Anthony Sowell and the Dark Path that lead to the Cleveland Strangler

0:37 Everybody in serial killer country. It's your girl. Brittany Ransom and I'm here, will pray Joyner and welcome to see Today, we are celebrating our podcast a story one year ago. Today we sat down and record, our first podcast, a little scared, and I'm sure and now 250,000 wasn't later. We're stepping in and 2022, a little less scared, but still ready to give you the Deep Dives, that many of you came back for over and over last year. If you're new here with Coach get caught, is a three second podcast. Meant to give you a little light. Snack is bright and I discuss a True Crime Story that's going on in the world this week then will lead you down a path of Lesner known. Well, known serial killers and As their childhood wives methodology. And most importantly how they got caught and Brian finishes us off with an episode of hair.

1:26 I messed that all up. This is new, it's a new thing, so I messed up. So I start from the beginning. No, no, no, it's okay. Keep going. Okay, so sad and Brian finish us off with a paranormal palate, cleanser But before we get to the episode, I should have let you know that when Killers get caught dot shop is officially live. And look at this merch for those of you watching on YouTube or Spotify, this is our podcast. Merge drop. We have my glorious weenie that I'm wearing now and this rather snazzy mug. As well as our first series of shirts that we are calling dicted a fun creation of some of our favorite Cryptids from last season stylized to be a little on the thick side.

2:13 Our first victim was inspired by the statue of the Mothman and Point, Pleasant West Virginia and it is going right here on my pink Hood. And scale just a little booty tooch. Just a little booty tooch. You can't see the high heels, but they look very nice. If you want to give her early symbol of their Instagram is bonesy underscore Doodles are other artists is SK Dot. SK m dot artists and they are both on Instagram scam. Artist did all of our our logo and the image for the mug, which I call are arrested banner. And yeah, anyone who buys anything in the next month is going to get put into a drawing to win some custom swag. That Brian.

3:02 And I are going to sign you get a personalized thank-you from one of us thanking you for being honest. Journey with us. And yeah that's just it, it's very exciting and I can't wait for the other designs to come, right. Yeah. Brian's waiting on a couple of other cool things. Like a cropped. Hoodie long sleeve sweatshirt without a hood, right? Yeah. Yeah. It's going to be so far when I've worn some of this stuff on Livestream. People are just like we wait. So once I thought he could have dropped well, Where you getting that mug? Just wait. You'll know, you'll find out when you just found out today. Well, here's the thing.

3:46 If you are listening to this podcast right now, everything is up on the website. So it's when Killers get caught. Shop. And this week in True Crime, So do you remember Brian a couple months ago? There was that guy who was way too and to q and on and he killed. He took his two-year-old and ten-month-old to Mexico and murdered them. Yes, he is. So what I came across a couple days ago was his name is Matthew Coleman and he has apparently devoid of a constant diet of Internet.

4:30 He's kind of come to his senses. They said, he poured out his heart in a jailhouse letter to a friend. They said he's really despondent and hopeless, he's reflecting on his mistakes. He made in life and wondering if there's any chance for Redemption. I doubt from your wife, you just killed her two under two-year-old baby so yeah, that's not gonna happen anytime soon. Yeah, it was August 7th and the family were planning to go on a trip. So like everything was already packed up his wife. Abby realized that they were like all gone. And she couldn't contact him at, he wouldn't answer the phone, nothing he took their van and drove from Santa Barbara, California. All the way to Mexico and two days later he took the kids to a ranch.

5:22 It wasn't his, it was just some random thought of land, and he killed him with a spear phishing God, but he returned to the hotel, a couple hours later and he got arrested when he was trying to cross the border back into the u.s. and for folks who don't know, like people who get way too, Deep into Q&A on start thinking about like how everybody's made out of lizards. They've merged q and on with Illuminati conspiracies and honestly Illuminati has just become like a mega conspiracy. We've talked about it on the patreon. Yes, yes. Yeah. Like when I heard about the speargun, it was like that's a little bit of Overkill, don't you think my guy definitely and I mean he believed they were going to grow up to become Um not like yeah you know you're a monster like real most literal monsters. Yeah he thought they were going to be literally wizard monsters. Yeah.

6:21 I feel super bad for the guy because like that's the thing is like when Trump was agonies people on especially like Trump was telling people to do things and get themselves arrested in trouble. None of those people that he edged on to hurt other people. He stopped paying for any of those people to Legal funds. He's on helping me those people out. So no words in it. That It took being in prison for four months to kind of deprogram himself when it comes to conspiracy theories and that's why thing anybody listen who likes them?

7:04 It's fun to like talk about certain conspiracy theories, but when you cross that threshold of thinking that like you need to kill people. You got to step back. Yeah, yeah. You gotta think about what you're doing, buddy. But that was my True Crime Story this week. What you got? Okay. So this happened. It's a couple days ago. So, right actually take after Christmas so Minnesota, man. He confesses to killing his dad and his sister. He confesses to his brother, that he's killed them and the way they found a body, he's, they were just like sitting upright in their chairs.

8:01 So I guess I guess right after Christmas or whatever they were doing, you know, you had these two over and you got two dead. Pieces with Dash? Yeah, yeah they're just sitting here. So the table set, the creep Factor. It doesn't say so The person who did it. His name is Ivan. Maybe I've been marked room Delilah and it's a double a dog.

8:47 So I don't know if they'll be Russian, it's because he's like, he's a, he's a POC. So he's black guy. So maybe it's a different country. Yeah. His African name or something like that, you know, this is you tell anybody why he just ran him over these people know, okay? So this is a story to how it went well according to his brother who he told so he said like he his brother, his brother was acting weird and then he ultimately like he broke down and told him that. Yeah, I shot I shot dad in, you know, sister Like a couple of few days ago actually, so oh. So yeah, so the snow was probably not that nice just sitting there at the dinner table and I don't know, you know if it was dinner table just says they were sitting up sitting up in our chairs.

9:49 Yeah. So yeah, you know, his brother went to, you know, investigator. He got the complete, the police to come over and, you know, the founder on locked in the, then they found. The dad in the sister, just there sitting upright in her chairs and apparent gonna strip root booster heads and like he's been arrested, of course, and he's charged with. I think we're seeing that. It's Second degree murder. Yeah, so yeah, I'm not sure it was like a holiday gathering that went wrong.

10:34 It doesn't really like well. I wonder what happened. Great. You know what? It may be because Either he was, he was living with his dad and his sister, and he was trying to evict them and something went sour or he like, I'm in an addiction an addiction from life. But yeah I think he's he's he's gone to court his first Court appearances.

11:17 January 12th. So you see yeah yeah yeah sometime soon. And yeah, that's about it. Oh, I got for this week. All right. Well, he's heading to my killer deep dive. And last year, this serial killer was requested. Multiple times that didn't have the time to cover them, but I aim to please and I actually had a secret Santa from Reddit, who got me booked and I assumed, you know what, that must be my sign from the Aether that it's time to cover Anthony style, one of Ohio's, most prolific serial killers and also Known as the Cleveland Strangler the main source of this week's podcast was nobody Swimming by Steve Miller and I think that title kind of gives you an idea why he was able to kill 11, women from 2007 to 2009 and not even be a suspect despite the fact that he had a criminal record he also was known at like the local hospital for being a rapist. It was terrible time.

12:34 This is going to be a terrible time. It's it was hard for me to write this one this week. It was bad from start to finish. Well, I guess one of those crazy things and there was a stench of death That started in like 2006 and went on until 2009 that they blamed on a local sausage manufacturer, that was around the corner. Not they didn't check any houses. Nothing. Oh my God. Okay, okay, we'll wait. So you've been in Lancaster, right? So on the stretcher I'm not even sure if it's like if the factory still there, but you've been passed the hot dog Factory, right?

13:17 I don't know. I mean I've been by a chicken factory and that's the friggin worst. I forget what street it's on. But there's a hot dog Factory in like in the middle of like the city we're not in Middle City but like terms outskirts of the city and like you drive past it just smells just like hot dogs and I mean I could yeah I can't I know chicken factory smell really bad because of how they keep the chickens. Like happen is all that poop and stuff but I don't think sausage factories are the same way and this is like a small one like in a community like these are houses and then there's this little tiny building. It's called Ray sausages. They're still around but their struggle, it partially because of what happened to you, right?

13:59 But like every week I can only start at the beginning. Anthony cell was born August 19th 1959 to a single mother and Aunt Connie Garrison. He's one of seven children and neither he nor any of his siblings ever knew their parents, then their fathers. His siblings have spoken with the media or testifies of try out. Our trusty Garrison Owen Davis, Thomas L Allen Sal, a Tricia Davis Thatcher. His mom, Claudia struggled, as any parent would with so many children. Trying to provide for them with little resources, trying to get help from A system that makes it hard for you to actually do better while you're on it. And on top of that, Claudia was also supporting her mother Irene Justice.

14:45 The kids never really had a solid place to live or anything of their own before. He was like five or six years old. He was a lot like the definition of a latchkey kid by kindergarten and for people who don't know what that means because it's not really a term to use anymore. So, latchkey kids were children. And who walk to school by themselves, they had a key on like a string or a lanyard around their neck and they walked home where they would also be alone for hours because their parents were working all the time. Now Anthony's older sister Patricia had a very serious case of asthma as a child and by the time she was 18 and Anthony was only like six or seven. She had five kids of her own so she didn't really have the time to help her mother.

15:33 With Anthony or any of the other kids. and, At the point where Anthony's like seven years old, Claudia and Irene, you know Mom and Grandma have a home at six kids and now adult Patricia has another house with her own seven kids. So I said by 18, she had five, then she had two more. And so what would essentially happen is that like whoever was working would be watching the kids 13 of them. And by say watching, I mean, not watching because it's nearly impossible. Like I worked as a teacher for years and in the state of Pennsylvania, you are not even legally allowed to watch more than 12 children under the age of, I believe eight. So this is that, and this will be hard enough in the 60s and 70s, but the South kids also suffered from birth defects mental illness and some of the kids said, epilepsy all up and down the barbed wire and you It hard for, you know, spending money on doctor's appointment, that's taken more money out of the potential.

16:45 And there was 0, both physical and sexual abuse. So in 1966, Anthony is hanging out at his older sisters house. He Witnesses his older nephew, take his younger niece into the closet and abuser as the time he didn't understand it, but he's he began to look at that as if it was normal. Later in life that he was psychologically evaluated. He told doctors that he was being molested as well. During this time, he told the doctors that it only ended when he did his older, his older Matthew you go.

17:25 So remember this is his yesterday. Yeah fine. Yeah, that's what happens. When you have like, an older sibling having babies the same time. Mom is hmm. But he said, he couldn't exactly remember what stopped? But it's now August of 1969. Years later, Patricia dies of chronic bronchitis due to her asthma. She's only 27 years old, seven kids, and all of her kids were moved to the house on East Boulevard with Mom and Grandma. So now there's 13 kids at this house.

18:05 Damn everybody, all the kids sleep into three to a room some of the children as well. Patricia's children didn't even know that Claudia was their grandmother. I think she was hurt there, Mom? Yeah, I think so. Hmm, it was just so chaotic and also Claudia was really mad at Patricia about the fact that she had so many children kind of like, you know, I'm parents like I don't want you to go down the same path that I went down and so she didn't like her grandchildren and the kids all new. Like, if she wanted to talk to you or talk to them, she be like, go get that black. So, and so They apparently said she was only nice to one of the nieces who was like skin.

18:49 So a little bit of inter-family color isn't happening there, right? Yeah. That's all that house on East Boulevard is where physical abuse started. Claudia was so stressed with all the children like her and Irene, we're just working 24/7. Like, only one of them was ever at the house. That time, I know, Claudia had two jobs, everyone's working another job. So, what the stress levels that high, she started hitting kids And it became like her fuse was super short. Your chores weren't done correctly, you get caved, you know, switch extension cord. Unfortunately this is the old way that holder black folks used to deal with kids. And, you know, we look back at it now and it's awful and, you know, I look at my friends and I'm like so proud that all the people that I know who have kids, don't treat their kids like this.

19:46 But I feel bad because we were treated this way and our parents were treated this way. That's yeah, that's the breaking of like it talk. I talked to tear about it like a lot like breaking that like generational curse and stuff like we got to raise our kids, a little softer and people like the world's not going to treat them that I'm like, yes, the world is not going to treat themselves. So at least they can have a safe place in their home. Exactly, exactly. But a 1970, the entire family moves to a house on page. Avenue. And it was large enough that almost all of the kids had space to living by themselves. A couple of the rooms they like partitioned off to make like two bedrooms.

20:26 They had a big yard space to play in when both Irene and Claudia were at work. They would just play in the yard climate cherry tree. This was kind of the closest to a time of happiness in their childhood because there was never money for birthdays. No, sleepovers no candy or any food, that wasn't homemade and the beatings didn't stop. And when Anthony was spoke interviewed post being found for his crimes, he said that his child home was like a war constant yelling and screaming the being for brutal. Claudia would have the children strip and then she would tie them to the banister at the foot of the stairs, and beat them with an extension cord Earth, which and it happened pretty much every single day and sometimes in the middle of the night. Despite the fact that Happy's kids are school age, she was finds like an unwashed dish at 2 a.m. and she wake everybody up for this, like ritualistic public lashing. That reminds me of slavery.

21:32 Mmm-hmm. Yeah other times she just has to get mad and she walked into a kid's room and just start beating them while they were sleeping and the kid didn't even have any idea of what they did wrong. so, so remember the uncle well, So, Anthony had an uncle known as Junior. And this point. Now a lot of the older boys and some of the older girls are moving into puberty, which means that the, the boys are focusing on the girls and Anthony found out that his mom had a secret stash chips and sodas and candy and he would steal it, and he would blame it on his cousin Leona. So he could see her getting dressed. And he what it says he started sexually assaulting her when he was 13 and she was 12.

22:42 And she said that before that they were friendly, but his whole demeanor changed after half. And we got really violent with her. Whenever she tried to avoid, like, going up to his bedroom, punch her in the face, gave her a black eye and the honest of this went on for years. Uncle Junior. Uncle Junior are sold his own sister Ramona and so did Anthony's brother Owen? Jr's younger sister. Renee was also being assaulted and this was happening every day in her home. And the girls were still being beaten by Claudia. So they had absolutely no idea who they could turn to all the girls began running away from home in their own teams. and even what's Claudia found out, or like learned with the girls were saying, she didn't believe them, which is also Sterile, like it's also an aspect of the black community that, you know, was very rampant during this time, too. She had nobody to turn to God.

23:43 Not even safe in your own house is just terrible. Ramona, got caught running away. Should I put in a facility for troubled kids? Leona actually followed her to the facility and hid there for two months before they found her and they took her back home, the girls are just repeatedly picked up, put in the center return back to the hell. That was home a system failing them over over and over again. You'd like why would you do that? Why would you put them back like you're obviously running away from home for a reason? Like, I don't know if we can say about previously, protect the child, protective systems and staff but he obviously wasn't doing very well.

24:23 Well, you gonna realize that the way out was trying to or so. So she went upstairs to her mother's bedroom, lock the door and set the bedroom on fire. After that, they put her in a psychiatric hospital and someone at the hospital believed her. She did continue to attempt suicide, and she ended up staying in that hospital. She's old enough to be released, she's since healed, and she's actually healed enough to talk about this. But I mean it's so heartbreaking. That that's the only way she was able to get home, right? Yeah. Now, by 1970, Anthony's. Just answering to your high outside. He's a shy, skinny kid, it gets pretty bad grades. You just wasn't good at school.

25:11 He went at most days, you was just not exceptional and he lived in a home where nobody was paying attention. So he was getting apps that, you know, your basic English and math and like beans and like physical education, he would join like swim club or golf club didn't do very well. He did get, well, you can go Jess, which he played with his science teacher and that get continuous high school, but he could see you to try, and he was just never good at anything. Basketball football baseball. All. And then no one really understood. Why? But when we 17, he just quit.

25:51 Yep, he made his first girlfriend Twila, Austin shortly. After drop it out, he was 13 years old and a freshman. She lived in an area called the hill was considered to be upscale the time and they were just walking down the street from high school. Anthony was finishing his paperwork that said, he failed his junior year and he said, hi Twila and they just started hanging out. She actually liked the things and he was good at boxing. He was, she did it look like athletic police athletically. He's good chess. They'd hang out in Claudia's room when she wasn't home. They went to movies and she wasn't sure how but Anthony always had money for days. I was typical you know young relationship. Now this is 1977 anything's, a high school. Dropout Cleveland is a city on the decline. People are moving from the city in droves. The town's falling apart Twila, realized how he had all that money.

26:49 Which was that Anthony was a thief. He sold stolen goods on the street. He had a list of misdemeanors by the time he was 18 from being caught, he picked up a drinking habit, got arrested multiple times for drunk and disorderly conduct. He also stole from people's houses sold that too. Sometimes assaulting the homeowner got arrested for that too and he managed to avoid jail. Time for more of the more intense crimes and when he turned 18 he decided it was time to leave his mom's house. You'll find this to be a verb recurring fee when it comes to serial killers. What do you think he did? Next? He left his mom's house, did he go in joining the Army? You bet your bottom dollar?

27:38 You join the Army actually, he was intending on going to the Army and then he heard that the Marines were harder. So he decided to be a memory. Okay, yep. What's basic training? January, 24th 1978 at Parris Island, South Carolina and a month after his basic training started while I found out she's pregnant. They were both kind of happy about it and Julius L was born, August 1974 Anthony did very well in basic training. He was first in his class of 40, top marks and shooting great. A hand-to-hand combat became an electrician at Camp Lejeune and may of 1978 after getting his GED and studying electrical wiring, they moved him to Cherry Point North Carolina in 1979 and then in March 1980, who works for the 2nd Marine Our tract today, which is an aviation unit that supports the Marines during wartime. And I'm pretty solid that my dad did that during Vietnam, he fixed planes on base and Vietnam. I'm going to ask him about.

28:40 That was pretty cool. He's next move was to Camp Smedley Butler in Okinawa Japan. And while it's can he met Kim lost? Say she's a fellow officer and Anthony considers this to be the best relationship he's ever been. Now Anthony was emotionally. Stunted from his traumatic childhood to the point where like an active affection was the kind of thing that would bring out like, violence in him and can't help him to accept love and being treated. Well, They got married, 91 in a civil ceremony, back in the u.s. at the Craven County Courthouse in New Bern North Carolina. They moved to a small trailer park off base and that was where Anthony sustained.

29:29 A pretty life-changing injury. It's not what you think though. He's coming back home from a going away party for a fellow Marine. What was happening? Is that his sister Tressa and his daughter Julia had come down and They just they wanted to still give their respects o chem stayed with the sister and daughter and he just went to go say goodbye to his fellow Marine as he was driving back from that little bone away party. The car overheated and he lifted up the hood and he was kind of poking around and a hose blew off hitting him in the face so fast and he couldn't close his eyes, the injury caused to Second and third-degree Burns and split his eyes. And I got to tell you, I wanted to Google that but I don't want to know what that means.

30:20 I have to Google it but continue flying for three months and they weren't sure using there and gain his say when the injury happened his daughter, they like he just said them away. He's didn't one of them dealing with him while he was injured cam. Tried her best to help him, but he started picking up drinking a lot. She was actually worried. He's going to get discharged from the Marines, Marines, for alcoholism. So 1984 Anthony gets sent back to Camp Butler in Okinawa. Kevin Anthony only really got to live like a married. Couple for about two years and then they were sent separate places. And then in January of 1985 she filed for divorce. The day she left the mine.

31:09 Just the physical distance being listed for the divorce and Kim loss and actually died in California in 1988 and then Dust real accident. But she didn't really have any further contact with Anthony after the divorce. Now after their divorce, he also got discharged. He was finishing up his last bit of time and Camp Pendleton California. Like his son, the military was great, though. He got Awards all during the seven years, he's there Good Conduct medals with one star, a meritorious Master ticket, a sea service deployment ribbon, a certificate of commendation and two letters of appreciation.

31:50 He was promoted through his time in the military, he never got demoted, This local probably the highlight of his life. So unlike some serial killers, you actually go to like Army and Navy and stuff like that Marines. He was actually really good at it. And he enjoyed his times of the year. I imagine, like for some of the people we talked about last year, it was the first place that Anthony would have experienced order. Wyatt. You know, like when it's lights out in the barracks, it's lights out in the barracks, you know, there's those rules and there's, you know, and you only get punished when you actually Break The Rules. Not, you know, whenever your drill sergeant decides, it is one beat your face in really, that's a completely different. So in some ways, it's positive for some people, but he comes back to Cleveland and like this back to normal. Like many low-income areas in the u.s. in the 80s. Cleveland was ravaged by crack cocaine and for people who don't know a lot about drugs cocaine mumbling your smoke crack, you heat up and then inject directly into the bloodstream especially harmful because the speed in which it gets to your brain. People who start cocaine get high, but it can take some time to do a job and essentially

33:21 crackheads so fast that people are addicted to it. Just keep trying to get that same Rush that they got the first time they injected themselves. Now, before going into the Marines, Anthony been smoking weed drinking as a total shock to him, go to come back and see like the same street. So he used to walk when he was a kid that we're safe now, people just sitting out in the open you know, smoking crack can also spoken to sorry. Yeah, I forgot about that if you'd like I can heat it in the little spoon and then inject. It also sometimes smoke it but it's not good. It's what I'm going to say I feel like it's on par with like how heroin has been harming people and like the 2002. Yeah, yeah.

34:12 Sure difference is that crack is cheap. Because it gets cut down from the pure cocaine and so I'll let you can afford a lot of it. Whereas heroin cost a lot of money. So it's a different socio-economic bracket. You would have been in if you were doing heroin versus practical. We also learned during this time that crack was so addictive. That women would do anything who were strung out to get ahead. I was something he would later take advantage of but in the moment he was a jobless man with a seven-year-old kid.

34:52 Be left with her mom and a family that was still chaotic and terrified he drank every day. He moved back in with his mom on Page Avenue, where she stayed in the attic and he met other women, but none of those relationships were substantial or anyway. But now he liked it so he got angry. Now his sister Tressa, he's a little younger than him said that he came back from the Marines more serious and at the military made him, but I feel like we can kind of ascertain that Anthony had a bad streak before he went to the Marines. Yes, definitely. Well, you know I said he went moved to the attic, right? Twila and Julie were living in the Attic. And he kicked them out.

35:38 Oh, he's like you can't stay in the room with me. This is our room. We can't seem to. Let me just like drink and be sad. He actually started snorting cocaine at this time. He got arrested for domestic violence. And 1988 spent eight days in prison. That wasn't his only violent running. One time, his sister Tressa was in an argument with another girl in the neighborhood and I do trust is like in her teens and 29, year-old Anthony tells his other girl, like leave my sister alone and she kept talking smack and he's straight-up punch and teenager girl, a teenage girl in the face. Just straight knocked her out. Ridiculous.

36:21 By that point, he was already on track. And he approved more criminal offenses, disorderly conduct possession, public intoxication. Now things get worse for him in 1989. When he refused to let a woman who's dating the house. She was three months pregnant and her name was Mel. That sock wall. He bound her hands and feet with a tie and belt and gagged her. She would later tell the police that she thought she was going to die because she was losing sensation. And while her extremities for this Anthony was charged with kidnapping, rape and attempted grade. He pled guilty to attempted rapist is the lesser sentence and was given 15 years in prison.

37:06 Now, you think that's a great. Great. I always hear like great was too terrible in prison, apparently, not Anthony. He got along with the other inmates. He they kept like, getting him parole hearings and he didn't really understand what they wanted him to do. The same line kept getting written in his parole reports lack of significant program. And what that means is that he doesn't understand that he needs to do certain things within the prison program to Capital and they would have him like Fill out. These questionnaires to assess his feelings about his Prime and is not allowed in general, and some of them are going to reach you that are specifically poignant here. So it was he like, I feel, I think, you know, those kinds of questions and they haven't filled in says, I feel nothing at this time of my life. I suffer no ill feelings.

37:55 I failed to get myself out of trouble and the worst one. Most women just tell lies. so it seems in his head, he had blamed malbet for the fact that he's in prison, For the fact that you assaulted me and kidnap, you didn't let me leave the house, literally kidnap the pregnant lady and it's not her fault that you did that, but whatever not apparently. No, it's all her fault. He had one weird perk, this was that he was very serious about how people citizens. So apparently, some people say could name like Soul, it's a so wel L and he portrayed, he preferred selling for selling, So that's why I've just been saying it that way, I don't know the right way. Mostly double listening for a long time. I destroy names, so it's owl.

38:52 It's owl. So it sounds, he never got parole. You never really got the point and so Monday. June 20th, 2005, he gets released from the Lorraine correctional institute in Grafton Ohio. He is 46 years old and his sister Tressa went to pick him up. up with all of her children because she had like seven kids by now, to the mini mansion house, he grew up in with his family gone repossessed because nobody can pay the mortgage Everything moved in with his sister and a few other family members and the area called Slavic Village was nine kids, three adults.

39:34 He tried to make himself useful, like, cooking for people, and you play, like, Madden with all the little boy kids. It was nice, but he moved out a couple months later into his stepmothers house. Sir, Colonel Henderson cell, Segura was his biological father's third wife, Thomas L senior. Had died while he was in prison. He actually was 80 years old. He fell down the steps and 2003, but his death certificate also said that he had prostate cancer heart disease in a seizure disorder. So we're not claiming that they are not claiming the ball. Is what killed them? It's the fact that he had three major illnesses simultaneously at 18 years.

40:14 I mean, Thomas Thomas. L senior never really had anything to do with Claudia but apparently he had reached out. Out to Anthony at some point and they talk to each other while he was in prison. So Anthony, the other places said he didn't realize that his dad died but he actually in that a Right up the questionnaire. He wrote very kindly about his father which I thought was very surprising considering that he didn't have any contact with his dad until he was in his 40s. All right? Now that's a Grandma's house.

40:56 He was depressed because he got some letters that said that he had a registered sex offender. Which made him one of twelve, offenders in a 5-mile radius. And honestly, he was the boat, pretty. Humiliated by it. He thought it was gonna get in the way of him getting a good job and he was filing all these job applications and nobody was responding and then get a job as a prep cook at Jacobs Field. Which is where the Cleveland Indians played. Is a really good job actually. And so, in the middle of the the summer season, he gets a letter August 2005 saying that he needs to go through a sexual predator evaluation as part of being monitored for being a sex offender, which I didn't realize they do in Ohio. And I kind of think it's a great idea that everywhere, actually, not that.

41:44 I didn't realize you had to check in every couple years. Oh yeah. Oh yes, you Brittany. Yo, let me tell you, I've heard the I just heard stories. Of like you know section sex offenders like not checking in for a while and like the states. They don't they don't check up on them. Yeah, that's what I heard too. I was like, people just do what they want. Yeah, they don't like they then they just go and live like normal lives when, you know, the reason why you're like register as a sex offender it, so you can't live a normal, damn life. It's like so people know what you've done and it's a away from you. Well, this analysis goes the word. It goes as wrong as it could possibly be. Go, he shows up for this meaning, September 1st 2005. They immediately tell him this records going to be part of a public evaluation.

42:40 It'll be public. Like, if anybody looks you up, they will see this interview. So, of course, as they ask you to he, as I asked him questions, he decides. I'm not going to be honest about anything. Okay. He told them he grew up in a crowd of single-parent. Home said he had a lot of friends but then he was bullied and teased. He of course left out that he was a sexually violent child and that he and his nephews watched and also raped their siblings and cousins. He told the therapist he was never exposed to violence in his home or school with that. He just had a bad time. Now, it was true that he had never been suspended in school and he never been fired from any job. He told the therapist that he had admitted to the charge because he didn't think he had a good defense, you didn't want a longer sentence, and when they interviewed his public defender, James McDonald, the man was quoted. As saying all I can tell you is, I remember nothing about represent, so he Told the therapist that you've been alcohol before jail for that, he hadn't had a drink in 50 years when they discussed Stacks, he just straight up lot saying, Twila was his first.

43:59 He did tell the people that he engaged in prostitution while abroad in the Marines and he did look at porn to the analysts. Looked over this interview, he seemed like a regular dude who just got a bad break on a rape case. And since the u.s. does have an issue with coercing, innocent people to admit to crimes, they didn't do the analyst wrote and is my opinion that would reasonable professional professional certainty, that mr. Self is not currently present. The following risk factors most significantly correlated sexual offense recidivism. Now, here's a fun fact for you, that I learned because I made a video Tick-Tock and I was very angry, but the rate at which sexual offenders reoffend is roughly 22%. So, about one in 500, people who have committed violent offenses about 36% and here's the worst one. People who go to jail for any reason have a 40 6.45. Point, six percent, likelihood of reoffending and suffering. That's you have horrible recidivism rates in this country.

45:17 Our prison system. Does nothing to actually help people and prepare them for life out of prison. This is so true that that just reminds me of a joke. Like it's not, it's a joke but it's not a joke, which is joke. It's like, you know, someone going to prison and then they went right back to prison like a few months later for doing the exact goddamn thing. Yeah, that's one of the things from the TV show Orange is the New Black that they really got, right? When Casey got out of prison and she was back like, two months later and she remember in the show, she was just like, you know, I didn't have anywhere to stay, like I was sleeping on the floor with like 10 other people like it's just snow. Honestly, honestly Anthony had more than most and a lot of people who get jail, like he had a lot more help and people. Yeah, he had a lot more help.

46:06 Yeah. Well, his job, with the Cleveland Indians ends, October 2nd, 2005. He gets another job at a packing plant. His next big job is doing molding injection at a custom. River. I think I made a mistake in my own notes. Buddies is like molding injections, at a custom shop, in March of 2006. The union job, we make good money and especially that was like right before the recession hit leave as Around town. He was known as a friendly guy. You go drinking with you but nobody ever got close to. He would entertain people at the bar with Chad about being a marine. His time in prison food storage travel in the world.

46:48 He did make one friend, the owner of a convenience store named Sam Taya. This owner had been pretty kind to his parents Taylor was from Jerusalem and he had a rough time as a foreigner in the area and the South had taken care of him and he returned the favor. And then he gave up a strange Vibe of being both serious and intimidating, but also fine. So when people threatened Taya after, he had recorded, somebody selling drugs, to the store, Anthony Captain died out. And kind of a Riff Raff. Moved elsewhere in that could be in stores. Where he met the next and last significant relationship. Laura Fraser.

47:32 Glory was an attitude got into a lot of trouble with the law based on her addictions. She's 37 and had four kids, who were all with her mother, because her time in prison, she was turning tricks for crack. When Anthony saw her holding a brown bag with beer and he offered her something better than here. And so, this being a normal like John and escort relationship, the two of them realize that they like each other. And they ended up just sitting around having drinks. Eating some Chinese food. They went to his house, the Stepmom was in and out of the hospital and so Anthony was currently living on the first floor at that point and they start kind of living together almost right away. Now when you're in prison for a long time you don't get access to the internet.

48:24 I know. Now some prisoners have access to the internet but not back. How about that? They got access to the internet and cell phones and TVs. And some of that you got to be in good behaviour for sure. Yeah but Anthony got home, he realized that the internet was the incident. Internet wasn't a thing when he went to prison. He made an account on certain alternative sex websites. Where he was free to talk to people about these dark fantasy success. He he wrote himself as a dominant looking for a submissive. He was active on Black Planet, both places, he said he was single.

49:05 And he kept telling Lori, he wanted to bring another woman into the bedroom. Lori was like, all right? Now things are going well for you, Anthony, and this is the year that people start noticing an odd smell 2006 Laurie, brought it up to him first, and he told her it was his stepmom at this point. He had moved up to the third floor and there was another family on the second floor and his mom was on the first, so he was blaming it on her being my bed, rest? Yeah. Then the, this, the middle family assumed that it was an animal that had crawled up under the house and died. He told his nephews, who came to visit that the basement Florida? The neighbors, blamed it on Race, sausage, that was next door. The City Health Department is getting complaints non-stop like somebody even said to the police. It smells like there's a dead body on this block. Oh, God.

49:55 Now Renee cash and inherited, kind of the business from her family and she ran it with her siblings and she was, they were running Ray sausage, so the health department required them to pretty much rip up the ground in front of the plant and change out all of the greats. it's where the leftovers and blood and stuff. One cost the cost, the company thirty thousand dollars, God and nothing changed. The the health department was constantly checking the shop for cleanliness, nothing fat when I was ever found and that's of course because it wasn't raised sausage. Smoke was the only started when Ray and when Lori and Anthony were on the Rocks. So boring.

50:42 It was always a crack at it but she had a rule. We can't be together if you use crack too. And Anthony hit it from her and she realized something was wrong and slowly dealers and other people would show up to the house at random times, they started fighting over, who was getting one from which dealer, who was using more, who was spending more of their money. Those arguments within the violent fights between the couple By June of 2006, Anthony doesn't even have the money to pay for a stepmother. Like Rank and Sabrina was actually trying to kick him out because she realized he was using drugs.

51:22 The first of the major breakups happened shortly after that when Anthony got three thousand dollars from his tax return and Lori came home to a house party with kids as young as 12 at right, 15 kids were as young as 15 all over the house, drinking doing drugs. Oh my God, people in the house. Like people to go are like okay. She said one point there were like kids down behind the furnace like Like in up. Mhm. And then like, she's trying to look for Anthony. He will like, he's not here and so she saw it like, it was a very public like humiliation.

52:03 She went back to her sister's place. You, she's really upset. This was start, their on-again off-again status that went on for quite some time. They would go back to date. They start fighting again. Anthony tell her to leave. The family on the second floor where the prompt is. So it's middle of 2006. Palm Bay is go downstairs and they see a piece of shirt tied to one of their cars and for people who didn't grow up in the hood, this is a sign that drugs are being sold at the property where the house where the car is the pompey's are like, you know what, I have had enough and they move out leaving his stepmother on the first floor, and him on the third Now, winter of 2007.

52:53 So just after the season turn Anthony suffers a heart attack and he doesn't realize that he just realizes that he's sick. He doesn't go to the VA for like three weeks. And by the time, they look at him, that he suffered major heart damage, He also was dealing with atrial fibrillation, which is when your heart randomly just speeds up for no reason. It took until February 26. Well, I'm not even at by February 26. They thought he was dying. Man's it up giving him a temporary pacemaker and it actually worked, but they weren't sure that the pacemaker was going to stop defibrillation. They told him he was going to need therapy, but they weren't going to pay for it because that's how the VA treats veterans and the bill for the multiple pacemakers and everything.

53:45 Was two hundred thousand dollars and we're God, mmm? What she obviously didn't have. He never went to therapy for his heart. He ended up having another small attack at the machine is job, and he had to quit. Now, he and Lori are on that. She would disappear for days, on end, for kids won't even know where she was, and they would call him and be like, where's mom? And then he would be mad at her when she came back and you be like, yo, your kids are calling me crying. Like, what are you doing? Yeah, she's like mind your business. Well, it's kind of my business now, because your kids are, like, involving me in this.

54:25 I know, I know, You start using again, despite the fact that the man has a heart condition and should not be doing any sort of major drugs. And these first victim was May of 2007. She went missing on Mother's Day, my name is Crystal Dozier Christmas. I knew that his mommy's drugs and he even reported the fact that she went to Anthony sowell's house to score, but the police never filed a report and never checked campus house. June of 2007. He ramps up in Cleveland, the bad smell start. Again people call the health department over. Another nothing comes from it.

55:14 Now that same month Sam Taya, has that corner store on the Block, one of his employees, says, like, yo, there's something nasty out in the dumpster. So, He goes out there and he sees these like two packages, they like wrapped up in plastic so you can't tell what they are but there's like it smells awful like death and there's flies around there and then he's just like I don't have time for this right now. I'll check it later. Get I'll take a check it later later.

55:54 That day, the dump trucks take it away. It's never thought about it now, the rest of 2007, nothing else happens. But in early 2008, Lori comes home and finds the like the entire third floor. Apartment. Covered in blood like walls floor bed. He had tried to clean it up some and he just told her that someone had tried to Rob him and they got into a fight with a person when they're gone. Yeah. Gone. Huh, in February? She checks on Anthony again. He has a neck wound, so deep. You can see the like the white meat his neck. He told her he'd been attacked while he was scrapping an abandoned house.

56:36 Now, here's the thing. Like, I list these in here as the victims, that we know what it is, considering the bad smell started in 2006, and he had multiple events like this, that we don't have any correlation to a missing person. There is the belief that he had more victims. And that these were people who fought back. And either, they were rape victims who never told on him or these are people, he murdered and he just supposed of them in other ways like the dumpster. A month later.

57:19 March now, Lori's like you gets attacked again this time near Woodland Hills Park Lori doesn't really have time to focus on him to there's a warrant out for her arrest. She gets caught March 6, 2008 and ends up having the battle with the courts until August of 2008. Strangely enough go Anthony supports her the whole way testifies for her is just like she's one of a person, you know she really helped me when I got out of prison, yada yada yada. So she ends up not going to jail. But she didn't go back to you. He was very upset, he backed up all of her stuff and she like dropped it off at a friend's house. And by the time she got, when she went to the friend's house, she opened the bag and everything was cut, cut up into pieces, honey.

58:05 I think it's worry broke up with him because she heard that while she was in like, can do, he was having women over the house and he was women who he murdered, she know about that part yet, but yet she's you'll find out. This week. Well, the second victim was to show Nicole over and she was last seen May 21st 2008. Almost all of Anthony's victims. It's the same Emma. They come from broken homes. Have, horrible lives that lead to drug addiction criminal prosecution, which make them people that no one is really looking after Shauna was the same day. She had a domestic violence charge with her ex she was part of a work release program and then she just disappeared and the courts. Just decided but oh, she must have just skipped and she's gone.

58:54 All they know is that at some point, she left work, she met Anthony went to his house and never came out. His third victim was respond to what was Sean along. She was a Cleveland native with a long history of abuse drug abuse drug convictions. She had stopped returning her family's called and may of 2008 but she was living with a boyfriend and obviously of 2008. Her boyfriend obviously, didn't give too much of a damn because all they did was make up flyers and put them all around the neighborhood. She was never officially filed as a missing person.

59:35 Wow. Not Anthony kidnapped and failed to kill the Nessa gay and September of 2008. She met him on the street. Sometime in August that you were familiar with each other. We get high together from time to time, but he never made a move to her. And so he invited her to his house on his birthday. August 19th. He attacked him in the home and tried to choke her with an extension cord. So that he could rape her and that's was able to fight him off. She never spoke about this to anybody until he was arrested because she didn't believe that. Anybody would believe her. She would later tell detectives that the same night. She was attacked. She saw a decapitated head that was his Emma, choke them.

1:00:22 Rape them, Hilda, His fourth victim was Michelle Mason missing in October of 2008, just like the Shonda, Michelle's family, pepper, the neighborhood photos. They knew that she'd been hanging out with Anthony and they didn't want her to be near him, her parents even mentioned to the cops. This man that she's hanging out with his infected sex offender, but they told the family that this wasn't enough evidence to get a search. Sorry. Yeah. Well, that's number five, Tommy Carmichael. Her parents realized she was missing in November of 2008, which disclose at responding to them and she showed she wasn't even from Cleveland. But that they knew that she was there. So they cross they come to Cleveland. They show up at the Warrenville police station on November 2008. They ask you.

1:01:16 They could submit a part A submitting a couple missing persons report for some reason, they don't do it. And so the family starts their own search for her people on the Block say, like yo, we saw her around Imperial street which is the street where Anthony lived. Her mom goes to try and follow a report at the fourth district station which covers Imperial street. And they won't take a report. Cleveland Police deny this behemoth. Her mother, find your missing car. You're the corner of 118th Street and Ken's New Street which is about a 10-minute walk to Anthony sowell's house.

1:01:57 Sighing. Islam goes back to the 4th District, and it's just like she was obviously in your District, her cars here, like, help us out, and the fourth district police, tell her no go back to Warren's. Bill filed, a missing persons report there because you said, that's where she was living, but she was here, she ended up missing here. So when y'all do the search here, right? Well, Warren's will take the report, but this time so much time has passed. past that like you're starting a week behind when people go missing, you got 24 hours to do something to find people, like 24 hours or 48 hours and you got you're definitely behind on that and it's sorry. No, you're fine.

1:02:46 I was going to say it's just funny, like yeah. All these people that are coming like hey my family member is missing and it just happens to be around the same area, right? No one's making a issue that like women are going missing left and right specifically around here you'll Street yeah. Looking like a several block radius, but regardless, just like the other women time passes, Sonya's, forgotten. Now, Gladys Wade, would be the second woman who survived her encounter with Anthony? That we know of that happened. December of 2008, lot of was a hardcore crack addict who had actually dropped in a college. Just before she was done.

1:03:30 Like the two months before she was finished, because she was so addicted to drugs. That's what it does to you man. Like there's some stuff not even once not even once. No heroin no crack will cocaine. No Molly drugs. But you can like have horrible side effects of First time you take them not even once. Yeah December 8. 2008 she'd actually just gotten out of County Jail, her and her boyfriend got in trouble for attacking the Apartments maintenance, man. Now Gladys had a sister. Her sister was Twyla. And so after she gets out of jail, she goes to visit to Iowa, that's the mother of Anthony's child. She stopped at the corner store on Imperial and 123rd Street. And that's where she met Anthony. He offered to buy her a beer.

1:04:22 She was like, no thanks. And as he was leaving the area, he grabbed her from behind a Chokehold cutting off her hair, she passed out and took her into the house. As soon as she woke up she started screaming as Anthony is like yelling at her. Take off her clothes she like Gladys fought back viciously. The two of them falling down like the first flight of stairs from the third to the second floor. During the encounter her hand goes through a glass, pane causing a laceration in her hand. There's blood everywhere, they fall down another flight of steps before, Anthony, it's just like this is too much. She runs across the street to the pizza place. They call the police.

1:05:04 They didn't want her to be in the building because she was like just bleeding everywhere. Yeah. The police, she overhears Anthony telling neighbors that some woman had tried to Rob him and he hit her and that's why there's blood in the snow. Gladys takes off running into the night, so she finds another set of cops and they get her Nancy, they take her testimony that night. They take Anthony hands cuffed Well, here was that he had actually had succeeded in doing either. There was a record. He raped somebody in the past. Yeah but he can only drug her off the street to so it wasn't you're not wrong but he was removed based on he was released based on something called a straight and relief. and honestly Gladys had never heard of that ever happening before, but it is a political thing where Essentially.

1:06:10 It was a 24-hour that you have 24 hours to get the charges together or they release the criminal. This was something that only existed in Cleveland in the 90s and like the early 2000s and the problem was with the straight releases that criminals will use aliases, which hindered the indictment process, they slide and it took the police too long. Like they missed the 24 hour window and the person will not release. That's exactly what happened here. When they failed to be able to come up with enough evidence to prove that, like it was he said, see, like he said, she said they released him on December 10th.

1:06:51 They said, Gladys wasn't a credible Witness. But the number six is Tim Smith. She went by the name Candy on the street. What messing January 17th 2009? She lives with her dad and actually, they were really close. She gone out for a night of like fun and she never came home. Her dad, Donald Smith like absolutely love the crap out of his daughter, but she developed a drug problem in college. She actually worked Street around Imperial and she went missing while she was working. Again. He put out a reward for 500 dollars for information for his daughter, but he never contacted Cleveland police because he didn't believe in their ability to help him find his daughter. I mean you wrong there but yeah there's a law in kidnappings after this probably because of the fight we thought us and the subsequent arrest.

1:07:49 So I think he was trying to be a little bit more Discerning but either way, no one goes missing until again until April. That tiny dots escaped in April and Imelda Hunter and Nancy Cobbs both disappeared in April. So things are ramping up now. Tanya Das have been an ex of Anthony's before he dated Lori and I guess she had fixed in her head that she was gonna get him back. So they started like being, you know, nice to each other. Can she come see him in the hole? April 21st. Everything's gone. Cool. They smoked they watch the game and then just one moment. When time is not paying attention he's straight up like knocks her down on the bed, she described it as like Jacqueline high and she opted to comply instead of fight and the following morning she told him she had to go check on her granddaughter and let her go. Tanya never told the police because she was worried that she get arrested because they both been smoking. Crack it right there.

1:08:53 And tone that is. Hey, this guy's all to me. Last time, Imelda country was seen was a few days before. Tanya's tack on April 18. Imelda was also an addict and she had an adult son who went to all her old Hangouts and her that she had been at the houses across the street, from the pizza place on Imperial. Similar to Kim Smith, dad, Imelda tried to find his mom on his own, never filed. A police report because He was just like screw thoughts his fan him and the rest of the family kind of peppered the neighborhood, the Flyers about amalga. Now here's the one that really like kind of wow I feel bad about this foot. Tanya had a best friend.

1:09:38 Her best friend was Nancy Cobb. and so, after the assault that takes place on April 21st, Tanya tells Nancy that Anthony raped her and she's just like, you know, it was crazy. Nancy just assumes that maybe he just got too high, he freaked out and like his look, real aggressive during sex. Whatever Nancy goes, missing, April 29th, 2009. This her friend, like I don't know, maybe report this to the police or me. Well, not only did Nancy's family report her to the police. Nancy story was on the news but nobody had any idea where she was that made the game seven and eight. The next tax happened, about two months ago. June of 2009.

1:10:37 Pick the ninth Alicia forts in, just like all of our other victims troubled past starting in adolescence, she went missing, just after visiting, the Imperial Corner Store, Anthony's block, her mother Inez, reported her, missing to the East Cleveland police, and they gave her a list of morgues hospitals and other police departments to go. Call boy, no. I thought you would find that one. Interesting. What the fuck? We're Not Gonna file. A missing persons report. Go look for your junkie daughter and all the mortise and Tenon. Yes. Go find her no more because she's pretty, she probably is God. That's oh my God.

1:11:20 Yeah, she called them all, but no one. There was no delay. So it just vanished. Victim time was Janice web another. She was actually a former addict trying to get her life straight. She'd been going to AA for a couple months. But she met Anthony, she started using again even though she was back on track and her family has kind of separated themselves from her. She still called them every single day. So her sister, Audrey realized something was wrong, when she didn't hear from Janice by June 2nd. Audrey found a missing persons report. Art, and she did the same thing as everybody else. She started putting up fliers around her around Anthony's house.

1:12:06 Victim, 11 was Diane Turner. She went missing in September of 2009. Diane also started traveling with drugs. She was epileptic. She had struggled with her mental health, she spent her childhood and adult life and out of the system, she didn't have a lot of family. And so, even though people on the street noticed she was gone, no one ever found a missing person report for Diane either. Now Anthony is disposing of these remains of all of these victims in around his house and it's not like people didn't say anything. Like, summer 2009, there was a handyman named James, Martin, who did some work, like, to another house on the Block. And he was just like, it smells like dead people here.

1:12:47 Pretty much anybody who came around there, notice this just permeating set of death. But the next two attacks would be the things that would get Hannah. So, September 22nd 2009, it's pretty cloudy Tuesday. The tundra, Billups remembers that she was in the middle of a pretty bad crack habit. She knew Anthony, because he helped her score, she had been there with victim. Number 11 Diana and Nancy called But because Anthony had remains on the third floor, they were now hanging out on the second floor. He told her his room, his living space was too dirty didn't want to bring a woman there.

1:13:34 So, the tiger had heard around the block that there was an accusation that he was the rapist. And so, she was like, yo, what's up with this? All these girls are saying, you did weird stuff to them and Anthony responds by attacking her and trying to rape her. Oh my fucking God. Come on. It's like well, you know, they're not wrong. She actually noticed him pulling away extension cord, out of the wall and he choked her until she passed out afterwards. She said he behaved normal. He apologized for ripping up her sweater and she was with a promise that if she came back. The next day, he gave her 50 dollars for a t-shirt, she made it across the street to a restaurant called by a man named place at Beth. She started like sobbing as soon as she walked to the restaurant door.

1:14:23 She told the owner Anthony tried to kill her and that she played dead to get him to leave her be. She went to the ER reported that she'd been assaulted and raped. She talked to a counselor And the counselor there said, yeah, you're like the fifth woman to tell us that Anthony Sowell. Rach, you done. I'm fucking done. Ooh, pretty. I told you. If you frustrated, they tell you what what what do you what do you? What do you mean? What do you mean? Well the problem is for some of these women who are kind of transient By the time the process of the time like for the tundra, it was weeks before anybody from the sex crimes unit reached out to her. And there was a detective whose name was Durst, who did take the tundra seriously.

1:15:15 But he had to then go do the legwork and try and track down other people and get interviews and evidence. So that goes well into October. The final attack that I think really like a lot like these two between like September and October that happened are the things that ultimately caused his demise. So while detective Durst is working the case pretty much the meantime. 51 year old, Sean Morris is salted by Anthony to October 20th. 2009 she'd been out kind of have a you know, day party and getting high during again she stood at the bus stop when Anthony saw her She knew he had connections to drugs, and that's all she really wanted for that. She wanted to score.

1:15:59 So they had a pretty regular moment, getting high Sean, went home and as she was going to get on the bus, she realized that she had left her identification at Anthony's house. If she went back. When she went back into the house and ran upstairs, that's when he attacked her, he told her if she tried to scream or run, he would kill her. She says she remembers those thought, being very violent, but she screamed for help. He ran to another room to start closing the windows and left one window in his room where the attack was happening open. And which Sean naked. Climbs out the window on the third floor. Yep, Anthony comes around. It's like, oh no.

1:16:43 And he tries to grab her to pull her back in and she's straight up. Let's go. Falling three floors three stories to the ground breaks, both her hands eight. Ribs, fractured her skull, but she is alive. Okay, now one of us that bastard's employees is like I just saw a lady fall out of a building Right across the street from me, right? Exact place. That is just like I am sick and tired of what is going on with the women and Anthony foul so he heads over. To the alley. And he sees Anthony down there trying to pick up shot Sean. It's just kind of, like, incapable of moving, just screaming. Help other people have come out of their houses and they are filming this interaction.

1:17:28 Somebody ends up giving her their shirt to cover her up. And he tries to say that she's his wife and he need to bring her back inside that she had. Fallen out of balcony, the paramedics came and by that time she had passed out, he tells them. I'm her wife, they let him ride. and the ambulance now here's the thing Sean was unfortunately she was married and that person was not a right. It's a show he felt like my husband's going to find out that I was caught naked with a string. So she just told them that they were getting high she dropped her keys golf about only problem is the balcony wasn't on the same side of the alley and the police were real suspicious but both Anthony and Sean said it was an accident.

1:18:19 So please for like are you sure it was an accident? And she's like, yep. Yep. Yep, so they could really do anything because nobody reported a crime so as he thinks he's safe, but let's hundreds case makes it to the department and they filed charges against him on October 28th. Nine, they sign a warrant to check his house on October 29th at six pm 13 SWAT members show up to raid his home. Now. This is just for the rape of the tundra. The SWAT team walk in and they're just like this place smells awful. So the team breaks with like, splits up a team, goes down to the basement. They're open all the doors on the first floor.

1:19:01 Second floor, third floor, third floor, there is a locked door, the breach, the door. And there are the bodies of Tunisia for Stephen and Diane tartar in the basement. At the same time officers, find freshly, move dirt which is Genesis Webster means they stopped the search, leave the house and the change, the warrant pretty much they contact the Age to get a new war. Screw the rape charge murder and they contacted the court, Anthony's, not in the house of business. But they're recovering bodies everywhere. One of Anthony's neighbors goes and tells his sister truss up. That look police are in front of Anthony's house. And as she walks in, she finds Anthony combo sitting on Tresses couch.

1:19:51 And she's like, you got to go back and talk to them, like they're saying that they found a body upstairs, and he only says two things on the right there, that girl made me do it and it's all going to come out now. when they pulled up though, he asked, he's like, take me back and so she did When the neighbor got home, she just straight-up wanted to the police and was like, the man you're looking for is that his sister's house? He admitted to us. That he did it. Now as soon as Anthony got back to trust his house, he took off running. He was staying in abandoned houses. They put a 12 thousand dollar bounty on his head Crimestoppers.

1:20:39 Friday, October 30th 2009, they bring in like a whole like forensic team, who find the remains in the property, he had made very little attempt to hide what he was doing. Most of them were shot in the backyard, not buried, more than 24 inches. Which did not hide them or the scent. She Crystal Crystal Dozier was found with a piece of cloth wrapped around her neck, her wrists and ankles were bound with wire tying. A Carmichael was discovered in a shallow backyard, Grant electrical cord around her neck and that's a hunter was there as well. A strap from her purse. Since around her growth Michelle Mason was partially covered in the backyard by dirt and blankets and plastic garbage bags. It even bother bury her like Crystal. She'd also been strangled with cloth. Tim Smith who hadn't even been reported missing was the last of the bodies.

1:21:29 We found the backyard naked from the waist down wrapped in a blanket and clear plastic bags. She was also tied with strips of gall to show in a Culver was found and the crawl space in the front sitting room which is the same SWAT place. Where SWAT team member Richard Butler, found selicia Fortson Nancy cobs and Diane toner. So Sean is necklace fractured and she was bound with moderate growth. Nancy. Nancy was determined to be the fourth body. She had been strangled then close in five layers of black plastic bags and wrapped in a comforter. A 36-inch shoelace and 12 inch long. Sock were wrapped around her neck, and her wrists were bound with other shoe laces, Janice web and the Shonda long were also found in the basement.

1:22:19 Anthony managed to hide until Halloween. So two days And the reason why he came out of hiding was cussing, you need to get high, and a man by the name of Joe Beale wasn't cost them walking around like a skeleton. And he saw Anthony and he called it, he didn't, he did get that twelve thousand dollars as well. Say he got his money. Damn, right. He got that 12 Grand Anthony tried to play it off. When the police arrived, they didn't have a picture because I guess cops didn't have cell phones like that at the time he wasn't late 2009.

1:22:59 You had so, come on. Yeah, I don't know, but they didn't have a picture of who they were looking for. but that didn't really matter with the cops, they were just like this guy's wanted and that guy thinks you look like the guy and then you try to play it off like he was a druggie and the cops had already like talk to him the night before. They bring out a fingerprint scanner and he's just like, never mind. It's me. I did it. He's 50 years old, they said it's bonded. Five million dollars owed. This is good. No, but damn good.

1:23:40 I take his lawyers. Almost two years to go through the thousands upon thousands of hours of CCTV, footage of Anthony's comings and goings in the area as well as all the Cements and records and charges against him. He's Charles started on June 6, 2011, he was charged with 11 counts of aggravated murder and seventy four counts of rape, kidnapping tampering with evidence and abuse of a corpse he plead guilty by reason of insanity. But during the trial, he just changed it to not guilty. Trout took about a month, July 22nd 2011. He's found guilty of all, but two counts. The jury reconvene on August 10 2011 and they recommended the death penalty. Two days later, it was upheld by the judge. and September 14th, Anthony was put on death row, at the chili cook-off, Correctional Institution, which is when we find our next flaw in the system, is lawyers filed an appeal, the Supreme Court of Ohio because his execution was scheduled for October 29th, the following year, okay, he had one year there were not going to be 20 years on death row and Ohio, apparently No, they didn't get an appeal but they did get a stay of execution. She just didn't kill next year.

1:24:59 Why not? They managed to push it off 2013. He gets new lawyers. Who say that he didn't get a fair trial because the media coverage, but his previous lawyer suck, and they had an issue with the jury being chosen. When the court was closed from the public, these motions went on for a while, but in 2016, that appeal was rejected, May 2017. He appealed to the US Supreme Court, they denied to hear the case saying that Ohio had done its job properly. February 2018, the Ohio Supreme Court, denied a third appearance, He'll may have 20/20 was denied again. Pretty much through abusing the appeals process and he sells example to extend his life, an extra decade. He died.

1:25:40 February 2021 and the turmoil. Oh, just last year. Yep. That Imperial Avenue house was demolished in 2011 on July, 16th 2021, it began building what they call The Garden of eleven Angels. It was dedicated on my birthday. November 6 2021. Hey for the first time and 2001 the five women who escaped Anthony told their stories and episode of snapped on oxygen on July 24th 2021. Ray sausage still struggling to stay in business, obviously was proven that the family's business was not the reason for the smell but that did negatively impact their business for quite some time.

1:26:23 All right. Did he have Cleveland agreed to pay six of the 11 families, 1 million dollars due to botched investigations or feasible investigate the disappearance It's what about like? What about? Like the hospital and leave the the person who said, oh yeah, yeah, five other people who came here in like, wait. So that's not the hospital's called there. But all the hospital can do is take the rape kit, reports the police. The problem is, you've got somebody who's a junkie who's scared, they're going to be arrested if they talk to cops. So, by the time, the cops get there, the woman's though. And so now they just have this report. And this woman, they can't find And that well, I'm going to talk about like part of why.

1:27:08 This is the problem and give me mod, like two minutes to grandstand. I know you've been looking for a while, but I painstakingly brought up the strictest history because it is important to ask you to decide that's the story. Socially, we have decided that some people don't deserve empathy, they deserve less caring, less respect. And those people are always the victims of man, like Gary Ridgway and Samuel, little and Anthony sell. A lot of times people ask me how our serial killer so successful. And I have So many times in the last year that serial killers are not so brilliant class of criminal, they are exploiting a loophole in our justice system. A blindness that our system possesses and like until we stop ranking in filing. Human value like this, we're going to see crimes like this.

1:27:51 Persist, I also think this is why I am so hard on Cops in these pods fast because when a community does not have faith in the justice system, they don't use it. Too, many of his victims did not have faith in the Cleveland Police Department, and because they didn't have that Faith police were unaware, that they had a serial killer on their hands. It's all checks, and balances, and for the USA, everything is out of balance, and it has been now for decades. This is why we have the protest for unjust shootings and brutality and I feel it really feel like police officers, feel like everybody's ganging up on their profession right now, but like we want to be protected, we want to be able to call you. We want to believe that somewhere out there. When bad things happen, the bad guys get caught. That's the satisfaction of this podcast. You know that when you leave the episode, I have told you that Justice was done.

1:28:44 It may have been delayed but it happened. I wish there were more cases where I could say, the bad guy gets got it doesn't take 10. 20 years for it to happen. Way we work on that as if we stopped our victims away because they aren't perfect people and we got to stop letting Predators go because they are nice, guys. But, you know, that's my grandstanding for the day I'm done. yeah, got a lot of feelings about I mean, what's your right though? You're like everything. You said absolutely correct? Like you stand wonder what's behind that. Link. If the, if the justice system worked in that Community then they would have called him like the first woman who report but specifically chose women who were addicts, and I don't know if it was as purposeful as say Gary Ridgway or Sam, Littles was but People who are streetwalkers or doing sex work or on drugs, should be able to report that a crime has happened to them and have some reasonable expectation. That will be taken.

1:29:57 Seriously, that this is not what they deserve. Yeah. Because they aren't living the life that we approve to be. You know, I deal in the US and that just reminds me of the Green River Killer like, like seriously? Yeah. Great storytelling is always thank you. Well, what do we have today in our paranormal palette? Because that was a lot. Okay? This one you'll find enjoyable. Okay, okay, okay.

1:30:37 So I talked about like two men last year that had a knack for finding frauds in the spiritualism community and exposing them, where the trial license that they were. Are we talking about more magic people, maybe? What magician hates ghosts, ghosts people mediums. Now, I wouldn't. Okay. So it's, this is not magicians that he kills people today. So, the two people I'm talking about, you know, the to Harry's Harry Harry, Houdini? Yeah, your price. And it occurred to me that I didn't know entirely well into like holding a seance and or what was considered a seance or honestly? Like, I've seen people just be like, all right, we're just sitting together, chilling.

1:31:31 And then I've seen other situations where it's like, super elaborate, right? Yes. So, I'm like, well, who's right here? Do I need like, 57 candles and I need to, like, nobody intentions as I'm lighting them. Do I need a fancy table? Do I need a Ouija board? I got on. Oh yeah. So I wrote this down, I wrote it down. So I gotta say, okay, so demons your boy went on a search if they got to tell you about so seances today. Hey, are you like famous ones? So what I'm going to do is go over like what I say or else is what's considered Nerd a seance. There are some famous ones that I read about. I'm probably not gonna go to in deep like in depth with them because there's so much going into. What's a seance is and what it goes. Almost seances.

1:32:33 So what are we contacted? We contacted ghost. Some people do. Some people do also, I have this real like Wonder because you know, I love my TV show about the cop and the lady. Amy Allan. It's not that files, you know? I love my dad files. Yeah. Okay, NEC stuff. This not just like judeo Christian. She she sees like some ancient things sometimes I'm like, can you talk to those things I just thought, you know, like, they don't want to talk to us, there's not. Not right. Maybe we don't want to talk to us. They're like ancient being. So like just been walking the Earth for like Millennia and they're like, can y'all just go somewhere, please, you're so beneath me. No, that's exactly what they're like. They're like little ants want to talk to me go away. Oh God.

1:33:37 So if you're new to this end of the podcast, deep dark recesses of the podcast or to the Paranormal things, you're probably like, well, you know, WTF is a seance. Well, I got the answer for you right here. And according to many of my sources today, See aren't at? It's like the basic or is basically like an attempt to communicate with the dead in the afterlife, that's that's it. So the word Seance come originates from France and it means to sit or a session. So basically what it's a on, says you're sitting having a session trying to do it.

1:34:26 I mean I don't say anybody could do it. Definitely. If you're like sensitive or like your if you know your medium mediums are mediums. Are the main people who hold sayings or who lead this Seance. See that's another thing I have seen people who are not mediums Do this, like how do you hold the commune with the spirits? Like how dangerous try just do it. Okay, the I'll make the rules. I know and no need to hook and she's do I, but people, if he would do these things, oh God.

1:35:16 So, in the 19th century English, the word Seance referred to a meeting, a people trying to receive spiritual istic messages. So, so the meaning of It, kind of like, stay the same, but like, so you're not talking to they don't, they don't include the afterlife, they just include that they want spiritualists acknowledges. So, It's implied, it's implied, but it's not like, okay. That's so weird to me. So yeah, this was just like a meeting of people get together and talk about weird stuff D&D night for us. I know right baby.

1:36:04 Basically that's like deity for us. So the Seance always has a medium. There's always a medium and there. They are there to basically just channeled the spirit here and, you know, have helped it communicate with people. That's something I would never do anyway. Even if I had the ability, you don't get to take control of my body? I don't know, boys. So normally seances are attended by people who want to contact a loved one or friend say they were like, I don't know, someone who knew this person. And hey, I remember that one time. This person had like buried some treasure in their backyard but I can't find it.

1:36:57 So can you help me? That's just reminds me freaking episode Courage. The Cowardly Dog, when uses he hires like, I guess he doesn't hired it. They bring his medium and he goes to find, like he wants to find his brothers treasure or whatever the hell or a key to his brothers lockbox. And that's the only reason why he liked. He contacted. You want to talk to his loved one. He's like, where's the key? So I can get this money. Awesome. Yep, it smells Eustace. So yeah. So, they also, you know, people who like loved ones, they always, they also wanted to make sure that they're whoever had died had absolutely like passed over. They were doing well in the afterlife. There was actually an afterlife and that they didn't really end up in like, you know, he'll or something. What happens, what happens when you find out? I don't know, I don't know.

1:38:03 Think you're probably talking to a demon if your total saying like, you know, you called Uncle Charles and he's like, what up call me and you're like oh is it nice and heaven? And Uncle Travis like haha, I don't know what happens like, okay. How's how's Purgatory? How you know, Purgatory neither. Sorry nephew, what is it? I'm pretty sure that's why. Yes, if you're in heaven, like we don't let them know that Angels really look like Monsters. Oh my God.

1:39:20 Gabriel look like and you cannot respond to you as 20. Have a nice if you don't count his eyes. Okay. If we don't talk about that eyes and inhale demons are like the wardens. They're just like screening or phone calls through like hmm. This seems like something I can possess. Let's get this kid. Had it when your daughter called? Should I tell her that you're burning in hell that you're getting a pineapple should have been sure. But from Little Nicky, it is for Little Nicky. She did the Hitler's hilarious. But anyway anyway, so you know people trying to communicate with the dead friends, do whatever forms it to can.

1:40:21 This also Was a time when you know, frogs were pop up a lot of frogs and he wanted to make like a quick Buck at their lips. Great table system. Oh my goodness. Yes, at the expense of other people suffering. It's like that's. So like they went through so much to make so much. Like, I just want to talk to my grandma and then, here it is. Person is, Here's my thought process, though, like if you're like, listen, I got like a to say, W minimum. And you like lie to this person and tell them like how happy like their grandma was so proud of you. I know she never said it but she loves you so much. And then like, you're done.

1:41:04 I feel like there's not that much harm in that. I think the problem was there were people who got like a dicted going to the sansa's. Like the lady who. Um, yeah, it's just a mystery house. Yes. Yes. Like seeing those people every Sunday and she was probably paying she do. Definitely wonder-percent, they were charging for that groups. Groups of mediums coming to her house. So I feel like in that situation that sucks but you're just taking advantage of somebody, but like if you make somebody feel better like one time so nice. Yeah. But didn't you have people like, was it, Sir, Arthur Conan Doyle and he's just like, yeah. All this stuff is real. These mediums that, uh, told me exactly what I wanted to hear and stuff like that, and they're just doing like cold readings and shit. And to him and it's just, like nothing delighted me more than when Houdini was just like, My mom didn't speak English. This bitch like he was so he was like any letter? That should have come from.

1:42:03 My mom should have been in german. Yes, he's like. When am I mom were English? He always fluid then. Chairman was like the mom medium is like, of course. Yeah, because everybody thinks like nobody else and I love it. Yeah, that was the best. Always always, stay the Houdini God. So, you know what? We need to have like a code word for you and I so that he died. You gotta let me know the code word somehow. You say you got to get it to me, somehow. Oh, and then we will have proof of. Yeah, there you go.

1:42:51 There you go. Well, that's what I'll talk about that later to vote. Houdini, Seance that. Remember that from last year? That was a fun time. Okay, so this is normally how a seance is set up. Like I'm just going to like stereotype a seance. Okay. So it's a dimly dimly lit room of always. But the table when it of course, maybe maybe chairs, who knows, maybe you want some floor? You can't lose most definitely candles and you have medium there to lead Seance and probably there, you know, your friends, our families is there with you.

1:43:35 Plus some weird-looking guy, who, who's just, who's just who's just like he looks skeptical and he's just standing in like a corner and you just waking up. They always have like septic shock. No, just a joke. Okay, it's funny that you laughed because I smiled at the exact moment you start that. Like before you even laughed I just was like wait a second, what? Yeah. Yeah. There's this guy, he looks skeptical at home or in the corners like wait a second. Is that is that Harry Houdini? Why are you here? At this very personal thing and my family are doing a little side note in Houdini like he was such a star that like it was just like listen Brittany I want to sit in on The Stance.

1:44:25 You have to contact your mother. I've been like. Alright cool dude. Yeah. Yeah. It but remember when Houdini he did attended s��ances, he had to go in Disguise sometimes because mediums were like, I don't want writing this used to do it. Yeah. God. And it's like, like he may contact the family and if he's just like randomly shows up in a disguise, and it's just like, like, when I was writing this, I was just thinking of like, someone just like him. Houdini like you're okay. So you're at Like Sears with somewhere getting to your family picture taken, right? And and Houdini just walks in on and off the street and he just like oh don't worry about me.

1:45:09 I'm just here to observe and then I might jump in like a couple of your pictures to just because that's just like me, laugh is funny. While you talk to this lady, I'm gonna hide under the table. I'm gonna, I love that thing. He did with his knees and like, he could tell when she was moving her legs. Like, when his Like walk behind.

1:45:55 Yeah basically. Yes don't worry about me. I'm just you know I'm just I'm just you know don't you sit over here doing like let's look at like he's playing that game twister. Yes, she's like. All right I'm ready. Got one leg over here. What are by here? A little TV. Okay, so anyway, at the table to say on starts in the medium you know they enter this trance-like state that's which allows them to community to communicate with the spirit work. So they begin a channel, to Spirit. And for anybody who is confused channeling, it's not possession.

1:46:41 Channeling is not possession. Channeling is consensual. As well as possession is not consensual at all. Absolutely, not consensual. I don't even trust people to wear a mask right now. I hate it. I hate it. Yeah, you know, yeah, like don't touch me. Don't, you don't have to, like, put your hand in your ghostly hand, on my shoulder just like, hey, see him across the room and just shout into this this way when you do I want you to like knock on the door like 27 times? Yep, you know, and that is actually like one of the tools that mediums use to get Speers the communicate with them. Like getting to tap on to Tables or like something a candle blows out or some like, well-loved channeling. And the auto writing though.

1:47:54 Yes, alrighty. I mean I guess it happens during the channel lineup where they know I'm writing. The ghost is riding through my hand. Yep, you have to either taking control of my hand. Hmm. Interesting. I see okay and you know like the medium, they ask them questions and they answer them it. It's Clip that goes from, I went on. It's like you ask them questions. Like they're different tools that you use to get your goes to speak to you either like a turn off your mag light or you know dislike goes off whenever they want to communicate like yes or no question.

1:48:35 If I worked at like one of those locations and I pretend to be a medium, every single person would get a letter. That just took like die die. You're like, I don't know why. I like I've been on this ghost tour. Like five different times notices die. Like they hate me. Now, I realize I'm just gonna like mess up. Oh, yeah, definitely woman. Owns this manner. And she talked about murdering ghost her entire life, and I'll just be like in the corner like, yelling, do the radio, you suck, just fucking everything up.

1:49:29 Yeah, yeah stupid-ass bitch singing singing rap songs is like wait a second. Is this EVP say I like big butts and I cannot lie. What is a wop? They're like apparently the ghosts that there's some hoses. In this house, maybe we should get out of this house. Ha ha ha. Oh my God. The best part is like, in the EVPs, like, they don't hear, right? And so like they'd be like, I don't, I don't understand. I can't understand what you saying. There's what in the house Shoes shoes. There's some shoes in this house. Oh my god.

1:50:28 Oh now some mediums. Some mediums did get fancy with it and they started producing some something called ectoplasm. Oh no. Yeah and that those were fun times when one what was it made out of Brian. Um, sometimes. Well, if for a frauds, they were found not to be like, made out of cheese cloth and stuff like that, like, she's cool. Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, that they. Okay. So when was I think it was like when Houdini did the The contest for like, like, stop me with your spiritualism shit, right?

1:51:14 So he just like, scoop it up and put it in his mouth. No no, no. They actually like head labs and stuff like that would be okay. Stuff on site. Was he like yo this is some cheesecloth cheesecloth. I don't understand how okay, I so yeah. They would give like they would give the median, not the mediums. They would give like Harry Houdini and or Harry prize for whoever like was like doing the doing the investigation on them they would give them like a sample of this ectoplasm and they go back to your lab and test it and stuff like that. And then like this is this is she's cool so I Googled it. Yeah ready for this and on the listing someone has made a tiny little go.

1:52:10 Out of the cheesecloth and he's holding a sign. That says, here's my thing. Like I don't understand, this is just fabric. How is this ectoplasm? I think of ectoplasm, I think of Ghostbusters. Well, who well, they would put other things like you put things in it. Like the cheese cloth for cover yellow eggs. Whatever they could find. That was slimy. So like egg. White is pretty slow. Yeah. So they would do stuff like that cheese cloth. I was like, she's focused even gooey, you know it's just something they could put in something that you put stuff inside of but yeah you did also mention like automatic writing.

1:52:54 That's also something that Spirit mediums use as well. Oh yeah, that creeps me out. yeah, so other than automatic writing mediums mediums. They have other tools they can use to communicate with the dead, okay? And like automatic writing. It's basically, you know, the other parameter channeling the spirit and it's either like they're writing on a piece of paper. Like just for now. Everybody in the league there. Is there asking questions to the spirit?

1:53:35 And that's basically yeah. The spirit is control your hand. Or there's this there's this this cute little game that's been out for, I don't know. Like hundreds is like 100 concerts a year. I think or something that's like that. I'll need a spear upward. It's the talking, they Corner talking board as well or as it's more, commonly known Ouija board. Not a fan. This is how they would get their answers when they wanted to let me talking to Spirits.

1:54:16 So if you don't know what a Ouija board is a Ouija board, it's a basically, first of all, I'm shaking my head at you if you don't know what a Ouija board is. But I'll also explain what it is. It's really like a flat board and on it is written the alphabet English. Alphabet, I'm not sure if they, I didn't, I should have looked this up. If they had like, we drew Ouija boards for like, those are countries and stuff like that. I'm pretty sure other countries are smart enough. Not to use, like, Ouija boards, or not to make something like this to communicate with the spirit were. But here we are an So it has the English alphabet A to Z on it and then it also has numbers is 029 on it and in each of the upper Corners it's a yes or no and I think in the middle of the top it says goodbye.

1:55:19 Yeah or at the bottom says goodbye every. Yeah the bottom says goodbye and like like one side will say yes the other side say no. There's letters in the middle. And numbers. Yes, yes. Then it also includes a I can hold on the plant chat it includes the planchette for you to highlight the letters or whatever. Answer was yes or no or numbers. So they have that. Like I said it's also referred to as a talking board I call it the don't fuck with the board myself because I don't fuck with that board at all.

1:56:05 Since you never know like if we're actually contacting a human Spirit or possibly a demon and just remember when you're using a Ouija board just you know say goodbye and if they don't say goodbye back to and say I said goodbye, so make sure you say goodbye. I don't know, like I shouldn't. I also should have looked up what happens when you say goodbye it. Ain't there like no, I think. And talking to ghosts and stuff. They? You close the circle. Yeah, it's kind of like if I'm on the phone with you. I'm I said, goodbye click basically, if you can be honest. Yeah you can be on the other end but I've decided to like, stop this, we're done here, is this terminated sorry sir? Well yeah, like Ouija boards.

1:57:07 They were popularly. They were made Popular by Hasbro and like they were supposed to be like some type of like just they were supposed to be just like a basic like parlor trick type of thing and then people actually started taking it more seriously and like Leaving that to the cult and stuff like that. And that's where you get the best abdon by the satanic Panic. The seventies know, you gotta love that. I love that era. It's my favorite error. Everything was the devil. Everything was the devil's fucking metal. I loved it.

1:57:50 Oh my God. But yeah. It's a parlor trick but you know something and I'll get into that as well as her eyes talk about this other thing. So I I wrote down like Bloody Mary and like handyman stuff like that. But I'm like, is that like, I mean, it's like a slumber party type of thing. Is that more like a summoning ritual for like, like, you're trying to like summon somebody instead of like trying to communicate with them because you're trying to like, yeah, it's like those are not saying Take situation. Yeah. But There is a game / challenge that popped up, like six years ago.

1:58:35 Do you remember the Charlie Charlie challenge? No. Okay, yeah, wait. Wasn't that like writer who said there's that kid. But he saw in his house and sleeping. He had asked the kid how he died and I was the one rule. You weren't supposed to ask, he's like, taking pictures all over his house and setting up videos and things. Is that the guy with chocolate or possibly, possibly. I think the kid might have been named Charlie. I don't know if they had another was challenge associated with this. It was very good moment in Creepypasta history. Yes. Yes, sir. It was as well as with it Momo.

1:59:17 I love the Mosaic because it was don't like the most thing. It was just a really cool statue and then they like tried to scare kids. Okay. Yes. That thing but then they had like the Moment Like it Like Moma was on WhatsApp. That was just somebody being a jerk. Yeah but yet it was on WhatsApp and like they would tell you things and she liked that it was just a weird thing to happen. But no. Okay. So Charlie Charlie challenge at its base based, basically raising you get like a piece of paper, right and on your right it for time. So let's get on a paper.

2:00:00 You write yes and no thing, right? No, yes, no, yes, I think and that's how it was done. And You get two pencils. And you're like, just cross them over each other. Like we have one pencil balancing over the Elder one and whichever way that pencil went. Was this Charlie person? Answering your question. And for some reason this was believed to be a demon named Charlie. I'm not even sure why a demon would be named Charlie but So, this challenge actually originated in I guess. The Spanish-speaking countries and it was very it was just called a pencil game.

2:01:04 So it's like a Magic 8-Ball. Yeah, so this High children. Oh Hi, anyway. Um so like people were interested in it because it had crossed language barriers, and like, it was just like this, this type of game just like connected everybody together. For like, I don't know for like the few couple months that it was popular on YouTube.

2:01:45 And best. Because that's that's usually that's where I first saw on YouTube. Was someone doing the Charlie Charlie Challenge? And they were saying Charlie, Charlie blah, blah blah. Something something, how'd you die? Or who's going to am I going to die? Yes, no, I get that. The the the ritualistic aspect of it is the writing on the paper or whatnot, but it's like that, like crosses over into being like a tulpa. Look enough people believe a thing that becomes real. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Yes. Yeah. I feel like that kind of like, Charlie becomes the the taupe of they're not necessarily You should do a whole episode on that.

2:02:26 That's got some very interesting. It's from the list. Yeah, that's right. That's how I thought. I feel like Bloody Mary and Candyman. Those are all cope with to. Yeah. Like millions of people were all doing, you know, the flickering light thing. At the same time, a lot of things could be topaz, but we will talk about that on top of the episode. Awesome. I think that's a really great. Yes, paranormal Concepts. I was doing research on that actually the other day and I was like, this is so much, just there's so much goes into it. I watched a movie on Hulu, like a called hookah lives. Oh, I love, I love that. Yes. And I was like so surprised when they were like at the table and I was like you're right, it is there's a fucking tool only in the movie it actually has catastrophic You know consequences.

2:03:21 You didn't watch the first puka movie yet though. The one? Where the guy plays the actual point? Yeah yeah. Yeah. I saw that one. I was like, oh this is kind of fucked up. I was looking for like, horror Christmas movies. Recently on break But yeah, it's hopeless will get in the tour bus. So with games like the Charlie, Charlie Challenge, and, and Ouija board, there's this thing that kind of explains how they work, or how do I know you're gonna talk about? I forget how you say it, but I know it is. I'm going to try to pronounce his Idol motor as an idol motor phenomenon.

2:04:07 Yeah, yes. So I had to Wiki this and see what the fuck. That meant anything. Because for people who believe in spiritual stuff, right? Yeah. I feel like the ritual aspects of using these toys are more important than like the, the movement of the planchette and that totally works with this concept. You know, she's that your subconscious is moving. Yep, that's basically. It is your like, I guess it's like you want an answer and you yourself who's holding the planchette or like the paper like that paper have two pencils are on balancing that you kind of like breeze into that direction or you like Make your hand move into the. I've read about this before and like they say that like the more people are together.

2:04:55 The more you feel like you have less control. Yes. Yes, I can see that. You're not doing it. You think that you're not doing and everybody thinks they're not doing it? And together, you're kind of all collectively. Hoping something happens. Yep. And it kind of make it happen. And then you're like, who's moving? The planchette? Are you moving it? You're doing it. And I'm like, no, I'm not going. That's the funny part was doing it. All our people are moving it that you don't realize it. Yes, you're all moving it. Yeah, for me though I feel like they'll do virtual nature of stuff. Like I feel like repetitively doing certain things over and over again. That's where I feel like there's a lot of power. Oh yeah absolutely. Yeah you know you if you wake up every day and you talk to yourself in the mirror and you tell yourself positive things that that's a ritual and that has power over you you are meeting up consistently with the same group of people and you're all thinking about the same stuff. You're doing the same ritual over and over again. I feel like there's power in that and it's not a good thing. When you know you're sitting here like we're going to be the demon like okay if you're trying to contact a demon no it's not a good thing at all, created a ritual now based around something dark and I don't feel like the board itself is actually doing anything.

2:06:10 No, no, it's just like something. You should really. I feel like the powers and the people and their connection to Spirit. Quality and stuff like that. Absolutely 100%. That's yeah, I love that. Yes. Absolutely. But yeah, I know, that was so interesting like ages ago, I was like there's a real physical like you're like your body has impulses. Yeah. Separate from your you knowing that you're doing It's wow. How cool is wrong? so, I talked about the tools. Of course, I want to talk about people who've actually, I don't know, use these tools, so, and I can't talk about people who use these tools when I'm talking about people. The two people who may have actually started this, whole fucking spiritualism stuff and that's the fox sisters. Yeah, it's a haven't Renee's right now. Of course we're gonna say is so mad. No.

2:07:19 I love will reign and I will not stand for lowering slander. No, no no, no slandering will rain today, but they were both teenagers. Won't one was a teenager just was like Prix team so Margaret Fox and are they called her Maggie? And she was 15 and then Kate Fox and she was 11. So I have this story had to stir goodness. So yeah. So, I guess this there's a story behind how they started doing their spoofs through medium work.

2:08:00 And so Story Goes that For like a week or so their household with their parents and stuff. They had just been experiencing some random knocking and like a lot of noises and bangs and stuff like going on at night and one night. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. One night Kate. She's like, I want to talk to this thing, whatever. I'm going to just talk and see if something answers me. and so she begins asking questions, you know, just random as questions and seeing if the thing would respond by knocking, she's like, if you're like a person or a man, if you're like a man knock like Twice done.

2:08:58 Yeah like twice. If you died as like if you were murdered or something knock once and stuff like that and then like this thing would like knock back for her. And People in, you know, people caught wind of this, in the neighborhood, just like what's the word? Word is she just like here in the knocks of her house? No. - sister, I don't know, because that would suck. If your sister is like messing you up. It would suck those look so much.

2:09:42 So so her popularity grew, of course, people from the neighborhood, heard about it. They'd come over to her house to hear these knockings. And in here to say, knocking an inch like answering her questions with these knocks, it were these noises. And there's a soul like oh my God. Like you're you're fantastic. You're a medium? Oh my God, like they know what? Obviously any homes. Those media inspector? I least. I don't think so not in the beginning. But that they like Katie and I don't know how Maggie got involved in this, but Maggie Maggie ended up, actually being like the manager for Katie like okay yeah, so They were so popular.

2:10:33 I read this okay? They were they were popular. They were used in to seances. Okay well to see it. Two famous seances and they were both done by Presidential women. So first first the first lady's, okay. The first one was look it up. Jane, Pierce, she had, she had hired a fox sisters to hold a seance at the White House. And I think this was for, I guess her going to get her sons and she wanted to communicate with them and and they she it says that they didn't, she didn't give people like what happened. She didn't give them, you know, her reaction to their Seance or whatnot because well for one it was White House and it's probably confidential what goes on in the White House. And to, this is another reason I tell you that later. But another person another woman who Another first lady who hired the fox sisters was Mary Todd Lincoln. Oh yeah.

2:11:58 She hired them to hold a seance. I think, first it was for Not not Abe. It wasn't for a bat first, but I think she had Sons as well, so she's trying to contact her sons and, and, and then she was trying to contact a gene and then. Yeah, I was like, that's yeah, yeah, that's sad. But, um, She also would not speak on it but on their Seance but she was like, she wasn't very impressed and you know, stuff like that she wasn't very so, okay. I'll tell you why later on down the line. Like after you going to do these two girls are, you know, you're famous for being mediums and stuff like that. And Zay.

2:13:03 Want to, I think it's up Maggie, Maggie comes out to the public and she's like, hey guys, just want to let you know, like she just has her Her filming her, YouTube apology video. I just want to let you know that me and my sister actually had been faking this the whole time and they're like well how'd you do it? And she's like well when Kate was talking to people were there like responding to these knocks. I just be built like somewhere. Library banging like apples on a shoe strings and stuff like that against the wall I said it, it was her sister. I didn't want to give you the satisfaction. I have it now sir.

2:13:51 I was right. Right. But yeah. So you know, after after all of these hearings is they had done and stuff like that communicating with people it was just Maggie behind the wall. Would apples and Kate just like going along with it. Now here's my thing. Nobody went. Yo, where's the other girl? Why is she not here? Oh my God. Oh my God. And and this is like, so some people believe this and some people are like no no, they were like they were course to like saying this because for one they were alcoholics and he died of alcoholism and people were like, well, someone had bribed them with alcohol to get them to say this.

2:14:46 And that's like they The said this stuff. And I don't I mean I could see that happening. Someone like like what does what you just told me today with this horrible story? You told me today, somebody taking advantage of people in their addictions and other people. Yeah. Yeah. It's it was terrible other people were like, yeah, I guess he is that. Like I could see that they faked it because they're two or two girls, there, two teenagers and they're just bored in the house.

2:15:28 And then the house board and like, this is like Jeff. Come on goose. Like obviously that little girl had just made up Jeff and was just talking to Jeff the Mongoose through the walls, her little imaginary friend. She is made up. But yeah. Also, I did want to touch on this Houdini say I'm staying which is still funny as fuck. I love the fact that he know. So apparently he didn't only give his wife a password. He gave like close friends to him a password as well, like different passwords for each people and like nobody has gotten the password at all. None of these mediums Well, you go and you have just like that's that's that's why I like nobody's real. And it's like I think the last one they did it last year. There's one that it 2020 actually. They didn't want to 2020 is virtual it. A virtual Seance was for Houdini. Oh my God.

2:16:40 Yeah. Um, what else, what else? I also want to touch on like other frauds, like, I don't know, like, John Edwards and Sylvia Browne. How they, what they do is they'll be a brown is the one who Said that the girls who were out of what's this mean Castillo. Yeah, that guy. Yeah, that. Yep, that they were dead girls that were dead. Yes, because I remember the one girl said she was watching the episode. That's where Sylvia Browne said to her mom. Your daughter's already dead. Yeah. And just, wow. This is wild.

2:17:20 That was her biggest fail. A little time. That ended her career. I feel like you're a member. I think you're right, because she used to be on So shows and everything too. She's everywhere. She's always on the month, he'll show. Yes, I mean, all those guys. All they do is just cold reader are. That's all you do. That's all you do. And that's when those are, I'm like, in a room, full of, like, 200 people. Someone's experience a lot. Yeah, it's starting with the letter j. There's got to be a lot of people who've experienced a loss, and it starts the letter j. I'd say, yeah. And then the person will be like, oh yeah, well my grandma's little name is Janet or they were Dave, look around the room and see did it. Yeah, it's Janet.

2:18:06 I can, I can feel a Jedi, feel a strong attraction to you. For some reason, this Janet I saw a great one online. We're like the guys like pulled up the idea that like whoever they were talking to was like cursing at them and the lady was like, that's definitely on my grandpa, she's like listen. Oh, right. Yeah. She was alive. She wasn't honest with you. But right now she's saying some stuff and I was like, bra, gasps lightly me better, yes, to Gaslight the person is say that Grandma is calling people names or you just go. You know what, maybe it's not your grandma. Maybe it's somebody else. Grandma's not angry right now like to go there, just to go that direction.

2:18:49 Wow, yeah, sometimes mediums are just fucking scum. Yeah, that's what I think this is. I think John Oliver covered it like a couple years ago and very good episode. You did about, you know, just scamming for people out of my way sucks. Yeah, that's all I'm going to talk about today or mediums are or seances actually, but yeah. That's where I got. Hope you guys enjoy. Thanks so much for being part of art. Well, this, if you're watching good luck, because I got hot. I took off my hat. I put it back on, like, I'm over here being crazy for getting them on camera. I also forgot for a second, my facial expressions. I hope you guys enjoy those facial expressions but I hope. Yeah.

2:19:37 Yeah, if you're still listening thank you so much for listening. Like roughly like 5,000 people last year. Consistently listen, all year long, that's incredible. The merchants out. We got our thick today is the Booty Man of West, Virginia shirts. And hoodies out today. The hoodies we got, we got beanies, you got mugs, you got t-shirts and everything, except for underwear. It's give us a mineral that I don't know about that. It's so great to be back in the saddle and telling you all the stories about how they got caught. And And also you know having fun with Brian. I missed.

2:20:20 It was only a couple weeks. We were gone but I missed it. Yeah, same same, it's good. It is good to be back but I got a nice A little Second Wind here. Yeah thank you so much for listening. We love our. I couldn't be happier. Like I said, one thing I said I'm picked up yesterday I was like 20 21 was the best year of my life so I was like there's even more work to do but I could be happy to do it. Absolutely I feel the same good night.