Candy Crimes and Halloween Treats from Yesteryear

0:30 Everybody in serial killer country. My name is Brittany. Ransom, and my name is Brian Joiner. And this is when Killers get caught a podcast of what at the Deep dives into the Killer's. We love to learn about. Usually every week, Brian, I discussed is your group of stories that resonated with us and then I will lead you down the dark path of learning about who a killer was, how they grew up, how they killed. And most importantly how they got caught and Brian ends our podcast with a segment about the Paranormal, something about Cryptids or just the creepier side. And If we want to say thank you so much for listening and thank you to all the people who have been asking non-stop, when's the next podcast coming out because we've had a busy month.

1:10 I think we're both pretty much started. New jobs, I got sick. I still sound sick. So you get what? You get and you don't get upset. As I tell the four-year-olds and my class. Yeah, this was the moving months for me, right? Yeah. And then you moved Yeah, I got both a booster and a flu shot, one weekend and I was just like, I can't do anything, but thank you so much. The people who listen, we really appreciate you and this week in True Crime. Something really wonderful happened. Brian yesterday. Are you ready? Let's go.

1:53 They've arrested somebody for the Delphi murder case in Indiana. What? Yep, it's been five years. I almost cried when I saw it. Like this is the case that I've been following for a long time. Now, here's the thing, they weren't trying to release the man's name until tomorrow or no Monday. So October 31st but apparently people got that information and there. Release the photo as of today, but of people who don't know what I'm talking about. On February, 13, 2017, family. Dropped off these two girls at What's called the money and high bridge in like Delphi in Indiana. And the to gum girls were Liberty. And gosh why can't I remember her name? I'm staring at her face right now. Abby, Williams and Liberty German. Yeah, and This it's weird to people who probably aren't from the area, but this path takes you across this bridge that used to be like for trains.

3:01 But now people just walk on it. And while the two girls were having their, you know, fun thing, they were taken Snapchat pictures. And at one point, a b definitely noticed that someone was following them and she took a video on Snapchat of the And that's the only images we've ever had and we heard him say down the hill so that's why they called it like the down the hill murder for a little bit of time and so when they went to pick up the girls, they were nowhere to be found. They called Libby cell phone. It went unanswered. Eventually, it went straight to voicemail which meant somebody turned it off or they let it just died, the family started searching.

3:49 And then by late that afternoon, they contacted the Sheriff's Department. Apartment Sheriff lesson. Be pretty much was the one in charge here and originally you know generally it's weird because for most part we don't want to, they don't want to do missing persons cases, until the person has been missing for 24 hours, but in terms of children's, missing or abduction cases the kids normally dead within the 24 hour window The police were like, maybe they got lost, maybe they moved to a different Trail and they couldn't find their way back their phones died.

4:31 The community didn't care. They went out looking that night, the sun went down, the temperatures got very, very low or member. It's winter and Tennis like, this area of the country gets very, very cold. Like, right now. We are getting weird like 70 degrees. Days, 20 degree nights. It's very, very cold and it's not even winter yet right now. So February, we're talking about 0 degree, temps or less. So they're like, you know, they searched well into the night and then February 14th. Both the girls bodies were found about a mile away from the trail.

5:18 The man whose property it was is no longer alive. But there was some some interesting details about that. Like, apparently they learned that he loved, he lied about where he was the day. They went missing. So that was really suspicious. There haven't released a whole lot of evidence are the things that they've been looking up because they don't want to It's a weird situation happens in these cases that get picked up and become nationally known because you don't want to give too much information, right? And accidentally, tell your killer what, you know.

6:01 Yep, that's it. But what they did, eventually release was the video. What they built and based on the time of death and the cold and whatnot that video was taken. Very close to when Libby died. So ultimately that video was moments before Batman attacked them. So okay, my question is, is it the man that was in the video? Then that said, down to Hill. Yes. Yes. Okay. They heard him say was guys down the hill and they got two sketches from people who were also on the trail that day.

6:48 And they release these like to kind of grainy photos that they tried to what's the word magnify and that's all we had and it's a white guy, wearing blue jeans, blue coat jacket or hoodie and they immediately listed this guy as a person of interest they didn't they release the audio clips, think about two weeks later About in April of that year, they released the video clip, they release the sketches about five months into the investigation. They were able to pinpoint.

7:31 That there was a unknown vehicle that was through the area, but regardless, I'm just going to say his name because there's going to be a Public event on Monday where they give more information about how they got this guy, but his name is Richard Allen. He has a history of violent offenses. People found people have been doing the work ever since. His name has been released, they pulled up Vine link, which contained two entries for a Richie Matthew Allen Way, do not know the charges yet. We do know that he was in court on Friday October 28th, unfortunately, because the local sheriff's don't want to release everything yet. There is rampant speculation going online right now, but I will be watching or I will keep up with it and I'll probably watch the it's not an event but you don't, I mean it's going to be a pulled the police talking to the media on Monday. So I intend to watch it.

8:41 Yeah, I just remember another thing is that delphi's? A small town like a 3,000 people. So that was another reason why this was like, how do we not know where this who this guy is exactly. Like the always been there should have noticed him from the freaking video. They took her home but the the sketch yeah it feels solid. The only difference between what he looks like now and that is that his face is a little wider now that he gained some weight but otherwise it looks right. There was another guy that they looked into in 2019, but that ended up not and tips have been coming from around the entire country for the last five years. So I'm really just, I really hope this goes the right way. I know that their family needs the closure from this, you know, Libby and Abby's family needs.

9:34 It would probably feel good to finally have everything closed and the person who hurt you Jim Behind Bars. Absolutely. I just like, I remember when we were talking about this, like, the first time and it was brought up, and I was just like, it was so freaking scary. Like the video that was posted. So scary. Like got this one guy. Just creepily following you and he's like, says something to you and it just chills are. It's chose again. I'm just glad like they arrested somebody for it and hopefully this is the right person that did it and hopefully Justice is served.

10:22 So for this week for me, so Brittany. So you work with small children, right solutely? I do okay. So I know you heard of this already but Take care workers, who decided to? Scare the crap out of children. Yeah at work. Okay. Look into it much because I like what I actually saw was I don't know if you know her Kita rose on Tick-Tock but she talked about it and how those people should be in jail and that was like, oh what happened?

11:05 Well, she's right. Goodness gracious, I'm sorry. Frog in his throat, they have been charged with multiple felonies. Wow. Yeah, so it's for women in a casing there's that are facing three counts of felony, child, abuse for this little prank, they pulled. So anyway, doesn't know there's this video going around daycare worker. She's wearing this Halloween mask gets all up in his little kids face. It scares the crap out of her and actually not even her. Like, just like multiple little kids in the video and it's just, no, I never watched a video.

11:54 So I'm going to look it up now. Yeah. And now says X daycare worker. Oh my God, that's a horrible math, right? I don't like. When I first started like the screenshot of it, I thought it was like a scream mask, but no. No it's not scary. Mask. Looks like one of those like scary Japanese people but you know what I mean? The scary Japanese ghosts. Yes yes. Yeah, these kids were about like three or four years old so you know they were losing their shit also judging by how little the kids look. They look like they're about to so they are. I work with the threes and fours. Pre-K.

12:40 Oh so you think it's younger? These look younger than the kids that I deal with these look very young like toddlers. All poor babies, right? Yeah. So my brother was the first one, right, right? Oh my gosh. So my brother was the first one who brought this to me. And I was like, I got to look this up because it's like, of course, it's October, so spooky season. I and people, I don't know what they were thinking with, like, trying to scare little kids Special to his horror mask like, no, no, absolutely not. But it's happening in Mississippi and they Facing possible prison time. So now, how many people were involved in it? Was it just the lady in the video? No.

13:31 They also bringing in the lady who filmed it and posted it. It's saying for women, okay, that are involved in this. I don't see all their names. I see three of the never mind. I got Wait, no. I'm seeing five now. Hold on a second. But as our first names, you got mccandles. Yet Kilbourne Newman, Shelton and Hudson. So they're apparently five women for women. Yeah, it sounds like the entire staff. Yeah. For women are facing three counts of your child abuse.

14:13 And I'm not sure what's going on with the the other extra woman in here. But yes, I just looked at it TMZ said, two-year-olds. Yep. I was right? They looked because I just like the tiny tiny tables. Yeah. It's wild. The one lady guess, her name is Caitlin Johnson, her two-year-old was in the video, and she talked to TMZ Oh yeah, I'm looking at mug shots yep. All five of them. Yep, I guess one is facing misdemeanor. Charges failure to report the abuse. And I guess, simple, simple assault. So yeah, the mom says she's not even considering filing a lawsuit because she thinks they won't ever get hired again, and they won't be able to pay the damages. Absolutely not.

15:05 Oh my God. So terrible like that. It's one thing to, you know, like okay for Halloween for like, trick-or-treat around our area. It's Hollow trigger tree is Halloween, so write us here too. Yeah, I was, I was like, you know, what would be funny and cool for me to do was like, you know, how people like dress up as like a scarecrow or something to sit out on the porch and just have like, a candy Bowl in her lap waiting for kids to come, try to grab some and then you just write girlfriends from like--'cause. I remember that? And you could like, just sit up. And that's enough to scare them but just, like going around screaming at the kids and apparently, the mom on TMZ I like I saw a little I clicked away from my just now, but she said that her son was like potty-trained and now he's not my God.

15:53 No, it's not like sleeping through the night and I'm like you just undid months of hard work, this kids now afraid to live, oh my God. Yeah they definitely traumatized those children. Yeah. Yeah. It's weird. I don't know why anybody thought that was okay. Yeah but they're right though they probably won't ever be allowed to work in child care. After I can absolutely not and hopefully they do see some Type some jail time. Yeah. Because that's unacceptable. Yeah, that's what I got. Well, now to the main event I'm not going to be talking about One killer today.

16:35 Well, technically, I guess I'm going to be talking about one killer in the midst of the total story, but this is more than likely going to go up on Halloween. And so, I have been very interested lately in the conversation around candy and murder. And well, if you're listening and you're probably a millennial or Gen X, I'm sure your parents were like, we gotta wait to eat our candy until we can get home and change. Kit, or some variation of that. When we were young, Because when I grew up, we grew up with the fear that someone was going to poison or put razor blades or drugs or broken glass in your candy and now in like 20 22, people are just openly mocking this. Like I've seen dozens of posts on my timeline with people showing like, actually, that it was a really great one that somebody found they posted a peek. You're like a Snickers that was broken and then in it was a piece of paper that said we've been trying to contact you about your extended car warranty.

17:51 You know right now in our modern era, this is just kind of comical because there are a couple things that people know, one drugs are expensive and nobody's given those out for free. And but there's some some very real Real life situations that happened and we're going to talk about some of those today and essentially how what started as an urban legend based on the teeniest tiniest amount of Truth, turned into massive Hysteria. Because I remember like the police posting booby-trapped candy halls, and they would be like, they would have like, on the Nightly News, like a whole table full of candy with stuff, and in my head, I'm like, did y'all just make this up?

18:45 They had to love because our just lying. Because every year brought more reports, but nobody ever died. So, of course, the question was, why in the world because at the height of the mass hysteria like sixty percent of parents believed that carrot like their kids were going to get hurt by candy. So why do we think this, right? Well, the first one that I could really find that I had a lot of information about what even a lot of information. It was a small blurb. A newspaper in California, was a dentist who gave out candy coated laxatives to trick-or-treaters in 1959 and of course he did that because he was trying to teach them a lesson.

19:37 And he was charged with outrage of public decency and the unlawful dispensing of drugs. He's only poisonous like it's like poisoning to yeah I mean you eat a piece of candy and then you feel terrible. Also laxatives sometimes do a number on people's systems. So the next big one happens in Long Island, New York, it's Halloween 1964. This takes place at the home of housewife Alan fail, Helen fail and it's literally PF e IL. So I don't know if I'm saying, it's feel or fail, but I think fail is funny because she did fail in this situation. Helen was giving out candy on Salem Ridge Road and two young. Teens Ali Stroker and her sister Irene. And another school friend stopped at Helens house, to get candy and Helen kind of tease them. And was like, aren't you a little old to be trick-or-treating?

20:34 Then, you know, but Helen was a mom herself to a teenager and it seem like harmless ribbing. And she dropped like, a handful of what looked like candy into the teens pillowcases. They all went back to the Drucker, residence. And when they opened the bag, they found these weird napkins like they were like tied. Like a napkin was tied around it, and it was the looked like a bottle cap that had the poison symbol on the bottom of it. Those are called Aunt button. Ins and they are actually a poison that you sit out around your house. So the ants, eat it and die. Also what she dropped in their bags were steel wool pads and dog biscuits. So, at least and Irene's mom are like, there's actual poison in this bag and the police.

21:24 Go to Helen and she's kind of blase about the whole thing. She's like, I told them it was a joke and obviously the poison was labeled poison. I just thought they You're too old to be out anyway. And no one really got hurt and the police were like there's potential. Someone could have gotten hurt. Absolutely, they could have not looked at the stupid label that you had on there and definitely try to eat that. Yeah. So she got charged and pled guilty to endangering children and she received a suspended sentence unfortunately for Ali, stroker, she told the New York, Sometimes that even like they talk to her later like 50 years later she said she never wore a costume or did anything halloween-related ever again.

22:12 It really soured her to the holiday. That's now. Yeah. Right. After this newspapers, in Detroit, reported that people had given out live field, bubble gum and in Philadelphia, they reported that rat poison was given out. Neither of these events were proven Just making stuff up. Okay it is amazing. How like, how many articles in major newspapers complete bull? Also in 1970, the New York Times runs an article about this. That's also baseless this is the headline for this though.

22:52 It's those Halloween goodies that children, collect this weekend on their rounds of trick-or-treating, pay bring them more horror than happiness. And the article just listed potential ways that candy could be tampered with. But so, it was just like, baiting people, right? I don't like it. I don't like it. Nothing. Now the next one is also the biggest and I'm sure, you know who I'm going to talk about. Hmm, I'm going to give you some background into what happened with Ronald Clark, O'Bryan most True Crime.

23:32 People do know about him his name, they called him, the man who killed Halloween, this was Halloween, 1974, Ronald was 30 years old, he was married to his wife, they need they lived in Deer Park Texas with her son, Timothy, who was Is eight and Elizabeth. Who was five? Ronald was an optician at the Texas at Texas State Optical in sharp town Houston. He was also a deacon at the Second Baptist Church and he sang in the choir and ran the local braz program for producers that need it. Ride to church events. They were your average middle-class family in the suburbs of Houston Ronald's. Pastor described him as a good Christian man and an above-average father. Now, of course, that was the surface and only his wife really knew what was going on in his life, which was that Ronald always had trouble, keeping jobs and at the time of this crime he was on job. 21 in the past 10 years. Whoa.

24:30 Yeah meaning he got fired or was allowed to resign on average two times a year and I say allowed to resign because he was constantly getting in trouble for either negligence on the Up or just outright fraud at the time you got arrested, the Opticians office were investigating him for stealing money. Now at this up to show his job, Ronald made about $150 a week and in today's money that's about 900 which is an okay amount of money if you live by yourself. And you don't have a car or any major responsibilities. But if you got two kids and a wife and like a mortgage or rent, nine hundred dollars a week isn't doing it for you. It barely covered their food and rent. We know that Ronald's car was about to be repossessed. He had defaulted on several loans and they were valued up to nearly a hundred thousand dollars. So obviously, you know, where we're going with this Halloween, 1974, and Texas is rainy.

25:39 Ronald had both his kids and their name, or Jim Bates. And his two kids, the group decided to tell, go trick-or-treating and Pasadena Texas. In hopes of getting more goodies, you know Pasadena's a slightly nicer area, the night starts out normal, they come across a house with the lights off the kids ring the bell a couple times and then they move on Ronald's. Like I'm gonna, you know, see if this person's here and he catches up with them a couple houses later and in his hands he's holding these absolutely massive. They are 21 inch, Pixy Stix, tubes of candy and for anyone who's probably not from the US. Us Pixy Stix are legitimately sugar in a tube lightly flavored.

26:24 There is no reason why we were allowed to eat these, his children, it was just right. Like it's more than other candies straight sugar. Yes, it is. He gives one to each of the kids and then he sees another neighborhood kid from his church and give someone to. So there are five of these tubes out there. Now like most parents when the nights over, you know, Ron Flag. Everyone can have one piece of candy before bed. Neither Timothy nor his sister were very interested in the giant Pixy Stix, but rondel kind of forced him. If he to picket the powdered sugar was stuck in the straw, which if you've had a pixie stick, you know, that's weird.

27:06 That's the specialist. Yeah, why is it all right? It shouldn't. It should be should move freely through well, immediately after eating a mouthful to Timothy's. Like this is gross and so Ronald gets him a glass of Kool-Aid to wash it down and then puts Timothy to bed Timothy's dead within the hour. I'm going to say, it takes a special kind of horrible to do what Ronald did next. Because before he was even back in his own bedroom, his son was crying for his father and saying his stomach hurt and pretty much he held his son while the boy convulsed vomited and gasps for air before just Falling limp in the bathroom, he finally called 911 and the ambulance rushed him to the hospital where he was Dead on Arrival. Now by sheer coincidence.

27:58 Harris, County, prosecutor. Mike Hinton was working that night police intake. So he was picking up the phone calls that were coming in and he got a phone call from Pasadena about a dead child. So Mike jumps into action and calls dr. Joseph okay his name is like spell, J Achi MC Z YK. It's too many consonants y'all. She Kim sick but Kim's. Nick is the chief medical examiner in Harris County. So Mike explains the situation, A Doctor, Joseph. And the doctor immediately says, what does his breath smell like? And so Mike calls the morgue and ask them. And they're like, it smells like almonds. So, then Mike calls, dr.

28:46 Joseph back and he's and dr. Joseph goes, that cyanide poisoning. So the following morning, the medic like the medical exam. He's absolutely 100. Right. The autopsy the following morning confirms that Not only was it cyanide, but he had consumed so much that it was enough to kill two adult men people like 400-pound kind of person. Now, Ronald handed over his son's candy immediately to the police, they tested it and it was the pixie sticks tube full of poison from all of it. Just poison. So, Ronald immediately calls his neighbor Jim and he's like, oh I hope your son. Your, your kids didn't need any, the police, look at the thing and they're like, this is very obviously been tampered with. It's, it looks like it's been open and stapled back together with like, like a stapler and so of course, they're like, well, how many did?

29:44 How many did you get from my house? And he's like, well they gave me like five of them, so I gave one each of my kids and want to a kid. We knew from church. And so the police kind of rushed to the the other family's house and they literally found the boy asleep. Holding the tube in his hand. Oh my God, he hadn't been strong enough to open up the Staples, which ultimately saved his life. So that same day, it's only November 1st right now, the police take Ronald back to the area where they trick-or-treated in there like so where did you get it from? And he's like oh you know I don't remember he's like this guy and it was like standing in the shadows of the front porch. I don't remember what he looks like investigators are immediately kind of suspicious and they let him go home. But like there's, you know, they they To pull them again and they're like, okay, so you're being kind of shady. Yeah, Shady about this.

30:50 Where did you find it? Where was the guy at the house? You are keeping us from finding your son's killer this time. He points to the house. Now, the man in the house, wasn't there. So the police showed up at his job, he worked at the airport. They arrested him in front of his fellow employees. He told the police. He'd been working that night and his wife and daughter had run out of candy early which is why the lights were shut off. Now, Mike Hinton was already feeling like Ronald story was bogus, but this really solidified it for him, not to mention Ronald's, being weird, like the day of his son's funeral. He gets into a fight with the family because he had written some songs for Timothy.

31:40 And it was gonna be like, plead on Mike the Nightly News after the funeral and his Didn't want to stay up and watch it with him. Oh my God, come on. Mike was suspicious, but it was just a hunch and it wasn't his investigation. He's just so he goes back to teaching at the Pasadena Police Academy and he lets the police do their work. You know, he's the prosecutor. He can't do yet really have any part of this because ultimately he's going to have to prosecute this. Once the information comes in In the meantime, parents and dear Parker in a total panic that people are just dropping off candy at the local police station's.

32:28 They're just here, have it, it's fine. We'll buy our kids. Some other candy, we don't care. Six days after Timothy is murdered the police show up at Ronald's door with a search warrant and an arrest warrant. Now, the reason why is over the course of those six days, they discovered that Ronald had taken on a life insurance policy on both of his kids in January for ten thousand dollars a piece and then September. So a month before this he had taken out two additional policies each for twenty thousand dollars for both kids. the police already knew about the debt, but then while they were searching through his house, they find like adding machine tape with the exact amount of his bills and it was way more than Ronald was letting on that he actually owed and they were also suspicious when they learned that on November first.

33:28 While he still, you know, sad dad, he called the insurers to learn about what he could get that thirty thousand dollars and not like he waited the whole day, like he woke up and was ready to call them. The moment they opened at 9 a.m. To talk to them about this. Which is wild well last Saturday, you know, yesterday my son died. So when can I get the 30 grand for his life? When can you pay me? This is a little, it's a little much. And on that adding machine tape, was listed the deductions of how much Dad he had. Once all the life insurance payouts were collected, the search warrant also led to a pair of plastic scissors that had a plastic residue that they had found on the candy tubes.

34:16 And that was enough to hold him for questioning. They later also found on him a pocket knife that had cyanide residue on it too. They also learned he was at Community College and they interviewed his professor and some other students who told the police that he would, ask weird questions, like what's more lethal cyanide or another type of poison a man who worked for Chemical Company in Houston called the police and said he remembered a man who had come by looking at by Cyanide and got upset that he could only buy five pounds. That's so much. I was about to say. What do you? Why would you need? Were you gonna kill everybody?

34:56 Your wife to my God? It's just so much, but he told the police. He was like, the man had dark hair and glasses and most importantly, he wore like a beige or like almost light blue Smock that he said look like a doctor which was the uniform that Ronald War to the Opticians office. Also, he did have dark hair and wore glasses as the police called other chemical companies. They all had suspiciously received these weird phone calls from a guy who had given his name but he asks weird questions. Like how much cyanide does it take to kill a man? Not like a 50 pounds. I'll tell you that. Not at all.

35:38 That was a definitive proof though because the man couldn't positively ID Ronald and this was decades before, DNA evidence was being used. Ronald, put it in a not guilty, plea and the state of Texas proceeded with their case against him. Now, Clyde DeWitt, who is the former assistant district attorney in Houston will later tell the Press. I'm not able to imagine a crime more reprehensible than someone killing his own child for money. Now what do it didn't know then and what we know now thanks to forensic psychology is that poisoners are a group of killers who lack pretty much any empathy.

36:21 We've learned this based on the crimes and how poisoning is done usually in a very cold calculating and strategic way a forensic psychologist are sorry for in a forensic psychologist named Joanie, Johnston did an interview with a any True Crime and she said that poisoning is an Instrument for someone who is kind of cunning and sneaky, not somebody who's going to be physically or verbally aggressive, they are more likely to be polite behind the scenes and as a result, they tend to fool people. This is a relevant, quote, because that is exactly what Ronald does with the police. And even at his trial, which starts on May 5th, 1975 in Houston. There's a chemist who was friends with the Clark family and sorry, O'Brien family.

37:12 And the chemist testified that Ronald would bother him with a lot of questions about killing people with poison Cyanide and he said that, he felt Ronald had an unusual interest and the subject. Ronald sister-in-law testified about how Ronald talked about the insurance payout. Out on the day of his son's funeral. And to add insult to injury, he didn't even say he was going to pay off his debts. He told the family, he was going to take a long vacation and buy some. Thanks. Now, The Smoking Gun was danee Ronald's wife, who told the jury that it was not Timothy's choice to eat the giant pixie stick, she told the jury that her son had wanted a different candy and Ronald pretty much forced him to eat it. Even though like her son said, it was nasty. Through all of this route maintains his innocence and Ronald's defense team decides to use the decades-old urban legend about poison Halloween candy, something which wasn't really even in the collective consciousness of the nation yet. And in fact, this trial made it relevant. Across the u.s., this trial is being reported on daily for the entire month.

38:38 They deliberate and the Press call him the candy man. Now, on June 3rd 1975, the trial wraps up. Jury goes to deliberate And it takes 46 minutes for them to return with a. Yeah, with a guilty verdict and they went all the way guilty for capital murder as well as four counts of attempted murder for each pixie. Stick, he gave to a child that night who didn't die and then the judge was just like well since you have decided on capital murder, we need you to deliberate on how he should be. He should die, they came back from that one.

39:20 Evan, Iman minutes later with death by electrocution within days of the verdict dating files. For divorce. She would later remarry and her new husband adopted Elizabeth as his own Ronald. Spent the next nine years in the Ellis unit in Huntsville, Texas, Reverend Carol Pickett, who worked as a Chaplain for the Texas Department of Criminal Justice will later. Tell the press that Ronald was shunned by all the other end Mates. They hated him and he had no friends in prison. In fact, the prisoners actually requested like they put in a formal Request to have an organized demonstration on Ronald's execution date.

40:09 As a sort of fuck, this guy, we hate and love it. One of the things that made the inmates Matt was that he wouldn't just go to his fate with dignity. He was originally supposed to be executed on August 8th. 1980, his attorney. Got a stay of execution for him. They rescheduled it for May 25th 1982. It got postponed. So judge, Michael mcspadden, Graduated October 31st 1980 to on the eighth anniversary of his crime when his son would have been 16. He even offered to walk, Ronald to the execution, this was going to be the first lethal injection for the first time in Texas. But the Supreme Court stopped it because there were still arguments about how Humane lethal injection was, which gave his attorney enough time to get another stay of execution, They schedule it for a fourth time. March 31st. 1984.

41:06 His lawyer files. A document saying lethal injection is cruel and unusual punishment March 28th a jug. George exit yet? It's going to go according to plan they got him a little last meal T-bone steak some french fries and ketchup corn. Sweet peas. Lettuce tomato. He has salad with French dressing. Some iced tea with a sweetener. The Boston cream pie and then March 30th 1984, he walked to his execution in just before midnight, a crowd of about 300 people outside the prison through candy at the prison and also at the anti-death penalty demonstrators and they screamed trick or treat. Ronald's, final words were, what is about to transpire? In a few moments is wrong.

42:00 However, we as human beings do make mistakes and errors, the execution is one of those wrongs yet. Doesn't mean our whole system of justice is wrong. Therefore, I would forgive all who have taken it apart in any way in my death. Also to anyone, I have offended in any way. During my 39 years, I pray and ask your forgiveness, just as I forgive anyone who was offended me in any way. And I pray and ask God for business. For all of us, respectively is In beings to my loved ones. I extend my undying love to those close to me knowing your hearts. I love you one. And all God bless you. And God bless you all and may God's best blessings be always yours. Ronald C obrien PS during my time here. I have been treated well by all TDC personnel and he was executed shortly after midnight.

42:47 Ronald was buried in Forest, Park East cemetery and Webster. Texas. Absolutely nowhere near his son who was buried in Houston. Now, another interesting thing happens, right? Well, Ronald is trying to avoid the death penalty. One of the biggest medical tampering cases hits the United States and it is a big deal that is the 1982 Chicago Tylenol murders, which were first reported in September of 1982. And they lasted between September 82 in October 1982. There were seven people who died, when Tylenol capsules were replaced with potassium. Kyanite what made these events frightening is that the devs didn't all happen in the same place.

43:34 The first one was September 29th and her name was Mary Kellerman. She lived in Elk, Grove Village, Illinois. And she was 12 years old. And then the next three all happened in Arlington. Heights was about seven miles south of where Mary died that was Adam Janice. Who is 27? His brother Stanley who was 25 and his sister-in-law Teresa, who was 19, they all got their Town off from a different store. And then a few days after that, Mary McFarlane, who was 31 of Elmhurst, and then Paula, Prince, 35 of Chicago and Mary Reiner of Winfield. She was 27, they all died. So these are all people in different cities. They very much realize that every person at taken Tylenol before they died, they all test these sign Knights found to be in the bottles, they release a warning to the people of Chicago not to take any Tylenol.

44:23 They also actually drove a car around A metropolitan area like the whole metropolitan area of Chicago, just over the speakers saying, throw out your Tylenol. So, of course, the police and the FDA, go to Johnson & Johnson, they recall all the bottles and those stores. And they discover that they were across the multiple stores, they were manufactured in two different states, Pennsylvania and Texas, making it highly unlikely that this was a manufacturer, right? So the police hypothesize that somebody must have bought a bunch of Tylenol bottles. Took them home, replace some of the capsules and then went and put them back on the Johnson & Johnson goes into total, like, protection mode of the brand.

45:16 They recall bottles and hospitals. They stop selling tylenol at all. And then, while this is going on, on somebody in California, finds strychnine in other Tylenol bottles. So, at this point, they do a full recall on October 5th 1982 as 31 million bottles with a retail value of about a hundred million dollars in the 80s, which is about 281 million dollars. Today they offered, they immediately switch over to a solid tab formula and they offer. Any customer who just wants to feel safe anywhere in the entire country.

45:59 We will replace your capsule bottle with tabs. They never find out who does this? Now, there was one guy who tried to take advantage, his name is James Williams Louis and he sent a letter to J&J trying to extort them for a million dollars and ended up going to prison for 10 years. He did it because he said they fired his wife and he just was trying to get a little extra money because he's mad at him for about 30 years though. One of the books, they blamed the Tylenol murders on James, William Lewis and he's like, no, no, no, no, no, I did not do that. He and his wife actually submitted DNA evidence to the FBI to prove.

46:43 They're the, he's a liar, but he's not a killer. They also at one point suspected a man named Roger at Arnold who was so like stressed because of the negative press when they listed him as a person of interest. But he pretty much had a nervous breakdown and he tried to kill the owner of Of a bar of the following summer. He did not kill the owner of the bar. He killed a man who looked similar man, John Standish and he served 15 years for that. And later openly spoke about how he regretted killing an innocent person and may of 1988 Lori.

47:26 Dan went on a poisoning, spree around when that to Illinois and they thought he could be a subset. He could be a suspect but he was just responsible for the ones in Winnetka. The FBI is actually still. Trying to figure out who did this crime as recent as 2011, they were testing DNA from other cases, like Ted Kaczynski because the first unifor Unabomber crimes happen in Chicago from 1978 to 1980 when Ted lived in the suburbs of Chicago, with his parents. So the crew. This crime has America in a Chokehold and then what made it even worse was that all of a sudden more copycat crime, started popping up. They became so rampant that.

48:12 This is why we now have induction seals on over-the-counter medication and tamper-proof. Packaging, that's hard as hell to open. Because of these copycat crimes also product tampering is now a federal crime. The pharmaceutical industry moved away from capsules for a very long time and the FDA continues to tweak the regulations around product tampering as new more creative ways to tamper with things are discovered. Now we're only in the 80s right now, right? Halloween 1982, ha.

48:53 Lean. We the people are still reminiscent of what happened with Robert. I was Ronald Clark O'Bryan right now. We've got this case in California. People are terrified. Candy sales, go down, 20% across the entire nation. What happens. Next is a lot of children dying by accident who it gets blamed on candy. So I'm going to give you a couple. There's a lot of them but maybe a couple. So in 1970, this kid named Kevin toastin was 5 years old and he was from Detroit, he died after finding and eating his uncle's heroin. Oh yep. The family attempted to protect the uncle. By claiming the drug must have been sprinkled on the kids Halloween candy.

49:37 God. Yep. 1978 Patrick wider. Hold was two year. Old boy from Flint Michigan who died after eating his Halloween candy. The Press was like, ah, it's the candy strangers but after toxicology tests were done, there was no evidence of poison and they were like, he just died. Maybe he was allergic to the something, maybe in 1982. The police have Redford Township near Detroit issue a statement after a kid gets ill and his doctor misread lab results And went public with charges of cyanide poisoning and Doctor Halloween candy. The police do tests, they're like there's no poison here. So, the doctor was just wrong.

50:34 In 1990 Ariel cats the seven-year-old girl in Santa Monica, California. She died while she was trick-or-treating and early press reports, blamed poison candy. Even though her parents told the police that she had a congenital heart defect, she had an enlarged heart, which was her actual cause of death. 1991 Washington. D.c. 31 year old Kevin Michael Cherry of Montgomery County has heart failure. After eating some of his child's Halloween candy and on November 2nd to Washington, times tells parents to dump their kids candies before they even wait for the autopsy. 1994 and unnamed three-year-old in New. Britain Connecticut is diagnosed as suffering from cocaine poisoning even though he was sick earlier in the day and he had a bad habit of putting anything he found in his mouth, they blame the candy which of course brings media Hysteria. More than a week later, the local police announced there was no kill Cain or any other drugs in that boys candy bag. More than likely, he picked up something that he shouldn't have him.

51:57 Put in his mouth as children are to do as the exactly 1996 seven-year-old Ferdinand Sig wig of San Jose, California, collapses after eating candy and cookies. He was given during while he was trick-or-treating, they do a urinalysis at the hospital which reveals cocaine subsequent tests tests done by an outside lab come back - and Included that the initial test results were just wrong. This conclusion was reached a day after the media had already picked up the story. Yep. 2001 a four-year-old girl in Vancouver. British Columbia Canada dies after eating Halloween, candy. There is no evidence.

52:44 She died of poison candy, She actually died from a Streptococcus infection. So here's one of the, okay. So this one is different. So how this is have you heard of drugs being in your kids, candy? Of course, that happened. But not because of the reasons why we thought Cemetery it's her kits 2000. Hercules California, trick-or-treaters come home and parents. The kids open up these Snickers bars and they have Little baggies of marijuana inside of them.

53:33 The meme is coming. True. So parents report to the police the house where the candy came from is quickly. Found the homeowners are super confused when the police investigate, they're like, okay, the homeowners had no idea that they accidentally handed out drugs. So, here's how this happened. The homeowner work for the Post Office and most locations have something called a dead letter office. Which is where all the packages with bad postage. Or not enough postage, go right. The homeowner have been tasked with getting rid of like a bunch of canned goods and like what looks like bags of candy that had been shipped?

54:15 And so he looks at it and he's like, this is perfectly good. Candy he takes it home and gives it to his wife. The handout Super Readers. Oh yeah. In fact he didn't know that those the it wasn't a real bag of Snickers. Somebody tried to cleverly mail drugs across the country. I mean and pretend it was a stickers bag so that it wouldn't get like searched or x-rayed. That's a really smart way of doing it. But damn terrible, terrible time of the year to do it. The problem is the media doesn't often follow up on these cases a lot of the, the digging that had I had to do here was like you find the first story and it's very sensationalized, right?

55:06 But they don't follow up afterward. So people just remembered that in California. In 2000 weed was in kids bags and they never looked into it any further than that, in fact. Well, okay. So I'm going to say Us. The company said that their image was tarnished, but when you find out what this company is I'm gonna I'll just okay. So it's October 8th 1988 and the New York Times reports that traces of strychnine are found in a box of Sunkist fun fruits dinosaurs and they had been purchased on September 23rd and a New Jersey.

55:52 Grocery store. The candy's had like a fine white powder, which is what strychnine looks like. So they took it to a state lab and that's kind of where the New York Times initially ends their story, the lab results, come back a week later proving that it was cornstarch, which anybody who has made homemade gummies with. No, that's how you keep them from sticking together. Now, the New York Times Did print an updated version of this story on October 14th 1988, but the company Thomas J. Lipton Incorporated had destroyed Ninety Four Hundred cases of the product. The company stated that the negativity had a huge impact on their image.

56:40 Now you might know Thomas J. Lifted incorporated as one of the largest tea makers in the world. Made about 1.6 billion dollars in t last year and have fifty percent of the market share. So they obviously recovered maybe they don't sell fruit gummies anymore, but they sell enough T, they sure as hell. Do, I didn't realize they owned, they have 50 percent of the market share of T sales. I didn't know that. It's like I said, even though both Thomas J lived in. And Johnson & Johnson recovered, the medians incessant need. To sort of stay ahead of stories. Whether those stories are true or not, is, is pretty damaging. Yeah.

57:34 They don't have all the information is one of the covers something. And there's definitely these Sensational headlines, stay with people much longer after the cases are found out to be hoaxes, or just mistaken poisonings. Now, there have been journalists who have been analyzing all of these news stories, over the last 70 years, and most of them end up being pranks. One of the bigger studies was done in 1985. A man by the name of Joel basti was a sociologist at the University of Delaware, pretty much spent a big chunk of his career, looking at Candy tampering cases from 1958 to 1983 and he found that of those cases that he was able to confirm were actual candy tampering were about 90 of them.

58:21 None of them were random. Attempts to like her kids, 78 were outright pranks, five were adults, who attended to kill children to get like financial compensation. Those were Timothy O'Bryan and Kevin tostan. And the rest were just kids trying to get intention. Like one of the cases, it's actually really funny. It a kid brought an apple to his parents and was like, I think there's poison on this and he had eaten like half the apple and there was poison on the other half of the Apple, but he had dipped it in like he had done. That was a kid. Yes.

59:03 Are you serious? What the hell? They are mass. Why goddamn thing we can absolutely. Say kids are a friggin mess and the pranks were things like people and sold like inserting needles or razor blades into like another. For I got friends candy because they had heard the myths and they were like oh this is gonna be so funny. Let me take just not realizing they're about to cause community-wide. Panic. Yeah, that's not funny. Not at all. No Joel best isn't the only person to look into this. But his coverage of it actually came out during the height of candy hysteria. The mid-80s and a lot of other people have written about it since then, but for people in our age range, you know, Millennials and also some younger Gen-X and also sometimes gen Z we kind of now make fun of it, you know? No, because here's the thing, like I said, drugs are expensive?

1:00:10 No one's hand them out for free. It's really easy. As you can see, from the police to track down where ever tainted, candy actually came from. They very quickly can zero in on which house it came from based on asking people questions about it. So Ronald Clark O'Bryan which is kind of a dummy. Yeah. There aren't even that many people who tried to kill her kids with candy. So thankfully that's good one thing though. Interesting is that Joel best? Thanks, that we've sort of shifted, our fear culturally from the supernatural or satanic, because the 80s had the satanic Panic right to real monsters, like that. In True Crime, his direct quote is, we don't believe in ghosts and goblins, we believe in criminals. We have revised what held the Louis menaces from the homicidal maniac you know like in slasher movies to a person so crazy he poisons the candy of strangers and I honestly think he's right culturally Americans, seem to subsist off of the idea of constantly.

1:01:25 Having a boogeyman. We're worried about got to be worried about something be it, religious Supernatural a socio-economic group that we think is destroying the country or racist opinions. Of a marginalized Community, sometimes all of the above at the same time, but we have this weird space within our country where many of us are safe, but we fear our communities and I'm really not sure why we're like this. And that's probably a conversation for a later date. But for some Americans, the fear of the stranger, who lurks just outside of your peripheral seeking to harm, your family is a boogeyman who is palatable someone you can prepare for Ultimately protect your family.

1:02:10 From we know that the reality is very different. But in a weird way, looking at the world like this makes people feel safe because the truth of the matter is that we are most likely to be hurt by the people. We know, and love, and I don't know if people can come to terms with that reality. Like, if it's just too hard for you to look at the people around you and go one of these people might kill me. So instead we fixate on all of these different boogeymen and for Halloween and the candy, giving time the boogeyman is the random person in your community, who's definitely trying to get, your kid hooked on drugs. You know, because he just got all that money. He got all that extra lot of extra Jack money. All the he's just got all that time to put needles, inside tiny Snickers bars, or things of that nature, but it's still, it's very interesting.

1:03:20 That's all I got for you today. It's my time spent looking up all the different candy crimes in America and it's good that we're not so crazy about it. Now, I do still see Some news articles about it though. Yeah, I've seen a few already this year, drugs and candy and stuff everybody every once in a while people are like, oh you gotta make sure you double check your kids candy and I'm like y'all just made me throw out a perfectly good piece of candy because it got opened in the bag while I was dragging the back down the street. Because you know, listen the first couple times you go trick-or-treating, you carry that cute little pale and then you get to be like 10 and you just take a pillowcase and call it a day. Damn, right.

1:04:17 But what do you have for us today? Brian. Okay. So today I'm going to keep up with what I did for last episode. I'm going to hit you with a Halloween like origin stories, / history. And then I'm going to add a little Cryptids, 10 episode, all right, because this is Halloween and we stay in the spooky season, right? Hmm. Okay. So Britney Are you ready for trick-or-treat night? You know, you got your candy, you got your decorations, you got the whole shebang-a-bang going on. We didn't really do a whole lot, but we do have a bag of candy. Oh, it's a chocolate, is just like regular candy. You know, people who got their allergy, nut allergies chocolate.

1:05:07 Allergies, unfortunately, chocolate allergies are saying, well, yeah, one of my cousin's used to try and seek chocolate and it was always a problem. Yeah, me myself. I'm definitely going to have my pennies in my reasons. Ready for these kids you giving out pennies like you're a 75 year old grandma. Oh yes pennies raisins and toothbrushes. I'm pretty deadly have milky Way's like a bag of Milky Way's that we're gonna be heading out. Oh my God I don't know which went to the store today and grab some candy. So yeah I got to actually go tomorrow and make sure I can t I gotta make sure I can.

1:05:51 T44 thing is we live like in the middle of downtown. So Don't even know if kids are going to come by. So that's why we only grab like two bags but I'm wearing a costume to work on Monday so I guess I just won't take it off because I'm just gonna wear that. Ya know, the area you're in right now. Yet a lot of kids do walk that street, do they? I'm so excited. I'm gonna get more candy then. Thank you for telling me. No problem grew up here. Yeah, I live right up the street from where you're at right now. But yeah, Yeah, a lot of kids. Hey, I'm gonna tell her so we can buy more candy. We're gonna hang out on the porch from six to eight. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1:06:34 I bet there's one Halloween treat. You don't have ready and if you do look at you for covering all your bases. Oh, okay. So have you heard of a soul cake before? Hmm, people put the word soul in front of a lot of things. I don't think I've heard about it in this context. That this is true. This is true. Okay? So hi. Soul blobel. Well, thus, okay, what actually take them as they come with like the beginning of I guess the trick or treating like like very beginning like night, it wasn't even, trick-or-treating wasn't called Halloween at this time ago, back when it was like Pagan.

1:07:26 It was like, you know, All Souls day, which is actually the day after Halloween actually, not all so well for some people. No, okay, I'll st. Paul Saints Day and All Saints Day is the after Halloween and All Souls day. Is the after that Oh, I'm so confused that. Yeah, but listen. That's some Christian stuff and you know, I haven't kept up with that since high school. I know, but it's all cake is basically, just I mean, it could be like a cookie could be a biscuit. It's like there certainly are different types of recipes for this certain treat. That was given out on these days. It's like they came about like 19th century so like, like like it was just something so easy.

1:08:24 Why? Yeah, why. Yes. Well so well, this is something that goes along with this actually really is a song that goes along with this. I'm just gonna seem like the course of it and I'm gonna sing it. I'm just gonna read it. It says a soul, a soul, a soul cakes. Please give mrs. A soul cake. An apple a pear of Plum or a cherry and a good thing to make us all marry one of her Peter 2:4 Paul three for him, who made us all, okay. So yeah, this was something, you know how, you know, what Christmas, you have your carolers and stuff like that.

1:09:14 Um, well, during All Saints Day, All Souls day Halloween, at that time, they had people, that would come around, whether they be homeless, people were Beggars and they would, you know, sing the song, the risk arrows, and the people of the house, would they normally would have a soul cake and what the soul? Cakes represent it was for one person won't for one so cake to get a soul, you know, I mean, so so big so a lot of people just go around and, you know, do these, these Carol's prayers something like that. And Actually called souling like me. Okay.

1:10:15 So here's my question, right? You said this me about in like the 19th century? Yes. So I'm guessing they probably don't have too many decorations. Like I feel like the 1800s. We didn't have like, pretty cakes. No, they were basic as cakes that you, they're not even like they're basically like, no, like was there making biscuits? No, nothing on top of. It is just basic biscuit looking cooking. Cookie thing. No. See is not a cake. It's not a cake or no. I Look ish, a biscuit. It has sugar flour, eggs cookies. Like Biscuits.

1:11:05 Yeah, yeah. They are get up now cakes. I guess. Um, but yeah, like I said there was a song that was created that was only a chorus of what I read. Um so after I'd stay out of this, you know what Mummers are, right? Yeah, okay, cool, excellent. So, For anybody who doesn't know him. Warmers are there like entertainers, basically, actors who, you know, go out in the streets. They dance.

1:11:48 They performed they they were quite costumes. Sounds familiar, right? Something reason why I said. Yeah, so excitedly is because Philadelphia. Yeah, I know the mummer's parade. I had and War and authentic Mummers costume every Halloween for like For years, my aunt got it for me, my Angie and got it for me and I loved it and I didn't care that. Nobody knew what it was because I know what it was. That's all that matters. But yeah, like I guess back in length 18 century. They were just, like, working class street performers. Absolutely talk about the cool.

1:12:28 Like they look so cool. I don't know if they're like cool people now but I know they look cool. Yeah, so modern-day trick or treat. Just are thought of as being like descendants of these bombers. Oh cool. Yeah, I love that actually. Yeah. Right is so cool. And they were not only come out, of course for Halloween, but they come out for other special like the times of the year. How Christmas? Also they stuff like that. That's when the mummer's parade is. I think it's New Years Day and Philadelphia. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's that's a big celebration. Oh yeah, a lot of people.

1:13:10 They were just go to, you know, they knew where like trick-or-treaters, nowadays, they go to that one person's house. They know they got those fools eyes can't. There's king-size candy bars. The mummer's would go to the, you know, the rich people's houses. They know we're a rich, and there we go. Yep. You know, they get food and you get something to drink, they might get a gift for her performance out there. You never know. But yeah, yeah yeah that is that like when I read about the mummer's, I was like, oh that's awesome. Just go out there and like is just definitely trick-or-treating.

1:13:53 Okay, so I've Googled what these cakes look like. And one, they're ugly. And why do they have x's on them? Some of the notes. I don't know what I have x's on the some that see that's the It's the thing some of them are like they're different recipes for making up some who say they did do certain things become put some certain things in it make it you know certain way make it fluffy. Some of them are fluffier than a cookie and some of them are like flat, like a damn biscuit or like God, our flat like that looks beautiful. But some of these look ugly, Yeah, a lot of them while we're making like a traditional Soul cake, it's definitely going to look ugly. Yeah, there's somebody's look rough like real throw whatever we got in the house inside of these cookies but the more modern ones like one of these look like a little pie, it's a little tiny cute.

1:14:58 That's cute people know the cultural significance who are doing them like today and Is time. I would hope so, because I've also read some stories about so cakes. Some of them in Creepypastas, some of them being actual like stuff and, you know, they're used to like represent, like I guess they're, they're, they're given to appease spirits of the, you know, of All Souls day, all same standard. Okay, yeah, you know what I mean? So, And I thought that was really cool because it goes, he has spirits and you're giving out treats to the spirits. Let's go.

1:15:49 It's like what culture is that Mexico? Does that yes, what their their little, there's a proper name for it that I should know because we just watch CoCo at school but he'll still owes Mortals but there's like the name of the place where they put all the pictures in the Food. Remember what the ofrenda? Yeah, Yeah. They put food on the ofrenda. So that's what I that's the only culture. I really like know that has like I mean lots of cultures have death rituals but that's probably the one I'm most familiar with some like they feed their dads through that. Yes.

1:16:30 It's, you know, and I think I might be wrong with this but I'm pretty sure I read this as well. Really Peru also they do celebrate. So celebrate, the, the soloing. Okay. And like this came from freaking Europe and made it all the way down to Peru stuff. So it's like things, I think I love the most about, like the Mexico in the thing. With the putting the food on the farm bar is that it's it's offered to the ghost for the Roma. Yes. Because they know they can't eat, but maybe they can smell it. And remember, it is, remember that kind of love that. Yes.

1:17:20 But we go study here so you can remember what it was like to eat when you were alive and hopefully that doesn't make you hungry. That's what I put alcohol to a lot of people. Now that is one thing a lot of cultures do put out booze for the dead for one out. For the homies, please bottle of wine. Your file is your finest Pinot Noir, please for me. Oh, is that what you want? Please, thank you. I appreciate that. Listen, if I'm gonna be dead, you better drop a bottle of tequila on My Grave. Oh, you got it? It's no problem.

1:18:00 Y'all sit around it, the gravestone do a shot and then go home? Yes. Wait no, you can't drive home. We shall just said, alcohol, that's a shot. It's only an ounce of liquor. It takes an hour for that to go to your system. You'll be fine. Tell spooky stories in the meantime, there you go. I wish we had more interesting death culture like death rituals in the u.s. that would be nice we lost a lot of it. I think a more modern area people are scared of the Dead Just fear death.

1:18:46 Yeah, is what this but that you know. But the problem is they fear it to the point where you don't prepare, and then you leave your family with huge bills and, you know, like my best friend's grandmother, she prepared everything ahead of time. She had already purchased her casket and her like grave plot decades before she died. She's like, I don't want y'all to have to deal. This, she hurts her mind, my friend knew what she wanted to be buried in how she wanted her hair done. She had a whole little plan and that's appreciated because when my mom passed away we were sad and it was it didn't matter how many times the doctors told me that she had a fatal illness.

1:19:38 My brain was like she's not dying. What are you talking about? So I wasn't really ready. I remember like picking out like there was stuff I wanted to do like I wanted to get like a piece of her hair, you know, for like you know, like the um, They did in the 14th century like in the Renaissance, they would like use the hair and like an art piece or something. Totally forgot about that in the moment. I just picked it outfit and sent that to the people and then my dad, let me choose the flowers and I was like, he's like choose our favorite flowers and I was like, they're all out of season. He was like, I don't care.

1:20:26 So she had beautiful. Like irises and mums, and all sorts of flowers that don't grow in December all over the church. Yeah. Yeah. But like I wish we had more stuff in our country. Like you know what we should do? A thing for what is it going to be weird. But I saw a story about this. Okay, some guy he knew he was dying and he just wanted to get tattoos, okay. And he wanted to leave his children or something. So what he did was he got his whole body covered with tattoos and then Like when he died he had his skin peeled, whatever, you know, with the tattoos pivot off his skin. I think I remember this part of it was kept. Yeah, yeah, most of that was kept if we're like his kids to like, hang up and like, just look at Art, the art that he had on him, and I think that it's, it's McCobb. Definitely.

1:21:34 But that's something I would probably do. They call them human. Pelts. Yeah, something I would probably do not going to lie. You want me to save your little Pok��mon tattoo Pokemon tattoos. Thank you for get. There's more, there's more than one. Yes, save those. Absolutely. Before we get cremated. Yeah, might as well. Okay, so Like it's not as crazy as the dad who wants the skull like beautified and gemstones, put in the eye sockets and left on the mantle that's to make them. You can make a mug out of my skull. He really wants you to, that's, that's no badass. Your children, love you, exactly. They're gonna be sad.

1:22:35 Drink your morning coffee. Out of my head. I know they would be terrible. Oh my God, I'm just thinking of different ideas to preserve memory. Yeah, you look, you've made a podcast that has been listened to by a quarter of a million people and this will be online forever. Probably, this is true and he will hear, it isn't like Dad. What the hell were you thinking? Ha ha. Ha. Oh God. All right, all right. All right. So I do. I do have my Cryptid. All right, so this one I saw weeks ago. Okay.

1:23:16 And like, was it new to you when you heard about it, it really was nice. And it's another I'm sorry I had to do it because it's new to me and it was in that it's from the area. So it's another bigfoot-type monster out. Of course it is. Okay, we'll check it out. Okay this one is from Colombia pa. Okay. In between like that in between Lancaster in Colombia. I like that even less. It's called.

1:23:58 Oh boy. Oh bad witch. A lb 80, which all bet which as how I'm going to say it. First thing I see is I'll bat which festival. Yes, why are we? It just it just happened like two weeks ago. It literally just happened two weeks ago. They had a festival of it. Oh look at all the little stuff. He's so thing with a hat. Karen, an apple. Yeah, yeah that's um, actually where he gets his name from they used to apparently still apples.

1:24:47 Oh okay, they really liked apples. It looks so small. It is small. You know how tall that thing is? No, it's four feet tall. Okay? Because you said it was a Bigfoot but it's considered a Bigfoot. It's not, it's a humanoid honestly Bigfoot. I mean like a humanoid 8 type thing. I'm looking at a very blurry photo. but yes, the all belt, which is local Legend from Columbia Pennsylvania and They celebrate this thing. Like I I've lived in Lancaster all my life and I've never heard of this thing.

1:25:40 Um, and it's a small man was, how did you never hear about a festival down the road from where you grew up, right? I have no idea, but it used to live like I guess the, what it Airy wooded areas. And I guess it lived by chiques Rock. I don't know where that is. Where's that is, why? But I'm pretty sure I've driven by their a lot because Colombia is not that big. And I guess he should hang around the Susquehanna River Banks as well. So, I know what that is.

1:26:21 Yeah, I would hope. So, ha ha. We I lived on the Susquehanna River for like five years legitimately like my my apartment looked out onto the river, that's why we laugh. But yeah. Okay. So chiques rock it's a like a County Park from it's the shortened version of chicken. Okay, she cast Saloon. Gotta meaning place of the crayfish. It's an indigenous word. I know, roots, that looks. So that's why they called it just chickies because they don't know how to say words and I get it. Pennsylvania is full of indigenous towns and nice for things that are very hard to say. I'm pretty sure I drive by there on a daily basis, for work drive by the park.

1:27:15 And it looks like there's like a river there to gather is never easy. The river I guess part of the Susquehanna to yeah. Okay I believe that's yeah, that's a bridge that crosses over from Colombia to Wrightsville. Well, you've been there a lot? That's where your friend lives. This movie never was, I've been to that Park to, I don't know. You should go where hunt. I should really do something like there. Yeah. I will watch it. As you live streaming will not be out in the woods, looking for creatures, you know, how I feel about the woods and the things that live there. Now, of course, goodness.

1:28:03 But yeah, like, like this, this I'll bet, which is, it's named after I guess, like I said, I have it. It, it has it likes to just take Those, and that's cute. It's short for Apple snitch. So Apple snitch, I'll bet which That's not Computing. Brian look, I didn't come with this, you right you, right? You didn't come up with it but it's because it's a lb 80 which? Yeah.

1:28:44 Yeah I know. All right whatever we'll get easiest no apples from picnickers apparently that's and they use the drove them at people too. But yeah. This is Legend says that our batch, which is they either became extinct, or were driven into Extinction after the 19th Century Century. There have been a lot of well, supposed sightings at chiques Rock, okay, they see strange things out there.

1:29:31 Hear strange noises. They don't know what's going on up there. I mean it's going to be a. So who knows? What's going on out there? In about like the 1950s 1970s there was a man-like figure that was seen several times around the area. Okay? And and I guess Legends say that they heard like sounds that sound like a crack of a whip in the woods. And they're like well maybe this could be like I don't know and I'll bat which just like doing something else their nose. Like, I don't know, like it's a bigfoot-type monster. and I guess, Not only in Colombia but they it was also spotted in Lancaster PA in about like 1973 and it's only like 10 miles away from Columbia.

1:30:41 So that's not too much too far of a stretch for, you know, to travel that far. And I was in like the same year that I guess it started appearing, or after it started appearing in Colombia. So between 1950s 1970s, it was a Columbia and then a little bit afterwards, it started heading towards like a stir. So K knows where it's at. Now, it's also been. I guess reported that it's been seen in your county to so that's far away. It look, it's hitting like a sir Columbia York it's it's probably just making its way down the East Coast making its way downtown walking fast faces pass and he's homebound apparently He's going, you know, where he's going, where he's going down to East Coast, he's going down to Florida because that's where all Pennsylvania's go, okay, no. Yes.

1:31:52 Okay. So There's a book about, uh, it's called ghosts of the river towns is by Rick Fisher. And he goes over basically Chronicles, different creatures, that he's or different things. He's seen in these towns by Rivers. Here is a story about he was writing he was driving down Route, 23. Okay. We're this near chiques rock is a cold. February morning, we had to string G counter, and is now in a distance.

1:32:34 He saw appeared to be a person walking in the Middle Road and as Fisher got closer, he slowed down significantly because the person seemed small enough to be a child. So like I said, I think it was four feet tall so he was like oh no. Yeah, he's lost some children Charles Laws and it was like a stick thin as a stick thin figure. And yeah, he said it was like about five feet tall. It was covered in hair and it just stood in the road Fisher. He flashed on his high beams. He to get a better. Look, see, I was about to say then he turned around and didn't engage.

1:33:15 Yep. Now he fly Ash's i-beams, continue. No. He flashes all your beans and then the creature did turn around and it had these yellow eyes ever staring right back at his car. And then after he flashes High beings on the figure, just finished right there. Middle of the road, just vanished. yeah, and like he just wrote about it in this is part of his little book but What drew me to this thing just says out bat which is that in the beginning of October there is an out bat which Day Festival and we missed it and we missed it was October 30 minutes away.

1:34:16 Yes, and we missed it. It happens. It happens from 11 a.m. to 5 p.m. and it's just a freaking Festival. You get Ghost Tours or vendors. Are you a music artist there? People dressing up as an out bat which ha ha. It's yeah. When's the Mothman? We got to go do that. Oh, I think it's some like drawing a blank. I'm pretty sure. Is like either July or August. So we got to go there, definitely next year. Third weekend in September. Damn, really owes hole.

1:34:58 Yeah. Next year next year I guess I know what I'm doing. September their weekend going to South Carolina, West Virginia. Man, what was Virginia? Oh goodness. But yet, if you want to know any more about the alphabet, which you can definitely go to, I'll bet which day.com and it basically gives you like a little legend of the elbe at which things that go on during the day of the festival, which actually look pretty cool.

1:35:47 And I am really sad that I missed. Miss it this year, but I will definitely try to make it next year and hopefully is always in the beginning of October I think. So, let's hope that's the thing and I'll make it. Um, well yeah, let's do it. Yeah, that's that's where I got for this week. Well, thank you all so much for listening. I'm going to stay with the A lot of work that I'm doing right now like my main job is like 45 Plus hours a week. We probably won't be having 3 our podcasts anymore.

1:36:33 Things will probably come out and parts. If I do, like big cases, like we do, like I did with, you know, Bundy or Manson, those are probably more likely but hopefully you'll still be happy. Even if the podcast is only like an hour and a half, just gotta sort my time a little differently now but unfortunately, yeah, so thank you for listening. Yes, we appreciate it so much and have a good Halloween. Yes. Make sure you get those so cakes. Ready? But make them cute.

1:37:15 It's please make them cute. As some frosting, at least the ancestors want frosting anyway. Happy Halloween.