Anthony Sowell and the Dark Path that lead to the Cleveland Strangler

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Everybody in serial killer
country.

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It's your girl.
Brittany Ransom and I'm here,

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will pray Joyner and welcome to
see Today, we are celebrating

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our podcast a story one year
ago.

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Today we sat down and record,
our first podcast, a little

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scared, and I'm sure and now
250,000 wasn't later.

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We're stepping in and 2022, a
little less scared, but still

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ready to give you the Deep
Dives, that many of you came

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back for over and over last
year.

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If you're new here with Coach
get caught, is a three second

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podcast.
Meant to give you a little

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light.
Snack is bright and I discuss a

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True Crime Story that's going on
in the world this week then will

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lead you down a path of Lesner
known.

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Well, known serial killers and
As their childhood wives

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methodology.
And most importantly how they

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got caught and Brian finishes us
off with an episode of hair.

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I messed that all up.
This is new, it's a new thing,

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so I messed up.
So I start from the beginning.

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No, no, no, it's okay.
Keep going.

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Okay, so sad and Brian finish us
off with a paranormal palate,

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cleanser But before we get to
the episode, I should have let

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you know that when Killers get
caught dot shop is officially

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live.
And look at this merch for those

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of you watching on YouTube or
Spotify, this is our podcast.

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Merge drop.
We have my glorious weenie that

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I'm wearing now and this rather
snazzy mug.

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As well as our first series of
shirts that we are calling

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dicted a fun creation of some of
our favorite Cryptids from last

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season stylized to be a little
on the thick side.

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Our first victim was inspired by
the statue of the Mothman and

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Point, Pleasant West Virginia
and it is going right here on my

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pink Hood.
And scale just a little booty

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tooch.
Just a little booty tooch.

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You can't see the high heels,
but they look very nice.

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If you want to give her early
symbol of their Instagram is

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bonesy underscore Doodles are
other artists is SK Dot.

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SK m dot artists and they are
both on Instagram scam.

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Artist did all of our our logo
and the image for the mug, which

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I call are arrested banner.
And yeah, anyone who buys

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anything in the next month is
going to get put into a drawing

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to win some custom swag.
That Brian.

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And I are going to sign you get
a personalized thank-you from

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one of us thanking you for being
honest.

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Journey with us.
And yeah that's just it, it's

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very exciting and I can't wait
for the other designs to come,

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right.
Yeah.

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Brian's waiting on a couple of
other cool things.

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Like a cropped.
Hoodie long sleeve sweatshirt

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without a hood, right?
Yeah.

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Yeah.
It's going to be so far when

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I've worn some of this stuff on
Livestream.

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People are just like we wait.
So once I thought he could have

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dropped well, Where you getting
that mug?

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Just wait.
You'll know, you'll find out

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when you just found out today.
Well, here's the thing.

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If you are listening to this
podcast right now, everything is

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up on the website.
So it's when Killers get caught.

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Shop.
And this week in True Crime, So

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do you remember Brian a couple
months ago?

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There was that guy who was way
too and to q and on and he

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killed.
He took his two-year-old and

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ten-month-old to Mexico and
murdered them.

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Yes, he is.
So what I came across a couple

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days ago was his name is Matthew
Coleman and he has apparently

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devoid of a constant diet of
Internet.

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He's kind of come to his senses.
They said, he poured out his

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heart in a jailhouse letter to a
friend.

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They said he's really despondent
and hopeless, he's reflecting on

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his mistakes.
He made in life and wondering if

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there's any chance for
Redemption.

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I doubt from your wife, you just
killed her two under

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two-year-old baby so yeah,
that's not gonna happen anytime

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soon.
Yeah, it was August 7th and the

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family were planning to go on a
trip.

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So like everything was already
packed up his wife.

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Abby realized that they were
like all gone.

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And she couldn't contact him at,
he wouldn't answer the phone,

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nothing he took their van and
drove from Santa Barbara,

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California.
All the way to Mexico and two

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days later he took the kids to a
ranch.

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It wasn't his, it was just some
random thought of land, and he

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killed him with a spear phishing
God, but he returned to the

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hotel, a couple hours later and
he got arrested when he was

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trying to cross the border back
into the u.s. and for folks who

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don't know, like people who get
way too, Deep into Q&A on start

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thinking about like how
everybody's made out of lizards.

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They've merged q and on with
Illuminati conspiracies and

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honestly Illuminati has just
become like a mega conspiracy.

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We've talked about it on the
patreon.

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Yes, yes.
Yeah.

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Like when I heard about the
speargun, it was like that's a

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little bit of Overkill, don't
you think my guy definitely and

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I mean he believed they were
going to grow up to become Um

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not like yeah you know you're a
monster like real most literal

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monsters.
Yeah he thought they were going

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to be literally wizard monsters.
Yeah.

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I feel super bad for the guy
because like that's the thing is

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like when Trump was agonies
people on especially like Trump

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was telling people to do things
and get themselves arrested in

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trouble.
None of those people that he

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edged on to hurt other people.
He stopped paying for any of

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those people to Legal funds.
He's on helping me those people

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out.
So no words in it.

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That It took being in prison for
four months to kind of deprogram

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himself when it comes to
conspiracy theories and that's

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why thing anybody listen who
likes them?

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It's fun to like talk about
certain conspiracy theories, but

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when you cross that threshold of
thinking that like you need to

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kill people.
You got to step back.

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Yeah, yeah.
You gotta think about what

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you're doing, buddy.
But that was my True Crime Story

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this week.
What you got?

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Okay.
So this happened.

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It's a couple days ago.
So, right actually take after

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Christmas so Minnesota, man.
He confesses to killing his dad

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and his sister.
He confesses to his brother,

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that he's killed them and the
way they found a body, he's,

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they were just like sitting
upright in their chairs.

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So I guess I guess right after
Christmas or whatever they were

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doing, you know, you had these
two over and you got two dead.

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Pieces with Dash?
Yeah, yeah they're just sitting

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here.
So the table set, the creep

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Factor.
It doesn't say so The person who

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did it.
His name is Ivan.

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Maybe I've been marked room
Delilah and it's a double a dog.

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So I don't know if they'll be
Russian, it's because he's like,

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he's a, he's a POC.
So he's black guy.

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So maybe it's a different
country.

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Yeah.
His African name or something

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like that, you know, this is you
tell anybody why he just ran him

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over these people know, okay?
So this is a story to how it

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went well according to his
brother who he told so he said

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like he his brother, his brother
was acting weird and then he

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ultimately like he broke down
and told him that.

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Yeah, I shot I shot dad in, you
know, sister Like a couple of

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few days ago actually, so oh.
So yeah, so the snow was

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probably not that nice just
sitting there at the dinner

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table and I don't know, you know
if it was dinner table just says

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they were sitting up sitting up
in our chairs.

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Yeah.
So yeah, you know, his brother

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went to, you know, investigator.
He got the complete, the police

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to come over and, you know, the
founder on locked in the, then

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they found.
The dad in the sister, just

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there sitting upright in her
chairs and apparent gonna strip

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root booster heads and like he's
been arrested, of course, and

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he's charged with.
I think we're seeing that.

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It's Second degree murder.
Yeah, so yeah, I'm not sure it

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was like a holiday gathering
that went wrong.

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It doesn't really like well.
I wonder what happened.

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Great.
You know what?

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It may be because Either he was,
he was living with his dad and

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his sister, and he was trying to
evict them and something went

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sour or he like, I'm in an
addiction an addiction from

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life.
But yeah I think he's he's he's

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gone to court his first Court
appearances.

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January 12th.
So you see yeah yeah yeah

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sometime soon.
And yeah, that's about it.

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Oh, I got for this week.
All right.

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Well, he's heading to my killer
deep dive.

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And last year, this serial
killer was requested.

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Multiple times that didn't have
the time to cover them, but I

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aim to please and I actually had
a secret Santa from Reddit, who

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got me booked and I assumed, you
know what, that must be my sign

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from the Aether that it's time
to cover Anthony style, one of

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Ohio's, most prolific serial
killers and also Known as the

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Cleveland Strangler the main
source of this week's podcast

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was nobody Swimming by Steve
Miller and I think that title

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kind of gives you an idea why he
was able to kill 11, women from

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2007 to 2009 and not even be a
suspect despite the fact that he

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had a criminal record he also
was known at like the local

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hospital for being a rapist.
It was terrible time.

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This is going to be a terrible
time.

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It's it was hard for me to write
this one this week.

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It was bad from start to finish.
Well, I guess one of those crazy

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things and there was a stench of
death That started in like 2006

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and went on until 2009 that they
blamed on a local sausage

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manufacturer, that was around
the corner.

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Not they didn't check any
houses.

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Nothing.
Oh my God.

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Okay, okay, we'll wait.
So you've been in Lancaster,

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right?
So on the stretcher I'm not even

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sure if it's like if the factory
still there, but you've been

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passed the hot dog Factory,
right?

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I don't know.
I mean I've been by a chicken

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factory and that's the friggin
worst.

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I forget what street it's on.
But there's a hot dog Factory in

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like in the middle of like the
city we're not in Middle City

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but like terms outskirts of the
city and like you drive past it

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just smells just like hot dogs
and I mean I could yeah I can't

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I know chicken factory smell
really bad because of how they

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keep the chickens.
Like happen is all that poop and

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stuff but I don't think sausage
factories are the same way and

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this is like a small one like in
a community like these are

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houses and then there's this
little tiny building.

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It's called Ray sausages.
They're still around but their

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struggle, it partially because
of what happened to you, right?

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But like every week I can only
start at the beginning.

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Anthony cell was born August
19th 1959 to a single mother and

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Aunt Connie Garrison.
He's one of seven children and

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neither he nor any of his
siblings ever knew their

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parents, then their fathers.
His siblings have spoken with

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the media or testifies of try
out.

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Our trusty Garrison Owen Davis,
Thomas L Allen Sal, a Tricia

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Davis Thatcher.
His mom, Claudia struggled, as

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any parent would with so many
children.

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Trying to provide for them with
little resources, trying to get

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help from A system that makes it
hard for you to actually do

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better while you're on it.
And on top of that, Claudia was

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also supporting her mother Irene
Justice.

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The kids never really had a
solid place to live or anything

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of their own before.
He was like five or six years

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old.
He was a lot like the definition

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of a latchkey kid by
kindergarten and for people who

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don't know what that means
because it's not really a term

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00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:03,100
to use anymore.
So, latchkey kids were children.

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And who walk to school by
themselves, they had a key on

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like a string or a lanyard
around their neck and they

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walked home where they would
also be alone for hours because

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their parents were working all
the time.

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Now Anthony's older sister
Patricia had a very serious case

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of asthma as a child and by the
time she was 18 and Anthony was

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only like six or seven.
She had five kids of her own so

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she didn't really have the time
to help her mother.

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With Anthony or any of the other
kids. and, At the point where

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00:15:42,400 --> 00:15:46,200
Anthony's like seven years old,
Claudia and Irene, you know Mom

227
00:15:46,200 --> 00:15:51,700
and Grandma have a home at six
kids and now adult Patricia has

228
00:15:51,700 --> 00:15:56,100
another house with her own seven
kids.

229
00:15:56,300 --> 00:16:00,200
So I said by 18, she had five,
then she had two more.

230
00:16:00,700 --> 00:16:03,300
And so what would essentially
happen is that like whoever was

231
00:16:03,300 --> 00:16:07,000
working would be watching the
kids 13 of them.

232
00:16:08,100 --> 00:16:11,100
And by say watching, I mean, not
watching because it's nearly

233
00:16:11,100 --> 00:16:13,500
impossible.
Like I worked as a teacher for

234
00:16:13,500 --> 00:16:16,600
years and in the state of
Pennsylvania, you are not even

235
00:16:16,600 --> 00:16:21,200
legally allowed to watch more
than 12 children under the age

236
00:16:21,600 --> 00:16:28,100
of, I believe eight.
So this is that, and this will

237
00:16:28,100 --> 00:16:31,700
be hard enough in the 60s and
70s, but the South kids also

238
00:16:31,700 --> 00:16:34,200
suffered from birth defects
mental illness and some of the

239
00:16:34,208 --> 00:16:37,900
kids said, epilepsy all up and
down the barbed wire and you It

240
00:16:37,900 --> 00:16:40,900
hard for, you know, spending
money on doctor's appointment,

241
00:16:40,900 --> 00:16:43,300
that's taken more money out of
the potential.

242
00:16:45,000 --> 00:16:48,500
And there was 0, both physical
and sexual abuse.

243
00:16:50,000 --> 00:16:56,100
So in 1966, Anthony is hanging
out at his older sisters house.

244
00:16:56,200 --> 00:17:00,700
He Witnesses his older nephew,
take his younger niece into the

245
00:17:00,700 --> 00:17:05,900
closet and abuser as the time he
didn't understand it, but he's

246
00:17:05,900 --> 00:17:07,700
he began to look at that as if
it was normal.

247
00:17:09,400 --> 00:17:11,800
Later in life that he was
psychologically evaluated.

248
00:17:11,800 --> 00:17:14,300
He told doctors that he was
being molested as well.

249
00:17:14,300 --> 00:17:18,900
During this time, he told the
doctors that it only ended when

250
00:17:18,900 --> 00:17:23,599
he did his older, his older
Matthew you go.

251
00:17:25,599 --> 00:17:27,700
So remember this is his
yesterday.

252
00:17:28,300 --> 00:17:31,100
Yeah fine.
Yeah, that's what happens.

253
00:17:31,100 --> 00:17:33,600
When you have like, an older
sibling having babies the same

254
00:17:33,600 --> 00:17:35,700
time.
Mom is hmm.

255
00:17:38,500 --> 00:17:41,100
But he said, he couldn't exactly
remember what stopped?

256
00:17:42,600 --> 00:17:48,600
But it's now August of 1969.
Years later, Patricia dies of

257
00:17:48,900 --> 00:17:51,200
chronic bronchitis due to her
asthma.

258
00:17:51,600 --> 00:17:56,400
She's only 27 years old, seven
kids, and all of her kids were

259
00:17:56,400 --> 00:18:00,900
moved to the house on East
Boulevard with Mom and Grandma.

260
00:18:02,700 --> 00:18:05,000
So now there's 13 kids at this
house.

261
00:18:05,800 --> 00:18:10,900
Damn everybody, all the kids
sleep into three to a room some

262
00:18:10,900 --> 00:18:13,600
of the children as well.
Patricia's children didn't even

263
00:18:13,600 --> 00:18:15,300
know that Claudia was their
grandmother.

264
00:18:16,600 --> 00:18:19,200
I think she was hurt there, Mom?
Yeah, I think so.

265
00:18:19,500 --> 00:18:25,600
Hmm, it was just so chaotic and
also Claudia was really mad at

266
00:18:25,600 --> 00:18:28,800
Patricia about the fact that she
had so many children kind of

267
00:18:28,800 --> 00:18:30,800
like, you know, I'm parents like
I don't want you to go down the

268
00:18:30,800 --> 00:18:34,600
same path that I went down and
so she didn't like her

269
00:18:34,600 --> 00:18:38,000
grandchildren and the kids all
new.

270
00:18:38,300 --> 00:18:40,900
Like, if she wanted to talk to
you or talk to them, she be

271
00:18:40,900 --> 00:18:45,400
like, go get that black.
So, and so They apparently said

272
00:18:45,400 --> 00:18:48,800
she was only nice to one of the
nieces who was like skin.

273
00:18:49,100 --> 00:18:52,400
So a little bit of inter-family
color isn't happening there,

274
00:18:52,600 --> 00:18:53,600
right?
Yeah.

275
00:18:57,600 --> 00:19:00,200
That's all that house on East
Boulevard is where physical

276
00:19:00,200 --> 00:19:03,900
abuse started.
Claudia was so stressed with all

277
00:19:03,900 --> 00:19:07,100
the children like her and Irene,
we're just working 24/7.

278
00:19:07,300 --> 00:19:09,200
Like, only one of them was ever
at the house.

279
00:19:09,200 --> 00:19:11,900
That time, I know, Claudia had
two jobs, everyone's working

280
00:19:11,900 --> 00:19:15,100
another job.
So, what the stress levels that

281
00:19:15,100 --> 00:19:19,300
high, she started hitting kids
And it became like her fuse was

282
00:19:19,300 --> 00:19:21,300
super short.
Your chores weren't done

283
00:19:21,300 --> 00:19:27,200
correctly, you get caved, you
know, switch extension cord.

284
00:19:27,600 --> 00:19:33,300
Unfortunately this is the old
way that holder black folks used

285
00:19:33,300 --> 00:19:36,400
to deal with kids.
And, you know, we look back at

286
00:19:36,400 --> 00:19:40,600
it now and it's awful and, you
know, I look at my friends and

287
00:19:40,600 --> 00:19:43,500
I'm like so proud that all the
people that I know who have

288
00:19:43,500 --> 00:19:45,900
kids, don't treat their kids
like this.

289
00:19:46,000 --> 00:19:50,400
But I feel bad because we were
treated this way and our parents

290
00:19:50,400 --> 00:19:54,200
were treated this way.
That's yeah, that's the breaking

291
00:19:54,200 --> 00:19:56,800
of like it talk.
I talked to tear about it like a

292
00:19:56,808 --> 00:19:59,700
lot like breaking that like
generational curse and stuff

293
00:19:59,800 --> 00:20:03,800
like we got to raise our kids, a
little softer and people like

294
00:20:03,800 --> 00:20:06,700
the world's not going to treat
them that I'm like, yes, the

295
00:20:06,700 --> 00:20:08,100
world is not going to treat
themselves.

296
00:20:08,100 --> 00:20:10,500
So at least they can have a safe
place in their home.

297
00:20:10,500 --> 00:20:16,200
Exactly, exactly.
But a 1970, the entire family

298
00:20:16,200 --> 00:20:18,000
moves to a house on page.
Avenue.

299
00:20:18,200 --> 00:20:21,400
And it was large enough that
almost all of the kids had space

300
00:20:21,400 --> 00:20:23,900
to living by themselves.
A couple of the rooms they like

301
00:20:23,900 --> 00:20:26,300
partitioned off to make like two
bedrooms.

302
00:20:26,700 --> 00:20:30,600
They had a big yard space to
play in when both Irene and

303
00:20:30,600 --> 00:20:33,000
Claudia were at work.
They would just play in the yard

304
00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:36,200
climate cherry tree.
This was kind of the closest to

305
00:20:36,200 --> 00:20:39,900
a time of happiness in their
childhood because there was

306
00:20:39,900 --> 00:20:44,400
never money for birthdays.
No, sleepovers no candy or any

307
00:20:44,400 --> 00:20:47,400
food, that wasn't homemade and
the beatings didn't stop.

308
00:20:47,500 --> 00:20:54,600
And when Anthony was spoke
interviewed post being found for

309
00:20:54,600 --> 00:20:59,200
his crimes, he said that his
child home was like a war

310
00:20:59,500 --> 00:21:02,500
constant yelling and screaming
the being for brutal.

311
00:21:03,200 --> 00:21:06,300
Claudia would have the children
strip and then she would tie

312
00:21:06,300 --> 00:21:09,600
them to the banister at the foot
of the stairs, and beat them

313
00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:13,000
with an extension cord Earth,
which and it happened pretty

314
00:21:13,000 --> 00:21:16,300
much every single day and
sometimes in the middle of the

315
00:21:16,300 --> 00:21:19,600
night.
Despite the fact that Happy's

316
00:21:19,600 --> 00:21:23,100
kids are school age, she was
finds like an unwashed dish at 2

317
00:21:23,100 --> 00:21:26,800
a.m. and she wake everybody up
for this, like ritualistic

318
00:21:26,800 --> 00:21:30,900
public lashing.
That reminds me of slavery.

319
00:21:32,700 --> 00:21:37,900
Mmm-hmm.
Yeah other times she just has to

320
00:21:37,900 --> 00:21:40,200
get mad and she walked into a
kid's room and just start

321
00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:42,700
beating them while they were
sleeping and the kid didn't even

322
00:21:42,700 --> 00:21:52,500
have any idea of what they did
wrong. so, so remember the uncle

323
00:21:52,600 --> 00:21:58,000
well, So, Anthony had an uncle
known as Junior.

324
00:21:59,100 --> 00:22:02,800
And this point.
Now a lot of the older boys and

325
00:22:02,800 --> 00:22:06,600
some of the older girls are
moving into puberty, which means

326
00:22:06,600 --> 00:22:13,900
that the, the boys are focusing
on the girls and Anthony found

327
00:22:13,900 --> 00:22:17,100
out that his mom had a secret
stash chips and sodas and candy

328
00:22:17,400 --> 00:22:22,500
and he would steal it, and he
would blame it on his cousin

329
00:22:22,500 --> 00:22:27,600
Leona.
So he could see her getting

330
00:22:27,600 --> 00:22:37,300
dressed.
And he what it says he started

331
00:22:37,300 --> 00:22:41,200
sexually assaulting her when he
was 13 and she was 12.

332
00:22:42,900 --> 00:22:45,700
And she said that before that
they were friendly, but his

333
00:22:45,700 --> 00:22:47,400
whole demeanor changed after
half.

334
00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:49,600
And we got really violent with
her.

335
00:22:49,600 --> 00:22:52,600
Whenever she tried to avoid,
like, going up to his bedroom,

336
00:22:52,900 --> 00:22:56,200
punch her in the face, gave her
a black eye and the honest of

337
00:22:56,200 --> 00:22:58,400
this went on for years.
Uncle Junior.

338
00:22:58,400 --> 00:23:01,600
Uncle Junior are sold his own
sister Ramona and so did

339
00:23:01,600 --> 00:23:05,500
Anthony's brother Owen?
Jr's younger sister.

340
00:23:05,500 --> 00:23:09,100
Renee was also being assaulted
and this was happening every day

341
00:23:09,100 --> 00:23:12,200
in her home.
And the girls were still being

342
00:23:12,200 --> 00:23:15,000
beaten by Claudia.
So they had absolutely no idea

343
00:23:15,000 --> 00:23:18,300
who they could turn to all the
girls began running away from

344
00:23:18,300 --> 00:23:25,400
home in their own teams. and
even what's Claudia found out,

345
00:23:25,400 --> 00:23:28,100
or like learned with the girls
were saying, she didn't believe

346
00:23:28,100 --> 00:23:34,000
them, which is also Sterile,
like it's also an aspect of the

347
00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:36,800
black community that, you know,
was very rampant during this

348
00:23:36,800 --> 00:23:42,500
time, too.
She had nobody to turn to God.

349
00:23:43,500 --> 00:23:46,400
Not even safe in your own house
is just terrible.

350
00:23:46,800 --> 00:23:49,300
Ramona, got caught running away.
Should I put in a facility for

351
00:23:49,300 --> 00:23:52,200
troubled kids?
Leona actually followed her to

352
00:23:52,200 --> 00:23:55,900
the facility and hid there for
two months before they found her

353
00:23:55,900 --> 00:23:59,100
and they took her back home, the
girls are just repeatedly picked

354
00:23:59,100 --> 00:24:01,300
up, put in the center return
back to the hell.

355
00:24:01,300 --> 00:24:06,100
That was home a system failing
them over over and over again.

356
00:24:07,000 --> 00:24:08,200
You'd like why would you do
that?

357
00:24:08,200 --> 00:24:11,300
Why would you put them back like
you're obviously running away

358
00:24:11,300 --> 00:24:15,600
from home for a reason?
Like, I don't know if we can say

359
00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:18,700
about previously, protect the
child, protective systems and

360
00:24:18,700 --> 00:24:21,700
staff but he obviously wasn't
doing very well.

361
00:24:23,700 --> 00:24:27,900
Well, you gonna realize that the
way out was trying to or so.

362
00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:31,400
So she went upstairs to her
mother's bedroom, lock the door

363
00:24:31,700 --> 00:24:36,400
and set the bedroom on fire.
After that, they put her in a

364
00:24:36,400 --> 00:24:39,600
psychiatric hospital and someone
at the hospital believed her.

365
00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:44,100
She did continue to attempt
suicide, and she ended up

366
00:24:44,100 --> 00:24:47,700
staying in that hospital.
She's old enough to be released,

367
00:24:48,100 --> 00:24:52,000
she's since healed, and she's
actually healed enough to talk

368
00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:54,300
about this.
But I mean it's so

369
00:24:54,300 --> 00:24:56,400
heartbreaking.
That that's the only way she was

370
00:24:56,400 --> 00:24:58,300
able to get home, right?
Yeah.

371
00:25:00,600 --> 00:25:03,700
Now, by 1970, Anthony's.
Just answering to your high

372
00:25:05,100 --> 00:25:07,400
outside.
He's a shy, skinny kid, it gets

373
00:25:07,400 --> 00:25:10,400
pretty bad grades.
You just wasn't good at school.

374
00:25:11,500 --> 00:25:15,700
He went at most days, you was
just not exceptional and he

375
00:25:15,700 --> 00:25:18,000
lived in a home where nobody was
paying attention.

376
00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:20,600
So he was getting apps that, you
know, your basic English and

377
00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:24,600
math and like beans and like
physical education, he would

378
00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:29,000
join like swim club or golf club
didn't do very well.

379
00:25:29,300 --> 00:25:32,100
He did get, well, you can go
Jess, which he played with his

380
00:25:32,100 --> 00:25:36,500
science teacher and that get
continuous high school, but he

381
00:25:36,500 --> 00:25:38,600
could see you to try, and he was
just never good at anything.

382
00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:41,300
Basketball football baseball.
All.

383
00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:44,700
And then no one really
understood.

384
00:25:44,700 --> 00:25:47,100
Why?
But when we 17, he just quit.

385
00:25:51,600 --> 00:25:53,700
Yep, he made his first
girlfriend Twila, Austin

386
00:25:53,700 --> 00:25:55,900
shortly.
After drop it out, he was 13

387
00:25:55,900 --> 00:25:58,200
years old and a freshman.
She lived in an area called the

388
00:25:58,200 --> 00:26:01,500
hill was considered to be
upscale the time and they were

389
00:26:01,500 --> 00:26:03,400
just walking down the street
from high school.

390
00:26:03,600 --> 00:26:06,100
Anthony was finishing his
paperwork that said, he failed

391
00:26:06,100 --> 00:26:09,600
his junior year and he said, hi
Twila and they just started

392
00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:12,100
hanging out.
She actually liked the things

393
00:26:12,100 --> 00:26:15,400
and he was good at boxing.
He was, she did it look like

394
00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:18,900
athletic police athletically.
He's good chess.

395
00:26:19,200 --> 00:26:21,600
They'd hang out in Claudia's
room when she wasn't home.

396
00:26:21,900 --> 00:26:25,700
They went to movies and she
wasn't sure how but Anthony

397
00:26:25,700 --> 00:26:32,700
always had money for days.
I was typical you know young

398
00:26:32,700 --> 00:26:38,000
relationship.
Now this is 1977 anything's, a

399
00:26:38,008 --> 00:26:40,400
high school.
Dropout Cleveland is a city on

400
00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:43,600
the decline.
People are moving from the city

401
00:26:43,600 --> 00:26:48,200
in droves.
The town's falling apart Twila,

402
00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:49,800
realized how he had all that
money.

403
00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:51,200
Which was that Anthony was a
thief.

404
00:26:51,900 --> 00:26:54,100
He sold stolen goods on the
street.

405
00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:58,500
He had a list of misdemeanors by
the time he was 18 from being

406
00:26:58,500 --> 00:27:01,900
caught, he picked up a drinking
habit, got arrested multiple

407
00:27:01,900 --> 00:27:03,900
times for drunk and disorderly
conduct.

408
00:27:04,100 --> 00:27:06,500
He also stole from people's
houses sold that too.

409
00:27:06,500 --> 00:27:09,500
Sometimes assaulting the
homeowner got arrested for that

410
00:27:09,500 --> 00:27:11,800
too and he managed to avoid
jail.

411
00:27:11,900 --> 00:27:15,400
Time for more of the more
intense crimes and when he

412
00:27:15,408 --> 00:27:18,000
turned 18 he decided it was time
to leave his mom's house.

413
00:27:19,600 --> 00:27:23,900
You'll find this to be a verb
recurring fee when it comes to

414
00:27:23,900 --> 00:27:25,800
serial killers.
What do you think he did?

415
00:27:25,800 --> 00:27:32,800
Next?
He left his mom's house, did he

416
00:27:32,800 --> 00:27:36,900
go in joining the Army?
You bet your bottom dollar?

417
00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:43,300
You join the Army actually, he
was intending on going to the

418
00:27:43,300 --> 00:27:46,100
Army and then he heard that the
Marines were harder.

419
00:27:46,200 --> 00:27:50,700
So he decided to be a memory.
Okay, yep.

420
00:27:50,800 --> 00:27:53,900
What's basic training?
January, 24th 1978 at Parris

421
00:27:53,900 --> 00:27:56,800
Island, South Carolina and a
month after his basic training

422
00:27:56,800 --> 00:27:59,200
started while I found out she's
pregnant.

423
00:27:59,600 --> 00:28:03,100
They were both kind of happy
about it and Julius L was born,

424
00:28:03,100 --> 00:28:08,700
August 1974 Anthony did very
well in basic training.

425
00:28:08,700 --> 00:28:12,200
He was first in his class of 40,
top marks and shooting great.

426
00:28:12,200 --> 00:28:16,800
A hand-to-hand combat became an
electrician at Camp Lejeune and

427
00:28:16,800 --> 00:28:20,200
may of 1978 after getting his
GED and studying electrical

428
00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:24,500
wiring, they moved him to Cherry
Point North Carolina in 1979 and

429
00:28:24,500 --> 00:28:28,200
then in March 1980, who works
for the 2nd Marine Our tract

430
00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:31,800
today, which is an aviation unit
that supports the Marines during

431
00:28:31,800 --> 00:28:34,600
wartime.
And I'm pretty solid that my dad

432
00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:39,100
did that during Vietnam, he
fixed planes on base and

433
00:28:39,100 --> 00:28:40,500
Vietnam.
I'm going to ask him about.

434
00:28:40,500 --> 00:28:45,100
That was pretty cool.
He's next move was to Camp

435
00:28:45,100 --> 00:28:50,800
Smedley Butler in Okinawa Japan.
And while it's can he met Kim

436
00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:54,200
lost?
Say she's a fellow officer and

437
00:28:54,300 --> 00:28:57,300
Anthony considers this to be the
best relationship he's ever

438
00:28:57,300 --> 00:29:01,600
been.
Now Anthony was emotionally.

439
00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:04,400
Stunted from his traumatic
childhood to the point where

440
00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:07,400
like an active affection was the
kind of thing that would bring

441
00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:12,400
out like, violence in him and
can't help him to accept love

442
00:29:12,500 --> 00:29:18,100
and being treated.
Well, They got married, 91 in a

443
00:29:18,108 --> 00:29:21,300
civil ceremony, back in the u.s.
at the Craven County Courthouse

444
00:29:21,300 --> 00:29:25,500
in New Bern North Carolina.
They moved to a small trailer

445
00:29:25,500 --> 00:29:29,700
park off base and that was where
Anthony sustained.

446
00:29:29,700 --> 00:29:34,000
A pretty life-changing injury.
It's not what you think though.

447
00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:38,500
He's coming back home from a
going away party for a fellow

448
00:29:38,500 --> 00:29:40,300
Marine.
What was happening?

449
00:29:40,300 --> 00:29:45,100
Is that his sister Tressa and
his daughter Julia had come down

450
00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:49,500
and They just they wanted to
still give their respects o chem

451
00:29:49,500 --> 00:29:53,100
stayed with the sister and
daughter and he just went to go

452
00:29:53,100 --> 00:29:56,400
say goodbye to his fellow Marine
as he was driving back from that

453
00:29:56,400 --> 00:30:00,100
little bone away party.
The car overheated and he lifted

454
00:30:00,100 --> 00:30:03,600
up the hood and he was kind of
poking around and a hose blew

455
00:30:03,600 --> 00:30:07,300
off hitting him in the face so
fast and he couldn't close his

456
00:30:07,300 --> 00:30:13,100
eyes, the injury caused to
Second and third-degree Burns

457
00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:16,500
and split his eyes.
And I got to tell you, I wanted

458
00:30:16,600 --> 00:30:19,100
to Google that but I don't want
to know what that means.

459
00:30:20,600 --> 00:30:25,700
I have to Google it but continue
flying for three months and they

460
00:30:25,700 --> 00:30:28,300
weren't sure using there and
gain his say when the injury

461
00:30:28,300 --> 00:30:32,700
happened his daughter, they like
he just said them away.

462
00:30:33,900 --> 00:30:36,400
He's didn't one of them dealing
with him while he was injured

463
00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:38,400
cam.
Tried her best to help him, but

464
00:30:38,400 --> 00:30:40,000
he started picking up drinking a
lot.

465
00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:41,900
She was actually worried.
He's going to get discharged

466
00:30:41,900 --> 00:30:44,100
from the Marines, Marines, for
alcoholism.

467
00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:50,500
So 1984 Anthony gets sent back
to Camp Butler in Okinawa.

468
00:30:53,900 --> 00:30:56,700
Kevin Anthony only really got to
live like a married.

469
00:30:56,700 --> 00:31:01,500
Couple for about two years and
then they were sent separate

470
00:31:01,500 --> 00:31:05,500
places.
And then in January of 1985 she

471
00:31:05,500 --> 00:31:07,700
filed for divorce.
The day she left the mine.

472
00:31:09,700 --> 00:31:15,400
Just the physical distance being
listed for the divorce and Kim

473
00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:18,900
loss and actually died in
California in 1988 and then Dust

474
00:31:18,900 --> 00:31:21,100
real accident.
But she didn't really have any

475
00:31:21,100 --> 00:31:23,600
further contact with Anthony
after the divorce.

476
00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:30,900
Now after their divorce, he also
got discharged.

477
00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:33,800
He was finishing up his last bit
of time and Camp Pendleton

478
00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:36,300
California.
Like his son, the military was

479
00:31:36,300 --> 00:31:38,700
great, though.
He got Awards all during the

480
00:31:38,708 --> 00:31:42,300
seven years, he's there Good
Conduct medals with one star, a

481
00:31:42,300 --> 00:31:47,300
meritorious Master ticket, a sea
service deployment ribbon, a

482
00:31:47,300 --> 00:31:50,500
certificate of commendation and
two letters of appreciation.

483
00:31:50,900 --> 00:31:53,500
He was promoted through his time
in the military, he never got

484
00:31:53,500 --> 00:31:57,900
demoted, This local probably the
highlight of his life.

485
00:31:58,500 --> 00:32:03,000
So unlike some serial killers,
you actually go to like Army and

486
00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:04,700
Navy and stuff like that
Marines.

487
00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:06,500
He was actually really good at
it.

488
00:32:06,700 --> 00:32:09,700
And he enjoyed his times of the
year.

489
00:32:09,900 --> 00:32:12,300
I imagine, like for some of the
people we talked about last

490
00:32:12,300 --> 00:32:16,300
year, it was the first place
that Anthony would have

491
00:32:16,300 --> 00:32:21,200
experienced order.
Wyatt.

492
00:32:23,700 --> 00:32:28,300
You know, like when it's lights
out in the barracks, it's lights

493
00:32:28,300 --> 00:32:31,300
out in the barracks, you know,
there's those rules and there's,

494
00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:34,400
you know, and you only get
punished when you actually Break

495
00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:36,200
The Rules.
Not, you know, whenever your

496
00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:39,300
drill sergeant decides, it is
one beat your face in really,

497
00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:43,100
that's a completely different.
So in some ways, it's positive

498
00:32:43,400 --> 00:32:50,100
for some people, but he comes
back to Cleveland and like this

499
00:32:50,100 --> 00:32:56,400
back to normal.
Like many low-income areas in

500
00:32:56,400 --> 00:33:00,300
the u.s. in the 80s.
Cleveland was ravaged by crack

501
00:33:00,300 --> 00:33:05,600
cocaine and for people who don't
know a lot about drugs cocaine

502
00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:09,400
mumbling your smoke crack, you
heat up and then inject directly

503
00:33:09,400 --> 00:33:14,100
into the bloodstream especially
harmful because the speed in

504
00:33:14,100 --> 00:33:18,700
which it gets to your brain.
People who start cocaine get

505
00:33:18,700 --> 00:33:21,500
high, but it can take some time
to do a job and essentially

506
00:33:21,500 --> 00:33:23,700
crackheads so fast that people
are addicted to it.

507
00:33:23,700 --> 00:33:27,000
Just keep trying to get that
same Rush that they got the

508
00:33:27,000 --> 00:33:29,200
first time they injected
themselves.

509
00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:33,200
Now, before going into the
Marines, Anthony been smoking

510
00:33:33,200 --> 00:33:37,900
weed drinking as a total shock
to him, go to come back and see

511
00:33:37,900 --> 00:33:40,100
like the same street.
So he used to walk when he was a

512
00:33:40,108 --> 00:33:45,700
kid that we're safe now, people
just sitting out in the open you

513
00:33:45,700 --> 00:33:48,500
know, smoking crack can also
spoken to sorry.

514
00:33:48,500 --> 00:33:52,300
Yeah, I forgot about that if
you'd like I can heat it in the

515
00:33:52,300 --> 00:33:57,300
little spoon and then inject.
It also sometimes smoke it but

516
00:33:57,300 --> 00:34:00,700
it's not good.
It's what I'm going to say I

517
00:34:00,708 --> 00:34:06,000
feel like it's on par with like
how heroin has been harming

518
00:34:06,300 --> 00:34:10,100
people and like the 2002.
Yeah, yeah.

519
00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:14,000
Sure difference is that crack is
cheap.

520
00:34:15,300 --> 00:34:19,000
Because it gets cut down from
the pure cocaine and so I'll let

521
00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:24,900
you can afford a lot of it.
Whereas heroin cost a lot of

522
00:34:24,900 --> 00:34:26,500
money.
So it's a different

523
00:34:26,699 --> 00:34:30,600
socio-economic bracket.
You would have been in if you

524
00:34:30,600 --> 00:34:32,600
were doing heroin versus
practical.

525
00:34:37,300 --> 00:34:40,699
We also learned during this time
that crack was so addictive.

526
00:34:41,100 --> 00:34:44,500
That women would do anything who
were strung out to get ahead.

527
00:34:45,100 --> 00:34:49,500
I was something he would later
take advantage of but in the

528
00:34:49,500 --> 00:34:52,100
moment he was a jobless man with
a seven-year-old kid.

529
00:34:52,100 --> 00:34:55,699
Be left with her mom and a
family that was still chaotic

530
00:34:55,699 --> 00:34:58,500
and terrified he drank every
day.

531
00:34:58,800 --> 00:35:02,100
He moved back in with his mom on
Page Avenue, where she stayed in

532
00:35:02,100 --> 00:35:04,900
the attic and he met other
women, but none of those

533
00:35:04,900 --> 00:35:06,900
relationships were substantial
or anyway.

534
00:35:07,100 --> 00:35:10,900
But now he liked it so he got
angry.

535
00:35:13,000 --> 00:35:15,800
Now his sister Tressa, he's a
little younger than him said

536
00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:18,600
that he came back from the
Marines more serious and at the

537
00:35:18,600 --> 00:35:23,400
military made him, but I feel
like we can kind of ascertain

538
00:35:23,400 --> 00:35:26,300
that Anthony had a bad streak
before he went to the Marines.

539
00:35:27,000 --> 00:35:29,700
Yes, definitely.
Well, you know I said he went

540
00:35:29,700 --> 00:35:33,700
moved to the attic, right?
Twila and Julie were living in

541
00:35:33,700 --> 00:35:36,900
the Attic.
And he kicked them out.

542
00:35:38,700 --> 00:35:40,800
Oh, he's like you can't stay in
the room with me.

543
00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:44,000
This is our room.
We can't seem to.

544
00:35:44,200 --> 00:35:49,900
Let me just like drink and be
sad.

545
00:35:51,300 --> 00:35:53,400
He actually started snorting
cocaine at this time.

546
00:35:53,400 --> 00:35:55,100
He got arrested for domestic
violence.

547
00:35:55,100 --> 00:35:57,400
And 1988 spent eight days in
prison.

548
00:35:58,100 --> 00:35:59,700
That wasn't his only violent
running.

549
00:36:00,300 --> 00:36:03,000
One time, his sister Tressa was
in an argument with another girl

550
00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:06,300
in the neighborhood and I do
trust is like in her teens and

551
00:36:06,300 --> 00:36:09,700
29, year-old Anthony tells his
other girl, like leave my sister

552
00:36:09,700 --> 00:36:13,100
alone and she kept talking smack
and he's straight-up punch and

553
00:36:13,100 --> 00:36:15,000
teenager girl, a teenage girl in
the face.

554
00:36:15,800 --> 00:36:20,500
Just straight knocked her out.
Ridiculous.

555
00:36:21,700 --> 00:36:23,900
By that point, he was already on
track.

556
00:36:26,700 --> 00:36:30,400
And he approved more criminal
offenses, disorderly conduct

557
00:36:30,400 --> 00:36:35,300
possession, public intoxication.
Now things get worse for him in

558
00:36:35,300 --> 00:36:37,900
1989.
When he refused to let a woman

559
00:36:37,900 --> 00:36:41,400
who's dating the house.
She was three months pregnant

560
00:36:41,400 --> 00:36:43,100
and her name was Mel.
That sock wall.

561
00:36:43,500 --> 00:36:46,800
He bound her hands and feet with
a tie and belt and gagged her.

562
00:36:47,200 --> 00:36:49,100
She would later tell the police
that she thought she was going

563
00:36:49,100 --> 00:36:50,900
to die because she was losing
sensation.

564
00:36:50,900 --> 00:36:54,300
And while her extremities for
this Anthony was charged with

565
00:36:54,300 --> 00:36:56,700
kidnapping, rape and attempted
grade.

566
00:36:56,800 --> 00:36:59,900
He pled guilty to attempted
rapist is the lesser sentence

567
00:37:00,200 --> 00:37:02,200
and was given 15 years in
prison.

568
00:37:06,400 --> 00:37:08,900
Now, you think that's a great.
Great.

569
00:37:08,900 --> 00:37:12,300
I always hear like great was too
terrible in prison, apparently,

570
00:37:12,300 --> 00:37:14,300
not Anthony.
He got along with the other

571
00:37:14,300 --> 00:37:17,200
inmates.
He they kept like, getting him

572
00:37:17,200 --> 00:37:20,600
parole hearings and he didn't
really understand what they

573
00:37:20,600 --> 00:37:23,100
wanted him to do.
The same line kept getting

574
00:37:23,100 --> 00:37:28,100
written in his parole reports
lack of significant program.

575
00:37:28,500 --> 00:37:30,800
And what that means is that he
doesn't understand that he needs

576
00:37:30,800 --> 00:37:34,200
to do certain things within the
prison program to Capital and

577
00:37:34,200 --> 00:37:36,900
they would have him like Fill
out.

578
00:37:36,900 --> 00:37:40,200
These questionnaires to assess
his feelings about his Prime and

579
00:37:40,200 --> 00:37:42,700
is not allowed in general, and
some of them are going to reach

580
00:37:42,700 --> 00:37:44,600
you that are specifically
poignant here.

581
00:37:45,600 --> 00:37:48,600
So it was he like, I feel, I
think, you know, those kinds of

582
00:37:48,607 --> 00:37:51,800
questions and they haven't
filled in says, I feel nothing

583
00:37:51,800 --> 00:37:55,100
at this time of my life.
I suffer no ill feelings.

584
00:37:55,800 --> 00:37:59,300
I failed to get myself out of
trouble and the worst one.

585
00:37:59,500 --> 00:38:06,400
Most women just tell lies. so it
seems in his head, he had blamed

586
00:38:06,400 --> 00:38:12,100
malbet for the fact that he's in
prison, For the fact that you

587
00:38:12,100 --> 00:38:16,100
assaulted me and kidnap, you
didn't let me leave the house,

588
00:38:16,800 --> 00:38:19,700
literally kidnap the pregnant
lady and it's not her fault that

589
00:38:19,700 --> 00:38:22,200
you did that, but whatever not
apparently.

590
00:38:22,200 --> 00:38:28,000
No, it's all her fault.
He had one weird perk, this was

591
00:38:28,000 --> 00:38:30,400
that he was very serious about
how people citizens.

592
00:38:31,100 --> 00:38:35,100
So apparently, some people say
could name like Soul, it's a so

593
00:38:35,100 --> 00:38:39,500
wel L and he portrayed, he
preferred selling for selling,

594
00:38:41,900 --> 00:38:44,300
So that's why I've just been
saying it that way, I don't know

595
00:38:44,300 --> 00:38:47,000
the right way.
Mostly double listening for a

596
00:38:47,000 --> 00:38:52,200
long time.
I destroy names, so it's owl.

597
00:38:52,400 --> 00:38:56,600
It's owl.
So it sounds, he never got

598
00:38:56,600 --> 00:38:59,600
parole.
You never really got the point

599
00:39:00,100 --> 00:39:03,800
and so Monday.
June 20th, 2005, he gets

600
00:39:03,800 --> 00:39:06,400
released from the Lorraine
correctional institute in

601
00:39:06,400 --> 00:39:09,200
Grafton Ohio.
He is 46 years old and his

602
00:39:09,200 --> 00:39:12,200
sister Tressa went to pick him
up. up with all of her children

603
00:39:12,200 --> 00:39:17,700
because she had like seven kids
by now, to the mini mansion

604
00:39:17,700 --> 00:39:21,400
house, he grew up in with his
family gone repossessed because

605
00:39:21,400 --> 00:39:25,000
nobody can pay the mortgage
Everything moved in with his

606
00:39:25,000 --> 00:39:28,700
sister and a few other family
members and the area called

607
00:39:28,700 --> 00:39:31,300
Slavic Village was nine kids,
three adults.

608
00:39:34,600 --> 00:39:38,200
He tried to make himself useful,
like, cooking for people, and

609
00:39:38,200 --> 00:39:41,600
you play, like, Madden with all
the little boy kids.

610
00:39:42,300 --> 00:39:45,600
It was nice, but he moved out a
couple months later into his

611
00:39:45,600 --> 00:39:48,500
stepmothers house.
Sir, Colonel Henderson cell,

612
00:39:49,700 --> 00:39:53,900
Segura was his biological
father's third wife, Thomas L

613
00:39:53,900 --> 00:39:57,600
senior.
Had died while he was in prison.

614
00:39:57,600 --> 00:40:00,700
He actually was 80 years old.
He fell down the steps and 2003,

615
00:40:01,100 --> 00:40:04,900
but his death certificate also
said that he had prostate cancer

616
00:40:05,200 --> 00:40:07,100
heart disease in a seizure
disorder.

617
00:40:07,300 --> 00:40:09,600
So we're not claiming that they
are not claiming the ball.

618
00:40:09,600 --> 00:40:12,000
Is what killed them?
It's the fact that he had three

619
00:40:12,000 --> 00:40:14,400
major illnesses simultaneously
at 18 years.

620
00:40:14,900 --> 00:40:23,300
I mean, Thomas Thomas.
L senior never really had

621
00:40:23,300 --> 00:40:26,000
anything to do with Claudia but
apparently he had reached out.

622
00:40:26,100 --> 00:40:30,200
Out to Anthony at some point and
they talk to each other while he

623
00:40:30,200 --> 00:40:32,100
was in prison.
So Anthony, the other places

624
00:40:32,100 --> 00:40:37,000
said he didn't realize that his
dad died but he actually in that

625
00:40:37,000 --> 00:40:43,100
a Right up the questionnaire.
He wrote very kindly about his

626
00:40:43,100 --> 00:40:46,300
father which I thought was very
surprising considering that he

627
00:40:46,300 --> 00:40:49,000
didn't have any contact with his
dad until he was in his 40s.

628
00:40:49,400 --> 00:40:56,800
All right?
Now that's a Grandma's house.

629
00:40:56,800 --> 00:40:59,900
He was depressed because he got
some letters that said that he

630
00:40:59,900 --> 00:41:05,100
had a registered sex offender.
Which made him one of twelve,

631
00:41:05,100 --> 00:41:08,600
offenders in a 5-mile radius.
And honestly, he was the boat,

632
00:41:08,600 --> 00:41:09,900
pretty.
Humiliated by it.

633
00:41:10,400 --> 00:41:12,800
He thought it was gonna get in
the way of him getting a good

634
00:41:12,800 --> 00:41:16,400
job and he was filing all these
job applications and nobody was

635
00:41:16,400 --> 00:41:22,000
responding and then get a job as
a prep cook at Jacobs Field.

636
00:41:22,100 --> 00:41:23,900
Which is where the Cleveland
Indians played.

637
00:41:24,600 --> 00:41:28,800
Is a really good job actually.
And so, in the middle of the the

638
00:41:28,800 --> 00:41:32,900
summer season, he gets a letter
August 2005 saying that he needs

639
00:41:32,900 --> 00:41:36,800
to go through a sexual predator
evaluation as part of being

640
00:41:36,800 --> 00:41:39,400
monitored for being a sex
offender, which I didn't realize

641
00:41:39,400 --> 00:41:41,300
they do in Ohio.
And I kind of think it's a great

642
00:41:41,300 --> 00:41:44,500
idea that everywhere, actually,
not that.

643
00:41:44,500 --> 00:41:46,900
I didn't realize you had to
check in every couple years.

644
00:41:47,100 --> 00:41:50,300
Oh yeah.
Oh yes, you Brittany.

645
00:41:50,500 --> 00:41:56,700
Yo, let me tell you, I've heard
the I just heard stories.

646
00:41:57,300 --> 00:42:01,400
Of like you know section sex
offenders like not checking in

647
00:42:01,700 --> 00:42:05,700
for a while and like the states.
They don't they don't check up

648
00:42:05,700 --> 00:42:07,600
on them.
Yeah, that's what I heard too.

649
00:42:07,600 --> 00:42:09,800
I was like, people just do what
they want.

650
00:42:09,800 --> 00:42:14,100
Yeah, they don't like they then
they just go and live like

651
00:42:14,100 --> 00:42:18,300
normal lives when, you know, the
reason why you're like register

652
00:42:18,300 --> 00:42:21,300
as a sex offender it, so you
can't live a normal, damn life.

653
00:42:21,500 --> 00:42:25,500
It's like so people know what
you've done and it's a away from

654
00:42:25,500 --> 00:42:30,200
you.
Well, this analysis goes the

655
00:42:30,200 --> 00:42:31,700
word.
It goes as wrong as it could

656
00:42:31,700 --> 00:42:34,500
possibly be.
Go, he shows up for this

657
00:42:34,500 --> 00:42:38,100
meaning, September 1st 2005.
They immediately tell him this

658
00:42:38,100 --> 00:42:40,600
records going to be part of a
public evaluation.

659
00:42:40,900 --> 00:42:42,900
It'll be public.
Like, if anybody looks you up,

660
00:42:42,900 --> 00:42:49,300
they will see this interview.
So, of course, as they ask you

661
00:42:49,300 --> 00:42:51,200
to he, as I asked him questions,
he decides.

662
00:42:51,300 --> 00:42:54,300
I'm not going to be honest about
anything.

663
00:42:56,300 --> 00:42:58,800
Okay.
He told them he grew up in a

664
00:42:58,808 --> 00:43:01,100
crowd of single-parent.
Home said he had a lot of

665
00:43:01,100 --> 00:43:03,200
friends but then he was bullied
and teased.

666
00:43:03,500 --> 00:43:07,000
He of course left out that he
was a sexually violent child and

667
00:43:07,000 --> 00:43:11,100
that he and his nephews watched
and also raped their siblings

668
00:43:11,400 --> 00:43:13,700
and cousins.
He told the therapist he was

669
00:43:13,700 --> 00:43:17,000
never exposed to violence in his
home or school with that.

670
00:43:17,000 --> 00:43:20,700
He just had a bad time.
Now, it was true that he had

671
00:43:20,700 --> 00:43:23,600
never been suspended in school
and he never been fired from any

672
00:43:23,600 --> 00:43:26,600
job.
He told the therapist that he

673
00:43:26,607 --> 00:43:29,400
had admitted to the charge
because he didn't think he had a

674
00:43:29,400 --> 00:43:33,900
good defense, you didn't want a
longer sentence, and when they

675
00:43:33,900 --> 00:43:37,600
interviewed his public defender,
James McDonald, the man was

676
00:43:37,600 --> 00:43:40,300
quoted.
As saying all I can tell you is,

677
00:43:40,300 --> 00:43:48,400
I remember nothing about
represent, so he Told the

678
00:43:48,408 --> 00:43:51,100
therapist that you've been
alcohol before jail for that, he

679
00:43:51,100 --> 00:43:55,300
hadn't had a drink in 50 years
when they discussed Stacks, he

680
00:43:55,300 --> 00:43:58,800
just straight up lot saying,
Twila was his first.

681
00:43:59,700 --> 00:44:03,600
He did tell the people that he
engaged in prostitution while

682
00:44:03,600 --> 00:44:08,500
abroad in the Marines and he did
look at porn to the analysts.

683
00:44:08,500 --> 00:44:11,600
Looked over this interview, he
seemed like a regular dude who

684
00:44:11,607 --> 00:44:13,500
just got a bad break on a rape
case.

685
00:44:14,800 --> 00:44:18,400
And since the u.s. does have an
issue with coercing, innocent

686
00:44:18,400 --> 00:44:22,800
people to admit to crimes, they
didn't do the analyst wrote and

687
00:44:22,800 --> 00:44:25,700
is my opinion that would
reasonable professional

688
00:44:25,700 --> 00:44:29,400
professional certainty, that mr.
Self is not currently present.

689
00:44:29,600 --> 00:44:34,900
The following risk factors most
significantly correlated sexual

690
00:44:34,900 --> 00:44:40,000
offense recidivism.
Now, here's a fun fact for you,

691
00:44:40,000 --> 00:44:43,000
that I learned because I made a
video Tick-Tock and I was very

692
00:44:43,000 --> 00:44:49,300
angry, but the rate at which
sexual offenders reoffend is

693
00:44:49,300 --> 00:44:57,400
roughly 22%.
So, about one in 500, people who

694
00:44:57,700 --> 00:45:02,100
have committed violent offenses
about 36% and here's the worst

695
00:45:02,100 --> 00:45:04,400
one.
People who go to jail for any

696
00:45:04,400 --> 00:45:10,500
reason have a 40 6.45.
Point, six percent, likelihood

697
00:45:10,500 --> 00:45:15,000
of reoffending and suffering.
That's you have horrible

698
00:45:15,000 --> 00:45:16,500
recidivism rates in this
country.

699
00:45:17,300 --> 00:45:19,600
Our prison system.
Does nothing to actually help

700
00:45:19,600 --> 00:45:22,300
people and prepare them for life
out of prison.

701
00:45:22,600 --> 00:45:26,700
This is so true that that just
reminds me of a joke.

702
00:45:26,700 --> 00:45:30,200
Like it's not, it's a joke but
it's not a joke, which is joke.

703
00:45:30,700 --> 00:45:33,100
It's like, you know, someone
going to prison and then they

704
00:45:33,100 --> 00:45:36,400
went right back to prison like a
few months later for doing the

705
00:45:36,400 --> 00:45:39,500
exact goddamn thing.
Yeah, that's one of the things

706
00:45:39,500 --> 00:45:42,100
from the TV show Orange is the
New Black that they really got,

707
00:45:42,100 --> 00:45:44,500
right?
When Casey got out of prison and

708
00:45:44,500 --> 00:45:47,500
she was back like, two months
later and she remember in the

709
00:45:47,500 --> 00:45:49,600
show, she was just like, you
know, I didn't have anywhere to

710
00:45:49,607 --> 00:45:53,200
stay, like I was sleeping on the
floor with like 10 other people

711
00:45:53,400 --> 00:45:58,700
like it's just snow.
Honestly, honestly Anthony had

712
00:45:58,700 --> 00:46:03,000
more than most and a lot of
people who get jail, like he had

713
00:46:03,000 --> 00:46:05,800
a lot more help and people.
Yeah, he had a lot more help.

714
00:46:06,500 --> 00:46:08,400
Yeah.
Well, his job, with the

715
00:46:08,400 --> 00:46:11,400
Cleveland Indians ends, October
2nd, 2005.

716
00:46:11,800 --> 00:46:13,700
He gets another job at a packing
plant.

717
00:46:13,700 --> 00:46:17,200
His next big job is doing
molding injection at a custom.

718
00:46:18,700 --> 00:46:22,100
River.
I think I made a mistake in my

719
00:46:22,100 --> 00:46:25,100
own notes.
Buddies is like molding

720
00:46:25,300 --> 00:46:28,700
injections, at a custom shop, in
March of 2006.

721
00:46:29,000 --> 00:46:33,100
The union job, we make good
money and especially that was

722
00:46:33,100 --> 00:46:37,100
like right before the recession
hit leave as Around town.

723
00:46:37,100 --> 00:46:39,900
He was known as a friendly guy.
You go drinking with you but

724
00:46:39,900 --> 00:46:42,500
nobody ever got close to.
He would entertain people at the

725
00:46:42,500 --> 00:46:44,400
bar with Chad about being a
marine.

726
00:46:44,400 --> 00:46:47,600
His time in prison food storage
travel in the world.

727
00:46:48,500 --> 00:46:51,700
He did make one friend, the
owner of a convenience store

728
00:46:52,700 --> 00:46:57,100
named Sam Taya.
This owner had been pretty kind

729
00:46:57,100 --> 00:47:00,000
to his parents Taylor was from
Jerusalem and he had a rough

730
00:47:00,000 --> 00:47:03,300
time as a foreigner in the area
and the South had taken care of

731
00:47:03,300 --> 00:47:08,000
him and he returned the favor.
And then he gave up a strange

732
00:47:08,000 --> 00:47:12,300
Vibe of being both serious and
intimidating, but also fine.

733
00:47:14,100 --> 00:47:17,100
So when people threatened Taya
after, he had recorded, somebody

734
00:47:17,100 --> 00:47:20,900
selling drugs, to the store,
Anthony Captain died out.

735
00:47:20,900 --> 00:47:25,900
And kind of a Riff Raff.
Moved elsewhere in that could be

736
00:47:25,900 --> 00:47:28,600
in stores.
Where he met the next and last

737
00:47:28,600 --> 00:47:31,400
significant relationship.
Laura Fraser.

738
00:47:32,000 --> 00:47:35,800
Glory was an attitude got into a
lot of trouble with the law

739
00:47:35,800 --> 00:47:39,600
based on her addictions.
She's 37 and had four kids, who

740
00:47:39,600 --> 00:47:44,300
were all with her mother,
because her time in prison, she

741
00:47:44,300 --> 00:47:47,000
was turning tricks for crack.
When Anthony saw her holding a

742
00:47:47,000 --> 00:47:50,700
brown bag with beer and he
offered her something better

743
00:47:50,700 --> 00:47:55,400
than here.
And so, this being a normal like

744
00:47:56,000 --> 00:48:00,400
John and escort relationship,
the two of them realize that

745
00:48:00,400 --> 00:48:05,500
they like each other.
And they ended up just sitting

746
00:48:05,500 --> 00:48:08,200
around having drinks.
Eating some Chinese food.

747
00:48:08,300 --> 00:48:11,200
They went to his house, the
Stepmom was in and out of the

748
00:48:11,200 --> 00:48:14,500
hospital and so Anthony was
currently living on the first

749
00:48:14,500 --> 00:48:17,100
floor at that point and they
start kind of living together

750
00:48:17,100 --> 00:48:21,900
almost right away.
Now when you're in prison for a

751
00:48:21,900 --> 00:48:24,400
long time you don't get access
to the internet.

752
00:48:24,500 --> 00:48:26,200
I know.
Now some prisoners have access

753
00:48:26,200 --> 00:48:28,300
to the internet but not back.
How about that?

754
00:48:29,300 --> 00:48:33,000
They got access to the internet
and cell phones and TVs.

755
00:48:33,000 --> 00:48:36,400
And some of that you got to be
in good behaviour for sure.

756
00:48:36,800 --> 00:48:41,700
Yeah but Anthony got home, he
realized that the internet was

757
00:48:42,500 --> 00:48:44,000
the incident.
Internet wasn't a thing when he

758
00:48:44,000 --> 00:48:48,200
went to prison.
He made an account on certain

759
00:48:48,200 --> 00:48:53,400
alternative sex websites.
Where he was free to talk to

760
00:48:53,400 --> 00:48:55,900
people about these dark fantasy
success.

761
00:48:56,500 --> 00:48:59,100
He he wrote himself as a
dominant looking for a

762
00:48:59,100 --> 00:49:02,000
submissive.
He was active on Black Planet,

763
00:49:02,400 --> 00:49:04,000
both places, he said he was
single.

764
00:49:05,500 --> 00:49:07,700
And he kept telling Lori, he
wanted to bring another woman

765
00:49:07,700 --> 00:49:10,000
into the bedroom.
Lori was like, all right?

766
00:49:12,400 --> 00:49:15,300
Now things are going well for
you, Anthony, and this is the

767
00:49:15,300 --> 00:49:20,100
year that people start noticing
an odd smell 2006 Laurie,

768
00:49:20,100 --> 00:49:23,100
brought it up to him first, and
he told her it was his stepmom

769
00:49:23,500 --> 00:49:25,500
at this point.
He had moved up to the third

770
00:49:25,500 --> 00:49:28,500
floor and there was another
family on the second floor and

771
00:49:28,500 --> 00:49:31,300
his mom was on the first, so he
was blaming it on her being my

772
00:49:31,300 --> 00:49:33,500
bed, rest?
Yeah.

773
00:49:33,500 --> 00:49:35,900
Then the, this, the middle
family assumed that it was an

774
00:49:35,900 --> 00:49:38,500
animal that had crawled up under
the house and died.

775
00:49:39,200 --> 00:49:41,900
He told his nephews, who came to
visit that the basement Florida?

776
00:49:43,000 --> 00:49:45,600
The neighbors, blamed it on
Race, sausage, that was next

777
00:49:45,600 --> 00:49:47,500
door.
The City Health Department is

778
00:49:47,500 --> 00:49:50,100
getting complaints non-stop like
somebody even said to the

779
00:49:50,100 --> 00:49:51,700
police.
It smells like there's a dead

780
00:49:51,700 --> 00:49:55,200
body on this block.
Oh, God.

781
00:49:55,400 --> 00:49:58,500
Now Renee cash and inherited,
kind of the business from her

782
00:49:58,500 --> 00:50:02,800
family and she ran it with her
siblings and she was, they were

783
00:50:02,800 --> 00:50:07,500
running Ray sausage, so the
health department required them

784
00:50:07,800 --> 00:50:11,500
to pretty much rip up the ground
in front of the plant and change

785
00:50:11,500 --> 00:50:16,700
out all of the greats. it's
where the leftovers and blood

786
00:50:16,700 --> 00:50:19,600
and stuff.
One cost the cost, the company

787
00:50:19,600 --> 00:50:23,300
thirty thousand dollars, God and
nothing changed.

788
00:50:24,400 --> 00:50:27,000
The the health department was
constantly checking the shop for

789
00:50:27,000 --> 00:50:30,400
cleanliness, nothing fat when I
was ever found and that's of

790
00:50:30,400 --> 00:50:32,400
course because it wasn't raised
sausage.

791
00:50:35,200 --> 00:50:38,700
Smoke was the only started when
Ray and when Lori and Anthony

792
00:50:38,700 --> 00:50:42,100
were on the Rocks.
So boring.

793
00:50:42,100 --> 00:50:44,700
It was always a crack at it but
she had a rule.

794
00:50:46,000 --> 00:50:48,400
We can't be together if you use
crack too.

795
00:50:50,000 --> 00:50:53,100
And Anthony hit it from her and
she realized something was wrong

796
00:50:53,500 --> 00:50:56,400
and slowly dealers and other
people would show up to the

797
00:50:56,400 --> 00:51:00,400
house at random times, they
started fighting over, who was

798
00:51:00,400 --> 00:51:02,900
getting one from which dealer,
who was using more, who was

799
00:51:02,900 --> 00:51:06,300
spending more of their money.
Those arguments within the

800
00:51:06,300 --> 00:51:11,500
violent fights between the
couple By June of 2006, Anthony

801
00:51:11,500 --> 00:51:13,800
doesn't even have the money to
pay for a stepmother.

802
00:51:14,100 --> 00:51:17,500
Like Rank and Sabrina was
actually trying to kick him out

803
00:51:17,500 --> 00:51:19,600
because she realized he was
using drugs.

804
00:51:22,400 --> 00:51:27,000
The first of the major breakups
happened shortly after that when

805
00:51:27,000 --> 00:51:31,100
Anthony got three thousand
dollars from his tax return and

806
00:51:31,100 --> 00:51:36,200
Lori came home to a house party
with kids as young as 12 at

807
00:51:36,200 --> 00:51:41,700
right, 15 kids were as young as
15 all over the house, drinking

808
00:51:41,700 --> 00:51:46,800
doing drugs.
Oh my God, people in the house.

809
00:51:46,800 --> 00:51:49,700
Like people to go are like okay.
She said one point there were

810
00:51:49,707 --> 00:51:53,200
like kids down behind the
furnace like Like in up.

811
00:51:55,000 --> 00:51:57,200
Mhm.
And then like, she's trying to

812
00:51:57,200 --> 00:51:59,500
look for Anthony.
He will like, he's not here and

813
00:51:59,500 --> 00:52:03,500
so she saw it like, it was a
very public like humiliation.

814
00:52:03,800 --> 00:52:05,200
She went back to her sister's
place.

815
00:52:05,200 --> 00:52:08,900
You, she's really upset.
This was start, their on-again

816
00:52:08,900 --> 00:52:11,400
off-again status that went on
for quite some time.

817
00:52:11,800 --> 00:52:14,700
They would go back to date.
They start fighting again.

818
00:52:14,700 --> 00:52:19,400
Anthony tell her to leave.
The family on the second floor

819
00:52:19,400 --> 00:52:23,300
where the prompt is.
So it's middle of 2006.

820
00:52:25,100 --> 00:52:28,200
Palm Bay is go downstairs and
they see a piece of shirt tied

821
00:52:28,200 --> 00:52:31,200
to one of their cars and for
people who didn't grow up in the

822
00:52:31,200 --> 00:52:34,500
hood, this is a sign that drugs
are being sold at the property

823
00:52:34,800 --> 00:52:38,700
where the house where the car is
the pompey's are like, you know

824
00:52:38,700 --> 00:52:43,800
what, I have had enough and they
move out leaving his stepmother

825
00:52:43,800 --> 00:52:53,100
on the first floor, and him on
the third Now, winter of 2007.

826
00:52:53,100 --> 00:52:57,000
So just after the season turn
Anthony suffers a heart attack

827
00:52:57,000 --> 00:53:00,800
and he doesn't realize that he
just realizes that he's sick.

828
00:53:02,600 --> 00:53:07,000
He doesn't go to the VA for like
three weeks.

829
00:53:07,500 --> 00:53:11,000
And by the time, they look at
him, that he suffered major

830
00:53:11,000 --> 00:53:14,900
heart damage, He also was
dealing with atrial

831
00:53:14,900 --> 00:53:18,000
fibrillation, which is when your
heart randomly just speeds up

832
00:53:18,000 --> 00:53:22,200
for no reason.
It took until February 26.

833
00:53:22,200 --> 00:53:23,800
Well, I'm not even at by
February 26.

834
00:53:23,800 --> 00:53:26,600
They thought he was dying.
Man's it up giving him a

835
00:53:26,600 --> 00:53:29,200
temporary pacemaker and it
actually worked, but they

836
00:53:29,200 --> 00:53:31,100
weren't sure that the pacemaker
was going to stop

837
00:53:31,100 --> 00:53:34,100
defibrillation.
They told him he was going to

838
00:53:34,100 --> 00:53:37,500
need therapy, but they weren't
going to pay for it because

839
00:53:37,500 --> 00:53:41,500
that's how the VA treats
veterans and the bill for the

840
00:53:41,500 --> 00:53:44,200
multiple pacemakers and
everything.

841
00:53:45,500 --> 00:53:50,100
Was two hundred thousand dollars
and we're God, mmm?

842
00:53:50,200 --> 00:53:53,000
What she obviously didn't have.
He never went to therapy for his

843
00:53:53,000 --> 00:53:55,700
heart.
He ended up having another small

844
00:53:55,700 --> 00:53:59,000
attack at the machine is job,
and he had to quit.

845
00:54:00,800 --> 00:54:03,600
Now, he and Lori are on that.
She would disappear for days, on

846
00:54:03,600 --> 00:54:06,500
end, for kids won't even know
where she was, and they would

847
00:54:06,500 --> 00:54:11,200
call him and be like, where's
mom?

848
00:54:11,400 --> 00:54:14,000
And then he would be mad at her
when she came back and you be

849
00:54:14,000 --> 00:54:15,800
like, yo, your kids are calling
me crying.

850
00:54:15,800 --> 00:54:19,100
Like, what are you doing?
Yeah, she's like mind your

851
00:54:19,100 --> 00:54:22,100
business.
Well, it's kind of my business

852
00:54:22,100 --> 00:54:25,100
now, because your kids are,
like, involving me in this.

853
00:54:25,700 --> 00:54:30,200
I know, I know, You start using
again, despite the fact that the

854
00:54:30,207 --> 00:54:33,400
man has a heart condition and
should not be doing any sort of

855
00:54:33,400 --> 00:54:39,800
major drugs.
And these first victim was May

856
00:54:39,800 --> 00:54:41,900
of 2007.
She went missing on Mother's

857
00:54:41,900 --> 00:54:46,200
Day, my name is Crystal Dozier
Christmas.

858
00:54:46,200 --> 00:54:50,800
I knew that his mommy's drugs
and he even reported the fact

859
00:54:50,800 --> 00:54:55,700
that she went to Anthony
sowell's house to score, but the

860
00:54:55,700 --> 00:54:59,100
police never filed a report and
never checked campus house.

861
00:55:02,400 --> 00:55:08,700
June of 2007.
He ramps up in Cleveland, the

862
00:55:08,700 --> 00:55:11,400
bad smell start.
Again people call the health

863
00:55:11,400 --> 00:55:14,200
department over.
Another nothing comes from it.

864
00:55:14,400 --> 00:55:19,100
Now that same month Sam Taya,
has that corner store on the

865
00:55:19,100 --> 00:55:25,900
Block, one of his employees,
says, like, yo, there's

866
00:55:25,900 --> 00:55:31,000
something nasty out in the
dumpster.

867
00:55:32,600 --> 00:55:38,700
So, He goes out there and he
sees these like two packages,

868
00:55:39,200 --> 00:55:42,100
they like wrapped up in plastic
so you can't tell what they are

869
00:55:42,400 --> 00:55:46,400
but there's like it smells awful
like death and there's flies

870
00:55:46,400 --> 00:55:51,100
around there and then he's just
like I don't have time for this

871
00:55:51,100 --> 00:55:52,400
right now.
I'll check it later.

872
00:55:52,400 --> 00:55:54,600
Get I'll take a check it later
later.

873
00:55:54,600 --> 00:55:56,300
That day, the dump trucks take
it away.

874
00:55:56,900 --> 00:56:01,800
It's never thought about it now,
the rest of 2007, nothing else

875
00:56:01,800 --> 00:56:05,600
happens.
But in early 2008, Lori comes

876
00:56:05,600 --> 00:56:09,000
home and finds the like the
entire third floor.

877
00:56:09,000 --> 00:56:11,300
Apartment.
Covered in blood like walls

878
00:56:11,300 --> 00:56:14,600
floor bed.
He had tried to clean it up some

879
00:56:14,600 --> 00:56:18,000
and he just told her that
someone had tried to Rob him and

880
00:56:18,000 --> 00:56:20,300
they got into a fight with a
person when they're gone.

881
00:56:21,300 --> 00:56:23,300
Yeah.
Gone.

882
00:56:23,800 --> 00:56:26,900
Huh, in February?
She checks on Anthony again.

883
00:56:27,000 --> 00:56:31,100
He has a neck wound, so deep.
You can see the like the white

884
00:56:31,100 --> 00:56:33,400
meat his neck.
He told her he'd been attacked

885
00:56:33,400 --> 00:56:35,400
while he was scrapping an
abandoned house.

886
00:56:36,300 --> 00:56:39,300
Now, here's the thing.
Like, I list these in here as

887
00:56:39,300 --> 00:56:43,700
the victims, that we know what
it is, considering the bad smell

888
00:56:43,700 --> 00:56:48,900
started in 2006, and he had
multiple events like this, that

889
00:56:48,900 --> 00:56:51,800
we don't have any correlation to
a missing person.

890
00:56:52,400 --> 00:56:55,700
There is the belief that he had
more victims.

891
00:56:58,500 --> 00:57:00,400
And that these were people who
fought back.

892
00:57:02,900 --> 00:57:10,500
And either, they were rape
victims who never told on him or

893
00:57:11,600 --> 00:57:14,400
these are people, he murdered
and he just supposed of them in

894
00:57:14,400 --> 00:57:19,600
other ways like the dumpster.
A month later.

895
00:57:19,700 --> 00:57:25,700
March now, Lori's like you gets
attacked again this time near

896
00:57:25,700 --> 00:57:28,700
Woodland Hills Park Lori doesn't
really have time to focus on him

897
00:57:28,700 --> 00:57:30,400
to there's a warrant out for her
arrest.

898
00:57:30,500 --> 00:57:33,500
She gets caught March 6, 2008
and ends up having the battle

899
00:57:33,500 --> 00:57:35,700
with the courts until August of
2008.

900
00:57:35,900 --> 00:57:38,600
Strangely enough go Anthony
supports her the whole way

901
00:57:38,700 --> 00:57:42,800
testifies for her is just like
she's one of a person, you know

902
00:57:42,800 --> 00:57:45,800
she really helped me when I got
out of prison, yada yada yada.

903
00:57:46,000 --> 00:57:47,700
So she ends up not going to
jail.

904
00:57:48,600 --> 00:57:53,700
But she didn't go back to you.
He was very upset, he backed up

905
00:57:53,700 --> 00:57:56,000
all of her stuff and she like
dropped it off at a friend's

906
00:57:56,000 --> 00:57:57,700
house.
And by the time she got, when

907
00:57:57,700 --> 00:57:59,700
she went to the friend's house,
she opened the bag and

908
00:57:59,700 --> 00:58:04,100
everything was cut, cut up into
pieces, honey.

909
00:58:05,100 --> 00:58:08,600
I think it's worry broke up with
him because she heard that while

910
00:58:08,600 --> 00:58:12,600
she was in like, can do, he was
having women over the house and

911
00:58:12,600 --> 00:58:16,500
he was women who he murdered,
she know about that part yet,

912
00:58:16,500 --> 00:58:19,100
but yet she's you'll find out.
This week.

913
00:58:19,900 --> 00:58:22,100
Well, the second victim was to
show Nicole over and she was

914
00:58:22,100 --> 00:58:26,900
last seen May 21st 2008.
Almost all of Anthony's victims.

915
00:58:27,200 --> 00:58:30,400
It's the same Emma.
They come from broken homes.

916
00:58:30,400 --> 00:58:32,800
Have, horrible lives that lead
to drug addiction criminal

917
00:58:32,800 --> 00:58:35,700
prosecution, which make them
people that no one is really

918
00:58:35,700 --> 00:58:38,300
looking after Shauna was the
same day.

919
00:58:38,900 --> 00:58:44,200
She had a domestic violence
charge with her ex she was part

920
00:58:44,200 --> 00:58:47,800
of a work release program and
then she just disappeared and

921
00:58:47,800 --> 00:58:50,300
the courts.
Just decided but oh, she must

922
00:58:50,300 --> 00:58:52,500
have just skipped and she's
gone.

923
00:58:54,100 --> 00:58:57,400
All they know is that at some
point, she left work, she met

924
00:58:57,400 --> 00:59:00,800
Anthony went to his house and
never came out.

925
00:59:04,500 --> 00:59:07,200
His third victim was respond to
what was Sean along.

926
00:59:07,500 --> 00:59:11,100
She was a Cleveland native with
a long history of abuse drug

927
00:59:11,100 --> 00:59:16,200
abuse drug convictions.
She had stopped returning her

928
00:59:16,200 --> 00:59:20,400
family's called and may of 2008
but she was living with a

929
00:59:20,400 --> 00:59:25,600
boyfriend and obviously of 2008.
Her boyfriend obviously, didn't

930
00:59:25,600 --> 00:59:31,000
give too much of a damn because
all they did was make up flyers

931
00:59:31,000 --> 00:59:32,500
and put them all around the
neighborhood.

932
00:59:32,500 --> 00:59:34,700
She was never officially filed
as a missing person.

933
00:59:35,400 --> 00:59:39,300
Wow.
Not Anthony kidnapped and failed

934
00:59:39,300 --> 00:59:41,900
to kill the Nessa gay and
September of 2008.

935
00:59:42,200 --> 00:59:45,100
She met him on the street.
Sometime in August that you were

936
00:59:45,100 --> 00:59:47,500
familiar with each other.
We get high together from time

937
00:59:47,500 --> 00:59:49,500
to time, but he never made a
move to her.

938
00:59:49,700 --> 00:59:52,000
And so he invited her to his
house on his birthday.

939
00:59:52,000 --> 00:59:55,900
August 19th.
He attacked him in the home and

940
00:59:55,900 --> 00:59:59,700
tried to choke her with an
extension cord.

941
01:00:01,900 --> 01:00:04,400
So that he could rape her and
that's was able to fight him

942
01:00:04,400 --> 01:00:06,200
off.
She never spoke about this to

943
01:00:06,200 --> 01:00:09,400
anybody until he was arrested
because she didn't believe that.

944
01:00:09,400 --> 01:00:13,600
Anybody would believe her.
She would later tell detectives

945
01:00:13,600 --> 01:00:15,300
that the same night.
She was attacked.

946
01:00:15,300 --> 01:00:22,700
She saw a decapitated head that
was his Emma, choke them.

947
01:00:22,900 --> 01:00:28,300
Rape them, Hilda, His fourth
victim was Michelle Mason

948
01:00:28,600 --> 01:00:31,900
missing in October of 2008, just
like the Shonda, Michelle's

949
01:00:31,900 --> 01:00:33,800
family, pepper, the neighborhood
photos.

950
01:00:34,200 --> 01:00:36,100
They knew that she'd been
hanging out with Anthony and

951
01:00:36,100 --> 01:00:40,100
they didn't want her to be near
him, her parents even mentioned

952
01:00:40,100 --> 01:00:41,900
to the cops.
This man that she's hanging out

953
01:00:41,900 --> 01:00:45,500
with his infected sex offender,
but they told the family that

954
01:00:45,500 --> 01:00:47,400
this wasn't enough evidence to
get a search.

955
01:00:54,100 --> 01:00:55,200
Sorry.
Yeah.

956
01:00:55,200 --> 01:00:57,600
Well, that's number five, Tommy
Carmichael.

957
01:00:57,600 --> 01:01:01,700
Her parents realized she was
missing in November of 2008,

958
01:01:01,700 --> 01:01:05,600
which disclose at responding to
them and she showed she wasn't

959
01:01:05,600 --> 01:01:09,600
even from Cleveland.
But that they knew that she was

960
01:01:09,600 --> 01:01:12,300
there.
So they cross they come to

961
01:01:12,300 --> 01:01:14,200
Cleveland.
They show up at the Warrenville

962
01:01:14,200 --> 01:01:16,800
police station on November 2008.
They ask you.

963
01:01:16,800 --> 01:01:19,500
They could submit a part A
submitting a couple missing

964
01:01:19,500 --> 01:01:22,300
persons report for some reason,
they don't do it.

965
01:01:22,500 --> 01:01:26,600
And so the family starts their
own search for her people on the

966
01:01:26,600 --> 01:01:29,800
Block say, like yo, we saw her
around Imperial street which is

967
01:01:29,800 --> 01:01:33,400
the street where Anthony lived.
Her mom goes to try and follow a

968
01:01:33,408 --> 01:01:36,600
report at the fourth district
station which covers Imperial

969
01:01:36,600 --> 01:01:40,100
street.
And they won't take a report.

970
01:01:41,700 --> 01:01:44,000
Cleveland Police deny this
behemoth.

971
01:01:45,800 --> 01:01:48,300
Her mother, find your missing
car.

972
01:01:48,400 --> 01:01:52,000
You're the corner of 118th
Street and Ken's New Street

973
01:01:52,000 --> 01:01:55,700
which is about a 10-minute walk
to Anthony sowell's house.

974
01:01:57,300 --> 01:01:58,900
Sighing.
Islam goes back to the 4th

975
01:01:58,900 --> 01:02:03,200
District, and it's just like she
was obviously in your District,

976
01:02:03,200 --> 01:02:07,300
her cars here, like, help us
out, and the fourth district

977
01:02:07,400 --> 01:02:09,800
police, tell her no go back to
Warren's.

978
01:02:09,800 --> 01:02:12,400
Bill filed, a missing persons
report there because you said,

979
01:02:12,400 --> 01:02:17,400
that's where she was living, but
she was here, she ended up

980
01:02:17,600 --> 01:02:21,100
missing here.
So when y'all do the search

981
01:02:21,100 --> 01:02:24,400
here, right?
Well, Warren's will take the

982
01:02:24,400 --> 01:02:28,500
report, but this time so much
time has passed. past that like

983
01:02:28,900 --> 01:02:32,800
you're starting a week behind
when people go missing, you got

984
01:02:32,800 --> 01:02:38,200
24 hours to do something to find
people, like 24 hours or 48

985
01:02:38,200 --> 01:02:43,600
hours and you got you're
definitely behind on that and

986
01:02:43,800 --> 01:02:45,900
it's sorry.
No, you're fine.

987
01:02:46,500 --> 01:02:48,900
I was going to say it's just
funny, like yeah.

988
01:02:48,900 --> 01:02:52,900
All these people that are coming
like hey my family member is

989
01:02:52,900 --> 01:02:57,500
missing and it just happens to
be around the same area, right?

990
01:02:57,500 --> 01:03:00,900
No one's making a issue that
like women are going missing

991
01:03:00,900 --> 01:03:05,600
left and right specifically
around here you'll Street yeah.

992
01:03:07,700 --> 01:03:11,500
Looking like a several block
radius, but regardless, just

993
01:03:11,500 --> 01:03:15,200
like the other women time
passes, Sonya's, forgotten.

994
01:03:17,700 --> 01:03:20,700
Now, Gladys Wade, would be the
second woman who survived her

995
01:03:20,700 --> 01:03:23,700
encounter with Anthony?
That we know of that happened.

996
01:03:23,700 --> 01:03:27,200
December of 2008, lot of was a
hardcore crack addict who had

997
01:03:27,200 --> 01:03:29,900
actually dropped in a college.
Just before she was done.

998
01:03:30,400 --> 01:03:35,000
Like the two months before she
was finished, because she was so

999
01:03:35,000 --> 01:03:37,200
addicted to drugs.
That's what it does to you man.

1000
01:03:37,200 --> 01:03:40,500
Like there's some stuff not even
once not even once.

1001
01:03:40,700 --> 01:03:44,400
No heroin no crack will cocaine.
No Molly drugs.

1002
01:03:44,400 --> 01:03:47,700
But you can like have horrible
side effects of First time you

1003
01:03:47,700 --> 01:03:54,400
take them not even once.
Yeah December 8. 2008 she'd

1004
01:03:54,400 --> 01:03:58,300
actually just gotten out of
County Jail, her and her

1005
01:03:58,300 --> 01:04:00,700
boyfriend got in trouble for
attacking the Apartments

1006
01:04:00,700 --> 01:04:04,300
maintenance, man.
Now Gladys had a sister.

1007
01:04:06,100 --> 01:04:10,100
Her sister was Twyla.
And so after she gets out of

1008
01:04:10,107 --> 01:04:13,900
jail, she goes to visit to Iowa,
that's the mother of Anthony's

1009
01:04:13,900 --> 01:04:17,500
child.
She stopped at the corner store

1010
01:04:17,500 --> 01:04:21,100
on Imperial and 123rd Street.
And that's where she met

1011
01:04:21,100 --> 01:04:22,800
Anthony.
He offered to buy her a beer.

1012
01:04:22,800 --> 01:04:27,000
She was like, no thanks.
And as he was leaving the area,

1013
01:04:27,100 --> 01:04:30,800
he grabbed her from behind a
Chokehold cutting off her hair,

1014
01:04:30,800 --> 01:04:32,700
she passed out and took her into
the house.

1015
01:04:33,600 --> 01:04:38,300
As soon as she woke up she
started screaming as Anthony is

1016
01:04:38,300 --> 01:04:41,500
like yelling at her.
Take off her clothes she like

1017
01:04:41,500 --> 01:04:44,900
Gladys fought back viciously.
The two of them falling down

1018
01:04:44,900 --> 01:04:47,200
like the first flight of stairs
from the third to the second

1019
01:04:47,200 --> 01:04:49,200
floor.
During the encounter her hand

1020
01:04:49,200 --> 01:04:52,400
goes through a glass, pane
causing a laceration in her

1021
01:04:52,400 --> 01:04:54,700
hand.
There's blood everywhere, they

1022
01:04:54,700 --> 01:04:57,000
fall down another flight of
steps before, Anthony, it's just

1023
01:04:57,000 --> 01:05:02,700
like this is too much.
She runs across the street to

1024
01:05:02,707 --> 01:05:04,600
the pizza place.
They call the police.

1025
01:05:04,600 --> 01:05:06,600
They didn't want her to be in
the building because she was

1026
01:05:06,600 --> 01:05:09,800
like just bleeding everywhere.
Yeah.

1027
01:05:11,100 --> 01:05:14,300
The police, she overhears
Anthony telling neighbors that

1028
01:05:14,300 --> 01:05:17,900
some woman had tried to Rob him
and he hit her and that's why

1029
01:05:17,900 --> 01:05:23,500
there's blood in the snow.
Gladys takes off running into

1030
01:05:23,500 --> 01:05:26,400
the night, so she finds another
set of cops and they get her

1031
01:05:26,400 --> 01:05:29,300
Nancy, they take her testimony
that night.

1032
01:05:29,300 --> 01:05:34,500
They take Anthony hands cuffed
Well, here was that he had

1033
01:05:34,500 --> 01:05:36,200
actually had succeeded in doing
either.

1034
01:05:39,100 --> 01:05:41,600
There was a record.
He raped somebody in the past.

1035
01:05:42,900 --> 01:05:46,100
Yeah but he can only drug her
off the street to so it wasn't

1036
01:05:47,000 --> 01:05:52,900
you're not wrong but he was
removed based on he was released

1037
01:05:52,900 --> 01:05:57,800
based on something called a
straight and relief. and

1038
01:05:57,800 --> 01:06:02,500
honestly Gladys had never heard
of that ever happening before,

1039
01:06:02,500 --> 01:06:08,400
but it is a political thing
where Essentially.

1040
01:06:10,100 --> 01:06:15,700
It was a 24-hour that you have
24 hours to get the charges

1041
01:06:15,700 --> 01:06:18,500
together or they release the
criminal.

1042
01:06:20,200 --> 01:06:22,900
This was something that only
existed in Cleveland in the 90s

1043
01:06:23,400 --> 01:06:28,400
and like the early 2000s and the
problem was with the straight

1044
01:06:28,400 --> 01:06:31,100
releases that criminals will use
aliases, which hindered the

1045
01:06:31,100 --> 01:06:36,000
indictment process, they slide
and it took the police too long.

1046
01:06:36,000 --> 01:06:38,400
Like they missed the 24 hour
window and the person will not

1047
01:06:38,400 --> 01:06:40,100
release.
That's exactly what happened

1048
01:06:40,100 --> 01:06:43,500
here.
When they failed to be able to

1049
01:06:43,500 --> 01:06:46,400
come up with enough evidence to
prove that, like it was he said,

1050
01:06:46,400 --> 01:06:51,000
see, like he said, she said they
released him on December 10th.

1051
01:06:51,400 --> 01:06:53,200
They said, Gladys wasn't a
credible Witness.

1052
01:06:58,500 --> 01:07:01,500
But the number six is Tim Smith.
She went by the name Candy on

1053
01:07:01,500 --> 01:07:04,500
the street.
What messing January 17th 2009?

1054
01:07:04,800 --> 01:07:06,700
She lives with her dad and
actually, they were really

1055
01:07:06,700 --> 01:07:10,000
close.
She gone out for a night of like

1056
01:07:10,000 --> 01:07:13,500
fun and she never came home.
Her dad, Donald Smith like

1057
01:07:13,500 --> 01:07:16,900
absolutely love the crap out of
his daughter, but she developed

1058
01:07:16,900 --> 01:07:20,100
a drug problem in college.
She actually worked Street

1059
01:07:20,100 --> 01:07:24,300
around Imperial and she went
missing while she was working.

1060
01:07:24,400 --> 01:07:29,600
Again.
He put out a reward for 500

1061
01:07:29,600 --> 01:07:33,700
dollars for information for his
daughter, but he never contacted

1062
01:07:33,700 --> 01:07:35,900
Cleveland police because he
didn't believe in their ability

1063
01:07:35,900 --> 01:07:43,300
to help him find his daughter.
I mean you wrong there but yeah

1064
01:07:44,300 --> 01:07:47,100
there's a law in kidnappings
after this probably because of

1065
01:07:47,107 --> 01:07:49,500
the fight we thought us and the
subsequent arrest.

1066
01:07:49,900 --> 01:07:53,100
So I think he was trying to be a
little bit more Discerning but

1067
01:07:53,100 --> 01:07:57,000
either way, no one goes missing
until again until April.

1068
01:07:59,100 --> 01:08:03,300
That tiny dots escaped in April
and Imelda Hunter and Nancy

1069
01:08:03,300 --> 01:08:07,200
Cobbs both disappeared in April.
So things are ramping up now.

1070
01:08:07,200 --> 01:08:10,800
Tanya Das have been an ex of
Anthony's before he dated Lori

1071
01:08:11,300 --> 01:08:15,400
and I guess she had fixed in her
head that she was gonna get him

1072
01:08:15,400 --> 01:08:19,500
back.
So they started like being, you

1073
01:08:19,500 --> 01:08:21,700
know, nice to each other.
Can she come see him in the

1074
01:08:21,700 --> 01:08:24,700
hole?
April 21st.

1075
01:08:24,700 --> 01:08:26,000
Everything's gone.
Cool.

1076
01:08:26,100 --> 01:08:29,700
They smoked they watch the game
and then just one moment.

1077
01:08:29,700 --> 01:08:31,899
When time is not paying
attention he's straight up like

1078
01:08:31,899 --> 01:08:34,899
knocks her down on the bed, she
described it as like Jacqueline

1079
01:08:34,899 --> 01:08:41,300
high and she opted to comply
instead of fight and the

1080
01:08:41,300 --> 01:08:43,399
following morning she told him
she had to go check on her

1081
01:08:43,399 --> 01:08:48,700
granddaughter and let her go.
Tanya never told the police

1082
01:08:49,000 --> 01:08:51,500
because she was worried that she
get arrested because they both

1083
01:08:51,500 --> 01:08:53,200
been smoking.
Crack it right there.

1084
01:08:53,500 --> 01:08:56,800
And tone that is.
Hey, this guy's all to me.

1085
01:08:58,600 --> 01:09:02,300
Last time, Imelda country was
seen was a few days before.

1086
01:09:02,300 --> 01:09:07,700
Tanya's tack on April 18.
Imelda was also an addict and

1087
01:09:07,700 --> 01:09:11,500
she had an adult son who went to
all her old Hangouts and her

1088
01:09:11,500 --> 01:09:15,100
that she had been at the houses
across the street, from the

1089
01:09:15,100 --> 01:09:18,899
pizza place on Imperial.
Similar to Kim Smith, dad,

1090
01:09:19,000 --> 01:09:21,800
Imelda tried to find his mom on
his own, never filed.

1091
01:09:21,800 --> 01:09:26,700
A police report because He was
just like screw thoughts his fan

1092
01:09:26,700 --> 01:09:28,500
him and the rest of the family
kind of peppered the

1093
01:09:28,500 --> 01:09:30,500
neighborhood, the Flyers about
amalga.

1094
01:09:31,300 --> 01:09:34,800
Now here's the one that really
like kind of wow I feel bad

1095
01:09:34,800 --> 01:09:37,500
about this foot.
Tanya had a best friend.

1096
01:09:38,800 --> 01:09:43,800
Her best friend was Nancy Cobb.
and so, after the assault that

1097
01:09:43,800 --> 01:09:52,300
takes place on April 21st, Tanya
tells Nancy that Anthony raped

1098
01:09:52,300 --> 01:09:54,900
her and she's just like, you
know, it was crazy.

1099
01:09:59,200 --> 01:10:02,800
Nancy just assumes that maybe he
just got too high, he freaked

1100
01:10:02,800 --> 01:10:05,400
out and like his look, real
aggressive during sex.

1101
01:10:05,400 --> 01:10:09,400
Whatever Nancy goes, missing,
April 29th, 2009.

1102
01:10:12,800 --> 01:10:17,900
This her friend, like I don't
know, maybe report this to the

1103
01:10:17,900 --> 01:10:21,600
police or me.
Well, not only did Nancy's

1104
01:10:21,600 --> 01:10:26,200
family report her to the police.
Nancy story was on the news but

1105
01:10:26,200 --> 01:10:31,100
nobody had any idea where she
was that made the game seven and

1106
01:10:31,200 --> 01:10:35,100
eight.
The next tax happened, about two

1107
01:10:35,100 --> 01:10:36,800
months ago.
June of 2009.

1108
01:10:37,000 --> 01:10:40,300
Pick the ninth Alicia forts in,
just like all of our other

1109
01:10:40,300 --> 01:10:43,600
victims troubled past starting
in adolescence, she went

1110
01:10:43,600 --> 01:10:46,900
missing, just after visiting,
the Imperial Corner Store,

1111
01:10:47,500 --> 01:10:51,400
Anthony's block, her mother
Inez, reported her, missing to

1112
01:10:51,400 --> 01:10:56,400
the East Cleveland police, and
they gave her a list of morgues

1113
01:10:56,600 --> 01:10:59,900
hospitals and other police
departments to go.

1114
01:10:59,900 --> 01:11:05,500
Call boy, no.
I thought you would find that

1115
01:11:05,500 --> 01:11:06,200
one.
Interesting.

1116
01:11:06,600 --> 01:11:10,100
What the fuck?
We're Not Gonna file.

1117
01:11:10,100 --> 01:11:12,900
A missing persons report.
Go look for your junkie daughter

1118
01:11:12,900 --> 01:11:14,800
and all the mortise and Tenon.
Yes.

1119
01:11:14,800 --> 01:11:18,200
Go find her no more because
she's pretty, she probably is

1120
01:11:18,200 --> 01:11:20,500
God.
That's oh my God.

1121
01:11:20,800 --> 01:11:23,200
Yeah, she called them all, but
no one.

1122
01:11:23,200 --> 01:11:26,100
There was no delay.
So it just vanished.

1123
01:11:27,400 --> 01:11:29,500
Victim time was Janice web
another.

1124
01:11:29,500 --> 01:11:32,800
She was actually a former addict
trying to get her life straight.

1125
01:11:32,900 --> 01:11:35,200
She'd been going to AA for a
couple months.

1126
01:11:35,500 --> 01:11:40,700
But she met Anthony, she started
using again even though she was

1127
01:11:40,700 --> 01:11:43,300
back on track and her family has
kind of separated themselves

1128
01:11:43,300 --> 01:11:45,600
from her.
She still called them every

1129
01:11:45,600 --> 01:11:49,200
single day.
So her sister, Audrey realized

1130
01:11:49,200 --> 01:11:53,600
something was wrong, when she
didn't hear from Janice by June

1131
01:11:53,600 --> 01:11:56,700
2nd.
Audrey found a missing persons

1132
01:11:56,700 --> 01:11:58,500
report.
Art, and she did the same thing

1133
01:11:58,500 --> 01:12:00,700
as everybody else.
She started putting up fliers

1134
01:12:01,500 --> 01:12:03,700
around her around Anthony's
house.

1135
01:12:06,000 --> 01:12:09,600
Victim, 11 was Diane Turner.
She went missing in September of

1136
01:12:09,600 --> 01:12:13,100
2009.
Diane also started traveling

1137
01:12:13,100 --> 01:12:15,000
with drugs.
She was epileptic.

1138
01:12:15,300 --> 01:12:18,400
She had struggled with her
mental health, she spent her

1139
01:12:18,500 --> 01:12:21,500
childhood and adult life and out
of the system, she didn't have a

1140
01:12:21,500 --> 01:12:23,700
lot of family.
And so, even though people on

1141
01:12:23,700 --> 01:12:26,800
the street noticed she was gone,
no one ever found a missing

1142
01:12:26,800 --> 01:12:31,600
person report for Diane either.
Now Anthony is disposing of

1143
01:12:31,600 --> 01:12:34,900
these remains of all of these
victims in around his house and

1144
01:12:34,900 --> 01:12:36,700
it's not like people didn't say
anything.

1145
01:12:37,000 --> 01:12:40,000
Like, summer 2009, there was a
handyman named James, Martin,

1146
01:12:40,000 --> 01:12:42,900
who did some work, like, to
another house on the Block.

1147
01:12:43,200 --> 01:12:46,700
And he was just like, it smells
like dead people here.

1148
01:12:47,900 --> 01:12:51,100
Pretty much anybody who came
around there, notice this just

1149
01:12:51,100 --> 01:12:56,700
permeating set of death.
But the next two attacks would

1150
01:12:56,700 --> 01:12:58,700
be the things that would get
Hannah.

1151
01:13:00,200 --> 01:13:03,300
So, September 22nd 2009, it's
pretty cloudy Tuesday.

1152
01:13:03,600 --> 01:13:07,600
The tundra, Billups remembers
that she was in the middle of a

1153
01:13:07,600 --> 01:13:11,800
pretty bad crack habit.
She knew Anthony, because he

1154
01:13:11,800 --> 01:13:15,400
helped her score, she had been
there with victim.

1155
01:13:15,400 --> 01:13:24,200
Number 11 Diana and Nancy called
But because Anthony had remains

1156
01:13:24,200 --> 01:13:27,700
on the third floor, they were
now hanging out on the second

1157
01:13:27,700 --> 01:13:31,200
floor.
He told her his room, his living

1158
01:13:31,200 --> 01:13:33,300
space was too dirty didn't want
to bring a woman there.

1159
01:13:34,800 --> 01:13:38,500
So, the tiger had heard around
the block that there was an

1160
01:13:38,500 --> 01:13:40,700
accusation that he was the
rapist.

1161
01:13:40,900 --> 01:13:43,600
And so, she was like, yo, what's
up with this?

1162
01:13:43,600 --> 01:13:46,300
All these girls are saying, you
did weird stuff to them and

1163
01:13:46,300 --> 01:13:49,000
Anthony responds by attacking
her and trying to rape her.

1164
01:13:49,300 --> 01:13:51,100
Oh my fucking God.
Come on.

1165
01:13:54,200 --> 01:13:57,500
It's like well, you know,
they're not wrong.

1166
01:13:57,700 --> 01:14:00,000
She actually noticed him pulling
away extension cord, out of the

1167
01:14:00,000 --> 01:14:02,900
wall and he choked her until she
passed out afterwards.

1168
01:14:02,900 --> 01:14:06,200
She said he behaved normal.
He apologized for ripping up her

1169
01:14:06,200 --> 01:14:09,200
sweater and she was with a
promise that if she came back.

1170
01:14:09,200 --> 01:14:12,900
The next day, he gave her 50
dollars for a t-shirt, she made

1171
01:14:12,900 --> 01:14:17,700
it across the street to a
restaurant called by a man named

1172
01:14:17,700 --> 01:14:20,800
place at Beth.
She started like sobbing as soon

1173
01:14:20,800 --> 01:14:22,400
as she walked to the restaurant
door.

1174
01:14:23,000 --> 01:14:26,400
She told the owner Anthony tried
to kill her and that she played

1175
01:14:26,400 --> 01:14:29,800
dead to get him to leave her be.
She went to the ER reported that

1176
01:14:29,800 --> 01:14:34,300
she'd been assaulted and raped.
She talked to a counselor And

1177
01:14:34,300 --> 01:14:38,900
the counselor there said, yeah,
you're like the fifth woman to

1178
01:14:38,900 --> 01:14:43,700
tell us that Anthony Sowell.
Rach, you done.

1179
01:14:44,000 --> 01:14:46,000
I'm fucking done.
Ooh, pretty.

1180
01:14:47,300 --> 01:14:49,300
I told you.
If you frustrated, they tell you

1181
01:14:49,900 --> 01:14:52,200
what what what do you what do
you?

1182
01:14:52,200 --> 01:14:55,100
What do you mean?
What do you mean?

1183
01:14:55,700 --> 01:14:59,400
Well the problem is for some of
these women who are kind of

1184
01:14:59,407 --> 01:15:06,500
transient By the time the
process of the time like for the

1185
01:15:06,500 --> 01:15:10,000
tundra, it was weeks before
anybody from the sex crimes unit

1186
01:15:10,000 --> 01:15:12,400
reached out to her.
And there was a detective whose

1187
01:15:12,400 --> 01:15:15,400
name was Durst, who did take the
tundra seriously.

1188
01:15:15,600 --> 01:15:18,600
But he had to then go do the
legwork and try and track down

1189
01:15:18,600 --> 01:15:21,000
other people and get interviews
and evidence.

1190
01:15:21,200 --> 01:15:27,300
So that goes well into October.
The final attack that I think

1191
01:15:27,300 --> 01:15:30,900
really like a lot like these two
between like September and

1192
01:15:30,907 --> 01:15:34,600
October that happened are the
things that ultimately caused

1193
01:15:34,600 --> 01:15:38,800
his demise.
So while detective Durst is

1194
01:15:38,800 --> 01:15:43,600
working the case pretty much the
meantime. 51 year old, Sean

1195
01:15:43,600 --> 01:15:47,900
Morris is salted by Anthony to
October 20th. 2009 she'd been

1196
01:15:47,900 --> 01:15:50,800
out kind of have a you know, day
party and getting high during

1197
01:15:50,800 --> 01:15:55,300
again she stood at the bus stop
when Anthony saw her She knew he

1198
01:15:55,300 --> 01:15:57,900
had connections to drugs, and
that's all she really wanted for

1199
01:15:57,900 --> 01:15:59,100
that.
She wanted to score.

1200
01:15:59,800 --> 01:16:02,500
So they had a pretty regular
moment, getting high Sean, went

1201
01:16:02,500 --> 01:16:06,200
home and as she was going to get
on the bus, she realized that

1202
01:16:06,200 --> 01:16:09,200
she had left her identification
at Anthony's house.

1203
01:16:09,200 --> 01:16:12,300
If she went back.
When she went back into the

1204
01:16:12,300 --> 01:16:15,300
house and ran upstairs, that's
when he attacked her, he told

1205
01:16:15,300 --> 01:16:17,300
her if she tried to scream or
run, he would kill her.

1206
01:16:17,800 --> 01:16:22,200
She says she remembers those
thought, being very violent, but

1207
01:16:22,200 --> 01:16:26,500
she screamed for help.
He ran to another room to start

1208
01:16:26,500 --> 01:16:30,700
closing the windows and left one
window in his room where the

1209
01:16:30,700 --> 01:16:35,700
attack was happening open.
And which Sean naked.

1210
01:16:36,500 --> 01:16:38,600
Climbs out the window on the
third floor.

1211
01:16:39,600 --> 01:16:43,300
Yep, Anthony comes around.
It's like, oh no.

1212
01:16:43,300 --> 01:16:47,000
And he tries to grab her to pull
her back in and she's straight

1213
01:16:47,000 --> 01:16:48,300
up.
Let's go.

1214
01:16:49,000 --> 01:16:52,500
Falling three floors three
stories to the ground breaks,

1215
01:16:52,500 --> 01:16:55,500
both her hands eight.
Ribs, fractured her skull, but

1216
01:16:55,500 --> 01:16:59,000
she is alive.
Okay, now one of us that

1217
01:16:59,000 --> 01:17:02,800
bastard's employees is like I
just saw a lady fall out of a

1218
01:17:02,800 --> 01:17:06,100
building Right across the street
from me, right?

1219
01:17:06,100 --> 01:17:09,100
Exact place.
That is just like I am sick and

1220
01:17:09,100 --> 01:17:14,100
tired of what is going on with
the women and Anthony foul so he

1221
01:17:14,100 --> 01:17:16,700
heads over.
To the alley.

1222
01:17:16,700 --> 01:17:21,400
And he sees Anthony down there
trying to pick up shot Sean.

1223
01:17:21,400 --> 01:17:23,600
It's just kind of, like,
incapable of moving, just

1224
01:17:23,600 --> 01:17:25,900
screaming.
Help other people have come out

1225
01:17:25,900 --> 01:17:28,200
of their houses and they are
filming this interaction.

1226
01:17:28,400 --> 01:17:31,400
Somebody ends up giving her
their shirt to cover her up.

1227
01:17:32,300 --> 01:17:35,400
And he tries to say that she's
his wife and he need to bring

1228
01:17:35,400 --> 01:17:38,600
her back inside that she had.
Fallen out of balcony, the

1229
01:17:38,600 --> 01:17:42,900
paramedics came and by that time
she had passed out, he tells

1230
01:17:42,900 --> 01:17:45,600
them.
I'm her wife, they let him ride.

1231
01:17:49,100 --> 01:17:55,600
and the ambulance now here's the
thing Sean was unfortunately she

1232
01:17:55,600 --> 01:17:59,300
was married and that person was
not a right.

1233
01:17:59,300 --> 01:18:02,800
It's a show he felt like my
husband's going to find out that

1234
01:18:02,800 --> 01:18:04,300
I was caught naked with a
string.

1235
01:18:06,300 --> 01:18:08,700
So she just told them that they
were getting high she dropped

1236
01:18:08,700 --> 01:18:12,300
her keys golf about only problem
is the balcony wasn't on the

1237
01:18:12,300 --> 01:18:16,800
same side of the alley and the
police were real suspicious but

1238
01:18:16,800 --> 01:18:19,800
both Anthony and Sean said it
was an accident.

1239
01:18:19,900 --> 01:18:22,700
So please for like are you sure
it was an accident?

1240
01:18:22,700 --> 01:18:23,500
And she's like, yep.
Yep.

1241
01:18:23,500 --> 01:18:26,100
Yep, so they could really do
anything because nobody reported

1242
01:18:26,100 --> 01:18:31,500
a crime so as he thinks he's
safe, but let's hundreds case

1243
01:18:31,500 --> 01:18:34,300
makes it to the department and
they filed charges against him

1244
01:18:34,300 --> 01:18:38,200
on October 28th.
Nine, they sign a warrant to

1245
01:18:38,200 --> 01:18:43,100
check his house on October 29th
at six pm 13 SWAT members show

1246
01:18:43,100 --> 01:18:44,500
up to raid his home.
Now.

1247
01:18:44,500 --> 01:18:46,700
This is just for the rape of the
tundra.

1248
01:18:48,400 --> 01:18:51,800
The SWAT team walk in and
they're just like this place

1249
01:18:51,800 --> 01:18:57,400
smells awful.
So the team breaks with like,

1250
01:18:57,400 --> 01:18:59,700
splits up a team, goes down to
the basement.

1251
01:18:59,700 --> 01:19:01,300
They're open all the doors on
the first floor.

1252
01:19:01,300 --> 01:19:05,400
Second floor, third floor, third
floor, there is a locked door,

1253
01:19:05,800 --> 01:19:08,500
the breach, the door.
And there are the bodies of

1254
01:19:08,500 --> 01:19:12,300
Tunisia for Stephen and Diane
tartar in the basement.

1255
01:19:12,300 --> 01:19:15,900
At the same time officers, find
freshly, move dirt which is

1256
01:19:15,900 --> 01:19:20,100
Genesis Webster means they
stopped the search, leave the

1257
01:19:20,100 --> 01:19:23,100
house and the change, the
warrant pretty much they contact

1258
01:19:23,100 --> 01:19:29,500
the Age to get a new war.
Screw the rape charge murder and

1259
01:19:29,500 --> 01:19:33,300
they contacted the court,
Anthony's, not in the house of

1260
01:19:33,300 --> 01:19:36,200
business.
But they're recovering bodies

1261
01:19:36,200 --> 01:19:40,300
everywhere.
One of Anthony's neighbors goes

1262
01:19:40,300 --> 01:19:43,700
and tells his sister truss up.
That look police are in front of

1263
01:19:43,900 --> 01:19:47,500
Anthony's house.
And as she walks in, she finds

1264
01:19:47,500 --> 01:19:49,900
Anthony combo sitting on Tresses
couch.

1265
01:19:51,400 --> 01:19:54,000
And she's like, you got to go
back and talk to them, like

1266
01:19:54,000 --> 01:19:58,500
they're saying that they found a
body upstairs, and he only says

1267
01:19:58,500 --> 01:20:03,000
two things on the right there,
that girl made me do it and it's

1268
01:20:03,000 --> 01:20:08,200
all going to come out now. when
they pulled up though, he asked,

1269
01:20:08,300 --> 01:20:14,400
he's like, take me back and so
she did When the neighbor got

1270
01:20:14,400 --> 01:20:17,600
home, she just straight-up
wanted to the police and was

1271
01:20:17,600 --> 01:20:21,200
like, the man you're looking for
is that his sister's house?

1272
01:20:22,000 --> 01:20:23,700
He admitted to us.
That he did it.

1273
01:20:25,900 --> 01:20:28,100
Now as soon as Anthony got back
to trust his house, he took off

1274
01:20:28,100 --> 01:20:31,300
running.
He was staying in abandoned

1275
01:20:31,300 --> 01:20:35,500
houses.
They put a 12 thousand dollar

1276
01:20:35,500 --> 01:20:38,200
bounty on his head
Crimestoppers.

1277
01:20:39,700 --> 01:20:43,500
Friday, October 30th 2009, they
bring in like a whole like

1278
01:20:43,500 --> 01:20:47,200
forensic team, who find the
remains in the property, he had

1279
01:20:47,200 --> 01:20:49,300
made very little attempt to hide
what he was doing.

1280
01:20:49,600 --> 01:20:52,400
Most of them were shot in the
backyard, not buried, more than

1281
01:20:52,400 --> 01:20:56,300
24 inches.
Which did not hide them or the

1282
01:20:56,300 --> 01:21:00,400
scent.
She Crystal Crystal Dozier was

1283
01:21:00,400 --> 01:21:02,900
found with a piece of cloth
wrapped around her neck, her

1284
01:21:02,900 --> 01:21:05,500
wrists and ankles were bound
with wire tying.

1285
01:21:05,500 --> 01:21:08,100
A Carmichael was discovered in a
shallow backyard, Grant

1286
01:21:08,100 --> 01:21:11,000
electrical cord around her neck
and that's a hunter was there as

1287
01:21:11,000 --> 01:21:12,600
well.
A strap from her purse.

1288
01:21:12,600 --> 01:21:15,800
Since around her growth Michelle
Mason was partially covered in

1289
01:21:15,808 --> 01:21:19,100
the backyard by dirt and
blankets and plastic garbage

1290
01:21:19,100 --> 01:21:22,600
bags.
It even bother bury her like

1291
01:21:22,600 --> 01:21:24,700
Crystal.
She'd also been strangled with

1292
01:21:24,700 --> 01:21:27,300
cloth.
Tim Smith who hadn't even been

1293
01:21:27,300 --> 01:21:29,000
reported missing was the last of
the bodies.

1294
01:21:29,000 --> 01:21:31,900
We found the backyard naked from
the waist down wrapped in a

1295
01:21:31,900 --> 01:21:36,900
blanket and clear plastic bags.
She was also tied with strips of

1296
01:21:36,900 --> 01:21:40,800
gall to show in a Culver was
found and the crawl space in the

1297
01:21:40,800 --> 01:21:44,600
front sitting room which is the
same SWAT place.

1298
01:21:44,600 --> 01:21:47,800
Where SWAT team member Richard
Butler, found selicia Fortson

1299
01:21:47,800 --> 01:21:52,200
Nancy cobs and Diane toner.
So Sean is necklace fractured

1300
01:21:52,200 --> 01:21:53,900
and she was bound with moderate
growth.

1301
01:21:55,400 --> 01:21:59,100
Nancy.
Nancy was determined to be the

1302
01:21:59,100 --> 01:22:01,900
fourth body.
She had been strangled then

1303
01:22:01,900 --> 01:22:05,400
close in five layers of black
plastic bags and wrapped in a

1304
01:22:05,400 --> 01:22:10,800
comforter.
A 36-inch shoelace and 12 inch

1305
01:22:10,800 --> 01:22:13,100
long.
Sock were wrapped around her

1306
01:22:13,100 --> 01:22:16,800
neck, and her wrists were bound
with other shoe laces, Janice

1307
01:22:16,800 --> 01:22:19,300
web and the Shonda long were
also found in the basement.

1308
01:22:19,800 --> 01:22:21,700
Anthony managed to hide until
Halloween.

1309
01:22:22,400 --> 01:22:27,500
So two days And the reason why
he came out of hiding was

1310
01:22:27,500 --> 01:22:31,000
cussing, you need to get high,
and a man by the name of Joe

1311
01:22:31,000 --> 01:22:34,300
Beale wasn't cost them walking
around like a skeleton.

1312
01:22:36,500 --> 01:22:42,200
And he saw Anthony and he called
it, he didn't, he did get that

1313
01:22:42,200 --> 01:22:44,300
twelve thousand dollars as well.
Say he got his money.

1314
01:22:45,000 --> 01:22:48,200
Damn, right.
He got that 12 Grand Anthony

1315
01:22:48,200 --> 01:22:50,200
tried to play it off.
When the police arrived, they

1316
01:22:50,200 --> 01:22:53,400
didn't have a picture because I
guess cops didn't have cell

1317
01:22:53,400 --> 01:22:58,500
phones like that at the time he
wasn't late 2009.

1318
01:22:59,800 --> 01:23:01,700
You had so, come on.
Yeah, I don't know, but they

1319
01:23:01,700 --> 01:23:07,200
didn't have a picture of who
they were looking for. but that

1320
01:23:07,200 --> 01:23:10,800
didn't really matter with the
cops, they were just like this

1321
01:23:10,800 --> 01:23:14,800
guy's wanted and that guy thinks
you look like the guy and then

1322
01:23:14,800 --> 01:23:17,100
you try to play it off like he
was a druggie and the cops had

1323
01:23:17,100 --> 01:23:19,300
already like talk to him the
night before.

1324
01:23:20,600 --> 01:23:22,700
They bring out a fingerprint
scanner and he's just like,

1325
01:23:22,700 --> 01:23:24,200
never mind.
It's me.

1326
01:23:24,200 --> 01:23:29,100
I did it.
He's 50 years old, they said

1327
01:23:29,100 --> 01:23:31,800
it's bonded.
Five million dollars owed.

1328
01:23:33,700 --> 01:23:39,100
This is good.
No, but damn good.

1329
01:23:40,600 --> 01:23:43,400
I take his lawyers.
Almost two years to go through

1330
01:23:43,400 --> 01:23:47,500
the thousands upon thousands of
hours of CCTV, footage of

1331
01:23:47,500 --> 01:23:50,300
Anthony's comings and goings in
the area as well as all the

1332
01:23:50,400 --> 01:23:52,400
Cements and records and charges
against him.

1333
01:23:52,800 --> 01:23:55,900
He's Charles started on June 6,
2011, he was charged with 11

1334
01:23:55,900 --> 01:23:59,300
counts of aggravated murder and
seventy four counts of rape,

1335
01:23:59,300 --> 01:24:01,800
kidnapping tampering with
evidence and abuse of a corpse

1336
01:24:02,500 --> 01:24:04,200
he plead guilty by reason of
insanity.

1337
01:24:04,200 --> 01:24:06,700
But during the trial, he just
changed it to not guilty.

1338
01:24:08,100 --> 01:24:11,200
Trout took about a month, July
22nd 2011.

1339
01:24:11,200 --> 01:24:13,300
He's found guilty of all, but
two counts.

1340
01:24:14,800 --> 01:24:18,100
The jury reconvene on August 10
2011 and they recommended the

1341
01:24:18,100 --> 01:24:22,600
death penalty.
Two days later, it was upheld by

1342
01:24:22,600 --> 01:24:27,800
the judge. and September 14th,
Anthony was put on death row, at

1343
01:24:27,800 --> 01:24:33,000
the chili cook-off, Correctional
Institution, which is when we

1344
01:24:33,000 --> 01:24:36,400
find our next flaw in the
system, is lawyers filed an

1345
01:24:36,407 --> 01:24:41,200
appeal, the Supreme Court of
Ohio because his execution was

1346
01:24:41,200 --> 01:24:46,600
scheduled for October 29th, the
following year, okay, he had one

1347
01:24:46,600 --> 01:24:49,300
year there were not going to be
20 years on death row and Ohio,

1348
01:24:49,300 --> 01:24:53,100
apparently No, they didn't get
an appeal but they did get a

1349
01:24:53,108 --> 01:24:59,600
stay of execution.
She just didn't kill next year.

1350
01:24:59,700 --> 01:25:02,600
Why not?
They managed to push it off

1351
01:25:02,600 --> 01:25:04,500
2013.
He gets new lawyers.

1352
01:25:04,700 --> 01:25:07,000
Who say that he didn't get a
fair trial because the media

1353
01:25:07,000 --> 01:25:09,400
coverage, but his previous
lawyer suck, and they had an

1354
01:25:09,407 --> 01:25:10,900
issue with the jury being
chosen.

1355
01:25:10,900 --> 01:25:14,200
When the court was closed from
the public, these motions went

1356
01:25:14,200 --> 01:25:17,800
on for a while, but in 2016,
that appeal was rejected, May

1357
01:25:17,800 --> 01:25:20,100
2017.
He appealed to the US Supreme

1358
01:25:20,100 --> 01:25:23,100
Court, they denied to hear the
case saying that Ohio had done

1359
01:25:23,100 --> 01:25:26,300
its job properly.
February 2018, the Ohio Supreme

1360
01:25:26,300 --> 01:25:29,800
Court, denied a third
appearance, He'll may have 20/20

1361
01:25:29,800 --> 01:25:33,300
was denied again.
Pretty much through abusing the

1362
01:25:33,308 --> 01:25:37,400
appeals process and he sells
example to extend his life, an

1363
01:25:37,400 --> 01:25:40,500
extra decade.
He died.

1364
01:25:40,500 --> 01:25:46,100
February 2021 and the turmoil.
Oh, just last year.

1365
01:25:46,500 --> 01:25:50,400
Yep.
That Imperial Avenue house was

1366
01:25:50,400 --> 01:25:54,900
demolished in 2011 on July, 16th
2021, it began building what

1367
01:25:54,900 --> 01:25:56,700
they call The Garden of eleven
Angels.

1368
01:25:57,200 --> 01:26:00,400
It was dedicated on my birthday.
November 6 2021.

1369
01:26:01,200 --> 01:26:06,600
Hey for the first time and 2001
the five women who escaped

1370
01:26:06,600 --> 01:26:10,500
Anthony told their stories and
episode of snapped on oxygen on

1371
01:26:10,500 --> 01:26:15,200
July 24th 2021.
Ray sausage still struggling to

1372
01:26:15,200 --> 01:26:18,600
stay in business, obviously was
proven that the family's

1373
01:26:18,600 --> 01:26:20,600
business was not the reason for
the smell but that did

1374
01:26:20,900 --> 01:26:23,400
negatively impact their business
for quite some time.

1375
01:26:23,900 --> 01:26:25,800
All right.
Did he have Cleveland agreed to

1376
01:26:25,800 --> 01:26:32,100
pay six of the 11 families, 1
million dollars due to botched

1377
01:26:32,100 --> 01:26:35,300
investigations or feasible
investigate the disappearance

1378
01:26:36,100 --> 01:26:40,500
It's what about like?
What about?

1379
01:26:40,500 --> 01:26:43,800
Like the hospital and leave the
the person who said, oh yeah,

1380
01:26:43,800 --> 01:26:46,400
yeah, five other people who came
here in like, wait.

1381
01:26:46,400 --> 01:26:48,200
So that's not the hospital's
called there.

1382
01:26:48,200 --> 01:26:51,300
But all the hospital can do is
take the rape kit, reports the

1383
01:26:51,300 --> 01:26:54,300
police.
The problem is, you've got

1384
01:26:54,300 --> 01:26:56,400
somebody who's a junkie who's
scared, they're going to be

1385
01:26:56,400 --> 01:26:59,400
arrested if they talk to cops.
So, by the time, the cops get

1386
01:26:59,400 --> 01:27:02,600
there, the woman's though.
And so now they just have this

1387
01:27:02,600 --> 01:27:04,400
report.
And this woman, they can't find

1388
01:27:05,300 --> 01:27:08,600
And that well, I'm going to talk
about like part of why.

1389
01:27:08,600 --> 01:27:11,900
This is the problem and give me
mod, like two minutes to

1390
01:27:11,900 --> 01:27:13,500
grandstand.
I know you've been looking for a

1391
01:27:13,500 --> 01:27:16,200
while, but I painstakingly
brought up the strictest history

1392
01:27:16,200 --> 01:27:19,200
because it is important to ask
you to decide that's the story.

1393
01:27:19,200 --> 01:27:21,700
Socially, we have decided that
some people don't deserve

1394
01:27:21,700 --> 01:27:24,200
empathy, they deserve less
caring, less respect.

1395
01:27:24,200 --> 01:27:27,600
And those people are always the
victims of man, like Gary

1396
01:27:27,600 --> 01:27:29,900
Ridgway and Samuel, little and
Anthony sell.

1397
01:27:29,900 --> 01:27:34,300
A lot of times people ask me how
our serial killer so successful.

1398
01:27:34,300 --> 01:27:37,700
And I have So many times in the
last year that serial killers

1399
01:27:37,700 --> 01:27:41,100
are not so brilliant class of
criminal, they are exploiting a

1400
01:27:41,100 --> 01:27:44,400
loophole in our justice system.
A blindness that our system

1401
01:27:44,400 --> 01:27:48,400
possesses and like until we stop
ranking in filing.

1402
01:27:48,400 --> 01:27:51,600
Human value like this, we're
going to see crimes like this.

1403
01:27:51,600 --> 01:27:55,500
Persist, I also think this is
why I am so hard on Cops in

1404
01:27:55,500 --> 01:27:58,800
these pods fast because when a
community does not have faith in

1405
01:27:58,800 --> 01:28:01,700
the justice system, they don't
use it.

1406
01:28:03,600 --> 01:28:06,800
Too, many of his victims did not
have faith in the Cleveland

1407
01:28:06,800 --> 01:28:10,100
Police Department, and because
they didn't have that Faith

1408
01:28:10,300 --> 01:28:12,800
police were unaware, that they
had a serial killer on their

1409
01:28:12,800 --> 01:28:15,600
hands.
It's all checks, and balances,

1410
01:28:15,600 --> 01:28:18,300
and for the USA, everything is
out of balance, and it has been

1411
01:28:18,300 --> 01:28:21,800
now for decades.
This is why we have the protest

1412
01:28:21,800 --> 01:28:24,700
for unjust shootings and
brutality and I feel it really

1413
01:28:24,700 --> 01:28:27,000
feel like police officers, feel
like everybody's ganging up on

1414
01:28:27,000 --> 01:28:30,400
their profession right now, but
like we want to be protected, we

1415
01:28:30,400 --> 01:28:33,500
want to be able to call you.
We want to believe that

1416
01:28:33,500 --> 01:28:35,900
somewhere out there.
When bad things happen, the bad

1417
01:28:35,900 --> 01:28:38,500
guys get caught.
That's the satisfaction of this

1418
01:28:38,500 --> 01:28:41,400
podcast.
You know that when you leave the

1419
01:28:41,400 --> 01:28:44,700
episode, I have told you that
Justice was done.

1420
01:28:44,800 --> 01:28:46,800
It may have been delayed but it
happened.

1421
01:28:47,500 --> 01:28:50,000
I wish there were more cases
where I could say, the bad guy

1422
01:28:50,000 --> 01:28:53,300
gets got it doesn't take 10. 20
years for it to happen.

1423
01:28:55,300 --> 01:28:58,100
Way we work on that as if we
stopped our victims away because

1424
01:28:58,100 --> 01:29:01,800
they aren't perfect people and
we got to stop letting Predators

1425
01:29:01,800 --> 01:29:06,200
go because they are nice, guys.
But, you know, that's my

1426
01:29:06,200 --> 01:29:12,600
grandstanding for the day I'm
done. yeah, got a lot of

1427
01:29:12,600 --> 01:29:16,400
feelings about I mean, what's
your right though?

1428
01:29:16,400 --> 01:29:18,900
You're like everything.
You said absolutely correct?

1429
01:29:18,900 --> 01:29:20,800
Like you stand wonder what's
behind that.

1430
01:29:20,800 --> 01:29:24,200
Link.
If the, if the justice system

1431
01:29:24,200 --> 01:29:28,800
worked in that Community then
they would have called him like

1432
01:29:30,500 --> 01:29:35,200
the first woman who report but
specifically chose women who

1433
01:29:35,200 --> 01:29:41,300
were addicts, and I don't know
if it was as purposeful as say

1434
01:29:41,300 --> 01:29:48,500
Gary Ridgway or Sam, Littles was
but People who are streetwalkers

1435
01:29:48,500 --> 01:29:52,200
or doing sex work or on drugs,
should be able to report that a

1436
01:29:52,208 --> 01:29:55,300
crime has happened to them and
have some reasonable

1437
01:29:55,300 --> 01:29:57,300
expectation.
That will be taken.

1438
01:29:57,300 --> 01:29:59,900
Seriously, that this is not what
they deserve.

1439
01:29:59,900 --> 01:30:02,500
Yeah.
Because they aren't living the

1440
01:30:02,500 --> 01:30:06,800
life that we approve to be.
You know, I deal in the US and

1441
01:30:06,800 --> 01:30:11,100
that just reminds me of the
Green River Killer like, like

1442
01:30:11,200 --> 01:30:13,200
seriously?
Yeah.

1443
01:30:18,700 --> 01:30:21,600
Great storytelling is always
thank you.

1444
01:30:22,800 --> 01:30:26,400
Well, what do we have today in
our paranormal palette?

1445
01:30:27,100 --> 01:30:29,000
Because that was a lot.
Okay?

1446
01:30:29,800 --> 01:30:33,700
This one you'll find enjoyable.
Okay, okay, okay.

1447
01:30:37,400 --> 01:30:41,900
So I talked about like two men
last year that had a knack for

1448
01:30:41,900 --> 01:30:46,800
finding frauds in the
spiritualism community and

1449
01:30:46,800 --> 01:30:49,400
exposing them, where the trial
license that they were.

1450
01:30:49,700 --> 01:30:53,900
Are we talking about more magic
people, maybe?

1451
01:30:57,800 --> 01:31:00,900
What magician hates ghosts,
ghosts people mediums.

1452
01:31:00,900 --> 01:31:01,900
Now, I wouldn't.
Okay.

1453
01:31:01,900 --> 01:31:05,000
So it's, this is not magicians
that he kills people today.

1454
01:31:06,800 --> 01:31:10,100
So, the two people I'm talking
about, you know, the to Harry's

1455
01:31:10,600 --> 01:31:12,900
Harry Harry, Houdini?
Yeah, your price.

1456
01:31:15,700 --> 01:31:21,400
And it occurred to me that I
didn't know entirely well into

1457
01:31:21,400 --> 01:31:26,500
like holding a seance and or
what was considered a seance or

1458
01:31:26,500 --> 01:31:29,000
honestly?
Like, I've seen people just be

1459
01:31:29,000 --> 01:31:31,300
like, all right, we're just
sitting together, chilling.

1460
01:31:31,800 --> 01:31:34,200
And then I've seen other
situations where it's like,

1461
01:31:34,200 --> 01:31:36,900
super elaborate, right?
Yes.

1462
01:31:37,400 --> 01:31:39,200
So, I'm like, well, who's right
here?

1463
01:31:39,200 --> 01:31:44,200
Do I need like, 57 candles and I
need to, like, nobody intentions

1464
01:31:44,200 --> 01:31:47,000
as I'm lighting them.
Do I need a fancy table?

1465
01:31:47,000 --> 01:31:48,500
Do I need a Ouija board?
I got on.

1466
01:31:48,500 --> 01:31:54,700
Oh yeah.
So I wrote this down, I wrote it

1467
01:31:54,700 --> 01:31:58,300
down.
So I gotta say, okay, so demons

1468
01:31:58,400 --> 01:32:03,600
your boy went on a search if
they got to tell you about so

1469
01:32:03,600 --> 01:32:07,100
seances today.
Hey, are you like famous ones?

1470
01:32:09,000 --> 01:32:13,800
So what I'm going to do is go
over like what I say or else is

1471
01:32:13,800 --> 01:32:17,400
what's considered Nerd a seance.
There are some famous ones that

1472
01:32:17,400 --> 01:32:20,900
I read about.
I'm probably not gonna go to in

1473
01:32:20,900 --> 01:32:28,100
deep like in depth with them
because there's so much going

1474
01:32:28,100 --> 01:32:31,600
into.
What's a seance is and what it

1475
01:32:31,600 --> 01:32:32,800
goes.
Almost seances.

1476
01:32:33,100 --> 01:32:38,100
So what are we contacted?
We contacted ghost.

1477
01:32:39,200 --> 01:32:42,700
Some people do.
Some people do also, I have this

1478
01:32:42,700 --> 01:32:46,700
real like Wonder because you
know, I love my TV show about

1479
01:32:46,700 --> 01:32:48,800
the cop and the lady.
Amy Allan.

1480
01:32:49,100 --> 01:32:51,200
It's not that files, you know?
I love my dad files.

1481
01:32:51,300 --> 01:32:56,100
Yeah.
Okay, NEC stuff.

1482
01:32:56,500 --> 01:32:59,500
This not just like judeo
Christian.

1483
01:33:00,100 --> 01:33:03,400
She she sees like some ancient
things sometimes I'm like, can

1484
01:33:03,400 --> 01:33:06,500
you talk to those things I just
thought, you know, like, they

1485
01:33:06,500 --> 01:33:08,300
don't want to talk to us,
there's not.

1486
01:33:08,500 --> 01:33:09,900
Not right.
Maybe we don't want to talk to

1487
01:33:09,900 --> 01:33:11,200
us.
They're like ancient being.

1488
01:33:11,200 --> 01:33:13,700
So like just been walking the
Earth for like Millennia and

1489
01:33:13,700 --> 01:33:17,400
they're like, can y'all just go
somewhere, please, you're so

1490
01:33:17,400 --> 01:33:30,100
beneath me.
No, that's exactly what they're

1491
01:33:30,100 --> 01:33:33,000
like.
They're like little ants want to

1492
01:33:33,000 --> 01:33:36,900
talk to me go away.
Oh God.

1493
01:33:37,800 --> 01:33:42,400
So if you're new to this end of
the podcast, deep dark recesses

1494
01:33:42,400 --> 01:33:46,200
of the podcast or to the
Paranormal things, you're

1495
01:33:46,200 --> 01:33:49,600
probably like, well, you know,
WTF is a seance.

1496
01:33:50,900 --> 01:33:53,400
Well, I got the answer for you
right here.

1497
01:33:53,800 --> 01:33:59,000
And according to many of my
sources today, See aren't at?

1498
01:33:59,000 --> 01:34:02,800
It's like the basic or is
basically like an attempt to

1499
01:34:02,800 --> 01:34:06,400
communicate with the dead in the
afterlife, that's that's it.

1500
01:34:08,100 --> 01:34:12,500
So the word Seance come
originates from France and it

1501
01:34:12,500 --> 01:34:20,200
means to sit or a session.
So basically what it's a on,

1502
01:34:20,200 --> 01:34:24,900
says you're sitting having a
session trying to do it.

1503
01:34:26,300 --> 01:34:33,200
I mean I don't say anybody could
do it.

1504
01:34:34,200 --> 01:34:37,400
Definitely.
If you're like sensitive or like

1505
01:34:37,400 --> 01:34:42,700
your if you know your medium
mediums are mediums.

1506
01:34:42,700 --> 01:34:47,700
Are the main people who hold
sayings or who lead this Seance.

1507
01:34:48,600 --> 01:34:52,200
See that's another thing I have
seen people who are not mediums

1508
01:34:52,700 --> 01:34:57,200
Do this, like how do you hold
the commune with the spirits?

1509
01:34:57,200 --> 01:35:03,100
Like how dangerous try just do
it.

1510
01:35:03,400 --> 01:35:08,500
Okay, the I'll make the rules.
I know and no need to hook and

1511
01:35:08,500 --> 01:35:14,700
she's do I, but people, if he
would do these things, oh God.

1512
01:35:16,500 --> 01:35:25,200
So, in the 19th century English,
the word Seance referred to a

1513
01:35:25,208 --> 01:35:28,800
meeting, a people trying to
receive spiritual istic

1514
01:35:28,800 --> 01:35:32,100
messages.
So, so the meaning of It, kind

1515
01:35:32,100 --> 01:35:38,600
of like, stay the same, but
like, so you're not talking to

1516
01:35:38,600 --> 01:35:41,900
they don't, they don't include
the afterlife, they just include

1517
01:35:41,900 --> 01:35:44,100
that they want spiritualists
acknowledges.

1518
01:35:44,300 --> 01:35:49,000
So, It's implied, it's implied,
but it's not like, okay.

1519
01:35:51,200 --> 01:35:56,200
That's so weird to me.
So yeah, this was just like a

1520
01:35:56,208 --> 01:36:01,300
meeting of people get together
and talk about weird stuff D&D

1521
01:36:01,300 --> 01:36:03,400
night for us.
I know right baby.

1522
01:36:04,200 --> 01:36:06,600
Basically that's like deity for
us.

1523
01:36:08,800 --> 01:36:13,700
So the Seance always has a
medium.

1524
01:36:13,800 --> 01:36:17,400
There's always a medium and
there.

1525
01:36:17,800 --> 01:36:22,500
They are there to basically just
channeled the spirit here and,

1526
01:36:22,700 --> 01:36:25,300
you know, have helped it
communicate with people.

1527
01:36:25,300 --> 01:36:26,900
That's something I would never
do anyway.

1528
01:36:28,200 --> 01:36:31,200
Even if I had the ability, you
don't get to take control of my

1529
01:36:31,200 --> 01:36:35,700
body?
I don't know, boys.

1530
01:36:38,100 --> 01:36:43,700
So normally seances are attended
by people who want to contact a

1531
01:36:43,700 --> 01:36:49,500
loved one or friend say they
were like, I don't know, someone

1532
01:36:49,500 --> 01:36:53,500
who knew this person.
And hey, I remember that one

1533
01:36:53,500 --> 01:36:55,500
time.
This person had like buried some

1534
01:36:55,500 --> 01:36:57,700
treasure in their backyard but I
can't find it.

1535
01:36:57,800 --> 01:37:04,100
So can you help me?
That's just reminds me freaking

1536
01:37:04,100 --> 01:37:09,000
episode Courage.
The Cowardly Dog, when uses he

1537
01:37:09,000 --> 01:37:11,400
hires like, I guess he doesn't
hired it.

1538
01:37:11,400 --> 01:37:16,100
They bring his medium and he
goes to find, like he wants to

1539
01:37:16,100 --> 01:37:19,300
find his brothers treasure or
whatever the hell or a key to

1540
01:37:19,300 --> 01:37:24,000
his brothers lockbox.
And that's the only reason why

1541
01:37:24,000 --> 01:37:25,500
he liked.
He contacted.

1542
01:37:25,500 --> 01:37:26,700
You want to talk to his loved
one.

1543
01:37:26,800 --> 01:37:29,700
He's like, where's the key?
So I can get this money.

1544
01:37:30,500 --> 01:37:33,200
Awesome.
Yep, it smells Eustace.

1545
01:37:33,200 --> 01:37:40,200
So yeah.
So, they also, you know, people

1546
01:37:40,200 --> 01:37:43,600
who like loved ones, they
always, they also wanted to make

1547
01:37:43,600 --> 01:37:48,900
sure that they're whoever had
died had absolutely like passed

1548
01:37:48,900 --> 01:37:50,500
over.
They were doing well in the

1549
01:37:50,500 --> 01:37:53,100
afterlife.
There was actually an afterlife

1550
01:37:53,100 --> 01:37:57,200
and that they didn't really end
up in like, you know, he'll or

1551
01:37:57,200 --> 01:37:59,000
something.
What happens, what happens when

1552
01:37:59,000 --> 01:38:03,500
you find out?
I don't know, I don't know.

1553
01:38:03,500 --> 01:38:09,300
Think you're probably talking to
a demon if your total saying

1554
01:38:09,300 --> 01:38:12,700
like, you know, you called Uncle
Charles and he's like, what up

1555
01:38:12,700 --> 01:38:15,800
call me and you're like oh is it
nice and heaven?

1556
01:38:15,800 --> 01:38:19,100
And Uncle Travis like haha, I
don't know what happens like,

1557
01:38:20,000 --> 01:38:22,200
okay.
How's how's Purgatory?

1558
01:38:22,200 --> 01:38:29,800
How you know, Purgatory neither.
Sorry nephew, what is it?

1559
01:38:40,800 --> 01:39:02,400
I'm pretty sure that's why.
Yes, if you're in heaven, like

1560
01:39:02,400 --> 01:39:13,600
we don't let them know that
Angels really look like

1561
01:39:13,600 --> 01:39:15,100
Monsters.
Oh my God.

1562
01:39:20,600 --> 01:39:23,600
Gabriel look like and you cannot
respond to you as 20.

1563
01:39:23,800 --> 01:39:28,200
Have a nice if you don't count
his eyes.

1564
01:39:28,200 --> 01:39:30,000
Okay.
If we don't talk about that eyes

1565
01:39:31,900 --> 01:39:34,100
and inhale demons are like the
wardens.

1566
01:39:34,100 --> 01:39:37,600
They're just like screening or
phone calls through like hmm.

1567
01:39:37,600 --> 01:39:39,000
This seems like something I can
possess.

1568
01:39:39,000 --> 01:39:42,700
Let's get this kid.
Had it when your daughter

1569
01:39:42,700 --> 01:39:44,700
called?
Should I tell her that you're

1570
01:39:44,700 --> 01:39:48,800
burning in hell that you're
getting a pineapple should have

1571
01:39:48,800 --> 01:39:52,900
been sure.
But from Little Nicky, it is for

1572
01:39:52,900 --> 01:39:57,000
Little Nicky.
She did the Hitler's hilarious.

1573
01:39:58,900 --> 01:40:15,100
But anyway anyway, so you know
people trying to communicate

1574
01:40:15,100 --> 01:40:19,100
with the dead friends, do
whatever forms it to can.

1575
01:40:21,800 --> 01:40:27,800
This also Was a time when you
know, frogs were pop up a lot of

1576
01:40:27,800 --> 01:40:31,700
frogs and he wanted to make like
a quick Buck at their lips.

1577
01:40:31,700 --> 01:40:34,900
Great table system.
Oh my goodness.

1578
01:40:34,900 --> 01:40:37,300
Yes, at the expense of other
people suffering.

1579
01:40:37,300 --> 01:40:40,100
It's like that's.
So like they went through so

1580
01:40:40,100 --> 01:40:44,700
much to make so much.
Like, I just want to talk to my

1581
01:40:44,700 --> 01:40:47,600
grandma and then, here it is.
Person is, Here's my thought

1582
01:40:47,600 --> 01:40:52,700
process, though, like if you're
like, listen, I got like a to

1583
01:40:53,200 --> 01:40:57,200
say, W minimum.
And you like lie to this person

1584
01:40:57,200 --> 01:40:59,900
and tell them like how happy
like their grandma was so proud

1585
01:40:59,900 --> 01:41:01,900
of you.
I know she never said it but she

1586
01:41:01,900 --> 01:41:04,300
loves you so much.
And then like, you're done.

1587
01:41:04,300 --> 01:41:06,300
I feel like there's not that
much harm in that.

1588
01:41:06,300 --> 01:41:08,100
I think the problem was there
were people who got like a

1589
01:41:08,108 --> 01:41:11,500
dicted going to the sansa's.
Like the lady who.

1590
01:41:11,500 --> 01:41:13,500
Um, yeah, it's just a mystery
house.

1591
01:41:13,500 --> 01:41:15,000
Yes.
Yes.

1592
01:41:15,000 --> 01:41:18,000
Like seeing those people every
Sunday and she was probably

1593
01:41:18,000 --> 01:41:20,800
paying she do.
Definitely wonder-percent, they

1594
01:41:20,800 --> 01:41:23,600
were charging for that groups.
Groups of mediums coming to her

1595
01:41:23,600 --> 01:41:27,400
house.
So I feel like in that situation

1596
01:41:27,400 --> 01:41:29,400
that sucks but you're just
taking advantage of somebody,

1597
01:41:29,400 --> 01:41:32,800
but like if you make somebody
feel better like one time so

1598
01:41:32,800 --> 01:41:34,200
nice.
Yeah.

1599
01:41:34,200 --> 01:41:37,700
But didn't you have people like,
was it, Sir, Arthur Conan Doyle

1600
01:41:38,100 --> 01:41:41,900
and he's just like, yeah.
All this stuff is real.

1601
01:41:42,100 --> 01:41:45,400
These mediums that, uh, told me
exactly what I wanted to hear

1602
01:41:45,400 --> 01:41:47,200
and stuff like that, and they're
just doing like cold readings

1603
01:41:47,200 --> 01:41:49,700
and shit.
And to him and it's just, like

1604
01:41:50,500 --> 01:41:55,600
nothing delighted me more than
when Houdini was just like, My

1605
01:41:55,600 --> 01:42:00,900
mom didn't speak English.
This bitch like he was so he was

1606
01:42:00,900 --> 01:42:03,700
like any letter?
That should have come from.

1607
01:42:03,700 --> 01:42:05,900
My mom should have been in
german.

1608
01:42:06,400 --> 01:42:08,800
Yes, he's like.
When am I mom were English?

1609
01:42:08,800 --> 01:42:12,000
He always fluid then.
Chairman was like the mom medium

1610
01:42:12,000 --> 01:42:17,900
is like, of course.
Yeah, because everybody thinks

1611
01:42:19,200 --> 01:42:23,800
like nobody else and I love it.
Yeah, that was the best.

1612
01:42:25,200 --> 01:42:29,500
Always always, stay the Houdini
God.

1613
01:42:31,000 --> 01:42:33,900
So, you know what?
We need to have like a code word

1614
01:42:33,900 --> 01:42:39,200
for you and I so that he died.
You gotta let me know the code

1615
01:42:39,200 --> 01:42:43,900
word somehow.
You say you got to get it to me,

1616
01:42:43,900 --> 01:42:48,900
somehow.
Oh, and then we will have proof

1617
01:42:49,200 --> 01:42:50,800
of.
Yeah, there you go.

1618
01:42:51,300 --> 01:42:53,200
There you go.
Well, that's what I'll talk

1619
01:42:53,200 --> 01:42:55,800
about that later to vote.
Houdini, Seance that.

1620
01:42:57,500 --> 01:43:00,000
Remember that from last year?
That was a fun time.

1621
01:43:02,700 --> 01:43:06,300
Okay, so this is normally how a
seance is set up.

1622
01:43:06,400 --> 01:43:09,200
Like I'm just going to like
stereotype a seance.

1623
01:43:09,200 --> 01:43:13,900
Okay.
So it's a dimly dimly lit room

1624
01:43:13,900 --> 01:43:18,200
of always.
But the table when it of course,

1625
01:43:18,700 --> 01:43:21,800
maybe maybe chairs, who knows,
maybe you want some floor?

1626
01:43:23,800 --> 01:43:27,700
You can't lose most definitely
candles and you have medium

1627
01:43:27,700 --> 01:43:31,900
there to lead Seance and
probably there, you know, your

1628
01:43:31,900 --> 01:43:34,600
friends, our families is there
with you.

1629
01:43:35,000 --> 01:43:42,300
Plus some weird-looking guy,
who, who's just, who's just

1630
01:43:42,500 --> 01:43:46,900
who's just like he looks
skeptical and he's just standing

1631
01:43:46,900 --> 01:43:49,000
in like a corner and you just
waking up.

1632
01:43:49,200 --> 01:43:51,200
They always have like septic
shock.

1633
01:43:51,900 --> 01:43:55,200
No, just a joke.
Okay, it's funny that you

1634
01:43:55,200 --> 01:43:57,700
laughed because I smiled at the
exact moment you start that.

1635
01:43:59,800 --> 01:44:02,300
Like before you even laughed I
just was like wait a second,

1636
01:44:02,300 --> 01:44:04,200
what?
Yeah.

1637
01:44:04,500 --> 01:44:06,100
Yeah.
There's this guy, he looks

1638
01:44:06,100 --> 01:44:08,400
skeptical at home or in the
corners like wait a second.

1639
01:44:08,900 --> 01:44:12,600
Is that is that Harry Houdini?
Why are you here?

1640
01:44:12,600 --> 01:44:17,100
At this very personal thing and
my family are doing a little

1641
01:44:17,100 --> 01:44:21,500
side note in Houdini like he was
such a star that like it was

1642
01:44:21,500 --> 01:44:25,400
just like listen Brittany I want
to sit in on The Stance.

1643
01:44:25,400 --> 01:44:27,200
You have to contact your mother.
I've been like.

1644
01:44:27,200 --> 01:44:28,900
Alright cool dude.
Yeah.

1645
01:44:29,000 --> 01:44:32,400
Yeah.
It but remember when Houdini he

1646
01:44:32,800 --> 01:44:36,700
did attended s��ances, he had to
go in Disguise sometimes because

1647
01:44:37,000 --> 01:44:42,200
mediums were like, I don't want
writing this used to do it.

1648
01:44:42,200 --> 01:44:44,700
Yeah.
God.

1649
01:44:44,900 --> 01:44:49,300
And it's like, like he may
contact the family and if he's

1650
01:44:49,300 --> 01:44:52,800
just like randomly shows up in a
disguise, and it's just like,

1651
01:44:53,300 --> 01:44:55,500
like, when I was writing this, I
was just thinking of like,

1652
01:44:55,500 --> 01:44:58,900
someone just like him.
Houdini like you're okay.

1653
01:44:58,900 --> 01:45:01,500
So you're at Like Sears with
somewhere getting to your family

1654
01:45:01,500 --> 01:45:06,200
picture taken, right?
And and Houdini just walks in on

1655
01:45:06,200 --> 01:45:09,900
and off the street and he just
like oh don't worry about me.

1656
01:45:09,900 --> 01:45:12,500
I'm just here to observe and
then I might jump in like a

1657
01:45:12,508 --> 01:45:21,100
couple of your pictures to just
because that's just like me,

1658
01:45:21,100 --> 01:45:43,100
laugh is funny.
While you talk to this lady, I'm

1659
01:45:43,100 --> 01:45:49,100
gonna hide under the table.
I'm gonna, I love that thing.

1660
01:45:49,100 --> 01:45:52,300
He did with his knees and like,
he could tell when she was

1661
01:45:52,300 --> 01:45:55,700
moving her legs.
Like, when his Like walk behind.

1662
01:45:55,900 --> 01:45:59,400
Yeah basically.
Yes don't worry about me.

1663
01:45:59,400 --> 01:46:02,400
I'm just you know I'm just I'm
just you know don't you sit over

1664
01:46:02,400 --> 01:46:09,500
here doing like let's look at
like he's playing that game

1665
01:46:09,500 --> 01:46:11,300
twister.
Yes, she's like.

1666
01:46:11,300 --> 01:46:13,900
All right I'm ready.
Got one leg over here.

1667
01:46:13,900 --> 01:46:18,200
What are by here?
A little TV.

1668
01:46:20,800 --> 01:46:25,200
Okay, so anyway, at the table to
say on starts in the medium you

1669
01:46:25,200 --> 01:46:29,400
know they enter this trance-like
state that's which allows them

1670
01:46:29,400 --> 01:46:31,500
to community to communicate with
the spirit work.

1671
01:46:32,700 --> 01:46:34,400
So they begin a channel, to
Spirit.

1672
01:46:35,000 --> 01:46:41,400
And for anybody who is confused
channeling, it's not possession.

1673
01:46:41,600 --> 01:46:46,400
Channeling is not possession.
Channeling is consensual.

1674
01:46:48,100 --> 01:46:51,500
As well as possession is not
consensual at all.

1675
01:46:52,300 --> 01:46:55,900
Absolutely, not consensual.
I don't even trust people to

1676
01:46:55,907 --> 01:46:57,200
wear a mask right now.
I

1677
01:47:14,900 --> 01:47:16,000
hate it.
I hate it.

1678
01:47:16,900 --> 01:47:20,100
Yeah, you know, yeah, like don't
touch me.

1679
01:47:20,100 --> 01:47:22,300
Don't, you don't have to, like,
put your hand in your ghostly

1680
01:47:22,300 --> 01:47:25,900
hand, on my shoulder just like,
hey, see him across the room and

1681
01:47:25,900 --> 01:47:29,900
just shout into this this way
when you do I want you to like

1682
01:47:29,900 --> 01:47:37,600
knock on the door like 27 times?
Yep, you know, and that is

1683
01:47:37,600 --> 01:47:43,300
actually like one of the tools
that mediums use to get Speers

1684
01:47:43,300 --> 01:47:47,400
the communicate with them.
Like getting to tap on to Tables

1685
01:47:47,400 --> 01:47:51,800
or like something a candle blows
out or some like, well-loved

1686
01:47:51,800 --> 01:47:53,700
channeling.
And the auto writing though.

1687
01:47:54,800 --> 01:48:01,200
Yes, alrighty.
I mean I guess it happens during

1688
01:48:01,200 --> 01:48:03,200
the channel lineup where they
know I'm writing.

1689
01:48:03,200 --> 01:48:04,800
The ghost is riding through my
hand.

1690
01:48:04,800 --> 01:48:07,300
Yep, you have to either taking
control of my hand.

1691
01:48:07,800 --> 01:48:09,100
Hmm.
Interesting.

1692
01:48:09,200 --> 01:48:13,200
I see okay and you know like the
medium, they ask them questions

1693
01:48:13,200 --> 01:48:19,100
and they answer them it.
It's Clip that goes from, I went

1694
01:48:19,100 --> 01:48:20,300
on.
It's like you ask them

1695
01:48:20,300 --> 01:48:21,900
questions.
Like they're different tools

1696
01:48:21,900 --> 01:48:26,500
that you use to get your goes to
speak to you either like a turn

1697
01:48:26,500 --> 01:48:32,000
off your mag light or you know
dislike goes off whenever they

1698
01:48:32,000 --> 01:48:35,100
want to communicate like yes or
no question.

1699
01:48:35,100 --> 01:48:38,200
If I worked at like one of those
locations and I pretend to be a

1700
01:48:38,200 --> 01:48:40,800
medium, every single person
would get a letter.

1701
01:48:40,800 --> 01:48:48,700
That just took like die die.
You're like, I don't know why.

1702
01:48:48,700 --> 01:48:50,000
I like I've been on this ghost
tour.

1703
01:48:50,000 --> 01:48:54,600
Like five different times
notices die.

1704
01:48:54,900 --> 01:49:03,300
Like they hate me.
Now, I realize I'm just gonna

1705
01:49:03,300 --> 01:49:09,900
like mess up.
Oh, yeah, definitely woman.

1706
01:49:09,900 --> 01:49:13,500
Owns this manner.
And she talked about murdering

1707
01:49:13,500 --> 01:49:19,400
ghost her entire life, and I'll
just be like in the corner like,

1708
01:49:19,400 --> 01:49:28,200
yelling, do the radio, you suck,
just fucking everything up.

1709
01:49:29,300 --> 01:49:38,900
Yeah, yeah stupid-ass bitch
singing singing rap songs is

1710
01:49:41,600 --> 01:49:46,100
like wait a second.
Is this EVP say I like big butts

1711
01:49:46,100 --> 01:49:50,900
and I cannot lie.
What is a wop?

1712
01:49:55,700 --> 01:49:58,700
They're like apparently the
ghosts that there's some hoses.

1713
01:49:58,900 --> 01:50:02,200
In this house, maybe we should
get out of this house.

1714
01:50:02,800 --> 01:50:06,100
Ha ha ha.
Oh my God.

1715
01:50:07,000 --> 01:50:10,000
The best part is like, in the
EVPs, like, they don't hear,

1716
01:50:10,000 --> 01:50:13,000
right?
And so like they'd be like, I

1717
01:50:13,008 --> 01:50:15,500
don't, I don't understand.
I can't understand what you

1718
01:50:15,500 --> 01:50:20,600
saying.
There's what in the house Shoes

1719
01:50:21,900 --> 01:50:24,500
shoes.
There's some shoes in this

1720
01:50:24,500 --> 01:50:26,900
house.
Oh my god.

1721
01:50:28,200 --> 01:50:33,300
Oh now some mediums.
Some mediums did get fancy with

1722
01:50:33,300 --> 01:50:37,600
it and they started producing
some something called ectoplasm.

1723
01:50:38,300 --> 01:50:42,400
Oh no.
Yeah and that those were fun

1724
01:50:42,400 --> 01:50:46,200
times when one what was it made
out of Brian.

1725
01:50:47,800 --> 01:50:53,900
Um, sometimes.
Well, if for a frauds, they were

1726
01:50:53,900 --> 01:50:56,500
found not to be like, made out
of cheese cloth and stuff like

1727
01:50:56,500 --> 01:51:02,500
that, like, she's cool.
Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, that

1728
01:51:02,500 --> 01:51:03,300
they.
Okay.

1729
01:51:03,300 --> 01:51:10,500
So when was I think it was like
when Houdini did the The contest

1730
01:51:10,500 --> 01:51:14,800
for like, like, stop me with
your spiritualism shit, right?

1731
01:51:14,800 --> 01:51:17,700
So he just like, scoop it up and
put it in his mouth.

1732
01:51:19,300 --> 01:51:22,100
No no, no.
They actually like head labs and

1733
01:51:22,100 --> 01:51:25,600
stuff like that would be okay.
Stuff on site.

1734
01:51:25,600 --> 01:51:33,100
Was he like yo this is some
cheesecloth cheesecloth.

1735
01:51:33,700 --> 01:51:38,800
I don't understand how okay, I
so yeah.

1736
01:51:40,400 --> 01:51:43,100
They would give like they would
give the median, not the

1737
01:51:43,100 --> 01:51:44,500
mediums.
They would give like Harry

1738
01:51:44,500 --> 01:51:48,500
Houdini and or Harry prize for
whoever like was like doing the

1739
01:51:50,700 --> 01:51:52,800
doing the investigation on them
they would give them like a

1740
01:51:52,808 --> 01:51:55,500
sample of this ectoplasm and
they go back to your lab and

1741
01:51:55,500 --> 01:51:59,600
test it and stuff like that.
And then like this is this is

1742
01:51:59,600 --> 01:52:05,900
she's cool so I Googled it.
Yeah ready for this and on the

1743
01:52:06,500 --> 01:52:09,900
listing someone has made a tiny
little go.

1744
01:52:10,900 --> 01:52:13,200
Out of the cheesecloth and he's
holding a sign.

1745
01:52:13,200 --> 01:52:19,100
That says, here's my thing.
Like I don't understand, this is

1746
01:52:19,100 --> 01:52:21,100
just fabric.
How is this ectoplasm?

1747
01:52:21,100 --> 01:52:23,100
I think of ectoplasm, I think of
Ghostbusters.

1748
01:52:23,200 --> 01:52:27,400
Well, who well, they would put
other things like you put things

1749
01:52:27,400 --> 01:52:30,200
in it.
Like the cheese cloth for cover

1750
01:52:30,200 --> 01:52:33,200
yellow eggs.
Whatever they could find.

1751
01:52:33,200 --> 01:52:35,500
That was slimy.
So like egg.

1752
01:52:35,500 --> 01:52:37,100
White is pretty slow.
Yeah.

1753
01:52:39,200 --> 01:52:41,800
So they would do stuff like that
cheese cloth.

1754
01:52:41,800 --> 01:52:46,600
I was like, she's focused even
gooey, you know it's just

1755
01:52:46,600 --> 01:52:48,500
something they could put in
something that you put stuff

1756
01:52:48,500 --> 01:52:53,600
inside of but yeah you did also
mention like automatic writing.

1757
01:52:54,800 --> 01:52:58,200
That's also something that
Spirit mediums use as well.

1758
01:52:58,600 --> 01:53:04,700
Oh yeah, that creeps me out.
yeah, so other than automatic

1759
01:53:04,700 --> 01:53:12,300
writing mediums mediums.
They have other tools they can

1760
01:53:12,300 --> 01:53:17,800
use to communicate with the
dead, okay?

1761
01:53:20,700 --> 01:53:25,300
And like automatic writing.
It's basically, you know, the

1762
01:53:25,300 --> 01:53:28,300
other parameter channeling the
spirit and it's either like

1763
01:53:28,300 --> 01:53:30,100
they're writing on a piece of
paper.

1764
01:53:31,500 --> 01:53:33,800
Like just for now.
Everybody in the league there.

1765
01:53:33,800 --> 01:53:35,600
Is there asking questions to the
spirit?

1766
01:53:35,600 --> 01:53:40,000
And that's basically yeah.
The spirit is control your hand.

1767
01:53:42,700 --> 01:53:47,400
Or there's this there's this
this cute little game that's

1768
01:53:47,400 --> 01:53:51,800
been out for, I don't know.
Like hundreds is like 100

1769
01:53:52,000 --> 01:53:54,500
concerts a year.
I think or something that's like

1770
01:53:54,500 --> 01:53:57,100
that.
I'll need a spear upward.

1771
01:53:57,400 --> 01:54:02,300
It's the talking, they Corner
talking board as well or as it's

1772
01:54:02,300 --> 01:54:05,500
more, commonly known Ouija
board.

1773
01:54:06,100 --> 01:54:10,600
Not a fan.
This is how they would get their

1774
01:54:10,600 --> 01:54:15,500
answers when they wanted to let
me talking to Spirits.

1775
01:54:16,400 --> 01:54:19,500
So if you don't know what a
Ouija board is a Ouija board,

1776
01:54:21,200 --> 01:54:25,800
it's a basically, first of all,
I'm shaking my head at you if

1777
01:54:25,800 --> 01:54:27,800
you don't know what a Ouija
board is.

1778
01:54:30,500 --> 01:54:32,400
But I'll also explain what it
is.

1779
01:54:33,700 --> 01:54:38,800
It's really like a flat board
and on it is written the

1780
01:54:38,800 --> 01:54:41,400
alphabet English.
Alphabet, I'm not sure if they,

1781
01:54:41,400 --> 01:54:43,400
I didn't, I should have looked
this up.

1782
01:54:43,700 --> 01:54:47,300
If they had like, we drew Ouija
boards for like, those are

1783
01:54:47,300 --> 01:54:49,800
countries and stuff like that.
I'm pretty sure other countries

1784
01:54:49,800 --> 01:54:52,300
are smart enough.
Not to use, like, Ouija boards,

1785
01:54:53,100 --> 01:54:55,700
or not to make something like
this to communicate with the

1786
01:54:55,700 --> 01:55:03,200
spirit were.
But here we are an So it has the

1787
01:55:03,200 --> 01:55:08,800
English alphabet A to Z on it
and then it also has numbers is

1788
01:55:08,800 --> 01:55:15,600
029 on it and in each of the
upper Corners it's a yes or no

1789
01:55:15,600 --> 01:55:18,700
and I think in the middle of the
top it says goodbye.

1790
01:55:19,500 --> 01:55:22,500
Yeah or at the bottom says
goodbye every.

1791
01:55:22,500 --> 01:55:27,000
Yeah the bottom says goodbye and
like like one side will say yes

1792
01:55:27,000 --> 01:55:29,000
the other side say no.
There's letters in the middle.

1793
01:55:29,100 --> 01:55:31,200
And numbers.
Yes, yes.

1794
01:55:33,900 --> 01:55:39,400
Then it also includes a I can
hold on the plant chat it

1795
01:55:39,400 --> 01:55:44,000
includes the planchette for you
to highlight the letters or

1796
01:55:44,000 --> 01:55:47,400
whatever.
Answer was yes or no or numbers.

1797
01:55:47,900 --> 01:55:52,500
So they have that.
Like I said it's also referred

1798
01:55:52,500 --> 01:55:58,600
to as a talking board I call it
the don't fuck with the board

1799
01:55:59,000 --> 01:56:02,400
myself because I don't fuck with
that board at all.

1800
01:56:05,600 --> 01:56:09,100
Since you never know like if
we're actually contacting a

1801
01:56:09,100 --> 01:56:16,200
human Spirit or possibly a demon
and just remember when you're

1802
01:56:16,200 --> 01:56:19,200
using a Ouija board just you
know say goodbye and if they

1803
01:56:19,200 --> 01:56:22,100
don't say goodbye back to and
say I said goodbye, so make sure

1804
01:56:22,100 --> 01:56:25,000
you say goodbye.
I don't know, like I shouldn't.

1805
01:56:25,100 --> 01:56:27,200
I also should have looked up
what happens when you say

1806
01:56:27,200 --> 01:56:32,300
goodbye it.
Ain't there like no, I think.

1807
01:56:36,100 --> 01:56:41,400
And talking to ghosts and stuff.
They?

1808
01:56:44,600 --> 01:56:48,500
You close the circle.
Yeah, it's kind of like if I'm

1809
01:56:48,500 --> 01:56:52,400
on the phone with you.
I'm I said, goodbye click

1810
01:56:53,400 --> 01:56:59,900
basically, if you can be honest.
Yeah you can be on the other end

1811
01:56:59,900 --> 01:57:02,800
but I've decided to like, stop
this, we're done here, is this

1812
01:57:02,800 --> 01:57:07,900
terminated sorry sir?
Well yeah, like Ouija boards.

1813
01:57:07,900 --> 01:57:12,300
They were popularly.
They were made Popular by Hasbro

1814
01:57:13,000 --> 01:57:16,600
and like they were supposed to
be like some type of like just

1815
01:57:16,600 --> 01:57:19,100
they were supposed to be just
like a basic like parlor trick

1816
01:57:19,100 --> 01:57:23,400
type of thing and then people
actually started taking it more

1817
01:57:23,400 --> 01:57:29,800
seriously and like Leaving that
to the cult and stuff like that.

1818
01:57:29,800 --> 01:57:35,300
And that's where you get the
best abdon by the satanic Panic.

1819
01:57:36,600 --> 01:57:39,900
The seventies know, you gotta
love that.

1820
01:57:39,900 --> 01:57:42,000
I love that era.
It's my favorite error.

1821
01:57:43,100 --> 01:57:45,900
Everything was the devil.
Everything was the devil's

1822
01:57:45,900 --> 01:57:47,500
fucking metal.
I loved it.

1823
01:57:50,500 --> 01:57:52,100
Oh my God.
But yeah.

1824
01:57:53,400 --> 01:57:59,100
It's a parlor trick but you know
something and I'll get into that

1825
01:57:59,100 --> 01:58:01,800
as well as her eyes talk about
this other thing.

1826
01:58:03,300 --> 01:58:06,900
So I I wrote down like Bloody
Mary and like handyman stuff

1827
01:58:06,900 --> 01:58:10,100
like that.
But I'm like, is that like, I

1828
01:58:10,108 --> 01:58:12,300
mean, it's like a slumber party
type of thing.

1829
01:58:12,300 --> 01:58:15,700
Is that more like a summoning
ritual for like, like, you're

1830
01:58:15,700 --> 01:58:19,400
trying to like summon somebody
instead of like trying to

1831
01:58:19,400 --> 01:58:21,400
communicate with them because
you're trying to like, yeah,

1832
01:58:21,400 --> 01:58:24,100
it's like those are not saying
Take situation.

1833
01:58:24,100 --> 01:58:32,800
Yeah.
But There is a game / challenge

1834
01:58:33,400 --> 01:58:35,200
that popped up, like six years
ago.

1835
01:58:35,800 --> 01:58:41,000
Do you remember the Charlie
Charlie challenge?

1836
01:58:41,600 --> 01:58:45,100
No.
Okay, yeah, wait.

1837
01:58:45,100 --> 01:58:48,100
Wasn't that like writer who said
there's that kid.

1838
01:58:48,100 --> 01:58:50,600
But he saw in his house and
sleeping.

1839
01:58:50,800 --> 01:58:53,800
He had asked the kid how he died
and I was the one rule.

1840
01:58:53,800 --> 01:58:56,800
You weren't supposed to ask,
he's like, taking pictures all

1841
01:58:56,800 --> 01:58:59,300
over his house and setting up
videos and things.

1842
01:58:59,900 --> 01:59:04,100
Is that the guy with chocolate
or possibly, possibly.

1843
01:59:04,100 --> 01:59:06,300
I think the kid might have been
named Charlie.

1844
01:59:06,300 --> 01:59:08,600
I don't know if they had another
was challenge associated with

1845
01:59:08,600 --> 01:59:10,800
this.
It was very good moment in

1846
01:59:10,800 --> 01:59:12,600
Creepypasta history.
Yes.

1847
01:59:12,600 --> 01:59:17,900
Yes, sir.
It was as well as with it Momo.

1848
01:59:17,900 --> 01:59:21,200
I love the Mosaic because it was
don't like the most thing.

1849
01:59:21,200 --> 01:59:23,900
It was just a really cool statue
and then they like tried to

1850
01:59:23,900 --> 01:59:25,200
scare kids.
Okay.

1851
01:59:25,300 --> 01:59:27,300
Yes.
That thing but then they had

1852
01:59:27,300 --> 01:59:30,600
like the Moment Like it Like
Moma was on WhatsApp.

1853
01:59:32,100 --> 01:59:34,100
That was just somebody being a
jerk.

1854
01:59:34,500 --> 01:59:39,600
Yeah but yet it was on WhatsApp
and like they would tell you

1855
01:59:39,600 --> 01:59:42,400
things and she liked that it was
just a weird thing to happen.

1856
01:59:44,400 --> 01:59:45,200
But no.
Okay.

1857
01:59:45,200 --> 01:59:50,700
So Charlie Charlie challenge at
its base based, basically

1858
01:59:50,700 --> 01:59:56,500
raising you get like a piece of
paper, right and on your right

1859
01:59:56,500 --> 02:00:00,200
it for time.
So let's get on a paper.

1860
02:00:00,200 --> 02:00:04,800
You write yes and no thing,
right?

1861
02:00:05,000 --> 02:00:10,400
No, yes, no, yes, I think and
that's how it was done.

1862
02:00:10,700 --> 02:00:17,400
And You get two pencils.
And you're like, just cross them

1863
02:00:17,400 --> 02:00:20,300
over each other.
Like we have one pencil

1864
02:00:20,300 --> 02:00:25,000
balancing over the Elder one and
whichever way that pencil went.

1865
02:00:25,100 --> 02:00:30,400
Was this Charlie person?
Answering your question.

1866
02:00:31,200 --> 02:00:37,500
And for some reason this was
believed to be a demon named

1867
02:00:37,500 --> 02:00:40,000
Charlie.
I'm not even sure why a demon

1868
02:00:40,000 --> 02:00:53,800
would be named Charlie but So,
this challenge actually

1869
02:00:53,800 --> 02:00:59,100
originated in I guess.
The Spanish-speaking countries

1870
02:01:01,500 --> 02:01:04,100
and it was very it was just
called a pencil game.

1871
02:01:04,800 --> 02:01:13,500
So it's like a Magic 8-Ball.
Yeah, so this High children.

1872
02:01:14,200 --> 02:01:24,200
Oh Hi, anyway.
Um so like people were

1873
02:01:24,200 --> 02:01:30,500
interested in it because it had
crossed language barriers, and

1874
02:01:30,500 --> 02:01:33,500
like, it was just like this,
this type of game just like

1875
02:01:33,500 --> 02:01:37,200
connected everybody together.
For like, I don't know for like

1876
02:01:37,200 --> 02:01:42,600
the few couple months that it
was popular on YouTube.

1877
02:01:45,000 --> 02:01:47,000
And best.
Because that's that's usually

1878
02:01:47,000 --> 02:01:49,400
that's where I first saw on
YouTube.

1879
02:01:49,400 --> 02:01:51,900
Was someone doing the Charlie
Charlie Challenge?

1880
02:01:51,900 --> 02:01:55,500
And they were saying Charlie,
Charlie blah, blah blah.

1881
02:01:55,500 --> 02:01:58,200
Something something, how'd you
die?

1882
02:01:58,200 --> 02:02:01,700
Or who's going to am I going to
die?

1883
02:02:01,900 --> 02:02:06,600
Yes, no, I get that.
The the the ritualistic aspect

1884
02:02:06,600 --> 02:02:09,200
of it is the writing on the
paper or whatnot, but it's like

1885
02:02:09,200 --> 02:02:11,400
that, like crosses over into
being like a tulpa.

1886
02:02:14,200 --> 02:02:16,700
Look enough people believe a
thing that becomes real.

1887
02:02:17,100 --> 02:02:18,000
Yeah.
Okay.

1888
02:02:18,100 --> 02:02:19,200
Okay.
Yes.

1889
02:02:19,600 --> 02:02:20,600
Yeah.
I feel like that kind of like,

1890
02:02:20,600 --> 02:02:25,400
Charlie becomes the the taupe of
they're not necessarily You

1891
02:02:25,400 --> 02:02:26,900
should do a whole episode on
that.

1892
02:02:26,900 --> 02:02:28,700
That's got some very
interesting.

1893
02:02:28,900 --> 02:02:32,500
It's from the list.
Yeah, that's right.

1894
02:02:32,500 --> 02:02:34,100
That's how I thought.
I feel like Bloody Mary and

1895
02:02:34,100 --> 02:02:35,900
Candyman.
Those are all cope with to.

1896
02:02:36,100 --> 02:02:37,700
Yeah.
Like millions of people were all

1897
02:02:37,700 --> 02:02:40,900
doing, you know, the flickering
light thing.

1898
02:02:40,900 --> 02:02:45,100
At the same time, a lot of
things could be topaz, but we

1899
02:02:45,100 --> 02:02:47,300
will talk about that on top of
the episode.

1900
02:02:47,800 --> 02:02:49,600
Awesome.
I think that's a really great.

1901
02:02:50,400 --> 02:02:55,200
Yes, paranormal Concepts.
I was doing research on that

1902
02:02:55,200 --> 02:02:57,800
actually the other day and I was
like, this is so much, just

1903
02:02:57,800 --> 02:03:02,400
there's so much goes into it.
I watched a movie on Hulu, like

1904
02:03:02,400 --> 02:03:05,900
a called hookah lives.
Oh, I love, I love that.

1905
02:03:05,900 --> 02:03:09,300
Yes.
And I was like so surprised when

1906
02:03:09,300 --> 02:03:12,300
they were like at the table and
I was like you're right, it is

1907
02:03:12,300 --> 02:03:15,600
there's a fucking tool only in
the movie it actually has

1908
02:03:15,600 --> 02:03:21,200
catastrophic You know
consequences.

1909
02:03:21,600 --> 02:03:23,800
You didn't watch the first puka
movie yet though.

1910
02:03:23,800 --> 02:03:26,000
The one?
Where the guy plays the actual

1911
02:03:26,000 --> 02:03:27,300
point?
Yeah yeah.

1912
02:03:27,300 --> 02:03:28,400
Yeah.
I saw that one.

1913
02:03:28,400 --> 02:03:30,300
I was like, oh this is kind of
fucked up.

1914
02:03:30,800 --> 02:03:33,600
I was looking for like, horror
Christmas movies.

1915
02:03:33,600 --> 02:03:40,400
Recently on break But yeah, it's
hopeless will get in the tour

1916
02:03:40,400 --> 02:03:46,200
bus.
So with games like the Charlie,

1917
02:03:46,200 --> 02:03:50,600
Charlie Challenge, and, and
Ouija board, there's this thing

1918
02:03:51,900 --> 02:03:57,000
that kind of explains how they
work, or how do I know you're

1919
02:03:57,000 --> 02:03:59,500
gonna talk about?
I forget how you say it, but I

1920
02:03:59,508 --> 02:04:03,600
know it is.
I'm going to try to pronounce

1921
02:04:03,600 --> 02:04:06,400
his Idol motor as an idol motor
phenomenon.

1922
02:04:07,000 --> 02:04:11,900
Yeah, yes.
So I had to Wiki this and see

1923
02:04:11,900 --> 02:04:13,700
what the fuck.
That meant anything.

1924
02:04:13,700 --> 02:04:16,400
Because for people who believe
in spiritual stuff, right?

1925
02:04:16,400 --> 02:04:18,800
Yeah.
I feel like the ritual aspects

1926
02:04:18,800 --> 02:04:23,000
of using these toys are more
important than like the, the

1927
02:04:23,000 --> 02:04:25,700
movement of the planchette and
that totally works with this

1928
02:04:25,700 --> 02:04:28,300
concept.
You know, she's that your

1929
02:04:28,300 --> 02:04:30,900
subconscious is moving.
Yep, that's basically.

1930
02:04:31,000 --> 02:04:37,500
It is your like, I guess it's
like you want an answer and you

1931
02:04:37,900 --> 02:04:41,100
yourself who's holding the
planchette or like the paper

1932
02:04:41,100 --> 02:04:44,000
like that paper have two pencils
are on balancing that you kind

1933
02:04:44,000 --> 02:04:49,100
of like breeze into that
direction or you like Make your

1934
02:04:49,100 --> 02:04:51,800
hand move into the.
I've read about this before and

1935
02:04:51,800 --> 02:04:55,200
like they say that like the more
people are together.

1936
02:04:55,800 --> 02:04:58,800
The more you feel like you have
less control.

1937
02:04:59,100 --> 02:05:01,100
Yes.
Yes, I can see that.

1938
02:05:01,100 --> 02:05:03,300
You're not doing it.
You think that you're not doing

1939
02:05:03,300 --> 02:05:05,000
and everybody thinks they're not
doing it?

1940
02:05:05,000 --> 02:05:06,800
And together, you're kind of all
collectively.

1941
02:05:06,800 --> 02:05:08,800
Hoping something happens.
Yep.

1942
02:05:09,200 --> 02:05:12,200
And it kind of make it happen.
And then you're like, who's

1943
02:05:12,200 --> 02:05:13,200
moving?
The planchette?

1944
02:05:13,200 --> 02:05:14,800
Are you moving it?
You're doing it.

1945
02:05:14,900 --> 02:05:17,500
And I'm like, no, I'm not going.
That's the funny part was doing

1946
02:05:17,500 --> 02:05:20,100
it.
All our people are moving it

1947
02:05:20,100 --> 02:05:23,300
that you don't realize it.
Yes, you're all moving it.

1948
02:05:23,700 --> 02:05:26,200
Yeah, for me though I feel like
they'll do virtual nature of

1949
02:05:26,200 --> 02:05:27,900
stuff.
Like I feel like repetitively

1950
02:05:27,900 --> 02:05:29,900
doing certain things over and
over again.

1951
02:05:30,100 --> 02:05:32,100
That's where I feel like there's
a lot of power.

1952
02:05:32,400 --> 02:05:35,800
Oh yeah absolutely.
Yeah you know you if you wake up

1953
02:05:35,800 --> 02:05:38,300
every day and you talk to
yourself in the mirror and you

1954
02:05:38,300 --> 02:05:41,100
tell yourself positive things
that that's a ritual and that

1955
02:05:41,100 --> 02:05:45,100
has power over you you are
meeting up consistently with the

1956
02:05:45,100 --> 02:05:47,500
same group of people and you're
all thinking about the same

1957
02:05:47,500 --> 02:05:49,500
stuff.
You're doing the same ritual

1958
02:05:49,500 --> 02:05:51,500
over and over again.
I feel like there's power in

1959
02:05:51,500 --> 02:05:55,900
that and it's not a good thing.
When you know you're sitting

1960
02:05:55,900 --> 02:05:59,800
here like we're going to be the
demon like okay if you're trying

1961
02:05:59,800 --> 02:06:03,500
to contact a demon no it's not a
good thing at all, created a

1962
02:06:03,500 --> 02:06:08,200
ritual now based around
something dark and I don't feel

1963
02:06:08,200 --> 02:06:10,700
like the board itself is
actually doing anything.

1964
02:06:10,900 --> 02:06:13,100
No, no, it's just like
something.

1965
02:06:13,100 --> 02:06:15,000
You should really.
I feel like the powers and the

1966
02:06:15,000 --> 02:06:17,800
people and their connection to
Spirit.

1967
02:06:18,000 --> 02:06:20,900
Quality and stuff like that.
Absolutely 100%.

1968
02:06:21,200 --> 02:06:24,600
That's yeah, I love that.
Yes.

1969
02:06:24,900 --> 02:06:29,600
Absolutely.
But yeah, I know, that was so

1970
02:06:29,600 --> 02:06:33,000
interesting like ages ago, I was
like there's a real physical

1971
02:06:33,000 --> 02:06:35,800
like you're like your body has
impulses.

1972
02:06:35,800 --> 02:06:39,500
Yeah.
Separate from your you knowing

1973
02:06:39,500 --> 02:06:43,900
that you're doing It's wow.
How cool is wrong?

1974
02:06:45,200 --> 02:06:51,500
so, I talked about the tools.
Of course, I want to talk about

1975
02:06:51,500 --> 02:06:55,700
people who've actually, I don't
know, use these tools, so, and I

1976
02:06:55,708 --> 02:06:58,800
can't talk about people who use
these tools when I'm talking

1977
02:06:58,800 --> 02:07:01,600
about people.
The two people who may have

1978
02:07:01,600 --> 02:07:06,100
actually started this, whole
fucking spiritualism stuff and

1979
02:07:06,100 --> 02:07:11,600
that's the fox sisters.
Yeah, it's a haven't Renee's

1980
02:07:11,600 --> 02:07:15,700
right now.
Of course we're gonna say is so

1981
02:07:15,700 --> 02:07:17,400
mad.
No.

1982
02:07:19,000 --> 02:07:22,900
I love will reign and I will not
stand for lowering slander.

1983
02:07:23,600 --> 02:07:28,900
No, no no, no slandering will
rain today, but they were both

1984
02:07:28,900 --> 02:07:31,700
teenagers.
Won't one was a teenager just

1985
02:07:31,700 --> 02:07:36,300
was like Prix team so Margaret
Fox and are they called her

1986
02:07:36,300 --> 02:07:39,700
Maggie?
And she was 15 and then Kate Fox

1987
02:07:39,800 --> 02:07:47,100
and she was 11.
So I have this story had to stir

1988
02:07:50,300 --> 02:07:51,800
goodness.
So yeah.

1989
02:07:52,100 --> 02:07:57,700
So, I guess this there's a story
behind how they started doing

1990
02:07:57,700 --> 02:08:00,500
their spoofs through medium
work.

1991
02:08:00,700 --> 02:08:09,500
And so Story Goes that For like
a week or so their household

1992
02:08:09,600 --> 02:08:13,200
with their parents and stuff.
They had just been experiencing

1993
02:08:13,200 --> 02:08:19,300
some random knocking and like a
lot of noises and bangs and

1994
02:08:19,300 --> 02:08:25,200
stuff like going on at night and
one night.

1995
02:08:26,100 --> 02:08:27,100
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.

1996
02:08:27,200 --> 02:08:31,800
One night Kate.
She's like, I want to talk to

1997
02:08:31,800 --> 02:08:34,500
this thing, whatever.
I'm going to just talk and see

1998
02:08:34,500 --> 02:08:42,000
if something answers me. and so
she begins asking questions, you

1999
02:08:42,000 --> 02:08:46,600
know, just random as questions
and seeing if the thing would

2000
02:08:46,600 --> 02:08:53,400
respond by knocking, she's like,
if you're like a person or a

2001
02:08:53,400 --> 02:08:58,600
man, if you're like a man knock
like Twice done.

2002
02:08:58,600 --> 02:09:04,100
Yeah like twice.
If you died as like if you were

2003
02:09:04,100 --> 02:09:07,100
murdered or something knock once
and stuff like that and then

2004
02:09:07,100 --> 02:09:10,000
like this thing would like knock
back for her.

2005
02:09:10,700 --> 02:09:18,800
And People in, you know, people
caught wind of this, in the

2006
02:09:18,800 --> 02:09:22,200
neighborhood, just like what's
the word?

2007
02:09:22,700 --> 02:09:26,600
Word is she just like here in
the knocks of her house?

2008
02:09:27,800 --> 02:09:34,000
No. - sister, I don't know,
because that would suck.

2009
02:09:34,200 --> 02:09:36,200
If your sister is like messing
you up.

2010
02:09:38,100 --> 02:09:40,200
It would suck those look so
much.

2011
02:09:42,600 --> 02:09:48,800
So so her popularity grew, of
course, people from the

2012
02:09:48,800 --> 02:09:51,700
neighborhood, heard about it.
They'd come over to her house to

2013
02:09:51,700 --> 02:09:54,800
hear these knockings.
And in here to say, knocking an

2014
02:09:54,800 --> 02:09:57,600
inch like answering her
questions with these knocks, it

2015
02:09:57,600 --> 02:10:00,600
were these noises.
And there's a soul like oh my

2016
02:10:00,600 --> 02:10:03,700
God.
Like you're you're fantastic.

2017
02:10:03,700 --> 02:10:05,800
You're a medium?
Oh my God, like they know what?

2018
02:10:06,200 --> 02:10:08,100
Obviously any homes.
Those media inspector?

2019
02:10:08,100 --> 02:10:09,600
I least.
I don't think so not in the

2020
02:10:09,608 --> 02:10:15,800
beginning.
But that they like Katie and I

2021
02:10:15,800 --> 02:10:19,900
don't know how Maggie got
involved in this, but Maggie

2022
02:10:20,800 --> 02:10:25,300
Maggie ended up, actually being
like the manager for Katie like

2023
02:10:25,700 --> 02:10:32,900
okay yeah, so They were so
popular.

2024
02:10:33,100 --> 02:10:35,600
I read this okay?
They were they were popular.

2025
02:10:35,600 --> 02:10:38,500
They were used in to seances.
Okay well to see it.

2026
02:10:38,500 --> 02:10:44,300
Two famous seances and they were
both done by Presidential women.

2027
02:10:44,300 --> 02:10:47,800
So first first the first lady's,
okay.

2028
02:10:50,000 --> 02:11:03,400
The first one was look it up.
Jane, Pierce, she had, she had

2029
02:11:03,400 --> 02:11:08,700
hired a fox sisters to hold a
seance at the White House.

2030
02:11:10,600 --> 02:11:16,600
And I think this was for, I
guess her going to get her sons

2031
02:11:17,300 --> 02:11:24,400
and she wanted to communicate
with them and and they she it

2032
02:11:24,400 --> 02:11:28,400
says that they didn't, she
didn't give people like what

2033
02:11:28,400 --> 02:11:31,800
happened.
She didn't give them, you know,

2034
02:11:32,500 --> 02:11:37,100
her reaction to their Seance or
whatnot because well for one it

2035
02:11:37,100 --> 02:11:39,900
was White House and it's
probably confidential what goes

2036
02:11:39,900 --> 02:11:45,700
on in the White House.
And to, this is another reason I

2037
02:11:45,708 --> 02:11:48,000
tell you that later.
But another person another woman

2038
02:11:48,200 --> 02:11:55,100
who Another first lady who hired
the fox sisters was Mary Todd

2039
02:11:55,100 --> 02:11:57,600
Lincoln.
Oh yeah.

2040
02:11:58,300 --> 02:12:07,500
She hired them to hold a seance.
I think, first it was for Not

2041
02:12:07,500 --> 02:12:12,300
not Abe.
It wasn't for a bat first, but I

2042
02:12:12,308 --> 02:12:15,500
think she had Sons as well, so
she's trying to contact her sons

2043
02:12:15,800 --> 02:12:20,400
and, and, and then she was
trying to contact a gene and

2044
02:12:20,400 --> 02:12:24,000
then.
Yeah, I was like, that's yeah,

2045
02:12:24,100 --> 02:12:33,200
yeah, that's sad.
But, um, She also would not

2046
02:12:33,500 --> 02:12:37,900
speak on it but on their Seance
but she was like, she wasn't

2047
02:12:37,900 --> 02:12:43,000
very impressed and you know,
stuff like that she wasn't very

2048
02:12:44,000 --> 02:12:49,900
so, okay.
I'll tell you why later on down

2049
02:12:49,900 --> 02:12:52,300
the line.
Like after you going to do these

2050
02:12:52,300 --> 02:12:56,400
two girls are, you know, you're
famous for being mediums and

2051
02:12:56,400 --> 02:13:00,900
stuff like that.
And Zay.

2052
02:13:03,200 --> 02:13:06,500
Want to, I think it's up Maggie,
Maggie comes out to the public

2053
02:13:06,500 --> 02:13:10,700
and she's like, hey guys, just
want to let you know, like she

2054
02:13:10,700 --> 02:13:13,900
just has her Her filming her,
YouTube apology video.

2055
02:13:15,000 --> 02:13:18,300
I just want to let you know that
me and my sister actually had

2056
02:13:18,300 --> 02:13:24,200
been faking this the whole time
and they're like well how'd you

2057
02:13:24,200 --> 02:13:27,100
do it?
And she's like well when Kate

2058
02:13:27,300 --> 02:13:30,800
was talking to people were there
like responding to these knocks.

2059
02:13:31,100 --> 02:13:34,800
I just be built like somewhere.
Library banging like apples on a

2060
02:13:34,800 --> 02:13:40,100
shoe strings and stuff like that
against the wall I said it, it

2061
02:13:40,100 --> 02:13:46,000
was her sister.
I didn't want to give you the

2062
02:13:46,000 --> 02:13:49,900
satisfaction.
I have it now sir.

2063
02:13:51,900 --> 02:13:54,000
I was right.
Right.

2064
02:13:54,600 --> 02:13:59,300
But yeah.
So you know, after after all of

2065
02:13:59,300 --> 02:14:01,800
these hearings is they had done
and stuff like that

2066
02:14:01,800 --> 02:14:06,500
communicating with people it was
just Maggie behind the wall.

2067
02:14:06,500 --> 02:14:10,000
Would apples and Kate just like
going along with it.

2068
02:14:10,000 --> 02:14:13,600
Now here's my thing.
Nobody went.

2069
02:14:13,700 --> 02:14:20,100
Yo, where's the other girl?
Why is she not here?

2070
02:14:20,200 --> 02:14:22,600
Oh my God.
Oh my God.

2071
02:14:22,600 --> 02:14:26,800
And and this is like, so some
people believe this and some

2072
02:14:26,800 --> 02:14:31,200
people are like no no, they were
like they were course to like

2073
02:14:31,200 --> 02:14:36,800
saying this because for one they
were alcoholics and he died of

2074
02:14:36,800 --> 02:14:42,700
alcoholism and people were like,
well, someone had bribed them

2075
02:14:42,700 --> 02:14:45,700
with alcohol to get them to say
this.

2076
02:14:46,200 --> 02:14:49,800
And that's like they The said
this stuff.

2077
02:14:52,300 --> 02:14:56,400
And I don't I mean I could see
that happening.

2078
02:14:56,400 --> 02:15:01,000
Someone like like what does what
you just told me today with this

2079
02:15:01,000 --> 02:15:04,100
horrible story?
You told me today, somebody

2080
02:15:04,100 --> 02:15:11,800
taking advantage of people in
their addictions and other

2081
02:15:11,800 --> 02:15:14,000
people.
Yeah.

2082
02:15:14,000 --> 02:15:17,600
Yeah.
It's it was terrible other

2083
02:15:17,600 --> 02:15:19,800
people were like, yeah, I guess
he is that.

2084
02:15:19,800 --> 02:15:24,600
Like I could see that they faked
it because they're two or two

2085
02:15:24,600 --> 02:15:28,200
girls, there, two teenagers and
they're just bored in the house.

2086
02:15:28,200 --> 02:15:33,200
And then the house board and
like, this is like Jeff.

2087
02:15:33,200 --> 02:15:35,900
Come on goose.
Like obviously that little girl

2088
02:15:35,900 --> 02:15:40,300
had just made up Jeff and was
just talking to Jeff the

2089
02:15:40,300 --> 02:15:43,800
Mongoose through the walls, her
little imaginary friend.

2090
02:15:43,800 --> 02:15:47,100
She is made up.
But yeah.

2091
02:15:50,200 --> 02:15:54,200
Also, I did want to touch on
this Houdini say I'm staying

2092
02:15:54,600 --> 02:16:00,900
which is still funny as fuck.
I love the fact that he know.

2093
02:16:02,000 --> 02:16:06,500
So apparently he didn't only
give his wife a password.

2094
02:16:06,500 --> 02:16:10,600
He gave like close friends to
him a password as well, like

2095
02:16:10,600 --> 02:16:15,600
different passwords for each
people and like nobody has

2096
02:16:15,600 --> 02:16:19,900
gotten the password at all.
None of these mediums Well, you

2097
02:16:19,900 --> 02:16:25,100
go and you have just like that's
that's that's why I like

2098
02:16:25,100 --> 02:16:28,000
nobody's real.
And it's like I think the last

2099
02:16:28,000 --> 02:16:31,900
one they did it last year.
There's one that it 2020

2100
02:16:31,900 --> 02:16:34,000
actually.
They didn't want to 2020 is

2101
02:16:34,000 --> 02:16:37,299
virtual it.
A virtual Seance was for

2102
02:16:37,299 --> 02:16:40,600
Houdini.
Oh my God.

2103
02:16:40,900 --> 02:16:44,400
Yeah.
Um, what else, what else?

2104
02:16:44,400 --> 02:16:47,900
I also want to touch on like
other frauds, like, I don't

2105
02:16:47,900 --> 02:16:50,600
know, like, John Edwards and
Sylvia Browne.

2106
02:16:50,600 --> 02:16:56,200
How they, what they do is
they'll be a brown is the one

2107
02:16:56,200 --> 02:17:01,299
who Said that the girls who were
out of what's this mean

2108
02:17:01,299 --> 02:17:03,400
Castillo.
Yeah, that guy.

2109
02:17:03,400 --> 02:17:06,299
Yeah, that.
Yep, that they were dead girls

2110
02:17:06,299 --> 02:17:08,500
that were dead.
Yes, because I remember the one

2111
02:17:08,500 --> 02:17:11,600
girl said she was watching the
episode.

2112
02:17:12,200 --> 02:17:15,700
That's where Sylvia Browne said
to her mom.

2113
02:17:15,700 --> 02:17:17,500
Your daughter's already dead.
Yeah.

2114
02:17:17,500 --> 02:17:20,700
And just, wow.
This is wild.

2115
02:17:20,900 --> 02:17:22,900
That was her biggest fail.
A little time.

2116
02:17:22,900 --> 02:17:25,500
That ended her career.
I feel like you're a member.

2117
02:17:25,500 --> 02:17:28,500
I think you're right, because
she used to be on So shows and

2118
02:17:28,500 --> 02:17:29,799
everything too.
She's everywhere.

2119
02:17:29,799 --> 02:17:31,799
She's always on the month, he'll
show.

2120
02:17:31,799 --> 02:17:36,100
Yes, I mean, all those guys.
All they do is just cold reader

2121
02:17:36,100 --> 02:17:37,299
are.
That's all you do.

2122
02:17:37,400 --> 02:17:40,799
That's all you do.
And that's when those are, I'm

2123
02:17:40,799 --> 02:17:43,900
like, in a room, full of, like,
200 people.

2124
02:17:45,000 --> 02:17:48,500
Someone's experience a lot.
Yeah, it's starting with the

2125
02:17:48,500 --> 02:17:52,500
letter j.
There's got to be a lot of

2126
02:17:52,500 --> 02:17:55,000
people who've experienced a
loss, and it starts the letter

2127
02:17:55,000 --> 02:17:57,100
j.
I'd say, yeah.

2128
02:17:57,100 --> 02:18:00,500
And then the person will be
like, oh yeah, well my grandma's

2129
02:18:00,500 --> 02:18:04,000
little name is Janet or they
were Dave, look around the room

2130
02:18:04,000 --> 02:18:06,700
and see did it.
Yeah, it's Janet.

2131
02:18:06,700 --> 02:18:10,100
I can, I can feel a Jedi, feel a
strong attraction to you.

2132
02:18:10,200 --> 02:18:14,000
For some reason, this Janet I
saw a great one online.

2133
02:18:14,400 --> 02:18:19,700
We're like the guys like pulled
up the idea that like whoever

2134
02:18:19,700 --> 02:18:22,799
they were talking to was like
cursing at them and the lady was

2135
02:18:22,799 --> 02:18:25,200
like, that's definitely on my
grandpa, she's like listen.

2136
02:18:25,500 --> 02:18:26,200
Oh, right.
Yeah.

2137
02:18:26,400 --> 02:18:28,900
She was alive.
She wasn't honest with you.

2138
02:18:28,900 --> 02:18:32,799
But right now she's saying some
stuff and I was like, bra, gasps

2139
02:18:32,799 --> 02:18:37,400
lightly me better, yes, to
Gaslight the person is say that

2140
02:18:37,400 --> 02:18:41,100
Grandma is calling people names
or you just go.

2141
02:18:41,100 --> 02:18:42,700
You know what, maybe it's not
your grandma.

2142
02:18:42,700 --> 02:18:45,799
Maybe it's somebody else.
Grandma's not angry right now

2143
02:18:46,100 --> 02:18:49,100
like to go there, just to go
that direction.

2144
02:18:49,200 --> 02:18:53,400
Wow, yeah, sometimes mediums are
just fucking scum.

2145
02:18:54,700 --> 02:18:55,799
Yeah, that's what I think this
is.

2146
02:18:56,600 --> 02:18:59,700
I think John Oliver covered it
like a couple years ago and very

2147
02:18:59,700 --> 02:19:03,500
good episode.
You did about, you know, just

2148
02:19:03,500 --> 02:19:05,600
scamming for people out of my
way sucks.

2149
02:19:05,700 --> 02:19:11,900
Yeah, that's all I'm going to
talk about today or mediums are

2150
02:19:11,900 --> 02:19:17,900
or seances actually, but yeah.
That's where I got.

2151
02:19:18,600 --> 02:19:21,200
Hope you guys enjoy.
Thanks so much for being part of

2152
02:19:21,200 --> 02:19:22,900
art.
Well, this, if you're watching

2153
02:19:22,900 --> 02:19:25,299
good luck, because I got hot.
I took off my hat.

2154
02:19:25,299 --> 02:19:28,799
I put it back on, like, I'm over
here being crazy for getting

2155
02:19:28,799 --> 02:19:33,000
them on camera.
I also forgot for a second, my

2156
02:19:33,000 --> 02:19:35,400
facial expressions.
I hope you guys enjoy those

2157
02:19:35,400 --> 02:19:37,400
facial expressions but I hope.
Yeah.

2158
02:19:37,400 --> 02:19:40,299
Yeah, if you're still listening
thank you so much for listening.

2159
02:19:40,299 --> 02:19:42,600
Like roughly like 5,000 people
last year.

2160
02:19:42,600 --> 02:19:45,500
Consistently listen, all year
long, that's incredible.

2161
02:19:48,500 --> 02:19:51,700
The merchants out.
We got our thick today is the

2162
02:19:51,700 --> 02:19:54,700
Booty Man of West, Virginia
shirts.

2163
02:19:54,700 --> 02:19:59,500
And hoodies out today.
The hoodies we got, we got

2164
02:19:59,500 --> 02:20:03,500
beanies, you got mugs, you got
t-shirts and everything, except

2165
02:20:03,500 --> 02:20:06,900
for underwear.
It's give us a mineral that I

2166
02:20:06,908 --> 02:20:12,100
don't know about that.
It's so great to be back in the

2167
02:20:12,100 --> 02:20:15,600
saddle and telling you all the
stories about how they got

2168
02:20:15,900 --> 02:20:19,100
caught.
And And also you know having fun

2169
02:20:19,100 --> 02:20:20,300
with Brian.
I missed.

2170
02:20:20,300 --> 02:20:22,500
It was only a couple weeks.
We were gone but I missed it.

2171
02:20:22,600 --> 02:20:26,000
Yeah, same same, it's good.
It is good to be back but I got

2172
02:20:26,000 --> 02:20:28,100
a nice A little Second Wind
here.

2173
02:20:28,200 --> 02:20:29,700
Yeah thank you so much for
listening.

2174
02:20:30,300 --> 02:20:34,600
We love our.
I couldn't be happier.

2175
02:20:34,600 --> 02:20:37,000
Like I said, one thing I said
I'm picked up yesterday I was

2176
02:20:37,000 --> 02:20:41,700
like 20 21 was the best year of
my life so I was like there's

2177
02:20:41,700 --> 02:20:44,300
even more work to do but I could
be happy to do it.

2178
02:20:44,700 --> 02:20:50,200
Absolutely I feel the same good
night.