutely? Because I and so many of the people who I know and care about have been in positions like that. I cannot like, I understand that, not all of the people, She killed were rapists, but the first one was, and the other ones were people who were treating her like that one. So it wasn't a short line for them to cross if, you know, if she let them cross that line. Yeah, so yeah, I will always full on DVD Aileen. Wuornos other women who avenged their assaults.

1:08:48 You got my support. Absolutely mine too. Who are you? That's why I love this story. Huh? And it's still women's history month. It is and I'm so glad you did a story from whence it. That's why it's a gift as well. I'm not gonna lie, I love that, love that, love it. Alright, so now, I guess we're getting into my part of the segment. Okay. Well, this week and next week and Hopefully not any longer than that. I'm going to try to keep it down to this these two episodes. Okay?

1:09:39 Because there's a lot I want to talk about but then I'm like I don't know how much I would like to stress is out too. So Mmm. I'll be talking about something that no one asked for, but guess what are you gonna get it? What did no one else all right? Talking about their paranormal investigators. The beautiful couple. And Marine one. I love the read Warren. Yes so much. I was so sad when she finally passed. Yes last year. No no listen, I'm not Atlas it's just it's all about.

1:10:24 It's always been about Lorraine for me by the time. I even learned who she was her husband was already gone, but Yeah, unfortunately, like I started watching go shows and I saw her helping some of the different shows. Yes, using her abilities there. So and then I was like, wait a second, that sounds familiar. And then I realized that I had read The Amityville Horror book since I already knew them, I just didn't make the connection until I was a little older. Okay, okay. Well, I wanted to just talk about Lorraine of course, but You can't talk about one.

1:11:08 This is great. We're talking about the other. I gave you a gift and now you are giving me a gift. Yes. Of my favorite paranormal couple. There we go. So yeah. So you can't talk about one without talking about the other. So I'll be talking about them both in this to two-part. Episode two-part episode, possibly two parts, hopefully not anymore. I'm trying to keep it down into parts. Hmm. So I'm still going to try to focus on Lorraine for the most part of this though. So for these two parts, I'm going to start out by for this first part, what their background, you know, where they started. And then I do a little bit of a touch on, I guess, their research on ghosts and for the next episode I will be covering all not Or cases, but most of their cases, including some other famous ones that they've done Annabelle in Amityville Horror, you know, interval as well, but the real Annabelle. Not the not on the Lorry in the movie. No, not that one.

1:12:21 No, we're not doing Conjuring the country's a real story. Okay. Yeah. Annabelle doll is different from how they portray crack shit? They portrayed Annabelle correctly in the The Conjuring story. It's the Subsequent sequels that have nothing to do with the spin-off sequel. That's okay. So, I'm not talking about that. They don't talk about the fact that it's not the doll in the movie because they couldn't get the rights to put the real doll. Yeah. I mean, actual movie really regularly? Yeah, Raggedy Ann, would not agree, but was it Metallo or one of those companies would not agree to put the dolls in the film. So they had to come up with that ugly. Want to tarnish our name. Pretty much. I mean, you gotta hold it dog, eyes.

1:13:03 I mean, you can't really fight that. Hey, but I'm so here for this. Yes, thank you. You're welcome. No problem. Um, but every second part going to do all their did you see ghosts invent investigations? So I can start design with without mentioning one. One big source for this story. The book I was waiting, like, I guess like a week for the come, right. It was like super delayed. Yes, it was. It's the demonologist. Ah, yeah. Because at is the only non priest demonologist in existence, right?

1:13:43 Yeah. Yeah. He was given permission by the Vatican to continue doing exorcisms. Yeah, even though he was not part of the, he's part of the faith, but he was, Not an official clergyman absolutely. Yes. So this is the demonologist extraordinary career of and Lorraine Warren and article, I did like a touched on this article done by the the AP Associated Press. It's just a test on it like a lightly, but that's about it. So I thought. Yeah, I like to have couldn't can contrasting opinions. Yeah I have I have another source. I just don't know where it's from. It's um, it's basically like a research paper. Someone else did.

1:14:26 Oh that's interesting. So yeah, you didn't go to their a bibliography. I do that sometimes the person that wrote this, when people write little things, I look up their bibliography and then I go to their book. Oh no no no. It's like actual like. Okay so the like a thesis. Yeah so the the name of this I guess it's a whatever you want to call it. It's an internet thing is called 50 years of ghost hunting and research what the warrants. So I'm pretty sure you can look that up on Google and it'll take you right to this page. So the interview is done by Jeff. But anger. Hmm, blinker.

1:15:09 That sounds familiar to. Okay, so there you go. All right, so let's start this little, right? I got for you guys. So Lorraine. Warren Warren Lorraine Rita Morin. She was born in Jane. She was born on January, 31st and 1927. Edward was born on September 7th. 1926, they're both born in Bridgeport, Connecticut. So Lorraine born with the power Clairvoyance, she discovered at an early age that she was different from other children at the age of 12, she found out how different she was.

1:15:56 So on one Arbor Day and and all and she was she was at an all-girls private school, okay. You know, they're planning a sapling and Lorraine. She's like they're planting a sapling, all the other girls like looking and you know as a sapling being planted and Lorraine, she's actually looking up. And the tree. Yes, she's looking up into the sky and one of the I guess the nuns noticed her looking up new like wait, what are you looking at? And she's like looking at this tree right here and there was no trees, there's just a sapling.

1:16:45 So she was a, wait, she's looking at the ghost of a tree. She's looking at the future of the tree. Oh, okay. Yes. Oh, see. I always thought of her as a medium. She is a whole different set of skills. I never realized, she's Clairvoyant. So I mean I guess you call it like it's me this is two separate things. Yeah. I guess I should explain because I guess because on-the-go shows they want her to look into the past. Yeah. But she can see. But yeah. Clairvoyance has the future. Yeah. So she's the ability to see both. Oh goodness. Yeah. I didn't realize. Yeah.

1:17:26 So I wrote this little joke, but never mind. Yeah, numbers like what you looking at kidding rains, like treat. Uh, and it only goes like, Oh the rain. Use future sight like a Pokemon. Oh my God. And Laura Ingalls, super-effective it in a knot goes. Okay. Time. Okay. China which time for you to go. Pray. Yeah. So yeah. So they really assume that something was wrong with her, though. Yeah. Like, if one of your kids told me that I would be like, oh, one of my kids.

1:18:12 This is just pretend time one of my kids. Yes, know if Cassandra told you something like this. Believe her. Yeah. But Cassandra Seas. Beings not a future tree. Okay, if she's owed you something like this believer. Jaden, I'm not too sure about him. He doesn't have the gift. Oh, yeah, at least, hopefully for you to deal with this. I mean, hopefully she doesn't, it doesn't close for her. But, um, so they sent her to a retreat to pray. Oh, the Pokemon away for Lorraine. So yeah, they treat these in her further away for the weekend to pray.

1:19:01 Only a weekend. It wasn't like one of those scary place. No, no, it was retrieved. So wait. So they sent her out into the woods, it was a retreat, you know? Where is that like a, I guess like a Bible Retreat. I'm guessing. Yeah. Those are usually out in the wilderness, okay? And you know locations where bad things have happened out in the wilderness, okay? Okay, so she can see more things. So after she told, you know, the nun this and she When to retreat, she was like, okay I'm gonna keep this stuff to myself now, smart smart girl just so you know, I don't get in trouble anymore. So we're in was even tested at the UCLA to judge her Clairvoyance and it was judged be on average.

1:19:50 So, so have you ever seen Ghostbusters? Yes. The original like the first one. Yeah. Okay. Do you remember like in like the first scene Venkman Z. He's, he's testing these two students for like clairvoyants. Yes, like, okay. And he's like using like a machine. He's using like a. Okay? So what he does is he he's holding up a car to himself and He's asking them, what, what, what do you see behind his card, right? And so I've actually seen that done multiple times on the internet. Oh, really? I just thought they were making fun of they were like doing the movie thing. You probably he's know if that's actually like the way they test Clairvoyance.

1:20:33 That's interesting. So in and then like he would get like a shock to if you got it wrong. And the guy he saw was a guy and a girl. And the guy he like freaks out. He's like, what are you even doing here? Here. He's like, whoa, sir. I'm testing to see if negative negative reinforcement effects clairvoyants and yeah, I was just thinking about that because my head, I'm like the fear of the shot could affect a lot of people to ruin their ability, to answer the questions correctly. Yes, I explained it perfectly because Venkman, but yeah, no, he's my, he's any Bill Murray, come on out, I mean, um, but it's funny that he says this in the guy, I got the card right after being shocked so many times, he just got pissed off and he's like I don't know like a figure eight or something and he's like and make noise like no you gotta wrong. It is awakened.

1:21:28 Figure eight on the card though. He just wanted to mess with the guy because he's in his like this reminds me of something, they were probably do something like this but I think the the test actually it doesn't involve being shocked like Ghostbusters but it does involve you trying to discern. Yeah, yeah, things in another room. Room or situations. I'm pretty sure. That's, yeah, that's how you do it. They did that to her at UCLA. I'm not, I didn't go really into it, but I know they tested her for that. Yeah, cool. Anyway, L rain met at the age of 16. Well, Ed was an usher at a theater in Bridgeport. He had seen the rain.

1:22:09 Oh, do you know the story gone? It's cute. It's cute and only like the way that things in the 40s and 50s were cute if they did this. Now, this is not cute, this is true, but this was cute back then, so he had seen her in her mom. Coming to the, you know, coming to the theater every Wednesday night. You know, Ed started talking to her, they became friends. And what night when he walks her home, he basically just ask her out and I guess you could say it's history from there. Yeah, it would be unheard of. Now that like the guy you randomly buy popcorn from you allow to walk you home from the movie like that would never happen now. But isn't it adorable? I mean, you could be friends with them, you could talk to them nicely and stuff like that, talk to people nicely but I have what I refer to as Real relationships, and people who are doing things for you relationships. So if I take an Uber, I talked to the Uber driver and I'm super nice to them, but as soon as I get out of the car that relationship is over.

1:23:14 Oh my God. You just remind me of that freaking door testing. Oh yeah, that door Josh left. Ya know. That know that I love the food on the front of the dryer in front of the garage. Schnell garage. No, talking about something else. But Oh, you mean that guy who like, called the lady up the next day? I'm like, hey, you've been in my mind? Yeah, exactly. Like, oh my God. No, dude, you just like the man hater episode? I'm I'm not sorry. Anyway, back to talking about our lovely couple. All right. So Ed his childhood was different, so he grew up in a haunted house from the ages of 5 to 12, same house.

1:23:58 Like he started seeing ghosts at the age of five? Oh no, yeah, that's that's when it happens. Yep. So he had a landlady that died in a year later, late at night, he was in, I guess his room, you know, everything is dark and stuff, it's got his closet door, starts opening up and it's always the closet. Why y'all can't leave these children alone? Like, like I told you. That's how you about that. Yes, look how always the closets positing your house. Yes to yes. No, for me, I mean, my story with the closet. Well, you have a closet story to us talking about Cassandra saying that there was somebody in her mother's closet. Grandma died in and it was a room, she died in and, you know, we're we would share that room.

1:24:55 And like Some Nights the closet door, you could hear it just creaking open, nice and slowly. And opening, I just have to imagine that there's just ghosts who are trying to like, figure out their powers and they're just like, I'm gonna get this door open, and they're just trying so hard and it goes Creek and they're like, yes, I'm finally getting my ghost Powers because like, why are they all messing with the doors? I just need my grandma was just messing with us, trying to sleep like the pickles, pick one all of us so that I'm pretty sure that's what she was doing. But, um, so this closet door opens and at first, he sees a ghost orb-like thing, right?

1:25:43 And it starts to slowly like get a human form. Oh, it starts turning into something and it becomes this landlady, who would died a year before. Did she say something? Oh, so no she didn't say anything but tell your mom to fix the pipe. But while she was alive, she wasn't she didn't really like kids. Aw, dang it. So, but she didn't do any time. She just had like aggressively child-free strike again, her resting be face on the whole time that he saw her. Hmm.

1:26:24 And when she was a girl, She had the same face on and so they tell anybody. Yeah, yeah, so he sees her and she looks grumpy, you know, like she always does and she disappears. Hmm. Now he goes and tells his dad, this and is that total never told anybody about it again. So his dad, his dad was a very devout so and it kind of makes sense. This is that how he got more into the church then? Yeah, let me get angry. Church church boy. Um, is Roy and Lorraine. They got married at the age of 6. 18, God. 18 years old. Whoa, he was in the Navy.

1:27:09 Yeah, I thought so. I thought I saw their picture. Yep, they also had a daughter. I think. Yeah, really have a daughter. Well, yeah, they have a daughter and I believed her husband is the one who runs the museum. Now I'm gonna go think the daughter. Does it have anything to do with it? But her husband us because, when that whole Annabelle's, escaped meme happened on the internet last year, he was the one who like had to like make a YouTube video and be like she still here. Yeah, he didn't go anywhere y'all. I don't know where this came from, but Annabelle's where she always is. Sorry, so after World War Two was over, they were actually going to be artists. Oh yeah.

1:27:57 You know, that I did not know that. Was their original location? Yeah, they did this for five years actually. Now I want to look up and see if they did anything good. So they paint it. What did they paint churchy stuff? Go see stuff clothes. Demons won't know. They painted haunted houses. Oh, so go see stuff. Yeah, they were paid on houses. They thought, you know, it'll be relatable. I don't know. Alrighty of their haunted house, paintings, haunted. I don't think so. I'm just think they paint the houses or just catch houses. Um, so this is how we'll go Edward, you know, research houses from the newspaper, he would drag her along and they would, he was SketchUp, the houses heard outside. And then he ended up talking to the people, didn't he? You jumping ahead.

1:28:58 I'm sorry. I just isn't natural like you have to write. Yeah, you to confirm that the house is haunted. So what, what what he would do is the people, the owners of the house, they are, we looking out the windows, like, what are y'all doing? Where is teenagers doing out? Thought of our house, our UK Sinister going on? Are you okay? So right now. So you know, either, And you know, tell them what they're doing and then they would ask for more information about The Haunting. Okay, as I was wondering where were you? I was like they have to confirm the haunting, don't they?

1:29:39 Yeah. so they would, you know, exchange the sketches, they drew for, you know, information about, you know, Haunting in the house and if the haunting was Particularly interesting. They would definitely, they were definitely paint the house. And then, you know, that's a good little write down the story. Probably. Exactly. So they can add it to your collection. So in the beginning ring was basically a skeptic like she had no experience with ghosts or hauntings. Oh, so at this point, she's only experiencing Clairvoyant. Yes. Not medium. No, not not go.

1:30:20 See stuff. Interesting. I That the way that she was by the time, you know, I saw her on TV or, you know, read her stuff that that's how she'd always been. I mean, this is teenager now. So I mean, I can imagine like everything else in life, your abilities, develop and deepen, as you age. Yeah. No. They dig is her Clairvoyance. They get stronger as they were researching houses and, you know, going more in-depth with the ghost stuff in the spirit stuff or, you know, Hauntings. But so she is like listen, I can see the future. I don't know about this ghost thing I enjoy drawing. Yeah. So when does it become real for her? I'm getting to that.

1:31:05 Now, Ed on the other hand, he was down to clown. So to say, like he was, he, he, he's seen a ghost before so he's like, let's get more to this creepy stuff. It's like you or me, it's like if you're in a clairvoyant and I've seen like a ghost Once in my life contact and sci-fi Travel Channel or something. But the problem is I'm far, too scared. Yeah. To be in that environment for very long. I would be the one on the go show who like something would like Creek a book. Did you see that? Like that's me because I'm terrified never mind.

1:31:45 I would be like charging into the darkness time by the things act. I'm not no you're not back. Biggest. Cause I am Aaron. Whoa, I'm not trying to fight the ghost. No, thank you. Well, that's the old Zach. Yeah, exactly, yes. In the beginning he was trying to fight the ghost. You're right. Oh my God. But no, I'd probably be more. The more sensitive plus, it'd be from the original Ghost Hunters. You'd be neck. Yeah. You want to know the answers? Absolutely, definitely. I mean, been my heart. I want to be Katrina from listen the anybody who This is to go stuff, you know, I'm talking about, you know, Katrina. I want to be like Katrina, she's very like Brave. I'm not scared.

1:32:32 I believe in this stuff and I'm scared. Oh my God, you got this, you be good. All right so even before and Lorraine were married he had devoured so much research into the Superman who know Supernatural and you know from his past experience of Course. So he was just he was like okay I kind of got like basic you know, knowledge of this so I'm down to like give you some answers. If the people at the houses wanted to, oh so they're like listen, you're right. This place is haunted and he's like, let me help you with that.

1:33:12 Exactly. Have you heard of sage? Do you know what assault ring is? My God cannot just salt another sorting tonight. All right, so later on down the line, Lorraine did become more convinced, you know, of presence of, you know, super fun fact. This apartment has been staged also and holy watered. We hit both both sides of my family's religious beliefs. There you go. We've just sees her house multiple times. Got you. So, of course, who's people's, you know, who's people whose houses, they, they paint it, they wanted to know, you know, the cause of The Haunting, or more importantly, how does a Spirit manifest where does the Spirit come from?

1:34:03 So that's the Like million-dollar question, isn't it? Yes, we're you spirits? Come from where, how do they manifest? So there's like in the book there's there's a bit of a rundown of, you know, of belief system on the of Earthbound, spirits of, you know, how they believe, Earthbound Spirits like manifest. It sounds so Earthbound. Spirits usually use a human presence to manifest They actually need that ties very much into the Poltergeist Theory. Yeah, so another way to can manifest, is the energy in the atmosphere, which is like pretty badass, like this is water. Yeah.

1:34:47 Certain stones. That like the thing water, whether anything that's going on like nature, they can manifest through nature and that's awesome. I love it. Oh my God. And of course, the way they way that, you know, Spirits look the way they actually manifest their bodies. It depends on how the spirit wants to project themselves or how they see themselves. I'm glad that you said that there's one other medium that I watch her show who says the same thing. Yeah, a lot of people are like, it also makes me think about what we talked about last week with a trial, the witch trials in Scotland and that At that particular woman. The witch or she wasn't really a witch, but you know what I mean? She was killed.

1:35:37 She presents herself the way she died. Yeah, exactly. So that's an interesting choice as to why she does that. And that was, oh my God. I forget what story I was telling you about. That was Scotland. Yeah, no, not last week. It was a couple weeks. I had it at about a woman in white, right? And is old rectory well because we kept because I brought up the question. Like why don't, why are there so many women and white? Yeah, it was a loser Valentine's Day. That's what it was. Hey, and she was naked girls, right? You she was trying to seduce the priest, right issues? She was reliving her happy as moment or when I her happy, you know. I've happiest moment of her life but yeah, and her name is Amy from the TV show. The Dead Files of forget her last name, but her name is Amy. Okay, but she also routinely says, like the way when she's talking about like the spirits of, she's like he's showing himself to me in this way.

1:36:31 I Don't think this is who he really is, but this is how he's presenting himself to me, which is an interesting thought process, because I figure if your ethereal on that way, why would you choose to look a certain way? I'd be like, I'm a dragon. Someone some K would be. Like, there's definitely a dragon that flies around my bedroom like four times a night and the, the medium would come into the house and be like, so she's not a dragon, she just really likes that body. She's like an old lady. Who just died here? Oh my God, she's harmless to your child. She in fact, really likes your kid and that's why she's hanging out there. Yeah. I mean, that would be me as it goes. That is you as a ghost.

1:37:15 Oh my God. Not vengeful at all. No, I would definitely be creepy because I want to scare kids. What what? Why? Because fun. So, in the book, Ed goes deep, Deeper on where one would encounter a ghost. Okay. Like old houses or farmhouses places of History? Yeah, it didn't mention. Places that were like, you know, during WWII or stuff like that, where they were built like on the shoreline houses built on the shoreline for some reason, that's a thing.

1:38:00 Hmm, that was a thing and I'd be interested in reading that part from him. Yeah. So like I mentioned in episode 1, episode 2 and I think whatever episode. I talk about Letta Letta the Gypsy doll. Oh right? Ghosts can also be attached to objects. Absolutely, so and also goes into detail and talks a lot in this book. Let me just I'm just gonna book is called demonologist and which is his heir. Area of expertise. Let me just tell you. He everything is a quote by him not this.

1:38:43 No at all. I'm just saying. He talks a lot. Anyway, So it goes into detail about how he Lorraine received some parts from Flight 401. It's a jetliner that crash and Everglades. Hmm. So apparently as soon as the rain touch the piece that they were, they received, she sold at the I guess the spirit Apparition of the flight engineer on that plane and multiple people like throughout. However, Only had this piece they would comment and say that there's a guy and like a trench coat pacing out in front of y'all houses. And so I'm referring to your house just walking back and forth and as soon as we get close to him, he disappears. And they're like, huh?

1:39:37 That's strange? Okay. So Poor dude, probably feels guilty, so I doubt it. Um, so and Lorraine. Do you finally notice that this guy is the same person that Lorraine saw when she touched the piece of the plane. So, there it comes to the conclusion. That the reason why he's pacing in waiting outside. The, in front of the house is because some of his relatives are coming to meet with Ellen rain for like I Is a consultation or meeting, right? Right. And, you know, he wanted to commune with them. So he was waiting to be able to talk to her relatives. And yeah, I was like, oh my God.

1:40:25 Huh. Awesome. This is great. I wish I could see ghosts. Not really? Yeah, I was gonna say no not really don't. Oh my goodness. So either way it goes in goes on to talk more about ghosts and their Natures I guess you could say. They do go into a lot of little bit from this one, too. Like it's just like the the second chapter in the book. Oh wow, yeah, so like this is our backstory zooming into the ghost stuff now. Yeah yeah.

1:41:09 Now Lorraine back to Lorraine. Now. The Staple in any good ghost. A bit investigation is a medium or Clairvoyant, right? For one, they can actually see what's going on Nick and I should see if there's a spirit there. And 42. Spirits are naturally drawn to mediums clairvoyants, and if you're a physical medium they experience what the ghost is trying to express to them. So I've heard the lady from the show, I like, Amy talked about how the life expectancy for physical mediums is actually lower.

1:42:00 Oh, so you can be a kind of medium who just like here stuff but like she feels like so when there, Trying to tell her like somebody stabbed me, she is experiencing that moment and that person's life. And so that's a lot of pain and Trauma to take in it yourself. Absolutely. Now I lost my place so was the rain like that or was she more of a head media? I think she was more the mental. Tokay, that's good. Because she did love a nice long life. Yeah. I'd hate to think that she sport like William years. Yeah. Oh my God, just experiencing the terrible things that happen to people that's awful.

1:42:43 Yeah. So yeah. So this is what Lorraine did when they investigate houses, they would, you know, she basically like see if there was a spirit, she could feel there was one there. Okay, and you'll draw it out if she could. And they also say that she used mental telepathy. Yeah, it makes sense to communicate with Spirits as well. So, apparently Spirits, find this the easiest way to communicate, right? If they're, I guess an intelligent Aunt ghost or Spirit, right? Because we have residual hauntings. Yes the thing. Yes, exactly. Sorry, nothing.

1:43:26 Okay. So as I mentioned before, the warrant would go to houses where you know, there were reports of activity happening, you know, just a small stuff, they'd see goes here goes there, blah blah, nothing big, nothing, bad um-hmm. But there were times when they would be called to a house and actually be of the spirit would be a tad bit more active. Is it that it wasn't actually a spirit. Okay, so they refer okay. So in the book, they referred to spirits and ghosts as two separate things. So what oh, you gotta ghost, which is just, you know, just I guess resembling that of a, yeah, human person. And then you have a spirit, which is actual like a I guess not physical manifestation, but like a no manifestation of something.

1:44:28 Well then, what does he think of about? I mean, he is the book is called demonology, right? What does he think of? Non-human entities then getting there. Okay, I just now I'm just intrigued by his like, his perspective on this. I'm right, right, right. Okay, so let me see. Where was I at? Oh yeah, and you did the things will be, you know, more active in the occupants would be going out of their minds, you know, maybe they'd be terrified. Hmm. And like Durant during these times, people didn't fully understand what was happening or not really surprised by that or or or you didn't know.

1:45:18 I mean can you imagine like every time like you're some like middle-aged housewife in like the really nice area of Connecticut, right? And whenever Were you wake up at 327? And you're like, I'm really thirsty and you go downstairs to get a drink of water, all of the drawers in your kitchen are open. And you're just like, I'm just gonna close these and get my watch. You don't like, what's your frame of understanding for this. Like, why does this happen every day at 3:00 in the morning? Oh my God. I mean I have his at my house too, but it's only because my roommate is a child. No.

1:46:04 Oh you mean your other roommate? I think you're talking about the kids. Just go down to the kitchen and grab stuff. No, she likes to lead the cabinet's open. Oh, if not shut them. Ugly room and walk downstairs. You're like, is this a go? Yes, all the time to. I do it all the time. No, I'm like, why are all the cabinet's open? Is there a ghost of the here now? Oh no. The was in her closet. And yeah, it's closet. So before I get any further into this, I'm going to just run back a little bit, okay? And say That. Ghost activity or spiritual activity, it doesn't happen for everybody, right?

1:46:47 So like if a ghost is actually, you know, haunting a house, one person could experience at haunting, but another person could not experience at home. I agree with you and it's usually based on the person that the haunting is happening to so, say if A ghost they committed you know s word and this person as being haunted is going through some depression or you know, suicidal thoughts. And they're not just going through a rough time in her life, this spill, it would probably like latch onto them and it'll be more able to show themselves to this person. Sorry, that just makes me think about a thing that happened to me.

1:47:39 Oh goodness. And I don't understand why, because it happened immediately after I visited a prison, maybe you're going to jail. I have never been to prison darling. So you said you've been to the jail, I guess, Eastern State, Penitentiary, you're going to a jail. Who's kidding? I just ask. That makes me interested in that situation. A weird thing happened there and when I got home, hmm, I also then said you can go home now. You can go back soon. Last one to you. They want it. They're like oh no. You see you, I liked you for some reason. Let me follow you for all that you can you can go home now. No, thanks. And then nothing else happened after that and they went home. I guess they're like huh, I guess she doesn't want me around.

1:48:25 Okay, fine. I'll go. All right. Hmm. so, oh, where is it going with this? Oh yeah, people. So they attach to people for different reasons. Yeah. So people you know, they didn't know what was happening and they really didn't know Who they're going to call. And in the rain, when there is something strange in your neighborhood and in the rain, well, there's the Visible man sleeping in their bed and the rain Ghostbusters. What do they have a name for the little organization? A created was that called?

1:49:09 I didn't say the book, I they had some sort of a little organization that they created and would help people who would help them with their investigations. I Forget what it's called. Oh my goodness. Maybe it's in the second half of the book. Yeah. So some may I want to go so deep in there. So I'm going to try my best to make it like just two episodes because goodness anyway, sometimes they we get, you know, they would they would be Spirits, you know, or goes And other times, it would be a little bit more. I'd say, maybe on a demonic side, a little bit, so people living here, they would end up, you know, people living in these houses.

1:49:53 That would, you know, end up having activity, that was going wild. Well, the general consensus when it's demonic is not that the thing is latching onto you because you're going through a hard time. Oh, no. It's latching onto you because it wants you. Yeah. Oh no. Before when I was singing the last one to you at that's a spirit, talking about Spirit, okay? Like when you're in a haunted house and actual like haunted house, not a demonic house. No no. Yeah. Like the the difference there is very yeah, like it would say it was a demon. You won't know it's a demon beginning though. I mean they're stages, there are stages I think is like three different stages.

1:50:36 Oppression is a good, there's oppression something else and then possession. I got two chapters whole one is like the build-up to So it's infestation. Here we go, infestation, oppression and possession. And yes infestation is when all the weird crap happens yes oppression is when it just seems like there's no other way out. Yeah, some people cave to it and go find whatever. Take what you want, other people try and fight it. Bring people and help them and then possession is the point of almost no return. Almost, yes. As you seen too many Exorcist movies but yeah, people who live in these types of houses end up being Ugly, mentally attacked by whatever is there? They would be worn the fuck down from the activity going on. And that's that's what they call like oppression that that factor.

1:51:37 They wear you down. So types of spirits that would cause these types of disturbances or like, owner, whole nother level, do I even want to know their names? Their just, let's just the demons. Okay, good. I was like, please don't get into other names. No, no, it's like it fix it. I'm not really sorry. No, these are just demonic Spirit interesting. Lee enough for fifth or one aspect of the Paranormal, that I am truly afraid of. Okay, you can call these demonic or in, Humans beer. Yeah, I would say it's the human Spirits. I'm like, you know what if I see like hey Cal, what's up buddy? Like walking through my apartment like, whatever or like one night, I opened my door and I just see some random ghosts walk by like, that's a person. Like, that's a person that had human experiences at some point. Something that's not human at all. Like I said, I watch a lot of different shows and like that lady from Dead Files.

1:52:35 Amy has described so many different things that are in human. Seem like outrageous. Like, at one point, this one family was talking about this being that they saw that was taller than their house. No, I'm like this. Huge like black shape that they saw and she was definitely like, it's something indigenous and it's a part of the land and it's older than anything else. She's like, leave. Yeah, I gotta go shoot like, Like, when she talks about those sort of things, that's when I get like, and the thing that really creeps me out about that show is that she will have a sketch artist draw up the things that she see my God. And they'll be the most bizarre pictures you've ever seen. It's not like a sketch artist drawing. It's like ghost writing or whatever the heck you call her. It's it's it's like a ghostly looking thing. Yeah, sometimes it's a thing standing over their bed with its hand inside of the person.

1:53:36 That is bothering stuff like that really creepy things. So I'm like The stuff that is in human is where my actual level of fright happens. Okay, don't like people. Um, so these are different from your run-of-the-mill goes for one goes, natural scary. Yeah. Amigos can be scary to people to sing a dead person, float around. Come on now. So ghost, naturally manifest that any time of the day. Now, these other Spirits the witching hour they appear in, I guess the lack of natural light. So if you're living in like a house, that doesn't get a lot of light, or sun, which interestingly enough. Sometimes those houses even with the sun, shining through the windows, just seemed a little darker. Yeah, I wonder why because of what's? Yeah.

1:54:39 Um, so, These spirits that manifest that you guys see manifest as like at first they manifest as a black being like not a bad person but like no. I know what you mean? Okay. Very dark. Dark being Shadow. Yes, people. Yes. And something else I read is that these spirits they feed off of your fear is like the more, you're afraid the stronger, they get the more like the activity attentive eyes and after that it's hmm the van so they didn't notice that a terrible smell would Accompany these Spirits when they manifested. So sulfur.

1:55:31 It would be sulfur. Nice or Rotting Flesh. Oh, or I'll know that smell or I don't know. That smell to know that the I'm smelling it or excrement. I know that smell though. Okay, so you got two out of three, you get your choice. How do you? How does Ed know what? Rotting Flesh mouth. I don't know, I guess you can speculate what you know, running flesh would probably smell like So it's gonna smell like poop farts or some unknown thing. We don't know what it smells like yet. There you go. Alrighty, then something dying. There you go.

1:56:12 So the Warrens would sense, the presence of hatred when they like, right? Yeah. I'm gonna count the spirits. And most of the times, when they were called to these houses that were experiencing this, everything was And Haywire. Everything was already altar rails. It was a house in chaos. Kind of like the way that it worked in The Conjuring. Absolutely by the time that lady tract and in the rain down yeah it was all right wasn't the family. Like everyone was sleeping in the living room and they had to like lockley had to like wrap all of the door handles or as they would fly open. Yeah yeah.

1:56:53 Like by the time they called it and Lorraine at that point it was bad. It's going off sideways. It was bad. So they count as fears, that were very vulgar. Hmm. They would say not nice things. Yeah, and not least ways. They could like, you could actually hear them speaking to me. Like, they can actually hear him speaking to them about things. Oh, and Miss, believe these Spirits made himself known. Of course, leaving upside down crosses and writing. Backward messages in mirrors in the book. It's I don't remember what page, but I bet you, I can flip to it real quick.

1:57:43 That looks like. Looks like you read the crap out of it. Anyway, on this page, you can see it. There's a like on this page and the word written backwards. It says demonic and underneath of it, they would like it even be bold enough to write deaf to God. Hmm. So Also not just otherworldly, but specifically mad at Jesus. Yeah, yeah. And yes, maybe I read that book. I don't know. Whatever doesn't matter. No, listen it just you, you. Oh my goodness. All right. And, oh, I left the best part for last. So, these Spirits would even leave. How is a bodily waste to be found? Wait wait wait wait wait how I don't know. So it will either be excrement or urine or even when they like manifest it they would be like he's our blood stain or some type of like bodily fluid where they manifested that. Oh I hate it.

1:58:51 No sir but I like listen Ghostbusters is like ectoplasm how gross is that you imagine like you're just listen I've walked through the house and accidentally stepped on a cat turd because someone didn't like clean the I can't imagine walking through your house and you step on our people turd, but it's a people turd from a ghost because you're in a house full of adults, right? You're like, where did this poop come from? And everybody else is like we don't know. It was two ghosts or the spirit or the didn't, I don't know why that's more offensive to me.

1:59:32 Like, I knew you would be upset by that. That's my rule is offensive part of this. That's why I wrote it last like Infestation. Okay, banging on pots and pans. Just being rude, waking you up in the middle of the night, but leaving behind See. And I get it, your demonic lose whatever. Oh my, it's just really offensive to me. Yeah, welcome to the house. CP pile. I'd be upset. That's the like the lease bothersome out of all of us will be upset. Yo, but how freaked out would you be? If you're like, you wake up one night or you come home from work one night, you walk into the kitchen, there's just a blood stain in the middle of the floor.

2:00:15 You go upstairs, you're freaking out for you. Go upstairs, you Ooh, check the children. None of them have any Cuts or wounds you knock on your roommates door. Did you cut yourself in the kitchen or something? She's like, nah, you're just like, where did this Blood come from? It's just a nice little round circle in the middle of the kitchen. Please don't go home after this. I can tell a good story though. Cabin. God like that's like that's alarming. Yeah. So indeed these weren't human Spirits. They were dealing with These were so these are where their biggest cases. Come on. Yes. Absolutely. These kinds of cases.

2:00:57 These kinds of cases where the biggest cases, I think. Yeah. And evil was demonic. Annabelle is hasn't a demonic attachment. Yeah. Conjuring was a demonic entity. Yep. Well, I believe the Condor was a demonic entity that was linked to someone who was Conjuring the occult at her home yet like and invited things in that then proceeded to like attached to other people who did harm on the same property. Yeah this reminds me that's why it's called The Conjuring. I believe the the woman who live there, who was the bad year, woman was doing what they threatened women within the past.

2:01:43 Like, we talked about last episode witchcraft, she was actually, you know, trying to conjure real stuff. Yeah. Now, Like that little more than she bargained for. Yeah, this kind of stuff reminds me of that movie. The Haunting in Connecticut, that was a good one. I like that one too. When they held seances at this house at a house that was a morgue at once to I think you know I once was well okay my childhood church at one point we bought a building and it used to be a morgue. Mmm, never experienced anything there though. You know, one part I like in the book is that they mention that Houdini, but who's the other one? The other magician, this is Richard Price, hey, your price Harry Price, Right?

2:02:39 Harry price. Oh, Harry price, you remember Harry price? Um, okay, have you ever seen I guess Michael Jackson's Thriller. Mmm, he does the voice in that 10 and then Harry price was in front of, you know, he's another one who was into exposing. Yeah, absolutely medium. And he also was loads of box. Yeah, he was a writer, he was in a lot of shows to and I beg I rarely specifically remember him. I'm being a character in the Scooby Doo. Oh, really at one time. Like this new Scooby-Doo movies or whatever. The heck they called, it was Scrappy. And it was, it's funny because it was Scrappy Daphne Scooby, and I think Shaggy was in it too with a hairy price and he just go investigating stuff.

2:03:34 No, Fred no Velma. Oh, here's the thing. So did he connect with that? I believe he did. And I know they mentioned him once and I would Love like really Mill. His / know his look? I'm going into Harry price and when Houdini he eventually, like down the road. Oh yeah, I'm going to start talking talk about those because I just find that era. Quite hilarious. I just think it's great that Harry Houdini was like I'm gonna do tricks and Somebody like some medium was like, yes, I know your mother and he got so mad that he devoted like the next 20 years to exposing fake mediums because one of them tried to like profit off of his leg mother dying. And from that point on, like that is just some serious outrage.

2:04:34 He was mad. He, he's one of those cases where your Thrive out of spite. Yup. That satisfied. He was like, how dare you try and use my own mother against me. He is mad. So okay. And then I don't write too much after us. So the Warrens, they would do their best to stay away from, you know, these kind of cases demonic cases because they were new and they didn't know that much about them but they did, you know, they did still do like research about it. Hmm. And these entities are actually what I will be talking about next week on part two, huh?

2:05:20 That's gonna be I'll have to find another positive person or, you know, person to make us happy next week because I told you that's the only stuff that makes me gives me the Spooks. I'm going to be going into the demons dance. Some Things. And some never, anybody says demons I think about buzz feed themselves and I think about Shane Verde with his glasses. Hey demons. It's me, your boy, that's like the best quote from that entire like eight seasons. They have of making stuff.

2:06:01 It's me your boy. Oh my God. You know, that's what a great like that's a great series to skeptic and a Believer. Yeah. I'm pretty, I'm pretty still on the fence of I mean I believe I don't believe pretty anyway. I believe I believe I on the way here I actually like coincidentally a was talking about demons in the scientific community community. Oh my God, I cannot talk and how I guess there's different types of demons but they're not that different. Yeah, so it's a different type of demon that sign. Just like refer to I'm interested in this.

2:06:43 Yeah, I'm literally gonna google NPR demon please done. It was on this morning and it came on tonight too because they were eventually replaced up. It's almost that's right. I was sort of Divine Providence. Yeah, that's right. Listen to NPR fight me. But yeah, I was just like demons and Scientific Technology and how it helps somehow, but yeah. Um, but that's all I have for this week. Sorry. Leave you guys hanging. I could talk about more but I'm going to leave it there. Yeah, we already had a two-hour Mark. Are you serious? Yes, we did. My God, this was rambling. Talking about other stuff. That's all right. That's what the people are here for you. Oh my God.

2:07:25 But yeah, thanks so much for listening. As usual. Yes. If you happen to list all the listen to all the way here, you might as well drop a review for us on Apple podcasts because obviously you are one of the real. Deal hardcore followers of this content. If you've made it to the 2:00 hour and five minute Mark, I do apologize for talking so much. But yeah, we that rating review. What else if you want to send us a voicemail. You great. You do that. Anchor dot f m / when Killers get caught. Soon as you go on, the main page will be a little chat box. You can click that and leave us a voicemail. Yep. And you can also send emails at podcast at gmail.com. Absolutely.

2:08:10 You can find Miss Brittany on Tick-Tock. Always it caught podcast. I'm going to try and get Brian on there with me. Yeah. And if you would like to hear more of us talking to each other Brian streams on Twitch, I foxy trainer and I give delightful commentary while he plays games. Yes, I'm currently playing on Maury. I'm not sure how long this game is but yeah, it's going on. Towers in, ya know, right? I just met Pluto. And our food, our wants is to be free to travel how he wants to the universe.

2:08:50 That such a touching story, my God, but thanks so much for listening. I hope wherever you happen to be this has brought you some Joy. Yes. And if you hated it, I'm sorry. That's true. Have a good night wherever you are in the world or good day. Yes, bye. Bye. Bye.